Do we want our Superheroines to be dumb?

General discussions about superheroines!
Dazzle1
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Do we want our Superheroines to be dumb?

Post by Dazzle1 »

In addition to getting overpowered by fat out of shape guys in ski masks, I also don't like when they make it too easy

1. Scenario one_Superheroine confronts villians or villianess and make some typical statement in heroic pose and allows the oponent to draw a weapon and use it. Makes no attempt to defend.

2. Scenario 2, Superheroine walks into lair and make no attempt to see if someone is hiding and pays no attention

thoughts?
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DonShip
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Re: Do we want our Superheroines to be dumb?

Post by DonShip »

Yeah, I agree. Super heroine videos scenarios are pretty dumb, but I assume it is for cost cutting. The videos are short, so need to get to the action quickly. And by action I mean capture and sex. If they were full length movies there would be time to show heroines are competent, but make mistakes and pay for them.
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Re: Do we want our Superheroines to be dumb?

Post by mikeecho »

we dont want them 'dumb' as that makes them more like typical bubbleheads or pleasure toys that cant think, I long to see a good superheroine show that has a smart Heroine maybe overconfident but no I dont want dumb
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Re: Do we want our Superheroines to be dumb?

Post by Dazzle1 »

mikeecho wrote: 3 months ago we dont want them 'dumb' as that makes them more like typical bubbleheads or pleasure toys that cant think, I long to see a good superheroine show that has a smart Heroine maybe overconfident but no I dont want dumb
When I am thinking of dumb: Electra Woman or Black Scorpion comes to mind
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Re: Do we want our Superheroines to be dumb?

Post by IMSancho »

Not dumb, but having “blind spots” or an overconfidence.

Maybe book smart but not street smart.
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Re: Do we want our Superheroines to be dumb?

Post by Visitor »

Elrctra Woman as a version of Batman in the 1960s TV show was smart enough to figure out the villain's clues to get lured into a trap and then figure a way out. Although the show relied more on luck than skill with the escapes.

Most shows no longer have time for the build up where the super hero gets a clue on the up coming crime. You pretty much just jump to the action. There's rarely any attempt to show intelligence.
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Re: Do we want our Superheroines to be dumb?

Post by Dazzle1 »

Visitor wrote: 3 months ago Elrctra Woman as a version of Batman in the 1960s TV show was smart enough to figure out the villain's clues to get lured into a trap and then figure a way out. Although the show relied more on luck than skill with the escapes.

Most shows no longer have time for the build up where the super hero gets a clue on the up coming crime. You pretty much just jump to the action. There's rarely any attempt to show intelligence.
Electra Woman was dumber than Aunt Harriet
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joejanus
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Re: Do we want our Superheroines to be dumb?

Post by joejanus »

2. Scenario 2, Superheroine walks into lair and make no attempt to see if someone is hiding and pays no attention
One of my pet peeves on SHIP vids is kind of the opposite. If they suspect an ambush or trap, the heroines usually slither along the walls like they're trying to blend in instead of the typical cop show style of guns drawn as they turn every corner. Maybe some folks like the "slithering along the wall like I expect to be captured any moment" schtick, or alternately the not having any situational awareness and letting the villain creep up for 20 seconds to chloroform her from behind.
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Re: Do we want our Superheroines to be dumb?

Post by sneakly »

I think the problem is you have a universe with rules. One rule is the heroine wears incredibly impractical outfits and fights crime in them. The bad guys have weird rules too. Capture the heroine but don't use a gun and having forced sex with them will not draw any significant penalties or consequences to the perp or the victim. very few producers can do any of this on a shoe string budget and make it look good. Bondagecafe, CC, Giga and Kink.com have all figured it out to a degree. But getting lighting and sets that help build the universe cost money and time and it gets compounded by the fantastical settings that would help create the right environment for the suspension of disbelief.

The economics of it are prohibitive. It Ed Wood film making 101 (I don't mean it in a disparaging way, but compelling drama is hard to accomplish in a motel room). Realistically I realize that many of my stories will be skimmed to get to the "good parts"
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Re: Do we want our Superheroines to be dumb?

Post by MaryAnn »

Some did mention the number one aspect, money!

Then the time to built a scenario, weeks, months...

If you want to make something really good, you need good costumes, traps, furnitures, backgrounds... Then the time to buy or built everything and the cost of it, money!

Then you need more than two characters, money!
Then to hire the models and built a schedule so the modela you need for a scene can be free at the same time!
Lights, cameras and one or more folks to help you, money!

When the shooting is done, you need lots of time for editing. Most of the producers don't live only with superheroines productions. They have other jobs, trying to find time for this project and get back to it after days or weeks is not easy!

Don't forget we live in a changing world, everything goes fast and most of the fans of this genre want things fast. So the producers are probably looking at making things fast and economic, money!

As for me, I pay for what I love and for things I don't like, well, some will love them. We have personal taste and it's fine with me. Just my two cents!
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Re: Do we want our Superheroines to be dumb?

Post by Dazzle1 »

MaryAnn wrote: 3 months ago Some did mention the number one aspect, money!

Then the time to built a scenario, weeks, months...

If you want to make something really good, you need good costumes, traps, furnitures, backgrounds... Then the time to buy or built everything and the cost of it, money!

Then you need more than two characters, money!
Then to hire the models and built a schedule so the modela you need for a scene can be free at the same time!
Lights, cameras and one or more folks to help you, money!

When the shooting is done, you need lots of time for editing. Most of the producers don't live only with superheroines productions. They have other jobs, trying to find time for this project and get back to it after days or weeks is not easy!

Don't forget we live in a changing world, everything goes fast and most of the fans of this genre want things fast. So the producers are probably looking at making things fast and economic, money!

As for me, I pay for what I love and for things I don't like, well, some will love them. We have personal taste and it's fine with me. Just my two cents!
Its like anything else do you pay for quality over qtr.

I'd rather pay for 1 great Christina Carter, Kendra James etc, than 5 cheap formulatic ones
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Re: Do we want our Superheroines to be dumb?

Post by sneakly »

Dazzle1 wrote: 3 months ago
MaryAnn wrote: 3 months ago Some did mention the number one aspect, money!

Then the time to built a scenario, weeks, months...

If you want to make something really good, you need good costumes, traps, furnitures, backgrounds... Then the time to buy or built everything and the cost of it, money!

Then you need more than two characters, money!
Then to hire the models and built a schedule so the modela you need for a scene can be free at the same time!
Lights, cameras and one or more folks to help you, money!

When the shooting is done, you need lots of time for editing. Most of the producers don't live only with superheroines productions. They have other jobs, trying to find time for this project and get back to it after days or weeks is not easy!

Don't forget we live in a changing world, everything goes fast and most of the fans of this genre want things fast. So the producers are probably looking at making things fast and economic, money!

As for me, I pay for what I love and for things I don't like, well, some will love them. We have personal taste and it's fine with me. Just my two cents!
Its like anything else do you pay for quality over qtr.

I'd rather pay for 1 great Christina Carter, Kendra James etc, than 5 cheap formulatic ones
You get that if you don’t buy the sucky ones. Hollywood makes hundreds of movies a year and dozens of them you will never see, because they end up in foreign markets with low standards and third string cable markets. The cost of making a movie have gone way down with modern video. No film, great editing tools, filters and effects. Physical Resources for sets and costumes have not gotten as in expensive. A batgirl cowel that properly fits the actress still costs money. A set that doesn’t look like a rented storage Locker costs money.

The two most scarce resources are time and talent. A model that can act as well as CC or DK aren’t that common. Nor is. A producer that can write a vaguely interesting plot and dialog that can be produced in a day or two of shooting. Compare the original o-girl with perils of Batgirl. There was a lot of time for Jim Weathers to learn between them and it shows. Hair, makeup, costumes sets, scripts, sets, crews. Pulling all those elements together is a lot of learning.

It takes a lot of Ed Woods to make on Roger Corman and a lot of Roger Corman to make one Spielberg
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Dazzle1
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Re: Do we want our Superheroines to be dumb?

Post by Dazzle1 »

joejanus wrote: 3 months ago
2. Scenario 2, Superheroine walks into lair and make no attempt to see if someone is hiding and pays no attention
One of my pet peeves on SHIP vids is kind of the opposite. If they suspect an ambush or trap, the heroines usually slither along the walls like they're trying to blend in instead of the typical cop show style of guns drawn as they turn every corner. Maybe some folks like the "slithering along the wall like I expect to be captured any moment" schtick, or alternately the not having any situational awareness and letting the villain creep up for 20 seconds to chloroform her from behind.
Agree with you their superheroines should not slither, villains slither
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Re: Do we want our Superheroines to be dumb?

Post by ThatOnePervert »

I think there are a couple of different levels to approach this from. People more qualified than me have brought up the production side of things so I'll touch on other points.

My first thought goes to something I heard recently regarding the actions of characters in horror stories. "Your characters don't know what genre of story they're in."

Supergirl doesn't know she's in a story written by some horny perv who wants to see her weakened and fondled. As far as she knows she's one of the strongest beings on the planet so if she walks in confident and tries to talk down her enemy instead of just crashing in at full speed and blasting the bad guy into dust it's understandable. Most guns in the world wouldn't even tickle her so if she doesn't bother to dodge my kryptonite ray or orgasmo gun, well who could blame her?

As to general intelligence I think it depends on the character and what you want out of the story. I generally like my heroines smart enough for the rebound. Will they walk into a trap or underestimate an enemy on first contact, sure, but given enough time they should be able to think of a counter to turn things around in their favor. But I'm a guy who prefers good endings for the most part, or at the very least, stories that don't end in heroine death or bloody brutality. Now if you want your heroine to meet a grizzly end then her overconfidence or lack of intelligence can be the fatal flaw that gets her to that conclusion.

There's also time constraints. With stories and videos meant to titillate you have to get to that titillation fast or people will seek another source. Having a heroine take every common sense or genre savvy step takes time and you can lose viewer/reader attention in a minute.
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Re: Do we want our Superheroines to be dumb?

Post by CIA »

We don’t want them to be dumb; they just are. :giggle:
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Re: Do we want our Superheroines to be dumb?

Post by DrDominator9 »

It's such a luxury to be able to write heroines who are intelligent but overconfident. With the room to explore heroine thoughts through dialogue (an excellent way to convey intelligence or stupidity in one line, btw!) and actions and interior monologues. Sadly, video is too expensive to allow for such explorations. But, as I said, dialogue is a great shortcut to get to the heart of a heroine, especially in a video.
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Re: Do we want our Superheroines to be dumb?

Post by PartsUnknown »

I like heroines to have a fatal flaw.

Maybe they’re just dumb meatheads who’ve never had to use their brains because of their strength.

Maybe they were hired by a government organization or a corporation that just uses them more as symbols, and they actually suck at crimefighting

Maybe they’re naive because they’re such sheltered do-gooders that they can’t even consider what a typical villain is willing to do.

Or they’re just new and not confident yet.

They could be full of themselves, overestimating their abilities and putting themselves in more danger than necessary, and ignoring authority.

Another fun scenario is when the villains discover their identity and threaten their families, so they have to let the villains get away with it and can’t say anything.
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Re: Do we want our Superheroines to be dumb?

Post by Mr. X »

... as a box of rocks.
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Re: Do we want our Superheroines to be dumb?

Post by Heroine Addict »

Dazzle1 wrote: 3 months ago
mikeecho wrote: 3 months ago we dont want them 'dumb' as that makes them more like typical bubbleheads or pleasure toys that cant think, I long to see a good superheroine show that has a smart Heroine maybe overconfident but no I dont want dumb
When I am thinking of dumb: Electra Woman or Black Scorpion comes to mind
Good nature is a good fatal flaw to have. Like the Black Scorpion episode where she kneels down to help an 'injured' woman who turns out to be a villain's sidekick who pulls off Black Scorpion's mask.

From the heroine's perspective, the possibility of a citizen genuinely needing help outweighs any consideration of it being a trap.
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Re: Do we want our Superheroines to be dumb?

Post by SnidelyW »

When I make Superheroine in Peril customs, I always write the heroines as fairly smart and funny, but with a fatal flaw that gets them in trouble. Weirdly, I need to like and feel sorry for the heroine, so whenever I have control over the story I make them people I would like. (For reference, I made Kill Craig and Super Exes at The Battle for Earth, and Closed Set at Lucia which is way different from the other two.)
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Re: Do we want our Superheroines to be dumb?

Post by Maskripper »

No
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Re: Do we want our Superheroines to be dumb?

Post by argento »

I don't like the gore at all and the portrayal of the female character as unintelligent. However, I appreciate the exploration of Stockholm syndrome and the mutual enjoyment between the heroine and the villain. It is important to maintain a level of difficulty in the fight between the heroine and the villain, as well as the dreamy scenarios typical of HARMONY movies.
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Re: Do we want our Superheroines to be dumb?

Post by MainGuy »

Just the opposite. I want my heroines to be smart and clever and I want their defeats to result from overconfidence or just plain being outnumbered or overpowered.
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Re: Do we want our Superheroines to be dumb?

Post by sneakly »

When I write a female character I try to make them compassionate and personable with in the context of the story. If I sit down and try to rationalize why they did or didn't see something coming, of course they look dumb. Just the same, why not just shoot Batman? I am writing a fantasy. That she goes out in Fuck-me boots alone to fight crime makes no sense. I don't have to write her as an idiot, I am writing her to function with the confines of a fake universe. I get to choose just how clever she is at any given moment and can turn a blind eye to a plot point like whether a criminal would just shoot her or does the universe require some sort of horrific sexual demise. Why on Earth would forced repeated orgasms be a reasonably method of interrogation or torture?

Joker invents streamers that tangle up the hero or Catwoman invents a mind altering drug and she isn't talking to lawyers about the patent? Cat's whiskers are probably a mind blowing product. Stronger than steel and contract to a fraction of their size with a small change in temperature? Joker built a flying saucer, for Christ's sake.

I like smart girls. But heroines have to be smart only in the context of the Universe in which they live. Who would want an O-girl that simply calls for police back up before barging in on Felina Minx? No fun at all. I want her smart enough to figure out the clue that puts in trouble and smart enough to escape before she gets sliced up the middle.
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