Full DC Extended Universe Reboot?

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DrDominator9
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Full DC Extended Universe Reboot?

Post by DrDominator9 »

With the official post by Henry Cavill that James Gunn and others have decided to move on from him playing Superman, it looks like the whole DCEU will be rebooted. Of course it is going to be pretty messy if they are still going to release the Flash movie in 2023 not to mention what they do with Gal Gadot as WW now that Patty Jenkins has left the WW cinematic team.

Seems like they're going to reboot to a whole new younger crop of actors. Early 20s in age perhaps?

I'm not sure the powers that be at DC and Warner Brothers and whatever other corporate entity that's steering the ship these days are capable of delivering sustained quality across a decade of films but we shall see.

Thoughts, people?
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Re: Full DC Extended Universe Reboot?

Post by Visitor »

WCD will reboot the movies except where they are already got profitable sequels like the Joker and Shazam franchises. Rather than use the multiverse to allow multiple Batmans and other variants, they can start over with cheaper actors. I really would have like to see the Batman Beyond movie with Michael Keaton that got cancelled.

Kind of wait and see what happens since they have decent people in charge, but the higher ups can still micromanage it into another disaster.
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Re: Full DC Extended Universe Reboot?

Post by Ernie »

The massive success of Superhero movies over the last 15 years or so has had numerous unintended consequences. Money for non-superhero films is harder to find, actors and directors uninterested in the genre have suffered and the franchises have become too big to fail. Most of this is bad for the film industry. Let's face it, many of the superhero films are shamelessly formulaic, special effects laden bores. So yeah, the DCEU is investing a lot of planning in the next ten years of likely boring, likely effects driven reboot garbage that will cost billions of dollars. Whoopee. At least we got two actual Wonder Woman films out of it. One a pretty good film, and the other containing some decent peril. I have diminishing hopes for the next decade.
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Re: Full DC Extended Universe Reboot?

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Re: Full DC Extended Universe Reboot?

Post by DonShip »

I wouldn't be averse to new, younger actors taking over these iconic roles. I see all super heroines are being in their twenties. But that's just me.

My fear is they'll make them all "woke" and politically correct. I have very little hope it won't go that way.
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Re: Full DC Extended Universe Reboot?

Post by Dazzle1 »

What they need to do is hire someone from the MCU team.

D.C heroes are far more interesting at least too me.
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Re: Full DC Extended Universe Reboot?

Post by swampy170 »

Dazzle1 wrote: 1 year ago What they need to do is hire someone from the MCU team.

D.C heroes are far more interesting at least too me.
They literally did exactly that - James Gunn is one of the two producers calling the shots.
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Re: Full DC Extended Universe Reboot?

Post by batgirl1969 »

I will just stick to the porn parodies, they are usually better anyway and more of them
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Re: Full DC Extended Universe Reboot?

Post by DrDominator9 »

batgirl1969 wrote: 1 year ago I will just stick to the porn parodies, they are usually better anyway and more of them
Will you watch The Flash movie for your girl Supergirl or will you skip since she's not a blonde? Inquiring minds need to know!
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Re: Full DC Extended Universe Reboot?

Post by Dazzle1 »

batgirl1969 wrote: 1 year ago I will just stick to the porn parodies, they are usually better anyway and more of them
Especially with what we would want Cheetah to do Wonder Woman as opposed to what Patty Jenkins thought of
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Re: Full DC Extended Universe Reboot?

Post by Mr. X »

Probably will get the John Kent Superman and young Batman. Not sure why Cavil is out given he's not old and has the role established and he did the appearance in Black Adam. Maybe these producers are tired of throwing mud at the wall to see what sticks.

Another theory is these studios see the tides are turning and want to wait to see what audience falls out in a year.
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Re: Full DC Extended Universe Reboot?

Post by bushwackerbob »

Mr. X wrote: 1 year ago Probably will get the John Kent Superman and young Batman. Not sure why Cavil is out given he's not old and has the role established and he did the appearance in Black Adam. Maybe these producers are tired of throwing mud at the wall to see what sticks.

Another theory is these studios see the tides are turning and want to wait to see what audience falls out in a year.
Henry Cavil is 39, and I think if DC Comics wants to chart a new course and a new franchise reboot for Superman, you probably don't want someone approaching 40. Christopher Reeve was 26 when Superman came out in 1978.
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Re: Full DC Extended Universe Reboot?

Post by Danorian »

DrDominator9 wrote: 1 year ago
batgirl1969 wrote: 1 year ago I will just stick to the porn parodies, they are usually better anyway and more of them
Will you watch The Flash movie for your girl Supergirl or will you skip since she's not a blonde? Inquiring minds need to know!
I won't as she isn't MY Supergirl. This one is supposed to be the daughter of Superman and Lois Lane in an alternate reality, ie parallel Earth. Sorta like when DC experimented with Cir-El a decade ago. Avoided her like the plague! Honestly, I nicknamed her Cirrhosis! :giggle:

My 2 cents.
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Re: Full DC Extended Universe Reboot?

Post by sneakly »

Please god… no more origin stories. Batman wears a cape… Superman is from Krypton… I don’t need to know where they came from, just get me some decent adventures…
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Re: Full DC Extended Universe Reboot?

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DrDominator9 wrote: 1 year ago
batgirl1969 wrote: 1 year ago I will just stick to the porn parodies, they are usually better anyway and more of them
Will you watch The Flash movie for your girl Supergirl or will you skip since she's not a blonde? Inquiring minds need to know!
If I watch it WONT be for that terrible Supergirl!!! No blonde no dice!!!
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Re: Full DC Extended Universe Reboot?

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bushwackerbob wrote: 1 year ago
Mr. X wrote: 1 year ago Probably will get the John Kent Superman and young Batman. Not sure why Cavil is out given he's not old and has the role established and he did the appearance in Black Adam. Maybe these producers are tired of throwing mud at the wall to see what sticks.

Another theory is these studios see the tides are turning and want to wait to see what audience falls out in a year.
Henry Cavil is 39, and I think if DC Comics wants to chart a new course and a new franchise reboot for Superman, you probably don't want someone approaching 40. Christopher Reeve was 26 when Superman came out in 1978.
The Rock is closing on 60. Men age a bit different
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Re: Full DC Extended Universe Reboot?

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Daniel Craig is now 54 and was only a little younger when he did his last James Bond movie. I'm sure he did more action than Superman or Batman will do.

It's more that he is too old for the script idea that Gunn is writing back when Clark Kent was starting out at the Daily Planet. So basically another origin story type movie with hopefully no Krypton and growing up on the farm.
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Re: Full DC Extended Universe Reboot?

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Mr. X wrote: 1 year ago The Rock is closing on 60. Men age a bit different
Actually, he's 50, but also in exceptionally good shape compared to most other people alive.

While all of this DCEU nonsense is swirling about, hopefully we can take comfort in a few good live-action TV series on HBO
such as the Titans show, which has been quite good overall. Who exactly has supervision over the TV aspect of the DC universe -
is it also Gunn & Safran now, or is it someone else?
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Re: Full DC Extended Universe Reboot?

Post by brdiy »

shevek wrote: 1 year ago
Mr. X wrote: 1 year ago The Rock is closing on 60. Men age a bit different
Actually, he's 50, but also in exceptionally good shape compared to most other people alive.

While all of this DCEU nonsense is swirling about, hopefully we can take comfort in a few good live-action TV series on HBO
such as the Titans show, which has been quite good overall. Who exactly has supervision over the TV aspect of the DC universe -
is it also Gunn & Safran now, or is it someone else?
From what I've read, Peter Gunn is looking at consistency across Movies, TV and even gaming, so I wouldn't be surprised if this would be the last season of the Titans...
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Re: Full DC Extended Universe Reboot?

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This really sucks, especially since it was widely held that Cavill left The Witcher to do the new Superman or whatever for DC, so I can now also blame DC for ruining another good show not directly related to them, lol. Their next film should just be called "Rise of the Reboot" since that's all they have been good at the last decade or so. I'm sure we'll get another 17 Batman films though.
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Re: Full DC Extended Universe Reboot?

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RedMountain wrote: 1 year ago This really sucks, especially since it was widely held that Cavill left The Witcher to do the new Superman or whatever for DC, so I can now also blame DC for ruining another good show not directly related to them, lol. Their next film should just be called "Rise of the Reboot" since that's all they have been good at the last decade or so. I'm sure we'll get another 17 Batman films though.
Cavill supposedly left the Witcher over creative differences. He probably was leaving no matter what.
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Re: Full DC Extended Universe Reboot?

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brdiy wrote: 1 year ago From what I've read, Peter Gunn is looking at consistency across Movies, TV and even gaming, so I wouldn't be surprised if this would be the last season of the Titans...
You mean the one that just ended? Seems unlikely, given that 1) it ended on a complete cliffhanger, and 2) the guest appearance of Stargirl has already been teased for the next season, which will probably be something like another 6 or so episodes.
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Re: Full DC Extended Universe Reboot?

Post by Mr. X »

Yes DC stuff had no consistency. Each movie had kind of its own mood and style. Maybe MOS and BvS were similarly dark. But the Suicide Squad movies weren't like Wonder Woman (and ww2 wasn't like ww1), MOS wasn't like Black Adam, nothing was consistent. At least Marvel had a consistent feel for a large portion of the movies. Chato has a good take on it. While DC is retooling and looking at maybe one last good movie in the super hero genre, Disney is trotting out a tired, 80 year old Harrison Ford. Disney's going to be milking rocks next.
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Re: Full DC Extended Universe Reboot?

Post by brdiy »

shevek wrote: 1 year ago
brdiy wrote: 1 year ago From what I've read, Peter Gunn is looking at consistency across Movies, TV and even gaming, so I wouldn't be surprised if this would be the last season of the Titans...
You mean the one that just ended? Seems unlikely, given that 1) it ended on a complete cliffhanger, and 2) the guest appearance of Stargirl has already been teased for the next season, which will probably be something like another 6 or so episodes.
That wasn't the season ender yet. I believe it's just on a hiatus/mid-season break.
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Re: Full DC Extended Universe Reboot?

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Visitor wrote: 1 year ago Daniel Craig is now 54 and was only a little younger when he did his last James Bond movie. I'm sure he did more action than Superman or Batman will do.

It's more that he is too old for the script idea that Gunn is writing back when Clark Kent was starting out at the Daily Planet. So basically another origin story type movie with hopefully no Krypton and growing up on the farm.
This makes sense.

If they are maybe looking to start again with Superman, maybe tie it back to Pattinson as a younger Batman, then the smart move is to go from the start because the earlier DCEU movies burned through so much of the best material that it wasn't worth keeping them.
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Re: Full DC Extended Universe Reboot?

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https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/hen ... 33817.html

Cameos of Cavill and Gadot cut from the Flash movie. If they continue on the DCEU it looks like it will be in different roles.
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Re: Full DC Extended Universe Reboot?

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Visitor wrote: 1 year ago https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/hen ... 33817.html

Cameos of Cavill and Gadot cut from the Flash movie. If they continue on the DCEU it looks like it will be in different roles.
Their cameos are the only thing I would have wanted to see the Flash movie for.
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Re: Full DC Extended Universe Reboot?

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So Miller gets to stay but Gadot and Cavil are out. Yeah some great priorities. All that fluff criticism of Cavil but no complaint Miller groomed a young girl, abused her, was an absolute dirt bag. BTW where are the previews of this Flash movie?
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Re: Full DC Extended Universe Reboot?

Post by Damselbinder »

How the fuck is the Flash movie still coming out; its star is an actual lunatic criminal
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Re: Full DC Extended Universe Reboot?

Post by DrDominator9 »

Money talks, damselbinder. Lots of it poured into the film. (of course they sunk a lot into the Batgirl film which they pulled the plug on completely so that theory may be weak.) I'm guessing that they're hoping things calm down by the release date in 2023. I suspect the movie won't do all that well since the target audience is being screwed by taking away all the key actors in the DCEU for a full reboot and this film is far past its freshness date. But I guess we'll see.
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Re: Full DC Extended Universe Reboot?

Post by Damselbinder »

DrDominator9 wrote: 1 year ago Money talks, damselbinder. Lots of it poured into the film. (of course they sunk a lot into the Batgirl film which they pulled the plug on completely so that theory may be weak.) I'm guessing that they're hoping things calm down by the release date in 2023. I suspect the movie won't do all that well since the target audience is being screwed by taking away all the key actors in the DCEU for a full reboot and this film is far past its freshness date. But I guess we'll see.
They are going to get crucified in the media if that movie ever sees the light of day. And like... St. Peter crucified, not Jesus crucified. They won't be jumping back up after 72 hours to stroll on outta that tomb
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Re: Full DC Extended Universe Reboot?

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They should go towards the HBO max or Netflix series route...8-12 plus hours of cinematic awesomeness, plus allows more story AND action so not one or the other is sacrificed
Batgirl would be better as a 12 episode hour long series anyway
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Re: Full DC Extended Universe Reboot?

Post by sneakly »

Gadot is a loss, I liked her a lot. I agree with @batgirl1969. They have had their best successes with series. You can make insane money with a blockbuster movie, but it is an all or nothing gamble. A Batman series on HBO or Netflix would be a prestige event and we would be spared another joker origin story. A dozen episode story arc would allow for more interesting storytelling and a chance to develop characters. Marvel has done pretty well going to Disney Plus. Even the shows like Jessica Jones and Dare Devil benefited from the longer format. Spending $100 million for a shitty/ incoherent Batman 17 doesn’t make sense.
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DC also does well with its animated offerings. Not sure what the money is but they do better story wise than the movies or shows.
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Re: Full DC Extended Universe Reboot?

Post by Supergirllegend »

Can I just say, being a DC fan has been torture. I tried to stay invested in Snyder’s universe/ his cut of Justice League was amazing.
They have a few more films yet to come out with a combined cost of over a billion dollars and now they decide to completely scrap everything? Why not wait until after The Flash? As a fan it really destroys your invested interest. The casting of the DC films was awesome- it just never was allowed a coherent vision. I don’t hold out much hope for what Gunn is capable of. Just dick jokes and weird characters.
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Re: Full DC Extended Universe Reboot?

Post by Supergirllegend »

DrDominator9 wrote: 1 year ago
batgirl1969 wrote: 1 year ago I will just stick to the porn parodies, they are usually better anyway and more of them
Will you watch The Flash movie for your girl Supergirl or will you skip since she's not a blonde? Inquiring minds need to know!
For me anyways it’s a hard no. The costume sucks as does the actress’s haircut. She looks like Superboy!
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Re: Full DC Extended Universe Reboot?

Post by Lurkndog »

Mr. X wrote: 1 year ago DC also does well with its animated offerings. Not sure what the money is but they do better story wise than the movies or shows.
Ironically, that may be because the powers that be don't care that much about them.

Though, IMHO, the quality of DC's animated offerings has declined steeply in the last few years, and they've had a bunch of duds along the way, like the 2009 animated Wonder Woman movie that was a Ninja Scroll knockoff.
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Re: Full DC Extended Universe Reboot?

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Lurkndog wrote: 1 year ago
Mr. X wrote: 1 year ago DC also does well with its animated offerings. Not sure what the money is but they do better story wise than the movies or shows.
Ironically, that may be because the powers that be don't care that much about them.

Though, IMHO, the quality of DC's animated offerings has declined steeply in the last few years, and they've had a bunch of duds along the way, like the 2009 animated Wonder Woman movie that was a Ninja Scroll knockoff.
True plus I don't like the newer 3d animated stuff. Not very dynamic. But still better than anything Marvel puts out. Avengers Assemble was so cheaply done.

Now Dragon Ball Super Hero was off the hook good.
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Re: Full DC Extended Universe Reboot?

Post by Damselbinder »

Mr. X wrote: 1 year ago
Lurkndog wrote: 1 year ago
Mr. X wrote: 1 year ago DC also does well with its animated offerings. Not sure what the money is but they do better story wise than the movies or shows.
Ironically, that may be because the powers that be don't care that much about them.

Though, IMHO, the quality of DC's animated offerings has declined steeply in the last few years, and they've had a bunch of duds along the way, like the 2009 animated Wonder Woman movie that was a Ninja Scroll knockoff.
True plus I don't like the newer 3d animated stuff. Not very dynamic. But still better than anything Marvel puts out. Avengers Assemble was so cheaply done.

Now Dragon Ball Super Hero was off the hook good.
Hm!

Off the hook good? I don't agree. I quite liked it; and the animation was dynamic and fun - I certainly had a good time. I liked the new villains a good bit, with the exception of Cell Max, who was such a shadow of his original self I think it was a real mistake to use the name 'Cell' at all. Gohan getting a new form is... nice; but for the fact that Super already had the exact same arc ("Gohan you suck, let's train you to be based again"). Bringing back Cell and giving Gohan a form which makes his proportions suspiciously similar to what they were when he first killed Cell is obviously meant to put the idea in your head that he's back to being cool again... but the moment didn't really earn it? Like he was just punching a monstro.

That said, Piccolo (the movie's true star) was fab, the music was great, and Beerus flirting with Cheelai is both hideously believable and also just disgusting.


Not as good as Super Broly. That movie was absolute fire. But - not bad!
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I liked how they did Pan. The attention to detail. The animation was great, far better than US offerings. Yes the plot is boiler plate. Get Gohan mad. Not sure how they would top Dragon Ball Super.

One thing I do hate is someone gets to the top of the ladder then all sorts of people beat them. Happened to Vegeta, Frieza, Piccolo, now Jiren.
Beerus flirting with Cheelai is both hideously believable and also just disgusting
Why? Is she under age or something?
Not as good as Super Broly. That movie was absolute fire. But - not bad!
True. That was better. More action.
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Re: Full DC Extended Universe Reboot?

Post by Damselbinder »

Mr. X wrote: 1 year ago
Beerus flirting with Cheelai is both hideously believable and also just disgusting
Why? Is she under age or something?
Not as good as Super Broly. That movie was absolute fire. But - not bad!
True. That was better. More action.
Oh, lol, not that I know of. Just Beerus is a gross hairless cat dude and the idea of him boinking a cute lady apalls me.

More action and also just more going on, you know? All that (pretty interesting!) backstory; Freeza fucking around and, to a limited extent, finding out; and having the climax of the movie be that the 'villain' needs to be saved from the hero. Plus - the 2D-with-3D looks better than the pure(ish) 3D of Super Hero. That's subjective of course, but I think that's the general consensus.
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Damselbinder wrote: 1 year ago
Mr. X wrote: 1 year ago
Beerus flirting with Cheelai is both hideously believable and also just disgusting
Why? Is she under age or something?
Not as good as Super Broly. That movie was absolute fire. But - not bad!
True. That was better. More action.
Oh, lol, not that I know of. Just Beerus is a gross hairless cat dude and the idea of him boinking a cute lady apalls me.

More action and also just more going on, you know? All that (pretty interesting!) backstory; Freeza fucking around and, to a limited extent, finding out; and having the climax of the movie be that the 'villain' needs to be saved from the hero. Plus - the 2D-with-3D looks better than the pure(ish) 3D of Super Hero. That's subjective of course, but I think that's the general consensus.
Oh true. Superhero is 3d. Yeah the 2d is always better like the final Super fight with Jiren and Goku. No way someone can pull that off in 3d. I'm sure there will be SHIP with Beerus and Cheelai
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Re: Full DC Extended Universe Reboot?

Post by Damselbinder »

Mr. X wrote: 1 year ago
Damselbinder wrote: 1 year ago
Mr. X wrote: 1 year ago
Beerus flirting with Cheelai is both hideously believable and also just disgusting
Why? Is she under age or something?
Not as good as Super Broly. That movie was absolute fire. But - not bad!
True. That was better. More action.
Oh, lol, not that I know of. Just Beerus is a gross hairless cat dude and the idea of him boinking a cute lady apalls me.

More action and also just more going on, you know? All that (pretty interesting!) backstory; Freeza fucking around and, to a limited extent, finding out; and having the climax of the movie be that the 'villain' needs to be saved from the hero. Plus - the 2D-with-3D looks better than the pure(ish) 3D of Super Hero. That's subjective of course, but I think that's the general consensus.
Oh true. Superhero is 3d. Yeah the 2d is always better like the final Super fight with Jiren and Goku. No way someone can pull that off in 3d. I'm sure there will be SHIP with Beerus and Cheelai
Jiren vs Goku. Pfft. The REAL action is Jiren vs Freeza and 17. Now THAT shit was styles upon styles.

Also ewwww don't say that, I don't even want Beerus to know that sex exists
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Re: Full DC Extended Universe Reboot?

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True about the Jiren fight. In fact I liked the Master Roshi segment since he used much more tactics than the others. Reminds me of old dragon ball days.
I have noticed a trend in which Goku loses a lot. Goes all the way back to after he beat Frieza. Except for the one off movies he hasn't beaten anyone without some bail out. He lost against Cell, lost against Picon, Lost against Golden Frieza, lost against buu and had to be recharged, lost against Beerus, lost against Frost, lost against Hit, lost the first tournament with Topu, lost against Jiren, lost against Broly, lost against Zamasu. He doesn't have a good track record. Don't know why everyone has faith in him.
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Re: Full DC Extended Universe Reboot?

Post by Dazzle1 »

Mr. X wrote: 1 year ago DC also does well with its animated offerings. Not sure what the money is but they do better story wise than the movies or shows.
The Animation is much better than the live action or Marvel live action.

My biggest complaints how they make Nightwing lose to people like Damien Wayne or Harley Quinn and more importantly Wonder Woman does not use her magic lasso the right way or we never get to see the villains use it on her.
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Re: Full DC Extended Universe Reboot?

Post by Damselbinder »

Mr. X wrote: 1 year ago True about the Jiren fight. In fact I liked the Master Roshi segment since he used much more tactics than the others. Reminds me of old dragon ball days.
I have noticed a trend in which Goku loses a lot. Goes all the way back to after he beat Frieza. Except for the one off movies he hasn't beaten anyone without some bail out. He lost against Cell, lost against Picon, Lost against Golden Frieza, lost against buu and had to be recharged, lost against Beerus, lost against Frost, lost against Hit, lost the first tournament with Topu, lost against Jiren, lost against Broly, lost against Zamasu. He doesn't have a good track record. Don't know why everyone has faith in him.
He beat Pikkon clean. And he beat Hit clean. The only time he lost against Hit was post-tournament when he hired Hit to assassinate him to learn better how his moves worked.

And as for the others... well, yeah? Guess the writers don't want the ending of each arc to be 'Goku beats up the bad guy by being The Fucking Strong'. Like, in most of those he's still the one finding a way to make the victory happen, it's just that other characters are also important and contribute to the victory. The show isn't called 'Goku', after all. He lost to Cell because the show was passing the torch to Gohan; he couldn't beat Buu clean but he still was the one who nailed him with the Spirit Bomb; Frost cheated in a tournament with gentlemanly rules of conduct (i.e. it wasn't a matter of life or death); he lost to Toppo to put Toppo over as a real threat; he 'lost' to Jiren but... he and Freeza were still the ones who kicked him off the stage; he lost to Broly because - like, it's Broly, the point of him is that his power is maximum and Goku is still one half of Gogeta; and Zamasu... let's just not talk about the way all that ended...

Man I don't even know why I'm defending Goku all that much. He's annoying af in Super, I wish Piccolo was the main character. :(
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Ernie
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Re: Full DC Extended Universe Reboot?

Post by Ernie »

Lurkndog wrote: 1 year ago and they've had a bunch of duds along the way, like the 2009 animated Wonder Woman movie
So that beautifully animated, sexy, action packed, peril filled movie that made 10 million dollars was a dud to you?
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Re: Full DC Extended Universe Reboot?

Post by Dazzle1 »

Mr. X wrote: 1 year ago
Lurkndog wrote: 1 year ago
Mr. X wrote: 1 year ago DC also does well with its animated offerings. Not sure what the money is but they do better story wise than the movies or shows.
Ironically, that may be because the powers that be don't care that much about them.

Though, IMHO, the quality of DC's animated offerings has declined steeply in the last few years, and they've had a bunch of duds along the way, like the 2009 animated Wonder Woman movie that was a Ninja Scroll knockoff.
True plus I don't like the newer 3d animated stuff. Not very dynamic. But still better than anything Marvel puts out. Avengers Assemble was so cheaply done.

Now Dragon Ball Super Hero was off the hook good.
May I put my two cents for Yu Yu Hakusho over Dragonball. I thought the characters were more interesting and the fights more fun to watch
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Re: Full DC Extended Universe Reboot?

Post by Mr. X »

Damselbinder wrote: 1 year ago Man I don't even know why I'm defending Goku all that much. He's annoying af in Super, I wish Piccolo was the main character. :(
I'd pick Vegeta over Piccolo. Vegeta is far more interesting that Goku. Goku is a golden boy. Vegeta has to gain every inch through pain and failure.
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Re: Full DC Extended Universe Reboot?

Post by Damselbinder »

Mr. X wrote: 1 year ago
Damselbinder wrote: 1 year ago Man I don't even know why I'm defending Goku all that much. He's annoying af in Super, I wish Piccolo was the main character. :(
I'd pick Vegeta over Piccolo. Vegeta is far more interesting that Goku. Goku is a golden boy. Vegeta has to gain every inch through pain and failure.
I mean they both play it both ways, eh. Vegeta was born into prestige and power far greater than most of his peers. Goku started out very much on the low end. In Vegeta's own words Goku's power was attained through "his history of fierce combat" - he had to train pretty hard too, eh. SSJ3 and Ultra Instinct are the only power ups which are presented to the audience as though Goku's just been handed them - which isn't nothing, I'll grant you; but it's not quite as bad as you make it seem.

In fact the 'pain and failure' thing seems to be what's been holding Vegeta back. Whis says outright that Vegeta 'torturing' his body to gain more power prevents him from attaining his true potential. We see the fruits of this in Super Hero, in fact - his new philosophy allows him to beat Goku.

In fact I'd say Gohan is more of a golden boy than Goku is. Goku's a bit boring - and he's become worse in super - because he's a shadow of his former self. Now he's nothing but "fight! train! fight! food! get strong!". Vegeta's not more interesting because he has to work hard: Goku and Vegeta train TOGETHER now, they work just as hard as each other - he's more interesting because there's so much more going on with him anyway.


...We should probably move this to another thread, eh?

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