The Rings of Power

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Re: The Rings of Power

Post by Femina »

Mr. X wrote: 5 months ago
Femina wrote: 5 months ago ANYHOW, baring the possibility that somebody would like to take pity and directly label Mr. X or anyone else a racist to satisfy his victim complex and have the whole website locked down, I'd say it's past time we resumed the actual discussion about this show.
Yup I knew that was where this was going. Disagreement = you're racist.
BTW suffer being called a pedo relentlessly and see how that works out for you.

Victim complex? like turning ANY CRITICISM of the show into "I'm being attacked cause of my race".
If you read between the lines I think you'll realize I was actually calling you a big baby. Whether or not that's better or worse is for you to decide.

This is really a new low for you Mr. X. I've had probably fifty arguments with you on this website over the last ten years....... but I honestly can't recall if you've ever quite taken this DENSE a stance before. It's like I asked the room "Apples or Oranges?" and you've spent the last half a page going "WHAT THE FUCK DID YOU SAY ABOUT BANANAS!?" and no matter how emphatically anyone directs you to the original question, all you will do is scream "BANANAS!" at the top of your lungs. So be it.

In other words: I see you STILL haven't read the post of mine you've been bitching about nonstop for days xD. For convienance sake I'll just go ahead and repost it so you can continue to ignore the contents and rant about whatever the hell you'd like. Edit: I've gone ahead and underlined a point that you in particular may wish to take to heart for future arguments!
They freaked out when one of the dwarves and one of the elves was revealed to be black. But you know what? A weak argument can actually be made from a 'Tolkien purist' perspective that 'may' be interpreted to not be just racism... so that's an argument I don't personally levy at people personally. My own perspective in this sphere comes down to the economics of the medium. RoP is THE most expensive project... probably EVER across entertainment mediums and distributing its acting budget SOLELY to white folk under the umbrella of remaining 'pure to the material' is a weak platform economically... but an argument actually exists there that has the potential to not just be racism. I personally would have set it in a period where the Southrons and Easterlings were more present and sympathetic... but that's me. Maybe analytics indicated that the forging of the rings is simply the best place to pick up to get a popular audience response idfk.


The SEXISM however is clear and evident and unlike veiled racism I can actually PROVE this. POINT BLANK.

You see. What you do is, you take a certain repetitive platform of behavior presented 'en masse' as a basic observation. "Galadriel in armor is a travesty!!!!!" as reported by some Dozen youtube videos and web articles DAILY for months. You occasionally must recognize that a platform that 'women in armor doesn't make sense historically' from that history buff sort of person may not actually be racist... but doesn't apply here because its FANTASY and elves are superhuman. So that basically leaves your political or otherwise folk terrified of 'woke' media who claim they are merely 'tired of seeing the 'action gal' as the sole interpretation of women and that we are losing the 'good ol' days of the lovely damsel' or whatever and you know what? ORDINARILY, as much as one might suspect or even 'know' in their gut that the arguments are put forth in bad faith to mask a flood of sexism... they are putting forward an argument that has the potential of being real concerns and not JUST based entirely on their innate sexism so you have to swallow your bile and grit your teeth. BUT NOT TODAY

The problem HERE is that it's all easy to disprove. We KNOW these arguments as presented against GALADRIEL in particular are presented in BAD FAITH because all of these people are bitching from a platform that pushes a particular political slant... AND none of them have any idea what they are actually talking about. You see, they've all SEEN Lord of the Rings. They saw Galadriel as a wise old woman at the end of the timeline, garbed in sleek long gowns and behaving with majestic ladylike conduct... but none of them appear privy to the facts that canonically, in the actual factual literature AS WRITTEN by Tolkien himself, Galadriel was historically an action girl who left her home with the adventurous sort of elves that wanted to hunt the Silmarils and fight Morgoth, that she absolutely fought in DOZENS of battles both before AND after she ever studied the greater magics under Melian the Maia.

In other words, Galadriel in armor makes perfect sense in this period of Middle-Earth. 'WOKE' or not, it was woke coming on FIFTY YEARS AGO when the Silmarillion was written and that's something you should KNOW before you go pushing your sexist diatribe about how unjust it is that such a 'seminal staple of ladylike goodness as THE Galadriel has been besmirched by these woke creators!!!! Galadriel wears dresses!? These creators must just hate dresses! Tolkien would be rolling in his grave if he saw Galadriel in ARMOR!?"

The literature is something you should familiarize yourself with before you try to use it for disingenuous talking points to push your political agenda lest you accidentally throw back the curtain of your actual intent. It reveals the truth behind EVERYONE who has ever posted an article or video about the tragedy against poor man Tolkein that these creators have dared to besmirch Galadriel's ladyness in this way. It calls them ALL out because even if they are only reporting what they've heard reported elsewhere and didn't intend to do it themselves, they saw a talking point for their agenda and immediately plugged it without doing any research at all. To them, it's a convenient angle to lazily push their shit from... but this time it was a talking point with a BULLSHIT tracker attached to it fifty fucking years ago!

Adu.
You see it's about SEXism Mr. X. Say it with me.... SEXism. Specifically about the sexism that's proved by platforms who are misrepresenting the original literature in order to push their agendas. Note that I've clearly NOT attacked anyone with problems about racial casting... funny that huh?
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Re: The Rings of Power

Post by Dogfish »

ivandobsky wrote: 5 months ago cheer up guys. :)
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See I must be insane but I really like the return to Tolkien's vision of Galadriel as a warrior queen. He envisioned her as the mightiest of all the elves, describing her as like an Amazon. Key part there is not, "She's pretty handy with a sword that Galadriel." Literally the mightiest of all the elves. Like she's the elf that turns up and all the orcs are suddenly all, "Meat's off the menu boys, in fact it was never on the menu, this isn't even a Wendy's. What's an orc?"

Which I am down with.

The dirty little secret is in LOTR all of the essentially ageless characters are total badasses. Gandalf kills a Balrog with a sword and nobody is out here saying that he shouldn't be able to do that because wizards don't have strength and dexterity as prime requisites.

Also I like that in ROP we see Galadriel and Elrond as this odd but complementary couple, him a charming nerd, she a determined soldier. It is legit cute as fuck.
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Re: The Rings of Power

Post by Femina »

Dogfish wrote: 5 months ago
ivandobsky wrote: 5 months ago cheer up guys. :)
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See I must be insane but I really like the return to Tolkien's vision of Galadriel as a warrior queen. He envisioned her as the mightiest of all the elves, describing her as like an Amazon. Key part there is not, "She's pretty handy with a sword that Galadriel." Literally the mightiest of all the elves. Like she's the elf that turns up and all the orcs are suddenly all, "Meat's off the menu boys, in fact it was never on the menu, this isn't even a Wendy's. What's an orc?"

Which I am down with.

The dirty little secret is in LOTR all of the essentially ageless characters are total badasses. Gandalf kills a Balrog with a sword and nobody is out here saying that he shouldn't be able to do that because wizards don't have strength and dexterity as prime requisites.

Also I like that in ROP we see Galadriel and Elrond as this odd but complementary couple, him a charming nerd, she a determined soldier. It is legit cute as fuck.
It's also relatively lore accurate considering what they have the rights for. Galadriel wasn't always a powerful 'witch' mage whose woods evil feared to tread in. In her youth she was described by Tolkien himself to be of 'Amazon disposition' . NOW if I were to bring up any 'legit' complaints about Galadriel in this series, it's that the creators basically literally CANT delve into anything from the First Age due to rights issues... and technically yes, Galadriel should have already done a good deal of 'magic' training under Melian nearish the end of the First Age... but to be blunt we have yet to determine if Galadriel is incapable of using any witchy light magic or not since her not using magic as yet isn't proof that she CAN'T use it... all we know really is that her swordsmanship is up to snuff as you'd expect of somebody of 'Amazon disposition' and she doesn't go to battle in a dress (like only a complete moron would) in this age where her magic isn't literally so strong that orcs piss themselves in her presence...

Galadriel went to battle OFTEN in the first and second age. All them 'Galadriel hated war' BS you hear flying around did not extend to the PURE EVIL of Morgoth and Sauron. She disliked wars between the peoples of middle earth, she had no qualms whatsoever about spanking orcs (nobody did. Sympathy for Orcs would be sort of like agonizing over killing Cancer). It's also not odd AT ALL that she didn't bother to inform Frodo of her thousands of years of history during his short visit to Lothlorian. It'd be silly if she DID do that.
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Re: The Rings of Power

Post by Femina »

Four episodes in and I'm consistently either at an 'above average' level of enjoyment to occasional bouts of full on absorbed in the show. It's GOOD. It's not like the BEST EVER television... but it's not mediocre either. It's GOOD, and more importantly it's getting BETTER with each episode.
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Re: The Rings of Power

Post by Dogfish »

I'm enjoying how it is allowing itself to have good characters. Like, there are folks in this show who are good people, and there's no shade of grey to them, they're not waiting for a chance to do a heel turn and kill everybody, they're just good folks with various plans that'll probably go very wrong. One of the tiring things about something like Game of Thrones was knowing that because it's grimdark everybody must fail, if it can go wrong it will go wrong, and so on. This is much more upbeat, and even if things do go horribly wrong, which I expect they will, it won't be because everybody was a sadistic incestuous weirdo.

Kind of refreshing, innit.

Particular example was the dwarf king talking with his son. Expected some sort of wildly destructive familial set-to, instead wisdom prevailed.
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Re: The Rings of Power

Post by NotUv2 »

Femina wrote: 4 months ago Four episodes in and I'm consistently either at an 'above average' level of enjoyment to occasional bouts of full on absorbed in the show. It's GOOD. It's not like the BEST EVER television... but it's not mediocre either. It's GOOD, and more importantly it's getting BETTER with each episode.
I was a bit lukewarm on it at first, but things have really picked up with the fourth episode in particular. It'll be interesting to see where they take it.
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Re: The Rings of Power

Post by shevek »

So I'm not paying super close attention to this controversy, but from what I understand there was some sort of political rally in Numenor? :)
numenoreans as xenophobes.jpg
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Re: The Rings of Power

Post by Dogfish »

Wasn't aware there was a controversy. Although to be fair the only news I've been able to get for the last week has been QUEEN DEAD BE SAD PEASANT.
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Re: The Rings of Power

Post by Damselbinder »

Ngl that scene was pretty cringe
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Re: The Rings of Power

Post by Dogfish »

I didn't mind it but I can see why folks might think it was a bit on the nose. The arguments the guy was making were incredibly stupid, but then appeals to bigotry and xenophobia are inherently stupid. The stupids are the target audience, they don't want you to bring a Powerpoint presentation with a bunch of graphs.

It's sad that the elves gave the men of Numenor a bunch of upgrades to life expectancy and whatnot but couldn't make them smarter. Which I guess explains why they're almost all dead by the time of The Hobbit.
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Re: The Rings of Power

Post by Damselbinder »

I think aside from the fact that it was really on the nose I think it's also kind of obscured what Numenor's actual beef with the elves is.
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Re: The Rings of Power

Post by Femina »

Yeah just... I mean... What jobs do they think the Elves care about? They've had one elf in like two decades and she's OBVIOUSLY highborn and already expressed that she's like... a professional soldier.... do they think her real scheme is to pick up carpentry in Numenor square? I mean we're all guilty of thinking we're more important than we are from time to time, but Numenoreans apparently take the cake.

No controversy though? The scene even just ended with a politician walking by and going 'You're all being stupid. We're not stupid, so quit being stupid.' and that was the end of it.
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Re: The Rings of Power

Post by shevek »

Sorry, I meant the overall controversy about the show. Not that specific scene.

Anyway, here's a funny parody intro from 1/4 Black Garrett of the Friday Night Tights crew.
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Re: The Rings of Power

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Femina wrote: 4 months ago Yeah just... I mean... What jobs do they think the Elves care about? They've had one elf in like two decades and she's OBVIOUSLY highborn and already expressed that she's like... a professional soldier.... do they think her real scheme is to pick up carpentry in Numenor square? I mean we're all guilty of thinking we're more important than we are from time to time, but Numenoreans apparently take the cake.
Yeah "they're gonna take our jerbs" is a bit silly in-setting. I actually wonder if whoever wrote that scene was a Shadowrun player; that's how Humanis Policlub used to talk in Shadowrun games, where the fantasy races were stand-ins for marginalized human groups.

Envy of immortality should be more than enough, really; that's what happens in The Silmarillion. But then, the series can't actually directly use anything referenced in The Silmarillion, since they only have the rights to the LOTR trilogy and whatever it references in passing. Everything else has to be independently invented, which will probably explain weird stuff like that.
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Re: The Rings of Power

Post by Dogfish »

I guess we're going to find out what the beef is with Numenor. Seems to be a contentious issue within the kingdom itself and I suspect it was news to Galadriel too.

And yeah, taking the jerbs is dumb, but it's always a dumb issue that is going to come up for a mob like that. Nobody whipped up a racist mob with appeals to reason or practicality. First off is 'They are coming for your jobs' and following on from that is 'they are coming for your women'. The textbook is so old is was probably sitting under the first tree when the elves appeared.

As for general controversy, beyond the usual goblin hissing from the professionally outraged crowd about the existence of people who aren't white in a show with a giant fish monster in it I don't think there is any.
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Re: The Rings of Power

Post by Dogfish »

Weird to think there's only three episodes left, kind of figured this was going to be a one and done, but there's definitely a lot more to cover so there might have to be a lot more. I've really only just now started looking into what the story essentially needs to cover, and the second age is big.
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Re: The Rings of Power

Post by CJS »

Dogfish wrote: 4 months ago Weird to think there's only three episodes left, kind of figured this was going to be a one and done, but there's definitely a lot more to cover so there might have to be a lot more. I've really only just now started looking into what the story essentially needs to cover, and the second age is big.
I wish I had saved the link, but I read an article somewhere that mentioned they were planning more than one season.
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Re: The Rings of Power

Post by Femina »

they plan like five seasons or something. Yeah this is just the start.
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Re: The Rings of Power

Post by Dogfish »

Wow. That last episode was epic as fuck.
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Re: The Rings of Power

Post by Alice »

In my opinion, Amazon has completely destroyed the Rings Of Power brand, this series gets a 1/10 rating, this show is a travesty of the Rings OF Power book, how these Amazon mobs could destroy it like that
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Re: The Rings of Power

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Alice wrote: 4 months ago In my opinion, Amazon has completely destroyed the Rings Of Power brand, this series gets a 1/10 rating, this show is a travesty of the Rings OF Power book, how these Amazon mobs could destroy it like that
Did you seriously post this exact same thing in TWO topic threads?

There is no 'Rings of Power' book. The period of time the show takes place in is covered very marginally in The Silmarillion and some Unfinished Tales. Go read a wiki or two before you say things.
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Re: The Rings of Power

Post by Damselbinder »

Alice wrote: 4 months ago In my opinion, Amazon has completely destroyed the Rings Of Power brand, this series gets a 1/10 rating, this show is a travesty of the Rings OF Power book, how these Amazon mobs could destroy it like that
"The Rings of Power Book".


Yeah. Okay.
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Re: The Rings of Power

Post by Alice »

ok no problem, this is just my opinion on this show

Femina wrote: 4 months ago
Alice wrote: 4 months ago In my opinion, Amazon has completely destroyed the Rings Of Power brand, this series gets a 1/10 rating, this show is a travesty of the Rings OF Power book, how these Amazon mobs could destroy it like that
Did you seriously post this exact same thing in TWO topic threads?

There is no 'Rings of Power' book. The period of time the show takes place in is covered very marginally in The Silmarillion and some Unfinished Tales. Go read a wiki or two before you say things.
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Re: The Rings of Power

Post by batgirl1969 »

But can we all at least agree that Galadriel is a beautiful creature, worthy of our worship and all our love!!! Imagine how delicious she smells in her Elvish attire.....
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Re: The Rings of Power

Post by helstar »

Alice wrote: 4 months ago this show is a travesty of the Rings OF Power book
I'm sorry but... I don't even care about this show and never readed any book of the saga (it's just not really my cup of tea, just watched the LOTR trilogy on TV once, several years ago, and that's it), but to read such hilarious rant coming from somebody who probably got even less knowledge of me of the whole thing, it's just hysterical :giggle:
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Re: The Rings of Power

Post by sugarcoater »

Damselbinder wrote: 4 months ago
Alice wrote: 4 months ago In my opinion, Amazon has completely destroyed the Rings Of Power brand, this series gets a 1/10 rating, this show is a travesty of the Rings OF Power book, how these Amazon mobs could destroy it like that
"The Rings of Power Book".


Yeah. Okay.
For what it's worth, Alice is from Poland so perhaps the title is different in a different language.
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Re: The Rings of Power

Post by Heroine Addict »

Alice wrote: 4 months ago In my opinion, Amazon has completely destroyed the Rings Of Power brand, this series gets a 1/10 rating, this show is a travesty of the Rings OF Power book, how these Amazon mobs could destroy it like that
What exactly is your criticism? Do you have a problem with any adaptation, spin off or prequel that departs from the source material - which is basically every adaptation ever made - or is their something particularly egregious about ROP?
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Re: The Rings of Power

Post by Dogfish »

This whole "This is bad! This is so bad! Grr!" attitude has one of those fucked up culture war deals doesn't it, has to be.

There wasn't a fraction of this venom directed at the Hobbit movies, and they were based on an existing story, not created fresh, and they were pretty bad if we're being honest. But all the characters were white so the outrage machine stayed quiet. Did have a couple of extra women in there but that didn't provoke nearly as much crywanking.

Meanwhile that last episode was completely brilliant.
Spoiler
The show bringing home a six episode slow burn in literally breathtaking style. I've never seen anything like that in a TV show, nobody has outside of this show, it's never been done before, never been attempted. Awesome stuff, in the literal sense of provoking a profound sense of 'WHAT THE HELL IS THIS, THIS IS AMAZING'.

The scale of it. The sheer audacity. This must have been what it was like for folks back in the day to see movies with a cast of thousands.

Somebody just sat down and wrote an epic ambush scene, a battle scene, another battle scene with a cavalry attack, then a horseback chase through a forest, and capped it off with the shocking, stunning, and completely mesmeric birth of Mordor as we know it from the other stories, and just stuck them all together in a single episode of a TV show.

To use the footballing expression, my head's gone.

It obviously needs the previous episodes for context, but that's one of the best episodes of any show I've ever seen.


And yes, Galadriel is perfect. I loved that moment when she rides into battle and the kid is dumbstruck like, "Who's she?" and I realised I was pretty much feeling the exact same way. That's how you make an entrance. Riding a horse like a boss and killing Orcs*. Damn.


*I guess we have to call them Uruks now. That whole bit about them was brilliant too. It's like sure, we'll just throw in the sort of philosophical question that usually only pops up in a top-tier Star Trek episode almost as an afterthought, because that's what this show can do apparently. Everything. It can do Everything.
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Re: The Rings of Power

Post by NotUv2 »

I'm with @Dogfish on this one. Udun was an amazing episode whatever way you slice it. That final scene was literally breathtaking. The whole episode was action-packed and riveting. Watching the Numenoreans wreck shop only to be suddenly confronted by the scale of what is actually going on in Middle Earth was rad. The slow burn of the prior episodes paid off handsomely.

"Adar" is also, one has to admit, kind of a badass villain. In the scene where
Spoiler
Galadriel held a knife to his throat and threatened to execute him as a "slavering Orc," only to be pulled back by her friend, you have to admire the stones of a man who would still quietly remind her that "Orc" is not the preferred nomenclature. "Uruk," please.
You have to be a little impressed at the steadiness of his nerve. Or the sheer degree of his audacity.
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Re: The Rings of Power

Post by Femina »

Dogfish wrote: 4 months ago This whole "This is bad! This is so bad! Grr!" attitude has one of those fucked up culture war deals doesn't it, has to be.
You should probably add some spoiler tags to some bits of your post here. It's pretty spoilerific for anyone who hasn't seen it yet.

And yes it's entirely a culture war deal. The show's naysayers tipped their hands crying about how Galadriel wearing armor instead of a dress would make Tolkien roll around in his grave despite the fact that he wrote about young Galadriel as an elf maiden of 'Amazon disposition' who canonically participated in a whole crapload of battles throughout the first and second ages.

As for the episode! I pretty much agree with the opinions on display here. Udun was really very good with a huge smile inducing climax that hammers home where on Middle Earth we are for anyone who still hadn't figured it out in a visually incredible sequence. As with the rest of the show I maintain 'nitpick' issues that keep it from ever feeling PERFECT!!! to me... but which don't keep me from enjoying and looking forward to each episode.

........ and Galadriel was always my favorite LotR lady to begin with for erm... our purposes <_< >_>.... having a very pretty younger example of her riding around being full on fantasy heroine certainly isn't curing me of that....
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Re: The Rings of Power

Post by Alice »

It's just that this adaptation of the Tolkien books, done by Amazon in the production of Rings of Power, looks like a comedy with a poor quality of dialogue, the only plus of this series is the visual setting of the set design, and Galadier is such a muted person who thinks that she deserves everything.
Heroine Addict wrote: 4 months ago
Alice wrote: 4 months ago In my opinion, Amazon has completely destroyed the Rings Of Power brand, this series gets a 1/10 rating, this show is a travesty of the Rings OF Power book, how these Amazon mobs could destroy it like that
What exactly is your criticism? Do you have a problem with any adaptation, spin off or prequel that departs from the source material - which is basically every adaptation ever made - or is their something particularly egregious about ROP?
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Re: The Rings of Power

Post by Dogfish »

Alice wrote: 4 months ago It's just that this adaptation of the Tolkien books, done by Amazon in the production of Rings of Power, looks like a comedy with a poor quality of dialogue, the only plus of this series is the visual setting of the set design, and Galadier is such a muted person who thinks that she deserves everything.
Heroine Addict wrote: 4 months ago
Alice wrote: 4 months ago In my opinion, Amazon has completely destroyed the Rings Of Power brand, this series gets a 1/10 rating, this show is a travesty of the Rings OF Power book, how these Amazon mobs could destroy it like that
What exactly is your criticism? Do you have a problem with any adaptation, spin off or prequel that departs from the source material - which is basically every adaptation ever made - or is their something particularly egregious about ROP?
You think Tolkien wrote good dialogue? The guy would drop the story for a dozen pages to add a song.

We're not seeing somebody rewrite Shakespeare here. Tolkien wrote the Lord of the Rings so he'd have somewhere for his made up languages to live. It's great, but it is not sacred.

I'd have more objections to Gimli and Legolas keeping score of the people they've killed, or the Elves showing up at Helm's Deep from the Peter Jackson movies than I'd have to anything in Rings of Power.
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Re: The Rings of Power

Post by Damselbinder »

Dogfish wrote: 4 months ago
Alice wrote: 4 months ago It's just that this adaptation of the Tolkien books, done by Amazon in the production of Rings of Power, looks like a comedy with a poor quality of dialogue, the only plus of this series is the visual setting of the set design, and Galadier is such a muted person who thinks that she deserves everything.
Heroine Addict wrote: 4 months ago
Alice wrote: 4 months ago In my opinion, Amazon has completely destroyed the Rings Of Power brand, this series gets a 1/10 rating, this show is a travesty of the Rings OF Power book, how these Amazon mobs could destroy it like that
What exactly is your criticism? Do you have a problem with any adaptation, spin off or prequel that departs from the source material - which is basically every adaptation ever made - or is their something particularly egregious about ROP?
You think Tolkien wrote good dialogue? The guy would drop the story for a dozen pages to add a song.

We're not seeing somebody rewrite Shakespeare here. Tolkien wrote the Lord of the Rings so he'd have somewhere for his made up languages to live. It's great, but it is not sacred.

I'd have more objections to Gimli and Legolas keeping score of the people they've killed, or the Elves showing up at Helm's Deep from the Peter Jackson movies than I'd have to anything in Rings of Power.
Bruh.

Hold up.

Tolkien's writing is based. Read how he describes the moment when the Rohirrim arrive at the Fields of Pelennor and tell me in all honesty that's not the sickest shit ever.
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Re: The Rings of Power

Post by Dogfish »

I'm talking about the dialogue, there's a lot of great stuff in there but I don't think the dialogue is necessarily it. And even the bits that are great are heavily diluted by the musical numbers, which it turns out don't work so well in book form.
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Re: The Rings of Power

Post by Femina »

Dogfish wrote: 4 months ago I'm talking about the dialogue, there's a lot of great stuff in there but I don't think the dialogue is necessarily it. And even the bits that are great are heavily diluted by the musical numbers, which it turns out don't work so well in book form.
idk Dogfish... most of the songs in the films were all written in the books... all they did was add a musical ditty to the lyrics. That's including like the only GOOD scenes in the Hobbit, Billy Boyd bringing the mood down for Faramir's doomed charge etc... All that were written down first. If there exists ANYTHING 'sacred' in the fantasy genre... it's probably LotR. There's nothing else with half the pedegree, Harry Potter MAYBE but it's just not old enough to be a sacred cow and its author is still alive. There's acclaim sure, there's love and fandoms of all sorts... but Lord of the Rings is the grandfather of all modern fantasy... It's the genesis of how people's baseline imaginations concoct everything from D&D to Game of Thrones... only Tolkien did it without Lord of the Rings for inspiration.
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Re: The Rings of Power

Post by NotUv2 »

Tolkien was really exceptional at writing action and setting in particular, but he was also one of those writers where it's actually really hard to cut out parts of the writing, dialogue or even poetry and "ditties," without affecting the whole. Jackson came as close to doing that capably as anyone could, but noticeably, wherever even his work diverges from the original text, it comes off the worse. (Cf. the "dwarf-tossing" jokes, which are notably corny and which Tolkien never would've sunk to.)

The poetry and "ditties" were part of that; some of those have aged better than others, but probably most productions would actually benefit from working them in than excluding them. With the possible exception of Tom Bombadil, although notably, Bombadil was still a crucial part of the *worldbuilding* even if there's a lot else about his appearance in the books that doesn't land as well as it could.

The Rings of Power series does suffer somewhat by comparison with Tolkien's actual written works. But so does any adaptation, and here, they're not even working from the books themselves. They've compensated quite impressively at this point.
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Re: The Rings of Power

Post by shevek »

No dog in this fight, but JSG vids do come up in my recommends, and he knows what's he talking about more than most, so I figured I'd place this here - people can feel free to disagree or agree as they like. Again, this is just a reference - I probably won't post in this thread again.

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Re: The Rings of Power

Post by Femina »

shevek wrote: 4 months ago No dog in this fight, but JSG vids do come up in my recommends, and he knows what's he talking about more than most, so I figured I'd place this here - people can feel free to disagree or agree as they like. Again, this is just a reference - I probably won't post in this thread again.

I'm sorry. I can't take this 'good faith' injection of why a good episode of television is actually really bad for nitpicky reasons from the usual youtube trash machine. You can choose not to like it all you want, but that doesn't make it actually bad. It was really really good. You're all two doors down fawning over a soap opera. Give me a break.
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Re: The Rings of Power

Post by Damselbinder »

Dogfish wrote: 4 months ago I'm talking about the dialogue, there's a lot of great stuff in there but I don't think the dialogue is necessarily it. And even the bits that are great are heavily diluted by the musical numbers, which it turns out don't work so well in book form.
Not all of them are as good as each other - Tom Bombadil and his little ditties can eat my bum - but I don't agree at all with your blanket dismissal of the musical numbers. What better than song to craft a sense of culture? And at the best moments some of the songs are stirring, or moving, even as just the lyrics. Like Gimli's song about Durin, or the lament for the Rohirrim.
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Re: The Rings of Power

Post by Dogfish »

Damselbinder wrote: 4 months ago
Dogfish wrote: 4 months ago I'm talking about the dialogue, there's a lot of great stuff in there but I don't think the dialogue is necessarily it. And even the bits that are great are heavily diluted by the musical numbers, which it turns out don't work so well in book form.
Not all of them are as good as each other - Tom Bombadil and his little ditties can eat my bum - but I don't agree at all with your blanket dismissal of the musical numbers. What better than song to craft a sense of culture? And at the best moments some of the songs are stirring, or moving, even as just the lyrics. Like Gimli's song about Durin, or the lament for the Rohirrim.
That's true I guess, and the sense of culture was Tolkien's goal. But that didn't make the books the most streamlined reading. Which is fine, in a way, point I'm getting at is the dialogue and the pacing are things that have had criticism of the show thus far, and to be honest it's the dialogue and the pacing which, for their faults (because of them even) have felt most natural to the source material.
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Re: The Rings of Power

Post by shevek »

Apologies, but I just could not resist, after seeing this topic brought up in a Dave Cullen video.

A billion dollar TV show creates a crowd shot by copy-pasting a small group of actors three or four times each.
Immediately discernible - just use your Where's Waldo skills. It doesn't take One Ring to find them!
rings of power crowd.jpg
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Re: The Rings of Power

Post by Evil Spider »

shevek wrote: 4 months ago
A billion dollar TV show creates a crowd shot by copy-pasting a small group of actors three or four times each.
They should have tripled their billion.
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Re: The Rings of Power

Post by Dogfish »

shevek wrote: 4 months ago Apologies, but I just could not resist, after seeing this topic brought up in a Dave Cullen video.

A billion dollar TV show creates a crowd shot by copy-pasting a small group of actors three or four times each.
Immediately discernible - just use your Where's Waldo skills. It doesn't take One Ring to find them!

rings of power crowd.jpg
Imagine hating a show so much you're picking through freeze frames of crowd scenes for duplicates. Especially when this kind of effect has been standard practice for years. Because we have been, and still are, in a pandemic. A pandemic which if it gets out among the cast can stick weeks on production. So do you film a show with a hundred extras breathing and sneezing on each other or do it with twenty and some effects that nobody except a weirdo on social media is going to notice?


If I hate a show, I don't watch it. I don't watch any of it, I don't watch it frame by frame looking for moments when special effects are used.

There was a sea monster in one of the earlier episodes too, and you know what, I don't think that was real either.
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Re: The Rings of Power

Post by Maskripper »

After the first episodes, I thought the new GoT TV show was more interesting for me than the new LotR TV show.
But that has changed a LOT in the last weeks.
Episode 6 here was a great action battle spectacle and so much fun.... while GoT has barely any action and only drama to offer (and the big time jump wasn't good for the show...in my opinion).
I am very thrilled for the next 2 episodes of this season after the show is now at full speed... (#slow start)
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Re: The Rings of Power

Post by NotUv2 »

The latest Rings of Power episode was interesting and moved the needle forward in fascinating ways, especially on The Stranger's story with the Harfoots. (And who are those eldritch Sauron-followers chasing him? They're cool as hell and really frightening.) It might have felt like "filler" to some, but I think the gathering dramas are all interesting and I feel like the show is going to deliver some real pay-off down the line.

Some stuff was a wee bit on-the-nose, like the shot we get of Durin's Bane near the end. Still, I thought it was quite cool, on the whole.
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Re: The Rings of Power

Post by Dogfish »

NotUv2 wrote: 4 months ago The latest Rings of Power episode was interesting and moved the needle forward in fascinating ways, especially on The Stranger's story with the Harfoots. (And who are those eldritch Sauron-followers chasing him? They're cool as hell and really frightening.) It might have felt like "filler" to some, but I think the gathering dramas are all interesting and I feel like the show is going to deliver some real pay-off down the line.

Some stuff was a wee bit on-the-nose, like the shot we get of Durin's Bane near the end. Still, I thought it was quite cool, on the whole.
Yeah the Sauron gang are an odd bunch. Nasty with it. They didn't have to do the Harfoots like that. Interesting that they didn't kill them, though I wonder if maybe they assumed that they had, or if they simply didn't care beyond the simple act of sadistic pleasure from wrecking their homes.

It's weird, for as bad as things have gone so far, it doesn't feel like a grimdark sort of show, but have to think that with what remains to happen it might feel that way. Although I guess there will be a huge win over Sauron gained by the end, and the victory and loss of the one ring will lead to a fairly ridiculously long period of peace and prosperity. And then it all goes sideways again of course, but that's Lord of the Rings territory.
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