Superman and Lois Season 2 (CW)

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Superman and Lois Season 2 (CW)

Post by shevek »

First two episodes of Superman and Lois Season 2 are out.

What did everyone think?

BTW: You don't have to read my spoiler comments if you don't want to. So don't complain once you open the spoiler box.
Spoiler

So far we don't get any new villains, just Tal. But something mysterious underground is going to be a new threat. Any guesses as to
whom that is? (We only see a vague armored-looking silhouette so far).

Some things are concerning for me, however.

1) There's a bubbling plot about Lois' journalistic integrity being called into question from a story back in "2016". In essence, it's a commentary on how the Internet never lets things go away, and you can be challenged and cancelled at any moment for something you did or said ten years ago, especially if it's brought back up on a "podcast" that goes "viral". That's topical, even if those very buzzwords do seem a little 2016 themselves.

But I'm interested more in the reference they made to the cult leader that Lois wrote about: her name is "Ally Austin", and how is that NOT a direct reference to Allison Mack? I don't see any media reviews outlets picking up on this yet, but it seems pretty obvious to me.

2) Why randomly throw in that Natalie Irons is "vegan"? They've set up a situation where there's almost no way that Natalie can simply sit down and have a normal breakfast scene with the Kents. (I am very familiar with the way vegans act, having lived in Hipster Central for decades.) In a future episode, Lois will have to say "look, I made this especially for you, Natalie" and then that moment will help them bond as interdimensional not-daughter/not-mother (which is weird enough).

Compound this with Chipotle running ads for "plant-based chorizo" pretty much in every CW commercial break, and their catchphrase is "For Vegans. For Everyone." Whether or not it bothers you that 2% of the population is controlling 100% of the narrative on media outlets like The CW, ask another question: what does making Natalie vegan do for the plot or for developing her character? Why include it?

3) Finally, we've got Sarah suddenly coming out as bisexual. She "kissed a girl and liked it" in summer camp. Nothing unusual about that (at least not for four generations since the free-love movement) although it would have been nice in this situation to show and not just tell. But why is that a problem? If the fling was over and meant nothing (which Sarah claims) then why not just tell Jordan about it, and then just go back to smooching Beta Boy? I mean, it's Current Year, and Jordan isn't exactly sheltered. He's got the Internet, and he knows how these things go. Buck up, young man, and take her back with gusto! (And maybe a bit of advice from Jon.)
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Re: Superman and Lois Season 2 (CW)

Post by Mr. X »

Spoiler
shevek wrote: 8 months ago2) Why randomly throw in that Natalie Irons is "vegan"? They've set up a situation where there's almost no way that Natalie can simply sit down and have a normal breakfast scene with the Kents. (I am very familiar with the way vegans act, having lived in Hipster Central for decades.) In a future episode, Lois will have to say "look, I made this especially for you, Natalie" and then that moment will help them bond as interdimensional not-daughter/not-mother (which is weird enough).
This bugged me too. Or the fact she couldn't just this one time just eat.

The kiss was also kind of dumb. Meh so what. Jordan should be happy it wasn't a guy.

I think Jon will be doing some Scooby Dooing and finding out how that kid is bench pressing 300lbs. Even a coach should be questioning that. One plot I'd like to see is Jon is slowly degenerating. That being part kryptonian isn't all good. That unlike Jordan, he is slowly getting less bone density and strength.

Also getting tired of the k-x plot giving everyone powers. But the thing I love about the show is Superman does things. He saves a submarine without caring who's in it. Unlike Supergirl who you rarely saw just up and save something.
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Re: Superman and Lois Season 2 (CW)

Post by Imagineer »

That's our shevek.
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Re: Superman and Lois Season 2 (CW)

Post by Bert »

Yeah, I too miss the good 'ol days when men were men and sheep were nervous.
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Re: Superman and Lois Season 2 (CW)

Post by tallyho »

I cant get used to Superman with a permanent 5 o'clock shadow. To me he looks like a poor man's Bruce Campbell.
His acting is ok but he just doesnt quite tick the box for me.
Cant stand the longer haired kid character though, hes just a twat.
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Re: Superman and Lois Season 2 (CW)

Post by Mr. X »

tallyho wrote: 8 months ago I cant get used to Superman with a permanent 5 o'clock shadow. To me he looks like a poor man's Bruce Campbell.
His acting is ok but he just doesnt quite tick the box for me.
Cant stand the longer haired kid character though, hes just a twat.
Yes I was thinking that as well with the beard. Of course shaving is a bitch for him, probably involves a lot of heat vision.
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Re: Superman and Lois Season 2 (CW)

Post by Mr. X »

Steel's daughter is getting really annoying.
Spoiler
Special diet, always getting feelings hurt, insulted by everything, no consideration for anyone, fairly ungrateful, treats the boys like they are keeping her out, guilt tripping Supes even though Steel chose to use a mostly depowered suit. On top of Vegan my guess is she needs gluten free, fat free and low sodium. Supes never asked Steel to join the fight and he can't do everything. The two boys are calm in comparison.

Hate to say it but I'm hoping for that very special episode where she parts ways hopefully by eating bacon.
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Re: Superman and Lois Season 2 (CW)

Post by Danorian »

Mr. X wrote: 7 months ago Steel's daughter is getting really annoying.
Spoiler
Special diet, always getting feelings hurt, insulted by everything, no consideration for anyone, fairly ungrateful, treats the boys like they are keeping her out, guilt tripping Supes even though Steel chose to use a mostly depowered suit. On top of Vegan my guess is she needs gluten free, fat free and low sodium. Supes never asked Steel to join the fight and he can't do everything. The two boys are calm in comparison.

Hate to say it but I'm hoping for that very special episode where she parts ways hopefully by eating bacon.
I'm waiting for Natasha and the boys to figure out they're sorta half-siblings! :ohmg:

It IS nice to see them using the same actress for Lucy Lane from the Supergirl series. Looks like Crisis REALLY fucked up her personal history though. She's no longer and Army vet and corporate lawyer like she was in season one of Supergirl, and now a poor, deluded cult member. :sad:

Still doesn't answer if this is the new Earth-Prime since there has been NO mentioning of any other heroes/heroines in this series. If it is supposed to be Earth-Prime though, I call bullshit since Kara would've been able to hear those ultrasonic signalers Sam Lane and Lois had been using. Would be cool to see the boys' responses to finding out their aunt is Supergirl though.
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Re: Superman and Lois Season 2 (CW)

Post by Mr. X »

Speaking of hearing...
Spoiler
How did the military and the super triplets know where Bizarro was? Even Supes didn't know and he was having visions. Also would be cool if Bizarro's name was Orrazib but he says everything backward.
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Re: Superman and Lois Season 2 (CW)

Post by shevek »

Mr. X wrote: 7 months ago Orrazib
Not found on Comicvine - name is up for grabs. Mind if I use it for a villain down the line? Maybe he fights Namrepus! :)

Anyway, this Episode 4 was interesting.

Almost everything I'm going to say is not exactly integral to the plot so I think I'm OK:

1) What's with the incredibly generic posters in Lucy's spare room: "Andromeda Galaxy", "Drums", "Space Adventure"? The only thing they were missing was the "Hang In There!" cat. Who has posters as bland as that hanging anywhere in their house? No wonder Lucy felt so empty inside that she needed a cult to boost her self-esteem. :)

2) Obviously, someone on the show staff Googled "what's the world's biggest salt flat?" and then took some nice shots of it from the Internet to create a green-screen fighting zone. Well, at least we all learned something new in geography today: "Salar De Uyuni" is in Bolivia (smack dab in the Andes, actually). Next week, they'll probably fight in the Danakil Depression.

3) What's with a solid white-bread family in the middle of Buttfrack Kansas, who never spoke a word of Spanish for 15 episodes, suddenly being "re-identified" as Latino when they have the last names "Cushing" and "Lang", while Emanuelle Chriqui is 'browner' than the both of them put together (she's literally Moroccan). So Inde Navarette had a Mexican father, and Erik Valdez is half-Mexican as well..so what? Their names are SARAH and KYLE. But suddenly someone in the CW Exec suites said, "Uh..hey guys...I know this will look totally awkward and out of place to our viewers, but we just realized, after denying a qualified black man the chance to become mayor of Nowheresville, that we need more diversity on this show, so could you please drop a few words of Spanish here and there like 'mijita' and 'quinceañera', plus one line of diner booth dialogue that needs subtitles? Kthxbi!"

And this one needs to be behind the spoiler button, I think:
Spoiler
This episode is the setup for Natalie, aka Natasha Irons from the comics, to become Steel. Come on, everybody (especially Maskripper), say it with me:
John: "The suit is literal perfection!"
Nat: "It will be...when it fits a vegan."

Ha, gotcha!
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Re: Superman and Lois Season 2 (CW)

Post by dragontigerandhorse1985 »

Mr. X wrote: 7 months ago Speaking of hearing...
Spoiler
How did the military and the super triplets know where Bizarro was? Even Supes didn't know and he was having visions. Also would be cool if Bizarro's name was Orrazib but he says everything backward.
M X, you and Shevek have lost me as to how this relates to Superman and Lois.
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Re: Superman and Lois Season 2 (CW)

Post by Mr. X »

dragontigerandhorse1985 wrote: 7 months ago
Mr. X wrote: 7 months ago Speaking of hearing...
Spoiler
How did the military and the super triplets know where Bizarro was? Even Supes didn't know and he was having visions. Also would be cool if Bizarro's name was Orrazib but he says everything backward.
M X, you and Shevek have lost me as to how this relates to Superman and Lois.
The post you quoted of me specifically asks a question about the show. How is that "losing" you? Someone told me offline the answer.
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Re: Superman and Lois Season 2 (CW)

Post by Maskripper »

Yeah, still watching the show even it got a little boring to me lately.
Especially the whole "Lois and her sister" drama.
Also, the show could use a little bit of sex appeal at least. I mentioned in the past that I think the actress for Lois is way too old.
And her clothing sadly fits a mother with 2 children (no sex appeal at any time).
Same goes for every other woman here, can't remember that any woman in this show was wearing anything remotely sexy at any time.
Is the costume department on this show led by the Amish people? :giggle:


*EDIT*: I forgot about Lois's boss. She was wearing some somehow nice outfits here and there. But she also has the most unattractive haircut possible (helmet cut with hair above the forehead) and isn't exactly a hot one.
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Re: Superman and Lois Season 2 (CW)

Post by Mr. X »

Maskripper wrote: 7 months ago Yeah, still watching the show even it got a little boring to me lately.
Especially the whole "Lois and her sister" drama.
Also, the show could use a little bit of sex appeal at least. I mentioned in the past that I think the actress for Lois is way too old.
And her clothing sadly fits a mother with 2 children (no sex appeal at any time).
Same goes for every other woman here, can't remember that any woman in this show was wearing anything remotely sexy at any time.
Is the costume department on this show led by the Amish people? :giggle:


*EDIT*: I forgot about Lois's boss. She was wearing some somehow nice outfits here and there. But she also has the most unattractive haircut possible (helmet cut with hair above the forehead) and isn't exactly a hot one.
On that too the Lois actress to me is not attractive. In fact she has a wandering eye which is kind of off putting. Now Lana Lang actress is appealing. She has that Mary Ann from gilligans island vibe to her at least for me.

I thought this show was going to be Supergirl with Superman just taking a back seat to a bunch of drama but its kind of went the other way and Lois does nothing at all. And yes the show has NO sex appeal. Even the female Superman agent wasn't great.
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Re: Superman and Lois Season 2 (CW)

Post by bushwackerbob »

Superman & Lois is my favorite CW show right now. I love Tulloch's Lois and Hoechlin's Clark has grown on me from the first episode. I appreciate the family and the teen angst aspect of the show, it gives the show a quality unique to the other Arrowverse series. While I admit I enjoy seeing beautiful babes on TV as much as everybody else, the most important part in these series is getting good, compelling, and talented actors. If I want beautiful babes on TV, my DVD's of Baywatch are lying around my place somewhere, but I expect a higher level of acting for Superman & Lois. The show is a superhero show wrapped around a family dynamic, which I think is cool. Yes, recasting Kyle and Lana's family as Latino is bizarre, and I do roll my eyes as to why the execs do these silly things, it does not take away from my enjoyment of the series.
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Re: Superman and Lois Season 2 (CW)

Post by Mr. X »

bushwackerbob wrote: 7 months ago Superman & Lois is my favorite CW show right now. I love Tulloch's Lois and Hoechlin's Clark has grown on me from the first episode. I appreciate the family and the teen angst aspect of the show, it gives the show a quality unique to the other Arrowverse series. While I admit I enjoy seeing beautiful babes on TV as much as everybody else, the most important part in these series is getting good, compelling, and talented actors. If I want beautiful babes on TV, my DVD's of Baywatch are lying around my place somewhere, but I expect a higher level of acting for Superman & Lois. The show is a superhero show wrapped around a family dynamic, which I think is cool. Yes, recasting Kyle and Lana's family as Latino is bizarre, and I do roll my eyes as to why the execs do these silly things, it does not take away from my enjoyment of the series.
I don't know.... Hoechlin is pretty ripped and wears a skin tight suit and they don't down play that at all. Just saying its OK to have some female eyecandy that doesn't look like they shop at Good will.
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Re: Superman and Lois Season 2 (CW)

Post by Maskripper »

bushwackerbob wrote: 7 months ago ....
If I want beautiful babes on TV, my DVD's of Baywatch are lying around my place somewhere, but I expect a higher level of acting for Superman & Lois. The show is a superhero show wrapped around a family dynamic, which I think is cool.
.....
There is no need to jump to the other extreme (Baywatch) in terms of sexyness.
I would just like if there would be at least a minimum of sexyness in this one, that would be fine with me.
I mean if you compare this show to any other CW superhero show in terms of sexy women or women wearing anything remotely sexy....this show finishes last by far.
Supergirl had quite a lot of sexyness in the early seasons, Iris had some great outfits in the Flash (in the early seasons), several women in Batwoman are sexy and/or dress sexy sometimes.....etc.
And here it's just so.....amish....

I mean, especially if you compare this Lois Lane to the other ones.... in TV shows.
Just a little (extreme) reminder:

:w00t:

Yeah, I get it, this is the old(er) "mother of 2" version with her husband, but then you could at least have some other characters....with some ...optical appeal :whistle:
It's just one aspect, but it just was a very obvious one to me in comparison to other TV shows.
And yeah, maybe an aspect that is more important to me than for others.
---

Ok, back to the show as there are plenty of other aspects as I watch the show every week for its interesting aspects.
I hope for more Superman action in future episodes and I wouldn't mind having a nice villainess in it either. Lois can get on vacation for some weeks ... ;)
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Re: Superman and Lois Season 2 (CW)

Post by bushwackerbob »

Maskripper wrote: 7 months ago
bushwackerbob wrote: 7 months ago ....
If I want beautiful babes on TV, my DVD's of Baywatch are lying around my place somewhere, but I expect a higher level of acting for Superman & Lois. The show is a superhero show wrapped around a family dynamic, which I think is cool.
.....
There is no need to jump to the other extreme (Baywatch) in terms of sexyness.
I would just like if there would be at least a minimum of sexyness in this one, that would be fine with me.
I mean if you compare this show to any other CW superhero show in terms of sexy women or women wearing anything remotely sexy....this show finishes last by far.
Supergirl had quite a lot of sexyness in the early seasons, Iris had some great outfits in the Flash (in the early seasons), several women in Batwoman are sexy and/or dress sexy sometimes.....etc.
And here it's just so.....amish....

I mean, especially if you compare this Lois Lane to the other ones.... in TV shows.
Just a little (extreme) reminder:

:w00t:

Yeah, I get it, this is the old(er) "mother of 2" version with her husband, but then you could at least have some other characters....with some ...optical appeal :whistle:
It's just one aspect, but it just was a very obvious one to me in comparison to other TV shows.
And yeah, maybe an aspect that is more important to me than for others.
---

Ok, back to the show as there are plenty of other aspects as I watch the show every week for its interesting aspects.
I hope for more Superman action in future episodes and I wouldn't mind having a nice villainess in it either. Lois can get on vacation for some weeks ... ;)
I am not saying there aren't any because sure, they are out there, but comparatively speaking, on broadcast network television there are very few drop dead gorgeous eye candy pretty ladies on network television anymore. I started noticing this startling lack of gorgeous ladies at about the 90's, the pickings are slim. There aren't a lot of Kaley Cuoco's running around anymore in Wonder Woman costumes anymore.

Before Superman & Lois started, I remember the producers did an interview, and their big goal was to break new ground, not just go over ground previously covered by previous iterations of Superman, the meet cute and sexual tension was already done on two shows, we see them married on another, and now on Superman & Lois, they are a parental unit. I suspect the producers goals is not to portray Lois as a sexual goddess for the gratification of comic strip fanboys. That is not the show the execs set out to do. Superman & Lois are the parents, and parents aren't supposed to be seen having sex in CW shows, the kids would think that is gross. This is the network after all that doesn't give a rats ass unless you are in that Holy grail, much sought after young demo. There are very few what I would call "sexy" shows on broadcast television anymore.
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Re: Superman and Lois Season 2 (CW)

Post by Mr. X »

Oh yeah! Durannce(sp?) was awesome! Plus she got into peril. Where's the Lois peril? I knock Batwoman but at least there's some nice costumes and even though everyone is LGBT there is some sex appeal.
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Re: Superman and Lois Season 2 (CW)

Post by Visitor »

You need to think about the age of Lois. Here you have a woman who met Superman in her mid 20s as an established reporter and now has twins in high school. That make her in her early 40s. Most woman at that age aren't the sexy versions in the previous shows that were much younger.

Sure Teri Hatcher from Lois and Clark show, is still hot, but they didn't use her or another actress that still looks that good.
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Re: Superman and Lois Season 2 (CW)

Post by bushwackerbob »

Visitor wrote: 7 months ago You need to think about the age of Lois. Here you have a woman who met Superman in her mid 20s as an established reporter and now has twins in high school. That make her in her early 40s. Most woman at that age aren't the sexy versions in the previous shows that were much younger.

Sure Teri Hatcher from Lois and Clark show, is still hot, but they didn't use her or another actress that still looks that good.
Agreed, that was not what the show was going for, they were looking for an older career driven mother of two, a more modern crusading reporter version of June Cleaver rather than some domestic goddess that landed the most powerful being in the universe. By design, this series is not Smallville or Lois & Clark.
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Re: Superman and Lois Season 2 (CW)

Post by Maskripper »

bushwackerbob wrote: 7 months ago
Agreed, that was not what the show was going for, they were looking for an older career driven mother of two, a more modern crusading reporter version of June Cleaver rather than some domestic goddess that landed the most powerful being in the universe. By design, this series is not Smallville or Lois & Clark.
Yeah, but there are other women in this show as well... not only Lois Lane.
As I said, I get that this is the "mother of 2" version.
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Re: Superman and Lois Season 2 (CW)

Post by Mr. X »

wow the fights are good in this. Bizarro vs Superman was well done. One thing is to contrast this show with Supergirl and how Supergirl could have been way better. With Superman they take the time to slowly develop the Bizarro character and introduce him. With Supergirl they toss in a clone for an episode or two. No build up. No overall season arch. They could have easily made Supergirl bizarro THE character for the season like they did the Russian Supergirl.
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Re: Superman and Lois Season 2 (CW)

Post by Danorian »

The Supergirl series didn't start using a seasonal big baddie until season 3 with Reign. OK, yes season 2 had Mon-El's Mom, but I'm not really counting her as she just showed up REALLY late in the season, and didn't get truly aggressive until the last couple eps of the season.
Pretty silly since Kara and Alex have a cure for a Bizarro!
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Re: Superman and Lois Season 2 (CW)

Post by shevek »

Huge budgetary cop-out in Episode 5:
Spoiler
There's a whole alternate dimension which Chrissy experienced while knocked out by the drug, and yet we don't get to see any of it - we take an entire universe for granted based on exposition alone. Really???
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Re: Superman and Lois Season 2 (CW)

Post by shevek »

Well...nobody's touched this thread in two months (really? a show about Superman and Lois Lane and nobody has an opinion?)
so with the advent of the latest episode, I'm happy to say that my previous statement has been proven wrong.

"Bizarro in a Bizarro World" does indeed take place almost entirely in the Bizarro universe, where people talk backwards and English is written backwards. The Earth is a cube (straight from the comics) and wait 'til you hear what's the deal with who's President!

Anyway, this was a great episode and really shows the potential of what superhero television can achieve with brilliant writing and today's level of effects technology. There are great fights, and an evil 'bad boy' version of Jon-El as Superboy (and no, he's not gay like in current DC Comics).

Of special note, since this is, after all, a superheroine forum, is the presence of Lana Lang as the Bizarro World's "Superwoman".
Unfortunately, her costume is extremely utilitarian and the farthest thing from sexy imaginable. But then, there are two scenes
which show the true sex-appeal potential of the mature-but-smoking-hot Emanuelle Chriqui: 1) her appearance as a "sexy barmaid"
in a Smallville honky-tonk saloon; and then 2) the marriage scene where she is wed to one of the members of El family (you'll have to watch it to see who) and appears in an incredible knockout black dress with push-up cleavage to die for. I guess we'll never get her in true spandex, but this episode is worth it just for those moments alone (I wish they'd had the temerity to also hire Melissa Benoist for a 'Bizarro Supergirl' cameo, but alas, it seems she may be done with superheroics).

Recommended! (And they're back to regular Earth for the exciting continuation of the Ally Alston saga).
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Re: Superman and Lois Season 2 (CW)

Post by Mr. X »

I loved the square earth. Yeah this show is fantastic. They also know what they are making so they make sure you get a serving of Superman-ish type stuff and not a whole episode of exposition. Plus it doesn't bog down on unnecessary drama but they do show a family falling apart and a form of drug addiction that ruins them. Bizzaro isn't bad, he's just not noble. Now it would be interesting to see if the Kents were fundamentally different in this world. Maybe both died before they could imprint noble attributes on Bizarro.
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Re: Superman and Lois Season 2 (CW)

Post by bushwackerbob »

shevek wrote: 4 months ago Well...nobody's touched this thread in two months (really? a show about Superman and Lois Lane and nobody has an opinion?)
so with the advent of the latest episode, I'm happy to say that my previous statement has been proven wrong.

"Bizarro in a Bizarro World" does indeed take place almost entirely in the Bizarro universe, where people talk backwards and English is written backwards. The Earth is a cube (straight from the comics) and wait 'til you hear what's the deal with who's President!

Anyway, this was a great episode and really shows the potential of what superhero television can achieve with brilliant writing and today's level of effects technology. There are great fights, and an evil 'bad boy' version of Jon-El as Superboy (and no, he's not gay like in current DC Comics).

Of special note, since this is, after all, a superheroine forum, is the presence of Lana Lang as the Bizarro World's "Superwoman".
Unfortunately, her costume is extremely utilitarian and the farthest thing from sexy imaginable. But then, there are two scenes
which show the true sex-appeal potential of the mature-but-smoking-hot Emanuelle Chriqui: 1) her appearance as a "sexy barmaid"
in a Smallville honky-tonk saloon; and then 2) the marriage scene where she is wed to one of the members of El family (you'll have to watch it to see who) and appears in an incredible knockout black dress with push-up cleavage to die for. I guess we'll never get her in true spandex, but this episode is worth it just for those moments alone (I wish they'd had the temerity to also hire Melissa Benoist for a 'Bizarro Supergirl' cameo, but alas, it seems she may be done with superheroics).

Recommended! (And they're back to regular Earth for the exciting continuation of the Ally Alston saga).
I am watching these episodes now. It feels as though the writers had a fine time writing to that Bizarro universe. The pool table with the square blocks instead of billiards balls was a nice touch. I wonder if these writers had extra time to conceive of Bizarro world and the accompanying subversive aspects of that world. There is a certain kind of majestic wonder Superman & Lois has that you just don't see in other Arrowverse shows.
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Re: Superman and Lois Season 2 (CW)

Post by bushwackerbob »

Sorry I am late to the party folks, but I just watched the finale. One line particularly caught my attention, it was when General Lane said Superman was the only superhero in their world. WTF? I thought that last Arrowverse crossover event took out those worlds, that all of the superheroes are under one umbrella now instead of being spread out over different versions of Earth. Did I miss something important? I can handle the lame conceit of Supergirl or other heroes not coming to the aid of one another when an Earth shattering event occurs, I can suspend disbelief and embrace the dramatic license of these shows for budgetary or creative reasons for these shows, but for an offhanded and unnecessary line by General Lane in that script, it feels like revisionist history, a complete rewrite of what has been played out, especially on the biggest stage of all, those umbrella crossover episodes.
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Re: Superman and Lois Season 2 (CW)

Post by Danorian »

bushwackerbob wrote: 2 months ago Sorry I am late to the party folks, but I just watched the finale. One line particularly caught my attention, it was when General Lane said Superman was the only superhero in their world. WTF? I thought that last Arrowverse crossover event took out those worlds, that all of the superheroes are under one umbrella now instead of being spread out over different versions of Earth. Did I miss something important? I can handle the lame conceit of Supergirl or other heroes not coming to the aid of one another when an Earth shattering event occurs, I can suspend disbelief and embrace the dramatic license of these shows for budgetary or creative reasons for these shows, but for an offhanded and unnecessary line by General Lane in that script, it feels like revisionist history, a complete rewrite of what has been played out, especially on the biggest stage of all, those umbrella crossover episodes.
I just finished watching the season finale myself, and after hearing about how the series was set in another universe, explaining away no other heroes out to help Supes, was intently listening for any statement leaning towards that. I never heard that myself, beyond that small bit from General Lane. They couldn't even have Henry Irons says that he discovered it during his transdimensional explorations? He is their local genius/science guy after all.
I agree, it's just a lame cop-out by the writers. Why bother with their version of CoIE then? At least they didn't kill Supergirl again.

My 2 cents.
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Re: Superman and Lois Season 2 (CW)

Post by Danorian »

bushwackerbob wrote: 2 months ago Sorry I am late to the party folks, but I just watched the finale. One line particularly caught my attention, it was when General Lane said Superman was the only superhero in their world. WTF? I thought that last Arrowverse crossover event took out those worlds, that all of the superheroes are under one umbrella now instead of being spread out over different versions of Earth. Did I miss something important? I can handle the lame conceit of Supergirl or other heroes not coming to the aid of one another when an Earth shattering event occurs, I can suspend disbelief and embrace the dramatic license of these shows for budgetary or creative reasons for these shows, but for an offhanded and unnecessary line by General Lane in that script, it feels like revisionist history, a complete rewrite of what has been played out, especially on the biggest stage of all, those umbrella crossover episodes.
I just finished watching the season finale myself, and after hearing about how the series was set in another universe, explaining away no other heroes out to help Supes, was intently listening for any statement leaning towards that. I never heard that myself, beyond that small bit from General Lane. They couldn't even have Henry Irons says that he discovered it during his transdimensional explorations? He is their local genius/science guy after all.
I agree, it's just a lame cop-out by the writers. Why bother with their version of CoIE then? At least they didn't kill Supergirl again.

My 2 cents.
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Re: Superman and Lois Season 2 (CW)

Post by Mr. X »

Well I think everyone understands these characters are just isolated. No one helps Batwoman and no one comes in and helps Flash. Heck Superman could just clean up Gotham City in a week.

I actually like its a world with only Supes. The only thing that bugs me is that this all occurs in Smallville and you'd think everyone would figure out Clark is Superman. Heck no one sees someone fly away at the Kent ranch.
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Re: Superman and Lois Season 2 (CW)

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I thought back in the pilot episode they mentioned Supergirl. But the Arrowverse writers are generally lazy about continuity,
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Re: Superman and Lois Season 2 (CW)

Post by bushwackerbob »

Mr. X wrote: 2 months ago Well I think everyone understands these characters are just isolated. No one helps Batwoman and no one comes in and helps Flash. Heck Superman could just clean up Gotham City in a week.

I actually like its a world with only Supes. The only thing that bugs me is that this all occurs in Smallville and you'd think everyone would figure out Clark is Superman. Heck no one sees someone fly away at the Kent ranch.
They were isolated, until the last Arrowverse crossover event where the other worlds were destroyed, and the rest of the heroes were consolidated onto the same universe. I can understand for budgetary and logistical reasons why other heroes don't help out, that is a case where I am willing to suspend disbelief and go along with the story without complaint, but to hear Sam Lane say "Superman is the only hero we have" in a line in a script that did not further along or advance the plot, well, you are basically telling folks who invested in that gigantic, heavily promoted crossover event where we saw heroes die in every world except our own, you are essentially telling folks to disregard and forget that little footnote in Arrowverse history. I don't necessarily need Supergirl or the Flash to show up on Superman & Lois for continuity, but for goodness sakes, let's not pretend that crossover event never happened! They showed a friggin Hall of Justice in that crossover event with chairs for everyone at the end of the last episode, all of the heroes newly integrated into this single world, what happened to that, did these writers forget that huge game changing plot point, or are they just ignoring it because writing Superman as sole protector is easier and more convenient for their stories? Lazy writing.
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Re: Superman and Lois Season 2 (CW)

Post by DrDominator9 »

I don't think it's lazy, I think it's a conscious decision to retcon the whole series like they do in the world of comics every so often. And maybe they had an inkling that the CW was crumbling around them and figured it would be easier to save themselves. Do we really care if there are no more crossovers?
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Re: Superman and Lois Season 2 (CW)

Post by bushwackerbob »

DrDominator9 wrote: 2 months ago I don't think it's lazy, I think it's a conscious decision to retcon the whole series like they do in the world of comics every so often. And maybe they had an inkling that the CW was crumbling around them and figured it would be easier to save themselves. Do we really care if there are no more crossovers?
If the writers wanted to retcon the series and undo what was done in the last crossover, it might have been a nice idea for the producers to come out and do press and interviews addressing that universe mythology 180, announcing that Superman & Lois are no longer connected to that Arrowverse group of shows. Perhaps they did address the show disassociating themselves from that group of shows, but I am unaware if they had done so. Very shabbily done.
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Re: Superman and Lois Season 2 (CW)

Post by bushwackerbob »

I suppose I answered my own question. I went digging in an Arrowverse Wiki page and found this little nugget. "Superman & Lois exist in their own alternate universe, separate from Earth Prime in the new multiverse". I wish I had known that before, that fact ought to have been addressed more prominently before the series debut.
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Re: Superman and Lois Season 2 (CW)

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The showrunner's explanation on why S&L isn't part of the Arrowverse: https://tvline.com/2022/06/28/superman- ... interview/
Speaking with TVLine, showrunner Todd Helbing acknowledges, “From Day 1, there were questions of how we were connected to the Arrowverse. If you go back to the first script that got sent to Warner Brothers and DC, it had a lot of references to other heroes like The Flash. There were moments when we were shooting, and I think I’ve said this before, but there was a photo of Kara on Lois’ desk at the Daily Planet. All of that stuff got slowly pulled out, and the more we did that, the more it became a can of worms to even mention it.”

So, why didn’t we get this big speech sooner?

“DC and I had a conversation during Season 1, and the decision [to keep Superman & Lois separate] was made then, but I couldn’t make it public until the end of this season,” Helbing explains. “So when I got all these questions [in previous interviews], I knew what we were doing, but I could never talk about it. It got a little frustrating on my end, but I totally understand DC’s position. So this put that to rest. I’ve said from the beginning that we want to put our own stamp on the Superman property. This wasn’t meant to alienate us from the Arrowverse, but because a lot of the other shows are sadly no longer going to be on the air, it felt like the right thing to do.”

While this Superman is aware of the multiverse, as established in Episode 7 of Season 1, “we have to think about this as a separate Superman, a doppelganger of the one who was in the Arrowverse,” Helbing says. “I understand why everyone has been wanting the references, but it would have felt wrong.”

(In other words, don’t hold your breath for any big crossovers in the near future. Or ever.)

As for the John Diggle we saw at the end of the Season 2 finale, he’s also — you guessed it — not the same Diggle that spent eight seasons kicking butt on Arrow.

“This is also a new Diggle,” Helbing confirms. “David Ramsey had grown a beard and grew his hair out. He called me and said, ‘I’ve been growing my hair, I look different. Do you want me to shave and get a haircut?’ So not to add more confusion to it, but he’s a different Diggle.”
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Re: Superman and Lois Season 2 (CW)

Post by shevek »

I never thought it was the same universe as the other Arrowverse shows. First of all, there was a precedent for this: Black Lightning was a different universe, too..and it worked just fine as a show centered around a family of four, just like the Superman & Lois cast. Secondly, you can't put Superman with a family in Smallville and also have him be a part of a vast "superhero community". Uncle Flash and Auntie Supergirl would be popping by every few days, and that would just be too distracting from a setting which is supposed to be a drama on the prairie. So I was perfectly fine from the start with a self-contained situation where Superman was basically the only game in town, as long as the storytelling is strong, with lots of balanced family tones, and so far, it has been.
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Re: Superman and Lois Season 2 (CW)

Post by Mr. X »

Plus other heroes becomes a box of crayons in which everyone is "equal" and nobody is special, kind of what happened on Supergirl. The last season they would all show up like an action figure collection. Plus things became about all the side characters to the point Supergirl was just a guest.

Also Supergirl was in her own universe as well.
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Re: Superman and Lois Season 2 (CW)

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Re: Superman and Lois Season 2 (CW)

Post by helstar »

NOW it would be a good idea for this character to be female :D (no clue how they would explain that though, ok let's do the usual multiverse switch thing lol)
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Re: Superman and Lois Season 2 (CW)

Post by DrDominator9 »

A key character in the series. A shame to lose him. The writing on this series has been intriguing.
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Re: Superman and Lois Season 2 (CW)

Post by Mr. X »

They could kill him off.
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Re: Superman and Lois Season 2 (CW)

Post by shevek »

helstar wrote: 1 month ago NOW it would be a good idea for this character to be female :D (no clue how they would explain that though, ok let's do the usual multiverse switch thing lol)
Rather than turn him female, it's more likely they'll match up the new Jon's sexuality with how he is right now in the comics, but we'll see.
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Re: Superman and Lois Season 2 (CW)

Post by tallyho »

It's a shame it's him and not that annoying curly haired twat of a brother of his
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