Cartoon character cancelled

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Mr. X
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Re: Cartoon character cancelled

Post by Mr. X »

Remember when the right black balled people and cancelled people on the left back in the 1950s and 60s in the McCarthy era for their political views or for being gay? Remember how the left cried and cried about censorship and how unfair that was?
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Re: Cartoon character cancelled

Post by Femina »

ivandobsky wrote: 1 year ago
sneakly wrote: 1 year ago Remember, it is your right as a Christian to turn away gay wedding cakes, but god help you if rapey skunk (or Presidents) get cancelled. Just think of all those poor Christians that were unaware that PLP was being dragged behind the shed and double tapped....
eh? many appear to be making the assumption, that seems to me to be quite bizarre, that criticism of "cancel culture" is a demand that the state force individuals to "just bake the cake, bigot!".

People are simply saying that if people refuse to bake the cake, maybe they should get a cake from somewhere else. That's how free markets are supposed to work.
Isn't that already the reality? Gina Carano got 'cancelled' from Star Wars and was immediately picked up for some 'save Gina!!!' product from someone else? The truth basically boils down to the fact Cancel Culture is entirely in the hands of the corporate sphere. Things and people get cancelled when and if they violate the companies policies or mission statements. Is that really being cancelled? Or is it just like... you know... being fired.

The TERM cancel culture is mostly attack jargon to lay the blame for corporate decisions OUTSIDE the corporate sphere and accuse the nebulous 'they' of a crime.

Or in other words... CANCEL isn't quite 'smudged' yet... but I've got my eye on it.... might have to dust off my smudged words thread pretty soon.

Corporations don't cancel things JUST because some people are complaining about it either. If a corporation has measured the potential outcry likely to impact their monetary gains substantially enough, then you can pretty much kiss it goodbye... and assume that the reason it was cancelled regardless of the morality stated, is that the alternative threatened their bottom line.

If I have ONE shred of sympathy in this whole 'cancel culture' debacle, it's that I sort of do worry the way things being in the limelight affect the individual's ability to come to the right way of thinking on their own. It's a lot easier to say, accuse J.K. Rowling and boycot all her books since she's not made any substantial alteration of behavior over the past year or two since all of the hubaloo began... compare that to historically respected authors, J.R. Tolkien even might EASILY have been labeled at LEAST mildly racist or sexist... certainly a perspective or two that today would result in anger and boycots... but his own letters to and fro already document a man who came around to question the behavior of his youth and took steps to make amends... resulting in a man historically beloved (in the literary sphere).

I'm not saying anyone should or shouldn't boycot thing's if that's what they feel they need to do, you certainly should feel NO obligation to give a bigot the benefit of the doubt particularly when they're doubling down... I'm not even sure I see any sort of 'correct' solution here, I just fear The 'NOW! NOW! NOW!' of today sometimes might actually stunt people's ability to work shit out the right way and instead bitterly bunker down into further unhealthy behaviors and problematic views... thus is life I suppose... with every new technological discovery, we've got to reconfigure the entirety of how the human race is going to move on. :(
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Re: Cartoon character cancelled

Post by Damselbinder »

Femina wrote: 1 year ago
ivandobsky wrote: 1 year ago
sneakly wrote: 1 year ago Remember, it is your right as a Christian to turn away gay wedding cakes, but god help you if rapey skunk (or Presidents) get cancelled. Just think of all those poor Christians that were unaware that PLP was being dragged behind the shed and double tapped....
eh? many appear to be making the assumption, that seems to me to be quite bizarre, that criticism of "cancel culture" is a demand that the state force individuals to "just bake the cake, bigot!".

People are simply saying that if people refuse to bake the cake, maybe they should get a cake from somewhere else. That's how free markets are supposed to work.
Isn't that already the reality? Gina Carano got 'cancelled' from Star Wars and was immediately picked up for some 'save Gina!!!' product from someone else? The truth basically boils down to the fact Cancel Culture is entirely in the hands of the corporate sphere. Things and people get cancelled when and if they violate the companies policies or mission statements. Is that really being cancelled? Or is it just like... you know... being fired.

The TERM cancel culture is mostly attack jargon to lay the blame for corporate decisions OUTSIDE the corporate sphere and accuse the nebulous 'they' of a crime.

Or in other words... CANCEL isn't quite 'smudged' yet... but I've got my eye on it.... might have to dust off my smudged words thread pretty soon.
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Re: Cartoon character cancelled

Post by bushwackerbob »

Heroine Addict wrote: 1 year ago Fill me in if I'm missing some vital detail of the Mumford thing. From a quick look at the story the key details appear to be:

1. Winston Marshall sent a tweet recommending Andrew Ngo's new book.
2. A Twitter shitshow ensued with people accusing him of supporting fascism.
3. The band and their manager asked him to leave.
4. He deleted all his tweets, apologized and left the band.

So it comes down to the rest of the group thinking that a vocal right-winger would be bad for business when they perceive much of their audience to be left-leaning. Does that sound like an accurate assessment?

Who are you blaming for Marshall's cancellation? The tweeting twats who argued with him? The band and their management who thought that his politics would be damaging? A sinister cabal of blue-haired student trolls being controlled by nefarious hidden academic and political forces?

Remember when The Dixie Chicks openly criticized George W. Bush and the Allied invasion of Iraq? How very odd that Country fans and Country radio stations reacted so badly to open criticism of a wartime Republican President. It's almost as if expressing particular political views is unwise if there's a chance of it alienating a fair proportion of your audience. Who woulda thunk it?

There's a very good reason why a lot of bands and artists refuse to discuss politics at all. Those that do risk it make a calculation that it will have a negligible effect on sales or even enhance sales.

In any business where you're engaging with clients/customers, it's generally considered bad practice to open a side discussion about politics, religion or sport. Unless, of course, you're extremely confident that the other party is on the same page as you and such a discussion will enhance rapport.
The political realities you describe are unfortunately true, I just wish that were not the case. One of my favorite artists is still Bruce Springsteen, and my love for him is in no way diminished by his liberal leanings. Same thing with brilliant actors such as Sean Penn, Robert DeNiro and others. I don't want to cancel those great artists, I just want to enjoy more of their fine work. I think what bothered some folks at the time is that the Dixie Chicks went to a foreign country and trashed the sitting president of their own country, and I don't think that played well with some people. Looking back on that episode now, it seems like a tremendous overreaction by country fans and the industry at large. I look back at times where celebrities such as Frank Sinatra and Don Rickles would perform at the Reagan Inauguration and get no blowback and wish we lived in less politicized and fanatical times, but alas, that is not the world in which we now live unfortunately. I actually had a liberal on FB tell me recently that live and let live is no longer viable in this day in age.
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Re: Cartoon character cancelled

Post by five_red »

Dazzle1 wrote: 1 year ago Another poll supporting Carano
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxObG659Sc0

If you watch the Ben Shapiro interview with Gina Carano, it is hard not to feel sympathetic towards her. She has said and tweeted some truly stupid and intensive things, repeatedly so, but it becomes clear from that interview that she's totally naive. She admits that she didn't have any interest in politics until 2020, had never voted, and it is very clear she has little or no knowledge of world history, events, or of the complexities of modern politics. She's not stupid, but I believe she grew up in a very conservative and closeted community. Seeing her lack of knowledge, her antics on twitter started to look like a deer wandering through a minefield. Everyone is assuming she's like Piers Morgan -- that she doesn't give a damn about offending people. The interview instead shows her as someone who is like a stranger in a foreign land, she hardly understands any of the culture or customs, and she's blundering into offensive mistake after mistake. (I think at one point she seems to admit that she had only a fuzzy idea of the Nazi's involvement in the Holocaust, until a PR person from Disney explained the history to her.)

My real concern is that Ben Shapiro is now clearly planning to use her has some kind of trophy in his campaign again cancel culture. He's apparently got her signed up to be at the centre of a documentary he's making on the topic. Can't help but feel that he's taking advantage of her. I mean the stuff she said was offensive, but it was likely more out of ignorance than wanting to join in a fight. Shapiro, on the other hand, is someone who definitely wants to engage in the fight.

R5
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Re: Cartoon character cancelled

Post by Heroine Addict »

Femina wrote: 1 year ago

Isn't that already the reality? Gina Carano got 'cancelled' from Star Wars and was immediately picked up for some 'save Gina!!!' product from someone else? The truth basically boils down to the fact Cancel Culture is entirely in the hands of the corporate sphere. Things and people get cancelled when and if they violate the companies policies or mission statements. Is that really being cancelled? Or is it just like... you know... being fired.

The TERM cancel culture is mostly attack jargon to lay the blame for corporate decisions OUTSIDE the corporate sphere and accuse the nebulous 'they' of a crime.

Or in other words... CANCEL isn't quite 'smudged' yet... but I've got my eye on it.... might have to dust off my smudged words thread pretty soon.
I'm wondering if we're supposed to believe that the people running multi-billion dollar corporations are just really, really gullible? After all, if the Cancel Culture narrative is to be believed, then Disney, WB and other huge businesses are caving in to a virtually non-existent demand from an insignificant group of people complaining in bad faith.

Even if we grant that a small number of SJWs has infiltrated the upper echelons of these corporations, shouldn't they have gone broke by now? Why are they still raking in billions of dollars? I thought if you went woke, you went broke?

Maybe George Soros is funding them and they only have a few actual customers?
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Re: Cartoon character cancelled

Post by Mr. X »

Heroine Addict wrote: 1 year ago
I'm wondering if we're supposed to believe that the people running multi-billion dollar corporations are just really, really gullible? After all, if the Cancel Culture narrative is to be believed, then Disney, WB and other huge businesses are caving in to a virtually non-existent demand from an insignificant group of people complaining in bad faith.
I've thought that too. Why are these people catered to. But then who can take whom to court? Even without the court issue is the bad press really all that damaging? Is it a case of over reacting? Is it a case of the upper managers are merely sympathetic to this extreme minority?

I also find it odd these companies cater to a demographic who literally buy nothing. Star Wars is a grand example of this. WHY did they appeal to a woke crowd who buy nothing and support nothing? The money is in the fan who buys the collectibles and gets all nerded up about the movie. And woke most certainly does not sell in China.

So I think its maybe due to the fact some of these small groups can sue and be heard in court and that most of the middle and upper middle managers are sympathetic to these messages because they have gravitated into these positions. Kind of like if a company slowly gets more and more conservative xtians into their company their pursuits will become conservative xtian.

It may also be due to lack of hunger and too much money. At Microsoft they got real lax and incorporated a lot of non-hungry agenda items that made no profit for the company. Only after a while did it sting enough to force change.

I do think the industry is changing but right now there isn't enough people who can stand up and say NO without being fired for doing so. Remember, for a long time people were scared to go against the conservative xtian grain in movies and TV shows well after the religious right dropped in power.
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Re: Cartoon character cancelled

Post by sugarcoater »

Heroine Addict wrote: 1 year ago
Femina wrote: 1 year ago

Isn't that already the reality? Gina Carano got 'cancelled' from Star Wars and was immediately picked up for some 'save Gina!!!' product from someone else? The truth basically boils down to the fact Cancel Culture is entirely in the hands of the corporate sphere. Things and people get cancelled when and if they violate the companies policies or mission statements. Is that really being cancelled? Or is it just like... you know... being fired.

The TERM cancel culture is mostly attack jargon to lay the blame for corporate decisions OUTSIDE the corporate sphere and accuse the nebulous 'they' of a crime.

Or in other words... CANCEL isn't quite 'smudged' yet... but I've got my eye on it.... might have to dust off my smudged words thread pretty soon.
I'm wondering if we're supposed to believe that the people running multi-billion dollar corporations are just really, really gullible? After all, if the Cancel Culture narrative is to be believed, then Disney, WB and other huge businesses are caving in to a virtually non-existent demand from an insignificant group of people complaining in bad faith.

Even if we grant that a small number of SJWs has infiltrated the upper echelons of these corporations, shouldn't they have gone broke by now? Why are still raking in billions of dollars? I thought if you went woke, you went broke?

Maybe George Soros is funding them and they only have a few actual customers?
For what it's worth, it costs nothing to stop airing a show or movie. People subscribe to Disney or Warner Bros. If an episode featuring a certain character no longer airs, it does not cost them money. Disney is trying to avoid cancelling some of their more significant movies while appeasing the woke mob. Their "warnings" and removal of movies from the children settings allows them to retain their property while temporarily appeasing the mob.

Corporations are kowtowing to the groups while still trying to make money. If there is no countering push, then it's logical for the corporations to bow to the mob. I believe they may be overreacting to the woke mob, but if it costs them little in doing so then perhaps it makes business sense. This is similar to the fake lawsuits brought against corporations: they assess the cost of lawyers and the possible bbad publicity, then decide whether to give in or fight the lawsuits. Sometimes it makes more sense to give in (which is unfortunate as that serves to only encourage more such lawsuits).

Cancel culture is 100% real. The extent of which may be debated. But for anyone suggesting it does not exist, I would venture to say that person sides with those doing the cancelling. It is admittedly hard to be objective when one is biased.
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Re: Cartoon character cancelled

Post by Dazzle1 »

Femina wrote: 1 year ago
ivandobsky wrote: 1 year ago
sneakly wrote: 1 year ago Remember, it is your right as a Christian to turn away gay wedding cakes, but god help you if rapey skunk (or Presidents) get cancelled. Just think of all those poor Christians that were unaware that PLP was being dragged behind the shed and double tapped....
eh? many appear to be making the assumption, that seems to me to be quite bizarre, that criticism of "cancel culture" is a demand that the state force individuals to "just bake the cake, bigot!".

People are simply saying that if people refuse to bake the cake, maybe they should get a cake from somewhere else. That's how free markets are supposed to work.
m

Regarding the cake example, the owners has to go to court because the Colorado czar wanted to punish them. The couple could have gone to another bakery, but want to show their superiority
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Re: Cartoon character cancelled

Post by ivandobsky »

Femina wrote: 1 year ago
Isn't that already the reality? Gina Carano got 'cancelled' from Star Wars and was immediately picked up for some 'save Gina!!!' product from someone else?
Sure. And it's people observing and talking about the corporate shenanigans who are providing a market, community or whatever that will incentivise better content providers to arise. Furthermore, people want to consume such products to stick it to the man, and out of respect for the people involved. I don't really like Star Wars outside of Mr Plinkett's reviews, and poo pooed Harry Potter, but give me my Gina Carano movies and JK Rowling books now. Yes queen etcetera.
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Re: Cartoon character cancelled

Post by Femina »

Mr. X wrote: 1 year ago
Heroine Addict wrote: 1 year ago
I'm wondering if we're supposed to believe that the people running multi-billion dollar corporations are just really, really gullible? After all, if the Cancel Culture narrative is to be believed, then Disney, WB and other huge businesses are caving in to a virtually non-existent demand from an insignificant group of people complaining in bad faith.
I've thought that too. Why are these people catered to. But then who can take whom to court? Even without the court issue is the bad press really all that damaging? Is it a case of over reacting? Is it a case of the upper managers are merely sympathetic to this extreme minority?

I also find it odd these companies cater to a demographic who literally buy nothing. Star Wars is a grand example of this. WHY did they appeal to a woke crowd who buy nothing and support nothing? The money is in the fan who buys the collectibles and gets all nerded up about the movie. And woke most certainly does not sell in China.

So I think its maybe due to the fact some of these small groups can sue and be heard in court and that most of the middle and upper middle managers are sympathetic to these messages because they have gravitated into these positions. Kind of like if a company slowly gets more and more conservative xtians into their company their pursuits will become conservative xtian.

It may also be due to lack of hunger and too much money. At Microsoft they got real lax and incorporated a lot of non-hungry agenda items that made no profit for the company. Only after a while did it sting enough to force change.

I do think the industry is changing but right now there isn't enough people who can stand up and say NO without being fired for doing so. Remember, for a long time people were scared to go against the conservative xtian grain in movies and TV shows well after the religious right dropped in power.
I think the irony is lost on you here? The corporation ISN'T catering to a small demographic that doesn't buy anything. If they did, then they'd be a non-entity. The corporation is catering to a LARGE demographic that consumes their shit or consumes other peoples shit. Cause that's all the corporate entity cares about. If you have any worry otherwise just look at the multitude of times American based corporations have ignored the complaints of American consumers whenever they get down to suck China's humongous economical &#$^.

If you find yourself pondering why a corporation is favoring a minority subgroup in their consumer base that holds no sway with their purchasing power... it's because you're almost certainly WRONG. They probably aren't as small a subgroup as you think they are, and are either already making purchases or else the corporation has hopes of CONVINCING them to make purchases. If you're further pondering why these things are happening suddenly now and not before, it's probably because previously these demographics WEREN'T making purchases (likely because many of them were in a worse financial space than the typical consumer, go figure)
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Re: Cartoon character cancelled

Post by Heroine Addict »

five_red wrote: 1 year ago
Dazzle1 wrote: 1 year ago Another poll supporting Carano
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxObG659Sc0

If you watch the Ben Shapiro interview with Gina Carano, it is hard not to feel sympathetic towards her. She has said and tweeted some truly stupid and intensive things, repeatedly so, but it becomes clear from that interview that she's totally naive. She admits that she didn't have any interest in politics until 2020, had never voted, and it is very clear she has little or no knowledge of world history, events, or of the complexities of modern politics. She's not stupid, but I believe she grew up in a very conservative and closeted community. Seeing her lack of knowledge, her antics on twitter started to look like a deer wandering through a minefield. Everyone is assuming she's like Piers Morgan -- that she doesn't give a damn about offending people. The interview instead shows her as someone who is like a stranger in a foreign land, she hardly understands any of the culture or customs, and she's blundering into offensive mistake after mistake. (I think at one point she seems to admit that she had only a fuzzy idea of the Nazi's involvement in the Holocaust, until a PR person from Disney explained the history to her.)

My real concern is that Ben Shapiro is now clearly planning to use her has some kind of trophy in his campaign again cancel culture. He's apparently got her signed up to be at the centre of a documentary he's making on the topic. Can't help but feel that he's taking advantage of her. I mean the stuff she said was offensive, but it was likely more out of ignorance than wanting to join in a fight. Shapiro, on the other hand, is someone who definitely wants to engage in the fight.

R5
The sad part is that Gina is well and truly burning her bridges with Disney. A few bad tweets can be forgotten about when the dust settles. (See James Gunn.) However, making a new career out of expressing public grievances with a former employer makes her pretty much unemployable by most big mainstream studios. She has relegated herself to the fringe.
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Re: Cartoon character cancelled

Post by Femina »

Heroine Addict wrote: 1 year ago The sad part is that Gina is well and truly burning her bridges with Disney. A few bad tweets can be forgotten about when the dust settles. (See James Gunn.) However, making a new career out of expressing public grievances with a former employer makes her pretty much unemployable by most big mainstream studios. She has relegated herself to the fringe.
That's what I've been saying! James Gunn was 'cancelled' and then it didn't matter anymore because rather than double down and whine that the world isn't fair and he should just be allowed to do and say whatever the hell he wants. He acknowledged his past mistakes, expressed convincing remorse for the inciting material, and just generally behaved like a mature adult human being who had grown past the thing that got him 'cancelled'.
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Re: Cartoon character cancelled

Post by Dazzle1 »

Heroine Addict wrote: 1 year ago
five_red wrote: 1 year ago
Dazzle1 wrote: 1 year ago Another poll supporting Carano
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxObG659Sc0

If you watch the Ben Shapiro interview with Gina Carano, it is hard not to feel sympathetic towards her. She has said and tweeted some truly stupid and intensive things, repeatedly so, but it becomes clear from that interview that she's totally naive. She admits that she didn't have any interest in politics until 2020, had never voted, and it is very clear she has little or no knowledge of world history, events, or of the complexities of modern politics. She's not stupid, but I believe she grew up in a very conservative and closeted community. Seeing her lack of knowledge, her antics on twitter started to look like a deer wandering through a minefield. Everyone is assuming she's like Piers Morgan -- that she doesn't give a damn about offending people. The interview instead shows her as someone who is like a stranger in a foreign land, she hardly understands any of the culture or customs, and she's blundering into offensive mistake after mistake. (I think at one point she seems to admit that she had only a fuzzy idea of the Nazi's involvement in the Holocaust, until a PR person from Disney explained the history to her.)

My real concern is that Ben Shapiro is now clearly planning to use her has some kind of trophy in his campaign again cancel culture. He's apparently got her signed up to be at the centre of a documentary he's making on the topic. Can't help but feel that he's taking advantage of her. I mean the stuff she said was offensive, but it was likely more out of ignorance than wanting to join in a fight. Shapiro, on the other hand, is someone who definitely wants to engage in the fight.

R5
Shapiro is also a victim of Cancel Culture where similar Woke fascists have had been barred speaking at colleges. Calling him a Nazi even though he is an orthodox Jews

Cancel culture is no different than in earlier generation blacks, Jews and Irish were not allowed into stores

Wake up!

The sad part is that Gina is well and truly burning her bridges with Disney. A few bad tweets can be forgotten about when the dust settles. (See James Gunn.) However, making a new career out of expressing public grievances with a former employer makes her pretty much unemployable by most big mainstream studios. She has relegated herself to the fringe.
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Re: Cartoon character cancelled

Post by Mr. X »

Femina wrote: 1 year ago
I think the irony is lost on you here? The corporation ISN'T catering to a small demographic that doesn't buy anything. If they did, then they'd be a non-entity. The corporation is catering to a LARGE demographic that consumes their shit or consumes other peoples shit. Cause that's all the corporate entity cares about. If you have any worry otherwise just look at the multitude of times American based corporations have ignored the complaints of American consumers whenever they get down to suck China's humongous economical &#$^.

If you find yourself pondering why a corporation is favoring a minority subgroup in their consumer base that holds no sway with their purchasing power... it's because you're almost certainly WRONG. They probably aren't as small a subgroup as you think they are, and are either already making purchases or else the corporation has hopes of CONVINCING them to make purchases. If you're further pondering why these things are happening suddenly now and not before, it's probably because previously these demographics WEREN'T making purchases (likely because many of them were in a worse financial space than the typical consumer, go figure)
I don't agree in this case. I've worked with a few large corporations and they do get into relaxed slumps where they make comfortable money or are riding a success and have lost hunger. Or the middle and upper middle management gets inundated with out of focus managers who seem more focused on their pet views than making selling products.

I think Disney is in such a state. They clearly did NOT pander to the popular market for Star Wars given the abysmal toy sales and support by fans. Sure the first movie(s) of the latest trilogy made money but only coasting on the Star Wars name. There is no vast market of woke people who buy action figures and spend money like rabid fans.

As for china yes we saw Disney alter content for China. Finn reduced on the chinese posters for example.

Large corporations are very very slow to respond to markets and worse they are slow to respond to employee creep of bad management. GM greatly suffered from this. I think you're making a huge assumption corporations of this size can very quickly make coarse corrections, which they cannot.


In fact we saw this in the comics industry. Writers and directors and managers of woke persuasion came in, content changed, the momentum of the product ran dry, sales plummeted, original fans did not like the new content and Marvel and DC were slow to respond. Comic book fans didn't magically change and woke people didn't buy products. Now DC and Marvel are responding. It didn't help that the movies kept them afloat. In fact that extra money allowed them to fail trying woke material.

Woke doesn't sell. Woke people don't by products and are not hyper fans.
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Re: Cartoon character cancelled

Post by ivandobsky »

Mr. X wrote: 1 year ago Woke doesn't sell. Woke people don't by products and are not hyper fans.
The soy consoomer is a meme with some truth to it. There are a fair few about. How many i don't really know.

There are plenty of naive consumers who will just buy what someone else told them was good though.

It could be that these companies are doing what's good for the bottom line, while simultaneously not making content optimised to appeal to the end user directly. There is a business pressure to kowtow to those with the power to manipulate the end user. Those who are "trusted" by Rotten Tomatoes, Metacritic etc, large websites, Google, governments etcetera.
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Re: Cartoon character cancelled

Post by sugarcoater »

Mr. X wrote: 1 year ago
I think Disney is in such a state. They clearly did NOT pander to the popular market for Star Wars given the abysmal toy sales and support by fans. Sure the first movie(s) of the latest trilogy made money but only coasting on the Star Wars name. There is no vast market of woke people who buy action figures and spend money like rabid fans.

As for china yes we saw Disney alter content for China. Finn reduced on the chinese posters for example.

Large corporations are very very slow to respond to markets and worse they are slow to respond to employee creep of bad management. GM greatly suffered from this. I think you're making a huge assumption corporations of this size can very quickly make coarse corrections, which they cannot.


In fact we saw this in the comics industry. Writers and directors and managers of woke persuasion came in, content changed, the momentum of the product ran dry, sales plummeted, original fans did not like the new content and Marvel and DC were slow to respond. Comic book fans didn't magically change and woke people didn't buy products. Now DC and Marvel are responding. It didn't help that the movies kept them afloat. In fact that extra money allowed them to fail trying woke material.

Woke doesn't sell. Woke people don't by products and are not hyper fans.
This article may connect to some of the points about Disney. It is a bit old, but the message seems apropos of this conversation:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/when-your- ... 1596664277
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Re: Cartoon character cancelled

Post by Mr. X »

Pay wall on the article :(
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Re: Cartoon character cancelled

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Go Woke! Gain 5.1 million Disney+ subscribers in a month, even after firing Gina Carano, cause Woke is money in the bank! Subscribers say: 'Gina Carano who?'

Variety - March 9, 2021:
"Disney Plus continues to grow apace, topping 100 million subscribers worldwide, Disney CEO Bob Chapek said Tuesday [March 9, 2021] during its annual shareholders meeting. That’s up from the 94.9 million Disney reported last month."
Shapiro is also a victim of Cancel Culture where similar Woke fascists have had been barred speaking at colleges. Calling him a Nazi even though he is an orthodox Jews

Cancel culture is no different than in earlier generation blacks, Jews and Irish were not allowed into stores

Wake up!
Shapiro is an opportunist whiner. Shapiro's Manbaby victim routine is just him pretending to be offended. He likes the fight. He likes to hate.

'Woke fascists!' No such thing. What there is is unwoke, comatose, forever asleep, propaganda believing and spewing, white supremacist fascists in red states trying to cancel certain people's ability to vote, with their red state racism anti voter laws. Whose caravan of fascism invaded the capital on Jan 6, tried to stage a coup and insurrection. Crazy goons who all deserve long stretches of jail time.

This Lepoo, Dr. Suess, Potato Head, Cancel Culture crap is just a distraction tactic. "Let's get people to talk about stupid stuff while we pull off the biggest cheats we can think of to get power back."

Wake up! You're asleep!
Cancel culture is no different than in earlier generation blacks, Jews and Irish were not allowed into stores
Well, the right did cancel Colin Kaepernick and he was black. Tried to cancel Obama. The right started the cancelling and never stopped. I do wonder why some on the left adopted the right's decade to centuries old methodology of cancelling (or trying to cancel) people.

Gina not totally cancelled tho. Opportunities await! She'll star soon, or someday, in Ben Shapiro action movie on Shapiro+ streaming service. That's the same as Disney+, right? Or is it the same as being cancelled!

And what's your lame bit about comparing fire vs rehire petitions numbers. That's whackadoo logic. I know you can't figure out why, but that's what it is.
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If U C Xmas tree on TV show
it's Xmas Activism! :christmas:

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it's Dark Haired Women Activism!

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Don't B indoctrinated!
Cover your eyes! & ears!
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Re: Cartoon character cancelled

Post by Femina »

Mr. X wrote: 1 year ago I don't agree in this case. I've worked with a few large corporations and they do get into relaxed slumps where they make comfortable money or are riding a success and have lost hunger. Or the middle and upper middle management gets inundated with out of focus managers who seem more focused on their pet views than making selling products.

I think Disney is in such a state. They clearly did NOT pander to the popular market for Star Wars given the abysmal toy sales and support by fans. Sure the first movie(s) of the latest trilogy made money but only coasting on the Star Wars name. There is no vast market of woke people who buy action figures and spend money like rabid fans.

As for china yes we saw Disney alter content for China. Finn reduced on the chinese posters for example.

Large corporations are very very slow to respond to markets and worse they are slow to respond to employee creep of bad management. GM greatly suffered from this. I think you're making a huge assumption corporations of this size can very quickly make coarse corrections, which they cannot.


In fact we saw this in the comics industry. Writers and directors and managers of woke persuasion came in, content changed, the momentum of the product ran dry, sales plummeted, original fans did not like the new content and Marvel and DC were slow to respond. Comic book fans didn't magically change and woke people didn't buy products. Now DC and Marvel are responding. It didn't help that the movies kept them afloat. In fact that extra money allowed them to fail trying woke material.

Woke doesn't sell. Woke people don't by products and are not hyper fans.
'Woke people' are just people, EASILY capable of being hyper fans, or not, as each individual chooses, and each follows their own individual buying habits. I'm pretty much, full stop, on that 'woke don't buy' garbage. Woke isn't even a real thing with accuracy enough to utilize as a demographic cause its a smudged term. 'Woke' means slightly different things to pretty much everybody, and thus collectively means pretty much nothing.

Moving on, which specific case are we talking about here? I've been observing the 'corporations should stop pandering to people who aren't buying their product!' for DECADES now in MANY cases. I get what you're saying, and I do not doubt at all the likelihood of situational cases of mismanagement... but to see what we're seeing right now we'd have to be accepting a miraculously foolish firework explosion of sudden 'corporate stupid' where EVERYONE is just mistaken and are all caving en masse to the slim numbered hipsters. That doesn't happen, it certainly wouldn't last for a DECADE if it did. The whole 'cancel culture' explosion we're seeing complained about right now is basically just the most recent phenomena to occur along a trend that's been churning this direction for at LEAST a decade. So yes, Disney made some key mistakes with Star Wars after purchasing it which only manifested midway between when they purchased the property to now, and only hit their sales between that midpoint and now, and are ALREADY course correcting. The 'cancel culture' war of 'caving to the minorities' is NOT new in the entertainment medium, and if it wasn't working somehow, somewhere, it wouldn't still be chugging along.

And Marvel!? Course correcting? Tell that to all the Youtube derps clamoring for the MCU's inevitable doom because so many of the films announced and coming out are based on characters in that period of 'wokeness' everybody likes to whine about. Why would they do that if they already have decades of information that it wasn't going to work? Countertheory. The demographic was never the problem, the stories were.
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Re: Cartoon character cancelled

Post by bushwackerbob »

One should not have to bend to the knee of cancel culture cultists in order to have a career. One thing that I heard said about 10-20 years ago that I have always remembered was that when one tries to compare Hitler or the Holocaust to anything in contemporary culture you can tell that person is off their rocker and unhinged. I just don't believe that those dumb comments are worth losing a gig over, a fireable offense. Yes, I think she should have walked those comments back, but I don't think being a stubborn ox and doubling down is a cancel culture worthy of being a purge target. I guess all of us come at this issue with opinions informed of our life experiences, and from my POV, that opinion is seen from the lens of being bullied as a kid, and that is how I see cancel culture, a bunch of like minded folks piling on and ganging up online to personally attack and harm their careers. To many, these folks are sharing their first amendment rights of free speech and air their displeasure at Carano's dumb comments, to me, it feels a lot like cyber bullying, punishing those who do not share these folks views. Where is the line crossed between airing one's thoughts online and making oneself heard and cyber bullying certain individuals to the extent that their ability to earn a living is compromised? In my own personal view, those folks that abide by that cancel culture purge style cyber bullying personal attacks are also in some sense condoning and endorsing the non social media real world instances of bullying and harassment of children and adults. That's just my take.
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Re: Cartoon character cancelled

Post by Femina »

bushwackerbob wrote: 1 year ago One should not have to bend to the knee of cancel culture cultists in order to have a career.
Lol. Cultists now? Give me a break. I suppose then, that you'd like to lobby your local representative to pass some legislations to command employers to retain their employees no matter what!
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Re: Cartoon character cancelled

Post by Heroine Addict »

People do understand that The Daily Wire is rabidly anti-porn, don't they? So next time little Ben and his goons are pretending to be against censorship, remember that they're only fighting for the rights of conspiracy theorist grifters to lie with impunity and the rights of children to laugh at dated caricatures of minorities. When it comes to material for us "degenerates", they would gladly see half of the producers on this forum locked-up. Ben's top goon Michael Knowles is particularly vocal about this.

So let's not pretend that Gina's new employers are free speech champions.
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Re: Cartoon character cancelled

Post by bushwackerbob »

Femina wrote: 1 year ago
bushwackerbob wrote: 1 year ago One should not have to bend to the knee of cancel culture cultists in order to have a career.
Lol. Cultists now? Give me a break. I suppose then, that you'd like to lobby your local representative to pass some legislations to command employers to retain their employees no matter what!
Unlike some folks, I don't look to the government to solve every issue or problem when they pop up. The kind of things said at my place of work would make what Gina Carano said sound like a love letter LOL!
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Re: Cartoon character cancelled

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Femina wrote: 1 year ago
bushwackerbob wrote: 1 year ago One should not have to bend to the knee of cancel culture cultists in order to have a career.
Lol. Cultists now? Give me a break. I suppose then, that you'd like to lobby your local representative to pass some legislations to command employers to retain their employees no matter what!

I think the point your missing is the left complained for a long time about being censored, blocked, excluded, no inclusion etc. In the McCarthy era it was a big deal blocking or black balling someone and labeling them communists or perverts. Now it appears the same people who complained for decades are now doing the blocking and banning and black listing. I would think the left would be the FIRST not to engage in such practices because they know its wrong.

What is all this "inclusion" talk? How can one have "diversity" when its just tokenism if the only included people all have the same views. That's exactly what the religious right did back in the day. "We have blacks - in our church. We have Asians - in our church". It was pretty obvious that it wasn't diversity given everyone thought the same.

I don't blame leftism per say. I blame the people who used to be on the right now moving to the left as the upper class. They caused this. This is not a left/right issue. Its always the upper class assuming any moral high ground to maintain control over the lower classes be that the past religious right or today's social justice.
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Re: Cartoon character cancelled

Post by Heroine Addict »

bushwackerbob wrote: 1 year ago
Femina wrote: 1 year ago
bushwackerbob wrote: 1 year ago One should not have to bend to the knee of cancel culture cultists in order to have a career.
Lol. Cultists now? Give me a break. I suppose then, that you'd like to lobby your local representative to pass some legislations to command employers to retain their employees no matter what!
Unlike some folks, I don't look to the government to solve every issue or problem when they pop up. The kind of things said at my place of work would make what Gina Carano said sound like a love letter LOL!
I dare say that your employment contract has various clauses about your conduct on and off the business premises. Most employment contracts do. While you and your colleagues may feel safe to say certain things among yourselves, I'm pretty sure that your bosses would take action if those conversations were overheard by clients. Likewise, posting similar comments on your social media accounts could be grounds for dismissal.

The social media accounts of public figures obviously face much more scrutiny than those of the rest of us. Gina would have been told this. Multiple times. Pretty much any employer can dismiss or refuse to rehire someone who shitposts on social media. There's no reason why Gina Carano should get special treatment.
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Re: Cartoon character cancelled

Post by bushwackerbob »

Heroine Addict wrote: 1 year ago
bushwackerbob wrote: 1 year ago
Femina wrote: 1 year ago
bushwackerbob wrote: 1 year ago One should not have to bend to the knee of cancel culture cultists in order to have a career.
Lol. Cultists now? Give me a break. I suppose then, that you'd like to lobby your local representative to pass some legislations to command employers to retain their employees no matter what!
Unlike some folks, I don't look to the government to solve every issue or problem when they pop up. The kind of things said at my place of work would make what Gina Carano said sound like a love letter LOL!
I dare say that your employment contract has various clauses about your conduct on and off the business premises. Most employment contracts do. While you and your colleagues may feel safe to say certain things among yourselves, I'm pretty sure that your bosses would take action if those conversations were overheard by clients. Likewise, posting similar comments on your social media accounts could be grounds for dismissal.

The social media accounts of public figures obviously face much more scrutiny than those of the rest of us. Gina would have been told this. Multiple times. Pretty much any employer can dismiss or refuse to rehire someone who shitposts on social media. There's no reason why Gina Carano should get special treatment.
I belong to a union, so I can basically say whatever the hell I want to my bosses LOL! Comparing contemporary politics to Hitler or Nazi Germany would not get me fired, of that much I am sure. Would it get me a whack on the head, maybe, but I would not lose my job over it. There was a guy for the Miami Heat that used an anti-Semitic slur, and the guy will be fined and suspended, but I am confident he will remain with the team. Gina Carano will not get that chance. She said something stupid, not racist, or anti-Semitical, just something stupid. That shouldn't cost someone their job. If every dope that posted something stupid online lost their job because of it, we would have an over 90% unemployment rate. Is that a road we really want to follow? I am sure if we did a deep dumpster dive into some of these cancel culture keyboard heroes social media posts, we could find stuff to get these dopes fired as well. Being a public figure should not mean that a well organized mob can get you fired for saying something stupid.
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Re: Cartoon character cancelled

Post by Bert »

shevek wrote: 1 year ago Here in Pittsburgh, there are thousands of both East Asians and South Asians mostly located in and around a specific university area (a couple of Asian university students actually played heroines in our series, and have done an incredible job) because we have a well-developed "Eds, Meds and Tech" sector in this region. I have never, and I mean *never*, heard of one single anti-Asian hate incident of any kind in our city. Not even reported by the two local leftist alternaweeklies (one of which proudly puts the term 'Woke Commie Rag' on its T-shirts and mugs), and you know they would run to hell and back with a story like that if they had one
(and I am on the e-mail list for both of those publications). Meanwhile, as you are probably aware, we unfortunately had one of the biggest anti-Semitic events in modern history. Compare and contrast, please.

So here's my take: This number is exaggerated, and the small number of attacks that do happen can often be attributed to street-criminal miscreants (regardless of race). What this organization is trying to do is to establish Asians, in the broadest sense, as "victims" in the United States the way that Jews have been. But this isn't the era of the Japanese internment camps. Various Asian empires and ethnic groups have been doing immeasurably worse things to each other for millennia (and are still doing it today, just ask the Uygurs or the Rohingya). Somehow, "Asians" are well aware of each other's differences, even if the AAPI is not. And who the heck knows what "shunning" even means, in an age where I see people purposefully avoid *everyone else* on the street because of covid while visible moving away from each other (This covid shunning action is magnified and 'performative' in hipster progressive areas, such as where I live, but if you go to the centrist/conservative suburbs, nobody cares and restaurants are packed).

The situation with anti-Semitism, however, is a lot more serious, and even this article says that it's moving away from just the triangle of hate from "far-left, far-right and radical Islamist" sources. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/ant ... in-decades Although the reason that Jews have been moving out of France for the past couple decades is pretty specific to Islamism. That's one reason why such companies over-react to such phenomena as Gina Carano, who is no way shape or form is even vaguely an anti-Semite. She is as sweet a person as can be.

We can keep arguing if you like, Bert, but I'd rather not.
Dude, even for you this is crazytown. I called you out for drastically underplaying the anti-Asian backlash in the States with actual data listing almost 3,000 incidents in 47 states. Your reply is a personal observation of a specific area of your city, extrapolated to the entire country. Do you get how crazy that sounds? Then we get antisemitism, Japanese internment camps, empires, Uygurs and Rohingya, hipsters, France, islamism and Gina Carano. Keep arguing? This isn't an argument, it's Wikipedia having a fever tantrum.
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Re: Cartoon character cancelled

Post by Mr. X »

Bert wrote: 1 year ago
Dude, even for you this is crazytown. I called you out for drastically underplaying the anti-Asian backlash in the States with actual data listing almost 3,000 incidents in 47 states.
Perpetrated by whom? The records are clear on who is doing most of those attacks and its not MAGA people or Trump supporters. By not looking at the demographics nobody is doing Asians a service. If the attackers were majority whites I think we'd be hearing about it big time and demanding action. I think the real underplaying is refusing to look at who are the attackers and if this is a hate crime.

BTW Jews in New York are having the same kinds of issues yet no one wants to talk about the majority attackers.
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Re: Cartoon character cancelled

Post by Dazzle1 »

theScribbler wrote: 1 year ago Go Woke! Gain 5.1 million Disney+ subscribers in a month, even after firing Gina Carano, cause Woke is money in the bank! Subscribers say: 'Gina Carano who?'

Variety - March 9, 2021:
"Disney Plus continues to grow apace, topping 100 million subscribers worldwide, Disney CEO Bob Chapek said Tuesday [March 9, 2021] during its annual shareholders meeting. That’s up from the 94.9 million Disney reported last month."
Shapiro is also a victim of Cancel Culture where similar Woke fascists have had been barred speaking at colleges. Calling him a Nazi even though he is an orthodox Jews

Cancel culture is no different than in earlier generation blacks, Jews and Irish were not allowed into stores

Wake up!
Shapiro is an opportunist whiner. Shapiro's Manbaby victim routine is just him pretending to be offended. He likes the fight. He likes to hate.

'Woke fascists!' No such thing. What there is is unwoke, comatose, forever asleep, propaganda believing and spewing, white supremacist fascists in red states trying to cancel certain people's ability to vote, with their red state racism anti voter laws. Whose caravan of fascism invaded the capital on Jan 6, tried to stage a coup and insurrection. Crazy goons who all deserve long stretches of jail time.

This Lepoo, Dr. Suess, Potato Head, Cancel Culture crap is just a distraction tactic. "Let's get people to talk about stupid stuff while we pull off the biggest cheats we can think of to get power back."

Wake up! You're asleep!
Cancel culture is no different than in earlier generation blacks, Jews and Irish were not allowed into stores
Well, the right did cancel Colin Kaepernick and he was black. Tried to cancel Obama. The right started the cancelling and never stopped. I do wonder why some on the left adopted the right's decade to centuries old methodology of cancelling (or trying to cancel) people.

Gina not totally cancelled tho. Opportunities await! She'll star soon, or someday, in Ben Shapiro action movie on Shapiro+ streaming service. That's the same as Disney+, right? Or is it the same as being cancelled!

And what's your lame bit about comparing fire vs rehire petitions numbers. That's whackadoo logic. I know you can't figure out why, but that's what it is.

Here is the difference between Carano and Kaepernick

Kaepernick expressed his views during the time when he was performing his job. He was forcing his views on the rest of his employees, his employers and the customer(fans) weather they wanted to hear it or not

Carano expressed her views during her off time from working for Disney
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Re: Cartoon character cancelled

Post by Dazzle1 »

bushwackerbob wrote: 1 year ago
Heroine Addict wrote: 1 year ago
bushwackerbob wrote: 1 year ago
Femina wrote: 1 year ago
bushwackerbob wrote: 1 year ago One should not have to bend to the knee of cancel culture cultists in order to have a career.
Lol. Cultists now? Give me a break. I suppose then, that you'd like to lobby your local representative to pass some legislations to command employers to retain their employees no matter what!
Unlike some folks, I don't look to the government to solve every issue or problem when they pop up. The kind of things said at my place of work would make what Gina Carano said sound like a love letter LOL!
I dare say that your employment contract has various clauses about your conduct on and off the business premises. Most employment contracts do. While you and your colleagues may feel safe to say certain things among yourselves, I'm pretty sure that your bosses would take action if those conversations were overheard by clients. Likewise, posting similar comments on your social media accounts could be grounds for dismissal.

The social media accounts of public figures obviously face much more scrutiny than those of the rest of us. Gina would have been told this. Multiple times. Pretty much any employer can dismiss or refuse to rehire someone who shitposts on social media. There's no reason why Gina Carano should get special treatment.
I belong to a union, so I can basically say whatever the hell I want to my bosses LOL! Comparing contemporary politics to Hitler or Nazi Germany would not get me fired, of that much I am sure. Would it get me a whack on the head, maybe, but I would not lose my job over it. There was a guy for the Miami Heat that used an anti-Semitic slur, and the guy will be fined and suspended, but I am confident he will remain with the team. Gina Carano will not get that chance. She said something stupid, not racist, or anti-Semitical, just something stupid. That shouldn't cost someone their job. If every dope that posted something stupid online lost their job because of it, we would have an over 90% unemployment rate. Is that a road we really want to follow? I am sure if we did a deep dumpster dive into some of these cancel culture keyboard heroes social media posts, we could find stuff to get these dopes fired as well. Being a public figure should not mean that a well organized mob can get you fired for saying something stupid.
As I stated before as a Jew I believe Carano's comment was not stupid, I agree with it.
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Re: Cartoon character cancelled

Post by dlo005 »

Mr. X wrote: 1 year ago
Bert wrote: 1 year ago
Dude, even for you this is crazytown. I called you out for drastically underplaying the anti-Asian backlash in the States with actual data listing almost 3,000 incidents in 47 states.
Perpetrated by whom? The records are clear on who is doing most of those attacks and its not MAGA people or Trump supporters. By not looking at the demographics nobody is doing Asians a service. If the attackers were majority whites I think we'd be hearing about it big time and demanding action. I think the real underplaying is refusing to look at who are the attackers and if this is a hate crime.

BTW Jews in New York are having the same kinds of issues yet no one wants to talk about the majority attackers.
those attackers (that ethnic group) in our news media, can only be protrayed as victims. not as flawed humans, as the rest of us are.
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Re: Cartoon character cancelled

Post by Heroine Addict »

Mr. X wrote: 1 year ago
Bert wrote: 1 year ago
Dude, even for you this is crazytown. I called you out for drastically underplaying the anti-Asian backlash in the States with actual data listing almost 3,000 incidents in 47 states.
Perpetrated by whom? The records are clear on who is doing most of those attacks and its not MAGA people or Trump supporters. By not looking at the demographics nobody is doing Asians a service. If the attackers were majority whites I think we'd be hearing about it big time and demanding action. I think the real underplaying is refusing to look at who are the attackers and if this is a hate crime.

BTW Jews in New York are having the same kinds of issues yet no one wants to talk about the majority attackers.
What are your sources for this information? I can provide a study which shows that COVID-era animosity towards Asians overwhelmingly comes from White Christian Nationalists, a group which is mainly MAGAtastic.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10 ... 20.1839114

A few news articles about racial conflict in individual communities is not a scientific way to assess national trends. Could you please provide the stats which show that COVID-motivated anti-Asian attacks are being perpetrated mainly by black people?
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Re: Cartoon character cancelled

Post by sneakly »

How about switching the conversation to the 527,000 dead from Covid and the stimulus bill? The purpose of this discussion was to avoid talking about National issues that actually matter. Fox News, Breitbart Tucker and Hannity have nothing to report on that they can spin in a positive right wing light, like the blackout in Texas, the trial of officer Chauvin, the prosecution of the Jan 6 insurrection, Covid numbers, the stimulus bill, the $1,400 checks. All those thing just show how morally bankrupt the far right has become, so they create a storm in a teacup over shitthat never mattered. A rapey skunk? Six books that are almost a century out of date on race issues? A supporting character who didn’t read the fine print on her contract with Disney? Why don’t we throw in who you do not have to bake a cake for?
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Re: Cartoon character cancelled

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sneakly wrote: 1 year ago How about switching the conversation to the 527,000 dead from Covid and the stimulus bill? The purpose of this discussion was to avoid talking about National issues that actually matter. Fox News, Breitbart Tucker and Hannity have nothing to report on that they can spin in a positive right wing light, like the blackout in Texas, the trial of officer Chauvin, the prosecution of the Jan 6 insurrection, Covid numbers, the stimulus bill, the $1,400 checks. All those thing just show how morally bankrupt the far right has become, so they create a storm in a teacup over shitthat never mattered. A rapey skunk? Six books that are almost a century out of date on race issues? A supporting character who didn’t read the fine print on her contract with Disney? Why don’t we throw in who you do not have to bake a cake for?
Weaponized nostalgia gets better viewing figures and more clicks. It's a nice, easy narrative to take something that the Fox News viewer associates with simpler times. Then scare them with hysteria over how "THEY" are coming for innocent cartoons.

You know what they will come for next. They'll come for your church. They'll come for your neighborhood. They want to cancel your way of life!
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Re: Cartoon character cancelled

Post by Femina »

bushwackerbob wrote: 1 year ago
Femina wrote: 1 year ago
bushwackerbob wrote: 1 year ago One should not have to bend to the knee of cancel culture cultists in order to have a career.
Lol. Cultists now? Give me a break. I suppose then, that you'd like to lobby your local representative to pass some legislations to command employers to retain their employees no matter what!
Unlike some folks, I don't look to the government to solve every issue or problem when they pop up. The kind of things said at my place of work would make what Gina Carano said sound like a love letter LOL!
I don't think you're quite following the dialogue here? If you don't lobby to the government to solve societal issues and problems when they pop up, then you therefore have no say whatsoever on the employers right to 'cancel' their employees. The best way I can see to cancel 'cancel culture,' is to somehow stop employers from being able to fire their employees for perceived breaches of conduct, which you know, impacts their freedoms. Just waving a sign that says 'stop cancel culture!' with no outline in place to implement that is not a solution. Just pointing at someone being cancelled and crying 'that's bad!' won't solve it. So either you respect the employers right to cancel people as they are FREE to do, or you don't and must begin adding things to the listing of what it is and is not okay to be legally fired for. To STOP cancel culture, you have to lobby the GOVERNMENT to put a stop to it, thereby limiting the freedom of the employer.

In either case, if you believe employers should have the freedom to let go of their employees for SOME reasons, then you have to accept that people will inevitably be 'cancelled' on occasion when their actions or behaviors fall within those reasons. If you believe that people should NEVER be 'cancelled' for specific reasons, then you have to lobby for some freedoms to be removed. You're opinion on what the government should and shouldn't resolve within the social structure of said government is essentially a nonfactor toward that specific resolution. The only OTHER solution, assuming the trend doesn't burn itself out, is to peaceably convince the ENTIRE WORLD to quit functioning along its present course which is a slow sluggish process... or you know, go to WAR... to limit the freedoms of those you disagree with, which is its own can of bullshit I'm sure nobody here would advocate for.
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Re: Cartoon character cancelled

Post by Dazzle1 »

sneakly wrote: 1 year ago How about switching the conversation to the 527,000 dead from Covid and the stimulus bill? The purpose of this discussion was to avoid talking about National issues that actually matter. Fox News, Breitbart Tucker and Hannity have nothing to report on that they can spin in a positive right wing light, like the blackout in Texas, the trial of officer Chauvin, the prosecution of the Jan 6 insurrection, Covid numbers, the stimulus bill, the $1,400 checks. All those thing just show how morally bankrupt the far right has become, so they create a storm in a teacup over shitthat never mattered. A rapey skunk? Six books that are almost a century out of date on race issues? A supporting character who didn’t read the fine print on her contract with Disney? Why don’t we throw in who you do not have to bake a cake for?
If you want to talk about the delayed Covid , how about how little is going to Covid aid and how much is going to Dem pet projects.

Trump's Covid bill would have had more money going to that , but Pelosi wanted to elect Biden and dead Americans did not matter to her

If Obama or Biden had been in charge no one would have been vaccinated yet, because the vaccine would be 2 years away, because they would be more concerned about the set asides and patronage hires
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Re: Cartoon character cancelled

Post by Mr. X »

Femina wrote: 1 year agoIf you don't lobby to the government to solve societal issues and problems when they pop up, then you therefore have no say whatsoever on the employers right to 'cancel' their employees.
Government cannot solve social issues. The vast majority of social issues are caused by government. In fact the CRA was implemented to tell local, state and fed gov to stop being racist. It only provides title 2 to define lawsuits for civil issues and all title 2 does is tell courts they cannot toss out civil cases.

You give government power and it will always be used by powerful entities against you.

Government is not the solution. By all means let these people pick and choose who they support but that door goes both ways. Social ostracizing and boycotting are far more effective. Counter economics as well. This means people must have the right to disassociate. Facebook can pick who can post no different than Hypnotic can pick what gets posted on his forum. The real solution is alternative media and remove any special protections from government afforded to Google and others.

The issue here is hypocrisy. The left was black balled and banned in the McCarthy era and they screamed that was unfair. They KNOW that banning people for different views is wrong cause they lived it. Where's that diversity and inclusion? And its dishonest to claim anything you disagree with is "hate speech". There is no "hate speech" cause its an ambiguous and very vague label.

Now if you don't care about blocking people now cause your team is in power then so be it but spare us the diversity and inclusion nonsense because all that really is, is a box of crayons or an action figure collection or a polite Starbucks.
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Re: Cartoon character cancelled

Post by ivandobsky »

Femina wrote: 1 year ago If you don't lobby to the government to solve societal issues and problems when they pop up, then you therefore have no say whatsoever on the employers right to 'cancel' their employees.
I don't think people are suggesting that the government should prevent employers from firing people. At least I'm not. At least, not at this moment.

I suggest that people moaning on the internet, "go woke go broke" etc are indicators of a somewhat functioning free market. If they *are* firing people for bullshit reasons, it should affect their ability to make money in the long run. Of course, that's assuming they aren't propped up by a corrupt system that benefits those with power, but let's not get too side tracked here!
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Re: Cartoon character cancelled

Post by Femina »

Mr. X wrote: 1 year ago
Femina wrote: 1 year agoIf you don't lobby to the government to solve societal issues and problems when they pop up, then you therefore have no say whatsoever on the employers right to 'cancel' their employees.
Government cannot solve social issues. The vast majority of social issues are caused by government. In fact the CRA was implemented to tell local, state and fed gov to stop being racist. It only provides title 2 to define lawsuits for civil issues and all title 2 does is tell courts they cannot toss out civil cases.

You give government power and it will always be used by powerful entities against you.

Government is not the solution. By all means let these people pick and choose who they support but that door goes both ways. Social ostracizing and boycotting are far more effective. Counter economics as well. This means people must have the right to disassociate. Facebook can pick who can post no different than Hypnotic can pick what gets posted on his forum. The real solution is alternative media and remove any special protections from government afforded to Google and others.

The issue here is hypocrisy. The left was black balled and banned in the McCarthy era and they screamed that was unfair. They KNOW that banning people for different views is wrong cause they lived it. Where's that diversity and inclusion? And its dishonest to claim anything you disagree with is "hate speech". There is no "hate speech" cause its an ambiguous and very vague label.
Groups of people don't solve their own problems on any kind of acceptable timeline. We have Millenia of evidence that, left to their own devices they'll fight and kill each other simply over which geographic sector of the world they live in. Government is the balance to individualism. Individualism cannot solve social issues EITHER. Government in America, taken at its most generous, is in theory the will of the populace at large funneled through a control. I'm not saying block ANYBODY! I'm saying that whining about Cancel Culture is merely an inverse argument for WHOM you're blocking. Protecting Gina Carano isn't a singularity. You don't protect Gina Carano's rights to employment without consequence without taking the rights to enforce consequence from somewhere else. There's no equal sum to solving 'Cancel Culture' there's no golden egg wherein everybody gets what they want. Diversity and inclusion universally is the best metric for ensuring everyone shares in opportunity equally. If the fear is that Cancel Culture is impacting the opportunities of THE WHITE MAN or anybody else, then what you fear is that diversity and inclusion DOES NOT INCLUDE YOU and thus it is not diversity or inclusion and you need assistance in balancing the scales... the only entity with the power to do that is the government. We may not like it, you don't HAVE to like it, but the Government is the only body that has the power to FORCE Disney to maintain Gina Carano's employment. I'm not saying it SHOULD, I'm saying it IS, and is a fact that ALL THESE FACTORS need to be recognized in order to properly complain about 'Cancel Culture' without those complaints amounting to impotent baby rage.
ivandobsky wrote: 1 year ago I don't think people are suggesting that the government should prevent employers from firing people. At least I'm not. At least, not at this moment.

I suggest that people moaning on the internet, "go woke go broke" etc are indicators of a somewhat functioning free market. If they *are* firing people for bullshit reasons, it should affect their ability to make money in the long run. Of course, that's assuming they aren't propped up by a corrupt system that benefits those with power, but let's not get too side tracked here!
I'm saying that is a naïve perspective (from the 'go woke go borke!' crowd) that results in nothing but impotent baby rage. If you're platform is 'the government can't solve anything therefore I won't lobby it for anything!' while simultaneously complaining that too many things are being cancelled! then you're are essentially an Abraham Simpson.

Image

The individual and their social group have ZERO POWER to affect the corporate sphere from making money in the long run over issues this small. Ask any gamer who ever participated in a boycott of anything. It doesn't matter how many people you get together to shout at the cloud, there's always MORE who are bathing in it.
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Re: Cartoon character cancelled

Post by Mr. X »

Femina wrote: 1 year ago
Groups of people don't solve their own problems on any kind of acceptable timeline. We have Millenia of evidence that, left to their own devices they'll fight and kill each other simply over which geographic sector of the world they live in. Government is the balance to individualism. Individualism cannot solve social issues EITHER.
This is the exact Hobbesian view the left and religious right have. Its a horrible logical fallacy and suffers from Hobbes's paradox. Governments are ONLY composed of people. So if people are that bad then any government created would be a tyranny of death. And humans would have killed themselves off a long time ago.

The vast majority of people are peaceful and do not initiate force against each other. They do not need to be yoked and fettered. We have thousands of years of evidence of this. Humans interact in a cooperative manner and not due to the fear of death. People left to their own devices prosper, they do not destroy. People are NOT hobbesian. The world is not lord of the flies. You would have never been born if it was since your ancestors would be dead. Accepting there are mentally ill or deviant humans who commit crime does not mean one shackles the majority.

Individualism is not meant to solve social issues. Social issues maybe unsolvable. But initiation of force clearly cannot solve social issues. we are not one bullet away from utopia. Life is not a giant mommy telling the children what to do. The individual is the only thing that is important. Durkheim is wrong. The collective is not more important.

Your statement is the fundamental reason why your kind always resorts to force to solve problems they never solve and why there can be no communication. Its why people like yourself don't understand what voluntary or consent mean or that they get in the way of your time tables.

Fundamentally your basic view is flawed and a logical paradox. All governments are composed of the same people.
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Re: Cartoon character cancelled

Post by Heroine Addict »

Mr. X wrote: 1 year ago
Femina wrote: 1 year agoIf you don't lobby to the government to solve societal issues and problems when they pop up, then you therefore have no say whatsoever on the employers right to 'cancel' their employees.
Government cannot solve social issues. The vast majority of social issues are caused by government. In fact the CRA was implemented to tell local, state and fed gov to stop being racist. It only provides title 2 to define lawsuits for civil issues and all title 2 does is tell courts they cannot toss out civil cases.

You give government power and it will always be used by powerful entities against you.

Government is not the solution. By all means let these people pick and choose who they support but that door goes both ways. Social ostracizing and boycotting are far more effective. Counter economics as well. This means people must have the right to disassociate. Facebook can pick who can post no different than Hypnotic can pick what gets posted on his forum. The real solution is alternative media and remove any special protections from government afforded to Google and others.

The issue here is hypocrisy. The left was black balled and banned in the McCarthy era and they screamed that was unfair. They KNOW that banning people for different views is wrong cause they lived it. Where's that diversity and inclusion? And its dishonest to claim anything you disagree with is "hate speech". There is no "hate speech" cause its an ambiguous and very vague label.

Now if you don't care about blocking people now cause your team is in power then so be it but spare us the diversity and inclusion nonsense because all that really is, is a box of crayons or an action figure collection or a polite Starbucks.
Except getting banned from social media over a TOS breach is not even vaguely comparable to a Senate-led witch hunt which put extensive legal pressure on entire industries and imprisoned innocent people to set an example. Getting banned from social media is just a bit of an inconvenience imposed on you by a private business. NOT THE SAME THING AT ALL AS BEING PERSECUTED BY THE GOVERNMENT!

Nor is getting fired (or, more precisely, not being offered a new contract) after posting something contentious on social media even remotely comparable to being rounded up and put in a concentration camp. AGAIN, NOT BEING RE-HIRED BY A PRIVATE BUSINESS IS NOT THE SAME THING AT ALL AS BEING PERSECUTED BY THE GOVERNMENT!

Femina raised a good point in asking how objections to Cancel Culture can be resolved. You are clearly against government intervention, so how exactly can private businesses be prevented from acting in a way that you don't like? Boycotts would be the most obvious solution. But then Cancel Culture discussions seem to treat multi-billion dollar corporations as being run by hapless fools who somehow find themselves at the mercy of a nebulous "woke mob" which is simultaneously insignificant and incredibly influential. Mustn't blame the billionaires. That might let the cat out of the bag about Cancel Culture being a function of free market capitalism.
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Re: Cartoon character cancelled

Post by Femina »

Mr. X wrote: 1 year ago
This is the exact Hobbesian view the left and religious right have. Its a horrible logical fallacy and suffers from Hobbes's paradox. Governments are ONLY composed of people. So if people are that bad then any government created would be a tyranny of death. And humans would have killed themselves off a long time ago.
Hobbes is an absolutist. So it's NOT the same view. My perspective is that the solution invariably lies somewhere inbetween. In compromise.
The vast majority of people are peaceful and do not initiate force against each other. They do not need to be yoked and fettered. We have thousands of years of evidence of this. Humans interact in a cooperative manner and not due to the fear of death. People left to their own devices prosper, they do not destroy. People are NOT hobbesian. The world is not lord of the flies. You would have never been born if it was since your ancestors would be dead. Accepting there are mentally ill or deviant humans who commit crime does not mean one shackles the majority.
We have starkly separate outlooks upon what history shows about human nature. We are the single most warlike species on the planet. We fight over EVERYTHING. We're tribal animals. Our mode of survival in a society oft bumps against our tribal instincts resulting in our petty issues like racism, sexism, elitism, etc.
Individualism is not meant to solve social issues. Social issues maybe unsolvable. But initiation of force clearly cannot solve social issues. we are not one bullet away from utopia. Life is not a giant mommy telling the children what to do. The individual is the only thing that is important. Durkheim is wrong. The collective is not more important.


seems a bit Nihilistic to me to just assume social issues unsolvable, but I think that mostly we are in agreement here since the majority of my arguments thus far have been to illustrate that those calling for an end to Cancel Culture are simply applying force in a different direction. There's no utopia on planet Earth any time soon, if ever.
Your statement is the fundamental reason why your kind always resorts to force to solve problems they never solve and why there can be no communication. Its why people like yourself don't understand what voluntary or consent mean or that they get in the way of your time tables.

Fundamentally your basic view is flawed and a logical paradox. All governments are composed of the same people.
I'm just gonna roll my eyes at this. Suffice it to say, I've never forced anybody to do anything. Maybe take this particular complaint over to the mass that wanted to make the archaically tribal concept of a WALL to border off a perfectly peaceful neighboring country for fear of all the harvest work they steal from Americans who don't want to do the work anyway.
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Re: Cartoon character cancelled

Post by ivandobsky »

Femina wrote: 1 year ago I'm saying that is a naïve perspective (from the 'go woke go borke!' crowd) that results in nothing but impotent baby rage. If you're platform is 'the government can't solve anything therefore I won't lobby it for anything!' while simultaneously complaining that too many things are being cancelled! then you're are essentially an Abraham Simpson.

Image

The individual and their social group have ZERO POWER to affect the corporate sphere from making money in the long run over issues this small. Ask any gamer who ever participated in a boycott of anything. It doesn't matter how many people you get together to shout at the cloud, there's always MORE who are bathing in it.
Seems like something a statist would say!

Perhaps I and others shout at clouds, but we shout at clouds together. If we don't like what the corporate machine churns out, we can form our own "community" of likeminded souls around consuming alternative content. Discuss it, help eachother find it, even create it. This forum is a good example of that, when we're not banging on about politics!
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Re: Cartoon character cancelled

Post by Heroine Addict »

ivandobsky wrote: 1 year ago
Seems like something a statist would say!

Perhaps I and others shout at clouds, but we shout at clouds together. If we don't like what the corporate machine churns out, we can form our own "community" of likeminded souls around consuming alternative content. Discuss it, help eachother find it, even create it. This forum is a good example of that, when we're not banging on about politics!
Well, the fiercely anti-porn Daily Wire is working to provide some alternative Gina Corona content for you. Let's see how that goes.

If Gina's new stuff does turn out to be a bag of shite, will you keep consuming it as a matter of principle?
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Re: Cartoon character cancelled

Post by ivandobsky »

Heroine Addict wrote: 1 year ago If Gina's new stuff does turn out to be a bag of shite, will you keep consuming it as a matter of principle?
I will be tempted! Let's not be negative Nancys though. It could be good. Keep the faith.

Maybe I'll crack one out to own Ben while we're both owning the "libs".
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Re: Cartoon character cancelled

Post by Femina »

ivandobsky wrote: 1 year ago
Femina wrote: 1 year ago I'm saying that is a naïve perspective (from the 'go woke go borke!' crowd) that results in nothing but impotent baby rage. If you're platform is 'the government can't solve anything therefore I won't lobby it for anything!' while simultaneously complaining that too many things are being cancelled! then you're are essentially an Abraham Simpson.

Image

The individual and their social group have ZERO POWER to affect the corporate sphere from making money in the long run over issues this small. Ask any gamer who ever participated in a boycott of anything. It doesn't matter how many people you get together to shout at the cloud, there's always MORE who are bathing in it.
Seems like something a statist would say!

Perhaps I and others shout at clouds, but we shout at clouds together. If we don't like what the corporate machine churns out, we can form our own "community" of likeminded souls around consuming alternative content. Discuss it, help eachother find it, even create it. This forum is a good example of that, when we're not banging on about politics!
Then why is the 'minority' of woke bigots' defeating the cloud yellers in action? Why has the 'cancel culture' gestated, brewed, and finally exploded if it's only the voice of the minority while the cloud shouters stand together in raucous chorus against it?

My strong feeling is, it's because screaming at things doesn't actually do anything, and the 'minority' is larger than you believe it to be.

-

I'm getting the impression that people are mistaking my discussion here as advising they should follow and look to the government for EVERYTHING like lost lambs to the shepherd. I'm not. We're talking about Cancel Culture, its implications, and what should, should not, can, and/or cannot be done about it. I'm merely espousing that the Government does stuff, that it's here to do stuff, and that if you want it to do stuff FOR YOU, you have to engage with it and not just the people under its yoke. Screaming you're anger at the 'culture' involved in the phenomena of corporations firing their employees over breaches of conduct that you don't agree with as though the people who happen to agree with it somehow have the authority to make corporate decisions is, in most cases, fruitless. I've seen plenty of arguments against Cancel Culture taking this route of course, so I don't mean to imply that even HERE that's the only discussion occurring, but by and large I'm also seeing a great deal of the complaints being lobbied as simply means to further aggression against opponents in a political sphere. You know the crowd who be like, 'It's JIMS FAULT that Gina Carano got fired because last week I heard him saying he wasn't sure about continuing to watch 'The Mandalorian' after Gina's recent Tweet, Someone's got to DO something about these Woke assholes Canceling our poor celebs!" as though Jim somehow has the power to make decisions for Disney.
Last edited by Femina 1 year ago, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Cartoon character cancelled

Post by bushwackerbob »

Femina wrote: 1 year ago
bushwackerbob wrote: 1 year ago
Femina wrote: 1 year ago
bushwackerbob wrote: 1 year ago One should not have to bend to the knee of cancel culture cultists in order to have a career.
Lol. Cultists now? Give me a break. I suppose then, that you'd like to lobby your local representative to pass some legislations to command employers to retain their employees no matter what!
Unlike some folks, I don't look to the government to solve every issue or problem when they pop up. The kind of things said at my place of work would make what Gina Carano said sound like a love letter LOL!
I don't think you're quite following the dialogue here? If you don't lobby to the government to solve societal issues and problems when they pop up, then you therefore have no say whatsoever on the employers right to 'cancel' their employees. The best way I can see to cancel 'cancel culture,' is to somehow stop employers from being able to fire their employees for perceived breaches of conduct, which you know, impacts their freedoms. Just waving a sign that says 'stop cancel culture!' with no outline in place to implement that is not a solution. Just pointing at someone being cancelled and crying 'that's bad!' won't solve it. So either you respect the employers right to cancel people as they are FREE to do, or you don't and must begin adding things to the listing of what it is and is not okay to be legally fired for. To STOP cancel culture, you have to lobby the GOVERNMENT to put a stop to it, thereby limiting the freedom of the employer.

In either case, if you believe employers should have the freedom to let go of their employees for SOME reasons, then you have to accept that people will inevitably be 'cancelled' on occasion when their actions or behaviors fall within those reasons. If you believe that people should NEVER be 'cancelled' for specific reasons, then you have to lobby for some freedoms to be removed. You're opinion on what the government should and shouldn't resolve within the social structure of said government is essentially a nonfactor toward that specific resolution. The only OTHER solution, assuming the trend doesn't burn itself out, is to peaceably convince the ENTIRE WORLD to quit functioning along its present course which is a slow sluggish process... or you know, go to WAR... to limit the freedoms of those you disagree with, which is its own can of bullshit I'm sure nobody here would advocate for.
Of Course I believe employers should have the right to fire employees for conduct unbecoming that would reflect poorly on their company. What I object to is these cancel culture keyboard warriors creating this mirage, this funhouse house of mirrors, intolerant atmosphere where these corporate bosses find themselves no choice but to fire these people. What I mean by a facade or mirage is that these cancel culture bullies do not represent the views and opinions of the majority of the world at large, that they are a tiny but vocal minority of folks that succeed in imposing their narrow world views on the rest of us, that a tiny but vocal minority enjoys the sport of getting folks fired, see them lose their jobs, goes through their social media history in the hopes of finding dirt or unwise posts. The thought that there are people in the world that enjoy doing that sort of thing makes me sick, they have lost part of their humanity in my view. What we need to stop cancel culture is the universal acknowledgement and understanding that these cancel culture cultists, that the emperor has no clothes, that their power is wildly overstated and exaggerated. Social media is not the world.
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Re: Cartoon character cancelled

Post by Femina »

bushwackerbob wrote: 1 year ago Of Course I believe employers should have the right to fire employees for conduct unbecoming that would reflect poorly on their company. What I object to is these cancel culture keyboard warriors creating this mirage, this funhouse house of mirrors, intolerant atmosphere where these corporate bosses find themselves no choice but to fire these people. What I mean by a facade or mirage is that these cancel culture bullies do not represent the views and opinions of the majority of the world at large, that they are a tiny but vocal minority of folks that succeed in imposing their narrow world views on the rest of us, that a tiny but vocal minority enjoys the sport of getting folks fired, see them lose their jobs, goes through their social media history in the hopes of finding dirt or unwise posts. The thought that there are people in the world that enjoy doing that sort of thing makes me sick, they have lost part of their humanity in my view. What we need to stop cancel culture is the universal acknowledgement and understanding that these cancel culture cultists, that the emperor has no clothes, that their power is wildly overstated and exaggerated. Social media is not the world.
And I guess I'm saying that I believe this perspective flawed by sheer nature of it's expectation on society within the reality of human nature.

To put it another way, NOTHING you say to the 'culture' will affect people getting cancelled. People are FREE to say whatever they want, and the internet allows them to do this as much as they want with as few consequences as humanly possible (assuming you are anonymous). People will ALWAYS be free to say stupid things, and people will always be free to point at the person who said something stupid and tell them 'I hate what you just said!' they are then allowed to turn around irrationally and state 'I hate Disney for being associated with you for what you just said!' Disney is subsequently free to distance itself from the stupid that was said in the hopes of retaining the spending power of the person who flipped their shit and nothing, nothing at all whatsoever, can be done about that by turning around and crying out that we as a culture must END THIS BEHAVIOR as if it were as simple as scolding a naughty child. There's dozens of steps involved in the process that leads to a 'cancelation', and if one means to disrupt the process, it requires dozens of steps pushing inversely which themselves may lead to phenomena equally as problematic.

If we therefore want Cancel Culture to just END, full stop, we're either looking to a GRUELING period of sluggish struggle with a many faceted and unpredictable social culture that may ultimately prove futile, we can hope that it burns itself out as a phenomena, or we can try to lobby for the tightening up of employee rights which can end with a clean outline of what is and isn't acceptable legally, which will require you interact with the government. That's not Hobbesian, that's just the way corporate America works. I'm sorry if it bumps with the nature of 'rugged individualistic' freedom to ask the government for help with anything, but I want to emphasize that so too does crying out for Cancel Culture to end on the INDIVIDUAL LEVEL enough to stop cancel culture without government intervention ALSO bumps with rugged individualistic freedom (Edit Edit... double edit: unless I suppose you could find a way to peaceably convince them that they're wrong and make them WANT to agree with you... which feels like a pipe dream to me). Those people are free to say what they want? You're free to say you hate that they keep saying a thing, they're free to say they hate that you hate that they are saying that. It's just words, 'freedom of speech,' and none of it stops Gina Carano getting fired by Disney because SO MANY of those words were directed at Jim instead of Mickey Mouse.

Edit: Maybe follow by example? If this 'mirage' of minorities are managing all of this it's most probably by nature of lobbing their tiny rage in the right direction. Disney must be getting the majority of their information from the complaints of this small portion of America. If it's important to you, combat that the same way?

I don't expect it to work, because I believe you are sorely incorrect in the assumption that this is all the fault of a tiny sea of bad faith illuminate maniacs, but it's at least something to try that has a shot at success if you ARE correct in your fears of this shadow cult.
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Re: Cartoon character cancelled

Post by Heroine Addict »

Dazzle1 wrote: 1 year ago
Oh I saw a different clip. thanks for clarfying

Forget Piers

I believe Meghan is not only lying about the racism but that she was considering suicide. she and Harry go on the attack when relatives are in hospital not only Phillip but her father after heart surgery
As I've worked in environments where the slightest mention of suicidal thoughts needs to be reported as an urgent safeguarding issue, responding to such a thing with "I reckon she's lying" sounds like an alien language to me.

As you probably know, British libel laws require the accuser to prove their allegation. I hope Meghan Markle takes this to the civil courts where she can sue the fuck out of Piers.

Even if Piers genuinely believed what he was saying, going on national television and accusing Meghan of lying was a fucking stupid thing to do as mental health advocacy groups will kick up one Hell of a shitstorm about how such comments could make vulnerable people less likely to seek help due to fear of being disbelieved. He's fucked.
"A brass unicorn has been catapulted across a London street and impaled an eminent surgeon. Words fail me, gentlemen."
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