Hailee Steinfeld is Kate Bishop

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theScribbler
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Hailee Steinfeld is Kate Bishop

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Hawkeye Disney Plus Filming - Hailee Steinfeld Kate Bishop CONFIRMED

( the above video was made prior to when this news confirmed! )
the Scribbler

:christmastree:
If U C Xmas tree on TV show
it's Xmas Activism! :christmas:

:lynda1:
If U C attractive brunette in a movie

it's Dark Haired Women Activism!

Be very careful!
Don't B indoctrinated!
Cover your eyes! & ears!
:tv:
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Re: Hailee Steinfeld is Kate Bishop

Post by SnidelyW »

She has a ridiculously sexy figure. This is going to be fun.
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Re: Hailee Steinfeld is Kate Bishop

Post by batgirl1969 »

would love to see her strapped to a spinning wheel spread eagle with another bow and arrow villain shooting arrows between her legs...trying bury the head...just the tip...of an arrow in her moist sexy body....coming closer with every release.....
sneakly
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Re: Hailee Steinfeld is Kate Bishop

Post by sneakly »

batgirl1969 wrote: 3 years ago would love to see her strapped to a spinning wheel spread eagle with another bow and arrow villain shooting arrows between her legs...trying bury the head...just the tip...of an arrow in her moist sexy body....coming closer with every release.....
One of my favorite Wild, Wild West Episodes....
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Re: Hailee Steinfeld is Kate Bishop

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Re: Hailee Steinfeld is Kate Bishop

Post by shevek »

Nobody's said anything, so it's time to top this thread to acknowledge that this series is up and running.
I watched all three episodes so far, and I'll keep it short.

But here's what I think: Feige and Co. have a over-arching plan as they normally do, to de-marginalize and diversify the MCU.
Spoiler

Kate helps with that because she will (I predict) literally replace Clint as Hawkeye by the end of the series.

Echo is there to push deaf inclusion and not much else. Barely resembles the comic book version. You'd think they'd talk up her Native American ancestry in the script, but they never mention it (at least not yet).

Both the heroine and the villainess get prolonged expository training montages. It's become a pre-requisite in order to explain
a female character's bad-assed overconfidence.

And the "Christmas in New York" backdrop is there to soften these sharp-edged didactics for the average viewer. In case the visuals weren't enough, don't forget the soundtrack selections from The Nutcracker. Pizza Dog helps with that, as well - how could you be mad at that sweet fuzzy little face, such a good boy.
A spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down. Maybe just not in the most delightful way.
Bert

Re: Hailee Steinfeld is Kate Bishop

Post by Bert »

Well thank goodness you aren't an average viewer and you managed to see through this ruse and warn us. I know I certainly won't be tuning in to watch a beautiful woman in a sexy costume fight crime and face potential perils if I have to endure sharp-edged didactic tactics. Phew! Sure dodged a bullet (arrow?) there!
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Re: Hailee Steinfeld is Kate Bishop

Post by tallyho »

Once you realise Jeremy Renner has an enormous bulbous nose, you can't see anything else, your eyes are just drawn to it in every scene he is in
How strange are the ways of the gods ...........and how cruel.

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Re: Hailee Steinfeld is Kate Bishop

Post by Bert »

Oh, that just enhances the Christmas theme, further dulling our average viewerness faculties to better indoctrinate us via sharp-sedged botanics, no, harp-edged dirges, no, carp-edged taxanomics...whatever, it's a plot okay?
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Re: Hailee Steinfeld is Kate Bishop

Post by Damselbinder »

Bert wrote: 2 years ago Well thank goodness you aren't an average viewer and you managed to see through this ruse and warn us. I know I certainly won't be tuning in to watch a beautiful woman in a sexy costume fight crime and face potential perils if I have to endure sharp-edged didactic tactics. Phew! Sure dodged a bullet (arrow?) there!
I know, right? What if I'd seen a deaf character in the show and just... not particularly thought anything of it? Now I know that I'm not allowed to enjoy his character. I'm so grateful.
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Re: Hailee Steinfeld is Kate Bishop

Post by shevek »

Damselbinder wrote: 2 years ago
Bert wrote: 2 years ago Well thank goodness you aren't an average viewer and you managed to see through this ruse and warn us. I know I certainly won't be tuning in to watch a beautiful woman in a sexy costume fight crime and face potential perils if I have to endure sharp-edged didactic tactics. Phew! Sure dodged a bullet (arrow?) there!
I know, right? What if I'd seen a deaf character in the show and just... not particularly thought anything of it? Now I know that I'm not allowed to enjoy his character. I'm so grateful.
It's not just a "deaf character". The show is drenched in deaf awareness. Which seems to be one of its two missions - the other being the obvious Hawkeye-replacement. Again, I've only watched three episodes, so this could still change, but I believe that the initial presentation has already set the tone. We'll see. I'll keep watching.

As for "beautiful woman in a sexy costume", not really. In the comics, Echo is indeed sexy with a highly recognizable appearance. Not here. She doesn't wear any costume at all, and the actress is average-looking at best. As for Kate Bishop, her costume over the past few years in the comics has been milquetoast and non-descript - specifically meant to de-objectify into what Zack likes to call "Hero Person Girl". The TV version isn't any better, and Hailee's considerably potential for beauty is highly downplayed into an average, somewhat harrowed girl-next-door look (it's pretty much the opposite of what Geoff Johns does with Stargirl). The new characters don't connect with me because they are so bland - even Renner looks tired of being there.

If you don't believe that each of these successive programs has an internal agenda to *progress the MCU forward* towards the so-called Right Side of History, that's fine. You don't have to believe it. I do, because Feige has said it himself. The only show I think we might "catch a break" with is She-Hulk, but even with that, who knows?
Bert

Re: Hailee Steinfeld is Kate Bishop

Post by Bert »

"...the actress is average-looking at best."

37819394-9130981-image-a-110_1610261125344.jpg
37819394-9130981-image-a-110_1610261125344.jpg (74.43 KiB) Viewed 8300 times
Yeah, she's hideous alright.

And deaf-awareness? Do you hear yourself? (See what I did there!) Do you EVER get tired of turning every single thing into an anti-woke crusade?
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Re: Hailee Steinfeld is Kate Bishop

Post by Femina »

shevek wrote: 2 years ago It's not just a "deaf character". The show is drenched in deaf awareness. Which seems to be one of its two missions - the other being the obvious Hawkeye-replacement. Again, I've only watched three episodes, so this could still change, but I believe that the initial presentation has already set the tone. We'll see. I'll keep watching.
Echo is literally deaf in the comic books. I don't know what you're complaining about. 'Someone in this show is gay?' GAY AGENDA! 'Someone in this show is black?' RACIAL AGENDA! 'Someone in this show is deaf?' DEAF AGENDA!

Funny how any time something in a show isn't the bog standard normal shit we literally have truckloads upon truckloads of VHS tapes of, it's pushing some agenda. Well tough titties! If Echo wasn't deaf in the show it'd be shitting all over the character AND the deaf community at large. Hawkeye's white and yet none of you thought to scream WHITE AGENDA!!! or 'pushing a white narrative!' at the top of your lungs. Just shut up about it and enjoy the fucking show that's got a deaf villain in it and quit bitching about it.
As for "beautiful woman in a sexy costume", not really. In the comics, Echo is indeed sexy with a highly recognizable appearance. Not here. She doesn't wear any costume at all, and the actress is average-looking at best. As for Kate Bishop, her costume over the past few years in the comics has been milquetoast and non-descript - specifically meant to de-objectify into what Zack likes to call "Hero Person Girl". The TV version isn't any better, and Hailee's considerably potential for beauty is highly downplayed into an average, somewhat harrowed girl-next-door look (it's pretty much the opposite of what Geoff Johns does with Stargirl). The new characters don't connect with me because they are so bland - even Renner looks tired of being there.
Uh... Kate's actual 'hero action' suit in episode 3 was perfectly fine... and that's just her home made one and not likely her 'final' costume... it isn't like Kate Bishop has EVER been flashing her skin around?
If you don't believe that each of these successive programs has an internal agenda to *progress the MCU forward* towards the so-called Right Side of History, that's fine. You don't have to believe it. I do, because Feige has said it himself. The only show I think we might "catch a break" with is She-Hulk, but even with that, who knows?
I could fill a swimming pool with the agenda in your post alone. If you quit looking at shadows like they are a threat, you might find that there was nothing to be afraid of after all.
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Re: Hailee Steinfeld is Kate Bishop

Post by Mr. X »

I don't think there is some agenda per say just maybe mediocre costuming. And gotta give the show time to get some traction.

I think the special interest from the past was bad because now people have show anxiety. I remember cringing hear God messages in shows and now its the same cringe only with different items.

The show needs to find its groove.
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Re: Hailee Steinfeld is Kate Bishop

Post by shevek »

I'm not going to drag this out. Short and sweet.

Mr. X: https://www.cbr.com/marvel-kevin-feige-diversity-norm/

Bert: I've seen you complain yourself about recent rises in ideology before. As for Steinfeld, we can disagree, but the costume was already bland in the comics, and it's bland here too.

Femina: I'm not even sure you understood what I said in my previous posts. One intertwining philosophy of "intersectionality"..not separate agendas. But each particular show has its own focus. The main purpose of this show is for Kate Bishop to acquire the superhero name Hawkeye. But the deaf activism is there because Clint has a history of being hard-of-hearing in the comics, so they selected Echo as the villain to provide teachable moments about disability, such as
Spoiler
not being able to communicate with his son on the phone, and needing Kate to write down notes for him, because the hearing aid is in the repair shop
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Re: Hailee Steinfeld is Kate Bishop

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shevek wrote: 2 years ago I'm not going to drag this out. Short and sweet.

Mr. X: https://www.cbr.com/marvel-kevin-feige-diversity-norm/
Yeah I get that I'm just avoiding another poop-show on this forum. I just expect now the same old same old is going to creep into everything.
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Re: Hailee Steinfeld is Kate Bishop

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Mr. X wrote: 2 years ago
shevek wrote: 2 years ago I'm not going to drag this out. Short and sweet.

Mr. X: https://www.cbr.com/marvel-kevin-feige-diversity-norm/
Yeah I get that I'm just avoiding another poop-show on this forum. I just expect now the same old same old is going to creep into everything.
Fair enough. Let's just move on. If we can. Here's a tidbit that could help:

After just watching this week's livestream from one of our favorite local comic shops (New Dimension Comics, if you must know),
I found out that Kate's stepdad-to-be Jack Duquesne is none other than the MCU's incarnation of Avengers villain The Swordsman!
(I remember him fondly as kind of a brash musketeer dandy from way back in the day from the reruns of the Captain America and Avengers segments of the 1960s cartoons, but never knew his secret identity.)
Wonder if he'll don his customary purplish garb at some point?

Also,
Spoiler
there is a "hand" in the Echo karate dojo scene that some are speculating belongs to Wilson Fisk (The Kingpin). We do hear about an "Uncle" who is the actual leader of the criminal gang (Echo being second in command) so it seems quite likely that we'll find out who Uncle actually is down the line.
Last edited by shevek 2 years ago, edited 1 time in total.
Bert

Re: Hailee Steinfeld is Kate Bishop

Post by Bert »

"...not being able to communicate with his son on the phone, and needing Kate to write down notes for him, because the hearing aid is in the repair shop"

Well that changes everything. Hold the phone man, the apocalypse is at hand. We might as well all roll over and die, because a show referenced the hardship of being hearing impaired. I mean, what's next...a blind superhero? Who'd buy that hokum? Oh wait, Daredevil. I guess you better take your beef to Stan Lee. Oh wait, he died of old age. Decades after the debut of Daredevil.
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Re: Hailee Steinfeld is Kate Bishop

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shevek wrote: 2 years ago I'm not going to drag this out. Short and sweet.

Mr. X: https://www.cbr.com/marvel-kevin-feige-diversity-norm/

Bert: I've seen you complain yourself about recent rises in ideology before. As for Steinfeld, we can disagree, but the costume was already bland in the comics, and it's bland here too.

Femina: I'm not even sure you understood what I said in my previous posts. One intertwining philosophy of "intersectionality"..not separate agendas. But each particular show has its own focus. The main purpose of this show is for Kate Bishop to acquire the superhero name Hawkeye. But the deaf activism is there because Clint has a history of being hard-of-hearing in the comics, so they selected Echo as the villain to provide teachable moments about disability, such as
Spoiler
not being able to communicate with his son on the phone, and needing Kate to write down notes for him, because the hearing aid is in the repair shop
This shit above is just too stupid.

Story has a deaf character in it so that makes it a deaf activism story? No. Stories are made of character and plot. Characters have character traits that include physical character traits. In no way is this show doing deaf activism. I've seen all three episodes. No activism.

Kate Bishop and Echo both have dark hair. Is that dark haired women activism? No.

Daredevil's blind. Is that blindness activism? No.
The Silver Surfer's whole body is silver. Is that silver activism? No
Thanos has a scrotum like chin. Is that Fiege's secret mission to champion dickheads all over the world? No, it doesn't help shevek one little bit!

Bland costume! Have you seen Heroineburgh! Every costume is bland.
I'm not even sure you understood what I said in my previous posts.
No one's sure you understood what you said. Seeing as how the definition of words often escapes you! (I recommend a dictionary, there's many online.)

Hey, remember when you announced to everyone you don't know the difference between two of the simplest words in english?
shevek wrote: 2 years ago *Could* have taught him German. *Did* teach him German. What's the difference? ...
the Scribbler

:christmastree:
If U C Xmas tree on TV show
it's Xmas Activism! :christmas:

:lynda1:
If U C attractive brunette in a movie

it's Dark Haired Women Activism!

Be very careful!
Don't B indoctrinated!
Cover your eyes! & ears!
:tv:
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Re: Hailee Steinfeld is Kate Bishop

Post by Mr. X »

theScribbler wrote: 2 years ago Bland costume! Have you seen Heroineburgh! Every costume is bland.
Well.. to be fair Heroineburgh doesn't have the same budget. :D
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Re: Hailee Steinfeld is Kate Bishop

Post by shevek »

theScribbler wrote: 2 years ago
Spoiler
not being able to communicate with his son on the phone, and needing Kate to write down notes for him, because the hearing aid is in the repair shop

This shit above is just too stupid.

Story has a deaf character in it so that makes it a deaf activism story? No. Stories are made of character and plot. Characters have character traits that include physical character traits. In no way is this show doing deaf activism. I've seen all three episodes. No activism.
Irrelevant, uncalled-for ad hominem attacks against my creative output shouldn't figure into cogent critical analysis of the
products of a trillion-dollar corporation.

But yes, it's a deaf activism story, precisely because
Spoiler
After finding out that he's hard-of-hearing, but not quite deaf, Echo steps on Clint's hearing aid and crushes it on purpose right in front of his face, to teach him a lesson. He then 'learns' that lesson by not being able to do something basic like talk on the phone with his son. She's a disability extremist, which is one of her dislikable villainous traits, at least in the TV series. And yet we already know that this onerous individual is getting her own TV series - it's already been announced!
Maybe you should watch the episodes first before deciding that the stridency isn't there, when it is.

BTW, I just watched Gary from Nerdrotic's analysis of the first three episodes, and he makes two good points:
1) This show fully tells two origin stories of its central female characters (Kate and Echo), and yet the MCU has still never told
the origin of Hawkeye, who has been in at least five MCU movies.
2) If Kevin Feige had so much faith back in 2018 in the ability of Phase 4 to be carried by a majority of female lead characters
https://movieweb.com/mcu-marvel-movies- ... perheroes/
then why pull a sort of "bait and switch" with the show titles "Loki" (which served to set up Sylvie as new god of mischief) and "Hawkeye" (which is serving to introduce Kate as new archer)? The truth is kind of obvious....
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Re: Hailee Steinfeld is Kate Bishop

Post by Imagineer »

shevek, knock it off with the hyperbole.
Disney's market cap is not a trillion dollars. It's about a quarter of that.
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Re: Hailee Steinfeld is Kate Bishop

Post by Visitor »

Bert wrote: 2 years ago "...not being able to communicate with his son on the phone, and needing Kate to write down notes for him, because the hearing aid is in the repair shop"
I guess he can't afford the voice to text app for his phone now that Stark isn't there to pay for everything.
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Re: Hailee Steinfeld is Kate Bishop

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shevek wrote: 2 years ago
theScribbler wrote: 2 years ago
Spoiler
not being able to communicate with his son on the phone, and needing Kate to write down notes for him, because the hearing aid is in the repair shop

This shit above is just too stupid.

Story has a deaf character in it so that makes it a deaf activism story? No. Stories are made of character and plot. Characters have character traits that include physical character traits. In no way is this show doing deaf activism. I've seen all three episodes. No activism.
Irrelevant, uncalled-for ad hominem attacks against my creative output shouldn't figure into cogent critical analysis of the
products of a trillion-dollar corporation.

But yes, it's a deaf activism story, precisely because
Spoiler
After finding out that he's hard-of-hearing, but not quite deaf, Echo steps on Clint's hearing aid and crushes it on purpose right in front of his face, to teach him a lesson. He then 'learns' that lesson by not being able to do something basic like talk on the phone with his son. She's a disability extremist, which is one of her dislikable villainous traits, at least in the TV series. And yet we already know that this onerous individual is getting her own TV series - it's already been announced!
Maybe you should watch the episodes first before deciding that the stridency isn't there, when it is.

BTW, I just watched Gary from Nerdrotic's analysis of the first three episodes, and he makes two good points:
1) This show fully tells two origin stories of its central female characters (Kate and Echo), and yet the MCU has still never told
the origin of Hawkeye, who has been in at least five MCU movies.
2) If Kevin Feige had so much faith back in 2018 in the ability of Phase 4 to be carried by a majority of female lead characters
https://movieweb.com/mcu-marvel-movies- ... perheroes/
then why pull a sort of "bait and switch" with the show titles "Loki" (which served to set up Sylvie as new god of mischief) and "Hawkeye" (which is serving to introduce Kate as new archer)? The truth is kind of obvious....
Not irrelevant. You took the position that the costume was bland. I counter by saying all your costumes are bland. Pretty much a 'you're one to talk when your work has an abundance of bland.' Yep, not ad hominem. Get a dictionary.
Maybe you should watch the episodes first before deciding that the stridency isn't there, when it is.
I see I have to repeat myself. Maybe you should pay attention this time...

----
Story has a deaf character in it so that makes it a deaf activism story? No. Stories are made of character and plot. Characters have character traits that include physical character traits. In no way is this show doing deaf activism. :rarrow: :rarrow: :rarrow: :rarrow: I've seen all three episodes. :larrow: :larrow: :larrow: :larrow: No activism.

Kate Bishop and Echo both have dark hair. Is that dark haired women activism? No.

Daredevil's blind. Is that blindness activism? No.
The Silver Surfer's whole body is silver. Is that silver activism? No
Thanos has a scrotum like chin. Is that Fiege's secret mission to champion dickheads all over the world? No, it doesn't help shevek one little bit!
----

Only in shevek world does every TV show or movie with dark haired women in it have to be deemed to be dark haired women activism.

Nonsense.

"precisely because..." [proves nothing spoiler] that reveals zero, nada, no activism, but just plot events, scenes derived from physical character traits of characters.

Now give us a spoiler about Kate and Echo having dark hair and why with your complete illogic this equates to dark haired women activism. Everything is activism to you.

No one cares about neurotic Gary and his two non-points. And as neither of his so-called points have anything to do with supporting your deaf activism nonsense, it's clear why you bring them up. Diversion tactic, lamo version.
the Scribbler

:christmastree:
If U C Xmas tree on TV show
it's Xmas Activism! :christmas:

:lynda1:
If U C attractive brunette in a movie

it's Dark Haired Women Activism!

Be very careful!
Don't B indoctrinated!
Cover your eyes! & ears!
:tv:
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Re: Hailee Steinfeld is Kate Bishop

Post by sneakly »

WTF is deaf activism? I wear hearing aids and watch TV with the captions on. Haven’t seen the show, but are children going to ice pick their eardrums to be like a character on TV? Probably not. Might they watch it and think, wow my dad is hard of hearing too… Not every character needs to be white perfect and pretty (pretty does fill seats). In the 50, 60s and 70s. Seeing a major character that was anything else was pretty rare. Ironsides was in a wheel chair. Can you think of any other characters on TV that were in anyway handicapped? Representing a group that has been previously excluded from the media isn’t activism any more than Braille numbers on elevator is blind activism
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Re: Hailee Steinfeld is Kate Bishop

Post by Mr. X »

sneakly wrote: 2 years ago WTF is deaf activism? I wear hearing aids and watch TV with the captions on. Haven’t seen the show, but are children going to ice pick their eardrums to be like a character on TV? Probably not. Might they watch it and think, wow my dad is hard of hearing too… Not every character needs to be white perfect and pretty (pretty does fill seats). In the 50, 60s and 70s. Seeing a major character that was anything else was pretty rare. Ironsides was in a wheel chair. Can you think of any other characters on TV that were in anyway handicapped? Representing a group that has been previously excluded from the media isn’t activism any more than Braille numbers on elevator is blind activism
I remember that whole slew of private detective TV shows based on themes. Obese Cannon, the detective kid, the blind detective guy, Barnaby Jones the geriatric detective, Ironside, Murder She Wrote elderly woman detective, the canadian detective show with the agent who lost his hand. They kind of covered the gambit of detectives with handicaps.
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Re: Hailee Steinfeld is Kate Bishop

Post by shevek »

theScribbler wrote: 2 years ago Not irrelevant. You took the position that the costume was bland. I counter by saying all your costumes are bland. Pretty much a 'you're one to talk when your work has an abundance of bland.' Yep, not ad hominem. Get a dictionary.
Maybe you should watch the episodes first before deciding that the stridency isn't there, when it is.
I see I have to repeat myself. Maybe you should pay attention this time...
Story has a deaf character in it so that makes it a deaf activism story?
In no way is this show doing deaf activism.
zero, nada, no activism, but just plot events, scenes derived from physical character traits of characters.

No one cares about neurotic Gary and his two non-points. And as neither of his so-called points have anything to do with supporting your deaf activism nonsense, it's clear why you bring them up. Diversion tactic, lamo version.
Yes, irrelevant. Because it is only *your singular opinion* that my costumes are bland. My costumes, in fact, are very colorful, campy and recognizable. They are not generic jacketry. It is only because you are trying so hard to prove your point (which is that I am somehow unable to criticize a show correctly?) that you even lean on such a flimsy premise as attacking my own series, which has NOTHING to do with Hawkeye, especially since I am not in the least influenced by any recent MCU shows. And that is what makes it ad hominem, because you are making the argument into a personalized attack, when it never needed to be. When I criticize the MCU, I am not attacking you personally at all, yet you feel the need to hit me back right in the gut. How does that make sense?

You took a similar tack *again* when you called Gary "neurotic" (that's not his name, so it was meant as an insult) and labeled my extra comments a "diversion". They were not a diversion - they were additional critical talking points about the show which I picked up after my recent posting. That's all. I had no intent at all to use them to "divert" in any way. Just to add more gravitas to the overall problems of the Hawkeye show, of which there are many.

I see I also have to repeat myself yet again. You claim to have watched these episodes. And yet you don't see the forest for the trees. This is not about mere "representation" for someone to identify with. This is about using identity as a bludgeon.
Spoiler
1) In Echo's origin story, she is told she can't go to a separatist deaf school. So she uses her dedication to the martial arts to dominate bigger people - people who can hear.
2) She tells Clint he'd be better off not relying on modern technology which has allowed him to live comfortably for many years, and she suggests that he go naturally deaf. When he refuses, she later steps on his hearing aid, on purpose, crushing it to teach him a lesson.
3) Viewers are 'immersed' in a non-hearing soundtrack world several times following that action to drive that point home.
4) Echo makes it clear to Kazi, using nothing but her sign language and her attitude, that she intends to remain the Girl Boss and to dominate the proceedings.


All of these are strongly authoritarian types of actions. Which points to a kind of 'deaf supremacy', or let's call it "reverse audism" if you like. Perhaps it's so new to you (since it's the first time this has occurred in a superhero show) that you just don't recognize it, but it's almost exactly analogous to proclaiming any other marginalized group as "The Best Evar" within the context of one of these shows and movies. And THAT has been done before, numerous times.

(By the way, your own unique "diversionary tactic" of drawing false analogies - such as the 'dark hair' thing - doesn't work well. Anyone can clearly see that nobody in this series - in fact, nobody ever - considers themselves morally and physically superior to
others because of their dark hair. Yet that's what Echo essentially believes with regards to her physical trait of deafness. Which is why it's more than just a 'physical trait' within the context of the show - it clearly rises to the level of identity activism.)

I expect this message to continue to be delivered for quite a while, considering that Echo will soon have her own show (which means, of course, that she is not defeated within the boundaries of the Hawkeye series). Despite her past as a ruthless criminal, Marvel will do their best to transform her into a sympathetic character. If they don't, her upcoming series will sink like a stone.

But as I said, I'm still going to be watching these Hawkeye episodes, so you have a choice: You can keep arguing incessantly because we don't have the same point of view about the show, or we can just wait to see what happens with the rest of the plotting.
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Re: Hailee Steinfeld is Kate Bishop

Post by Bert »

So you make your one thousandth post arguing that wokeness ruins everything, generating very predictable pushback from a variety of people who are sooo tired of your shtick, and then you chastise them for arguing incessantly? Here's a thought - if people arguing with you is bothersome, don't keep accusing every show of the same sin. When you keep crying wolf, eventually people just roll their eyes and think "Shevek is off his meds again". Save it for when it's egregious, like the last few seasons of Supergirl.
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Re: Hailee Steinfeld is Kate Bishop

Post by Heroine Addict »

shevek wrote: 2 years ago
theScribbler wrote: 2 years ago Not irrelevant. You took the position that the costume was bland. I counter by saying all your costumes are bland. Pretty much a 'you're one to talk when your work has an abundance of bland.' Yep, not ad hominem. Get a dictionary.
Maybe you should watch the episodes first before deciding that the stridency isn't there, when it is.
I see I have to repeat myself. Maybe you should pay attention this time...
Story has a deaf character in it so that makes it a deaf activism story?
In no way is this show doing deaf activism.
zero, nada, no activism, but just plot events, scenes derived from physical character traits of characters.

No one cares about neurotic Gary and his two non-points. And as neither of his so-called points have anything to do with supporting your deaf activism nonsense, it's clear why you bring them up. Diversion tactic, lamo version.
Yes, irrelevant. Because it is only *your singular opinion* that my costumes are bland. My costumes, in fact, are very colorful, campy and recognizable. They are not generic jacketry. It is only because you are trying so hard to prove your point (which is that I am somehow unable to criticize a show correctly?) that you even lean on such a flimsy premise as attacking my own series, which has NOTHING to do with Hawkeye, especially since I am not in the least influenced by any recent MCU shows. And that is what makes it ad hominem, because you are making the argument into a personalized attack, when it never needed to be. When I criticize the MCU, I am not attacking you personally at all, yet you feel the need to hit me back right in the gut. How does that make sense?

You took a similar tack *again* when you called Gary "neurotic" (that's not his name, so it was meant as an insult) and labeled my extra comments a "diversion". They were not a diversion - they were additional critical talking points about the show which I picked up after my recent posting. That's all. I had no intent at all to use them to "divert" in any way. Just to add more gravitas to the overall problems of the Hawkeye show, of which there are many.

I see I also have to repeat myself yet again. You claim to have watched these episodes. And yet you don't see the forest for the trees. This is not about mere "representation" for someone to identify with. This is about using identity as a bludgeon.
Spoiler
1) In Echo's origin story, she is told she can't go to a separatist deaf school. So she uses her dedication to the martial arts to dominate bigger people - people who can hear.
2) She tells Clint he'd be better off not relying on modern technology which has allowed him to live comfortably for many years, and she suggests that he go naturally deaf. When he refuses, she later steps on his hearing aid, on purpose, crushing it to teach him a lesson.
3) Viewers are 'immersed' in a non-hearing soundtrack world several times following that action to drive that point home.
4) Echo makes it clear to Kazi, using nothing but her sign language and her attitude, that she intends to remain the Girl Boss and to dominate the proceedings.


All of these are strongly authoritarian types of actions. Which points to a kind of 'deaf supremacy', or let's call it "reverse audism" if you like. Perhaps it's so new to you (since it's the first time this has occurred in a superhero show) that you just don't recognize it, but it's almost exactly analogous to proclaiming any other marginalized group as "The Best Evar" within the context of one of these shows and movies. And THAT has been done before, numerous times.

(By the way, your own unique "diversionary tactic" of drawing false analogies - such as the 'dark hair' thing - doesn't work well. Anyone can clearly see that nobody in this series - in fact, nobody ever - considers themselves morally and physically superior to
others because of their dark hair. Yet that's what Echo essentially believes with regards to her physical trait of deafness. Which is why it's more than just a 'physical trait' within the context of the show - it clearly rises to the level of identity activism.)

I expect this message to continue to be delivered for quite a while, considering that Echo will soon have her own show (which means, of course, that she is not defeated within the boundaries of the Hawkeye series). Despite her past as a ruthless criminal, Marvel will do their best to transform her into a sympathetic character. If they don't, her upcoming series will sink like a stone.

But as I said, I'm still going to be watching these Hawkeye episodes, so you have a choice: You can keep arguing incessantly because we don't have the same point of view about the show, or we can just wait to see what happens with the rest of the plotting.
Honest question. Do you really think that Disney is going to put out a "deaf supremacist" show that encourages hearing-impaired people to stop using hearing aids and therefore reduce some people's participation in wider society?

If Echo does express such radical sentiments in the show, it will almost certainly be as part of an arc which leads her to appreciate that Hawkeye's own quality of life is enhanced by his use of a hearing aid.

As for Gary from Nerdrotic, if you didn't know he was a shameless grifter before, surely the sycophantic fawning over Alex Jones and the zero pushback given to that scumbag's bullshit should have given the game away?
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Re: Hailee Steinfeld is Kate Bishop

Post by tallyho »

OK let's not politicise things dudes.

I haven't seen the show but when UK shows embrace disabilities they usually have advisors from the pertinent charities that represent the said disability in the wider society (presumably so they don't offend anyone and lay themselves open to lawsuits.) Surely the Yank shows do the same with regards disability advisors etc?
If so it makes it harder to push any specific agenda re the disability unless that's also the goal of the evil geniuses who represent the said disabilities on set.
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Re: Hailee Steinfeld is Kate Bishop

Post by Visitor »

Mr. X wrote: 2 years ago
sneakly wrote: 2 years ago WTF is deaf activism? I wear hearing aids and watch TV with the captions on. Haven’t seen the show, but are children going to ice pick their eardrums to be like a character on TV? Probably not. Might they watch it and think, wow my dad is hard of hearing too… Not every character needs to be white perfect and pretty (pretty does fill seats). In the 50, 60s and 70s. Seeing a major character that was anything else was pretty rare. Ironsides was in a wheel chair. Can you think of any other characters on TV that were in anyway handicapped? Representing a group that has been previously excluded from the media isn’t activism any more than Braille numbers on elevator is blind activism
I remember that whole slew of private detective TV shows based on themes. Obese Cannon, the detective kid, the blind detective guy, Barnaby Jones the geriatric detective, Ironside, Murder She Wrote elderly woman detective, the canadian detective show with the agent who lost his hand. They kind of covered the gambit of detectives with handicaps.
Longstreet as the blind private detective:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longstreet_(TV_series)

The Canadian show wasn't detective but a a Canadian spy who lost his arm and was demoted to basically filing and minor cases with no nee for physical work.I wish that had gone on for more episodes.

If you include major supporting characters, the British TV series The Avengers had wheel chair bound Mother and blind Father giving Steed orders.
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Re: Hailee Steinfeld is Kate Bishop

Post by Philo Hunter »

Bert wrote: 2 years ago So you make your one thousandth post arguing that wokeness ruins everything, generating very predictable pushback from a variety of people who are sooo tired of your shtick, and then you chastise them for arguing incessantly? Here's a thought - if people arguing with you is bothersome, don't keep accusing every show of the same sin. When you keep crying wolf, eventually people just roll their eyes and think "Shevek is off his meds again". Save it for when it's egregious, like the last few seasons of Supergirl.
This is exactly why I've basically given up taking part in any kind of discussion on this forum for comic/pop culture stuff. Every. Single. Discussion. Get's derailed turned into the same arguments and even with Shevek on ignore it's impossible to have a discussion since he turns every thread into the same argument. It's suffocating and impossible to talk over.

We all know how this will go. Some of us get annoyed at the suffocation, push pack, they escalate then the conversation gets locked. Why are we even bothering?
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Re: Hailee Steinfeld is Kate Bishop

Post by Imagineer »

Bert wrote: 2 years ago When you keep crying wolf, eventually people just roll their eyes and think "Shevek is off his meds again".
Bullshit. This will never happen. In every thread, at least one regular will accept the offer and dance like there's prize money.
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Re: Hailee Steinfeld is Kate Bishop

Post by theScribbler »

shevek, your shtick is tired. Ask anyone. No one's backing it. No one's buying it. You're on an island. Your activism for your weird agenda is falling on deaf ears.

I'm liking the Hawkeye show. Cast is great. Not distracted the least bit by your failure to make any points. Not gonna go around in circles with you as you pretend scenes involving characters is somehow secret writers code for you to falsely misconstrue as deaf activism or any kind of activism. If someone else here can make sense of your bizarro views and can explain it to me, I'm all ears.

That you devoted any time to my silly dark haired women activism joke, cracks me up. Yep, dark haired women activism is not a thing, it's silly and on the same silly level as your deaf activism. They mentioned red dresses in the show. Oh no!!. It's a conspiracy! Red dress activism! It's telling all the loons that want The Handsmaid's Tale to become reality to wait for the signal in episode 6! It's secret writers code in shevek world that only shevek can see cause he wrote the book on it. A book of fiction he's still writing. More to come that no one here is the least bit interested in. Still coming tho. Sad.

:sleepy:

Anyway,




Hadn't seen this poster before.

Looks like Clint's destined for a costume redesign. Hailee looks fantastic.

hawkeye disney+ poster.jpeg
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If U C Xmas tree on TV show
it's Xmas Activism! :christmas:

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If U C attractive brunette in a movie

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Be very careful!
Don't B indoctrinated!
Cover your eyes! & ears!
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Re: Hailee Steinfeld is Kate Bishop

Post by Heroine Addict »

I must admit, if the regular as clockwork thread derailments are some sort of elaborate parody of the faux-outrage griftsphere inhabited by Nerdrotic/TheQuartering/Doomcock, then I tip my metaphorical hat to the comedy genius of "deaf supremacy".
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Re: Hailee Steinfeld is Kate Bishop

Post by Femina »

There's no activism here! There's nothing weird or wrong at all! It's ludicrous that this is a topic of discussion! Just f'kn ludicrous that anybody would even suggest it. It'd serve you all right if I just started opening threads up on every single movie ever made, indicate a white actor in it, and complain about the White agenda in the film until this kind of BS finally ENDS! DON'T PUSH ME!

THINK about it. THINK about what you're saying before you puke it up into a god damn post for everyone to read!
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Re: Hailee Steinfeld is Kate Bishop

Post by Shakeshift »

Shevek NEVER gets tired of playing the "Why are we decent comic-loving men getting picked on endlessly?" card.

Because as much as he says he hates wokeness, he LOVES playing the helpless victim so that he can whine and kvetch about the unfairness of it all. It's a little hypocritical.

"...the actress is average-looking at best."

And yes, Heroineburgh's costumes and production values are bland as fuck. Pot, meet kettle. Those girls at Heroineburgh are so fugly (and horrible with makeup) that they should all be issued paper bags to wear over their heads before he starts filming them. Seriously.

Hailee Steinfeld I'm sure has NO problems getting phone numbers on a Saturday night out at the clubs, by the way. I can't think of one of Heroineburgh's actresses who could say the same. If you're going to throw around the term 'average-looking at best' I suggest that you take a closer look at the P.A.W. Patrol you call your 'starting lineup' over at Heroineburgh.
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Re: Hailee Steinfeld is Kate Bishop

Post by SHL »

Shakeshift wrote: 2 years ago Shevek NEVER gets tired of playing the "Why are we decent comic-loving men getting picked on endlessly?" card.

Because as much as he says he hates wokeness, he LOVES playing the helpless victim so that he can whine and kvetch about the unfairness of it all. It's a little hypocritical.

"...the actress is average-looking at best."

And yes, Heroineburgh's costumes and production values are bland as fuck. Pot, meet kettle. Those girls at Heroineburgh are so fugly (and horrible with makeup) that they should all be issued paper bags to wear over their heads before he starts filming them. Seriously.

Hailee Steinfeld I'm sure has NO problems getting phone numbers on a Saturday night out at the clubs, by the way. I can't think of one of Heroineburgh's actresses who could say the same. If you're going to throw around the term 'average-looking at best' I suggest that you take a closer look at the P.A.W. Patrol you call your 'starting lineup' over at Heroineburgh.
To be fair to Shevek, I believe the ‘average looking at best’ quote was about Echo, not Kate Bishop. He also remarked they were downplaying Hailees beauty to make her more girl next door.
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Re: Hailee Steinfeld is Kate Bishop

Post by Bert »

"...and Hailee's considerably potential for beauty is highly downplayed into an average, somewhat harrowed girl-next-door look..."

I'm not entirely sure what "considerably potential for beauty" means in reference to the undeniably gorgeous Hailee Steinfeld, but Shevek's beef is clearly that she isn't attractive enough for his tastes. Actresses apparently need to trowel on Adele levels of makeup to meet his exacting standards, regardless of the demands of the plot.
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Re: Hailee Steinfeld is Kate Bishop

Post by sneakly »

Bert wrote: 2 years ago "...and Hailee's considerably potential for beauty is highly downplayed into an average, somewhat harrowed girl-next-door look..."

I'm not entirely sure what "considerably potential for beauty" means in reference to the undeniably gorgeous Hailee Steinfeld, but Shevek's beef is clearly that she isn't attractive enough for his tastes. Actresses apparently need to trowel on Adele levels of makeup to meet his exacting standards, regardless of the demands of the plot.
Having worked in NYC, thongs and stilettos are not weather appropriate in time square at Christmas. They got rid of those in the eighties….

TBH, she would freeze her little titties off in the costume they do have her wearing.
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Re: Hailee Steinfeld is Kate Bishop

Post by Damselbinder »

Shakeshift wrote: 2 years ago Shevek NEVER gets tired of playing the "Why are we decent comic-loving men getting picked on endlessly?" card.

Because as much as he says he hates wokeness, he LOVES playing the helpless victim so that he can whine and kvetch about the unfairness of it all. It's a little hypocritical.

"...the actress is average-looking at best."

And yes, Heroineburgh's costumes and production values are bland as fuck. Pot, meet kettle. Those girls at Heroineburgh are so fugly (and horrible with makeup) that they should all be issued paper bags to wear over their heads before he starts filming them. Seriously.

Hailee Steinfeld I'm sure has NO problems getting phone numbers on a Saturday night out at the clubs, by the way. I can't think of one of Heroineburgh's actresses who could say the same. If you're going to throw around the term 'average-looking at best' I suggest that you take a closer look at the P.A.W. Patrol you call your 'starting lineup' over at Heroineburgh.
Regardless of my opinions about Shevek's opinions, we can't allow discourse to get this nasty and personal. Please stop, or the thread will be locked.
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Re: Hailee Steinfeld is Kate Bishop

Post by Shakeshift »

While I understand the reasoning, all I'm going to say is that if the threads continually have to be locked down because of a "catalyst" that causes such dissension time after time causing threads to be perpetually locked down, maybe the better choice of action is to ban the catalyst that is causing all these disruptions instead. Just a thought.
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Re: Hailee Steinfeld is Kate Bishop

Post by Femina »

Soooooooo to get this back on track... hopefully.

How's everyone liking the show? I thought it had a 'good enough' start and the latest episode was definitely the best yet. Without getting too deep into it, one of the better car chases I've seen in a good long while.

I'm really down for the 'die hard'-esque Christmas theming and
Spoiler
They really went above and beyond with the 'Rogers: The Musical' gag!
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Re: Hailee Steinfeld is Kate Bishop

Post by Imagineer »

I really like the Shane Black Lite flavor. Holiday odd couple buddy cop yes please.
I like that it's so Fraction+Aja Hawkeye in spirit while the story serves the MCU continuity. The plot hook used to connect Kate Bishop and maneuver MCU Hawkeye into the Fraction-Hawkguy space seems to have worked just fine.
I love that the graphics, especially the credits, are straight homage to the comics.

The long-take start to the car chase annoyed me a little bit. This seems to be a trend, like everybody wants to do a long take for the sake of doing it -- long enough to get everyone's attention, but without any narrative point. I might buy that they did it to emphasize what a crap getaway car the malaise-era New Yorker is, except that they didn't do anything with that idea in the rest of the chase -- and that's fine.

I'm eager to see where the branding issue goes. Is the promotional image non-canon, or merely an easter egg via unfortunate circumstance, or something more meaningful?
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Re: Hailee Steinfeld is Kate Bishop

Post by Philo Hunter »

They've done an amazing job of keeping to the spirit of Kate Bishops comic history while changing things to fit MCU. Some of it was so subtle I didn't even notice it at first. In the comics she joins up with the Young Avengers by helping foil an attach on a big charity event she's on then finds Hawkeye's gear in the ruins of the Avengers Mansion. That's kind of what happens in the show, just shifted a ton to fit the MCU.

And as a HUGE fan of the Fraction run I also have loved the graphics in the title and credits and am blown away by how many "bro's" I've heard. Was worried there wouldn't be enough. Now we just need someone to call him "Hawkguy".
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Re: Hailee Steinfeld is Kate Bishop

Post by RedMountain »

No wonder this place seems dead lately, you all just can't resist turning any thread into a shit shoveling show.
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Re: Hailee Steinfeld is Kate Bishop

Post by argento »

RCO001_1637767429.jpg
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She is a pretty woman, and the clothes are fine.

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Re: Hailee Steinfeld is Kate Bishop

Post by Bert »

RedMountain wrote: 2 years ago No wonder this place seems dead lately, you all just can't resist turning any thread into a shit shoveling show.
You all? You're just above the fray, huh? Well, by my reckoning about eight different people descended on someone who was out of line with his comments and restored some balance. I guess you'd prefer that the loud, misdirected voices go unchecked and just dominate the discussion. To each his or her own.
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Re: Hailee Steinfeld is Kate Bishop

Post by theScribbler »

I actually like the mentor and mentee relationship they have a lot. So much so I'm bummed there are only 6 total episodes, which means only 3 new ones coming.

It's got a Marvel Netflix show vibe but with MCU movie humor. Yelena's gonna show up and based on BW movie they don't have to write her any different. Netflix's Kingpin, on the other hand, if rumors are right that he'll show up for a cameo or short bit, will probably be written like Echo is.
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:christmastree:
If U C Xmas tree on TV show
it's Xmas Activism! :christmas:

:lynda1:
If U C attractive brunette in a movie

it's Dark Haired Women Activism!

Be very careful!
Don't B indoctrinated!
Cover your eyes! & ears!
:tv:
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Re: Hailee Steinfeld is Kate Bishop

Post by Femina »

They've done a good job with Kate. The cold open and title sequence does a good job of indicating WHY she's already so capable... and the narrative does a good job of showing how, without a good mentor, she was on track to get herself killed pretty quickly.

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