Invincible (2020, Amazon Prime)

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Invincible (2020, Amazon Prime)

Post by shevek »

Invincible is my favorite original superhero comic of the 21st century. It was a comic book by Robert Kirkman (Walking Dead) which ran for 144 issues from 2003 to 2018, and I have most of the omnibuses and/or collections.

For a couple years, there had been rumors that Seth Rogen was going to bring Invincible to the screen, and I thought that meant a live-action series. But apparently it's going to be adult animation.

[Seth Rogen was filming the "Pickle Movie" in my neighborhood in fall 2019 and I was hoping to find him on set somewhere in order to ask him about Invincible. I never found him, but later on I heard from one of the actresses in Heroineburgh that she had a small part in the Pickle Movie - one line of dialogue with Rogen. Can't wait to see if her scene is included in the film!]

Again, just like with Jupiter's Legacy, it doesn't like look like there's an exact set release date, but it's coming sometime soon in 2020.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invincible_(TV_series)

But unlike Jupiter's Legacy, there's going to be a veritable panoply of voice acting stars that will lend it the necessary gravitas, including Steven Yeun (Walking Dead) as Invincible, the honorable JK Simmons as Omni-Man, Sandra Oh as Debbi, Mark Hamill as Cecil (the government agent), Gillian Jacobs (Britta from Community) as the very sexy redhead Atom Eve, and Seth Rogen himself as Invincible's buddy Allen the Alien. Looks like they might have an interesting gender-flip for the character who is going to be voiced by Zazie Beetz (the super-hot Domino from Deadpool, and Sophie from Joker)..will we see a shapely female version of Robot?

Can't wait for the hopeful flood of Atom Eve cosplayers who will hopefully come out of this! (and who will be the first SHIP actress?).
Costumes for her are expensive now https://www.hellocosplay.com/the-invinc ... stume.html but will surely go down in price if mass-produced.

Also waiting for the fairly extreme ultra-violence that this comic book displays, to be brought faithfully to the screen. Which could make the recent level of violence on the Harley Quinn show look like peanuts.

A good year for adult-targeted superhero stuff, and some new costumed heroines to add to the TV pantheon.
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Re: Invincible (2020, Amazon Prime)

Post by shevek »

From Twitter account Davino - the animation is looking really great on this.
Apparently there is some kind of free giveaway comic or pamphlet at comic shops promoting the Invincible cartoon release.

Can't wait for Atom Eve to fly into action!

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Re: Invincible (2020, Amazon Prime)

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No Spoilers review...

the Scribbler

:christmastree:
If U C Xmas tree on TV show
it's Xmas Activism! :christmas:

:lynda1:
If U C attractive brunette in a movie

it's Dark Haired Women Activism!

Be very careful!
Don't B indoctrinated!
Cover your eyes! & ears!
:tv:
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Re: Invincible (2020, Amazon Prime)

Post by shevek »

Grace is basically correct here. I think one of the reasons she really likes the Invincible approach is because the ultraviolence and trope-subversion is also present in her own comic book series "Supurbia" (on Boom Studios) which came out during the middle of Invincible's popularity in the comic shops (around 2009 or so). In fact, I'm rather surprised she hasn't parlayed that comic into a TV series..it's basically Real Housewives meets The Boys.

The only point I disagree with her is the bold claim that the voice actor lineup for this show would *all* be suitable for the live-action movie that Rogen and Goldberg are apparently still working on with Kirkman (who, if he actually buys DC Comics as many are saying, could become the Stan Lee of the 21st Century if he can truly revitalize the dying comics industry). For one thing, the legendary J.K. Simmons, brilliant as he is as both J. Jonah Jameson and James Gordon, is far too old to portray a muscular Omni-Man in his prime. Nor do I think that Steven Yeun would be a very believable Invincible, as he is too old as well (see what I did there? Subverted your expectations....). And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

Anyway, the first three episodes of Invincible are great, setting the tone for the series' hopeful success. I would compare it only to the edginess of the Harley Quinn animated series, except that Invincible is markedly better. What those two series both have in common, though, is "random woke injections" into the script. This happens quite noticeably in Episode 3.

The first three episodes adapt approximately the first ten issues of the comic series. Those issues came out around 2003-04. At the time, "Ta-Nehisi Coates" was still in college and had nothing published. "Fourth-wave feminism" wasn't a solid term yet (we were still at the end of the third wave). And nobody outside of a few university professors and anarchist bookstore clerks called the four presidents on Mount Rushmore "oppressors, racists and slaveowners". None of these quotes appear in the original comic, obviously, yet Rogen and Goldberg felt obligated as upstanding Hollywood progressives to remind us that we live in Current Year. It doesn't really affect anything in the cartoon, but it just takes the viewer for a few seconds out of the unique universe, and is certainly unnecessary and anti-escapist. What's weird about this is the writer for this episode, Chris Black from Toledo Ohio, is just some normie who wrote a lot of shows in the 90s like Cleopatra 2525, ST: Enterprise, Xena, Weird Science and Sliders, so I doubt that it was *just* his idea alone.

You'll notice if you look at the Wikipedia page that they cast a TON of voice actors who have played superheroes and supervillains in Marvel and DC movies and previous animation. I'm especially into Mark Hammill as the super-tailor Art Rosenbaum (basically this universe's Gambi). This must have cost quite a lot of money when they could have used unknowns, but this allows them to go toe to toe with those other universes for legitimacy (and appearances at Comicons). It was pretty smart!

Definitely recommend highly everyone check this out. After Jupiter's Legacy, I wonder which indie universe they will do next. Rising Stars? Noble Causes/Dynamo 5? The aforementioned Supurbia? Empowered or Bomb Queen could make fabulous adult cartoons. Or, they could just bring the two seasons of Powers out of drydock and watch it make a bunch of money. With the success of The Boys, the time is ripe.

P.S. As the Comicon season approaches in the open states, and even the closed states will probably starting having events in the fall...anticipate lots of hopefully gorgeous Samantha Eve Wilkins cosplay! Who will be the first SHIP producer to do an Atom Eve production?
atom eve and invincible.jpg
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Re: Invincible (2020, Amazon Prime)

Post by Mr. X »

The comic is very bloody. Not sure how they will pull that off.
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Re: Invincible (2020, Amazon Prime)

Post by Damselbinder »

shevek wrote: 1 year ago Grace is basically correct here. I think one of the reasons she really likes the Invincible approach is because the ultraviolence and trope-subversion is also present in her own comic book series "Supurbia" (on Boom Studios) which came out during the middle of Invincible's popularity in the comic shops (around 2009 or so). In fact, I'm rather surprised she hasn't parlayed that comic into a TV series..it's basically Real Housewives meets The Boys.

The only point I disagree with her is the bold claim that the voice actor lineup for this show would *all* be suitable for the live-action movie that Rogen and Goldberg are apparently still working on with Kirkman (who, if he actually buys DC Comics as many are saying, could become the Stan Lee of the 21st Century if he can truly revitalize the dying comics industry). For one thing, the legendary J.K. Simmons, brilliant as he is as both J. Jonah Jameson and James Gordon, is far too old to portray a muscular Omni-Man in his prime. Nor do I think that Steven Yeun would be a very believable Invincible, as he is too old as well (see what I did there? Subverted your expectations....). And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

Anyway, the first three episodes of Invincible are great, setting the tone for the series' hopeful success. I would compare it only to the edginess of the Harley Quinn animated series, except that Invincible is markedly better. What those two series both have in common, though, is "random woke injections" into the script. This happens quite noticeably in Episode 3.

The first three episodes adapt approximately the first ten issues of the comic series. Those issues came out around 2003-04. At the time, "Ta-Nehisi Coates" was still in college and had nothing published. "Fourth-wave feminism" wasn't a solid term yet (we were still at the end of the third wave). And nobody outside of a few university professors and anarchist bookstore clerks called the four presidents on Mount Rushmore "oppressors, racists and slaveowners". None of these quotes appear in the original comic, obviously, yet Rogen and Goldberg felt obligated as upstanding Hollywood progressives to remind us that we live in Current Year. It doesn't really affect anything in the cartoon, but it just takes the viewer for a few seconds out of the unique universe, and is certainly unnecessary and anti-escapist. What's weird about this is the writer for this episode, Chris Black from Toledo Ohio, is just some normie who wrote a lot of shows in the 90s like Cleopatra 2525, ST: Enterprise, Xena, Weird Science and Sliders, so I doubt that it was *just* his idea alone.

You'll notice if you look at the Wikipedia page that they cast a TON of voice actors who have played superheroes and supervillains in Marvel and DC movies and previous animation. I'm especially into Mark Hammill as the super-tailor Art Rosenbaum (basically this universe's Gambi). This must have cost quite a lot of money when they could have used unknowns, but this allows them to go toe to toe with those other universes for legitimacy (and appearances at Comicons). It was pretty smart!

Definitely recommend highly everyone check this out. After Jupiter's Legacy, I wonder which indie universe they will do next. Rising Stars? Noble Causes/Dynamo 5? The aforementioned Supurbia? Empowered or Bomb Queen could make fabulous adult cartoons. Or, they could just bring the two seasons of Powers out of drydock and watch it make a bunch of money. With the success of The Boys, the time is ripe.

P.S. As the Comicon season approaches in the open states, and even the closed states will probably starting having events in the fall...anticipate lots of hopefully gorgeous Samantha Eve Wilkins cosplay! Who will be the first SHIP producer to do an Atom Eve production?

atom eve and invincible.jpg
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Re: Invincible (2020, Amazon Prime)

Post by shevek »

Mr. X wrote: 1 year ago The comic is very bloody. Not sure how they will pull that off.
Same way they did with The Boys and Powers, which are also very bloody.

I think a bigger problem is that there's a lot more flying and aerial battles in Invincible than there is in The Boys and Powers.

Rogen and Goldberg have not given up on the live-action movie idea - they are definitely working on it with Kirkman.

(In a tangentially related story...our upcoming Episode 19 to be released in late April will have an entire scene which is a superhero
parody of a Seth Rogen movie filmed in Pittsburgh...)

Damselbinder: I don't want to stray too far off topic, but there is unfortunately no sign that Adam Warren has pursued any kind of adaptation for Empowered, either animated or live-action.
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Re: Invincible (2020, Amazon Prime)

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Mr. X wrote: 1 year ago The comic is very bloody. Not sure how they will pull that off.
You already got a reply above... with The Boys, Powers but also GOT, Spartacus and other relatively recent series, the blood and gore is not a problem anymore.

About Invincible, I don't know. I don't seem to enjoy cartoons so much anymore, I always have that little bug in my mind whispering ''this should be a live action serie instead !'', now.

Instead I am eagerly waiting for the new serie by Whedon, The Nevers, which should premiere next month - eventhough Whedon already left the production, after the recent accusations from actors etc.
Even if not technically a superhero serie, the trailers look good for me and surely seems more interesting due to the fact it's not a cartoon/anime but a serie with actual actors in flesh and bones.
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Re: Invincible (2020, Amazon Prime)

Post by Femina »

Empowered is probably currently still unfilmablke. We ain't ready for that shit... though the comics do eventually get around to telling an ultimately empowering tale...
it takes its sweet ass time getting there, including a full volume pretty much devoted to nothing BUT peril and humiliation... the average persons attention span being what it is today... Empowered wouldn't click with most people, and would offend most everybody else.
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Re: Invincible (2020, Amazon Prime)

Post by shevek »

Femina wrote: 1 year ago Empowered is probably currently still unfilmablke. We ain't ready for that shit... though the comics do eventually get around to telling an ultimately empowering tale...
it takes its sweet ass time getting there, including a full volume pretty much devoted to nothing BUT peril and humiliation... the average persons attention span being what it is today... Empowered wouldn't click with most people, and would offend most everybody else.
Well, at least I'm glad everyone on here seems to be familiar with it, since it obviously 'clicks' with all of us.

But now that *that* is out of the way, what did you think of Invincible's first three EPs? :)
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Re: Invincible (2020, Amazon Prime)

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helstar wrote: 1 year ago
Mr. X wrote: 1 year ago The comic is very bloody. Not sure how they will pull that off.
You already got a reply above... with The Boys, Powers but also GOT, Spartacus and other relatively recent series, the blood and gore is not a problem anymore.
Yeah apparently NOT a problem.
Spoiler
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Re: Invincible (2020, Amazon Prime)

Post by TIEnTEEZ »

I never read the comics and only watched one episode so far.
My take is that the first show is about 45 minutes and the first 35 minutes are an incredibly dull, trite, seen-this-a-thousand-times story. I was watching it thinking, "This is from the creators of the walking dead? This is an adult cartoon? I don't see it."

Then the last 10 minutes turns it all around. :)
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Re: Invincible (2020, Amazon Prime)

Post by helstar »

Mr. X wrote: 1 year ago Yeah apparently NOT a problem.
Spoiler
... and ? :laugh:
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Re: Invincible (2020, Amazon Prime)

Post by Philo Hunter »

TIEnTEEZ wrote: 1 year ago I never read the comics and only watched one episode so far.
My take is that the first show is about 45 minutes and the first 35 minutes are an incredibly dull, trite, seen-this-a-thousand-times story. I was watching it thinking, "This is from the creators of the walking dead? This is an adult cartoon? I don't see it."

Then the last 10 minutes turns it all around. :)
It's a recurring "theme" through the full run of Invincible (and through other Robert Kirkman written stuff as well) to have the first two thirds of a story arch be very by-the-numbers and true to genre tropes with a BIG twist or act of extreme violence. But once you get passed that point in hind sight they fit the story perfectly and don't feel like an unexpected, un-earned twist for shock value.
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Re: Invincible (2020, Amazon Prime)

Post by Femina »

My take is a big ass 'meh' and a TERRIBLE start.

I was never into Invincible, never read the comic books, I'd 'heard' down the grapevine that it was hyper violent, but honestly I never saw it as that sort of series just from the like promos and what not. Just never got in to it cause my superhero stuff was pretty much taken up in DC/Marvel. Turns out I wasn't missing anything. So do understand that this is the take of someone who is looking into it for the very fist time.

If the big to do is that its 90% normal superhero tropes 10% SUDDEN GRAPHIC VIOLENCE!!!!!!!!!!!

Than it DOESN 'T HAVE a shtick, it's just a thing that semi glorifies hyper graphic violence. The BOYZ handles its graphic violence better than this, makes it part of the story, uses it to ground the show with a consistent thread in a sense that 'Yeah Superpowers are kind of terrifying'. I expect that seven or eight 'issues' or 'episodes' into Invincible you've at least deduced what you're in for, but having watched the first episode last night, I will not be watching any going further. It's absolutely blood and gore, for the sake of blood and gore, and that to me is pretty much the equivalent of some writer somewhere jacking themselves off over a severed head and thinking it makes them cool or that their saying something about the genre, when all their really doing is jacking off over a severed head. (apologies for the graphic nature of the visual, but I'd reached the climax of my post, and to prove that I'm 'hip' it apparently needed a little 'oomph' at the end)
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Re: Invincible (2020, Amazon Prime)

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Femina wrote: 1 year ago My take is a big ass 'meh' and a TERRIBLE start.

If the big to do is that its 90% normal superhero tropes 10% SUDDEN GRAPHIC VIOLENCE!!!!!!!!!!!

I expect that seven or eight 'issues' or 'episodes' into Invincible you've at least deduced what you're in for, but having watched the first episode last night, I will not be watching any going further. It's absolutely blood and gore, for the sake of blood and gore
No it isn't. You're already contradicting yourself by saying that a few episodes in you'll "know what you're in for", and yet you only
watched one. So how do you know what you're in for? All you saw was a horrible murder that was committed. It's just the setup for
everything that comes after it. The gore isn't for its own sake, it's there to launch the story arc.

In fact, Powers has much the same setup for its first season - Retro Girl gets brutally murdered in the "Who Killed Retro Girl?" arc from the comics, and then a new young Retro Girl replaces the old one, just like the new young group of Guardians replace the old group in Invincible.

Having just watched Episode 4, I'd actually say that it was the most boring episode and even a little sleepy. The part with the
Spoiler
Martians was kind of fun, but it also seemed like a bit of a distraction, and they went all the way to Issue #18 to get that particular plot, so they're definitely doing a bunch of skipping around.
I do have one question with regards to plot, though, and that is
Spoiler
why didn't Omni-Man just kill Damien Darkblood when he started to get too close in his investigation? Darkblood just seemed like a loner that nobody would miss anyway. Instead, they went through the elaborate procedure of Cecil banishing him in a showy demonic ritual.
Anyway, you might want to give the series a second chance, Femina. If you do, you'll get to see Atom Eve in action.
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Re: Invincible (2020, Amazon Prime)

Post by Damselbinder »

shevek wrote: 1 year ago
Femina wrote: 1 year ago My take is a big ass 'meh' and a TERRIBLE start.

If the big to do is that its 90% normal superhero tropes 10% SUDDEN GRAPHIC VIOLENCE!!!!!!!!!!!

I expect that seven or eight 'issues' or 'episodes' into Invincible you've at least deduced what you're in for, but having watched the first episode last night, I will not be watching any going further. It's absolutely blood and gore, for the sake of blood and gore
No it isn't. You're already contradicting yourself by saying that a few episodes in you'll "know what you're in for", and yet you only
watched one. So how do you know what you're in for? All you saw was a horrible murder that was committed. It's just the setup for
everything that comes after it. The gore isn't for its own sake, it's there to launch the story arc.

In fact, Powers has much the same setup for its first season - Retro Girl gets brutally murdered in the "Who Killed Retro Girl?" arc from the comics, and then a new young Retro Girl replaces the old one, just like the new young group of Guardians replace the old group in Invincible.

Having just watched Episode 4, I'd actually say that it was the most boring episode and even a little sleepy. The part with the
Spoiler
Martians was kind of fun, but it also seemed like a bit of a distraction, and I think it was a new feature that the writers threw in - I don't remember it from the comics.
I do have one question with regards to plot, though, and that is
Spoiler
why didn't Omni-Man just kill Damien Darkblood when he started to get too close in his investigation? Darkblood just seemed like a loner that nobody would miss anyway. Instead, they went through the elaborate procedure of Cecil banishing him in a showy demonic ritual.
Anyway, you might want to give the series a second chance, Femina. If you do, you'll get to see Atom Eve in action.
Spoiler
The murders were key to the plot. How graphically those murders are depicted is an artistic choice, right or wrong. It is certainly possible to argue that the gore was essential for establishing tone/convincing the audience of the horror of Omni-Man's actions, etc. It is not the same to say that it was literally necessary for the narrative to make sense.
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Re: Invincible (2020, Amazon Prime)

Post by Femina »

shevek wrote: 1 year ago
Femina wrote: 1 year ago My take is a big ass 'meh' and a TERRIBLE start.

If the big to do is that its 90% normal superhero tropes 10% SUDDEN GRAPHIC VIOLENCE!!!!!!!!!!!

I expect that seven or eight 'issues' or 'episodes' into Invincible you've at least deduced what you're in for, but having watched the first episode last night, I will not be watching any going further. It's absolutely blood and gore, for the sake of blood and gore
No it isn't. You're already contradicting yourself by saying that a few episodes in you'll "know what you're in for", and yet you only
watched one. So how do you know what you're in for? All you saw was a horrible murder that was committed. It's just the setup for
everything that comes after it. The gore isn't for its own sake, it's there to launch the story arc.

In fact, Powers has much the same setup for its first season - Retro Girl gets brutally murdered in the "Who Killed Retro Girl?" arc from the comics, and then a new young Retro Girl replaces the old one, just like the new young group of Guardians replace the old group in Invincible.

Having just watched Episode 4, I'd actually say that it was the most boring episode and even a little sleepy. The part with the
Spoiler
Martians was kind of fun, but it also seemed like a bit of a distraction, and they went all the way to Issue #18 to get that particular plot, so they're definitely doing a bunch of skipping around.
I do have one question with regards to plot, though, and that is
Spoiler
why didn't Omni-Man just kill Damien Darkblood when he started to get too close in his investigation? Darkblood just seemed like a loner that nobody would miss anyway. Instead, they went through the elaborate procedure of Cecil banishing him in a showy demonic ritual.
Anyway, you might want to give the series a second chance, Femina. If you do, you'll get to see Atom Eve in action.
No what I meant was 'a few episodes in you might know what your in for' in terms of the graphic nature of the violence for the sake of violence not anything of narrative impact. I wasn't commenting on the shows PLOT. My point was that everything 'special' about Invincible seems to be that its 'suddenly graphically violent' in stints after otherwise following genre tropes... and imo that means there's nothing special about it. The Boyz uses graphic violence from beginning to end and its used to say something about its universe and the state of its world. In Invincible the only reason I can find that explains it is that someone in the creators room thought 'cause this ain't no kiddy show!'.... except that in ALL OTHER ASPECTS of Invincible, it's perfectly approachable by pretty much anybody.

I am maybe being overly harsh in my statements here. It's not the WORST superhero plotline stuff I've ever seen or anything... and if this sort of stuff is your bread and butter then I guess more power to you, but it's not for me. If your movie or TV show or whatever is going to be hyper-violent, then it'd better be doing something with that other than just trying to gross me out...

Brightburn is maybe another example of a hyper-violent superhero thing that 'gets it' it made itself into a HORROR movie. The fact that so much of Invincible is your average Spider-man issue is what makes the graphic violence at the end of it in such poor taste, not just the violence itself. It seems to want to use that violence to make its identity... and far as I'm concerned, there are already superhero properties doing that better.
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Re: Invincible (2020, Amazon Prime)

Post by Mr. X »

Femina wrote: 1 year ago
No what I meant was 'a few episodes in you might know what your in for' in terms of the graphic nature of the violence for the sake of violence not anything of narrative impact. I wasn't commenting on the shows PLOT. My point was that everything 'special' about Invincible seems to be that its 'suddenly graphically violent' in stints after otherwise following genre tropes... and imo that means there's nothing special about it. The Boyz uses graphic violence from beginning to end and its used to say something about its universe and the state of its world. In Invincible the only reason I can find that explains it is that someone in the creators room thought 'cause this ain't no kiddy show!'.... except that in ALL OTHER ASPECTS of Invincible, it's perfectly approachable by pretty much anybody.
I agree. The Boys uses violence to show how horrendous these people are. Invincible could easily play out without any of the violence aspects. For example he saves an old lady from invaders only to find she got shot as he tried to move her. No real emotion there just "oops old dead lady". There's no real pain since the violence is just there with no emotional impact.

This show probably would be a DC super hero show if it wasn't for the violence. Most of the characters are just DC and Marvel clones. Monster Girl is the Hulk. The coin guy is Gambit.
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Re: Invincible (2020, Amazon Prime)

Post by shevek »

Episode 5 has an amazing battle of multiple heroes vs multiple villains with high stakes and damages.
The details were slightly different than in the comic book (e.g. there's no Immortal in the battle)
but essentially it's the entire plot of Issue #19. The parts with Amber were annoying
Spoiler
(she is unnecessarily needy) but there's solace
in knowing that eventually she'll be out of the picture (unless they've radically changed the direction of the story).
A very rewarding watch!
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Re: Invincible (2020, Amazon Prime)

Post by tallyho »

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Re: Invincible (2020, Amazon Prime)

Post by NotUv2 »

Personally, I think the show is amazing. I never read the comics, and I'm glad of it: everything's fresh and I'm not tempted to compare it to How It Was Originally Done. So the first-episode reveal about Mark's dad, and the twist into terrifying hyper-violence from happy-go-lucky superhero stuff, was pretty great.

(And the hyper-violence is terrifying, holy cow. The awful feeling of not knowing who's going to live or die when something kicks off reminds me of Game of Thrones. I also see this compared to The Boys a lot, a show I haven't seen but maybe I should.)

The ongoing tension around the investigation, Invincible exploring his powers and discovering firsthand in various ways both the exhilaration and just how horrifying hero work can be, and the various subplots and secret agendas playing out has me hooked.

And holy crap, the voice cast! Who isn't in this thing? This is like the Denis Villeneuve's DUNE of superhero shows. I'm here for it.
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Re: Invincible (2020, Amazon Prime)

Post by shevek »

Glad we agreed on something, NotUv! :)

The season finale was incredible. While giving nothing away to those who have never read the comic, it's basically the plot of
Issue 12 which concluded the 2nd trade volume. One extra scene (involving a train) was added to the animated version which
was never even in the comic, and it just makes the whole final battle have that much more impact.

As for the comparison to The Boys, maybe there was an element in the show producers' intentions that was possibly "hold my beer Homelander". Anyway, there's already TWO more seasons assured to this show, so it's sure to rise in popularity (like The Boys did)
and become a classic. While we wait, on to Jupiter's Legacy starting on Friday!
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Re: Invincible (2020, Amazon Prime)

Post by Dogfish »

I've seen bits and pieces of this on them there internets and I see the appeal but I'm kind of nonplussed. The addition of people getting violently mutilated and killed to what is otherwise very rudimentary comic book stuff doesn't make it better for me (and yes, betrayals, deaths, cities blowing up, mass destruction, this is all standard stuff, whether people are shown getting exploded in the mix of all that is the only discernible difference).

I think The Boys did better with the whole 'What if Superman But He's A Giant Prick' idea, and making it live action makes it more interesting because any idiot can draw the inside of whale, not everybody can build it and have actors sit inside it.
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Re: Invincible (2020, Amazon Prime)

Post by Philo Hunter »

Dogfish wrote: 1 year ago I think The Boys did better with the whole 'What if Superman But He's A Giant Prick' idea, and making it live action makes it more interesting because any idiot can draw the inside of whale, not everybody can build it and have actors sit inside it.
It's cool if you prefer live action over animation, but the level of production on a show like Invincible is NOT just something "any idiot" can do. It took like three years from pre-production to release. Animation at this level takes incredible skill.
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Re: Invincible (2020, Amazon Prime)

Post by Dogfish »

Philo Hunter wrote: 1 year ago
Dogfish wrote: 1 year ago I think The Boys did better with the whole 'What if Superman But He's A Giant Prick' idea, and making it live action makes it more interesting because any idiot can draw the inside of whale, not everybody can build it and have actors sit inside it.
It's cool if you prefer live action over animation, but the level of production on a show like Invincible is NOT just something "any idiot" can do. It took like three years from pre-production to release. Animation at this level takes incredible skill.
It's animation. It'll look as good as people are willing to pay for it to look. It's not breaking new ground like Into The Spiderverse or an early Pixar movie, and it's not as cool as building a fake dead whale and filming in it.
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Re: Invincible (2020, Amazon Prime)

Post by TIEnTEEZ »

Okay, so I finished the series yesterday, and overall... I loved it. :)
The ending is a little hokey and simplistic, I thought, but I really enjoyed the whole series and the last two episodes, in particular, were really exciting and I was on the edge of my seat. :)
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Re: Invincible (2020, Amazon Prime)

Post by Philo Hunter »

Dogfish wrote: 1 year ago It's animation. It'll look as good as people are willing to pay for it to look. It's not breaking new ground like Into The Spiderverse or an early Pixar movie, and it's not as cool as building a fake dead whale and filming in it.
But it DID break new ground: the amount and kind of gore in it was stunningly groundbreaking for something that is a mainstream release. Again, it's cool if this just isn't your thing, but there is a reason it had such high viewership and that it got picked up for two more seasons. "Cool" is very subjective, and you're clearly pretty hung up on the cool factor of that dead whale so... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Re: Invincible (2020, Amazon Prime)

Post by NotUv2 »

I was pretty blown away by the finale, and especially by the graphic illustration of Omni-Man's personal cruelty and callousness therein. We had already seen how brutal and callous he could be to alien would-be conquerors:
Spoiler
But even with that, seeing his
Spoiler
... and what he was fully prepared to put Mark through to make him a worthy Viltrumite was a whole other level.

I'm actively avoiding spoilers for the future seasons. I want to keep this fresh. It's been amazing so far.
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Re: Invincible (2020, Amazon Prime)

Post by brdiy »

Philo Hunter wrote: 1 year ago
Dogfish wrote: 1 year ago It's animation. It'll look as good as people are willing to pay for it to look. It's not breaking new ground like Into The Spiderverse or an early Pixar movie, and it's not as cool as building a fake dead whale and filming in it.
But it DID break new ground: the amount and kind of gore in it was stunningly groundbreaking for something that is a mainstream release. Again, it's cool if this just isn't your thing, but there is a reason it had such high viewership and that it got picked up for two more seasons. "Cool" is very subjective, and you're clearly pretty hung up on the cool factor of that dead whale so... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I liked it, and for me that's all that matters. Not everyone will like it and that's a given, and I'm ok with that as long as they don't try and force me to change my view. No point in trying to convince those who don't like it to change their minds either.
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Re: Invincible (2020, Amazon Prime)

Post by Femina »

Philo Hunter wrote: 1 year ago But it DID break new ground: the amount and kind of gore in it was stunningly groundbreaking for something that is a mainstream release. Again, it's cool if this just isn't your thing, but there is a reason it had such high viewership and that it got picked up for two more seasons. "Cool" is very subjective, and you're clearly pretty hung up on the cool factor of that dead whale so... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
That's not new ground. Nothing here is new ground. I mean it's uncommon, but it's not new. It's a well animated show though no doubt about it, no denying it... but there's better ins mediums... both in animation AND in graphic novels.

Regardless, having now watched it all. I have a more favorable opinion of it than when I tried out the first episode. It still has a lot of problems... some faulty story arcs, your usual character nonsense to incite drama that undercuts what we're supposed to be feeling about the characters themselves... but the most egregious issue is its want to be edgelord when it doesn't really NEED to be... That said it is actually looking like it may have something to SAY afterall... it only it would stop shooting itself in the foot trying. While the remainder of the show is still plenty gory... at least not much of it is on par with the grotesquely unnecessary gorefest of that first episode... the finale has some pretty stark imagery... but whereas the first episode's gore feels strangely glorified and revels in just holding a grotesque shot several beats longer than it should, the final episodes gore plays much better in using the gore to paint it for the horror it should be, and does NOT revel in it, only remaining overlong on harsh imagery if there is IN FACT good reason to.

But the gore is this shows double edged sword. The Boyz is still KILLING this show in that department... but Invincible's looking to have a great deal more HEART than The Boyz does... which is perhaps why It's tough for the show to ever sell that it NEEDS all that gore at the best of times. The ever increasing 'blood splatters' over the title card in particular is just cringe as fuck. Babies first 'daaaaaark'... The shows desire to spill blood is in active conflict with the tone of basically every other scene... the only episodes that feel tonally consistent are the final two, in which the entirety of the episodes arcs are devoted less to parody and are better focused to the point of the overall exercise.
Spoiler
'Invincible' seems utterly 'Vincible' as does his father. Superman/Kryptonians are a lot more invulnerable than they are so the governments complete terror of Omni Man is often undercut by clear displays that its not outside of our power to kill him... not even THAT FAR out of our power and it continually feels like the only good reason for Mark but more ESPECIALLY Omni-Man to get so utterly splattered about and injured is JUST to keep up the gore quota... and in so doing its undercutting the brooding threat of the Vitri...mites? a bit... additionally its harder to suspend your disbelief the more inconsequential some of the gore becomes... I mean how many teeth are we realistically supposed to believe people can shrug off loosing without being forced to question the need to keep showing characters spitting them out? Especially when they just seem to have all their teeth again in an episodes time? Stop showing people spitting out their teeth, and I won't demand an explanation for how superheroes have any teeth at all. Somebody better have invented 'instant teeth!' in this universe or so help me...
I'll give it another season though, hopefully it gets better, I doubt at this point they'll do anything about the gore, but maybe they'll retool some of the narrative beats that don't work and strengthen the ones that do. I don't like to judge a whole season by a pilot, so I gave the rest of the series a glance and wasn't displeased by its improvements.... but season two needs to be better if I'm going to watch it into a third. It felt like the show was figuring itself out though, and second/third seasons are often when a show is firing on its best cylinders... so I have some optimism.
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Re: Invincible (2020, Amazon Prime)

Post by NotUv2 »

Femina wrote: 1 year agoInvincible's looking to have a great deal more HEART than The Boyz does... which is perhaps why It's tough for the show to ever sell that it NEEDS all that gore at the best of times.
The comic invented the paradigm that The Boys inhabits, AFAICT.

As someone coming to it fresh, I had no idea what the various blood splatters on the title cards meant until they happened. I'm glad of that. Every episode earned it, and in sometimes unexpected ways that sometimes involved emotional gore along with the physical horror. And the unexpected vector of the physical horror never failed to mess with me... likewise, the occasions where we got a reprieve from the brutality and gore...
Spoiler
(every single occasion of which was a reminder of what the Guardians of the Globe REALLY brought to the table and what the world was robbed of by Omni-Man's murder spree in Ep. 1. What the relatively light-hearted opening Guardians of the Globe sequence showed us, and what the eps following it showed us, is that what the Guardians did was a VERY FAR CRY from being easy, how profound the loss of those people really was... and also that Omni-Man really, ultimately gave no fucks about what they did at all, which comes to make sense given what we subsequently learn about his being an evil alien imperialist instead of the Helper he originally claimed to be.).
'Invincible' seems utterly 'Vincible' as does his father.
"Invincible's" name is obviously about aspiration rather than actuality at this point. It's a pretty obvious and not-at-all concealed theme of the series.

His father, though? Omni-Man has shrugged off massive threats at this point up to and including jacked-up alien monsters and 400 billion-dollars orbital lasers and has
Spoiler
surmounted the Justice League equivalent in-universe, Superman-equivalent inclusive more than once.
The characters involved can of course regrow teeth, bones, and organs on-demand with enough time and assistance: this was made very obvious in the first few episodes, I don't feel like that's a convincing objection so much as it's just part of the fictional world that you will either accept or not.
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Re: Invincible (2020, Amazon Prime)

Post by Philo Hunter »

Femina wrote: 1 year ago That's not new ground. Nothing here is new ground. I mean it's uncommon, but it's not new.
The greater cultural context of a show matters to how its audience is receiving it. It's not new or uncommon to you, but for a vast majority of its audience it has been. The dichotomy of the bright colors and seemingly traditional and predictable superhero narratives next to massive gore, violence, and trope breaking twists that veer far from that bright happy comic feel is something most people outside of hardcore nerdery are not used to. It's also what, for a lot of readers, made Invincible such a memorable read. The all those people coming to this show who don't really read comics and are into superhero stuff through the Marvel/DC movies and cartoons The Boys take on the genre was very original as is this cartoon.

There is a lot about this show's (and the comic's) structure that that aren't going to appeal to everyone. What has made this an amazing viewing experience for so many made it a painful or boring watch for others. It just kind of sounds like this show isn't for you and maybe I'm interpreting what you were saying wrong, but I kind of hope you don't try to power through the second season and just spend that time watching or reading something you will be a lot more likely to enjoy.
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Re: Invincible (2020, Amazon Prime)

Post by Mr. X »

The thing I like about the show is its not established characters. Problem with DC and Marvel is, unless the animation is a one shot, elseworld animation, nothing really happens to the main characters. In Invincible people do get killed off.
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Re: Invincible (2020, Amazon Prime)

Post by NotUv2 »

The unpredictable factor REALLY matters, all the moreso for those of us who haven't read the comic (although apparently, even that is no guarantee).
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Re: Invincible (2020, Amazon Prime)

Post by Femina »

NotUv2 wrote: 1 year ago The characters involved can of course regrow teeth, bones, and organs on-demand with enough time and assistance: this was made very obvious in the first few episodes, I don't feel like that's a convincing objection so much as it's just part of the fictional world that you will either accept or not.
That's NOT obvious. They make no mention of the ability to regrow teeth and never show it visually. As far as the narrative is concerned that leaves the viewer able to assume any number of a trillion reasons for why their teeth keep popping back into their heads, which is poor storytelling. A better solution is to just stop showing them spitting out teeth and we'll all stop wondering what the point of losing them IS... because losing their teeth isn't consequential it leaves the aftertaste that the ONLY reason people keep losing teeth is JUST to show busted teeth... which is dumb.
Spoiler
That is of course outside the one EXCEPTIONAL bit of visual horror in the final episode where Mark's front teeth are all bashed out and it shocks Omni-Man into an old memory. In the only episodes where the gore is convinces that it needs to be there at all... of course HIS teeth are all magically returned as well after that.
I guess we HAVE to assume that the medical place can regrow teeth... which is bizarre to me. They can't save a granny with a few gunshot wounds but they can regrow BONE well enough to quickly recreate teeth... something medical science has consistently been horrible at... grannies skin lesions from the gunshots ought to have been healed instantly if medical science has gotten far enough to quickly regenerate BONE. Aside from this answer, lacking an explanation in universe, we're actually just as free to assume looney tunes logic and that, like Bugs Bunny before them, superheroes are free to be beat to shit, or have anvils dropped on their heads respectively, UNLESS a Viltrimite does it, in which case their dead to keep the plot. It's not ordinarily such a problem for a show to have little holes like this it's just emblematic of the greater issue, that the gore ordinarily doesn't MEAN anything, and is JUST there to revel in itself in an otherwise respectable narrative that doesn't maintain a consistent enough tone to earn that kind of grotesque imagery... and often is weakened by it.
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Re: Invincible (2020, Amazon Prime)

Post by Philo Hunter »

NotUv2 wrote: 1 year ago The unpredictable factor REALLY matters, all the moreso for those of us who haven't read the comic (although apparently, even that is no guarantee).
As someone coming into this having loved the comics I can say they managed to both stay incredibly true to the comics while also making the show feel unpredictable! They added a lot of little things here and there that really helped flesh out the universe/characters. They also shifted around when different story arcs happen in a way that, even thought I "knew" where a story thread was going, I quickly found I didn't know WHEN it was going to happen.
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Re: Invincible (2020, Amazon Prime)

Post by NotUv2 »

Femina wrote: 1 year ago
NotUv2 wrote: 1 year ago The characters involved can of course regrow teeth, bones, and organs on-demand with enough time and assistance: this was made very obvious in the first few episodes, I don't feel like that's a convincing objection so much as it's just part of the fictional world that you will either accept or not.
That's NOT obvious. They make no mention of the ability to regrow teeth and never show it visually.
I should modify my statement: it was obvious to me from context that there were certain characters who had near-invulnerability and something like Ye Olde Healing Factor. Maybe that's just my awareness of comics tropes doing the heavy lifting, I dunno. But I was never particularly confused about why the GDA could heal this character and not that one, or by who was capable of recovering from near-fatal wounds and who wasn't: it was always clear to me that the tech combined with superhuman physiology could yield results in some cases but not others. And that different power sets required different measures, like
Spoiler
all the arcane shit that was necessary to bring Monster Girl back from the brink, for example. It does occur to me to wonder why it didn't occur to them to just put The Immortal's body back together, like the Mauler Twins do later on. I guess there are just gaps in their knowledge.
None of it took me out of the story, personally. YMMV.
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