Living in the shadow of the corona virus

[bushwackerbob]

Yup, protesting maskless is also pretty fucking stupid. Apparently the protests have not, in fact, caused major spikes, but it's still irresponsible as hell not to put the masks on.

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/ ... id19-surge

I totally agree. Please do not get me wrong, I do understand the need to get out there and protest the horrendous actions of this Scumbag Minneapolis cop, to ensure the death of Mr. Floyd is not forgotten and brushed aside, that the problems with the senseless murders of unarmed black men do not go ignored and not addressed, that we must keep this issue alive and hold our public officials accountable for the state of our police forces. I think we have to be smart about it though. Yes indeed, black lives do matter. You want to know what else matters? The health and safety of all of those individuals who were out there marching, not to mention their loved ones with whom they come in contact with, how about elderly parents or grandparents of these protesters who very easily could have picked up COVID-19 and thus become a possible death sentence for those poor folks, or those with pre-existing conditions or compromised immunity issues which raise the chances for fatalities in regards to COVID-19. You are certainly right, we definitely dodged a bullet with these unmasked protesters with no apparent or discernible spikes. I would hate to have had as one of the legacies of this BLM protest marches a consequence of a spike in COVID-19 cases and deaths, not to mention the personal guilt and pain it would have caused some of these protesters to come to the realization that they might have caused their loved ones to get sick or heaven forbid die.

[Bert]

Mask usage, especially in the U.S., is a minefield of complexity and political ideology. The simple answer to wearing a mask is just follow the science. Outdoor transmission of covid isn't really a thing. It's not that it's impossible, but it would require an infected person sneezing or coughing right into someone else's face. Covid is transmitted through extended indoor exposure to an infected person. Walking outside without a mask is quite safe. Sitting on a barstool close to other customers without a mask is asking to become infected. The problem is, many people struggle with the indoor vs outdoor concept. To be blunt, 50% of the population have an IQ below 100. In order to keep instructions as simple and easy to follow as possible, many jurisdictions just advise wearing a mask whenever outside the home. Sadly, thanks to the imbecilic president, mask use has also become politicized in much of the U.S., leading to people actually holding protests against mask usage on the grounds of protecting "freedom". It's a terrible abuse of the word - what about the freedom of others to not become infected? - but that's what happens when you elect an amoral narcissist whose only concern is reelection.

[DrDominator9]

Demanding that schools open or not get funding is putting children and educators and staff directly on the front line of this war against the virus. They can't even protect privileged baseball teams with daily testing and they think schools won't become hot spots in a week or two. Give me a break. As much as schooling is necessary, it seems insane to require it at this point in the pandemic considering how badly things are going.

[Mr. X]

https://legalinsurrection.com/2020/07/b ... -expected/
https://dcist.com/story/20/07/25/march- ... -sharpton/
So this should be outlawed and all attendees not wearing mask and not social distancing should be arrested? No gatherings larger than 50 people. DC has fines for not wearing masks.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/dc-exp ... with-fines

Is this social distancing?
https://www.rt.com/usa/497390-portland- ... -precinct/

So the law abiding pay the price with closed businesses, a crashed economy, unemployment and kids out of school while the "righteous altruistic" can ignore the law.. and only if they lean left or democrat?

Or does this social distancing rule only apply on a tuesday when the wind is blowing from the east?

My guess is covid will be magically cured on Nov 3.

[Damselbinder]

1) If you'd been paying attention, you'd have noticed that "the protesters should really wear masks; what are they thinking" has been a repeated refrain even from the more left leaning people of this thread.

2) If you are wrong about Covid being miraculously cured on November 3, how grovelling will your apology be?

[tallyho]

My guess is covid will be magically cured on Nov 3.

No, but but you might have a remotely competent government fighting it come January, which can only help.


Never understand the logic in burning public buildings down... that you then have to pay to rebuild. You may as well just set fire to what's in your own wallets.

I firmly believe all protests should practice social distancing and everyone able to should wear a mask full stop.

Whilst I can understand general civil rights protests again I think they should conform to health guidelines and I don't get the twats protesting against statues. Now is not the time for that kinda crap.

And violence is not the answer. Well unless it's 12 down "AHistory of..." (8 letters) a film starring Viggo Mortensen, V--L-N-E.
Then it is.

[Mr. X]

1) If you'd been paying attention, you'd have noticed that "the protesters should really wear masks; what are they thinking" has been a repeated refrain even from the more left leaning people of this thread.

2) If you are wrong about Covid being miraculously cured on November 3, how grovelling will your apology be?

1) Saying "they should" is not the same as jailing or fining them. That's a pass. Ok so then the bikers at Sturis "should" wear a mask.
Huge difference between "should" and fining someone, jailing them, forcing their business to close. One is asking, another is the use of force. Can you understand you cannot apply one set of rules to one group vs another based on your subjective views and political alignments. How can one run guilt trips crying about non-mask wearers endangering grandma when then not insisting on the same use of force against people being active in your political sphere. Are the rules the rules or do they only apply when convenient. "Should" is not the same as advocating force. You do understand the difference don't you?

2) Why are people like you so interested in grinding and bullying people into the dirt? What happened? All kidding aside I do think corona will magically not be an issue past the election just like BLM will greatly diminish. And so what if I'm wrong? What is your issue with the desire to bully people? Is this just classism?

[bushwackerbob]

Mask usage, especially in the U.S., is a minefield of complexity and political ideology. The simple answer to wearing a mask is just follow the science. Outdoor transmission of covid isn't really a thing. It's not that it's impossible, but it would require an infected person sneezing or coughing right into someone else's face. Covid is transmitted through extended indoor exposure to an infected person. Walking outside without a mask is quite safe. Sitting on a barstool close to other customers without a mask is asking to become infected. The problem is, many people struggle with the indoor vs outdoor concept. To be blunt, 50% of the population have an IQ below 100. In order to keep instructions as simple and easy to follow as possible, many jurisdictions just advise wearing a mask whenever outside the home. Sadly, thanks to the imbecilic president, mask use has also become politicized in much of the U.S., leading to people actually holding protests against mask usage on the grounds of protecting "freedom". It's a terrible abuse of the word - what about the freedom of others to not become infected? - but that's what happens when you elect an amoral narcissist whose only concern is reelection.

We are not talking about just "walking outside" though. There are guidelines in many jurisdictions in my country of congregations of no more than 50 people. One just has to look at those BLM protests to see the hundreds and thousands in attendance, most not wearing masks or standing six feet apart. There is a reason they are playing MLB games outside in stadiums without fans. It is just not safe at this time, just like these BLM marches. It's the same reason the college football season down here is in jeopardy. These are all outside endeavors. I think it's going to be difficult for any outdoor sports league to complete a season this Summer or Fall because of COVID-19. Now is not the time to be complacent and take unnecessary risks with people congregating in large numbers. One does not have to have an IQ much above 100 to figure out the danger still exists for potential outside transmission for congregations of people in large numbers. We simply cannot take the foot off the gas pedal.

[Damselbinder]

1) If you'd been paying attention, you'd have noticed that "the protesters should really wear masks; what are they thinking" has been a repeated refrain even from the more left leaning people of this thread.

2) If you are wrong about Covid being miraculously cured on November 3, how grovelling will your apology be?

1) Saying "they should" is not the same as jailing or fining them. That's a pass. Ok so then the bikers at Sturis "should" wear a mask.
Huge difference between "should" and fining someone, jailing them, forcing their business to close. One is asking, another is the use of force. Can you understand you cannot apply one set of rules to one group vs another based on your subjective views and political alignments. How can one run guilt trips crying about non-mask wearers endangering grandma when then not insisting on the same use of force against people being active in your political sphere. Are the rules the rules or do they only apply when convenient. "Should" is not the same as advocating force. You do understand the difference don't you?

2) Why are people like you so interested in grinding and bullying people into the dirt? What happened? All kidding aside I do think corona will magically not be an issue past the election just like BLM will greatly diminish. And so what if I'm wrong? What is your issue with the desire to bully people? Is this just classism?

1) Well, if it's illegal in a particular place not to wear a mask, then yeah, sure. Absolutely people should be arrested. If you're in a county/whatever that's imposed some sort of all-purpose ban on going outside maskless, then yeah sure protesters should be arrested for flouting such laws. I think you're assuming that my view is more forgiving than it is.

2) Mr X, you made a claim - that coronavirus will suddenly not be a big problem after the election, despite the fact that there's an entire planet of people grappling with this virus and not just America - that was in such mind-boggling defiance of reality that I felt morally compelled to say something. Perhaps my tone was a little strong. If so, I apologise. But what you are saying is absurd. "So what if I'm wrong"? I'll tell you what. What it will mean is that you have belittled and denied the reality - or at least the extent - that has killed more than 100,000 of your countrymen, and caused the greatest crisis of our time. What it will mean is that, if you can ignore reality which is so manifestly in front of your face, I would take a long, long think about basically every single view you hold, and what your basis for it is.

And of course, if Covid IS miraculously cured after November 3rd, I will happily do the same. Nothing indeed, would make me happier than to know that you're right about this and I am wrong. The world will be in a much better state if you're right.

But you aren't.

[tallyho]

All kidding aside I do think corona will magically not be an issue past the election just like BLM will greatly diminish.

That is such a stupid thing to say. It's back to Trump saying it'll all go away. It's possibly the most stupid post I have read on this forum (and I've read my own posts!)

760,000 dead globally and rising, Rampant infection rates across the US and averaging 7000 dead a week.

And all that's gonna stop being an issue in 12 weeks time because really it's all about the election? Only way that has a remote chance is if there Is a cure found and that's looking pretty unlikely. That's my polite way of saying not a hope of it being found, tested, mass produced, distributed and used in 12 weeks. Winter flu epidemic is gonna hit on top of it with very similar symptoms.

This is gonna be an issue for years to come.

[Bert]

We are not talking about just "walking outside" though. There are guidelines in many jurisdictions in my country of congregations of no more than 50 people. One just has to look at those BLM protests to see the hundreds and thousands in attendance, most not wearing masks or standing six feet apart. There is a reason they are playing MLB games outside in stadiums without fans. It is just not safe at this time, just like these BLM marches. It's the same reason the college football season down here is in jeopardy. These are all outside endeavors. I think it's going to be difficult for any outdoor sports league to complete a season this Summer or Fall because of COVID-19. Now is not the time to be complacent and take unnecessary risks with people congregating in large numbers. One does not have to have an IQ much above 100 to figure out the danger still exists for potential outside transmission for congregations of people in large numbers. We simply cannot take the foot off the gas pedal.

I'm not saying holding an outdoor demonstration is completely without risk, but hasn't it been shown that the demonstrations that have taken place did not result in spikes in infections? Whereas Trump's Tulsa rally, held indoors with few masks, did result in a spike of infections? Look, democratic societies have always made allowances for peaceful demonstrations. It's the most basic form of freedom of speech. The importance of exercising that right carries a lot of weight. Plus, it's outdoors where the risk of transmission is far lower.

[tallyho]

Another 1400 plus dead yesterday. But good to see your Prez focused on the things that matter, like shower power when washing his hair.
Jesus H. Christ.
You couldn't make it up.

[bushwackerbob]

We are not talking about just "walking outside" though. There are guidelines in many jurisdictions in my country of congregations of no more than 50 people. One just has to look at those BLM protests to see the hundreds and thousands in attendance, most not wearing masks or standing six feet apart. There is a reason they are playing MLB games outside in stadiums without fans. It is just not safe at this time, just like these BLM marches. It's the same reason the college football season down here is in jeopardy. These are all outside endeavors. I think it's going to be difficult for any outdoor sports league to complete a season this Summer or Fall because of COVID-19. Now is not the time to be complacent and take unnecessary risks with people congregating in large numbers. One does not have to have an IQ much above 100 to figure out the danger still exists for potential outside transmission for congregations of people in large numbers. We simply cannot take the foot off the gas pedal.

I'm not saying holding an outdoor demonstration is completely without risk, but hasn't it been shown that the demonstrations that have taken place did not result in spikes in infections? Whereas Trump's Tulsa rally, held indoors with few masks, did result in a spike of infections? Look, democratic societies have always made allowances for peaceful demonstrations. It's the most basic form of freedom of speech. The importance of exercising that right carries a lot of weight. Plus, it's outdoors where the risk of transmission is far lower.

Don't get me wrong, I am not one of these militant absolute lockdown guys. I find myself on the other side of the argument when my brother thinks we should lock everything down except supermarkets for 9 to 12 months until we get a handle on this thing which is simply not a practical solution. I know that I am surely not alone during this pandemic in that we have all had loved ones pass away during this time and have not had the opportunity to have had funerals or other memorial services. Sadly, this sacrifice has had to be made so that we as a society can get through this difficult time. I think societal rules and regulations get muddled and adherence to those rules and regulations break down when we make exceptions for these rules. Some folks will conclude "if BLM marches are OK and these dopes are not wearing masks and not staying six feet apart and the government is tacitly accepting these get togethers then why should I comply with these orders". Just to make clear, that is not my opinion, just that I can see the argument that if those safety measures apply to me, then they should apply to everyone else as well. This COVID-19 issue is simply not a situational ethics thing, it should apply to everyone of every race, creed, or cause. The LT. Governor in my state early on in this epidemic (and keep in mind, we were and are a heavily locked down state here in MA) had a graduation party at her family's house where over 25 people attended. I think if given the opportunity we could all of us rationalize a reason to break these rules of no more than 50 people congregating outside, but we have to be smart about this and be intellectually consistent and absolute in regards to these rules and regulations. It's really not about the freedom of speech, but about the intelligence and consideration of how, when, and where that speech takes place. Yes, outdoor transmission risk is lower than indoors, but just as we mocked those moronic dingleberries who jammed those FL beaches early in this pandemic, we must also articulate what a bad idea it is right now to congregate for any reason. Just because a cause or movement is righteous and just, does not justify people in the hundreds and thousands congregating and potentially prolonging this pandemic. It is surely a noble cause, but it is just not safe.

[Bert]

That's a good argument.

[Dazzle1]

You are right about the exceptions.

The BLM protesters, the rioters in major cities get a pass. The latter of which are not protesting the bogus police brutality accusation they are brown shirt thugs

Yet gym owners in NJ get arrested, while the NJ governor violates the rules himself

[tallyho]

It comes to something when 500 dead marks a good day, but there it is, 516 dead yesterday in US.

Stay safe everybody

[Bert]

the bogus police brutality accusation

Aaand Dazzle1 has made it onto my "foes" list along with Mr.X. Now if only I can remember to log in before looking at posts so I don't have to see their reality impaired diatribes.

[bushwackerbob]

I know this is getting a little off topic, but let me just say this. When BLM organizers get together to organize these protests, some may call me naive, but I just do not think that these leaders are saying " boy, after the peaceful marches end, let's trash the city, loot the stores, and incite violence and mayhem". Any BLM leader that has a brain would conclude that type of unlawful activity would inevitably undermine their overall message of raising awareness of BLM issues.

[Damselbinder]

I would very much hope that we still live in a world where "not assuming everybody is secretly plotting the downfall of society" is just sensible, not naive.

[Dazzle1]

I know this is getting a little off topic, but let me just say this. When BLM organizers get together to organize these protests, some may call me naive, but I just do not think that these leaders are saying " boy, after the peaceful marches end, let's trash the city, loot the stores, and incite violence and mayhem". Any BLM leader that has a brain would conclude that type of unlawful activity would inevitably undermine their overall message of raising awareness of BLM issues.

Bret like the BLM and Antifa thugs can't stand when their lies are called out

George Floyd was a rare criminal exception

Most of the accusation from BLM are lie just like systemic racism in 2020 is a lie

[Damselbinder]

Yeah, I can't imagine people on the other side of this debate getting angry when their false claims are disproven or challenged. In no way would they just stamp their feet, insist on the immorality of their enemies and start throwing invective at people.

Never ever.

[bushwackerbob]

I know this is getting a little off topic, but let me just say this. When BLM organizers get together to organize these protests, some may call me naive, but I just do not think that these leaders are saying " boy, after the peaceful marches end, let's trash the city, loot the stores, and incite violence and mayhem". Any BLM leader that has a brain would conclude that type of unlawful activity would inevitably undermine their overall message of raising awareness of BLM issues.

Bret like the BLM and Antifa thugs can't stand when their lies are called out

George Floyd was a rare criminal exception

Most of the accusation from BLM are lie just like systemic racism in 2020 is a lie

Way too many criminal exceptions out there. One is too many and we have had more than one tragic death, not to mention the non lethal mistreatment that many African Americans suffer on the account of cops. It really does not take away from or diminish conservative ideologies to admit that there may be a problem in our society in how a certain number of bad racist cops mistreat African Americans. Also, I will not judge anyone voting for Biden based on the fact that Biden was accused of raping one of his former staffers, and furthermore, I will not judge VP candidate Kamala Harris, as she said she believed Biden's accuser, believed Biden was a segregationist, and later on decided to become his VP pick.

[tallyho]

Wow. A woman changes her mind. Who'da thunk it?

[bushwackerbob]

Wow. A woman changes her mind. Who'da thunk it?

Yeah, real timely and convenient, believing someone a segregationist, someone who feels that whites and blacks going to separate schools is not necessarily a bad thing, and someone who believes that a man in a position of power is guilty of raping a junior staffer, and then months later has a "change of heart" and later agrees to be his VP pick. I guess you are right, Harris is fickle.

[Damselbinder]

Why would it be so bad if Harris has allied with Biden out of political convenience? Even if it's wrong, the general left-wing consensus is that Donald Trump is the worst president in the history of the United States. Why would it be bad to make a political alliance to defeat him, especially if you really believed Trump's presidency was so destructive, and getting him out of power was so important?

(N.B.: this argument still applies even if Trump is the bestest prez evar: the point is how he is PERCEIVED)

[bushwackerbob]

No, it would not be so bad, but that is not the question here. Nobody that votes for Biden gets to judge or question another persons morals or ethics for voting for Trump based on Biden's checkered history with the truth and rape allegations as well. I also find that as a moderator, tally's comments to be inappropriate in directly assaulting one's ethics, morals and humanity for voting for a particular candidate. Those kinds of personal attacks are what I find destructive and not conducive to civilized discourse. Biden's got skeletons as well. Say what you want about what I have posted on here, but I have never questioned anyone's ethics or morality, and if I was a moderator here, I think I would know better than to do so. No candidate has the moral high ground here as much as any Trump hater would hate to acknowledge here.

[Damselbinder]

I'm sorry, but that is a false equivalence. There's a tendency for people to compare any two political figures where neither of them is morally unimpeachable and say "oh well it's the same." Biden has said, and done, some stupid shit. It does not come CLOSE the rank levels of corruption surrounding Trump and his administration. There is a difference between a (seriously) morally imperfect person, and a venal kleptocrat.

If I choose the lesser of two evils, I don't think it's all that unreasonable to judge people who pick the GREATER of two evils.

[tallyho]

Sorry I posted it as indicative of a non partizan judgement on him and his supporters rather than on political policy and I did it to move the posts away from the way they were going as it was turning into a "Cops aren't - II" thread.
It's worked.
BUT let's be fair we are talking about a lying criminal narcissist with literally dozens of assault claims against him as well as countless criminal procedures pending from tax fraud to sexual assault to corruption so if you are happy to throw your lot behind such a man then you will be judged on that position.
I don't know the details of what Biden is alleged to have done but I would say one unproven allegation does not a sexual assaulter make, unlike 10 and a confession on tape, which does kinda hint at a possibly guilty man. Especially the confession bit. Possibly the only honest thing he has said in the last two decades.

[Damselbinder]

Sorry I posted it as indicative of a non partizan judgement on him and his supporters rather than on political policy and I did it to move the posts away from the way they were going as it was turning into a "Cops aren't - II" thread.
It's worked.
BUT let's be fair we are talking about a lying criminal narcissist with literally dozens of assault claims against him as well as countless criminal procedures pending from tax fraud to sexual assault to corruption so if you are happy to throw your lot behind such a man then you will be judged on that position.
I don't know the details of what Biden is alleged to have done but I would say one unproven allegation does not a sexual assaulter make, unlike 10 and a confession on tape, which does kinda hint at a possibly guilty man. Especially the confession bit. Possibly the only honest thing he has said in the last two decades.

That and "I wouldn't go to France."

I mean

maybe he really wouldn't.

[Bert]

Nobody that votes for Biden gets to judge or question another persons morals or ethics for voting for Trump based on Biden's checkered history with the truth and rape allegations as well.

Now THAT is a ridiculous argument. Of course they do! There isn't a single meaningful metric for presidential suitability at which Biden doesn't best Trump. He may not have been the best person in the crowded Democratic field, but he is a vastly, if not immeasurably better person to sit in the Oval Office than Donald Trump. Trump's election is a stain on the American electorate that will take decades to overcome. He's a cheat, a liar, a conman, a bully, an absurd publicity hound, a fool and a vindictive thug. He cheats at golf, on his multiple wives, on banks, contractors, business partners, the IRS, donors to charity and his own family. He's a pig who brags about molesting women and how he'd be dating Ivanka if she wasn't his daughter. He mocks disabled reporters, feuds with dead Senators and Gold Star families, snatches babies from their mothers' arms and detains them in squalid conditions, calls African nations "shithole countries", praises neo-nazis chanting antisemitic phrases and takes Putin's word over his own vast intelligence agencies. Please note that none of these examples of Trump's obvious unsuitability for president has anything to do with political ideology. Trump isn't awful because he's Republican, he's awful because he's a sick and revolting human being.

So yes, even people who vote for Biden, an imperfect person, can marvel at the moral depravity of someone instead choosing a man almost uniquely unqualified to be president of the United States.

[tallyho]

After that little sojourn, back to the virus.

542 dead in US yesterday and 40,000 new infections. Still worryingly high figures but at least down on what they have been the last 2 weeks as an average.

I hope we don't see a spread of it in Belarus after the anti Loveshenko protests. Tremendous to see state owned factories going on strike and great to see the bastard completely dumbstruck by the scale of the protests. For those who have not followed it the dictator of 26 years rigged the election and won by a ridiculous margin, 80% - 10%. which just shows the contempt he had that he couldn't even rig an election plausibly and didn't bother to try. Cue a wave of protests and strikes even by the state run TV station..Lets hope it doesn't end in either a hard line clamp down (they tried that last week and the beatings by the riot police and 6000 arrests haven't worked) or a large spike in virus cases after the big anti govt rallies.

[Femina]

I mean... I'm gonna admit I'm not keen on Biden either. I get his youtube ads consistently and it sounds like he's barely cognizant enough to slur through his sentences. He's simply all we have to vote for instead of the the lying, bigoted, sexist, racist idiot.

But I want to be clear here... I'm NOT happy about our alternative here either... it's only that the situation as of now is untenable. I'm embarrassed to be an American these days.

[Abductorenmadrid]

Slightly concerning news here in Madrid, a friend of the neighbours works as a doctor in the city and it seems the situation is getting noticeably worse again there. I suspect restrictions are gong to be coming back into force and we are going to be in for an isolated Autumn and winter :(

[tallyho]

That's grim news AEM. I only go out once a week for two hours and haven't been to the pub yet since they reopened was gonna give it another month to see if there was a second spike. Its starting to look like it will be so, in the countries that have opened up already so not looking good.
Looks like we will have restrictions coming back in just as I was gonna go out again.

[bushwackerbob]

Nobody that votes for Biden gets to judge or question another persons morals or ethics for voting for Trump based on Biden's checkered history with the truth and rape allegations as well.

Now THAT is a ridiculous argument. Of course they do! There isn't a single meaningful metric for presidential suitability at which Biden doesn't best Trump. He may not have been the best person in the crowded Democratic field, but he is a vastly, if not immeasurably better person to sit in the Oval Office than Donald Trump. Trump's election is a stain on the American electorate that will take decades to overcome. He's a cheat, a liar, a conman, a bully, an absurd publicity hound, a fool and a vindictive thug. He cheats at golf, on his multiple wives, on banks, contractors, business partners, the IRS, donors to charity and his own family. He's a pig who brags about molesting women and how he'd be dating Ivanka if she wasn't his daughter. He mocks disabled reporters, feuds with dead Senators and Gold Star families, snatches babies from their mothers' arms and detains them in squalid conditions, calls African nations "shithole countries", praises neo-nazis chanting antisemitic phrases and takes Putin's word over his own vast intelligence agencies. Please note that none of these examples of Trump's obvious unsuitability for president has anything to do with political ideology. Trump isn't awful because he's Republican, he's awful because he's a sick and revolting human being.

So yes, even people who vote for Biden, an imperfect person, can marvel at the moral depravity of someone instead choosing a man almost uniquely unqualified to be president of the United States.

I am sorry guys in the UK, Canada, and everywhere else, socialism is not for me. I want a president that believes in the power of the individual, not the power of big government, I want a president who actually believes in the Constitution and appoints justices that believe in it as well, I want smaller government, not an intrusive big government that constantly gets involved with regulating and over regulating people's lives, a government that believes in lower taxation and not increased taxation that begets wasteful spending, an intrinsic belief that the individual knows better how to spend one's money than the government, a man in the oval office who is not afraid to speak out against groups such as Antifa, and decry the violence and mayhem that is happening on our streets. You guys in the UK, Canada and elsewhere can have your socialism, I am sure it works just jollyo fine in your guys neck of the woods but I do not want it in my country. Please do not come at me with this morality play on Trump, the Dems and libs sold their souls in 1988 and 1992 for Bill and Hillary Clinton and you can't buy it back, you guys sold your souls to the devil (or was it Jeffrey Epstein) so you don't have a leg or a stained blue dress to stand on. Between the shady land deals, the miraculous cattle futures income, the BJ's in the oval office, the countless affairs, the accusation of rape by Juanita Broderick, lying in a deposition (don't you remember his "it depends on the definition of what is is") Hillary being in charge of destroying the lives of those women that came forward against her husband (they called it the bimbo eruptions squad), missing FBI personnel files that miraculously were found in the White House gym. You libs held your nose, even defended slick Willie, and voted him in twice! So you libs do not get to get on your high horse with this Trump stuff, so spare me your righteous indignation, hypocracy, and double standards because you simply do not like him or his politics. You left your souls back in 88 and 92 and you can't get it back. What the libs did in 88 and 92 was normalize and make excuses for all sorts of personal behavior as long as the president did "good things". I am just using the same playbook as the libs used in 88 and 92, what's good for the goose is good for the gander. If libs can give Clinton a pass for his personal foibles and personality defects because he fights for the causes they believe in, then I damn well can do the same with Trump.

[Damselbinder]

Uh, hi, yeah, I uh

I think actually
1) Many of us aren't American citizens, so couldn't have voted for Clinton
2) Many of us were, like, 1 years old when Billiam came to power, so couldn't have voted for Clinton.
3) A president who believes in the constitution? This is a man who has openly used his position as president to endorse products. He has asserted that "his authority is total".
4) There is nothing illogical about saying both "Bill Clinton was a shitty president" and "Donald Trump is an even shittier president."
5) Trump has "courageously" failed to speak out with any force against actual genuine neo-Nazis (remember the "a lot of fine people" comment?)
6) Antifa is barely a thing. Rioting is bad. Boo to rioting. Imprison people who, y'know, do the violence. That doesn't mean Antifa is some Illuminati-esque anti-government NGO-superpower.
7 - and here's the big one) What exactly is it that you think socialism is? All that rugged individualism didn't help, oh I don't know, the entire global financial industry in 2008, which needed billions and billions in government money to stay afloat, a position they only got into because of hideous deregulation. The problem with the "people know how to spend their money better than the government" argument is that a whole mess of people, without government intervention, *don't have any money to spend*.

[Dazzle1]

Uh, hi, yeah, I uh

I think actually
1) Many of us aren't American citizens, so couldn't have voted for Clinton
2) Many of us were, like, 1 years old when Billiam came to power, so couldn't have voted for Clinton.
3) A president who believes in the constitution? This is a man who has openly used his position as president to endorse products. He has asserted that "his authority is total".
4) There is nothing illogical about saying both "Bill Clinton was a shitty president" and "Donald Trump is an even shittier president."
5) Trump has "courageously" failed to speak out with any force against actual genuine neo-Nazis (remember the "a lot of fine people" comment?)
6) Antifa is barely a thing. Rioting is bad. Boo to rioting. Imprison people who, y'know, do the violence. That doesn't mean Antifa is some Illuminati-esque anti-government NGO-superpower.
7 - and here's the big one) What exactly is it that you think socialism is? All that rugged individualism didn't help, oh I don't know, the entire global financial industry in 2008, which needed billions and billions in government money to stay afloat, a position they only got into because of hideous deregulation. The problem with the "people know how to spend their money better than the government" argument is that a whole mess of people, without government intervention, *don't have any money to spend*.

5 The Neo Nazis are Antifa
6 Antifa are the new BrownShirts they are the one in Portland and Seattle

Now how come the Dems won't come out about Antifa or the Nazs wanabeees of the Squad all of whom support Antifa

[batgirl1969]

So I know 2020 is the end of life as we know it on Earth....I was banned from Deviantart permanantly after over 10 years!!! 10 YEARS!!!!! The art police snowflakes were offended by stories told from my point of view, me...one of their own so called protected lgbtq status female professionals....like a kick to cunt!!! its sad when even DEVIANTs can't share "art" on a site like that...oh well...hurry up Asteroid.....we are all waiting

[tallyho]

I want a president who actually believes in the Constitution

And I thought you were for Trump.

Looks like Kanye is the lad for you then, eh.

[bushwackerbob]

There are many tallyholes out there who do live here and feel the way he does. Most people on the left at the time in the media, politics, and his followers gave him a pass, some of these same news organizations have different rules for President Trump. Historically speaking, conservatives tend to adhere to a more strict interpretation of the Constitution because it generally (not always) tends to agree with conservative principles whereas liberal ideologies oftentimes find themselves at odds with U.S Constitutional law, which is why we often hear about liberal activist judges on the courts, and a belief among some that liberals do not see the Constitution as an inviolate thing, but merely as a piece of paper that means what they want it to mean, not what it objectively means. All in all, I can't bring myself to say that Clinton was a shitty president, he did some good things, but his character was flawed for a lot of reasons and the voters and the media presumably put aside their distaste for his character defects and voted him in for two terms. The new normal was born, it's just that conservatives were late to this realization, that dems had an almost 30 year head start on this realization that personal foibles and character flaws do not matter as much if you are a U.S citizen and lean towards the right that you ignore the personal stuff and vote for the candidate that most aligns with what you believe in ideologically. Name me ONE person on the left that calls Clinton a shitty president. The media cultishly and slavishly defended Clinton when he was in office. I think when you are a president, or a presidential candidate, when you see these horrifying and violent images coming out of our cities, that if you want to be a leader, you call out these Antifa thugs, especially when their presence looms so large in videos and on the news, that it would not cost Biden anything to call out those Antifa thugs, heck he would probably gain some votes with a condemnation. I never said our economic system was perfect, the government under a previous administration forced banks to sell to people who had no business getting loans to buy houses, and to be sure, there were bad actors involved in making bad and reckless decisions, but sorry, no sale here, I will stay with my superior American economic model and you can sell your socialism heavily regulated version down the street to Mexico or Canada. No sale here.

[Bert]

its sad when even DEVIANTs can't share "art" on a site like that...oh well...hurry up Asteroid.....we are all waiting

You seem disappointed, which is understandable. But the whole asteroid thing seems like overkill from where I'm standing...and looking up nervously.

[batgirl1969]

its sad when even DEVIANTs can't share "art" on a site like that...oh well...hurry up Asteroid.....we are all waiting

You seem disappointed, which is understandable. But the whole asteroid thing seems like overkill from where I'm standing...and looking up nervously.

True...maybe just kidnapper aliens that like to probe human bodies...insert cold stainless steel devices into our bodies causing pain and pleasure would be better???
or a strand of ever increasing in size anal beads(Tallyho I didn't want you to think I was kidnapped again!) lol

[Bert]

Nobody that votes for Biden gets to judge or question another persons morals or ethics for voting for Trump based on Biden's checkered history with the truth and rape allegations as well.

Now THAT is a ridiculous argument. Of course they do! There isn't a single meaningful metric for presidential suitability at which Biden doesn't best Trump. He may not have been the best person in the crowded Democratic field, but he is a vastly, if not immeasurably better person to sit in the Oval Office than Donald Trump. Trump's election is a stain on the American electorate that will take decades to overcome. He's a cheat, a liar, a conman, a bully, an absurd publicity hound, a fool and a vindictive thug. He cheats at golf, on his multiple wives, on banks, contractors, business partners, the IRS, donors to charity and his own family. He's a pig who brags about molesting women and how he'd be dating Ivanka if she wasn't his daughter. He mocks disabled reporters, feuds with dead Senators and Gold Star families, snatches babies from their mothers' arms and detains them in squalid conditions, calls African nations "shithole countries", praises neo-nazis chanting antisemitic phrases and takes Putin's word over his own vast intelligence agencies. Please note that none of these examples of Trump's obvious unsuitability for president has anything to do with political ideology. Trump isn't awful because he's Republican, he's awful because he's a sick and revolting human being.

So yes, even people who vote for Biden, an imperfect person, can marvel at the moral depravity of someone instead choosing a man almost uniquely unqualified to be president of the United States.

I am sorry guys in the UK, Canada, and everywhere else, socialism is not for me. I want a president that believes in the power of the individual, not the power of big government, I want a president who actually believes in the Constitution and appoints justices that believe in it as well, I want smaller government, not an intrusive big government that constantly gets involved with regulating and over regulating people's lives, a government that believes in lower taxation and not increased taxation that begets wasteful spending, an intrinsic belief that the individual knows better how to spend one's money than the government, a man in the oval office who is not afraid to speak out against groups such as Antifa, and decry the violence and mayhem that is happening on our streets. You guys in the UK, Canada and elsewhere can have your socialism, I am sure it works just jollyo fine in your guys neck of the woods but I do not want it in my country. Please do not come at me with this morality play on Trump, the Dems and libs sold their souls in 1988 and 1992 for Bill and Hillary Clinton and you can't buy it back, you guys sold your souls to the devil (or was it Jeffrey Epstein) so you don't have a leg or a stained blue dress to stand on. Between the shady land deals, the miraculous cattle futures income, the BJ's in the oval office, the countless affairs, the accusation of rape by Juanita Broderick, lying in a deposition (don't you remember his "it depends on the definition of what is is") Hillary being in charge of destroying the lives of those women that came forward against her husband (they called it the bimbo eruptions squad), missing FBI personnel files that miraculously were found in the White House gym. You libs held your nose, even defended slick Willie, and voted him in twice! So you libs do not get to get on your high horse with this Trump stuff, so spare me your righteous indignation, hypocracy, and double standards because you simply do not like him or his politics. You left your souls back in 88 and 92 and you can't get it back. What the libs did in 88 and 92 was normalize and make excuses for all sorts of personal behavior as long as the president did "good things". I am just using the same playbook as the libs used in 88 and 92, what's good for the goose is good for the gander. If libs can give Clinton a pass for his personal foibles and personality defects because he fights for the causes they believe in, then I damn well can do the same with Trump.

Ah, the old bait and switch. You said there's a moral equivalency between Biden and Trump. I, and others, said no, that's a wildly false equivalency. You reply with political ideology, which I expressly said had nothing to do with the point, and brought up Bill Clinton, who was president over two decades ago. Bait and switch.

To entertain your distraction for a minute, sure, let's talk about Clinton. He was a sex addict and he lied about getting a blow job from an intern. Not admirable traits. He was impeached for those traits and it badly tarnished his reputation. Still, I'm surprised you went there, as Clinton moved the Democratic party to the right during his tenure and was actually a pretty good president. Now, as far as moral equivalency is concerned, nope, there's still no comparison between Clinton and Trump. Clinton got a BJ from an intern while married, and lied to cover it up. Again, hardly admirable. But compared to the completely amoral orange thug currently in the WH, Clinton was a choir boy. Furthermore, morally deficient Clinton was a decent president, while morally bankrupt Trump has been a catastrophic president. 170,000 dead, many due to Trump's consistent and ongoing mishandling of the pandemic. Racist sympathizing, Q-Anon supporting, immigrant abusing, ally insulting, dictator coddling Trump is easily the worst president in living memory.

A number of staunch conservatives endorsed Biden last night. Two well funded conservative groups are putting out ads attacking Trump. And consider this - the first two years of Trump's presidency he was constrained by inexperience, ignorance of government and some responsible aides who did their best to protect the country from his worst instincts. Now he knows the system, the adults in the room are all gone, replaced by sycophants and lackeys, and he's proven he is above the law and can't be impeached by a Republican Senate. Plus he (theoretically) can't run again so he no longer needs to constrain himself to keep from pissing off his voters. Trump's first term badly damaged America. A second term would destroy it.

[tallyho]

On the virus front in the UK BoJo The Clown has now re branded the English Health Board because that's what we really needed in the middle of this mess, a pointless bureaucratic reorganisation.
It's widely believed they are doing so purely to blame the EHB for the govt mishandling of the pandemic.
I suspect this will be proved to be the case

[tallyho]

its sad when even DEVIANTs can't share "art" on a site like that...oh well...hurry up Asteroid.....we are all waiting

You seem disappointed, which is understandable. But the whole asteroid thing seems like overkill from where I'm standing...and looking up nervously.

True...maybe just kidnapper aliens that like to probe human bodies...insert cold stainless steel devices into our bodies causing pain and pleasure would be better???
or a strand of ever increasing in size anal beads(Tallyho I didn't want you to think I was kidnapped again!) lol

That's my gal!

[Abductorenmadrid]

That's grim news AEM. I only go out once a week for two hours and haven't been to the pub yet since they reopened was gonna give it another month to see if there was a second spike. Its starting to look like it will be so, in the countries that have opened up already so not looking good.
Looks like we will have restrictions coming back in just as I was gonna go out again.

The ebb and flow of this thing would make me think the UK will unfortunately be seeing a resurgence in a few weeks. We keep hearing about "case" numbers increasing here but its not clear if those are +ve test results on people who are just asymptomatic, or if they are poor unfortunates becoming unwell and ending up in hospital beds.

Stay safe, amigos!

[bushwackerbob]

Nobody that votes for Biden gets to judge or question another persons morals or ethics for voting for Trump based on Biden's checkered history with the truth and rape allegations as well.

Now THAT is a ridiculous argument. Of course they do! There isn't a single meaningful metric for presidential suitability at which Biden doesn't best Trump. He may not have been the best person in the crowded Democratic field, but he is a vastly, if not immeasurably better person to sit in the Oval Office than Donald Trump. Trump's election is a stain on the American electorate that will take decades to overcome. He's a cheat, a liar, a conman, a bully, an absurd publicity hound, a fool and a vindictive thug. He cheats at golf, on his multiple wives, on banks, contractors, business partners, the IRS, donors to charity and his own family. He's a pig who brags about molesting women and how he'd be dating Ivanka if she wasn't his daughter. He mocks disabled reporters, feuds with dead Senators and Gold Star families, snatches babies from their mothers' arms and detains them in squalid conditions, calls African nations "shithole countries", praises neo-nazis chanting antisemitic phrases and takes Putin's word over his own vast intelligence agencies. Please note that none of these examples of Trump's obvious unsuitability for president has anything to do with political ideology. Trump isn't awful because he's Republican, he's awful because he's a sick and revolting human being.

So yes, even people who vote for Biden, an imperfect person, can marvel at the moral depravity of someone instead choosing a man almost uniquely unqualified to be president of the United States.

I am sorry guys in the UK, Canada, and everywhere else, socialism is not for me. I want a president that believes in the power of the individual, not the power of big government, I want a president who actually believes in the Constitution and appoints justices that believe in it as well, I want smaller government, not an intrusive big government that constantly gets involved with regulating and over regulating people's lives, a government that believes in lower taxation and not increased taxation that begets wasteful spending, an intrinsic belief that the individual knows better how to spend one's money than the government, a man in the oval office who is not afraid to speak out against groups such as Antifa, and decry the violence and mayhem that is happening on our streets. You guys in the UK, Canada and elsewhere can have your socialism, I am sure it works just jollyo fine in your guys neck of the woods but I do not want it in my country. Please do not come at me with this morality play on Trump, the Dems and libs sold their souls in 1988 and 1992 for Bill and Hillary Clinton and you can't buy it back, you guys sold your souls to the devil (or was it Jeffrey Epstein) so you don't have a leg or a stained blue dress to stand on. Between the shady land deals, the miraculous cattle futures income, the BJ's in the oval office, the countless affairs, the accusation of rape by Juanita Broderick, lying in a deposition (don't you remember his "it depends on the definition of what is is") Hillary being in charge of destroying the lives of those women that came forward against her husband (they called it the bimbo eruptions squad), missing FBI personnel files that miraculously were found in the White House gym. You libs held your nose, even defended slick Willie, and voted him in twice! So you libs do not get to get on your high horse with this Trump stuff, so spare me your righteous indignation, hypocracy, and double standards because you simply do not like him or his politics. You left your souls back in 88 and 92 and you can't get it back. What the libs did in 88 and 92 was normalize and make excuses for all sorts of personal behavior as long as the president did "good things". I am just using the same playbook as the libs used in 88 and 92, what's good for the goose is good for the gander. If libs can give Clinton a pass for his personal foibles and personality defects because he fights for the causes they believe in, then I damn well can do the same with Trump.

Ah, the old bait and switch. You said there's a moral equivalency between Biden and Trump. I, and others, said no, that's a wildly false equivalency. You reply with political ideology, which I expressly said had nothing to do with the point, and brought up Bill Clinton, who was president over two decades ago. Bait and switch.

To entertain your distraction for a minute, sure, let's talk about Clinton. He was a sex addict and he lied about getting a blow job from an intern. Not admirable traits. He was impeached for those traits and it badly tarnished his reputation. Still, I'm surprised you went there, as Clinton moved the Democratic party to the right during his tenure and was actually a pretty good president. Now, as far as moral equivalency is concerned, nope, there's still no comparison between Clinton and Trump. Clinton got a BJ from an intern while married, and lied to cover it up. Again, hardly admirable. But compared to the completely amoral orange thug currently in the WH, Clinton was a choir boy. Furthermore, morally deficient Clinton was a decent president, while morally bankrupt Trump has been a catastrophic president. 170,000 dead, many due to Trump's consistent and ongoing mishandling of the pandemic. Racist sympathizing, Q-Anon supporting, immigrant abusing, ally insulting, dictator coddling Trump is easily the worst president in living memory.

A number of staunch conservatives endorsed Biden last night. Two well funded conservative groups are putting out ads attacking Trump. And consider this - the first two years of Trump's presidency he was constrained by inexperience, ignorance of government and some responsible aides who did their best to protect the country from his worst instincts. Now he knows the system, the adults in the room are all gone, replaced by sycophants and lackeys, and he's proven he is above the law and can't be impeached by a Republican Senate. Plus he (theoretically) can't run again so he no longer needs to constrain himself to keep from pissing off his voters. Trump's first term badly damaged America. A second term would destroy it.

Clinton was a choir boy huh, compared to Trump? Tell that to Juanita Broderick who says Clinton raped her in the 70's, and tell that to the women who came forward that had their lives destroyed by the leader of the Bimbo eruptions squad, Hillary Clinton. Never thought I would see Clinton and choir boy in the same sentence ever again. Yes, for sure he has made significant missteps in the handling of the Chinese virus, but it does astound me that the friggin country that created this awful pandemic has basically got off scott free, that more people are angry at Trump's handling of this thing then of the fact that this thing was created in China, and furthermore, it's foreigners whose countries are being beseiged by COVID-19 because of China, not Donald J. Trump. Where is all of the outrage at China for the countless number of lives lost, the enormous effect this thing has had on the world's economy. There are some researchers who believe that this pandemic may have started as early as August of LAST YEAR and they told no one, where is the outrage for China. I don't care about the never Trumper Republicans, all they care about is getting good pub in the NY Times and being told how nice and good people they are unlike those other BAD and EVIL Republicans! His first two years were constrained by this bullshit Russian collusion stuff for which Special Prosecutor Mueller (who hated Trump's guts) could find no proof. I can understand if Canadians, Europeans, and other socialist blokes don't like him, but luckily for me, you get no say in the matter.

[Femina]

There are many tallyholes out there who do live here and feel the way he does. Most people on the left at the time in the media, politics, and his followers gave him a pass, some of these same news organizations have different rules for President Trump. Historically speaking, conservatives tend to adhere to a more strict interpretation of the Constitution because it generally (not always) tends to agree with conservative principles whereas liberal ideologies oftentimes find themselves at odds with U.S Constitutional law, which is why we often hear about liberal activist judges on the courts, and a belief among some that liberals do not see the Constitution as an inviolate thing, but merely as a piece of paper that means what they want it to mean, not what it objectively means. All in all, I can't bring myself to say that Clinton was a shitty president, he did some good things, but his character was flawed for a lot of reasons and the voters and the media presumably put aside their distaste for his character defects and voted him in for two terms. The new normal was born, it's just that conservatives were late to this realization, that dems had an almost 30 year head start on this realization that personal foibles and character flaws do not matter as much if you are a U.S citizen and lean towards the right that you ignore the personal stuff and vote for the candidate that most aligns with what you believe in ideologically. Name me ONE person on the left that calls Clinton a shitty president. The media cultishly and slavishly defended Clinton when he was in office. I think when you are a president, or a presidential candidate, when you see these horrifying and violent images coming out of our cities, that if you want to be a leader, you call out these Antifa thugs, especially when their presence looms so large in videos and on the news, that it would not cost Biden anything to call out those Antifa thugs, heck he would probably gain some votes with a condemnation. I never said our economic system was perfect, the government under a previous administration forced banks to sell to people who had no business getting loans to buy houses, and to be sure, there were bad actors involved in making bad and reckless decisions, but sorry, no sale here, I will stay with my superior American economic model and you can sell your socialism heavily regulated version down the street to Mexico or Canada. No sale here.

Look I'm just gonna say it. In terms of 'organizations having different rules for President Trump' is a load of 'um... duh?'. Every organization treats EVERY president differently, and they treat presidents of the opposing party worse, that's not just true of TRUMP... that's true of PRESIDENTS... but the reason its so loud concerning Trump, is that we've never had a President with the same level of incompetence as Trump in living memory (I only just barely hold off from saying 'ever') When you're as big an idiot as Donald Trump your flaws are easy to pick out and comment on, because you wear all your flaws out there on your sleeve... Hey Mr. President? Don't want people to worry that you're an idiot? THEN GET THE FUCK OFF TWITTER!

As for Trump being treated differently POLITICALLY... I totally agree! Donald Trump faced Impeachment trials over "Collusion with a foreign government"......... Bill Clinton was put through the same gauntlet over... Adultery. I mean I'm not gonna say Adultery is a good look on a president, but I would have been a lot more concerned with Clinton in office if what he was being investigated for was 'maybe fucking with the election system?' Sleeping with a woman who wasn't his wife permeated people's memories of Clinton like some kind of tatoo... Donald Trump could wipe his ass with ten women who weren't his spouse and it would hardly make the front page of his presidential woes.

[bushwackerbob]

There are many tallyholes out there who do live here and feel the way he does. Most people on the left at the time in the media, politics, and his followers gave him a pass, some of these same news organizations have different rules for President Trump. Historically speaking, conservatives tend to adhere to a more strict interpretation of the Constitution because it generally (not always) tends to agree with conservative principles whereas liberal ideologies oftentimes find themselves at odds with U.S Constitutional law, which is why we often hear about liberal activist judges on the courts, and a belief among some that liberals do not see the Constitution as an inviolate thing, but merely as a piece of paper that means what they want it to mean, not what it objectively means. All in all, I can't bring myself to say that Clinton was a shitty president, he did some good things, but his character was flawed for a lot of reasons and the voters and the media presumably put aside their distaste for his character defects and voted him in for two terms. The new normal was born, it's just that conservatives were late to this realization, that dems had an almost 30 year head start on this realization that personal foibles and character flaws do not matter as much if you are a U.S citizen and lean towards the right that you ignore the personal stuff and vote for the candidate that most aligns with what you believe in ideologically. Name me ONE person on the left that calls Clinton a shitty president. The media cultishly and slavishly defended Clinton when he was in office. I think when you are a president, or a presidential candidate, when you see these horrifying and violent images coming out of our cities, that if you want to be a leader, you call out these Antifa thugs, especially when their presence looms so large in videos and on the news, that it would not cost Biden anything to call out those Antifa thugs, heck he would probably gain some votes with a condemnation. I never said our economic system was perfect, the government under a previous administration forced banks to sell to people who had no business getting loans to buy houses, and to be sure, there were bad actors involved in making bad and reckless decisions, but sorry, no sale here, I will stay with my superior American economic model and you can sell your socialism heavily regulated version down the street to Mexico or Canada. No sale here.

Look I'm just gonna say it. In terms of 'organizations having different rules for President Trump' is a load of 'um... duh?'. Every organization treats EVERY president differently, and they treat presidents of the opposing party worse, that's not just true of TRUMP... that's true of PRESIDENTS... but the reason its so loud concerning Trump, is that we've never had a President with the same level of incompetence as Trump in living memory (I only just barely hold off from saying 'ever') When you're as big an idiot as Donald Trump your flaws are easy to pick out and comment on, because you wear all your flaws out there on your sleeve... Hey Mr. President? Don't want people to worry that you're an idiot? THEN GET THE FUCK OFF TWITTER!

As for Trump being treated differently POLITICALLY... I totally agree! Donald Trump faced Impeachment trials over "Collusion with a foreign government"......... Bill Clinton was put through the same gauntlet over... Adultery. I mean I'm not gonna say Adultery is a good look on a president, but I would have been a lot more concerned with Clinton in office if what he was being investigated for was 'maybe fucking with the election system?' Sleeping with a woman who wasn't his wife permeated people's memories of Clinton like some kind of tatoo... Donald Trump could wipe his ass with ten women who weren't his spouse and it would hardly make the front page of his presidential woes.

Before COVID-19, the economy was great and he was maybe/probably/who knows? on his way to a second term. I was always surprised that his approval numbers were as high as it got at times based on how much vitriol you see on social media, but as I keep telling people and having to remind myself, social media is not an accurate measure of real world moods or attitudes. The media portrayed the Russian collusion thing as fact and as soon as the curtain was pulled on this thing and no real link was proven or established, no mia culpas from the press, no sorry, we sold this story as fact to you guys for a better part of 2 years and oops, nothing!

[tallyho]

If there was no collusion why were there 10 counts of obstruction of justice that Mueller flagged up? If there is nothing to find there is no need to obstruct the investigation And let's not forget he was never questioned by Mueller as he was 'too busy.' Yet he managed to go and play golf over a hundred times in the two years but couldn't find an hour for a face to face interview? IN 2 YEARS? Providing written answers to pre screened questions with his legal team advising him isn't any kind of trouble for anyone.
There was no press apology because there was no need of an apology, the guy is as guilty as sin and if Mueller had the balls to call him out on the obstruction charges at the very least instead of leaving the decision to prosecute up to bar a Trump appointee, and instead saying 'it in no way exonerates him' then we would have seen Trump go down long before now.
Don't you think it's interetesting that Trump never sued any one for defamation? Because he would have had his ass nailed to the wall, that's why.