Captain Marvel news

[Dogfish]

The killer with the 'is it going to work?' question is the Guardians of the Galaxy. We know it's going to work because Guardians of the Galaxy worked.

Almost nobody had heard of that comic before the movie and now it's an A-list property because the first movie was okay, the second movie was pretty great and their part in Infinity War was amazing. Marvel know what they are doing, relax and enjoy the ride.

[Bert]

As a rule, commenting on other people's opinions about films is wrongheaded. Personal taste is...personal. But Dude, you actually prefer the second Guardians movie to the first one? Come on man, seriously?

[Dogfish]

As a rule, commenting on other people's opinions about films is wrongheaded. Personal taste is...personal. But Dude, you actually prefer the second Guardians movie to the first one? Come on man, seriously?

Dumber smaller Groot is better.

[Bert]

'I am dispute!"

[Femina]

As a rule, commenting on other people's opinions about films is wrongheaded. Personal taste is...personal. But Dude, you actually prefer the second Guardians movie to the first one? Come on man, seriously?

I actually agreed with this perspective for awhile. I thought 2 was less structured and a little out there even for the GotG series the first time I saw it but a great youtube video provided a perspective on it that has changed how I actually view GotG2 and nowadays I generally prefer it over the first film...

but I still think GotG1 is a better made film overall.

[DrDominator9]

I actually agreed with this perspective for awhile. I thought 2 was less structured and a little out there even for the GotG series the first time I saw it but a great youtube video provided a perspective on it that has changed how I actually view GotG2 and nowadays I generally prefer it over the first film...

You have a link for that YouTube vid? I'd like to see it.

[Bert]

As a rule, commenting on other people's opinions about films is wrongheaded. Personal taste is...personal. But Dude, you actually prefer the second Guardians movie to the first one? Come on man, seriously?

I actually agreed with this perspective for awhile. I thought 2 was less structured and a little out there even for the GotG series the first time I saw it but a great youtube video provided a perspective on it that has changed how I actually view GotG2 and nowadays I generally prefer it over the first film...

but I still think GotG1 is a better made film overall.

Don't take that post too seriously. I was mostly just teasing!

[Dogfish]

As a rule, commenting on other people's opinions about films is wrongheaded. Personal taste is...personal. But Dude, you actually prefer the second Guardians movie to the first one? Come on man, seriously?

I actually agreed with this perspective for awhile. I thought 2 was less structured and a little out there even for the GotG series the first time I saw it but a great youtube video provided a perspective on it that has changed how I actually view GotG2 and nowadays I generally prefer it over the first film...

but I still think GotG1 is a better made film overall.

Was it this one?

[Femina]

It might have been. I know I watched that one at some point and Ellis is generally pretty excellent at organizing and presenting her observations/philosophies. (Don't have time to watch it right now to verify) I do know that the video I saw emphasized that the film was about family and how the guardians were becoming a family.

It's also why Rocket's my favorite Guardian... a trend that only strengthened in Infinity War.

But again, GotG 1 is still a better all around structured and shot film... there's absolutely no reason why somebody couldn't prefer it over the sequel... music was better as well, I was crestfallen when I got off the GotG ride this year and found the original soundtrack was no longer being sold in the gift shop and only vol 2 was....... I was totally there the previous year when it was being sold too :(

Anyone think Rocket might recognize Captain Marvel in Avengers 4? If she's this galactic side superheroine it'd sort of make sense if the galactic populace knew her.

[theScribbler]

captainmarvelposter.jpg (238.17 KiB) Viewed 4855 times

New Posters are released.
https://www.marvel.com/articles/movies/ ... -goose-cat

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Also these from last week
https://www.marvel.com/articles/movies/ ... osters-now

[Femina]

I guess I must be in full hype mode now cause...

Spoiler

Not spoilers... but some nsfw material in there :P

[lionbadger]

I guess I must be in full hype mode now cause...

SWEET GOOGLY MOOGLY!

[tallyho]

Nice job! Reminds me of Lux Cassidy in that last one

[batgirl1969]

who else really wants to pet and stroke her pussycat?? Make her purrrrrrr.....

[Femina]

I guess I did good. Oughta make up a skrull or something though rather than just 'generic villain laying around in my hard drive'

[RedMountain]

There's a poster for the cat? I'm in.

[Blx]

There's a poster for the cat? I'm in.

[Femina]

I just think its weird the changed its name from Chewy.... I mean they own Star Wars for f'ks sake.... They put Pinocchio music in age of Ultron, not like they've never gone 'meta' before.

[Dogfish]

It's a better name. Plus less ballache with the merch.

[theScribbler]

A couple recent Captain Marvel 30 sec TV spots...

[shevek]

Carol Danvers' cat was re-named Goose after the Anthony Edwards character from Top Gun. It's a thing that would have made sense in the 90s, so that's why they did it.

Speaking of which, the Captain Marvel movie designed its fansite to look like Geocities as a throwback to 90s internet culture. That seems fun.

https://io9.gizmodo.com/captain-marvels ... 1832478101

Brie Larson admits taking the role for the purpose of 'activism'.

https://boundingintocomics.com/2019/02/ ... -activism/

Larson was paid $5 million for the role, but her latest cause is a group of GoFundMes all over the world which are raising money from the public for tickets for underprivileged girls to go see the movie. This 'charity' crowdfunds more tickets to the movie so the gross can be boosted over opening weekend.

https://comicbook.com/marvel/2019/01/15 ... -see-film/

[Femina]

Who cares if she did it for activism? She's a woman, there aren't enough superheroine films, if she wanted to be part of that for activism's sake who the F'k cares? Eveything in the world was done for SOME reason. Let's not pretend like 'Bounding into comics' doesn't include its fair share of 'anti-sjw' 'activism'.

Agreed they should have just given the girls tickets themselves. Though 'promoting' somethings a bit different from 'proposing' it. You see something already set up, why not bring attention to it I say. She likely put some money in there herself if she's pointing it out.

[lionbadger]

her latest cause is a group of GoFundMes all over the world which are raising money from the public for tickets for underprivileged girls to go see the movie. This 'charity' crowdfunds more tickets to the movie so the gross can be boosted over opening weekend.

I mean, who gets mad about little girls from poor homes getting to go see a movie? (Other than i.e. a conservative Saudi cleric)

And, yeah, I'm sure that $50k will be the thing that makes all the difference in how much the movie grosses, I mean it's being judged against black panther that took $700 M and $1.3 B globally but yeah, let's get all gamergate over $50k, seems reaaonable response

[shevek]

Lionbadger, nobody is saying that poor girls seeing a movie is a bad idea. But if the cost of that is really only going to be $50K, then Brie Larson, her Hollywood friends, or Marvel/Disney itself could all have footed the bill for that without blinking. None of them did (except Ellen DeGeneres, see below). They asked the general public to do it instead. Meanwhile, millions of dollars of publicity for the movie - via this act of expense-free 'virtue-signaling' - was created for free. The Twitter quote I included above from 'Murdock' is actually a leftist activist from Canada, who is *also* taking Brie Larson to task.

The criticism is simply 'put your money where your mouth is'. Dwayne Johnson did it when he rented out a theater for a high school senior and 200 of her friends to go see his movie.

---------------------------------------------

Femina:

The simple existence of a superheroine-led movie is not the extent of the activism that Brie is referring to. There would have been a superheroine film in the current MCU eventually, regardless of her involvement - it would have just been Black Widow instead. That's not activism - that's just the popularity of a character. Black Widow is a popular character in the movies. Captain Marvel is not a popular character anywhere - they're still trying to shoehorn her into the public's mind.

Brie's 'my form of activism' quote has appeared in dozens of articles on the same topic, not just on sites like Bounding Into Comics. Here's one from ABC News that says the same thing:

https://abcnews.go.com/culture/story/br ... r-60856648

Brie does not believe that social change is happening quickly enough in Hollywood. The contract she signed with the MCU includes a 'diversity and inclusion' clause that requires diverse and inclusive employee rosters on any movie she works on, including five upcoming MCU movies. Such types of movies already HAVE diverse staff (check out the Aquaman credits and note how many South Asian and East Asian names are on the CGI teams), but not diverse enough to please her. In Captain Marvel press junkets, she has issued a requirement for 50% women and POCs in the journalist rooms. She has promised to wear entirely female clothing designers on those trips.

If she had done all of this throughout her career, one would think nothing of it at this point. But the fact is that she implemented this new raft of requirements *because* of taking the high-profile Captain Marvel role. For some people, this imbues the Captain Marvel with a general level of activist agenda that the previous MCU movies before Black Panther didn't have *at all*. So naturally such folks are wary of the entire MCU rolling over for this agenda, especially when such tactics have not worked well to sell the product in some other franchises like Star Wars, Star Trek and Doctor Who.

Also, there is no evidence yet that she put any money into the Gofundmes. The only evidence of a large sum was a $10,000 contribution from Ellen DeGeneres after Brie's appearance on the Ellen show promoting the Gofundmes. Ellen regularly gives such amounts to various causes and mentions she has done so on her show. If Brie had put in a large amount of money into the tickets, she would have mentioned it.

As to 'who the f'k cares' about activism in superhero movies or comic books, actually you're right - the vast amount of commercial audience members go to see movies because they're fun and action-packed, and they don't care. Brie sees her role as Captain Marvel as her chance to get them to care in large numbers.

[Femina]

Such types of movies already HAVE diverse staff

As to 'who the f'k cares' about activism in superhero movies or comic books, actually you're right - the vast amount of commercial audience members go to see movies because they're fun and action-packed, and they don't care. Brie sees her role as Captain Marvel as her chance to get them to care in large numbers.

Well then it probably wasn't a very difficult demand to accommodate. Look I get it, to most people activism=bad, period. But it's just not the case. Activism in the face of an imbalance is necessary to push toward that balance. Activism isn't bad just by merit of existing.

If she had done all of this throughout her career, one would think nothing of it at this point. But the fact is that she implemented this new raft of requirements *because* of taking the high-profile Captain Marvel role. For some people, this imbues the Captain Marvel with a general level of activist agenda that the previous MCU movies before Black Panther didn't have *at all*. So naturally such folks are wary of the entire MCU rolling over for this agenda, especially when such tactics have not worked well to sell the product in some other franchises like Star Wars, Star Trek and Doctor Who.

Brie Larson didn't have this clause in her previous contracts to make this sort of thing 'unnotable' because she didn't have that kind of clout. You don't make demands when you don't have clout, complaining that somebody should just 'always have done this thing' in place of suddenly making a demand when they have the POWER to make that demand is its own special sort of prejudice. You CAN'T demand anything without power, so why should people be accused of breaking some sort of moral code because they weren't demanding things when they had no power to do so. That logic simply does not follow. If you demand things without power, you only piss off the people who do and ensure you will never EVER have the power to make any demands.

It's not like Marvel 'caved' to this. Larson wasn't their only option for Carol Danvers, they simply didn't disagree enough with what she was asking to keep looking for somebody else. Seems like a no harm situation to me.

[shevek]

The naturally 'diverse' staff I was talking about (a whole bunch of Asian tech people working on CGI) is not necessarily the diverse staff Brie is talking about. My reference to diverse staff is merit-based: if you can do the job, you get the job. Brie's goal (intersectionalism) is an enforced percentage of women and minorities in every aspect of not just movie production but the entertainment industry as a whole and all of its satellite entities (such as entertainment journalism). If you don't see enough diversity, then you go out and look for it and keep pounding the pavement until you find the people who fit the proper diversity bracket, and you don't fill the role or the job until you do.

That's what 'activism' means at this point in that industry. It's similar to the affirmative action clauses some governmental entities have that now require them to hire a certain percentage of minority-owned or female-owned businesses for government contracts - basically a civil rights law encoding special treatment for protected classes. Brie is simply applying that same level of enforcement to the entertainment industry.

No, Marvel definitely didn't 'cave' to Brie Larson. You're right, they probably could have picked a few other actresses with as much clout or more clout. In fact, they were all about what she wants to do. Kevin Feige has said for quite a while that the MCU is entering a new phase, and this phase will be centered around Captain Marvel. And in conjunction, Sana Amanat is doing the same kind of enforcement at Marvel Comics. So you're right, now that Brie has the power of the landed role, she can wield it any way she wants for the next five movies. Progressives are always saying everything is about power, and that's why they're so interested in grabbing as much of it as possible. It's totally understandable.

The only question is: does that power work? Does that power guarantee success? Some skeptics (and yes we know who they are) point out that the enforcement of these values doesn't necessarily lead to financial success, and might be better tempered by considerable doses of pragmatic reality about appealing more to the center and to the average person. For example, Kathleen Kennedy's handling of the Star Wars franchise, some might say, led to the negative reaction towards The Last Jedi followed by the financial disaster of Solo plus the utter rejection of pretty much a whole generation of Star Wars toys and other merchandise. Some might say the same about the politically correct changes in Star Trek: Discovery and the latest Doctor Who series (which, yes, includes aesthetic considerations as well, since to progressives, the aesthetic is political) are leading to the same lack of embrace by the core audiences. And so on.

It's not certain whether or not the upcoming series of Captain Marvel-led movie events will suffer the same malaise. They might work out just fine, and if they don't, Marvel also has the opportunity to correct its course back to the center. But keep in mind..it's not the 'gamergate' etc types who are bringing these issues to the fore...the Marvel Universe itself (via the likes of Larson and Amanat) is the one constantly making these pronouncements, placing politics front and center..and then the average geek who casually reads websites and geek-culture news has to figure out how to react to it, not to mention the casual moviegoer who probably doesn't own a single comicbook but wears Avengers T-shirts and ballcaps etc. This article is based on statements Brie Larson made very recently in an article in Marie Claire:

https://boundingintocomics.com/2019/02/ ... press-tour

[Bert]

Man, that's a lot of words. Look dude, Hollywood has been a male dominated horror show for actresses for decades. Now, finally, some light is being shed on the injustices. Into that reality comes the first female led MCU flick. The lead actress is using her clout to try to fight back against a system that has systematically oppressed women. Even in today's environment, that's gutsy. The GoFundMe campaign isn't about raising the gross, it's part of a campaign to focus attention on women. Your comments here make you look like a fringe cause zealot.

[shevek]

I don't disagree with your historical perspective about how hard it has been for women in the film industry. Captain Marvel is being released on International Women's Day so it's clear the purpose is to focus attention on women. But there have been plenty of previous triumphs for "strong female characters" in film, and this particular effort isn't necessarily as monumental a step forward as its proponents make it out to be, which is possibly why it requires so much extra activism to help push it along.

Nor did I say the Gofundme campaign is *about* raising the gross. I said it would *add* to the gross, a situation from which Brie and Marvel/Disney benefit. When I see an actual donation from the people involved with the Captain Marvel movie to charities that actually help women and girls (especially in developing countries, where - as Lionbadger carefully indicated - they are desperate for the safety and rights that second-wave feminism already established for women in the West) then I'll definitely change my tune.

I am no zealot - in fact, I would believe that my views are more *mainstream* than an actress who would make zealous statements about minimizing white guys at press conferences - and would prefer not to be painted as 'fringe' simply because I'm pretty sure I will prefer Aquaman/Mera, Shazam/Mary Marvel and Harley/Birds of Prey over what the Captain Marvel movie has to offer (but I'm not 100 percent sure yet, which is why I'm still out there listening and comparing all opinions). That doesn't even make me a DC fanboy so much as that just seems to be how the chips have been falling lately.

And we're all out here on the fringe in SHIP-land, as it were.

And I would like to specifically address something extremely presumptive that Brie Larson said in that Marie Clarie interview:

“I don’t need a 40-year-old white dude to tell me what didn’t work about A Wrinkle in Time. It wasn’t made for him! I want to know what it meant to women of color, biracial women, to teen women of color, to teens that are biracial.”

So...A Wrinkle In Time was published in 1962, and yet no 40-year-old white man can relate to it? I would venture to say that the AVERAGE age of all combined readers of A Wrinkle In Time, which sold extremely well in the 60s and 70s, is probably around 40 - given that it has been read by several generations ranging in age from 10 to 70. Thus, there are actually a *lot* of 40 year olds who can tell Brie Larson why the book worked but the movie didn't: the book wasn't sufficiently popular among the audience that Disney tried to target (just like the way Captain Marvel isn't popular yet among fans of Marvel characters). The movie lost millions, so it's quite evident that it didn't mean *anything* to almost *anyone* regardless of race, creed or gender.

Also, A Wrinkle in Time is the reason that, at 7 years old, I knew what a tesseract was, decades before it was mentioned in the Marvel Universe.

[Femina]

“I don’t need a 40-year-old white dude to tell me what didn’t work about A Wrinkle in Time. It wasn’t made for him! I want to know what it meant to women of color, biracial women, to teen women of color, to teens that are biracial.”

My opinions on AWiT not withstanding... I can imagine being concerned that all the big reviewers seem to be from a particular demographic. I don't personally know how true I believe that is this day and age just based on the prevalence and availability of the internet and the youtubz, but I figure that's the point she's making there. The old 'one man's trash is another mans treasure' adage applies. You won't know if this movie or that movie is something you'd want to see if its only being reviewed by people of the same mindset.

Roger and Ebert were great film reviewers not because they always agreed on a films merits, but because they were willing to FIGHT each other over their differences of oppinion when they did NOT agree, and this allowed the viewer/reader to get a clearer picture of just what sort of film they were going to see.

P.S. to all involved let's try not to call those we disagree with 'Zealots' or any other insult here please (Or snowflakes/libtards etc. for that matter)? Insults have never once in all of history convinced anyone to consider another point of view. I mean... just watch any old Roger and Ebert disagreement.

[shevek]

Thanks, Femina. I've never used 'libtards' and I wouldn't, because a good amount of my worldview is liberal (classical liberal, second-wave feminist etc).

But the only people concerned that "all the big reviewers seem to be from a particular demographic" are the ones hanging for dear life to their identity politics credos. Nobody else cares. What makes a movie critic good is their expertise in writing and analyzing films. Nothing at all to do with their race, creed or gender. And also the critic's relative freedom from having to be a shill (the more dependent they are on favors from the entertainment industry, the less I would trust their review).

Of course there are exceptions, for example when religious people review movies (Michael Medved suffered from a bit of that with his Christian evangelical moralizations), they tend to judge everything from their particular perspective. And in fact, that's exactly what reviewers with the same perspective as Brie Larson do - they review movies from the mindset of intersectionalism. The belief in the Stack of Oppression is to them a replacement for religious belief or for an antiquated social order like the Hindu caste system.

[Imagineer]

But the only people concerned that "all the big reviewers seem to be from a particular demographic" are the ones hanging for dear life to their identity politics credos.

Speaking of insults, with a side of No True Scotsman. Come on, man.

What makes a movie critic good is their expertise in writing and analyzing films. Nothing at all to do with their race, creed or gender.

Experience informs point of view, and lack of experience limits point of view.

[GeekyPornCritic]

I consider myself a liberal and a feminist. Some of us are taking issues to extreme degrees. There should not be fewer white men. There should be more diversity with black women, black men, Latin men, Asian women, etc. You get the picture.

I am very concern about this quote.

“I don’t need a 40-year-old white dude to tell me what didn’t work about A Wrinkle in Time. It wasn’t made for him! I want to know what it meant to women of color, biracial women, to teen women of color, to teens that are biracial.”

Everyone regardless of age, race, and gender can share their opinion on a movie. You are producing a product, thus it is open to criticism. You may not like the critics' opinions. However, you open yourself to these opinions by creating art. Everyone will judge art differently. I love Supergirl and the next guy may find Supergirl to be a boring blond. And that's okay.

No one should disregard a critic because he is a white guy talking about a movie with an African American lead.

Also in the trailer Captain Marvel says "let's show them how it is done". It's marketed to progress women, and it is very aggressive maybe too aggressive. I do not recall Black Panther being marketing in a manner to say "Let's show white people how it is done".

[Femina]

What makes a movie critic good is their expertise in writing and analyzing films. Nothing at all to do with their race, creed or gender. And also the critic's relative freedom from having to be a shill (the more dependent they are on favors from the entertainment industry, the less I would trust their review).

What makes a good critic is relative but regardless, the fear that social politics don't care about expertise in employment is extremely overblown... and you're wrong if you think there could never possibly be any correlation between race, creed, gender (or indeed ANY sort of 'classicism') and one's 'merit' and opportunity in the 'meritocracy'.

Diversity in the workplace DOES on occasion result in less qualified employees... but almost never in UNQUALIFIED employees. In order to promote a future in which all races and genders are given equal opportunities to be equally qualified (Which they are NOT) an ACTIVE effort must be taken to prevent a system of meritocracy that BEGAN prejudice from remaining prejudice FOREVER. The unavoidable consequence of this is that occasionally a slightly less qualified person has a better chance at a specific job over a more qualified person based on that employers workforce, but that more qualified person is unlikely to have to much trouble finding employment elsewhere BECAUSE they are still qualified.

It's all well and good to blather 'but merit and experience and ability are the only thing that should matter' when one has every opportunity to acquire merit and experience and ability, but to even CONSIDER running the world entirely as a meritocracy, you first need to weed out racial, gender and social dissonance and ensure everybody in the world has an equal opportunity to present their merit to their fullest potential so as to judge which are best suited to which positions... and even then human beings are likely to find a brand new way of finding ways to be prejudice against one another and begin the cycle anew.

Now I'm obviously not saying that merit should be ignored in deciding who to fill a job post with, that's madness. I'm not even suggesting any of this is or is not happening in our workplace in regard to movie reviews or any other specific mode of employment (and certainly there is a sense of nihilism in my expectations of exactly what humanity WILL or even CAN do as resulting from our natural primate brained inclinations). I'm just saying that while expecting EVERY job to be filled only by the single most qualified individuals to be there as a hard rule is an admirable dream, it is a dream that would inevitably result in a system of employment where one class of people become the only class of people gaining any employment whatsoever. In other words, a prejudice meritocracy.

[lionbadger]

Lionbadger, nobody is saying that poor girls seeing a movie is a bad idea. But if the cost of that is really only going to be $50K, then Brie Larson, her Hollywood friends, or Marvel/Disney itself could all have footed the bill for that without blinking. None of them did (except Ellen DeGeneres, see below). They asked the general public to do it instead. Meanwhile, millions of dollars of publicity for the movie - via this act of expense-free 'virtue-signaling' - was created for free. The Twitter quote I included above from 'Murdock' is actually a leftist activist from Canada, who is *also* taking Brie Larson to task.

Well, you, you are saying poor girls seeing a movie is a bad idea. And you seem to be standing by it because Brie Larsson didn't set this campaign up, as your article says it's the same guy who did it for black panther, she just gave it a bit of publicity, you know, like every single charity ever created does by virtue of having a patron etc. Not sure why this should be different, unless you've got a weird axe to grind about mainstream superhero movies.

There is a reason you ask the general public to support these causes and it's because the general public (in US) is 300 million strong which represents a better potential return to a charitable campaign than asking one actress to dig down the back of her couch.

I am just perplexed at the hostility to supergirl movies here? I mean, if you want to just see constant remakes of batman doing his homoerotic thing then that's okay, you can do that but I was under the vague impression that in these here backwoods parts of the rural interweb we were hoping for superheroine content in abundance.

[Imagineer]

On the one hand:

I am very concern about this quote.

“I don’t need a 40-year-old white dude to tell me what didn’t work about A Wrinkle in Time.”

On the other:

We don't need to hear her say she is better than men or let's show them how it is done.

[Femina]

On the other:

We don't need to hear her say she is better than men or let's show them how it is done.

Well it's a good thing she didn't say that then isn't it? She said 'I'd like to see what 'insert demographic here' has to say about this.' What SHE wants to hear not 'I'm better than you!' Not even in the same league. Conflating quotes and overblowing their meaning to fan self righteous indignation is a time honored forum tradition though so I get the instinct at least.

I can do it to watch

"I don't need to hear you folks tell 'us' what we need to hear Brie Larson say about X subject matter!"

Pretty sure the individual readers can come to their own conclusions about what they do or do not need to hear Brie Larson say in a quote in response to a question she was directly asked. I think its REALLY easy for people to forget these quotes aren't just offered up off the top of people's heads for no reason or without prodding. Someone ASKED her something that brought this up, so while maybe she's saying something YOU didn't ask to hear or want to hear, SOMEONE was interested. We've gone out of our way to look up and discuss this document afterall, she didn't stuff it under our noses. I'm willing to at least consider the possibility she wasn't sitting there thinking "Hmm.... how do I really stick it to those pigs over at the Ultimate Superheroines Forum? What's gonna really cheese them off?"

[ivandobsky]

Ultimately the problem is us, the viewing audience. We collectively don't score that highly on the diversity metric. If anyone else out there is by unfortunate accident of birth, born with the privilege of being a person of high albedo, a man, or a non, or doubly-trans person, we can do our part to increase the diversity of the audience by stepping aside for the better good of this important corporate performance metric.

[lionbadger]

Ultimately the problem is us, the viewing audience. We collectively don't score that highly on the diversity metric.

The average person is chinese

I am not chinese

So speak for yourself son!

[DrDominator9]

Anybody care to discuss the recent film trailers at all? Maybe what you hope the film will offer or what you like about them or not like? Just wondering.

[GeekyPornCritic]

On the other:

We don't need to hear her say she is better than men or let's show them how it is done.

Well it's a good thing she didn't say that then isn't it? She said 'I'd like to see what 'insert demographic here' has to say about this.' What SHE wants to hear not 'I'm better than you!' Not even in the same league. Conflating quotes and overblowing their meaning to fan self righteous indignation is a time honored forum tradition though so I get the instinct at least.

I can do it to watch

"I don't need to hear you folks tell 'us' what we need to hear Brie Larson say about X subject matter!"

Pretty sure the individual readers can come to their own conclusions about what they do or do not need to hear Brie Larson say in a quote in response to a question she was directly asked. I think its REALLY easy for people to forget these quotes aren't just offered up off the top of people's heads for no reason or without prodding. Someone ASKED her something that brought this up, so while maybe she's saying something YOU didn't ask to hear or want to hear, SOMEONE was interested. We've gone out of our way to look up and discuss this document afterall, she didn't stuff it under our noses. I'm willing to at least consider the possibility she wasn't sitting there thinking "Hmm.... how do I really stick it to those pigs over at the Ultimate Superheroines Forum? What's gonna really cheese them off?"

Did you see the Superbowl ad? Her character says "Let's show these men how it is done". It is a clear message of saying some women are better than men. It's a poor choice of a scene and quote to use in an ad.

I don't recall seeing Black Panther in any commercial saying "Let's show the white folks how it is done".

[Femina]

Ultimately the problem is us, the viewing audience. We collectively don't score that highly on the diversity metric. If anyone else out there is by unfortunate accident of birth, born with the privilege of being a person of high albedo, a man, or a non, or doubly-trans person, we can do our part to increase the diversity of the audience by stepping aside for the better good of this important corporate performance metric.

Don't make me laugh. The corporate performance metric only cares about money. Any form of social aggrandizement they advertise in the media is a front to improve their PR and represents less than a tenth of a percent of their actual behavior. You can rest assured that the only form of 'ism' the corporation is concerned with is Capitalism and how capitalism can make them lots and lots and lots of money. They aren't hiring more diverse workforces, they are automating so that they don't have to pay ANY workforce.

[Femina]

Did you see the Superbowl ad? Her character says "Let's show these men how it is done". It is a clear message of saying some women are better than men. It's a poor choice of a scene and quote to use in an ad.

I don't watch sports, so no I didn't see that ad.............. but I don't think its all that out of place. People say stuff like that, and vice versa, allllll the time. She's working with Nick Fury so her opinion on men likely isn't that poor. And let's not forget that the plural of 'these people' in the military or elsewhere is 'these guys' 'these men' etc. If she's talking to a bunch of soldiers or government agents ESPECCIALLY in the 90's 'these men' was just the language as it exists. I'll wait till the product is out to decide how 'ist' I feel the film is on any metric.

I don't recall seeing Black Panther in any commercial saying "Let's show the white folks how it is done".

Really? It was in the subtext. They had all this amazing technology they were keeping hidden away, come out of hiding to protect their people etc. Just cause there isn't a line of dialogue for something doesn't mean it isn't there... its a bit classier I suppose... but Carol Danvers was NEVER as classy as frigging King T'challa! She's a blunt 'sock em' in the face' kind of girl!

[GeekyPornCritic]

Did you see the Superbowl ad? Her character says "Let's show these men how it is done". It is a clear message of saying some women are better than men. It's a poor choice of a scene and quote to use in an ad.

I don't watch sports, so no I didn't see that ad.............. but I don't think its all that out of place. People say stuff like that, and vice versa, allllll the time. She's working with Nick Fury so her opinion on men likely isn't that poor. And let's not forget that the plural of 'these people' in the military or elsewhere is 'these guys' 'these men' etc. If she's talking to a bunch of soldiers or government agents ESPECCIALLY in the 90's 'these men' was just the language as it exists. I'll wait till the product is out to decide how 'ist' I feel the film is on any metric.

I don't recall seeing Black Panther in any commercial saying "Let's show the white folks how it is done".

Really? It was in the subtext. They had all this amazing technology they were keeping hidden away, come out of hiding to protect their people etc. Just cause there isn't a line of dialogue for something doesn't mean it isn't there... its a bit classier I suppose... but Carol Danvers was NEVER as classy as frigging King T'challa! She's a blunt 'sock em' in the face' kind of girl!

That's a fair point. After hearing you, I realize it's not actually a problem. I thought this movie was taking place in modern times and not then 90s. Please correct me if I am wrong.

[Femina]

Did you see the Superbowl ad? Her character says "Let's show these men how it is done". It is a clear message of saying some women are better than men. It's a poor choice of a scene and quote to use in an ad.

I don't watch sports, so no I didn't see that ad.............. but I don't think its all that out of place. People say stuff like that, and vice versa, allllll the time. She's working with Nick Fury so her opinion on men likely isn't that poor. And let's not forget that the plural of 'these people' in the military or elsewhere is 'these guys' 'these men' etc. If she's talking to a bunch of soldiers or government agents ESPECCIALLY in the 90's 'these men' was just the language as it exists. I'll wait till the product is out to decide how 'ist' I feel the film is on any metric.

I don't recall seeing Black Panther in any commercial saying "Let's show the white folks how it is done".

Really? It was in the subtext. They had all this amazing technology they were keeping hidden away, come out of hiding to protect their people etc. Just cause there isn't a line of dialogue for something doesn't mean it isn't there... its a bit classier I suppose... but Carol Danvers was NEVER as classy as frigging King T'challa! She's a blunt 'sock em' in the face' kind of girl!

That's a fair point. After hearing you, I realize it's not actually a problem. I thought this movie was taking place in modern times and not then 90s. Please correct me if I am wrong.

It's set in the 90's and meant to give off a bit of a 90's action flick vibe from what we've been told. Just to be clear I don't know that the line WON'T read as sexist in the finalized film or not, it isn't out yet, but the context of a line in the film is more important than the context of that same line in a trailer. I trust marvel not to put out a stinker, that's all there is to it. If I'm wrong, I'll be sad and Marvel will be on notice, for now they aren't on notice.

[shevek]

Femina: Geeky is correct - they do say "let's show the boys how this is done" (Carol is talking to the elder Rambeau).

As for the 90s vibe, I like to think they set the movie in the 90s for the reasons the director stated (i.e. it's fun and it hasn't been done much yet), but I also think that the Sana Amanat brigade is happy about something: Carol Danvers was in the "bathing suit costume" (as they like to put it) throughout the 90s and 2000s, and by setting her current costume as being created in the 90s, that will wipe out the history of the other costume.

I wouldn't be surprised if they let the TPBs with the black costume in it (and I have several) go out of print, but hopefully they won't be that vindictive. I'm sure they're very excited, however, about the fact that they never have to show her as Ms Marvel in any movie (even though she appeared as Ms Marvel in at least one Avengers cartoon). Contrast this with Suicide Squad's proud history of displaying several Harley Quinn costumes.

Dr Dominator: The film trailers don't show that much. Captain Marvel is now running trailers during the CW shows (at least online) and pretty much nothing is show except her and Nick Fury, a few brief images of Skrulls and her punching them (including the same 'old subway woman' clip, over and over), her appearance in the costume with and without the mohawk, and a handful of lame one-liners. There's nothing much to talk about there, at least not yet.

As to all of the other responses, I've decided to change the game: put the money and effort where the mouth is.
It seems a lot more productive than sniping and arguing about Captain Marvel-related minutiae on the Forum.

Heroineburgh and myself will support the Pittsburgh GoFundMe to send 198 girls (grades 6-8) to see the movie.
Please donate to this if you feel equally committed to the cause: https://www.gofundme.com/pittsburgh-cap ... lchallenge
We will contact the organizer of this GoFundMe and get involved in directing our fans and friends to donate.
With three weeks away, she only has 111 of the 198 tickets funded, and none of the refreshments or the bus rental costs (in other words, she has raised only 20% of her goal, although her Facebook tries to put a brave spin on it). Because of the shortfall, she's using Yoga classes in various suburban locations to try and help raise the remainder.

Because GoFundMe's algorithm will not allow "Heroineburgh" to be listed as a sponsor (they either want your name, or they mine all your Facebook data) we are going to send the Pittsburgh GoFundMe organizer a donation directly in the mail.

We would very much like to see and experience the kind of people who are excited enough about this movie to rise to Fred Joseph's Captain Marvel challenge, and also to witness how the attendees are inspired by their chance to see the movie. Hopefully we'll be able to attend that theater showing and see for ourselves.

We'll report back about the experience and let you know what happened. I'll post updates if there are any.
Thanks for helping inspiring us to do this!

[Femina]

Ugh, I Hate the black costume, it can die in a dumpster fire for all I care. The Red and Black costume is basically the same costume just with an emblem that actually means something.

[shevek]

You hate the black Ms Marvel costume with the yellow lighting bolt across the middle, the sash, the long black gloves and the long black boots?
Seriously?

It's one of the sexiest superheroine costumes ever designed. It's been cosplayed a million times and appears in a number of SHIP videos (some of which I own). No wonder the current folks at Marvel want to erase it from memory. The red and black costume with the emblem (which has also appeared in some SHIP videos, such as a couple from Primal) isn't the one they're using in the movie, either. All previous costumes are probably going to be erased, including her initial one from the 70s which was also very cute.

I'm still interested in hearing back from the woman who launched the Captain Marvel Gofundme here in Pittsburgh. Sent her a donation today in the mail.

In the meantime, here is some more news. The key quote that's been pulled out of this new article, confirming that the plan to shift the MCU's sociopolitical tone was mutual.
"I had a meeting with Marvel and what we discussed is they wanted to make a big feminist movie," Larson says."

https://www.etonline.com/captain-marvel ... ory-118901

Another key quote:
"Captain Marvel producer Jonathan Schwartz confirmed that Carol Danvers’ origin as Ms. Marvel in the comic books was altered for the big screen.
He told ET, “That origin story had to be updated a little bit for a modern audience. I’m really curious to see what fans of the character think about what we’ve done with that moment.”

My guess is that they're going to diminish (or eliminate) the importance of Mar-Vell in Carol's origin to make it look like she deserved the powers of her accord and that it wasn't a freak accident. But we'll see. There's probably going to an article about this movie almost every day somewhere at this stage of the promotional game.

https://boundingintocomics.com/2019/02/ ... n-altered/

[theScribbler]

Seems it took awhile for shevek to realize he wasn't preaching to the choir.

Brie activism = bad. No takers.

Brie is for diversity = bad. No takers.

Brie promoting #captainmarvelcampaign goFundMes = bad. No takers.
And now shevek has changed his mind on this? Or it's only good if he does it?

Brie and her hollywood friends not donating = bad. No takers.
And it's untrue. They did donate. Clark Gregg donated, as did Chris Evans. And the $10,000 donation from Ellen Show was actually donated by shutterfly, raised by Brie and Twitch in dance challenge game.

Brie has an equity rider aka inclusion rider in her contract = bad. No takers.
Yet gobs of words on why she has this rider in her contract now, and offshoots from there, most totally made up and false.

The only theme that got some traction was Brie's indelicate statement about reviewers and wanting diversity there. Wrapped up nicely by Femina.

Brie this, Brie that. shevek is crushing hard!

[Femina]

You hate the black Ms Marvel costume with the yellow lighting bolt across the middle, the sash, the long black gloves and the long black boots?
Seriously?

Yes I hate it, sexiness is just one aspect of design that you can achieve in countless different methods, but where it comes to superheroes their symbolism matters just as much to me... and a superhero has only ONE true symbol. The Warbird costume symbolized exactly squat except that some artist somewhere wanted her in black. Her 'red/black' costume is a similar design but included the Hala star... you know the SYMBOL of Captain and Miss Marvel from their inception? The change to Warbird and lightning bolt motiff was one of those cheap costume changes for the sake of changing a costume, that alone I could forgive, but it didn't have the Hala star, the lightning bolt symbolized NOTHING. For that it deserves to burn in a trash fire as far as I'm concerned and be remembered only as a breif period in Carol's history where she forgot who she was before moving on. The new costume is much better because it is a sexy bodysuit that ALSO has the proper symbolism and color code. Now that the revised orgin comics have restored her glorious hair all is right with the world.

[shevek]

No crush on Brie, Scribbler..although kudos to you for trying to reduce this to pulling a girl's ponytail on the playground.

The "gobs of words" explaining Brie's 'equity' rider were written by Femina.

I noticed that Chris Evans donated, he said so on Twitter. I can't find how much he contributed, so let's assume $1000. Add that to the $1000 from Clark Gregg, the $1000 from GoFundMe itself, and the $10,000 from "The Ellen Show" (sorry, but that's what it says right there on the contributors list) and you have 26% of the entire $48,000 total of 1,100 contributors, donated by just 4 entities.

The other GoFundMes across the country, far away from the Hollywood hype, have not done well - I've checked Pittsburgh, Richmond, Arlington TX, Flint MI, Brooklyn and Chicago so far. Every single one is below 20% of its goal. A second GoFundMe in Los Angeles is only 33% funded. We'll see if any of those change in the couple weeks remaining.

Femina: Fair enough with the Hala symbol, but you're incorrect about the Warbird costume being a "brief period". She adopted that costume in 1978, in issue #20 of her first series, and other than her transformations to Binary, she kept it until 2012. That's 34 years. No history book would define that as a "brief period".

I still think the Warbird costume is better than what she looks like now, although the return to the long hair is an obvious improvement. We can disagree but...the 2006 Ms Marvel comic book series had her wearing the Warbird costume for the entire run. Sales for the comic ranged from 25,000 to 40,000, outselling the average issue of Wonder Woman. That was only the second solo comic for Carol Danvers in her entire history, after her first series *30 years* earlier.

Move ahead to 2019, and the new version of Carol Danvers, now known as Captain Marvel, has been rebooted six times since being introduced in 2012 by Kelly Sue DeConnick. Captain Marvel #1 in 2012 sold 46,000 issues, but the current run of Captain Marvel is doing about 11,000 copies. So Ms Marvel was actually a decently popular character in the Marvel Universe, but she has markedly *decreased* in popularity since 2012.

Scribbler, you want to talk about "false"? This quote from the Hollywood Reporter is a FALSE statement: "DeConnick's feminist read on Danvers — her insight that a female fighter pilot ought to, say, wear pants to work rather than a swimsuit — inspired a backlash among some male fans, but it's the take that won over a new, more female-skewing audience for the comic and, ultimately, Larson."

When you go from 40,000 readers for a Carol Danvers comic in 2006-2012 to 11,000 readers in 2019, you have not "won over" anybody. Probably 5,000 women buy a Captain Marvel comic every month in 2019. No huge entertainment company on the scale of Marvel would be happy with a product that only sells to 5,000 women, and yet Marvel has rebooted and rebooted this character multiple times, keeping her alive for the sake of both the movie and the inability for DC to steal the name "Captain Marvel" for Shazam.

Will the Captain Marvel movie help her status in the comic book realm? All signs point to no. For all the hype surrounding Black Panther, and all the merchandise and Halloween costumes sold of T'Challa (I found a Black Panther mask for $1), the comic book sales for Black Panther have remained abysmal. Bringing on woke brand-name writer Ta-Nehisi Coates to write Black Panther did not help, and sales kept going down. There was absolutely no connection between the success of the Black Panther movie and the sales of the comics.

The difference between Captain Marvel and Black Panther though, is made clear by Femina: the identity elements of Black Panther were largely in the subtext and did not overwhelm the action, plot and special effects which was what most people came to see. Plus, although the focus was on Black Panther, there were multiple other characters that the publicity and the audience could focus on: Shuri, Killmonger, Avengers, Dora Milaje.

In contrast, Brie Larson is making her activist stance almost the *sole* focus of the publicity. Since Captain Marvel is nearly the only notable character in the whole film (Nick Fury comes a distant second, and nobody else is even really shown much except the faceless Skrull enemies), she is carrying all of the publicity of the film in a make-or-break situation. She, and pretty much she alone, has to appeal to the entire "four-quadrant" audience in order for this film to carry all the demographics, and if her appeal isn't broad enough (no pun intended), that could spell problems for certain audience segments.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/featu ... st-1185915?

As I said, I realize the *potential* importance of this movie to girls, and I've supported the GoFundMe in Pittsburgh.