Doctor Who as a heroine?

[Heroine Addict]

With Peter Capaldi stepping down as the 12th Doctor (or 13th including John Hurt), we have the usual speculation over whether the new Doctor will be a woman. Now, this has been discussed since 1980 when Tom Baker announced his departure and wished his successor well, "whoever he or she might be".

Of course, we now know that successor was Peter Davison. And long-term fans also know that stories about a potential female Doctor have appeared in the media, usually as jokey speculation, every single time the part has been recast since 1980. But to quote Davison's own final words as the Doctor, it feels different this time...

Peggy Carter herself, Hayley Atwell has already thrown her hat (and scarf) into the ring.
https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radi ... ent-carter

Plus Eva Green and Claire Forlani have both worked with incoming showrunner Chris Chibnall.

Is now the time for the world's longest-running fantasy show to trade-up its hero for a heroine?

[Visitor]

They did make the Master into the Missy the Mistress so it is possible.

[KnightsofGotham.com]

In my opinion they wont be willing to try it unless they have gotten to the point where the show dying wont be an issue.
understanding that no matter what the die hard fans like to think these things are about money over all else they wouldnt be willing to risk the franchise dying unless its already past the point of massive revenue.

Its well known that there are no methods of gauging true fan reaction ahead of time.
unlike other medium that can be predicted well ahead of time Dr. Who has forever been a thorn in the side of people trying to guage what direction would sell best. it would be easy to say that the left has established a strong enough force to muscle a woman to the front but the reality is that anything the special snowflakes did to try and force a female dr. wouldnt actually take root.
there was a rather feeble attempt to get one in before peter but all of the social media hype led to nothing and the "thousands" who said they would boycott if there wasnt a woman as the Dr pretty much fizzled out.

Now....would it be nice to see a Female dr.
Yes.
And here's why.
It would cement the regeneration aspect. the idea that he has no choice and no ability to stop or dictate what he regenerates into means that eventually there should be a woman.
Do I think it would work?
yeah, absolutely. Dr. Who fans have mostly been in love with the concept of the figure. an immortal traveling through space and time. someone flawed who would somehow manage to save humanity even if we often showed we didnt deserve it.
that kind of figure doesnt have to be male, on the contrary i would say that the Dr. works well as a woman because she would then have a motherly aspect that would resonate with the character better than the grumpy father figure does.
but im getting away from myself.

And lets not forget they have already taken that first step towards it turning the mast let me stop just in case there is anyone who hasnt actually dived in yet but lets just say that the foundation has actually been set already

Should the dr. be woman.
yes, i would dive into that head first and swim those waters with absolute joy.
Will the powers that be take that risk?
not unless they are ready to risk losing the money train.

[tallyho]

They had a female Dr on the radio in the past. Or was it the future? Friggin' Timelords...

[Dazzle1]

They had a female Dr on the radio in the past. Or was it the future? Friggin' Timelords...

That was Romandavortrelunder

[Dazzle1]

With Peter Capaldi stepping down as the 12th Doctor (or 13th including John Hurt), we have the usual speculation over whether the new Doctor will be a woman. Now, this has been discussed since 1980 when Tom Baker announced his departure and wished his successor well, "whoever he or she might be".

Of course, we now know that successor was Peter Davison. And long-term fans also know that stories about a potential female Doctor have appeared in the media, usually as jokey speculation, every single time the part has been recast since 1980. But to quote Davison's own final words as the Doctor, it feels different this time...

Peggy Carter herself, Hayley Atwell has already thrown her hat (and scarf) into the ring.
https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radi ... ent-carter

Plus Eva Green and Claire Forlani have both worked with incoming showrunner Chris Chibnall.

Is now the time for the world's longest-running fantasy show to trade-up its hero for a heroine?

Tom Baker did it to tweak everyone.

But it is a terrible idea along, like Kirk, Bond Wonder Woman, some characters should remain the same gender.

Two questions: Do people prefer Classic or New?

How come there has been little DW in this fetish?

[Heroine Addict]

Hmmmm, I prefer the character and charm of Classic Who, but see New Who as technically superior in most respects.

As for the lack of Who in this genre, it might be down to producers not wanting to invest in props/sets such as the TARDIS exterior and console. Having said that, Doctor Who can be placed in any historical period or any sci-fi/fantasy setting, so an imaginative producer could recycle costumes from various productions.

On the subject of a female Doctor, KnightsofGotham has rightly pointed out that the foundations are already laid with the Master/Missy and the General changing sex. It's just a question of whether the gamble will be taken now or at some later stage?

I would venture that the bar would need to be set pretty high for a female casting. It would need to be an international name such as Eva Green or Hayley Atwell. Maybe even Billie Piper or Karen Gillan, now it's established that the Doctor can take the form of people he's met. Billie's even actively campaigning for a female Doctor.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-38801228

[Dazzle1]

Hmmmm, I prefer the character and charm of Classic Who, but see New Who as technically superior in most respects.

As for the lack of Who in this genre, it might be down to producers not wanting to invest in props/sets such as the TARDIS exterior and console. Having said that, Doctor Who can be placed in any historical period or any sci-fi/fantasy setting, so an imaginative producer could recycle costumes from various productions.

On the subject of a female Doctor, KnightsofGotham has rightly pointed out that the foundations are already laid with the Master/Missy and the General changing sex. It's just a question of whether the gamble will be taken now or at some later stage?

I would venture that the bar would need to be set pretty high for a female casting. It would need to be an international name such as Eva Green or Hayley Atwell. Maybe even Billie Piper or Karen Gillan, now it's established that the Doctor can take the form of people he's met. Billie's even actively campaigning for a female Doctor.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-38801228

I am definitely classic except for special effects superior in everyway

I don't see Eva Green doing Helene Bohemia Cater maybe. Billie Piper is talented enough as an actress probably the best singer turned actress ever.
I hated Amy Pond.

You don't need the TARSIS exterior there are some fan made videos on you tube without an interior of the TARDIS and they are better than the garbage by Moffat.

[tallyho]

They had a female Dr on the radio in the past. Or was it the future? Friggin' Timelords...

That was Romandavortrelunder

You left the second 'a' out - RomanAdavortrelunder.

Damn that gal was sexy (Mary Tamm was it?)

I was actually thinking of this - played by Arabella Weir

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exile_(audio_drama)

[Heroine Addict]

Ah, the Unbound series. They also got Catweazle to do a couple of stories.

[MightyHypnotic]

Bring back Leela!

LouiseTom.jpg (96.28 KiB) Viewed 6256 times

[tallyho]

^^^ Yes but please bring her back when she was in her twenties.

[batgirl1969]

I would love it if they brought back that cute sexy so inmocently sweet perky tight little blonde hottie that played the Dr's daughter....remember her? Yes....yes I would totally love that!!! (And make her a flaming lesbo since its his first time as a chic!! Lol

[Dogfish]

It'd be worth it just for the outrage. It really won't make that much difference though, it's not like the Doctor was saving the world with his genitals.

Since they've already decided that timelords can come back as whoever I think it could be interesting.

What worries me though is that major changes to save shows that have become creatively stagnant is very often seen as a reason for a show being bad, as if trying something new and messing up is somehow worse than slow death from boredom. I wouldn't like to see a change blamed for Dr Who getting shitcanned.

[Mr. X]

Or trans. That would shake things up. Or maybe the doctor has been evil this whole time and its really a young, empowered girl who he keeps trapped in the Tardis who really does all the brilliant work.

[batgirl1969]

I like the trans idea....thats a twist for sure....I mean he has 2 hearts, why not 2 sexual features....

[Femina]

Tom Baker did it to tweak everyone.

But it is a terrible idea along, like Kirk, Bond Wonder Woman, some characters should remain the same gender.

Two questions: Do people prefer Classic or New?

How come there has been little DW in this fetish?

Not sure I think this is fundamentally the same thing here? There is a case that bond is 'potentially' different people from one 007 to the next (but by no means a confirmed theory) but Kirk and WW are characters that are human and not characters that could actually swap their gender (though I guess if Q REALLY wanted Kirk to be a woman he could do it, but Q wasn't invented until after Kirk anyway) Vs Dr. Who, whom is a Time Lord and whom CAN become a woman if and when he/she/it? wishes (or even just subconsciously wanted to be)

This particular style of argument concerning Dr. Who is only a 'little' less eye rolling to me to me than some others in varying mediums, like the people who decry the idea of a female Link in a Zelda game citing 'his' history as an 'established character' (despite canonically almost never being the same actual character from game to game to be established as)

Now on the flip side, Marketing/gender politics/sociology arguments, all valid in the 'will it sell/won't it sell' quandry. Personally I don't imagine a female Who would sell considerably well just by way of the fan demographic. Female whovians are a growing bunch (whereas I don't think it would impact Zelda's sales at all if they allowed for a gender choice option) but I imagine the demographic is still predominantly geeky male... not that it objectively matters (nor do I consider it a poor mark on a man's character to be a geek) but it has been my experience in life that the geeky male demographic is also one of those most unwilling to share their toys (so to speak)


Anyway to answer your questions

I prefer new, mostly because I first saw Dr Who when Sci-Fi first resurrected it with Christopher Eccelston, but really only started WATCHING it when Matt Smith took over in like.... season five or six?

And as to your second question, I would imagine there is so little Dr Who Fetish material in this area of the internet for two reasons. The biggest and most ironic to THIS actual topic being that there hasn't been a female Who and the SHiP fetish orbits female characters (usually) and the lesser being that Dr. Who isn't a 'Superhero' in the same way that most people think of superheros.

[Dazzle1]

I think the question of the female Doctor came about partially to the LGBT agenda of Davies and Moffatt. I have no objection to that in Sci-Fi, several good novels have dealt with it. But it has been done with a heavy hand in New Who. the novels deal with it but do not push it down the readers throat. Read Steve Perry's Matador series as an example. Until Missy if you look at the regenerations of the three most important Time Lords in the series: The Doctor Master and Romana they did not change sex.

Femina: If you have not tried Classic I suggest you do Pewtwee or Tom Baker, among other areas you see 5 strong female companions.

Regarding DW fetish, Certanatly the Master and Rani could play Doms almost any female companion could be a sub and a River Song, Romana or Leela could easily Dom and for male sub, female fans have written DW erotica with the Doctor or Captain Jack.

[Heroine Addict]

Five strong female companions for Pertwee and Baker, but with six distinct personas. Bearing in mind that Romana regenerated.

While Mary Tamm was more conventionally attractive, Lalla Ward brought a certain flirty sass to the role of Romana.

I hear Lalla is single again. But seeing as her ex husbands are Tom Baker and Professor Richard Dawkins, you'll need some fucking good patter to woo her.

While the sexuality references in New Who can be heavy-handed at times, some of them can be pretty hilarious. Such as the not at all subtle suggestion that Madame Vastra's long lizard tongue is great for pleasuring Jenny Flint's pussy.

[lionbadger]

The real issue with DW recently is the strength of the scripts, they've been incredily weak and rely heavily on Deus Ex Machina endings, if Peter Capaldi can't make it good then it really doesn't matter who you get to be a new doctor if the writing remains sub par.

that said, if dead set on seeing a lady doctor

Ashley Jenson?



or Katie Leung? A gender swapped scottish hong kong chinese Dr would surely give twitter a bump

[batgirl1969]

Five strong female companions for Pertwee and Baker, but with six distinct personas. Bearing in mind that Romana regenerated.

While Mary Tamm was more conventionally attractive, Lalla Ward brought a certain flirty sass to the role of Romana.

I hear Lalla is single again. But seeing as her ex husbands are Tom Baker and Professor Richard Dawkins, you'll need some fucking good patter to woo her.

While the sexuality references in New Who can be heavy-handed at times, some of them can be pretty hilarious. Such as the not at all subtle suggestion that Madame Vastra's long lizard tongue is great for pleasuring Jenny Flint's pussy.

God I love this Forum.....a lizard woman using that tongue to pleasure Jenny Flint's pussy....this just made me smile ear to ear...like a lizard girl!!!

[Heroine Addict]

The problem of Deus Ex Machina endings is shared by Steven Moffat's other show Sherlock, which has replaced logical resolutions with entire scenes revealed to be fantasy sequences and characters using magic. Not stage magic, but actual magic. Sherlock's secret sister literally had magic powers in that last series.

Hopefully, Chris Chibnall will improve things when he takes over Doctor Who in 2018. While his previous episodes have been pretty average, they did at least have proper endings. Also, Chibnall is assembling a US-style Writer's Room. So hopefully there will fewer instances of one person taking on too much and writing himself out of a corner with a rush job Deus Ex Machina.

[lionbadger]

The problem of Deus Ex Machina endings is shared by Steven Moffat's other show Sherlock

I hadn't realised Steven Moffat was writing that, thought Mark Gattis had just become terrible but now it makes a lot more sense.

I would like to see an adaptation/cross over based on Kim Newman's Hound of the D'Urbervilles

[Mr. X]

Wonder Woman can easily be gender swapped. Thor was. Its just a title after all. In fact they already did a swap with her an Artemis at one point so they have clearly confirmed its a title and not her identity. So WW gets humiliated, loses her honor and she doesn't know why, gets an arm cut off, loses the armor and lasso to some guy who has cancer who calls himself Wonder. Big deal. Because remember kiddies everything is everything else and the universe is nihilism and moral relativity.

[Heroine Addict]

Well, Marvel's swaps have been a generally shitty idea. In the past, even when the successors have been the same sex, the originals have returned eventually. Such as Ben Reilly in those awful Spider-Man comics about the clone. Or the Jean Paul Valley Batman in DC's Knightfall/Knightquest.

Replacing an iconic character is generally a temporary fix. People just don't like the idea of the current hero/heroine not being the 'real' one. The big exception being Carol Danvers as Captain Marvel. But then, the original was never all that popular.

With Doctor Who, everyone is used to adjusting to a new guy with a different personality every few years. The Doctor and the Master/Missy are the same characters who have been fighting each other for years. Regardless of all the changes.

[Femina]

Wonder Woman can easily be gender swapped. Thor was. Its just a title after all. In fact they already did a swap with her an Artemis at one point so they have clearly confirmed its a title and not her identity. So WW gets humiliated, loses her honor and she doesn't know why, gets an arm cut off, loses the armor and lasso to some guy who has cancer who calls himself Wonder. Big deal. Because remember kiddies everything is everything else and the universe is nihilism and moral relativity.

Hmmm you know that's true, for some reason I hadn't thought of that. I'm not sure how easily WW can be 'gender' swapped, mostly considering the Amazon's general opinion of men (like, without some seriously hackneyed writing a 'Wonder Man' would need to be like, hundreds of years in the progressive Amazonian future at their current mindset) but you're right, WW IS a title... albeit one that unlike Who or (and maybe Bond as in the previous response) hasn't seriously changed in the stories life cycle to this point.

........... And Thor Isn't a title! *sigh* god damn it Marvel read your Norse mythology!

In any event, Dr. Who is definitely not quite in the same category as supers who get character or sex changed in comic books. In a lot of ways superman has existed sidelong with as Dr. Who for as many decades, and while Superman has ALWAYS been the same guy in the same body, Dr. Who's gone through thirteen (or shit who knows? Maybe there's another secret doctor hidden along in there? All it takes is one episode for the writers to decide to mix it up with a plot twist, I still remember the hilarity of the fans who were just SURE the doctor couldn't progress passed Matt Smith cause of the arbitrary '12 regeneration's' rule that had been invented in one episode)

[lionbadger]

But then Wonder Woman isn't actually a woman is she, she's some sort of magically animated pile of sand because Hypolita wanted a baby without kissing dirties with a smelly boy

[Mr. X]

But then Wonder Woman isn't actually a woman is she, she's some sort of magically animated pile of sand because Hypolita wanted a baby without kissing dirties with a smelly boy

Yeah so she could become a he. I know they did some Batman and Superman gender changes in the past. But the bets trans of all is turning everyone into MONKEYS!

http://www.lasertimepodcast.com/wp-cont ... -Kaiju.png

[patmac4]

i only have two main iusse with the change in dr who first the next could be not should there are so many diferent actors/acress who could the play role. second he/she should be conmitted to the series and not one who is only there to broost rates. there own cv and to easy sale overseas.

[Heroine Addict]

Yeah so she could become a he. I know they did some Batman and Superman gender changes in the past. But the bets trans of all is turning everyone into MONKEYS!

http://www.lasertimepodcast.com/wp-cont ... -Kaiju.png

The nature of Monkey is irrepressible!

[Mr. X]

And she should have boobies.

[Femina]

Didn't they change it though so that Zeus was her dad and the whole 'made from earth' thing was just a metaphor or something :/ bah! Comic book origins, so confusing

[ksire_99]

And she should have boobies.

Was that a shot at "I have a pussy of steel"?

cause if it is, and they cast and direct the same, then it will be the death of Dr. Who.

K

[tallyho]

And she should have boobies.

Was that a shot at "I have a pussy of steel"?

cause if it is, and they cast and direct the same, then it will be the death of Dr. Who.

K

Be more like Dr 'ho'....

I personally don't like all the sexual bollocks they introduced in the New versions - the old series was about him as a crazy grandfather/ mad uncle sort of character and the relationships with his assistants wasn't about 'will they, won't they' (especially with the male assistants, even though Jamie wore a skirt) it was more about him teaching them about the wonders of the universe and solving problems with science and co-operation over conflict. If we had a female Who, how long before there's a bloody love story in there?

[Dazzle1]

i only have two main iusse with the change in dr who first the next could be not should there are so many diferent actors/acress who could the play role. second he/she should be conmitted to the series and not one who is only there to broost rates. there own cv and to easy sale overseas.

That has been a problem, because no actor want to stay with the role, typecasting I guess.

[Heroine Addict]

i only have two main iusse with the change in dr who first the next could be not should there are so many diferent actors/acress who could the play role. second he/she should be conmitted to the series and not one who is only there to broost rates. there own cv and to easy sale overseas.

That has been a problem, because no actor want to stay with the role, typecasting I guess.

Television acting work tends to pay relatively poorly in the UK. Still way, way above the wage for an average job, but a pittance in relation to the phone number figures offered by the American networks. Add to this the fact that the BBC is a public service broadcaster, funded by a mandatory licence fee, so BBC spending is constantly under intense scrutiny. There wouldn't be a situation where an actor (or actress) could start demanding £1 million per episode. Even though Doctor Who does well internationally, the money it brings in goes into the general BBC piggy bank, rather than going back to the production budget. The justification being that this method keeps the licence fee lower for the British public.

This creates a situation where the lead actor will reach the end of his contract (three years for Tennant, Smith and Capaldi) and then start considering big money offers from the USA. Matt Smith probably got paid more for Pride and Prejudice and Zombies and Terminator: Genisys than he would have received for a whole year of Doctor Who. Spending one or two months on a movie set or nine months in Cardiff is an easy choice if the money is comparable.

If an actor starts playing hardball and demanding £20 squillion and a gold Rolls Royce from the BBC, the answer is likely to be "Thanks for your service."

[patmac4]

dr who is one of the biggest shows for the bbc and sold worldwide like sherlock. but for some reason bbc has lil or no faith in it and some want it gone and replaced with a cheap show or some reilty crap.

sadl;y tv to day is a number games and cost.

[lionbadger]

dr who is one of the biggest shows for the bbc and sold worldwide like sherlock. but for some reason bbc has lil or no faith in it and some want it gone and replaced with a cheap show or some reilty crap.

BBC basically hates Sci Fi and doesn't know how to make it anymore

They'd rather do bargain hunt and celebrities dancing its a pile of twee shitt

[Mr. X]

dr who is one of the biggest shows for the bbc and sold worldwide like sherlock. but for some reason bbc has lil or no faith in it and some want it gone and replaced with a cheap show or some reilty crap.

BBC basically hates Sci Fi and doesn't know how to make it anymore

They'd rather do bargain hunt and celebrities dancing its a pile of twee shitt

That stuff is far cheaper to make. Kind of like when Sci Fi channel went to making stupid reality shows and re-airing old soap operas.

[KennyLoggins]

Are you guys sure the third Doctor was not in fact a woman ?

[Heroine Addict]

There certainly seems to be a trend of quality drama series becoming less common on free-to-air channels and more common on subscription services. There's good stuff out there, but you increasingly have to pay for it.

Which makes the BBC's use of a mandatory fee increasingly hard to justify, as it no longer guarantees a decent quantity of premium content. Plus when shows such as Sherlock and Doctor Who do reappear after ridiculously long breaks in production, they're like self-indulgent fanfic versions of their former selves with amateurish "it was all a dream" cop-outs masquerading as sophisticated writing.

[Mr. X]

Are you guys sure the third Doctor was not in fact a woman ?

At this point I don't care anymore. Make him/her/it/ze whatever cause I'm tired of lesson teaching jerks.

[Dazzle1]

There have always been people at the BBC who don't like DW.

I remember when they got rid of it the first time.

[tallyho]

^^^ and some of those stories were great - the Curse of Fenric and the Arthurian one especially - with them all ruined by that fop-mouthed little prick of a Doctor, McCoy and I was still trying to recover from them having cast BONNIE- BLOODY -LANGFORD !!!!!!! ARRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

<Deep breaths...deep breaths...>
As you may have guessed I hated that bitch

[Heroine Addict]

^^^ and some of those stories were great - the Curse of Fenric and the Arthurian one especially - with them all ruined by that fop-mouthed little prick of a Doctor, McCoy and I was still trying to recover from them having cast BONNIE- BLOODY -LANGFORD !!!!!!! ARRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

<Deep breaths...deep breaths...>
As you may have guessed I hated that bitch

It was a bit surreal watching Bonnie just show up and do her usual "light entertainment" crap on Doctor Who. Everyone else was at least trying to act and she was no different from when she presented Saturday Starship. It was as if she had wandered into the wrong studio and was expecting to interview Morten from A-ha.

"Doctor, I have a letter from Jenny in Scunthorpe, who wants me to ask you whether she'll be married to George Michael in the future?"

[Dazzle1]

^^^ and some of those stories were great - the Curse of Fenric and the Arthurian one especially - with them all ruined by that fop-mouthed little prick of a Doctor, McCoy and I was still trying to recover from them having cast BONNIE- BLOODY -LANGFORD !!!!!!! ARRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

<Deep breaths...deep breaths...>
As you may have guessed I hated that bitch

It was a bit surreal watching Bonnie just show up and do her usual "light entertainment" crap on Doctor Who. Everyone else was at least trying to act and she was no different from when she presented Saturday Starship. It was as if she had wandered into the wrong studio and was expecting to interview Morten from A-ha.

This was the era of weak and annoying companions: Tegan Turlough Peri and Bonnie

I had no problem with McKoy his first season had all bad stories

[tallyho]

PERI!!! ARE YOU MAD?!!!! PERI HAD FANTASTIC KNOCKERS! She created a generation of Whovians just by showing that cleavage every week!

Peri_Brown.jpg (20.92 KiB) Viewed 5271 times

Yes his first series was dreadful for stories but as Langford was in it I hardly saw any of them

[4havokk]

Male or female Doctor Who...?... My concern would be with the writing of the character rather than who would play the part. I'm afraid that with the way lead female charactors are writen now a days that the flaws that made the doctor interesting would be writen out. There are also times that the female companion can and has (at times rightfully) gotten in the doctor's face about his actions. Sad to say but that would not be permitted by lets say a male companion to a female doctor who.

[Dazzle1]

As far as Peri, I always found her insulting to me as an American. The first American companion and they make her a Valley Girl

Havok is correct it is very rare where a male supporting actor, unless he is older can get in a female protagonist's face and say you are wrong.

[Heroine Addict]

Hasn't every female-led cop show ever made dealt with the heroine being second-guessed by her colleagues, including her subordinates? Don't Supergirl's friends and colleagues get in her face every week and tell her she's wrong about something?

If a heroine takes too much criticism and gets defeated too often, she's considered weak. (Just look at the Supergirl threads.) If a heroine is too skilled and hardly ever receives or requires criticism and help, she's a "Mary Sue". No representation is going to please everyone.

Having said that, Clara Oswold was a massive Mary Sue. And possibly an indication of how Steven Moffat would write a female Doctor. Fortunately, he won't be writing for the next Doctor.