Superman's Message For Mr Trump

[tallyho]

Message for TRUMP.jpg (72.41 KiB) Viewed 12733 times

[sugarcoater]

Unfortunately, that message isn't conflicting with Trump's perspective. The issue he is (painfully and poorly) articulating is one of concern that non-Americans who might be in league with extremists who give Muslims a bad name might infiltrate the country and cause significant damage. The concept of supporting legal immigrants who have been properly vetted and want to assimilate to western culture and values (the Superman propaganda, which I imagine we all support) is not contrary to Trump's unrealistic demagoguery.
As ISIS has stated, they are trying to send in their people through the refugee crisis. To ignore that point seems foolish to me. Trump's solution sounds equally foolish and overly simplistic.

Just curious, but why the sudden increase in off-topic geopolitical threads these days? Why not have these discussions on other sites' message boards?

[tallyho]

It's superman and as it's a plea for understanding and tolerance I figured its fine on any board.
It can't be off topic when it's in the miscellaneous section and with the hero connection I figured it has relevance for the board.

The other two threads were about expressing sympathy (only one of which I started) that both became a train wreck of a thread on gun control but those two were also in miscellaneous.

[Bert]

@sugarcoater - I think the point of the Superman panel is to guard against being a bigot. When a presidential contender can increase his support by suggesting a ban on admitting any person who belongs to the world's second largest faith, it can easily have the effect of emboldening people to lash out at anyone they see who may belong to that faith. It can't be comfortable right now to be guilty of being American while Muslim.

[ksire_99]

@sugarcoater - I think the point of the Superman panel is to guard against being a bigot. When a presidential contender can increase his support by suggesting a ban on admitting any person who belongs to the world's second largest faith, it can easily have the effect of emboldening people to lash out at anyone they see who may belong to that faith. It can't be comfortable right now to be guilty of being American while Muslim.

Very true concerning Bigotry. I that is how I read the comic too.

However, I think it wise for a society to make sure the people who you are welcoming into your country can assimilate to the society. There was a period not too long ago, America was not allowing immigrants so the large influx that was already taken in could become 'Americanized'.

As far as the PRECIEVED Bigotry problem, There are always bad apples that tend to spoil the bunch, and that goes for ANY group of people, no matter how you want to divide people up...(sex, race, religion, sexual orientation, republican, democrat, left or right handed...) The media is always going to go for the "low hanging" fruit, however the tough decisions on protecting OUR way of life should never take a back seat to people's needs from other countries. Harsh as that sounds it is a reality I wished our (US) leaders would take to heart. You all can do whatever it is you damn well want, just stop preaching.

BTW, I find it funny that so many 'foreigners' are voicing their opinion on our Presidential campaign. I for one do not want any part of the socialist societies of Europe!

[Bert]

BTW, I find it funny that so many 'foreigners' are voicing their opinion on our Presidential campaign. I for one do not want any part of the socialist societies of Europe!

Well, who the leader of France or Norway is is of little concern to most Americans. On the other hand, as a country with over 300 million people, the world's most powerful military and the most influential economy, who the leader of the U.S. is has a real impact on many other countries. So when a bellicose, narcissistic casino and real estate mogul uses a blatant appeal to fear and bigotry to get closer to the presidency, people around the world start to get worried.

[Bert]

By the way ksire_99, I've always loved that photo manip you have as your avatar.

[ksire_99]

By the way ksire_99, I've always loved that photo manip you have as your avatar.

Well that IS how I would treat an illegal alien! Bwahahaha

[Mr. X]

While I believe in open borders and non-government induced immigration I am curious. How does one pay for a national health care system, free college for everyone, welfare etc when the government is artificially importing over 1 million people a year into the US? How does that work?

[ksire_99]

While I believe in open borders and non-government induced immigration I am curious. How does one pay for a national health care system, free college for everyone, welfare etc when the government is artificially importing over 1 million people a year into the US? How does that work?

Are you saying even too much of a good thing is still too much?

Girl_Power.jpg (29.51 KiB) Viewed 12575 times

[TIEnTEEZ]

Really? Politics? Here? I come here to get away from that crap. :-P

[Mr. X]

While I believe in open borders and non-government induced immigration I am curious. How does one pay for a national health care system, free college for everyone, welfare etc when the government is artificially importing over 1 million people a year into the US? How does that work?

Are you saying even too much of a good thing is still too much?

Girl_Power.jpg

The words sustainable and feasible come to mind. More of X means more money to pay for X. So how are these things paid for?

I would think people who are upset fat people "use too much health care resources" would be upset about others using those resources.

[ksire_99]

While I believe in open borders and non-government induced immigration I am curious. How does one pay for a national health care system, free college for everyone, welfare etc when the government is artificially importing over 1 million people a year into the US? How does that work?

Are you saying even too much of a good thing is still too much?

Girl_Power.jpg

The words sustainable and feasible come to mind. More of X means more money to pay for X. So how are these things paid for?

I would think people who are upset fat people "use too much health care resources" would be upset about others using those resources.

Don't worry yourself with that, the Government will make those hard decisions for us.

[Richpartist]

Good point,now lets hope Barry(oh I mean Obama)leaves my fellow Catholics alone.He seems to like to pick on nuns.

[Richpartist]

..........hey wait a minute,he's not from around here anyway............check his papers

[Visitor]

While I believe in open borders and non-government induced immigration I am curious. How does one pay for a national health care system, free college for everyone, welfare etc when the government is artificially importing over 1 million people a year into the US? How does that work?

Part of the money comes from payroll deducted taxes on illegal aliens using false social security numbers that don't file tax returns to get back over payments. That's why the government goes after illegal aliens that are paid under the table and don't pay into the system.

[ksire_99]

..........hey wait a minute,he's not from around here anyway............check his papers

lol, I was in Kenya a couple years back...a presidential motorcade was coming up the mountain we were driving down. The driver said it is President Obama!

So I grabbed my camara, and the driver slapped it down...."You can't take pictures of the President!"

That is when I learned the US President's cousin (I think that was the relationship, I am sure someone will correct me) was President of Kenya. I asked him what religion their Obama was. He looked at me like I was from Mars, and said "Catholic of course!"

I just shook my head.



So I got to see where his father grew up and all. There is a small school in the countryside with his name on it.

[Richpartist]

Catholic....wink wink............yeah right

[sugarcoater]

I would have to disagree vehemently about open borders being a good idea. Borders are one of a few qualities that define a country. It's not the actual marker, but the concept that a certain language and culture are found within those borders. I would not want the US to move away from its western values. I have come to value most of the western qualities of life. I don't believe it's the right philosophy for everyone, but it is for me and it is why I remain within the US's borders. Yes, there is--as in any country--a need for change and improvement, but for me it's the place and culture I call mine.
One example that was put forth was the concept of analyzing San Diego and Tijuana. The two cities are within miles of one another, share the climate, and have no major geographical differences...save for a border separating the two cultures. Yet when looking at the success of the two cities and considering what has caused one to flourish and one to languish, I would suggest that culture has played a role in that.

@tallyho

I apologize if I came across as against the idea of some geopolitical discussion on this board. It just struck my as slightly odd, but as I am posting my humble opinion here, I obviously am intrigued by the discussion.

[Dogfish]

I would have to disagree vehemently about open borders being a good idea. Borders are one of a few qualities that define a country. It's not the actual marker, but the concept that a certain language and culture are found within those borders. I would not want the US to move away from its western values. I have come to value most of the western qualities of life. I don't believe it's the right philosophy for everyone, but it is for me and it is why I remain within the US's borders. Yes, there is--as in any country--a need for change and improvement, but for me it's the place and culture I call mine.
One example that was put forth was the concept of analyzing San Diego and Tijuana. The two cities are within miles of one another, share the climate, and have no major geographical differences...save for a border separating the two cultures. Yet when looking at the success of the two cities and considering what has caused one to flourish and one to languish, I would suggest that culture has played a role in that.

@tallyho

I apologize if I came across as against the idea of some geopolitical discussion on this board. It just struck my as slightly odd, but as I am posting my humble opinion here, I obviously am intrigued by the discussion.

Most of modern Mexico's problems stem from the fact that it is the breadbasket of the US illegal narcotics industry. The USA has outsourced its organised crime to the Mexican cartels. This is a good thing for the USA, because those boys do not mess around, but trafficking drugs is not a multi billion dollar industry in Mexico because Mexicans are cuckoo for cocaine, that's American money those people are fighting for. It's not a cultural thing, the USA went just as badly under alcohol prohibition, criminal gangs grow, they get into everything, it took decades to dig them out.

As for US culture in the face of open immigration, I can definitely see the problem that's occured there. Way back when, when the USA welcomed everybody, US values were simple. The American Dream - abandon your rubbish homeland and come to a new country where you could be free and where you could make your fortune. Freedom, Democracy and a chance of a better life. That's universal, it speaks to everybody. In the old days people didn't have to grow up in America to have those values, they aspired to them their whole lives in their home countries around the world, and when they made it to the USA even if they didn't speak the language the dream was shared. I mean, if you went to the USA from Europe, you'd be greeted by the Statue of Liberty. I've been there, I've seen her, as a statement of national values I can't think of anything more powerful. But that was then, values change.

The American Dream, like the British Empire or old timey Socialism, is over. Was a thing, isn't now. No harm in that, everything changes, folks just need to get used to the fact that the USA isn't a shining beacon of liberty to the world now, it's just a country like every other country, trying to balance the books, stay one step ahead of the world's bullshit and keep the world's excess peasants out because robots and China put everybody out of work.

[releqy]

The key words in the original poster's Superman picture are "American", "Country", and "School". If memory serves me correctly, a child born within the borders of the USA to illegal aliens is considered an American child still. Using this knowledge, then yes of course one should stick up for a school mate who is getting bullied because they are, let's say, Hispanic.

However, comparing the entire country to a single school is stupid, because not EVERY person of non white features in America is here legally, therefor they are NOT American. This is nothing more than brainwashing. Using an iconic character such as Superman to leave this impression that everyone in this country is an American regardless of the legality of their origin is foolish and is one of the reasons why our children have grown up to become men and woman who support an open border policy so blindly.

If this Superman depiction would have been geared toward preventing racism then I would take no offense to it, but it's not. This is a clear means of indoctrination of children. It's like modern day schools that force children to dress up in Islamic attire for a day or to study the Koran and quote one verse a day or week. They do it under the guise of tolerance and understanding of other cultures and all this "we are all one" stuff. It's actually a good, heart felt idea, but it's fucking dangerous also... especially when we are teaching our kids to tolerate a people who want nothing more than to torture, mutilate, behead and kill you if you happen to be wearing clothes that don't like or holding a religious belief different than theirs or being gay.

The reason why America isn't as great as it once was is because of the border or lack thereof as well as leaders in office on both sides who have done nothing but fatten their wallets.

Borders are in place for a reason. If you don't like it, tough shit.

[athenaartemis]

Thanks tally ho.

[tallyho]

The key words in the original poster's Superman picture are "American", "Country", and "School".

Its a shame you see those as the keywords. I see 'race' 'religion' and 'national origin'

You have to remember that poster is 60-70 years old now - its a child of its time. If the message is heavy handed, that shouldn't detract from the principle of the message itself.

[1XFIB]

Asshole.. don't bring up politics here. Thank you.

[DrDominator9]

Asshole.. don't bring up politics here. Thank you.

A bit late for that, don't you think, rookie?

[tallyho]

Asshole.. don't bring up politics here. Thank you.

Forum rule no 1 - no personal insults

http://www.superheroineforum.com/viewto ... =1&t=20107

but thanks for being so polite afterwards.

Its the miscellaneous section, and its a plea for tolerance of people who are different.

[Mr. X]

Perhaps the biggest bigotry of all is assuming people need some lecture on not being a bigot.

[Bert]

I know, right? The worst part is the gun to your head forcing you to read something you don't want to read. And by an Ambassador, no less!

[Mr. X]

Or constant guilt tripping people who are INNOCENT of any wrong doing. I'm wondering, when you see black people, do you just lecture them about not stealing... you know... just in case? Or is it a fake moral high ground used to stir up trouble and make one feel good about grinding people into the dirt?

[tallyho]

OooooooK. LETS JUST LEAVE IT THERE CHAPS and rest assured this is the last time I make a post appealing for tolerance of others, lol.

[Bert]

I'm Canadian. Black people here are just people.

[Mr. X]

I'm Canadian. Black people here are just people.

Good. So you don't just drop a lecture on them about stealing now do you? You don't assume they need fixing now do you?

[Bert]

I guess you're right. That decades old comic book character appeal for kindness, in the face of a current politician successfully fear mongering against an entire world religion, in the miscellaneous section of a genre forum, is a punishment for people who aren't bigoted. I stand corrected.

[Ninja J.]

Perhaps the biggest bigotry of all is assuming people need some lecture on not being a bigot.

Except it's clearly true. No assumptions needed. Not all, but many people, without question, need a lecture on racism, sexism and homophobia. The evidence is the emergence Trump and the support of his rhetoric. When people say they like Trump because he says what they all think, that's not a good thing when the message is prejudicial or ignorant. What's scary is that at worst, Trump may come in second in a race to become the leader of a great and powerful nation. Which means even after a loss, Trump's notions will still have the influence of almost half of the country. So yes, many many people need a lecture on bigotry if the political trends say anything. Does every American deserve a lecture, or is a bigot? No, and no one is saying that. But when I hear some of the racist things on the internet and then hear people cry when others are critical of their racist and ignorant comments, it's clear that we are clearly going backwards in terms of race relations and equality.

[Mr. X]

Except it's clearly true. No assumptions needed. Not all, but many people, without question, need a lecture on racism, sexism and homophobia.

Oh OK, sure.

So when Carter banned Iranians from coming into the US was that racism?
When FDR interned the Japanese and banned Germans, Italians and Japanese from entering the US was that racism?

This is a fake message by fealots who are using a fake moral cause to just grind people into the dirt. Then hiding behind some innocent "I'm just stopping bigotry" claim.

No one elected anyone the Gods of Olympus to judge the rest of us.

Show me one person here who has been bigoted. Show me one person who needs a lecture?

This use of a cartoon for lesson teaching in itself is a bigoted assumption. Also the people promoting this message routinely auto label people as racist for any reason they like so its not like the word has any real meaning anymore.

So yeah call me racist. Like it means anything. Call everyone racist. Sure. Like that means so much.

[Mr. X]

I guess you're right. That decades old comic book character appeal for kindness, in the face of a current politician successfully fear mongering against an entire world religion, in the miscellaneous section of a genre forum, is a punishment for people who aren't bigoted. I stand corrected.

Stop being a fealot.

[Bert]

Is there a reasonable response to being called a fake zealot? I've wracked my brain and I've got nothing.

[viking]

Except it's clearly true. No assumptions needed. Not all, but many people, without question, need a lecture on racism, sexism and homophobia.

Oh OK, sure.

So when Carter banned Iranians from coming into the US was that racism?
When FDR interned the Japanese and banned Germans, Italians and Japanese from entering the US was that racism?

This is a fake message by fealots who are using a fake moral cause to just grind people into the dirt. Then hiding behind some innocent "I'm just stopping bigotry" claim.

No one elected anyone the Gods of Olympus to judge the rest of us.

Show me one person here who has been bigoted. Show me one person who needs a lecture?

This use of a cartoon for lesson teaching in itself is a bigoted assumption. Also the people promoting this message routinely auto label people as racist for any reason they like so its not like the word has any real meaning anymore.

So yeah call me racist. Like it means anything. Call everyone racist. Sure. Like that means so much.

Both of the examples you cite here are examples of prejudice based on fear. The Iranians wishing to come to the U S were those who opposed the Iranian regime. And there is no documented evidence that any of the interned Japanese-Americans were disloyal to the U S. In fact you might want to read about the U S Army's 442nd Regimental Combat Team.

I think the point is to not stereotype people. There are good people and there are bad people, and no race, religion, ethnic group or nationality has a monopoly on either the good or the bad. Judge people on their individual conduct.

[Mr. X]

I think the point is to not stereotype people. There are good people and there are bad people, and no race, religion, ethnic group or nationality has a monopoly on either the good or the bad. Judge people on their individual conduct.

Yes so giving EVERYONE a lecture on not being a bigot is wrong and a generalization. As you say judge people on their individual conduct.

[Mr. X]

Is there a reasonable response to being called a fake zealot? I've wracked my brain and I've got nothing.

Stop using an altruistic or fake cause to bash others. "I'm just stopping bigotry" is not an excuse to blanket lecture everyone and wave a finger at them. Yell at the bigots, not at the rest of us.

Do you need a lecture on not being a pedophile... you know... just in case? Or would it bother you that someone just automatically assumes your a pedophile that needs a lecture?

[ksire_99]

To those who are calling Trump a Bigot:

He is getting a lot of support from Minorities.



From: DCWhispers

"It is said to have been an internal poll conducted by one of Donald Trump’s GOP rivals.

(One of the campaigns that is currently cash-rich but tepid in the polls) A quick “test the water” outline in some of the more critical battleground states.

What came back stunned not only the campaign, but sent ripples through various Democratic operatives as well who have since been sending out the alarm.

Donald Trump is appealing to minority voters in a way not seen by any Republican of the modern era.

It is a base of support cutting through a cross-section of normally divided demographics that could result in a 2016 Trump Landslide."



I have seen multiple reports of this, and I believe Trump support is a backlash to the policies and the methods our current President uses to get what he wants AGAINST the MAJORITY of Americans.

P.S. Personally as a Republican (only real choice I have), I am not voting for him in the Primary...But, I sure as hell would over Hillary in the General Election!

[Bert]

@Mr. X - Other than some sarcasm directed at you I haven't bashed anyone with anything. And the act of posting the Superman panel seems like a reasonable Misc. section post to me - the oddity of something decades old being so apropos to the current climate of refugees and political grandstanding is worth sharing. There certainly wasn't any bashing going on, and posting the panel in no way implies that anyone reading it is being lectured to or maligned. Your reaction to this whole thing seems wildly out of sync with the content.

[Ninja J.]

To name some examples of bigoted people all you have to do is look at Mexican immigrants, who apparently are overwhelmingly criminals, Syrian refugees who are apparently overwhelmingly terrorists, and Black Lives Matter supporters, who are apparently overwhelmingly thugs. These are just some examples of bigoted people. Sure some immigrants are criminals and some BLM supporters are thugs and some refugees have been linked to ISIS but to stereotype everyone last individual as a terrorist, criminal or thug is wrong, blatantly racist or, at best, definitively illogical. All you need to do is pull up a topic and read some of the comments to hear how far backwards Americans have gone in terms of equality. To name some examples of racists currently, look no farther than Donald Trump, or that idiot governor from Maine. If they're not racist then they are godly ignorant. Neither is good.

As for Carter and FDR, yes that was wrong and racist based on fear. It's not much different from the cowardly response to the Syrian refugees of today.

And for the last time, not everyone is racist, and no one is assuming everyone is a racist, but racism does still exist. I will never understand how or why criticizing racism/stereotyping pisses people off more so than the racism itself.

[theScribbler]

edit, nevermind.

[Mr. X]

And for the last time, not everyone is racist, and no one is assuming everyone is a racist, but racism does still exist. I will never understand how or why criticizing racism/stereotyping pisses people off more so than the racism itself.

There are pedophiles.

Does that mean the people on this forum need a lecture on not being pedophiles?

Do you know how stupid this is?

People who are bigots aren't going to magically say "Oi! I didn't know bigotry was wrong! Good thing someone lectured me."

The people who are not bigots don't need a lecture. The people who are bigots will not listen to a lecture. So the lecture is pointless.

this is about as pointless as a company rounding up all the men to lecture them about sexual harassment.

[Bert]

I give up.

[Ninja J.]

There are pedophiles.

Does that mean the people on this forum need a lecture on not being pedophiles?

The argument is moot anyway, because the TC never said, "Hey, everyone here needs to listen up!" He said he had a "Message for Mr Trump" as the topic title states. He's not talking to you or anyone on this forum directly. He may be talking about the U.S. population in general which is fine by me since I believe it's something everyone needs to keep in mind especially with how things in this country are turning and the political leaders hoping to run this country.

But to entertain your pedophilia analogy, if pedophilia was as rampant as racism then yes, people on this forum should hear it. If people said ignorant things that perpetuate pedophilia, then yes people should hear it. If people thought that being educated in the averse effects of pedophilia was somehow insulting, then yes people should hear it. If people were having pedophilia pride parades, then yes people should hear it. If people were constantly talking about sexy young children in the workplace, among friends, on social media, and having meetings around a campfire wearing hoods talking about young children, then yes people on this forum and all over the country need to hear it. All of these happen about racism but not pedophilia, which is kinda a big difference. And to be clear, i've never heard anyone on this forum make a racist comment, but in terms of the political climate and rhetoric I'm hearing in the country as a whole is why I believe racism is still a major problem in America that needs addressing. Which is why reminders like the original post, I have no problem with.

People who are bigots aren't going to magically say "Oi! I didn't know bigotry was wrong! Good thing someone lectured me."

So we should just give up? I don't believe that people can't change. With education and awareness, some people can change. No everyone has to change but to change even one person's mind is worth it. And for those whose minds won't change, oh well. They can live however they want to live, and believe what they want to believe but that doesn't give them immunity to criticism anymore than we have immunity to their bigotry. I also think more people are simply ignorant rather than racist. That just necessitates more awareness, in my opinion.

The people who are not bigots don't need a lecture. The people who are bigots will not listen to a lecture. So the lecture is pointless.

This is unbelieveably wrong. Awareness and education are always helpful. I don't see how a lecture or could have any averse effects whatsoever. I'm not a racist at all but I've learned a great deal about gangs, poverty, lack of education and socioeconomic status that I never knew about. It brings a whole new light to many misconceptions I had about high crime areas in the country. Sure some morons may never change but most people aren't racist but just ignorant instead. To educate the ignorant or those who simply aren't aware of the differences between the races and cultures can have nothing but a positive effect. How a lecture or education or awareness of different races and cultures and the negatives stereotypes attached to them can be considered a bad thing just because not everyone is a racist is beyond me.

this is about as pointless as a company rounding up all the men to lecture them about sexual harassment.

It's only pointless if the company does nothing about sexual harassment. Most people don't see how even telling a joke can have negative effects in the workplace. So it's not pointless, if the employees are educated. That doesn't mean everyone will listen or care about sexual harassment which is why companies need to fire the individuals who aren't following the Code of Conduct. And if calling coworkers "sluts" and "bitches" is okay with anyone on this forum or any of my fellow coworkers, well honestly, I still really don't care. It doesn't affect me or anyone else as long as they keep it to themselves in the workplace.

[tallyho]

I've learned a lot from this thread - namely not use veiled irony with an American.

There is no political comment in my post - I just posted the poster. I can't see how it is either bigotted or a 'lecture' on the basis I've said nothing- I genuinely thought people would find it interesting, topical and slightly amusing. A window on a by gone era whose message still had some value.No lecture intended. No lecture actually given either. The politics was in my title and the reference to Mr Trump, which I did as I thought it was a bit of a light-hearted ironic joke that you have a guy standing for president of a country that was built on immigration speaking out against .... immigration, with an iconic American hero figure saying its the opposite of what America stands for. I thought it was moderately amusing. And a little sad too when his statement is in response to 14 people being killed in a terrorist attack when 12,500 of your own citizens are shot by each other each year but you can't do anything about that because the gun lobby rules.

I could just as easily have put 'Superman's message to us all', but then I'd be apparently lecturing myself indirectly, so best not do that. Or even 'Superman's message to Mr X' as it turned out .

I don't know how a message on tolerance and moderation can cause so much upset but it seems to have. Not my intention but there we are.

Bottom line if you want to elect an egomaniacal Bond villain and live in the United States of Trump feel free - I am not telling anyone how to vote I am merely asking people to be tolerant of people who are different for whatever reason.

If that makes me a bigoted asshole, then fine I'm proud to be a bigoted asshole.

Send more insults my way of you feel you must. Just treat each other decently though, yeah?
All I was ever trying to say.

[Mr. X]

The reason is people have not done something wrong. This is a non-issue. Hey Andrea Yates murdered her children... should we give all women a lecture on not murdering their children... you know... just in case? Or is that just condescending to women as all fuck?

Bottom line if you want to elect an egomaniacal Bond villain and live in the United States of Trump feel free

So you say you're not political then sneak in this kind of comment. I don't support Trump but as an American I am sick of the name calling from both sides and especially from people outside the US who don't know what's going on.

Stop auto assuming people who are not like you are racists. Wearing the word out is all that you're doing.

[Dogfish]

Says a lot about where we are as a society, in the global sense, when a statement of tolerance and understanding can be this controversial.

https://vine.co/v/eT2DBdK3t0Y