An Open Letter to New Producers

General discussions about superheroines!
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Superman246o1
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Dear New Producer,

Thank you for your interest in the genre. It's good to have new talent that can offer us exciting and different takes on this particular fantasy. And of course, this will hopefully become a lucrative venture for you. You want our money, and many of us want to give you our money. Presuming, of course, that we get what we want in the deal.

I worry, however, that some new producers don't fully understand what the Superheroine genre is about. That's not necessarily a bad thing; it is a rather unique fetish. Nevertheless, it can be problematic: producers want to devote their limited time and resources towards making a product that will sell well, and customers want to devote their limited funds towards buying products that they will enjoy the most.

That's why I'm here to help.

I offer, free-of-charge, my expertise as an aficionado of all things involving Superheroines. Over the past fiften years, I have collected – one at a time – 65,851 images, stories, videos and even soundbytes featuring Superheroines. I have spent thousands of dollars purchasing videos, acquiring rare comics, and buying high-quality costumes for girlfriends to wear. Now that I think about it, I am a more qualified expert on the topic of Superheroines than on any subject that I studied in college or undertaken professionally. Many would say that's pathetic. I would say that's pathetic. But I'd say that also makes me an expert.


Image
“An expert what, exactly?”


I am not writing this to target any single producer. My intent is not to insult anyone, and if anything I write below seems offensive, please accept my sincere apologies. I have not polled any other customers on their thoughts, and they are more than welcome to disagree with me in the comments below. But I freely offer the three key insights that you will need to make me give you absurd amounts of my hard-earned cash. Take it as you will.


1) Know Your Source Material

Are you producing movies like this because you honestly love the genre, or simply because you see an underserved niche that you can make a profit off of? Both are perfectly legitimate reasons to work in the business, but if it's the latter, that's going to affect the quality of your work, unless you do your homework.

Many fans were first introduced to the genre via either the comics or the live-action adaptations thereof. Few of us spontaneously got into these videos without prior exposure to tales of superheroines fighting against the forces of evil. So the greater your understanding of the original source material is, the more you may appeal to your prospective customers. There are a number of new videos out that treat the superheroine genre as an amalgam of other fetishes, albeit in costumes. That is fine, but it's not going to inspire my patronage.


Image
"You want to do what with my feet?"


If you're going to portray an existing superheroine, know that superheroine. What are her powers? Who are her enemies? How would she respond in a given situation? Why does she devote herself to fighting crime? The better your understanding of a superheroine, the more likely you'll be able to depict her accurately in a video designed to entice her fans. And the closer you can get to the source material that inspired our fantasies to begin with, the closer we may get to making a purchase.

Watch whatever existing material there is of the superheroine you're depicting. Buy a copy of the Supergirl film, or borrow the Wonder Woman TV series on Netflix, or watch Electra Woman & Dyna Girl on YouTube. Yes, these programs were designed for children, but they've also influenced the minds of the pervy adults some of those children turned into. I don't want to feel like I'm buying a movie of an average woman wearing a Batgirl outfit; I want feel like I'm buying a new episode of an actual series that features the new adventures of Batgirl. You generally can't replicate the budget of the original source material (although I suspect anyone with $50 could match the budget of the original Electra Woman & Dyna Girl show), but you can accurately replicate the core character of the Superheroine in question.


[youtube][/youtube]
A two-hour movie. A lifetime fantasy.




2) High Quality Outfits

Please bear in mind that the outfit for a superheroine is not a costume; it's a uniform. It's supposed to instantly identify the wearer as an extraordinary heroine, not look like a mass-produced Halloween costume. Clothes may make the man, but the leotard/bodysuit makes the superheroine. Please focus on what a difference a good or bad outfit may make. Contrast a picture of Lynda Carter as Wonder Woman...


Image
Here to save the world!


...vs. a standard Wonder Woman costume for Halloween.


Image
Here to get drunk at the party!


I can imagine what you're thinking. "But Superman246o1, the cheap Halloween costumes only cost $20, while a high-quality custom outfit costs $250 - $400. Why should I waste money on an expensive custom design when I can just get something from Wal-Mart?"

My answer is that it's never a waste to spend more money to bring in more customers; it's an investment. When I see an actress wearing a cheap costume in a preview for a genre video, I immediately lose interest in purchasing that video, and continue shopping with other vendors offering higher-quality videos. Someone wearing a superhero costume from Target isn't going to remind me of the original source material that inspired my interest [see Item 1 above]. Instead, it's going to suggest that the producer wasn't interested in making a decent video. And if the producer can't be bothered to make something good, why should I be bothered to buy it?


Image
Meh.


Let's presume that you can buy a mass-produced Batgirl costume for $20, or a custom-tailored replica of Yvonne Craig's Batgirl bodysuit for $200. Sure, the former seems like a better deal. But if you're selling a Batgirl video with that costume, the latter bodysuit might attract more customers that want to relive the thrill of watching Yvonne Craig fight evildoers. If you're selling videos for $20, all it takes is a net of 10 additional customers to make up the cost of outfit. And if the great costume inspires even more people to buy the video that otherwise wouldn't, you're making a greater profit than you would have with the cheap costume. As a customer, I can vouch that the quality of the costume has often played a key role in my decision to make a purchase.


Image
Much better.


If funds are limited -- and whose aren't these days -- you can also make a high-quality outfit yourself. Thousands of cosplayers do this on a regular basis each year, and they do it simply for their personal enjoyment. If recreational role-players can devote the time to making a high-quality outfit, so can a producer who is using the outfit in a for-profit venture.


Image
Worth every penny.



3) Power and Peril

The eroticism of superheroines in peril is an unconventional fetish. It is, in some ways, both an empowering fantasy (focusing on heroic women who are more confident, capable and competent than any mortal man), and a misogynistic one (focusing on the aforementioned heroines being weakened and/or endangered). Often simultaneously. If you can reconcile and depict these otherwise antithetical concepts, you can make the perfect superheroine film.


Image
"I can fly through space or lift a bus. But green rocks are tough to deal with."


It seems that a number of professionals who work in the fetish industry are used to depictions of women being denigrated from start to finish. Conversely, those that have worked in more dominatrix-oriented genres are familiar with women being domineering and controlling throughout the entirety of the encounter. Neither of these approaches will work well by itself in depicting a superheroine in peril. If she seems powerless or incompetent from the start, she's not a superheroine; she's just some bimbo in a Halloween outfit. And if she is in control of things throughout the video and never in danger, then there is no peril.

An important balance is to capture both of these aspects of the genre. Perhaps spend a quarter, a third, or even half of the video demonstrating that your superheroine is, indeed, super. It makes her more believable as a heroic character, and it has the added bonus of making the peril that much more thrilling. If the superheroine has already demonstrated that she has amazing skills and powers, a scenario where even she is overwhelmed becomes extremely exciting.

It's important to keep the ratio of the peril consistent with the powers of the superheroine in question. If you depict Wonder Woman shrugging off blows that would crush a normal person's bones early in the video, it's not going to seem particularly threatening later if the villain starts tickling her feet with a feather. There's no sense of "Oh God! How will she get out of this?!" There's only a sense of, "Oh. Well, here's a 17-minute foot tickling sequence for the tickle-fetishists. I guess I should have bought that video that [Rival Producer X] made instead."

For me, the perfect balance of both power and peril comes from the climax of the Supergirl film. Helen Slater's superheroine is a perfect icon: courageous, powerful, and fighting to save the world from destruction (make that two worlds, technically). If you haven't seen it lately, please watch the clip below, as the last showdown is depicted well. There are a few minor challenges that Supergirl has to stand up against, but she uses her powers and her conviction to defy the villainess. The major peril kicks in right as Supergirl seems to be her most confident. Note the change from 2:32 - 2:45 vs. 2:46 - 3:12. The tone of the film changes significantly, as Supergirl goes from being easily assured of her victory to being terrified by the monster that wants to destroy her. The highlight of the clip is the actual peril she suffers from 3:30 - 4:22. But the aforementioned reaction shot was almost equally enjoyable. If peril is the highlight, then the transition from confident and powerful to fearful and overwhelmed is the foreplay.


[youtube][/youtube]


I do not expect you to replicate the scale of that clip. But if you can capture its spirit, and you are/have an actress who can personify the essence of a superheroine, you will have my money for as long as you make videos.

I hope this helped. If it did, great; I'm going to be a future customer of yours. If it didn't, that's great too; I wish you all the best in the genre. Either way, thank you for your interest in making superheroine films. It is an industry that I love, and I hope you love working in it.
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drh1966
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Great letter, this guy gets it. Glad to know I'm not the only one. But I don't see things changiing. There's a reason our little corner of the internet has gotten corrupted and the original idea and fantasy behind SHIP is missing. Girl on girl porn sells and so do feet for some reason. Throw a costume on the girls and there's most producer's idea of a superheroine video.

However, Supergirl the Movie sucked ass. And this love for Helen Slater? Don't see it. Maybe it's because nobody else has played her. Kind of like how everyone can't get past Lynda Carter as Wonder Woman (no, I don't count Palicki because she was a one shot that most people never saw and not even a good one at that. I see much hotter WW chicks on Halloween).

Aside from that, I agree totally. Good job.
"There's no feeling quite as exciting as that of having a helpless superheroine in your arms"
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SHL
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I like this break down a lot. Very good read.
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sign4deaf
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Two points:

First, I agree with almost every word Superman246o1. You have concisely put into words my impressions about this genre and hopes for future productions.

Second, I do hope that any producers reading the post will understand that everyone has a different perspective/list of preferences/attitude/desires/etc. While I agree with the post, many others will not agree with some/all of it. And these are paying customers as well. For example, I don't want to see any type of simulated sex, but many do. And it might be their numbers that allow a producer to stay in business, and able to sometimes make films that suit my tastes.

I'm sure it wasn't your intent, but we need to be careful in thinking one voice speaks for us all. For the first time in the 8 years I've been an active member of this board, we have a large number of models and producers actively seeking out input. I would hate for oone, who may be inexperienced, to come away thinking that any one person can speak to everyone's tastes.

But again, thank you S246o1 for saying almost verbatim what at least I have thought for years.

sign4deaf
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Centurion
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Hear, hear! Nothing ruins a vid more than a costume that makes the "heroine" look like a hooker with a mask. Except a heroine that gets captured so easily you conclude... oh yeah, she really is just a hooker in a mask!
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rb9
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Thanks for writing this. It's very articulate and points out how must things on C4S are complete garbage. It's getting pretty annoying how much filler one has to sift through now, of just porn in superheroine costumes. I miss the days when MH was one of less than 5 producers doing this stuff.

edit: I vote this go in the producer forum (so producers can see it better)... if that's possible
Visit the Misc Topics forum if you'd like to see a hypno subforum get created...
cfludd
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Superman246o1 wrote:
Image
Meh.
Man, do I ever hate this costume! It looks like a trash bag and it's unflattering on every model. I'll never purchase a video if I see this or that supergirl costume
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tallyho
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Good post, and I agree with a fair bit of what's said, except the bit about us turning into perverts -I am happy to be labelled a pervert for doing something perverted(I ask you, is my carnal lust for a goldfish so wrong?) :D but I just see this fetish as rare rather than a perversion, the bottom line being we are getting turned on by looking at beautiful women wearing (or not according to taste) clothes that we like to see them in. Who is to say what's 'normal' ?
Joking aside some good points, but I would echo the caveat about one voice for many. Now, back to Goldie.... :lol:
Ps very well illustrated points, but I must ask ....what's wrong with a hooker in a mask?
:D(don't bother to answer just kidding, I agree wholeheartedly about costume quality)
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Supergirl is mine
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For me, the perfect balance of both power and peril comes from the climax of the Supergirl film. Helen Slater's superheroine is a perfect icon: courageous, powerful, and fighting to save the world from destruction (make that two worlds, technically). If you haven't seen it lately, please watch the clip below, as the last showdown is depicted well. There are a few minor challenges that Supergirl has to stand up against, but she uses her powers and her conviction to defy the villainess. The major peril kicks in right as Supergirl seems to be her most confident. Note the change from 2:32 - 2:45 vs. 2:46 - 3:12. The tone of the film changes significantly, as Supergirl goes from being easily assured of her victory to being terrified by the monster that wants to destroy her. The highlight of the clip is the actual peril she suffers from 3:30 - 4:22. But the aforementioned reaction shot was almost equally enjoyable. If peril is the highlight, then the transition from confident and powerful to fearful and overwhelmed is the foreplay.

Totally agree with everything you said mate but this bit in particular. For me i think you are spot on, the point you refer to in your example is perfect as also i think is the scene where Supergirl flys to Selena's fortress to rescue Ethan, another great example. I think the reason i so love Supergirl is the fact that she is so strong and powerful for most the time yet produce some kryptonite and she is weak defenceless and scared within seconds, so sexy! Like you say its like foreplay, good call!
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swampy170
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I have been thinking this over all day. It's good to get the opinion the of experienced producers too.

I agree with pretty much all the points made in the initial post.


However I'd say (in agreement with Evangeline) far too much emphasis is going into the need for these amazing quality, extremely expensive costumes. Speaking as someone who has ordered their fair share of custom costumes, they can be hit and miss - and don't guarantee value for money.


Curently my Superheroine peril collection is running at 250gb of images, text and vids - of that collection, some of the best content has actually been with costumes thrown together at the last minute or shop bought.

My point is:

Yes, the costume is important - but not as important as the way the characters are played and the content involved. You can have the best costume in the world, but if the model does a terrible job playing a heroine there's no point having such a great costume.


Essentially I just want to doubly emphasize, don't lean on a costume - sure it'll sell initially but that'll stop very rapidly when bad reviews pile in. Put as much (if not more) effort into great direction and perils and you'll go far.


If you're wanting to know what really sells in terms of peril, look to GIGA from japan. Not to my taste personally, but they are the kings of peril.
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sign4deaf
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Supergirl is mine wrote:If you haven't seen it lately, please watch the clip below, as the last showdown is depicted well.
You forgot to attach the clip to reference. Looking forward to dissecting it as per your commentary.
Can't move... This device... holding me by my... sheer tights... has me powerless!
Bert

I think Superman's piece should be required reading for any producer working in this genre. Further, while I agree with all three of his points (Know the source material, good costumes, power and peril), I think point three is the most important. Knowing the source material is essential if doing a video of an established heroine, but a producer can also develop their own heroine rather than researching an existing one. This approach can also make point two easier, as the costume can be something simpler. For example, Next Global Crisis gave us Angel in episode #2, and the costume was a simple silver catsuit with a cape and boots. Very sexy and not prohibitively expensive.

Point three is the biggie, and Superman is bang on. Superheroine peril is exciting for a specific reason. Women are generally less strong and less violent than men. They are more likely to be the victim of violence, and more likely to be the victim of a sexual attack. The idea of a superheroine donning a costume and putting herself on the line to fight the baddies is thus very compelling. There is a lot at stake, because if she loses she knows what might happen. It's a very dramatic concept, but the drama hinges on what Sman calls "power and peril". She must begin confident and have good reason to be so. That means demonstrating her competence early in the video. It doesn't have to be completely one-sided with the heroine easily dominating - a little back and forth can help make the coming peril more believable - but she must demonstrate why she is a heroine to create the anticipation for the coming peril. It's critical that some time be devoted to this part of the story to set up the next phase.

As for the actual peril, the genre is diverse and many producers have carved out niches for themselves. That great, but one element that I see overlooked again and again is the transition from powerful to in peril. It's much more exciting if the heroine is overcome gradually than all at once. The emotional shift from confidence to contemplating defeat is the crux of the issue. She's out there fighting crime because she's confident in her abilities. Seeing that confidence challenged, seeing her start to realize she might lose, and all that entails - that's where the drama is. Putting a woman in an XYZ heroine costume and subjecting her to ABC peril for the entire video is not going to translate to a purchase from me.

Also,when things start to go bad for the heroine, I want to see an escalation in her reactions. If the peril section starts off with the heroine in full on helpless, full volume moaning mode, there's no way to increase the tension. Take a little time to build up to it.

This might all sound a little daunting to prospective producers, but I don't think it has to be. I'm talking about a basic template with tons of room to be creative. It just means putting some thought into the framework of the story. Act one - display heroine's competence. Act 2 - introduce worthy opponent and have heroine feel challenged. Act 3 - heroine is increasingly imperiled. This format captures the essential appeal of the genre and can be executed in an unlimited number of ways.

Okay, maybe that was a bit more than two cents worth, but thanks for reading.
viking
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You have clearly articulated the difference between the superheroines in peril genre and the superheroines in porn material that has become so prevalent. Thank you for taking the time to present you views.
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Supergirl is mine
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sign4deaf wrote:
Supergirl is mine wrote:If you haven't seen it lately, please watch the clip below, as the last showdown is depicted well.
You forgot to attach the clip to reference. Looking forward to dissecting it as per your commentary.
Sorry man i was quoting a section of what Superman246o1 had said but for some reason its not worked, you can view the clip in his earlier message, its a good clip! :D
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Centurion wrote:Hear, hear! Nothing ruins a vid more than a costume that makes the "heroine" look like a hooker with a mask.
I don't have any problem with a heroine who looks like a hooker in a mask; in fact, a vigilante hooker sounds like a great character for this genre.

The issue with storebought costumes isn't really that they're low-cost or uncanonically midriff-baring so much as they don't fit well and they're unflattering. Hookers try to look sexy; there's nothing sexy about misshapen clothing.*

The trap that producers seem drawn into is that they go for the parodies of the big brand-name characters. But brand recognition is a double-edged sword. Those characters carry a lot of baggage, and it starts with the uniform. The classic supergirl, wonder woman, and batgirl ensembles are complicated. They have multiple elements and they have to fit and move and lay just so or they look like the aforementioned trash bags.

Storebought costumes seem designed either for a Halloween party or the bedroom. The actual characters' uniforms fall in between on the public indecency scale. Batgirl's covered head to toe but it's like walking around naked. Supergirl's skirt is SHORT, and her jumblies have nowhere to hide either. Wonder Woman is like Batgirl at 50% off. Rare is the woman who would actually be seen in mixed company with butts and breasts so undisguised.

This is why I think producers should start with original characters. Put together simple costumes that fit well and flatter the particular actress's figure, and give them skills/powers and (as important) vulnerabilities/weaknesses that you can pull off in your narrative. If you can't make an original character work, you're probably not steeped in the genre enough to do well.

Don't tackle the brand-names head-on until you find (or can have made) pieces that actually make the actress look super.

Supergirl especially. A skirt should not look like living room curtains FFS.


*unless that's your specific fetish, of course
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justnorm
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"Storebought costumes seem designed either for a Halloween party or the bedroom." The bedroom...Hmmm. I might have to suggest that to the wife ...lol. Jumblies... Ok what are jumblies? Have not heard this term before...
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Woah, nobody's calling any actress or model a hooker here. Methinks you're running a fever!

A bad costume can look cheap and trashy and ruin the character -- have you never heard the term "dressed like a hooker" before? Of course I posit that the storebought costumes are of such poor fit that not even a hooker would wear them...
Bert

Hey guys, I sent in a fairly lengthy message on this topic yesterday and I'm wondering why it didn't get posted.
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All new users and posts are filtered for spam. Once you are identified as a human and not a bot, you can post at will. Carry on, human!
Bert

Thanks. Very validating!
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Manta Ray Jack
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MightyHypnotic wrote:All new users and posts are filtered for spam. Once you are identified as a human and not a bot, you can post at will. Carry on, human!
I pretty much thought the OP was spot on but really had no intention of posting just to say that. HOWEVER, in light of the above quote, I will now post to say that I agree with the OP just so that if the time comes when I really, really feel like I have something to say, I won't say it just to see it go *poof*.

My first time wasn't supposed to be like this! :cry:
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I don't want to derail this thread but the only thing that happens is a short delay of your first post. It doesn't get wiped out. Once your post is published, all subsequent posts are immediate.
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joser590
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Bert wrote:I think Superman's piece should be required reading for any producer working in this genre. Further, while I agree with all three of his points (Know the source material, good costumes, power and peril), I think point three is the most important. Knowing the source material is essential if doing a video of an established heroine, but a producer can also develop their own heroine rather than researching an existing one. This approach can also make point two easier, as the costume can be something simpler. For example, Next Global Crisis gave us Angel in episode #2, and the costume was a simple silver catsuit with a cape and boots. Very sexy and not prohibitively expensive.

Point three is the biggie, and Superman is bang on. Superheroine peril is exciting for a specific reason. Women are generally less strong and less violent than men. They are more likely to be the victim of violence, and more likely to be the victim of a sexual attack. The idea of a superheroine donning a costume and putting herself on the line to fight the baddies is thus very compelling. There is a lot at stake, because if she loses she knows what might happen. It's a very dramatic concept, but the drama hinges on what Sman calls "power and peril". She must begin confident and have good reason to be so. That means demonstrating her competence early in the video. It doesn't have to be completely one-sided with the heroine easily dominating - a little back and forth can help make the coming peril more believable - but she must demonstrate why she is a heroine to create the anticipation for the coming peril. It's critical that some time be devoted to this part of the story to set up the next phase.

As for the actual peril, the genre is diverse and many producers have carved out niches for themselves. That great, but one element that I see overlooked again and again is the transition from powerful to in peril. It's much more exciting if the heroine is overcome gradually than all at once. The emotional shift from confidence to contemplating defeat is the crux of the issue. She's out there fighting crime because she's confident in her abilities. Seeing that confidence challenged, seeing her start to realize she might lose, and all that entails - that's where the drama is. Putting a woman in an XYZ heroine costume and subjecting her to ABC peril for the entire video is not going to translate to a purchase from me.

Also,when things start to go bad for the heroine, I want to see an escalation in her reactions. If the peril section starts off with the heroine in full on helpless, full volume moaning mode, there's no way to increase the tension. Take a little time to build up to it.

This might all sound a little daunting to prospective producers, but I don't think it has to be. I'm talking about a basic template with tons of room to be creative. It just means putting some thought into the framework of the story. Act one - display heroine's competence. Act 2 - introduce worthy opponent and have heroine feel challenged. Act 3 - heroine is increasingly imperiled. This format captures the essential appeal of the genre and can be executed in an unlimited number of ways.

Okay, maybe that was a bit more than two cents worth, but thanks for reading.
+1

Holy shit!!! You hit the nail right on the coffin man!

The above post is exactly what is missed time and time again in many superheroine peril movies. Even some of my favorite producers are guility of making this mistake.

Sometimes, that period between power and full on peril is the hottest piece of the video and the most thrilling. Watching those reactions that a superheroine has when she realizes she is in trouble can be very hot.

Thank you for posting what I could never ever put into words. Hope you don't mind that I save your post for future reference.
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Superman246o1
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Thanks to everyone for your replies! It's interesting to see your thoughts on this genre, and hopefully, some new producer reading this now or in the future may be able to benefit from our feedback. And if they benefit, so will we as customers. :-D

Manta Ray Jack wrote:I pretty much thought the OP was spot on but really had no intention of posting just to say that. HOWEVER, in light of the above quote, I will now post to say that I agree with the OP just so that if the time comes when I really, really feel like I have something to say, I won't say it just to see it go *poof*.

My first time wasn't supposed to be like this! :cry:

Also, welcome to the board, Bert and Manta Ray Jack!
Bert

Some thoughts on the Supergirl film with Helen Slater:

The movie is well structured and does a good job of meeting Superman246o1's three requirements. And Helen Slater is really good in the role of Supergirl. Unfortunately, it is poorly written and directed. Good structure, bad execution.

For example, the climax scene. It has great moments, almost entirely because of Slater's performance, but it is also maddeningly botched. The brick wall scene makes no sense. I think the original screenplay had Supergirl being buried under the fallen bricks. They changed that, but left the first bit in. Why? Then the quaking floor panels - well played by Helen, but why wouldn't Supergirl simply fly or hover over it? Finally, the battle with the monster - the absolute climax of the movie - and it's a blurry special effects disaster! Helen did her best but that scene is a mess and such a letdown.

I own the movie and have watched it many times, but I've always seen it as a missed opportunity. It's saved by the lovely Helen Slater and a great Supergirl costume, but it could have been so much more.

Bert

P.S. In a perfect world, the two bozo truckers would have shown up again at the end, suitably powered up in some fashion by Selena, and given Supergirl a bit more of a challenge!
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I agree with your opinion.
So, I work fits in your opinion are made.
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Supergirl is mine
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Bert wrote:Some thoughts on the Supergirl film with Helen Slater:

The movie is well structured and does a good job of meeting Superman246o1's three requirements. And Helen Slater is really good in the role of Supergirl. Unfortunately, it is poorly written and directed. Good structure, bad execution.

For example, the climax scene. It has great moments, almost entirely because of Slater's performance, but it is also maddeningly botched. The brick wall scene makes no sense. I think the original screenplay had Supergirl being buried under the fallen bricks. They changed that, but left the first bit in. Why? Then the quaking floor panels - well played by Helen, but why wouldn't Supergirl simply fly or hover over it? Finally, the battle with the monster - the absolute climax of the movie - and it's a blurry special effects disaster! Helen did her best but that scene is a mess and such a letdown.

I own the movie and have watched it many times, but I've always seen it as a missed opportunity. It's saved by the lovely Helen Slater and a great Supergirl costume, but it could have been so much more.

Bert

P.S. In a perfect world, the two bozo truckers would have shown up again at the end, suitably powered up in some fashion by Selena, and given Supergirl a bit more of a challenge!
Totally agree man, a massive missed opportunity, like you say Helen Slater is awesome and looks beautifully sexy in the costume but the script was daft and effects some what ropey. I cannot believe as well that we did not get the chance to see the lovely Helen weakened by kryptonite at some point, if this had happened for me it would have been the greatest movie moment ever!!! :D
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Bookmarked this for awesome points. I'm currently watching the most random array of superhero films ever in order to better understand the genre and refresh my memory of certain things. Hopefully one day I can afford a super cool costume or I'll just have Scott teach me to sew. One or the other.
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Yes there were missed opportunities but that silly movie molded my fetish... It turned on a light switch that never went away and confused the shit out of me as a kid :) Ah the good old days..

As bad as it was I owe that terrible movie a big thanks though. If hollywood makes another I will be first in line.
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Rye wrote:Yes there were missed opportunities but that silly movie molded my fetish... It turned on a light switch that never went away and confused the shit out of me as a kid :) Ah the good old days..

As bad as it was I owe that terrible movie a big thanks though. If hollywood makes another I will be first in line.
Exactly the same for me Rye! :D
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The letter comes off as really pretentious.

I don't think producers should be insulted because they use cheaper costumes, or include more traditional "adult elements"

You ask 50 different people what they're into, and you'll get 50 variations on the superhero genre. You're not an authority on the superheroine fetish, you're an authority on the very specific elements that make up YOUR fetish.

And quite honestly, listening to this guy is no guarantee your clips will sell. I think that anyone that has watched the genre for any span of time realizes that things have been getting more hardcore and "traditional". That's just what sells and producers are going to cater to what people want.
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Okay, in fairness to lonewolf99, I'm the one responsible for the necromancy of this four-year-old thread as I linked to it on the "Looking for an in" thread.
lonewolf99 wrote:The letter comes off as really pretentious.

I don't think producers should be insulted because they use cheaper costumes, or include more traditional "adult elements"

You ask 50 different people what they're into, and you'll get 50 variations on the superhero genre. You're not an authority on the superheroine fetish, you're an authority on the very specific elements that make up YOUR fetish.

And quite honestly, listening to this guy is no guarantee your clips will sell. I think that anyone that has watched the genre for any span of time realizes that things have been getting more hardcore and "traditional". That's just what sells and producers are going to cater to what people want.
I don't see any "very specific elements" in the opening post. Having decent-looking costumes and some semblance of a narrative structure is what I'd expect for any video which depicts a struggle between good and evil. If you ask 50 members of this forum what they want, I'm pretty sure the vast majority of them will want a superheroine who looks the part and a villain/ess who poses some sort of threat. Those are the fundamentals, not the quirky niche requests.
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lonewolf99 wrote:The letter comes off as really pretentious.

I don't think producers should be insulted because they use cheaper costumes, or include more traditional "adult elements"

You ask 50 different people what they're into, and you'll get 50 variations on the superhero genre. You're not an authority on the superheroine fetish, you're an authority on the very specific elements that make up YOUR fetish.

And quite honestly, listening to this guy is no guarantee your clips will sell. I think that anyone that has watched the genre for any span of time realizes that things have been getting more hardcore and "traditional". That's just what sells and producers are going to cater to what people want.
Speaking as a producer who wandered into this genre 4-5 years ago and read this post when it was fresh off the presses I can say without a doubt that this piece really helped me as a producer.

And here's the thing that was missing from the piece.

When we started all we had were the halloween costumes. the cheap 20-45 dollar crap.

Our videos did not do well.

But heres the thing.
Once I made it very public that we were saying to buy a Latex Batgirl the movies started selling.
The customer base was forgiving.
they now knew that we were starting from nothing and we were hoping to build a wardrobe that was kicks!
and they had faith and supported the crap costumes.
When we got our first latex batgirl the sales went through the roof, but the costume could never have been afforded if it weren't for the faith of the members here.

The original post is very well written and after 5 years of producing super heroine content I can say he hit the nail on the head!

sure not everyone needs flashy costumes and some will forgive trashy slut customs....
but this post wasn't meant to target all customers, just the majority of them.
Sure there will be some who want great thousand dollar costumes, and those who will for4give a cheap costume.
there are those who also want pantyhose, and not bare leg.
Boots instead of high heels,
mask remain and some demising.
Boot removal and no boot removal.
yes....not everyone here likes everything the same.....
but where the costumes are involved the majority do want realistic costumes.
they also don't want the same costume everyone else has either.

you can argue your position and you have every right to your opinion,
but my statement comes from 5 years of sales. hard numbers that show we did horribly until we mentioned we were going to save for costumes, then they put some faith in us and supported the crappy costumes until we could afford a good one. then the sales lifted.


I can say that if it weren't for this post we would have failed miserable years ago and gone back to sleepy and freeze which were our cash cows.

instead we have had a great run with super heroines and super heroines opened the door to Vampires which is our number one content seller.
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Production values, acting, and script/story are the holy trinity of superheroine vids. I've probably seen hundreds of videos and the ones that stand out are the ones with good stories and superheroines that "sell it" through their acting.

Like others have said here... You can have a million dollar costume but if the model isn't into it, or gives that sort of fake pornstar type thing - it's all ruined. I've seen it too many times and wasted too much money on clips that are just pathetic.

Anf as far as the superheroine fetish genre being forgiving? I really don't think so... I've spoken with multiple producers on here and superheroine fetish fans are some of the pickiest, most fickle customers out there. For the very reasons that I outlined - you ask 50 people what they're into, you're gonna get 50 different answers. It's almost impossible to make a clip that pleases everyone.

But to imply that a producer doesn't understand the genre because they use a low budget costume is just pretentious in my book. No one person speaks for everyone and he sure as hell doesn't speak for me.
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Fair play, some valid points. There's definitely a formula that works, but then again breaking out of that formula is how you become the next "big thing".

As someone with a similar background, having been a fan for well over a decade collecting superheroine and superheroine-related content, I'd say I'm of a similar level of knowledge - with the someone glaring addition that I've worked on what have been considered some of the top superheroine films of the past few years.

Still not an expert however.

One should never declare one's self an expert - it's bad form. Additionally an "expert" is more correctly defined as a "ex" "spurt" - or has-been drip under pressure ;-)

Making superheroine films is right is not actually that hard - but if you do it right all the time you do tend just make the same video continuously.

For new producers my advice would be experiment, but don't be disheartened if your new formula does not stick it immediately - the old pros have had their fair share of flops, it's a thing.
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The problem with the cheap Halloween costumes is not so much about the lack of expense, but rather the lack of creativity. It's the sign of a lazy producer just picking up the most basic thing they can find as quickly as possible with no thought to how it will look. Honestly, it really isn't rocket science to make a fairly decent Supergirl costume with a cheap blue leotard, red skirt, red sheet and print off a logo transfer. Yet some producers are content to spend a similar amount of money on something like the vile atrocity pictured below because it takes no effort to buy that ready-made.

There may also be a misguided belief that buying any "official" DC-licensed version of the costume is somehow better than making one from inexpensive parts.
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lonewolf99 wrote: Anf as far as the superheroine fetish genre being forgiving? I really don't think so...
Meh. Doesn't matter to me what you think is so or not.
I have only the sales reports to back my theory. you have nothing but conjecture and a really strong opinion.
I KNOW for a fact our sales were hurting.
I KNOW for a fact people wanted better costumes because they told us as much
I KNOW for a fact that once I said we were saving for a good costume the sales got better and stayed better until we got the new $1200 costume and then they went through the roof.
these are things I can prove with the sales and the time stamps on conversations.

You're allowed your opinion but not when its disguised as fact.
Sorry


lonewolf99 wrote: I've spoken with multiple producers on here and superheroine fetish fans are some of the pickiest, most fickle customers out there.
It's 100% true. they are the most pickiest most fickle customers in any niche ever.... but that doesn't change the fact that once I said I was saving for better costumes they came out to support us. Listen I know first hand just how fickle they are.
I offered a 90 minute video for $5 and the majority said they wouldn't contribute because there was no pantyhose, or no bare leg, or no De-masking, or no de-Booting. and those that did get catered to still put off ordering a $5 90 minute movie because there was a debate as to which costume should be used, the $2500 one, the $1200 one, or the $250 one.
Thats all fairly easy to see from the posts....doesnt change the fact that when I announced i was saving for a good costume the support came out from where there was no support at all.

And all of it came from the original post.
thats where Im coming from.
The man had some things dead on.
He said it and it was highly agreed on and sparked lots of conversations that changed how many producers looked at p[roducing.
This was a seriously important post at the time....maybe its not now, but back then it was pretty much necessary
lonewolf99 wrote: you ask 50 people what they're into, you're gonna get 50 different answers. It's almost impossible to make a clip that pleases everyone.
and that goes for almost every fetish that has a sub niche.
A good producer makes a list of the sub-niches and then starts catering to them one at a time...not so you can please everyone at the same time....but so that you eventually please everyone over the course of a year!
Which is why yes we still have very inexpensive costume that some people like. doesn't change the fact that the original post made a serious difference.



NOW on to a separate comment.

Should he label himself an expert?
Naw. I don't think so. to be labeled an expert means that he would be able to list off all of the different sub-niches and how to cater to them. If he gave a list of all the sub-niches and how to market to them I would say he's allowed to call himself an expert...but he only hit on a few points.


So you might be asking....
"Why is he defending the official post with so much vigor"?

Well simply put When we started we had many many many flaws and no-one was willing to put a spin on why.
then this post came and it lit up so many dark areas.
it literally made us what we are.
I would hope new producers looked into his words, to have them not just questioned but shot down with no proof seems like shooting yourself in the foot just because your opinion differs from his.

Thats where I am regarding this point.
I defend it because its done good and i would hate for it to be dismantled because one person found it contrary to their opinion.
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I promise when I become an actress/producer....I will do all of these things!! I think my years of "professional" cosplay give me a pretty good idea of what both men AND women are looking for, because ya know...us girls love fetish and porn too
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batgirl1969 wrote:I promise when I become an actress/producer....I will do all of these things!! I think my years of "professional" cosplay give me a pretty good idea of what both men AND women are looking for, because ya know...us girls love fetish and porn too
And when you do decide to take the leap please let us know.
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batgirl1969 wrote:I promise when I become an actress/producer....I will do all of these things!! I think my years of "professional" cosplay give me a pretty good idea of what both men AND women are looking for, because ya know...us girls love fetish and porn too
Do the thing!! \o/ - all a film comprises of is a large cosplay comp skit!

Still aiming to make some US cons at some point - doesn't even have to be fetish, make superheroine short films ftw!! ;-)
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