Gotham Knights TV show [CW]

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Maskripper
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Gotham Knights TV show [CW]

Post by Maskripper »

Three writers of the Batwoman production are developing a "Gotham Knights" TV show!

https://deadline.com/2021/12/gotham-kni ... 234890384/
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Right now I'm careful as we know only little and I am afraid as hell that they will have a Batgirl in a Burnside costume with an eye mask or that "helmet" thingy (aka cowl without a chinstrap).
But it does sound really great to have another TV show that will have masked female vigilantes and villainesses in it!
Already there are speculations that this TV show might be some sort of successor when the Batwoman TV show would end.
If that really is the case it would be good to have some sort of replacement like this new show, and I (and others) would have something to look forward to.
But right now, in the middle of season 3 of Batwoman, there is no news about a 4th season....so far.
Perhaps they will make the 4th season and then Gotham Knights would be the next show after the 4th season has been aired.
Or both shows will run simultaneously at the CW.
Hopefully, there will be news soon.

So folks you can now make your "why does it have to be on the CW?" posts..... ;)
I am looking forward to this show in the meantime....
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Re: Gotham Knights TV show [CW]

Post by tallyho »

I'm more concerned that they are three 'writers' from BW which is one of the worst written shows I've ever come across.
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Re: Gotham Knights TV show [CW]

Post by batgirl1969 »

Maybe it too will have some really great gay and lesbian characters, imagine a villainess that is a lesbian that loves to hate Batgirl and when they fight the sexual tension is obvious, maybe even some light kissing to the masked face of BG!!!
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Re: Gotham Knights TV show [CW]

Post by Femina »

My biggest concern is that it's a CW superhero show.

Those are the WORST.
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Re: Gotham Knights TV show [CW]

Post by Visitor »

With the already bad writers, it's off to a bad start. Still there is a faint hope that after the pilot they get better writers.
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Re: Gotham Knights TV show [CW]

Post by Danorian »

I expect them to work in a different Gotham City from Batwoman, like normal for CW shows. Sorta like how there have been THREE different versions of the Fortress of Solitude, between Smallville, Supergirl, and Superman & Lois. Worse with the SG/SM shows since they should be in the same universe, but have such differing Fortresses. CW can't share stages between shows?
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Re: Gotham Knights TV show [CW]

Post by shevek »

Research, my Maskripping colleague! :)

There are only two things called "Gotham Knights" in the DC product line.

The first one is a comic book series that ran from 2000-2006 and for most of its run, it was written by Devin Grayson, the first female to write an ongoing Batman title. It was about "the exploits of Batman and his extended family, such as Alfred Pennyworth, Batgirl, Nightwing, Robin, Oracle, and Catwoman" and the latter part of the run focused more on Batman's enemies (e.g. Mr Freeze). It was pretty highly acclaimed. I doubt that has much to do with this upcoming TV show or the Deadline article would have mentioned the comic specifically, and Devin Grayson, rather than hearkening back to the old chestnuts Bob Kane and Bill Finger.

The second one is a video game which hasn't come out yet, but will be released in 2022. I'm guessing that's what the show is about, too - it's a tie-in into selling the video game at the same time. The story of the video game is that it "takes place in a period of decline for Gotham City, after Batman's apparent death. Dark Knight's former partners - Nightwing, Batgirl, Robin, and Red Hood - who have gone their separate ways, but must work together once more to restore justice to Gotham and prevent it from descending into chaos. At some point, the heroes will come into conflict with the Court of Owls, a secret criminal society that is as old as Gotham itself, and their legion of brainwashed assassins called Talons, while also investigating Batman's death."

But the video game looks like it presents those four Batman protege characters in their classic comic book appearances.
Batgirl's costume is quite tight and attractive (not the Burnside version, thankfully I think that's come and gone).
Gotham_Knights_Cover.jpg
Gotham_Knights_Cover.jpg (162.24 KiB) Viewed 11052 times
Yet I find it hard to believe that a team as progressive-minded as the Batwoman writers' lineup (considering what they programmed for three seasons on the CW) is going to limit their major characters to the obvious lack of diversity seen above. So I think if they cast for character diversity, and add extra characters to the core four (Spoiler, Cassandra Cain, Batwing, Signal, etc) that bodes well for Batgirl1969's chances of at least seeing some fleeting lesbian action...maybe?

However, there's one line in that Deadline article that throws me off:
"In the wake of Bruce Wayne’s murder, his rebellious adopted son forges an unlikely alliance with the children of Batman’s enemies when they are all framed for killing the Caped Crusader." I'm thinking this means that the four core Batman characters listed above ally with the "children of enemies" against the Court of Owls, but who exactly are these children? I mean, are we going to see Duela Dent, Ethan Cobblepot, or Joker's Daughter? (who isn't really Joker's actual daughter anyway). What other "children of enemies" are there? (I can't think of any.) Or will they just make them up from whole cloth for this series?
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Re: Gotham Knights TV show [CW]

Post by Mr. X »

I'm sure it will be a rollicking thrill ride of magic and wonderment that all will enjoy.
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Re: Gotham Knights TV show [CW]

Post by batgirl1969 »

I agree Shevek with the lineup there certainly will be a lesbian pairing between someone, I just hope Batgirl finds herself in an uncomfortable scenario where she feels bi-curious and let's her inhibitions get the best of her and she gives in to an intense make out session with a lesbian character, adding to the sexual tension as well as the adversarial tensions, like She-Ra and Catra, And now Supergirl is dating Wonder Woman, imagine the bondage sessions those two have!!!!
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Re: Gotham Knights TV show [CW]

Post by shevek »

batgirl1969 wrote: 2 years ago And now Supergirl is dating Wonder Woman, imagine the bondage sessions those two have!!!!
OMG, you weren't just fantasizing, this is really happening.

https://www.polygon.com/2021/12/13/2282 ... -dc-comics

Albeit in an alternate universe which isn't canon..but you can be sure that this is just the latest of several gradual steps (since 2015's Bombshells) in the "long march" taken to advance the Wonder Woman character to a position where she can be officially declared lesbian in the near future in the main DC universe.

It's also interesting to note how this is being planned. The same people who want this to happen are the same types who
intricately analyze "power dynamics" in a world where they consider everything to be political, so they realized that there was really almost no other choice than picking "Supergirl" as Wonder Woman's beau, because anything else would exhibit extreme power imbalance. What were their other choices - maybe Nubia or Maxima? Jessica Cruz? DC just doesn't have any other women at the power level of these two. Anything else would have been "punching down."

This makes it very interesting to think whom they actually *will* pick in the main universe, when it comes down to it, because it seems they have almost no other choice than the real Kara Zor-El. When they do, that will leave *no straight women* at the top power level in the DC universe - a prospect about which I'm sure Batgirl1969 is salivating. And out of the holy "sexy trinity", only one will be straight (Batgirl).

Which brings us back to Gotham Knights - just so it doesn't look like I'm steering this thread too much off topic. In the Gotham Knights video game, there is only one woman amongst those four main Batman-progeny characters - the straight Batgirl, Barbara Gordon. She has never expressed any lesbian feelings in any comic book (much like the Tim Drake situation).

If, as the Deadline article states, there will be the progeny of Batman villains as part of the main cast of the Gotham Knights TV series...then the chances are good that the writers, who have written lesbian relationships into Batwoman for 3 seasons, will give Barbara Gordon at least a passing lesbian fancy with one of the young villainesses in the cast (again, I can only speculate as to whom that will be, since there is a limited palette for them to paint from unless they create new young villains just for the show) for that will-they-won't-they adversarial tension that Batgirl1969 mentions. I am making an educated guess that will happen.

If that is the case, then you can look forward in the near future (within the next five years?) to all three of the DC characters whom you most enjoy seeing in SHIP videos becoming lesbian or bisexual in DC Universe canon. Add Harley and Ivy to that group, and that makes five. So in a sense, it works very well for us in the SHIP forum because the demand for those kinds of girl-on-girl fantasies will increase, and that is a hot prospect.

Does it work for a straight woman who just wants to "see herself" in a powerful and well-known DC comic book character? Not so much. Whom will she have left? Black Canary, Huntress, Starfire, Donna Troy, that's about it. None of them are really at the top echelon that almost anyone would automatically recognize.
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Re: Gotham Knights TV show [CW]

Post by Maskripper »

@shevek:
Yeah, I know about the video game and the old comic series. ;-)
The costume Batgirl has in most of the screenshots is really bad for my taste. Purple and that crappy useless, tiny eye mask..... not my cup of tea.
But on the bright side, I have seen other costumes on her on screenshots for the video game.
Luckily in those games, you practically always have alternative costumes available to unlock or buy.
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Re: Gotham Knights TV show [CW]

Post by Maskripper »

Soooooo, the series is officially ordered!

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv ... 235145368/
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Great news!
I can't wait to see some costumes now.... PLEASE let them have good ones with proper masks!
Hope to get more info on which additional characters will be in this show!
The potential for masked women and unmasking is quite BIG.
Let's hope the masked women here will have plenty of screentime and some "action" ;-)

----


P.S.: On the other hand the CW canceled a huge bunch of shows, so LoT and Batwoman were only the first:
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv ... 235138406/

But well, none of these other shows (except BW) matter to me...
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Re: Gotham Knights TV show [CW]

Post by Mr. X »

Black Lightning also had some nice costumes. I don't think anyone talks about that show here. Also Legends had some nice outfits.
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Re: Gotham Knights TV show [CW]

Post by Maskripper »

Mr. X wrote: 1 year ago Black Lightning also had some nice costumes. I don't think anyone talks about that show here. Also Legends had some nice outfits.
Well, Black Lightning is already finished for a while and others and myself posted about it back in the day....even though it wasn't a very active topic.
It had at least some good scenes with masked women.

Legends barely offered anything for me in terms of costumes and especially masks. And it's a comedy in the first place so there wasn't much heroine peril involved (in costume).
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Re: Gotham Knights TV show [CW]

Post by shevek »

AZ has some fun with the first publicity photo released for Gotham Knights.
Incredibly bland, doesn't really say anything about the characters, who are all more obscure unknowns from the Batman mythos.
(Bluebird. Bluebird's brother. Duela Dent. Carrie Kelley Robin. And an original 'adopted son of Bruce' named Turner Hayes. For some reason)
Hopefully these characters won't all be defending Gotham in street clothes and athletic jackets.
I'm theorizing that they probably couldn't use any of the main characters from the video game because they're already tied up in various HBO projects.

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Re: Gotham Knights TV show [CW]

Post by Maskripper »

I love it.... some folks/trolls see one early teaser poster... and already know everything :lol: (I am talking about the "video")
Yeah, that poster is lame, but that doesn't say anything about anything.
When there is more info and a trailer, then it's time...
When I see such (troll) headlines in the video thumbnail.... I know what to do... #don'tclick
And one quick glance at the other videos of that channel.... :hmmm: :wacko: #fatsarcastictrollmaster
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Re: Gotham Knights TV show [CW]

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Re: Gotham Knights TV show [CW]

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^ What weird aspect ratio is this?
And in 360p? Is it the year 2000 again?

Will re-watch the trailer when there is a better quality available....
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Re: Gotham Knights TV show [CW]

Post by Mr. X »

Maskripper wrote: 1 year ago I love it.... some folks/trolls see one early teaser poster... and already know everything :lol: (I am talking about the "video")
Yeah, that poster is lame, but that doesn't say anything about anything.
When there is more info and a trailer, then it's time...
When I see such (troll) headlines in the video thumbnail.... I know what to do... #don'tclick
And one quick glance at the other videos of that channel.... :hmmm: :wacko: #fatsarcastictrollmaster
Imagine you've been chained in a basement for years, food thrown down to you, living in your own filth, beaten and yelled at relentlessly. Now you get to go to another house where you're now beaten once a week.

Yes strike out after strike out after strike out and seeing the same token characters over and over says to me... not again.

The poster is the best foot forward and this is what they offer? And WHO T-F are these characters? They aren't even main characters. D listers. So are we even getting Nightwing or Red Hood or Tim Drake or Babs Gordon? Apparently not.

Yeah same old same old. Some people have feverishly worked to alienate a huge part of the fanbase. They can be proud they accomplished their goal. Enjoy the tiny numbers and cancellation.

Oh and Maskripper I have a serious question for you. When was ANY TIME in your life you ever got someone to come over to your side by ridiculing them and calling then trolls, whiny, man children, phobic, hater etc... or whatever you're implying. If someone doesn't like this stuff they are DOUBLY not going to like it when you try to shame them into it.
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Re: Gotham Knights TV show [CW]

Post by Visitor »

It's like they are hoping the Batman name will bring in viewers when you know he was killed in the first episode and these idiots are the fall guys. The smartest one called shotgun first before getting into a tiny car.

Another teen angst CW show with a superhero theme.
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Re: Gotham Knights TV show [CW]

Post by Maskripper »

@Mr. X: I am not trying to convince any troll of starting to like something. That won't work as they already decided to hate it.
After all, that is their life: Spreading as much hate as they possibly can in their unhappy troll life.
Trolls are not humans, they are trolls.... hopeless, lost creatures.
that guy is the perfect example: Seems like nearly every video of his is about something he hates, judging from the title.
And that is the perfect example of such a creature.
-

Back to topic:
Still no trailer out there in decent picture quality.
Who gave the OK that it would be released like that?
And when it starts to get interesting in the ....pretty long trailer.... it's already over.
I wanna see some costumes and masked women! Pretty odd to show such a long trailer without any costumes.... when you are making a superhero show.
Well, as the show isn't even coming out this year... there is a lot of patience needed anyhow.
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Re: Gotham Knights TV show [CW]

Post by ivandobsky »

Looks like a teenage vampire thing. Variety is the spice of life i guess.
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Re: Gotham Knights TV show [CW]

Post by Nykron »

Maskripper wrote: 1 year ago ^ What weird aspect ratio is this?
And in 360p? Is it the year 2000 again?

Will re-watch the trailer when there is a better quality available....
Here you go.
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Re: Gotham Knights TV show [CW]

Post by Maskripper »

Hmh, as if Spoiler-TV wants their audience to hate it with their crap release :hmmm:
But ok, the content doesn't get much better in 1080p.
A little odd that they call it "season trailer" as these are only scenes from the pilot episode ...as that was the only one they filmed so far to my knowledge.
Still hoping to see (at least) Spoiler in this one in a solid costume.
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Re: Gotham Knights TV show [CW]

Post by Mr. X »

Maskripper wrote: 1 year ago That won't work as they already decided to hate it.
Stop that. Just stop that. They are not UP AND BEING HATERS for no reason

T-R-A-C-K R-E-C-O-R-D

Just stop with accusing everyone who disagrees as being phobic or hater or nazi or whatever. There is no magical reason these people are dubious of the show. Its the track record of being burned and they just got presented with a trailer showing yet another box of crayons of token token token token characters that aren't even Batman characters.

You say we should give it a chance and we can't judge it based on the best foot forward already offered.

Ok offer ONE good example that we SHOULD watch it. One. What ONE quality in the trailer or the pic says "come watch this show its going to be great" One? One thing? You say its going to be great... ok sell that, what is going to be great about it.

So just stop. Nobody is buying your judgement or your BS trolling "hater" labels.
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Re: Gotham Knights TV show [CW]

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Easy, easy.... you are misinterpreting/misreading a lot here about what I said or what you think that I have said.
I was especially talking about that one guy with his troll channel here (as a "video" from him was posted in this topic)
Of course not everyone who hates something is a troll, yeah I agree....and I NEVER said that (and also NEVER labeled somebody nazi, not on this forum at least).
But that guy is a picture-perfect troll master ...as his channel is about what he hates, which is quite a lot.

I also never said that this show WILL be good. I have said it CAN be good.
So, the trailer hasn't impressed me as you can read above.
I am hoping that this show can deliver some heroines and villainesses in good costumes and some masks.
That's all. Then I'm already happy.... even if the show doesn't have to offer much else.
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And regarding your last sentence: Speak for yourself, not for everyone.
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Re: Gotham Knights TV show [CW]

Post by Visitor »

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/got ... 23557.html

The show description is better than the promo video in at least we know who the characters are. Still not a great plot.
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Re: Gotham Knights TV show [CW]

Post by Mr. X »

Maskripper wrote: 1 year ago Easy, easy.... you are misinterpreting/misreading
Ok we'll call it good.
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Re: Gotham Knights TV show [CW]

Post by Dazzle1 »

So the CW instead of Batman disapering is going to have him killed off

And have more teen/twenty characters we are going to like.

Instead of Nightwing and/or Batgirl. Generally ack as the two most important members of the Bat family after Bruce himself
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Re: Gotham Knights TV show [CW]

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Dazzle1 wrote: 1 year ago So the CW instead of Batman disapering is going to have him killed off

And have more teen/twenty characters we are going to like.

Instead of Nightwing and/or Batgirl. Generally ack as the two most important members of the Bat family after Bruce himself
As I mentioned, the characters of Dick Grayson and Barbara Gordon are already on TV. Both are in 'Titans' (as are Red Hood, and the Jason Todd and Tim Drake versions of Robin) and HBO is also still working on a Batgirl movie.

No idea why they didn't use Damian Wayne, though, rather than creating yet another randomly original character who is the adopted "son" of the deceased Batman. Anchoring the series with Damian would have made a lot of sense. Maybe they didn't because that would have had to tie him to the Huntress? (whose less-than-appealing version is still alive for future possible Birds of Prey outings).

No concrete idea why, really. The only Robin in this series is Carrie Kelley.
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Re: Gotham Knights TV show [CW]

Post by Mr. X »

Could be a license issue. Licenses are expensive. The supergirl license was a good part of the show budget.
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Re: Gotham Knights TV show [CW]

Post by Heroine Addict »

During this century, live action Batman-related TV shows have consisted of:

Birds of Prey - A show about the Bat Family of a missing/retired Bruce Wayne.
Gotham - A show about various Batman characters before Bruce became Batman.
Powerless - A camp comedy show about the employees of Bruce Wayne's cousin.
Pennyworth - A show about young Alfred before he became the Wayne butler.
Batwoman - Another show about the Bat Family of a missing/retired Bruce Wayne.
Titans - Yet another show about the Bat Family of a mostly absent/retired Bruce Wayne.
Gotham Knights - And here's another fucking show about the Bat Family of a dead Bruce Wayne.

These Not Batman shows are getting ridiculous. If WB is so protective of allowing a proper depiction of Batman, surely they could give some competent producers a decent budget to make a premium Batman show on HBO Max?
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Re: Gotham Knights TV show [CW]

Post by Mr. X »

Heroine Addict wrote: 1 year ago During this century, live action Batman-related TV shows have consisted of:

Birds of Prey - A show about the Bat Family of a missing/retired Bruce Wayne.
Gotham - A show about various Batman characters before Bruce became Batman.
Powerless - A camp comedy show about the employees of Bruce Wayne's cousin.
Pennyworth - A show about young Alfred before he became the Wayne butler.
Batwoman - Another show about the Bat Family of a missing/retired Bruce Wayne.
Titans - Yet another show about the Bat Family of a mostly absent/retired Bruce Wayne.
Gotham Knights - And here's another fucking show about the Bat Family of a dead Bruce Wayne.

These Not Batman shows are getting ridiculous. If WB is so protective of allowing a proper depiction of Batman, surely they could give some competent producers a decent budget to make a premium Batman show on HBO Max?
My guess is the actual license to use Batman, especially since the last movie was put out, is so outrageous its probably double to quadruple the budgets of these shows. I know Supergirl was at least the budget of the show. So yes they are going to use the D-Lister characters or derivatives.

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Re: Gotham Knights TV show [CW]

Post by Visitor »

It's less the license fee and WB wants to save Batman for more profitable movies. After all Superman didn't appear as more than a back lit blurred figure in Supergirl TV show until after a few seasons. They could do it if they thought the money was there like Disney does with Marvel.

Batman's next appearances are in the Flash and Batgirl movies as played by Michael Keaton.
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Re: Gotham Knights TV show [CW]

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Visitor wrote: 1 year ago It's less the license fee and WB wants to save Batman for more profitable movies. After all Superman didn't appear as more than a back lit blurred figure in Supergirl TV show until after a eew seasons. They could do it if they thought the money was there like Disney does with Marvel.

Batman's next appearances are in the Flash and Batgirl movies as played by Michael Keaton.
Yeah they have plans for their one profitable character so they're not going to let a TV show wreck it.
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Re: Gotham Knights TV show [CW]

Post by Visitor »

Well they released the pilot episode and it could have been better. Harvey Dent (pre-Two-Face) and the Court of Owls are the only core plot points from the comics. New or minor characters so they won't hurt the movie franchise.

Back to dark sets and quick cuts for most action sequences. If it doesn't get better, it won't make season 2.
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Re: Gotham Knights TV show [CW]

Post by Maskripper »

Will check out the first episode today.
I don't expect much from the show. My hope is that these folks will get into costumes at some point.
And that was hinted by one of the producers lately that the characters figure out that it is kind of problematic to become crime-fighting vigilantes and show their faces while doing that. Quite odd that they need to figure that out...but ok.
So, my hopes of seeing action scenes with masked women are more than enough to get me interested...
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Bronson881
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Re: Gotham Knights TV show [CW]

Post by Bronson881 »

I liked it so far and look forward to future episodes.
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Re: Gotham Knights TV show [CW]

Post by Maskripper »

So, watched the first episode.
It was solid, nothing great, but at least more interesting than the latest Flash (with the exception of the Red Death episodes) or Superman & Lois seasons.
Looking forward to seeing how they develop the storyline with all these characters now in hiding and their upcoming clash against the Cout of Owls.
So, far there were practically no costumes and masks involved.... with the exception of this "mask":

Image

Funny how she immediately self-unmasks after she had rescued the others. They really have a self-unmasking fetish lately on TV. :-(
But...as I mentioned in my post above... there is hope on the horizon as one of the producers lately hinted that these young vigilantes will realize that they can't run around fighting crime without a mask after a while (I wonder why they don't know that from the start :lol:).
So, I hope these guys will get into costumes and masks after some episodes!
Especially hope that Stephanie Brown will mask herself ;-)

As the trailer already suggests, Bruce Wayne gets murdered right at the start of this show.
Also, I think he committed suicide after he was equipped with the worst Batman mask in movie/TV history: ;-)
Image
WTF is that thing?
No chin strap, no material on the back of the head? A mild breeze might unmask him.
So, hopefully, the budget for masks is solid, after they only spend 10 bucks on this Batman "mask".
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Re: Gotham Knights TV show [CW]

Post by Mr. X »

Maskripper wrote: 1 year ago WTF is that thing?
No chin strap, no material on the back of the head? A mild breeze might unmask him.
So, hopefully, the budget for masks is solid, after they only spend 10 bucks on this Batman "mask".
Its the best the transient mall halloween store has to offer. Only their finest.
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Re: Gotham Knights TV show [CW]

Post by tallyho »

Mr. X wrote: 1 year ago
Maskripper wrote: 1 year ago WTF is that thing?
No chin strap, no material on the back of the head? A mild breeze might unmask him.
So, hopefully, the budget for masks is solid, after they only spend 10 bucks on this Batman "mask".
Its the best the transient mall halloween store has to offer. Only their finest.
All the money went on lighting the shelf it's on for no apparent reason
I reckon they picked the mask up cheap on November 1st
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Mr. X
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Re: Gotham Knights TV show [CW]

Post by Mr. X »

tallyho wrote: 1 year ago
Mr. X wrote: 1 year ago
Maskripper wrote: 1 year ago WTF is that thing?
No chin strap, no material on the back of the head? A mild breeze might unmask him.
So, hopefully, the budget for masks is solid, after they only spend 10 bucks on this Batman "mask".
Its the best the transient mall halloween store has to offer. Only their finest.
All the money went on lighting the shelf it's on for no apparent reason
I reckon they picked the mask up cheap on November 1st
Yeah the best Home Depot has to offer though I would think they have a lot of stuff left over from the Flash. Someone mentioned the bat computer is just some laptops from Best Buy sitting on a folding table from Office Max.
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Re: Gotham Knights TV show [CW]

Post by sneakly »

The picture of the cowl makes it look like he would be the cross eyed crusader…
Image
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Re: Gotham Knights TV show [CW]

Post by Bronson881 »

What did you guys think of the Batcave? Its big that's for sure and I love the secret passage way and the stairs leading to the Batcave itself. I researched it and it would cost about 6 million dollars to build a Batcave and that's not including the electricity to run the computer and other gadgets he would have had to have and of course paying the workers and who would be building it.

I agree the masks are not what we would expect but I am so far liking this show.
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Re: Gotham Knights TV show [CW]

Post by joejanus »

I ignored this show until last week. Now I've seen the first 10 episodes, and I recommend it..., except it really has nothing to do with this website's focus. The only costumes so far are the aforementioned Batman cowl which is only seen askew on the dead Bruce Wayne, and the one for Robin, which I would hardly call a costume.

I do like the plots and the character growth and interaction. There's even a doomed lesbian love interest with Harper having a love-hate relationship with a pre-Batgirl Stephanie Brown. As her brother says, "You only fall for himbos or straight girls." They, of course, throw in a 'don't blink or you'll miss it' black lesbian family, and a few appearances by Veronica Cartwright as a crazy, homicidal nursing home resident.

They've changed Harvey Dent's backstory to that of a multiple personality stemming from his abused childhood with an evil assist from the court of owls. I also like how the team formation is a huge part of the dynamic as the Knights are accidentally forced together by circumstance.

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