Supergirl: Woman Of Tomorrow (DCU film in development)

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Mlod
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That does sound interesting, sounds like it'll differentiate from her cousin a lot more at least.
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I just read the news. This is awesome!!!

As long as they find an actress who actually looks like Supergirl and not same woke race switch garbage

This film has potential to be amazing
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Feels about 20/80 that they use Sasha Calle from the Flash movie as the new SG but if she's not a blonde going forward, I'm going to be upset. They'll probably recast the role, imho. Since the SG in the Flash movie is from a different universe. Guess we'll have to wait and see if they send out casting notices a year from now or whenever the script gets done.
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I'm just crossing my fingers that they do the story AND the costume right. TV Supergirl had a great actress and got the costume just about right (until it wasn't), then the writing just went downhill really, really fast.
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If they go by the costume used in the comics SG: Woman of Tomorrow we should be in for a treat. I'm not all that familiar with that series but it's a quite a bit darker character over the course of the series I believe. A take no prisoners sort of gal who does have limits on her aggression I think.
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DC does need a revamp. Too many people with powers and too many weird powers. While Doom Patrol was interesting powers were all over the place, nothing made sense and it seemed like an acid trip. Nothing was consistent. Wonder Woman beating a God but getting kicked around by Stepenwolf. The whole thing became a shambles.
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A new Supergirl movie is.... nice.
But I don't think they will go again with a sexy skirt, boots, and pantyhose combo like in the early season of the TV show.
It might become a good movie though, we will see.

I am much more frustrated that there isn't any mention of a masked heroine or villainess in these plans.
At least not in the lead role.
Hopefully, a Batgirl, Catwoman, Batwoman or so may show up in these.
And yeah, too many heroes with powers....
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Here's James Gunn's original announcement:



The Superwoman details are about the 4:20 mark.

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I wish this thread had been about *all* the announced projects that Gunn laid out, not just Supergirl. See below.

Don't know how this Woman of Tomorrow film is going to go. Firstly, did you notice the title isn't even original? There's already a Superman animated movie from only two years ago called "Man of Tomorrow". If the purpose is to bring Supergirl out from the shadow of Superman (which I don't think is even necessary: she had her own TV show, and it wasn't Superman who overshadowed her, but the overly large box-checking cast), then you don't do that by giving the movie a ripoff title. You go original, with something like "Supergirl: Adventure In Space" or "Supergirl: Conquering Fear", or something of that nature.

Secondly, I am probably never going to read the "Woman of Tomorrow" series because it's Tom King who turned Batman into a wimp. But from what I understand, the purpose of that series was to bring Supergirl into her own, out from the shadow of the Superman books (again, this was unnecessary, as not only did she have her own TV show, but also several solo title runs going back to the 70s, with her own enemies apart from those of Superman. Some of them were quite sexy, like Blackstarr, Psi, and Nightflame. Or Rose and Thorn, dammit.) Supergirl steps into her own by helping a little girl save her faraway planet, with Krypto tagging along, and I guess there's a bunch of dark themes and violence. The costume is nice: blue leotard, red skirt, high red boots.

But I just have to say I'm not a fan of the art of Bilquis Evely - she's from Brazil, but there's a certain abstract angularity to her art, a bit of psychedelia, and a neutering of the sexiness of the character. I understand that DC wanted to go for something different, not to mention hire a Latina, but the result is just too...European, and not enough like American comic art. All success to Bilquis, though, it's just not my bag.

Finally, this just doesn't seem to be the proper plot for the first Supergirl solo film. Yes, she's been long ago introduced in the TV show, and yes, Sasha Calle will be playing a supporting role in the Flash, so that will be an introduction in the same way WW debuted in BVS. But I would think that before ejecting this character far out into space where she can have random Guardians of the Galaxy-type cosmic adventures, there should first be a movie about her life on Earth, to get the zoomers and millennials to identify with her backstory: crashed on the planet, grew up with the Danvers, went to college, worked for Catco, had some romances, whatever. She needs to be established as a defender of Earth before she becomes Barbarella. If they don't put a bunch of that backstory content into a movie, they're making a mistake.

So I'll have to say I'm all around skeptical about how a Supergirl movie will land, at this point.

As for the rest of the roster, here are the three things I'm most excited about:

1) The Authority. Of course, they're going to lean heavily on the fascism and abuse of power aspects. It'll be interesting to see if they make one of the Authority members into the eventual villain (if that happens, it's probably Hawksmoor) or if they have to fight some external threat like a fascist dictator or a Darkseid type. They'll play up the Midnighter/Apollo vibe (maybe spin off their own adventures to the Bravo Network?).

The character I'm most excited about Angela Spica, The Engineer (I've taken some influence from her for the Heroineburgh characters X-Machina and Cybrina). She is by far the sexiest female member of the team, so we'll have to see how tight that silver suit can be. It'd be great to see that outfit on someone of the caliber of a Megan Fox or Angelina Jolie. Also very interesting will be the casting of Jenny Sparks, a cute feisty British blonde, maybe a Saoirse Ronan or Emma Watson type?

I'm calling it: if they use the Shaman, it'll be the second Arabic one. They might also go for Rainmaker, who joined the team from Gen13, since that would break new diversity ground as the first Native American superhero onscreen for DC. (gotta keep up with Echo at Marvel)

I'm also hoping they use some Warren Ellis story material for The Authority movie. He was unduly mobbed, and this would be a way to bring him back into the swing of things.

2) Lanterns. If they have both Hal Jordan and John Stewart, they have everything they need for the leads. Let's see some sexy Star Sapphire and her Zamarons, some blue Guardians, some Lanterns of other ring colors, and some lovely lady Lanterns whether it be Jessica Cruz, Katma Tui, Arisia or Soranik. The lore is hella deep. If Hal turns evil as Parallax, so be it. And don't forget Kilowog and Ch'p as comic relief, ya poozers!

2) Booster Gold. I'm sad that this won't be the bwa-ha-ha buddy movie with the Ted Kord Blue Beetle that we all wanted since the 90s.
Blue Beetle looks like it's going to be a separate thing, and he's Hispanic now, don'tcha know.
But I'm hoping they'll remain true to the core appearance and personality of the Booster character, because he's always such a fun time that they've never been able to "deconstruct" him.

OK, let's sit back and see what Gunn comes up with.
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"Now"? Jaime Reyes has been the Blue Beetle since 2006.
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They’re making a live action Authority? I hope they have Rush and I hope she’s in this exact costume:

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Damselbinder wrote:
1 year ago
"Now"? Jaime Reyes has been the Blue Beetle since 2006.
Yes, so doesn't that include "now"? :)

Ted was the Beetle from 1966-2006. That's a pretty long time, and when most people think of Blue Beetle, they still think of either the Charlton
adventures or the Keith Giffen era.

Then he died. Now he's back alive since Rebirth as an industrialist, and is known as the 'former' Blue Beetle.
So, Ted is still around. I'm hoping that he plays some kind of role in *both* the Beetle *and* Booster movies.
For Jaime, he could be the mentor/tech supplier. For Booster, he could be the humor buddy/financier.
PartsUnknown wrote:
1 year ago
They’re making a live action Authority? I hope they have Rush and I hope she’s in this exact costume:
Image
Swift's replacement Rush, and Engineer's replacement Machine, were both killed within six issues of an Authority run.
So it's unlikely that either of them would be in the movie.
What's more likely is their attributes might remain - for example, Swift could be Asian, Canadian *and* lesbian in one fell swoop.
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I know Rush dies, I’d love to see that scene in live action. Some producer should make a costume based on that.
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shevek wrote:
1 year ago
Damselbinder wrote:
1 year ago
"Now"? Jaime Reyes has been the Blue Beetle since 2006.
Yes, so doesn't that include "now"? :)

Ted was the Beetle from 1966-2006. That's a pretty long time, and when most people think of Blue Beetle, they still think of either the Charlton
adventures or the Keith Giffen era.

Then he died. Now he's back alive since Rebirth as an industrialist, and is known as the 'former' Blue Beetle.
So, Ted is still around. I'm hoping that he plays some kind of role in *both* the Beetle *and* Booster movies.
For Jaime, he could be the mentor/tech supplier. For Booster, he could be the humor buddy/financier.
PartsUnknown wrote:
1 year ago
They’re making a live action Authority? I hope they have Rush and I hope she’s in this exact costume:
Image
Swift's replacement Rush, and Engineer's replacement Machine, were both killed within six issues of an Authority run.
So it's unlikely that either of them would be in the movie.
What's more likely is their attributes might remain - for example, Swift could be Asian, Canadian *and* lesbian in one fell swoop.
I fucking bet you anything that most people these days would think of Jaime Reyes - and even if that WASN'T true he's been prominently featured in adaptations and games and shit for years, and is a much-beloved character by... pretty much everyone?

I tell you what, if you say 'most people' think of those versions of Blue Beetle rather than Jaime, prove it.
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Damselbinder wrote:
1 year ago

I fucking bet you anything that most people these days would think of Jaime Reyes - and even if that WASN'T true he's been prominently featured in adaptations and games and shit for years, and is a much-beloved character by... pretty much everyone?

I tell you what, if you say 'most people' think of those versions of Blue Beetle rather than Jaime, prove it.
I agree. The Jaime Reyes version is even in the Unjustice 2 game. The Ted Cord Blue Beetle is obscure now.
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OK Damselbinder: I'll have to move the goalposts, then, and say that while in popular culture as a whole Jaime Reyes is known as Blue Beetle due to recent adaptations and video games (to be honest, I was largely unaware of this since I don't play video games), I'm still pretty sure that Ted Kord is better known among the comic-book set (the collectors from the 80s and 90s) and that there are no "classic Jaime Reyes runs" they would be referring to. So I'll change it to "most comic book people" which of course, vastly isn't "most people."

I won't die on that hill, but I could probably endure survivable battle wounds. You and Mr. X are correct, otherwise.

Anyhow, all of that surely explains why there are two Beetle & Booster movies instead of them being combined into one buddy film.

Also, Parts Unknown: You liked the idea of Midnighter stabbing Rush in the head, and Apollo roasting Machine with his sun blasts?
And you want to see it in a movie? OK, but that does seem a lot more likely to happen in a streaming show, a la The Boys or Invincible.
I do struggle to see how an Authority movie won't be R-rated, though.

One part I do like from that Authority run you mentioned is when the seven nations unite to go up against Hawksmoor, once the intent of The Authority is clear to take governments down rather than just superpowered villains. That could make for a very interesting plot where (much like Black Adam) you're not entirely sure who the 'real' bad guys are, but you wind up rooting for the main character anyway because the movie is named after him.
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I think Supergirl: Woman of Tomorrow is a great little series.
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shevek wrote:
1 year ago
OK Damselbinder: I'll have to move the goalposts, then, and say that while in popular culture as a whole Jaime Reyes is known as Blue Beetle due to recent adaptations and video games (to be honest, I was largely unaware of this since I don't play video games), I'm still pretty sure that Ted Kord is better known among the comic-book set (the collectors from the 80s and 90s) and that there are no "classic Jaime Reyes runs" they would be referring to. So I'll change it to "most comic book people" which of course, vastly isn't "most people."

I won't die on that hill, but I could probably endure survivable battle wounds. You and Mr. X are correct, otherwise.

Anyhow, all of that surely explains why there are two Beetle & Booster movies instead of them being combined into one buddy film.

Also, Parts Unknown: You liked the idea of Midnighter stabbing Rush in the head, and Apollo roasting Machine with his sun blasts?
And you want to see it in a movie? OK, but that does seem a lot more likely to happen in a streaming show, a la The Boys or Invincible.
I do struggle to see how an Authority movie won't be R-rated, though.

One part I do like from that Authority run you mentioned is when the seven nations unite to go up against Hawksmoor, once the intent of The Authority is clear to take governments down rather than just superpowered villains. That could make for a very interesting plot where (much like Black Adam) you're not entirely sure who the 'real' bad guys are, but you wind up rooting for the main character anyway because the movie is named after him.
No classic Reyes runs? Are you kidding me? The run of his first series (the first Blue Beetle solo book in a LONG time, Ted Kord included) is an absolute killer. I submit that most comic book people see Blue Beetle precisely as perhaps the greatest legacy character, whose three incarnations (Garrett, Kord, and Reyes) are unique in being pretty much equally cool, and in having a great sense of legacy between all three.

THAT is the only argument against starting with Reyes that I'll listen to: that part of what made him cool is that he was a fantastic legacy character, and they're jumping the gun a bit by not starting with Garrett and letting that legacy build up.
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Damselbinder wrote:
1 year ago
I submit that most comic book people see Blue Beetle precisely as perhaps the greatest legacy character, whose three incarnations (Garrett, Kord, and Reyes) are unique in being pretty much equally cool, and in having a great sense of legacy between all three.
THAT is the only argument against starting with Reyes that I'll listen to: that part of what made him cool is that he was a fantastic legacy character, and they're jumping the gun a bit by not starting with Garrett and letting that legacy build up.
Ok, then perhaps we can agree on that. It would be incredibly interesting if Dan, Ted and Jaime all ended up in the same film, or series of films, or TV show, especially if it involved flashback to different time periods.

But that's not the end of the legacy, especially since this a forum about superheroines.

Dan's granddaughter, Danni Garrett, has also been realized as "Beetle Girl" by a small indie company called Lucky Comics. Apparently she's somehow public domain so this is allowed (and so is Dan Garrett - he was in one of the issues of Dynamite's Project Superpowers, which features entirely public domain Golden Age heroes drawn in a modern style). Danni wears a great sexy tight costume which is very much in a Golden Age style. And she crossed over with the heroine Versema in the indie comic Punchline #3 (Antarctic Press), I have that book.

And hey, if you really want to somehow throw in Janice Larson (the lady Beetle who is one of the Superior Foes of Spider-Man), you can put her in, too. :) [yeah, I know that's Marvel, I was j/k]

But meanwhile, imagine the possibilities of a SHIP video with this Beetle Girl character, Danni Garrett. So overconfident and ready to be broken!
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I really don't give two bits about the Blue Bug, I am worried they are going to F'up Supergirl again. They did a great job of casting in Helen Slater and Supergirl's 'character' but the story was lacking. From what little I have seen they are going to make Supergirl something she is not. I am so hoping they keep what she is to me; a little naive, smart, caring and beautiful young woman. If they don't follow what has been her character for decades, then I believe the movie will be another disaster.
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Oh, mark my words, Hollywood writers and directors are motivated to do whatever they can to F up Supergirl for you. She's a prime target for subversion, just like Charlie's Angels or James Bond. Sasha Calle already doesn't look anything like her anyway. It's just a question of whether Gunn and Safran will allow that to happen unchecked. Should be interesting to follow that news.

I read Supergirl: Woman of Tomorrow. Or rather, I read the first six issues, which were decompressed all to hell, and then I just gave up,
It's a space adventure, with the little girl and Supergirl hopping nearly endlessly from world to world, so it's like Barbarella but without anything sexy. And I mention that because Bilquis Evely's art isn't *bad* - it's quite impressive, and would work fine for a psychedelic cosmic trip printed in some European comic. She's really good at drawing spaceships and aliens and otherworldly landscapes. Her monstrous dinosaurs are fantastic.
But it doesn't look much like an American superhero comic, and she's definitely not into making Supergirl look classically attractive - for example, the hair takes these weird 'angles' that you just wouldn't see in regular comic book art, and the hourglass shape is completely gone.

They were trying something different with that series, and that's fine if you like that approach. I don't think it made a boatload of fans, though. Plus, the writing by Tom King is excruciatingly flowery and overdone - nothing is said in one sentence that doesn't get stretched out to three. Comic book characters from other planets don't need to wax eloquently Shakesperean. There are as least as many people staying away from books written by Tom King as there are fanboys of his, and possibly more.
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The thing about sexy in comics is does it really sell? Batman appears to be the top seller or at least it used to. If sexy sold I would imagine the top sellers would all be female characters. And Cho probably costs a lot more money to employ than some other artist just to get some sexiness.

So I'm torn on the sexiness thing. Why bother if it doesn't sell. Even Rippa-verse and Cyberfrog don't toss in a lot of sexiness. Heck AC Comics was full of sexy babes and Bill Black didn't make much money.
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Mr. X wrote:
1 year ago
The thing about sexy in comics is does it really sell? Batman appears to be the top seller or at least it used to. If sexy sold I would imagine the top sellers would all be female characters. And Cho probably costs a lot more money to employ than some other artist just to get some sexiness.

So I'm torn on the sexiness thing. Why bother if it doesn't sell. Even Rippa-verse and Cyberfrog don't toss in a lot of sexiness. Heck AC Comics was full of sexy babes and Bill Black didn't make much money.
A bunch of other books which *orbit* the same universe as Rippa and EVS *do* make things sexy, such as Gemshock (hell, there was even an official 'swimsuit issue' from that scene by the Zaid Bros), and Rippa and EVS themselves make sure the Yaira and Heather characters are hella hot, but that's not the point. (And sure, Frank Cho costs more, but I don't think he exactly made a mint from Fight Girls on AWA last year. You don't need Frank Cho - all you need is someone who draws in the classical American comic style, as opposed to some other approach.)

I listed the lack of Supergirl's classical attractiveness as only *one* of several reasons people might be turned away from the book. The unusual space-trek setting, the neo-psychedelic European-style art, the lackadaisical decompression, and the overly flowery prose (to cover up the lack of anything happening, mostly) are just as prominent reasons why it would be a 'niche' book, if not more so. What's just as off-putting (just for me) is that there is indeed *peril* in one of the issues (several pages of Supergirl held in chains by pirates) but the angles are terrible and the whole thing looks too weird to be a classical version of what comic book peril actually is.

It actually reminds me a lot of the kind of books one saw during the 'Second Image Explosion' in 2012-2014: arty-ness, non-superheroism, and sci-fi exotica a la Saga, Low, Sex, Black Science, etc. In other words, it has an 'Euro/indie' feel to it. For Mobius fans, that's a great thing. If DC wants to sell a lot more than, say, 25,000 copies, not so much. (For example, S:WOT #4 sold 26,000 units, according to Comichron, but that's a rough estimate of what was *sold to shops*, not what ended up in customers' hands, which could be as low as half of that, while the rest sit in dollar comic bins for years.)
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Oh I agree the developers are avoiding the classic kink elements. Maybe they got replaced with new kink elements but I'm not seeing those. I think comics in general have been reduced to copyright holders. I'm glad the indie guys are bypassing the big houses. Don't need Diamond anymore when you have online sales.
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Sex sells to a point, and only to a point. It doesn't sell in the grand open market plaza, it sells 'quietly' in the red light district... and always has, everywhere, in every medium... In America at least.

If you live in a country which is majorly ashamed of sexuality and is primarily growing into a state with laws implemented by religious zealots whose religion considers any notable mention of sexual conduct out in the open to be an actual SIN against 'God', then gradually your ability to sell sexual content dries up.

Stop burning books, stop bitching and moaning about what's woke or isn't woke enough, stop shaming folks whose sexuality ain't in line with your own, or whose idea of sexuality doesn't interest you. If you Let people be who they are then gradually (VERY FUCKING GRADUALLY!) when the country is no longer ashamed of sexuality the corners of sexuality you are interested in will start to flourish. (The Royale 'you' not people in the topic)

It's an all or nothing game. Either all of its okay, or none of it is... and so long as we basically just let the Christians run our government and fuck with our constitutional rights (Separation of church and state my ass) it's never going to change.

...

I mean it never IS going to change... up there is the working cog 'parts' of what could make it change, but it's also impossible to do because human beings are all a chaotic mess of 'but I want MY thing and nobody else to have their thing!' so... it's impossible. We get what drizzles leak out around the seals.
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Femina wrote:
1 year ago
Either all of its okay, or none of it is... and so long as we basically just let the Christians run our government and fuck with our constitutional rights (Separation of church and state my ass) it's never going to change.
Are you still stuck in 1980?

We've had a progressive nation for the last 35 years. I'd put it farther to 50 years. Progressives run education, health care, TV, movies, comics, deep state, most corporate culture... there's no moral majority.

This is the problem... a fight that died in 1980 and a bunch of antiquated dinosaurs still trying to shock grandpa at the thanksgiving dinner. There is no animal house vs dean wormer. Progressives pretty much have controlled everything. Also its heterosexuality that's demonized and called "toxic". Remember the bitching about that sexy Spider Woman cover?


There are far far more busy body Anita Sarkesians blocking sexy material vs any Jack Thompsons. It is NOT the moral majority pressuring comics to get rid of hetero-sexy women... that's all on progressives.
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Mr. X wrote:
1 year ago
Femina wrote:
1 year ago
Either all of its okay, or none of it is... and so long as we basically just let the Christians run our government and fuck with our constitutional rights (Separation of church and state my ass) it's never going to change.
Are you still stuck in 1980?

We've had a progressive nation for the last 35 years. I'd put it farther to 50 years. Progressives run education, health care, TV, movies, comics, deep state, most corporate culture... there's no moral majority.

This is the problem... a fight that died in 1980 and a bunch of antiquated dinosaurs still trying to shock grandpa at the thanksgiving dinner. There is no animal house vs dean wormer. Progressives pretty much have controlled everything. Also its heterosexuality that's demonized and called "toxic". Remember the bitching about that sexy Spider Woman cover?


There are far far more busy body Anita Sarkesians blocking sexy material vs any Jack Thompsons. It is NOT the moral majority pressuring comics to get rid of hetero-sexy women... that's all on progressives.
Progressivism is loud, and occasionally obnoxious, but it has proven largely ineffectual toward pushing forth any realistic legislation, social behaviors perhaps but not any serious legislation... or in other words, bitching about sexy Spider Woman cover's resulted in exactly Zero laws to prevent future covers.

On the other hand we've given Christianity the means and power to prescribe that women should be required to complete the pregnancies of rape babies in pockets all over the country with the next step being an attempt to try to stop us being allowed to take contraceptives of any kind. Half our politicians these days nakedly proport the tenants of their faith as a massive driving force for how they push for legislation. Christianity is, in other words, forcing its doctrines upon everyone else precisely as the separation of church and state was intended to prevent.

I'll give you that elements of progressivism (Some very large ones even) are absolutely as prudish as Christians for sure and definitively add social pressure to this 'red light only' situation over here in the states and countries like it... but progressivism is a far less unified front than religion is. Half of progressives find themselves at war with other progressives over the things they are progressive about and tear each other apart since some progressives are absolutely 'free love' in behavior and belief. Religion on the other hand, has recently managed to attack the actual constitution and win.


.................... This has become far more of a political interaction than I really intended and it is muchly my own fault. Sorry I won't press further on this. Feel free to just ignore me or not as you like and consider the rest of this post the stuff I honestly actually wanna talk about instead.

So shorthand.... All I really wanted to say is that America is FAR to prudish for sex to sell in volume... thus I concur with your opinion that Sex does not, in fact, 'sell'.

I raise you one higher, America's relationship with shoving sex behind closed doors is SO successful, we don't feel Obligated to HAVE to pay for it, and thus the enormity of 'freemium' porn backlog and piracy is indicative of our complete disassociation with the act of even having to 'consume' porn as something American and is instead something we feel we are simply 'owed' in the red light of our own free time.
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Issue 7 of Supergirl: Woman of Tomorrow captures the absolute essence of superheroine peril, and it does it with great storytelling and unique and gripping artwork. From the cover, Supergirl alone and tiny in the face of a massive star ship of killers, to the assumption of her victory in the writing, to her devastating defeat and capture, the book consistently gets it right. The prose and the art are both unlike anything I've seen before. That, combined with such a perfectly executed battle just warmed the cockles of my SHIP heart. It is essentially heroine peril as high art, and it really works for me.

If DC actually attempts to make a live action movie of this story it will be a huge undertaking. Probably too ambitious. But if they do, and they find a way to recreate the tone and heart of the book seven battle, that will be a groundbreaking moment in superhero films.
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Femina wrote:
1 year ago
I raise you one higher, America's relationship with shoving sex behind closed doors is SO successful, we don't feel Obligated to HAVE to pay for it, and thus the enormity of 'freemium' porn backlog and piracy is indicative of our complete disassociation with the act of even having to 'consume' porn as something American and is instead something we feel we are simply 'owed' in the red light of our own free time.
How does that make sense? If porn is FREE its MORE liberated, not stuffed behind a door. Is that a typo?
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Mr. X wrote:
1 year ago
Femina wrote:
1 year ago
I raise you one higher, America's relationship with shoving sex behind closed doors is SO successful, we don't feel Obligated to HAVE to pay for it, and thus the enormity of 'freemium' porn backlog and piracy is indicative of our complete disassociation with the act of even having to 'consume' porn as something American and is instead something we feel we are simply 'owed' in the red light of our own free time.
How does that make sense? If porn is FREE its MORE liberated, not stuffed behind a door. Is that a typo?
I don't want to speak for Femina so if she reads this and I've misinterpreted her please correct me; but think of it like this:

the attitude towards sex is so prudish and negative, that the idea of porn or sex work or whatever being a service/product like any other that deserves to be paid for is never acceptable. So it gets pushed to a sphere where, because it's still got this shameful/dirty stigma (or whatever) there's no culturally normal way to access it publicly and openly, so you might as well steal/pirate it, because accessing it normally doesn't "feel" any morally better to most people, and producers (I'm now basically talking about porn, rather than prostitution) have relatively little recourse to take steps to correct this, and no one gives a shit if they complain

I'm not necessarily saying this is or is not my opinion, I'm just trying to rephrase it
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Mr. X wrote:
1 year ago
Femina wrote:
1 year ago
I raise you one higher, America's relationship with shoving sex behind closed doors is SO successful, we don't feel Obligated to HAVE to pay for it, and thus the enormity of 'freemium' porn backlog and piracy is indicative of our complete disassociation with the act of even having to 'consume' porn as something American and is instead something we feel we are simply 'owed' in the red light of our own free time.
How does that make sense? If porn is FREE its MORE liberated, not stuffed behind a door. Is that a typo?
Porn isn't 'free' in the capitalist sense, we simply TAKE it freely. I have no doubt that commercially, they'd LOVE for us to pay for it, but they've yet to find a way to do so without upsetting the 'taboo' of dogmatic prudishness that the nation bases its principles on. Porn is just 'available', but your crazy if you think it's not stuffed behind a door? You're not 'liberated' for having a thing freely available... where it's HIDDEN behind a black curtain because you're ashamed of it. If that were true, we'd laud drug trafficking as a liberating pursuit.
Damselbinder wrote:
1 year ago
I don't want to speak for Femina so if she reads this and I've misinterpreted her please correct me; but think of it like this:

the attitude towards sex is so prudish and negative, that the idea of porn or sex work or whatever being a service/product like any other that deserves to be paid for is never acceptable. So it gets pushed to a sphere where, because it's still got this shameful/dirty stigma (or whatever) there's no culturally normal way to access it publicly and openly, so you might as well steal/pirate it, because accessing it normally doesn't "feel" any morally better to most people, and producers (I'm now basically talking about porn, rather than prostitution) have relatively little recourse to take steps to correct this, and no one gives a shit if they complain

I'm not necessarily saying this is or is not my opinion, I'm just trying to rephrase it
Pretty much this save, I suppose, that Sex WORK itself isn't really affected by this little phenomena, oh it's still behind closed doors, but you still have to pay for it cause you need to come to an arrangement with the physical individuals standing in front of you whose bodies you would like to utilize.

You get labeled weird for perusing anything to do with your sex drive in America. Put your name on a mailing list for sex toys, own too many 'sexy' books and someone figures out that you've partaken in said stuff (regardless of their own personal behaviors behind closed doors) and you suffer some kind of social fallout or damages. Therefore people are WORRIED about their fetishes or sex lives being discovered. The catch 22 of it all is, dealing with our sex drives is a biological imperative, we HAVE to deal with it or else we become psychologically deranged, therefore the majority of us realize we have to seek out a healthy and available outlet... and since doing that commercially is taboo and risks your reputation, dipping behind the black curtain to satisfy those needs appears to be the preeminent option. We've created a culture where the consumption of pornography and other 'sex drive' relief activities MUST be done on your own time, in secret, and has become an odd outlier in American consumerism wherein we commonly choose to skirt around the official channels to acquire it without feeling even an ounce of guilt... especially because getting CAUGHT exploring your sex drive is what actually makes you actually feel guilty.
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shevek wrote:
1 year ago

A bunch of other books which *orbit* the same universe as Rippa and EVS *do* make things sexy, such as Gemshock (hell, there was even an official 'swimsuit issue' from that scene by the Zaid Bros), and Rippa and EVS themselves make sure the Yaira and Heather characters are hella hot, but that's not the point. (And sure, Frank Cho costs more, but I don't think he exactly made a mint from Fight Girls on AWA last year. You don't need Frank Cho - all you need is someone who draws in the classical American comic style, as opposed to some other approach.)

I listed the lack of Supergirl's classical attractiveness as only *one* of several reasons people might be turned away from the book. The unusual space-trek setting, the neo-psychedelic European-style art, the lackadaisical decompression, and the overly flowery prose (to cover up the lack of anything happening, mostly) are just as prominent reasons why it would be a 'niche' book, if not more so. What's just as off-putting (just for me) is that there is indeed *peril* in one of the issues (several pages of Supergirl held in chains by pirates) but the angles are terrible and the whole thing looks too weird to be a classical version of what comic book peril actually is.

It actually reminds me a lot of the kind of books one saw during the 'Second Image Explosion' in 2012-2014: arty-ness, non-superheroism, and sci-fi exotica a la Saga, Low, Sex, Black Science, etc. In other words, it has an 'Euro/indie' feel to it. For Mobius fans, that's a great thing. If DC wants to sell a lot more than, say, 25,000 copies, not so much. (For example, S:WOT #4 sold 26,000 units, according to Comichron, but that's a rough estimate of what was *sold to shops*, not what ended up in customers' hands, which could be as low as half of that, while the rest sit in dollar comic bins for years.)
About the artwork, Bilquis Evely did a great job. I guess you will agree but not accept indeed. Let's start with something that we certainly both agree on. I don't like Sasha Calle either. Bilquis Evely didn't make Supergirl attractive naturally, which she was in the Supergirl movie 1984. I can't go with her hairstyle, giant belt, and uninspired face. Perhaps Bilquis Evely invests some personal feelings into the character as you can see she isn't the kind of woman who outstands amount people by her looks. Perhaps they both agree to keep her as an ordinary girl except for her suit and power. And then dig her admirable spirit out of a mundane shell.

About the style, I would rather say it is expressionism, which is a great choice here to be with its narrative way. Since we can not be in the 70s or 80s anymore, we got the Internet, watched thousands of films or artwork, and we don't need to feed by any other accurate figure to help us image a dragon or the universe. So besides the necessary information, it aims to pass the mood and the feeling. I think that's what expressionism is about. But then again, Supergirl deserves better looks.

About sexual things, I like to keep them in both natural and neutral ways. I mean, neither exaggerate nor veil it. In this case, I think they could be alright by lower the boots simply.

However, I think the series is worth reading. Although she can't be the Supergirl in my mind, some moments did impress me. Such as Supergirl dozing off in the crowded cabin in her suit or she hugs Ruthye as hugging a baby when she protects her from shooting etc.

I wonder if it is purely a coincidence that the scene with a green sun. It seems exactly the same as Salkind's description of his original idea of the phantom zone in the movie. Supergirl approaches Selena and is suddenly teleported by a magic trick into the phantom zone, where she loses her power and guard by her companion from her enemy. Even if the coincidence is, I will see the glass that releases Krem in the end as something come from the movie.

Before I finish, plz allow me to introduce the Chinese word 匠气(jiàng qì), which use for someone and his work which is damn good and right, probably full of admirable details and effort, but still not touch the level of a masterpiece or real art. That's what I feel about Supergirl: Woman of Tomorrow. Worth reading, great things in there you will find, but still, I can see some formula inside, part of 匠气 remains.
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shadowpowerslaver wrote:
1 year ago

About the artwork, Bilquis Evely did a great job. I guess you will agree but not accept indeed.

About the style, I would rather say it is expressionism.

I wonder if it is purely a coincidence that the scene with a green sun. It seems exactly the same as Salkind's description of his original idea of the phantom zone in the movie.

Before I finish, plz allow me to introduce the Chinese word 匠气(jiàng qì), which use for someone and his work which is damn good and right, probably full of admirable details and effort, but still not touch the level of a masterpiece or real art. That's what I feel about Supergirl: Woman of Tomorrow. Worth reading, great things in there you will find, but still, I can see some formula inside, part of 匠气 remains.
Yes, I will agree that Bilquis Evely's art is good. But it's not good for superhero stories.

I do think you are right that expressionism is a good reference for the style. It's European and artsy, with a certain level of abstraction meant to convey emotion, so yeah, that would be expressionism.

The scene with the green sun is not a "coincidence", but neither is it a reference to the Supergirl movie. It directly references the story "Superman Under the Green Sun" in Superman #155 which came out in 1962. In that story, the tyrannical ruler of a planet places a filter on the yellow sun of his star system, turning it green. And there are also monsters on the planet. The story was written by Bill Finger (co-creator of Batman). Tom King really thought he was "digging deep" to inject that reference.
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shevek wrote:
1 year ago
shadowpowerslaver wrote:
1 year ago

About the artwork, Bilquis Evely did a great job. I guess you will agree but not accept indeed.

About the style, I would rather say it is expressionism.

I wonder if it is purely a coincidence that the scene with a green sun. It seems exactly the same as Salkind's description of his original idea of the phantom zone in the movie.

Before I finish, plz allow me to introduce the Chinese word 匠气(jiàng qì), which use for someone and his work which is damn good and right, probably full of admirable details and effort, but still not touch the level of a masterpiece or real art. That's what I feel about Supergirl: Woman of Tomorrow. Worth reading, great things in there you will find, but still, I can see some formula inside, part of 匠气 remains.
Yes, I will agree that Bilquis Evely's art is good. But it's not good for superhero stories.

I do think you are right that expressionism is a good reference for the style. It's European and artsy, with a certain level of abstraction meant to convey emotion, so yeah, that would be expressionism.

The scene with the green sun is not a "coincidence", but neither is it a reference to the Supergirl movie. It directly references the story "Superman Under the Green Sun" in Superman #155 which came out in 1962. In that story, the tyrannical ruler of a planet places a filter on the yellow sun of his star system, turning it green. And there are also monsters on the planet. The story was written by Bill Finger (co-creator of Batman). Tom King really thought he was "digging deep" to inject that reference.
Yea, The main idea certainly is from superman, I noticed. I wonder if some details were inspired by or responded to the movie. I mean, it is just like an answer to some criticisms that say the glass idea is no sense. And if you read the final issue, there is a little "replay" of Helen's Supergirl land on the phantom zone.
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Ernie wrote:
1 year ago
Issue 7 of Supergirl: Woman of Tomorrow captures the absolute essence of superheroine peril, and it does it with great storytelling and unique and gripping artwork. From the cover, Supergirl alone and tiny in the face of a massive star ship of killers, to the assumption of her victory in the writing, to her devastating defeat and capture, the book consistently gets it right. The prose and the art are both unlike anything I've seen before. That, combined with such a perfectly executed battle just warmed the cockles of my SHIP heart. It is essentially heroine peril as high art, and it really works for me.
If DC actually attempts to make a live action movie of this story it will be a huge undertaking. Probably too ambitious. But if they do, and they find a way to recreate the tone and heart of the book seven battle, that will be a groundbreaking moment in superhero films.
Ernie - I understand your position and your enthusiasm in wanting to see the best peril elements in that battle, and I don't blame you, because when we are beggars in the postmodernist comics industry, we can't exactly be choosers. And yes, it would be monumental to see that level of peril executed correctly in the movie (and they could ameliorate the problems I'm going to list below just by selecting better and sexier camera angles and a nicer and tighter costume). But it's not like peril never existed with Supergirl in live-action. The TV show itself had multiple peril moments - from being chained by the Master Jailer, to being sealed in a life-size toy package, to being battered senseless by a villainess - which were as dramatic as the battle in issue 7.

But here's my problem with what you call a masterpiece: it isn't. Because of the abstract impressionistic nature of the art style, and the lack of really good camera angles for the peril (you don't really get to see the front of her costume!), it's not as impactful as peril scenes were back in the 70s, when you could clearly see characters like Supergirl straining in their tight costumes to be released from whatever constrained them, and they were drawn in a classically beautiful sense. You might claim that style is gone - I disagree. It still exists in the American indie world, and even if American artists in the Big 2 are too mired in the Cal Arts/Tumblr mode or whatever, it's easy enough to hire a bunch of eager guys in Southeast Asia or Latin American to draw Supergirl with the classical kind of enthusiasm she deserves, like the days when Jose Luis Garcia Lopez was creating all of the art for the DC lunchboxes/

Furthermore, you can see in the art below that *it is possible* to make this kind of straightforward peril: Bilquis Evely does it with the villain, Krem.
See below: he is tied traditionally to a tree, with restrains around his mouth, chest, legs and arms.

But when it comes to Supergirl, you can see in the two pages of peril below that they show her face close up, they show her face being smashed against the ground in a very abstract fashion, and they show her being restrained from behind (which is certainly nice) but you don't get the sense of the active, kinetic struggle that you would get if you saw parts of her body writhing in the chains. The fact that her face is not classically beautiful, and that her hair makes weird angular shapes, doesn't help either. It's not terrible, but it's not great.

i guess one of my other complains about Bilquis Evely's art style is that she goes for an awful lot of 'static shots' (mostly involving people in conversation) and these action peril shots are also a bit more static than I'd like. I think this was a missed opportunity.

But yes, of course, I'd love to see this scene re-created in live action. Who on this forum wouldn't???

Krem peril....
krem peril issue 7 (1).jpg
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Compared to the Supergirl peril...
supergirl peril issue 7 (1).jpg
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supergirl peril issue 7 (2).jpg
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supergirl peril issue 7 (3).jpg
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shevek wrote:
1 year ago
shadowpowerslaver wrote:
1 year ago

About the artwork, Bilquis Evely did a great job. I guess you will agree but not accept indeed.

About the style, I would rather say it is expressionism.

I wonder if it is purely a coincidence that the scene with a green sun. It seems exactly the same as Salkind's description of his original idea of the phantom zone in the movie.

Before I finish, plz allow me to introduce the Chinese word 匠气(jiàng qì), which use for someone and his work which is damn good and right, probably full of admirable details and effort, but still not touch the level of a masterpiece or real art. That's what I feel about Supergirl: Woman of Tomorrow. Worth reading, great things in there you will find, but still, I can see some formula inside, part of 匠气 remains.
Yes, I will agree that Bilquis Evely's art is good. But it's not good for superhero stories.

I do think you are right that expressionism is a good reference for the style. It's European and artsy, with a certain level of abstraction meant to convey emotion, so yeah, that would be expressionism.

The scene with the green sun is not a "coincidence", but neither is it a reference to the Supergirl movie. It directly references the story "Superman Under the Green Sun" in Superman #155 which came out in 1962. In that story, the tyrannical ruler of a planet places a filter on the yellow sun of his star system, turning it green. And there are also monsters on the planet. The story was written by Bill Finger (co-creator of Batman). Tom King really thought he was "digging deep" to inject that reference.
Actually, there is this classic Supergirl story in Action 337.
Action337-19.jpg
Action337-19.jpg (181.7 KiB) Viewed 5394 times
He was powerless, yet did a batch of "super" acts to help the locals before leaving the planet.
God that Jim Mooney art was sweet on the eyes IMHO! :blink:

My 2 cents.
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Of potential things one could pick to criticize about the battle artwork in issue 7 of the series, calling it too static is a fascinating choice. The only way some of those panels could be more dynamic was if the images actually moved.
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Ernie wrote:
1 year ago
Of potential things one could pick to criticize about the battle artwork in issue 7 of the series, calling it too static is a fascinating choice. The only way some of those panels could be more dynamic was if the images actually moved.
OK, I guess I overdid the specific criticism of *those* images as being 'static'. They're dynamic, but too mixed with the abstract. What I meant was that there were SO MANY very static images in the previous issues (a very curious lack of action, and lots of talking) that my expectations were already lowered.

Evely obviously did what she could to create an active battle scene. I'm just not super impressed with the results, compared to many of the comics of the past. Even just selecting a random Supergirl artist from the past (such as Jim Mooney...but you could include the likes of Don Heck or Carmine Infantino), you can see how much more beautiful the character is depicted. Evely's style tones down the va-va-voom beauty in favor of a kind of "expressionistic emotional power" not unlike what you see in some European comics.

And though I can clearly see Kirby's cosmic style and Frazetta's fantasy art as being influences... once again, I think that works great with the backgrounds, the aliens, and the swashbucklers. I just don't it works that well with the superhero story - I think it works better if you are writing about Barbarella (check the recent Dynamite series of Barbarella, which I reviewed). Obviously, my opinion is in the minority amongst those who have read the series, and I accept that just fine. Not a lot have read this series, though, and I think this approach isn't mainstream enough (it's clearly a niche indie style) for a regular DC comic.

That's why it puzzles me that a story like "Woman of Tomorrow" (the title of which has nothing to do with the subject matter of the story - the phrase is pure virtue signaling) would be chosen to depict the first return of Supergirl to the silver screen in 40 years. You'd think they'd want to adapt something safer and with a much broader appeal.

Here's what Gabriel Hernandez from the comic review website Comical Opinions had to say about "Woman of Tomorrow". I trust him because he has taken the time over the past couple years to write up fair critical assessment of the first three issues of Heroineburgh.

"Supergirl: Woman of Tomorrow (Film): This announcement, more than all the rest combined, makes me want to throw a chair through a window. The 2022 comic series, written by the infamous Tom King, is a depressing exercise in misery porn. King’s version of Kara is so far removed from anything Supergirl represents, she might as well not exist at all, and the plot is a direct copy/paste of True Grit. The very notion that this entry is part of the lineup, and that Tom King was consulted on the first chapter of DC films in any capacity, is the biggest red flag of all."
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I would LOVE to see a new well done classic Supergirl movie. If they do get a new Supergirl project off the ground, let’s hope they learned some lessons from the past, and approach this effort with a business focus based on common sense.

First, the 1984 movie had so much going for it, sans a story. The character is Super “girl” not Superwoman. If you wanted the latter, I always looked to Wonder Woman. The 1984 casting a young blonde attractive actress gave the producers so many future revenue options i.e., the potential series of additional Supergirl movies. This same approach will work today and should be a fundamental part of their strategy. Despite the argument to the contrary, the 1984 iconic approach to Supergirl (in a cheer length skirt and no bike shorts) can also appeal to a younger female population. Done correctly, a feminine audience can see a strong young female be both feminine and tough, with the right story (for no nonsense - see Kara in the trucker scene). Like her, or not, I point to Amber Heard in “Drive Angry” as an example of strong and feminine. Her Piper character was attractive (sex appeal) with a vulnerable empathetic side. Piper equally had a toughness that clearly showed she could/would mix it up. And Piper didn’t take crap. Smoothing some of the rough edges off the Piper character presents an opportunity to show Kara portrayed as empowered and still VERY female. Helen Slater was the main reason I saw the movie and eventually purchased the DVD. Amber was also the motivation for doing both for “Drive Angry”.

Next, learn from the Supergirl TV show. Like so many, I was in front of the big screen ready for a new Supergirl TV show. Unfortunately, after the middle of the second show I quit the series. After immediately alienating the core Supergirl fanbase, they proceeded to move to that woke social warrior crap that had no place in a true Supergirl adventure. In the end, they were shamelessly kowtowing to the voices from a very small market share. These morons turned a once popular female super heroine into an androgynous woke joke. The degrading spiral culminated in the absurd upcoming Spiderman cameo. I challenge DC to put up the iconic young blonde blue eyed attractive Supergirl character in the classic uniform (which means a short skirt), against the version they recently appallingly propped up and let the bottom-line revenue determine the winner (See Top Gun Maverick).

I do have to respectfully offer this counterpoint to Mr. X. Sex does sell. Having been involved with marketing on a national level for years, there is absolutely no doubt, it’s sex that gets attention. Intelligent companies, with a backbone, target their campaigns to a specific revenue generating market. Back in the day, DC knew who bought comics, boys. Of course, there was a female purchasing element, but the overall significant amount of revenue came from males. If we were to honestly ask ourselves, “The first time you saw a Supergirl, Batgirl, or Wonder Woman comic, what was the first thing that caught your eye?” the answer would be sex. We may not have readily recognized it at the time, but they did. Regardless of the push back against sex in marketing and maximizing revenue, sex is still and will always be the champ.
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McGheeny wrote:
1 year ago

I do have to respectfully offer this counterpoint to Mr. X. Sex does sell. Having been involved with marketing on a national level for years, there is absolutely no doubt, it’s sex that gets attention. Intelligent companies, with a backbone, target their campaigns to a specific revenue generating market. Back in the day, DC knew who bought comics, boys. Of course, there was a female purchasing element, but the overall significant amount of revenue came from males. If we were to honestly ask ourselves, “The first time you saw a Supergirl, Batgirl, or Wonder Woman comic, what was the first thing that caught your eye?” the answer would be sex. We may not have readily recognized it at the time, but they did. Regardless of the push back against sex in marketing and maximizing revenue, sex is still and will always be the champ.
Yes back in the day - 1960-2000 era. All those characters got people hooked in that era. Not so much today.
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Ernie wrote:
1 year ago
Of potential things one could pick to criticize about the battle artwork in issue 7 of the series, calling it too static is a fascinating choice. The only way some of those panels could be more dynamic was if the images actually moved.
I agree with you. Bilquis Evely made a good choice in her way. But talking about the camera movement, Dragon Ball perfectly explains how to make them dynamic. The fact is that static is a deliberate choice here. Because the story uses third-person narration, in a petty calm tone.
So, if they want to make it dynamic, it certainly has a way and could be.
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I'm just starting to read this comic series. Pretty cool so far. Potentially could make an awesome film.

As long as they get the casting and costume right.
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Fun fact: Meg Donnelly also voices Supergirl in a cartoon titled Legion of Super-Heroes.
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I like Emilia Jones. I suppose they're gonna have to dye her hair blonde though...
Check out my superheroine-related short stories here:

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Milly Alcock has been officially cast as Supergirl.
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Good for Milly Alcock for being cast as the newest Supergirl. I liked her on House of the Dragon.
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Her name is ALCOCK? alright alright alright!

Does she do porn?
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