Gotham Knights

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Gotham Knights

Post by Femina »

So They are finally making a Batgirl game!!!

Well okay, it's a game with four main options as characters, but Batgirl is one of them and seems like you can make her your choice from start to finish. Looks pretty Arkham-esque but word on the street is its not actually in the Arkham universe.

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Re: Gotham Knights

Post by Maskripper »

Yeah, I read today that this game has nothing to do with the Arkham games which were made by a different company.
I also read that they will have big rpg-elements so you can develop the character like you want to.
Also it is expected that different costumes are available.
That would explain why the Batgirl at the end of the gameplay video has a cool cowl and not that ridiculous eye mask.
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Looking forward to this one! Love the Arkham games and I hope this will end up on a similiar quality level.
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Re: Gotham Knights

Post by Evil Spider »

Gotham Knights is being developed by WB Games Montréal, the Arkham games were developed by Rocksteady Studios, which is developing Suicide Squad: Kill the Justice League. Gotham Knights isn't related to the Arkham universe as it has other developer than Arkham series had. I'll be definitely playing the most with Batgirl! I'm very interested in both games, also preordered and tried playing Marvel's Avengers beta last weekend, great to see all these superhero/supervillain games coming.
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Re: Gotham Knights

Post by Femina »

Evil Spider wrote: 2 years ago Gotham Knights is being developed by WB Games Montréal, the Arkham games were developed by Rocksteady Studios, which is developing Suicide Squad: Kill the Justice League. Gotham Knights isn't related to the Arkham universe as it has other developer than Arkham series had. I'll be definitely playing the most with Batgirl! I'm very interested in both games, also preordered and tried playing Marvel's Avengers beta last weekend, great to see all these superhero/supervillain games coming.
I played that as well! Was pleasantly surprised. Feel like I saw some paralels in Gotham Knights, makes me wonder if the plan there is to eventually start releasing other 'knights' with luck we might see Catwoman, Batwoman, Spoiler. etc. released overtime.
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Re: Gotham Knights

Post by Evil Spider »

Femina wrote: 2 years ago
Evil Spider wrote: 2 years ago Gotham Knights is being developed by WB Games Montréal, the Arkham games were developed by Rocksteady Studios, which is developing Suicide Squad: Kill the Justice League. Gotham Knights isn't related to the Arkham universe as it has other developer than Arkham series had. I'll be definitely playing the most with Batgirl! I'm very interested in both games, also preordered and tried playing Marvel's Avengers beta last weekend, great to see all these superhero/supervillain games coming.
I played that as well! Was pleasantly surprised. Feel like I saw some paralels in Gotham Knights, makes me wonder if the plan there is to eventually start releasing other 'knights' with luck we might see Catwoman, Batwoman, Spoiler. etc. released overtime.
Avengers had very good action indeed, I played mostly with Hulk, however must admit Black Widow's amazing ASSets in her tight widow suit distracted me some! I'm on Xbox and still quite salty that Spiderman is Playstation exclusive only, could be time exclusive and could be on Xbox and PC later. I'm sure there will be additional characters in Gotham Knights, I'd be very surprised if Catwoman isn't in the game at some point. Some hot wrestling match between Batgirl or Batwoman and Catwoman would be extremely exciting indeed! :ybat:
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Re: Gotham Knights

Post by Dogfish »

Knights looks like an Assassin's Creed game except with Batgirl and some B-listers. Definitely on board for it.

Avengers looked painfully bad, and I played the beta and that was painfully bad, so, not great.

The big game in town of course is Rocksteady doing Suicide Squad, but I've got to say, just on the strength of the cinematic trailer, it looked waaaaaaaaaaay too shooty. Like, King Shark should not be shooting people. Giant red flag.
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Re: Gotham Knights

Post by Femina »

Yeah I'm still super down for this game! Can't wait to Batgirl it up in Gotham City! Hope we get some more information on the game soon.
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Re: Gotham Knights

Post by MightyHypnotic »

Oh I am in!
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Re: Gotham Knights

Post by Dogfish »

Figured to update this thread.

So the game got delayed.

Here's a video of it in action. Little bit janky but this is from August 2020.



And a trailer for the Court of Owls stuff.



WB confirmed it as on schedule for this year, but they haven't narrowed down precisely when.

Since it's not Rocksteady making this my expectations are not super high, but I remain, as ever, down to clown when it comes to the Arkham series, which I guess this is still part of.
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Re: Gotham Knights

Post by Bladebur »

Well, the game was released and reviews are divisive but most paint it as a bad game. However, I'm playing it right now and surprisingly having a great time with it, so I figured out I'd update this thread in case anyone is interested.

You can play the entire game solo as Batgirl and it will play strictly like an Arkham City game with Batgirl as protagonist, with the other characters just showing up in cutscenes at your home and providing radio chat. There is no forced friendly AI or something like that, although you can play coop with a friend or online if you want (entirely optional). Batgirl herself has a great figure, some nice customization options, and some pretty tight costumes to unlock ^^

I'm pretty sure this is the closest we've ever been to a superheroine game made by a big studio. Obviously you shouldn't expect peril or fanservice or something like that, but I enjoyed some fun moments like Clayface telling Batgirl he was going to prepare a bat-trap for her (probably a Batman 66 reference) or the main villain of the game opening a trap door in the floor making her fall into a death trap (well, the kind of death trap you escape jumping around and punching people, but hey). Edit: surprisingly, there is also a pretty nice gas knockout scene, too.

On the other hand, the game has atrocious performance issues in all platforms, and a ton of bad design decisions. I'd recommend playing it with very low expectations. The game is also poorly balanced in hard mode and beating mobs takes forever unless you have powerful equipment (which is not even available initially).
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Re: Gotham Knights

Post by Femina »

I don't know what all the review whining is about honestly... It's basically exactly the game that was advertised. Maybe it runs significantly worse on consoles?
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Re: Gotham Knights

Post by Bladebur »

Femina wrote: 1 month ago I don't know what all the review whining is about honestly... It's basically exactly the game that was advertised. Maybe it runs significantly worse on consoles?
I have it both on PS5 and PC, and both versions have really bad performance, especially when navigating the city in the bicycle.

I've now finished the game in hard mode and, while I had a ton of trouble for the first third or so with spongey enemies (to the point were I thought the game had balancing issues), once I had proper gear the game changed completely and I had a blast. It makes me think it may have been my fault for not playing the game properly.
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Re: Gotham Knights

Post by Mr. X »

Femina wrote: 1 month ago I don't know what all the review whining is about honestly... It's basically exactly the game that was advertised. Maybe it runs significantly worse on consoles?
One issue is a comparison of the Arkham .Years and the graphics haven't improved much.
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Re: Gotham Knights

Post by Femina »

Mr. X wrote: 1 month ago
Femina wrote: 1 month ago I don't know what all the review whining is about honestly... It's basically exactly the game that was advertised. Maybe it runs significantly worse on consoles?
One issue is a comparison of the Arkham .Years and the graphics haven't improved much.
People keep comparing it to Arkham Knight and going look how baaaad it is in comparison!!!!!

...

And all of them seem to be forgetting that Arkham Knight was taken OFF Steam... like... one of the very first games ever to do so, because it was essentially unplayable when it released. Yeah it's easy to wow people with how pretty your game is when it doesn't actually work.

Gotham Knights is fully playable on release and is super fun. People be complaining over water physics you don't even use cause none of the Arkham games ever let you swim anyway. Batman drowned when he hit the ocean to!
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Re: Gotham Knights

Post by Maskripper »

Well, the game got a review from my favorite gaming site/PC magazine and it got a 70 (out of 100).
That isn't totally bad... but far away from anything the older games from the Arkham series had reached.
Seemingly the story of the game goes fully downhill after half the game and the fights are done much worse in this one in comparison.
Plus the game seems to have some technical issues.
Glad that I waited for the test instead of getting too hyped over it.

I will buy that game when it is much cheaper. Until then they can patch it up and hopefully improve at least some technical issues.
So, all the Batgirl action with all those different costumes will have to wait.... at least for me.
Pretty disappointing.
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Re: Gotham Knights

Post by Mr. X »


Good example of the complaint against GK
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Re: Gotham Knights

Post by Bladebur »

Maskripper wrote: 1 month ago Well, the game got a review from my favorite gaming site/PC magazine and it got a 70 (out of 100).
That isn't totally bad... but far away from anything the older games from the Arkham series had reached.
Seemingly the story of the game goes fully downhill after half the game and the fights are done much worse in this one in comparison.
Plus the game seems to have some technical issues.
Glad that I waited for the test instead of getting too hyped over it.

I will buy that game when it is much cheaper. Until then they can patch it up and hopefully improve at least some technical issues.
So, all the Batgirl action with all those different costumes will have to wait.... at least for me.
Pretty disappointing.
A 7/10 sounds about right and is not a disaster score. It could easily be an 8/10 if they improve character movement and especially performance. They've said they are working on a big performance patch, so there is some hope.

The bit about the story is nonsense, as one of the best story missions is in the late part of the game. I'm not a fan of the ending and the last mission, but I'd say the single player experience is good, with some excellent set pieces and environments. The story is serviceable (but I don't think this is a game you play for the story, to be honest). 95% of the missions play in their own levels, not in the open world, and do not suffer from any of the performance and technical issues in the game.

The combat is a matter of opinion, I think it's fine and had great fun with it. I don't think it's as good as the Arkham games, but it works very well once it clicks. I have to admit it suffers from some very questionable design decisions, though (for example: finishers, grab kills, and ultimate moves have lengthy animations with a cinematic camera and, unlike in most third person fighting games, you are not immune to damage while they are playing despite not being able to interrupt them; enemies inconsistently will attack you or not while they play, so sometimes you receive damage from somewhere offscreen while you are stuck in those animations and there's nothing you can do... Grabs become essentially useless in combat due to this). That being said, you can adjust to those things, and most of the criticism I've seen comes from people who are really bad at the game or play it like a button smasher (in hard mode, for some reason). For example, gear is extremely important, and proper gear can be the difference between two-shotting an enemy or doing barely any damage at all, but almost all reviewers are saying that gear has no consequence (?). You really need to use different attack combos depending on your goal (raw damage, critical, or status damage) but many are saying combos are useless.

The biggest issue this game has is the comparison with the Arkham games, but those are not really fair. Arkham Knight was an artistic marvel and way ahead its time in many ways, but it had a ton of issues: it was an even bigger technical disaster on launch, the story was bad (like how the identity of the main villain is obvious from the first minute of the game but they still act like it's that big secret and reveal, or how they still rely on the Joker again and again, even when he is not around) and the batmobile was extremely overused. I'd still say Gotham Knight is definitively worse than the Arkham games, but it's also a different game.
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Re: Gotham Knights

Post by Femina »

Mr. X wrote: 1 month ago
Good example of the complaint against GK
The only way this comparison is totally valid is if we do it after Gotham Knights is seven years old. This isn't what Arkham Knight looked like on release. On release it was a buggy mess.

Besides. Graphics today are generally just good enough that they don't matter a whole lot anymore. Only the few games clearly 'pushing boundaries' need to care about it all that much.
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Re: Gotham Knights

Post by Mr. X »

Femina wrote: 1 month ago The only way this comparison is totally valid is if we do it after Gotham Knights is seven years old. This isn't what Arkham Knight looked like on release. On release it was a buggy mess.

Besides. Graphics today are generally just good enough that they don't matter a whole lot anymore. Only the few games clearly 'pushing boundaries' need to care about it all that much.
Still, 7 years is a tech jump in the game industry. Shift to cycles-x and optix for example. Maybe they were trying to avoid a messy release like cyberpunk. But I would think there would be something substantial unless they are accommodating older platforms.
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Re: Gotham Knights

Post by MightyHypnotic »

This almost looks like you could put the Batgirl character in GTA5 lol
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Re: Gotham Knights

Post by Bladebur »

I'd say that video doesn't do GK justice. It seems to have city traffic density set to minimum, the city looks more alive when you set that to high or highest (and it doesn't impact performance that much, compared to view distance). To be honest, it never has a well populated city like the Spiderman games or even Cyberpunk, but it's better.

In any case, my favorite Arkham game would be Arkham City, the game which (by pure coincidence) happens to feature Catwoman tied in chains both in game and in the promotional materials. Graphics be damned, the real choice has to be between Catwoman in chains or Batgirl knocked out in a gas trap XD
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Re: Gotham Knights

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I think the graphics are good, but the hardware requirements for these graphics are just too high.
No release on PS4/Xbox One and on PC you need an average PC even for the minimum requirements.
That could have been done better.
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Re: Gotham Knights

Post by Mr. X »

Maskripper wrote: 1 month ago I think the graphics are good, but the hardware requirements for these graphics are just too high.
No release on PS4/Xbox One and on PC you need an average PC even for the minimum requirements.
That could have been done better.
I wonder if they could have just used the older engine or even then entire Gotham map.
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Re: Gotham Knights

Post by Bladebur »

Performance is certainly poor in all platforms as the game is very CPU limited (and by single thread performance), but at least they've recognized it and promised improved performance in the next patches.

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Re: Gotham Knights

Post by Femina »

I just haven't really had any performance problems like... at all? I have all my settings maxed except ray tracing. If I turn ray tracing on it start's to hitch when I move around the city too fast so I leave it off.... and that's it, the ONLY option that isn't at maximum. The game has crashed twice... I guess that's 'technically' a performance problem but show me the game that doesn't ever crash and I'll expect Hell to be frozen when I get there. It's pretty good at putting you back exactly where you were whenever you crash as well.

I may just have a good PC and card for it idk... but the game runs without hitching at a pretty consistent 45-55 fps and again that's with all my settings exept ray tracing on and maxed (if you're of the 60 fps or die mindset then I feel sorry for you... in an ironic sarcastic 'boohoo spoiled baby' sort of way) the graphics maybe aren't top top top of the line but they ARE good, especially when you're standing on a building and looking out over the city... I can see a big improvement as well with ray tracing turned on... so maybe if they can get the game full optimized and worked out and I can turn THAT on it'll be swell. The models look great, the costumes look great, the combat is fun especially once you get the hang of momentum skills and stringing your movement abilities into combat and exit maneuvers. I mean the Bat family aren't as fluidly mobile as Spider-man I guess.... but they don't have spider powers anyway they have to play differently by nature of not being actual SUPERPOWERED heroes.

I suppose the batcycle kind of sucks... but once you have your characters travel ability relatively early on and then later all your Fast travel points unlocked you'll never touch the bat cycle again anyway. I think I drove it four times?

So I guess the moral of the story is... maybe get it on PC if you can? I feel bad for console players who I imagine are getting the worst of it.

There's also a FANTASTIC photo mode option which is available in the pause menu that can basically snap anything at any time from any angle (including during cutscenes... though you can't change angles and stuff there you can still snap shots of the cutscene... found this out AFTER the gassing scene sadly :( )
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Re: Gotham Knights

Post by Maskripper »

Bladebur wrote: 1 month ago Image
The temptation..... no, stay strong Maskripper.... don't buy it yet!!!!
ARRGGGGHGHH!
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Re: Gotham Knights

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Femina wrote: 1 month ago I just haven't really had any performance problems like... at all? I have all my settings maxed except ray tracing. If I turn ray tracing on it start's to hitch when I move around the city too fast so I leave it off.... and that's it, the ONLY option that isn't at maximum. The game has crashed twice... I guess that's 'technically' a performance problem but show me the game that doesn't ever crash and I'll expect Hell to be frozen when I get there. It's pretty good at putting you back exactly where you were whenever you crash as well.
Well, the thing is that performance is like that (around 40fps, with bad frame pacing) regardless of your computer, due to the nature of their engine and its limitations. People with expensive top of the line machines still have the same performance, with their CPUs and GPUs being used less than 30%. If you are used to game on PC, those numbers are really bad, especially because there is nothing in game granting that kind of performance.

The photo mode is great, I didn't know you can use it on cutscenes.

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Re: Gotham Knights

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Bladebur wrote: 1 month ago Well, the thing is that performance is like that (around 40fps, with bad frame pacing) regardless of your computer, due to the nature of their engine and its limitations. People with expensive top of the line machines still have the same performance, with their CPUs and GPUs being used less than 30%. If you are used to game on PC, those numbers are really bad, especially because there is nothing in game granting that kind of performance.

The photo mode is great, I didn't know you can use it on cutscenes.

Image
Probably due to cross platform design though the new consoles are supposed to be more PC like in the way they handle multi threading. The PS2 had SPUs that could independently execute which allowed nifty things like instancing but that was not very translatable to other platforms. Could also be they turned off multi threading due to crash issues to get it out the door then will turn it on later and you will see a performance boost.

They had a working engine already with the Arkham series. Perhaps it didn't use cycles and they wanted to upgrade. If they are using cycles and optix the previews aren't showing anything spectacular.

It seems this is just a reduced output "safe" release.
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Re: Gotham Knights

Post by Femina »

Mr. X wrote: 1 month ago
Bladebur wrote: 1 month ago Well, the thing is that performance is like that (around 40fps, with bad frame pacing) regardless of your computer, due to the nature of their engine and its limitations. People with expensive top of the line machines still have the same performance, with their CPUs and GPUs being used less than 30%. If you are used to game on PC, those numbers are really bad, especially because there is nothing in game granting that kind of performance.

The photo mode is great, I didn't know you can use it on cutscenes.

Image
Probably due to cross platform design though the new consoles are supposed to be more PC like in the way they handle multi threading. The PS2 had SPUs that could independently execute which allowed nifty things like instancing but that was not very translatable to other platforms. Could also be they turned off multi threading due to crash issues to get it out the door then will turn it on later and you will see a performance boost.

They had a working engine already with the Arkham series. Perhaps it didn't use cycles and they wanted to upgrade. If they are using cycles and optix the previews aren't showing anything spectacular.

It seems this is just a reduced output "safe" release.
Arkham was using UE 3... pretty much at it's peak and final form. There's not really anywhere to GROW from where Arkham Knight was so UE4 makes more sense as if you plan to work on say, Gotham Knights 2 using the same engine you can still bring it out looking significantly better with your teams improvements and experience. If they'd used the old Arkham series engine it would have just basically looked identical to Arkham Knight... and Gotham Knights 2 using the same engine would remain identical to Arkham Knight.

Gotham Knights 3 at the tail end of UE4's development and developer experience ought to look pretty spectacular in comparison, but for now we're playing games that are being made on a newer engine working the kinks out....

And again... just cause I don't think it's evident enough to most people in hindsight. Arkham Knight released in June of 2015... was TAKEN OFF PC cause it was so bad... and not released BACK to PC until like... late October of that year. THATS the game we're all going 'ooooooh Gotham Knights doesn't look as good as THIS!!!" By comparison that sorta makes Gotham Knights a FAR superior launch.
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Re: Gotham Knights

Post by Bladebur »

Mr. X wrote: 1 month ago Probably due to cross platform design though the new consoles are supposed to be more PC like in the way they handle multi threading. The PS2 had SPUs that could independently execute which allowed nifty things like instancing but that was not very translatable to other platforms. Could also be they turned off multi threading due to crash issues to get it out the door then will turn it on later and you will see a performance boost.

They had a working engine already with the Arkham series. Perhaps it didn't use cycles and they wanted to upgrade. If they are using cycles and optix the previews aren't showing anything spectacular.

It seems this is just a reduced output "safe" release.
The problem is very focused on streaming, Digital Foundry did a pretty in depth video about the problem. I think you are probably right on the mark about them switching out multithreading in their streaming system, as that's a very common thing to do to make a subsystem more stable when shit hits the fan, I've worked in projects with similar issues. Giving the backslash they've received I'm pretty sure they're working their asses off right now to fix it and there's a high chance we'll see a patch with far better performance.

I suspect they're not using the Arkham codebase at all for this game. There are plenty of subtle details about character movement, collision detection and certain mechanics (like gliding) which makes me think this is a brand new implementation (and in many ways, a worse one, to be honest). I may be completely wrong, though. The engine is certainly based on UE4 (Arkham Knight was on a heavily modified UE3).

It's a bit surprising because the game is very solid otherwise. I'm on my second playthrough and the entire experience has been almost 100% bug-free.

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Re: Gotham Knights

Post by Femina »

Bladebur wrote: 1 month ago
Mr. X wrote: 1 month ago Probably due to cross platform design though the new consoles are supposed to be more PC like in the way they handle multi threading. The PS2 had SPUs that could independently execute which allowed nifty things like instancing but that was not very translatable to other platforms. Could also be they turned off multi threading due to crash issues to get it out the door then will turn it on later and you will see a performance boost.

They had a working engine already with the Arkham series. Perhaps it didn't use cycles and they wanted to upgrade. If they are using cycles and optix the previews aren't showing anything spectacular.

It seems this is just a reduced output "safe" release.
The problem is very focused on streaming, Digital Foundry did a pretty in depth video about the problem. I think you are probably right on the mark about them switching out multithreading in their streaming system, as that's a very common thing to do to make a subsystem more stable when shit hits the fan, I've worked in projects with similar issues. Giving the backslash they've received I'm pretty sure they're working their asses off right now to fix it and there's a high chance we'll see a patch with far better performance.

I suspect they're not using the Arkham codebase at all for this game. There are plenty of subtle details about character movement, collision detection and certain mechanics (like gliding) which makes me think this is a brand new implementation (and in many ways, a worse one, to be honest). I may be completely wrong, though. The engine is certainly based on UE4 (Arkham Knight was on a heavily modified UE3).

It's a bit surprising because the game is very solid otherwise. I'm on my second playthrough and the entire experience has been almost 100% bug-free.

Image
They aren't. They were pretty clear about that from the get go. It's NOT an 'Arkham' game either. It's not in the same cannon, it never was. The only similarities are basically in how the game controls and it's really only most evident in Batgirl who happens to play similarly to Batman in a lot of ways.
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Re: Gotham Knights

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Femina wrote: 1 month ago They aren't. They were pretty clear about that from the get go. It's NOT an 'Arkham' game either. It's not in the same cannon, it never was. The only similarities are basically in how the game controls and it's really only most evident in Batgirl who happens to play similarly to Batman in a lot of ways.
Well, the game loop is very Arkham, including the linear levels with combat arenas interlaced with stealth arenas and such. Combat is very similar and still based on prioritizing counters (replaced with the more common dodge/attack pattern, but still), controlling the crowd, answering to color-coded attacks, etc. It iterates on a number of Arkham mechanics, like the detective stuff, but still, this (in my opinion) is essentially an Arkham game with untethered co-op and RPG loot progression on top. Always talking about gameplay, the story is another thing for sure (and I'm glad it's not set in the Arkham universe).

I admit I've only played the other characters briefly, but the core gameplay feels the same to me. Their abilities are different, but mechanically they serve a similar purpose. You still have ranged and close attacks, dodges with counters, piercing attacks to interrupt, crowd control special attacks, combos with different damage/stun/status balance, etc.
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Re: Gotham Knights

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I've been quiet lately because I may have accidentally blown up my PC. Ahem. But it'll be back soon.

Not sure I'll be going for this game though, I'm a bit put off by the weapons. Does Batgirl always have to use that tonfa/club thing?
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Re: Gotham Knights

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Dogfish wrote: 1 month ago I've been quiet lately because I may have accidentally blown up my PC. Ahem. But it'll be back soon.

Not sure I'll be going for this game though, I'm a bit put off by the weapons. Does Batgirl always have to use that tonfa/club thing?
Yes, it's always tonfa and batarangs.
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Re: Gotham Knights

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Re: Gotham Knights

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Mr. X wrote: 1 month ago
Complaints about this game usually fall into two categories: the first one are things that are true, but are not that big of an issue as you may think; those are things that could be better (like performance or UI), or that Arkham games did better (like controls, stealth, or art direction) but still, those are not at the disaster level and they won't ruin the game for most people. The second one are a matter of opinion. For example, this reviewer says that co-op in GK is not fun because it feels like a single-player game where another people can tag along... But that's exactly the only kind of co-op I'd want in the game, because the alternatives (either a forced AI partner, or gated content you can't experience alone) are much worse, in my opinion.

There are a number of things Gothan Knights does better than the Arkham games. It has Batgirl. It has co-op. It has character customization. It has RPG progression. It has a gear setup with different in-game effects. It has loot. It has more enemy variety. It is more replayable.

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Re: Gotham Knights

Post by Femina »

The thumbnail on that video is also clearly showing a side by side image of Arkham Knight vs Gotham Knights at the lowest possible settings.

I really hate thumbnail science.
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Re: Gotham Knights

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Femina wrote: 1 month ago The thumbnail on that video is also clearly showing a side by side image of Arkham Knight vs Gotham Knights at the lowest possible settings.

I really hate thumbnail science.
Problem is GK won't allow the user to turn off raytracing to get better performance. I'm not squashing the game. I'm in agreement something should have gotten significantly better over the last 7 years.
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Re: Gotham Knights

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Mr. X wrote: 1 month ago
Femina wrote: 1 month ago The thumbnail on that video is also clearly showing a side by side image of Arkham Knight vs Gotham Knights at the lowest possible settings.

I really hate thumbnail science.
Problem is GK won't allow the user to turn off raytracing to get better performance. I'm not squashing the game. I'm in agreement something should have gotten significantly better over the last 7 years.
Speaking about the PC version

Yes you can? I can't turn ON raytracing without getting some hitching when open worlding. Its the only option I can't turn on. I think my DLSS allows me to get 'something' of the raytracing effect at better performance but you absolutely CAN and SHOULD turn off raytracing in the options menu on the PC if it's slowing down your experience... and raytracing makes it LOOK better? If we're saying 'this game should LOOK better than Arkham Knight the answer certainly isn't 'options to make it perform better looking worse. If we're gonna go side by side image comparisons of Arkham Knight vs Gotham Knight the only way is to show them side by side at max specs on the best hardware available NOT to show an image of Arkham Knight at its best alongside a granulated blown up image of Gotham Knights CLEARLY set to it's lowest available performance over quality graphics options just to make it look bad. It's a dishonest attention mongering thing the ad folk have found to be super duper effective at getting clicks sure, but it's only reinforcing the useless state of 'negativity first' that's infecting everything, but quite specifically the gaming industry.

The fact is Arkham Knight did NOT perform better than Gotham Knights does on launch. It was BROKEN to the point Rocksteady REMOVED it from our capability to purchase it for the PC for SIX MONTHS.

I DON'T understand this revisionist hot take that Gotham Knights needs to learn from Arkham Knight in this regard. Gotham Knights is a SUPERIOR launch to Arkham Knight. You can buy it AND you can play it!
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Re: Gotham Knights

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I'm not attacking the game. Why are you so dead set on needing to argue. 7 years is a LONG time not to advance in tech all that much. Just settle down.
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Re: Gotham Knights

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Mr. X wrote: 1 month ago Problem is GK won't allow the user to turn off raytracing to get better performance. I'm not squashing the game. I'm in agreement something should have gotten significantly better over the last 7 years.
You can turn off raytracing in GK (on PC). It doesn't have much effect on performance because the game is CPU limited, though. That's probably why the console version doesn't have the option. Almost none of the graphic options has a serious effect on performance, not even resolution (unless you go way high or have a old GPU).
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Re: Gotham Knights

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Bladebur wrote: 1 month ago
Mr. X wrote: 1 month ago Problem is GK won't allow the user to turn off raytracing to get better performance. I'm not squashing the game. I'm in agreement something should have gotten significantly better over the last 7 years.
You can turn off raytracing in GK (on PC). It doesn't have much effect on performance because the game is CPU limited, though. That's probably why the console version doesn't have the option. Almost none of the graphic options has a serious effect on performance, not even resolution (unless you go way high or have a old GPU).

True. Most GPUs can push the graphics especially since GK isn't really pushing a whole lot of graphics.
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Re: Gotham Knights

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Mr. X wrote: 1 month ago I'm not attacking the game. Why are you so dead set on needing to argue. 7 years is a LONG time not to advance in tech all that much. Just settle down.
I'm calm dun worry about it. Just confused why AK keeps being brought up as the game to emulate all of a sudden since, as previously mentioned, it's launch was awful. If we had a time machine and released the games side by side as they released who in the world would be defending AK right now?

In the meanwhile there's been like a hundred games since Arkham Knight with graphics not as good as Arkham Knight that haven't been called out as garbage for it in the reviews. It's a selective sudden delusion. We can't compare GN's potential release state with AK's final form and call that a fair analysis. All we can do is compare how they released... and in that department Gotham Knights is far superior.

At the end of the day there isn't an enormous catalog of games today that look better than AK period. A big part of this is just that graphics fidelity advancements are becoming less and less dramatic, and less and leas important the nearer and nearer we come to photorealism. There were always going to be diminishing returns, and eventually a 'cap' to how good graphics can look. Once a game can look like real life, all we'll have is artistic license anyway.
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Re: Gotham Knights

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Femina wrote: 1 month ago
I'm calm dun worry about it. Just confused why AK keeps being brought up as the game to emulate all of a sudden since, as previously mentioned, it's launch was awful.
Because the launch doesn't matter. 7 years is an eternity in the game industry. GK should have been a dramatic step up. I'm sure there are reasons like they didn't want a flop like Cyberpunk and maybe they cut back on things to ship on other devices or to accommodate co-op. But this seems lack luster and its not due to simply "patch it later".

Anyways going to drop this. Hopefully they add more like classic batgirl suit.
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Re: Gotham Knights

Post by Femina »

Mr. X wrote: 1 month ago
Femina wrote: 1 month ago
I'm calm dun worry about it. Just confused why AK keeps being brought up as the game to emulate all of a sudden since, as previously mentioned, it's launch was awful.
Because the launch doesn't matter. 7 years is an eternity in the game industry. GK should have been a dramatic step up. I'm sure there are reasons like they didn't want a flop like Cyberpunk and maybe they cut back on things to ship on other devices or to accommodate co-op. But this seems lack luster and its not due to simply "patch it later".

Anyways going to drop this. Hopefully they add more like classic batgirl suit.
Launch does matter. IDK what to tell you. Cyberpunk 2077 is the poster child of why your launch matters. AK was the first 2077, but it managed to run fine on consoles so it didn't just completely faceplant like 2077 did.

I don't think 7 years is as long as you think it is anymore. Yes in the days of the NES seven years could mean the difference between 8 to 16 bit improving graphics 100%. That's GONE and has been for a loooooong time.

I mean they just RE-MADE 'The Last of Us' claiming it was to bring it up visually alongside TLoU2 which FRANKLY doesn't look THAT much better than TLoU1 which was 9 years ago and a lot of people called it out rightly as a redundant and unnecessary upgrade... there's rumors they're gonna remake Horizon Zero f'kn dawn to make it look incrementally marginally better than before! Leaps in gaming tech are slowing down. A LOT. It's part profiteering and lazy game design, but it's also in part that we're reaching deeper and deeper wells of computational limits. It's exponentially more expensive to double your computing power every single time... that's simple when you're doubling from $1 to $2.... 100-200.... 1000-2000... but when you're starting to talk 1 to 2 BILLION it starts to hit a wall. Doubling the graphics fidelity every other year was never a thing that was going to last forever, that was always a quirk of a brand new medium in rapid growth. Gaming is in its mid life crisis right now across the board.
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Re: Gotham Knights

Post by Dogfish »

I picked this up on Black Friday sale because it turns out that, because it's an RPG, it has mods (Arkham Knight did too tbh, although nothing particularly major other than character swaps).

Not sure how many it will end up with, but it's still a pretty cool thing to have. I hope it'll be enough to keep it interesting for a good while.
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