The Rings of Power

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Femina
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Re: The Rings of Power

Post by Femina »

Mr. X wrote: 3 weeks ago
Femina wrote: 3 weeks ago ANYHOW, baring the possibility that somebody would like to take pity and directly label Mr. X or anyone else a racist to satisfy his victim complex and have the whole website locked down, I'd say it's past time we resumed the actual discussion about this show.
Yup I knew that was where this was going. Disagreement = you're racist.
BTW suffer being called a pedo relentlessly and see how that works out for you.

Victim complex? like turning ANY CRITICISM of the show into "I'm being attacked cause of my race".
If you read between the lines I think you'll realize I was actually calling you a big baby. Whether or not that's better or worse is for you to decide.

This is really a new low for you Mr. X. I've had probably fifty arguments with you on this website over the last ten years....... but I honestly can't recall if you've ever quite taken this DENSE a stance before. It's like I asked the room "Apples or Oranges?" and you've spent the last half a page going "WHAT THE FUCK DID YOU SAY ABOUT BANANAS!?" and no matter how emphatically anyone directs you to the original question, all you will do is scream "BANANAS!" at the top of your lungs. So be it.

In other words: I see you STILL haven't read the post of mine you've been bitching about nonstop for days xD. For convienance sake I'll just go ahead and repost it so you can continue to ignore the contents and rant about whatever the hell you'd like. Edit: I've gone ahead and underlined a point that you in particular may wish to take to heart for future arguments!
They freaked out when one of the dwarves and one of the elves was revealed to be black. But you know what? A weak argument can actually be made from a 'Tolkien purist' perspective that 'may' be interpreted to not be just racism... so that's an argument I don't personally levy at people personally. My own perspective in this sphere comes down to the economics of the medium. RoP is THE most expensive project... probably EVER across entertainment mediums and distributing its acting budget SOLELY to white folk under the umbrella of remaining 'pure to the material' is a weak platform economically... but an argument actually exists there that has the potential to not just be racism. I personally would have set it in a period where the Southrons and Easterlings were more present and sympathetic... but that's me. Maybe analytics indicated that the forging of the rings is simply the best place to pick up to get a popular audience response idfk.


The SEXISM however is clear and evident and unlike veiled racism I can actually PROVE this. POINT BLANK.

You see. What you do is, you take a certain repetitive platform of behavior presented 'en masse' as a basic observation. "Galadriel in armor is a travesty!!!!!" as reported by some Dozen youtube videos and web articles DAILY for months. You occasionally must recognize that a platform that 'women in armor doesn't make sense historically' from that history buff sort of person may not actually be racist... but doesn't apply here because its FANTASY and elves are superhuman. So that basically leaves your political or otherwise folk terrified of 'woke' media who claim they are merely 'tired of seeing the 'action gal' as the sole interpretation of women and that we are losing the 'good ol' days of the lovely damsel' or whatever and you know what? ORDINARILY, as much as one might suspect or even 'know' in their gut that the arguments are put forth in bad faith to mask a flood of sexism... they are putting forward an argument that has the potential of being real concerns and not JUST based entirely on their innate sexism so you have to swallow your bile and grit your teeth. BUT NOT TODAY

The problem HERE is that it's all easy to disprove. We KNOW these arguments as presented against GALADRIEL in particular are presented in BAD FAITH because all of these people are bitching from a platform that pushes a particular political slant... AND none of them have any idea what they are actually talking about. You see, they've all SEEN Lord of the Rings. They saw Galadriel as a wise old woman at the end of the timeline, garbed in sleek long gowns and behaving with majestic ladylike conduct... but none of them appear privy to the facts that canonically, in the actual factual literature AS WRITTEN by Tolkien himself, Galadriel was historically an action girl who left her home with the adventurous sort of elves that wanted to hunt the Silmarils and fight Morgoth, that she absolutely fought in DOZENS of battles both before AND after she ever studied the greater magics under Melian the Maia.

In other words, Galadriel in armor makes perfect sense in this period of Middle-Earth. 'WOKE' or not, it was woke coming on FIFTY YEARS AGO when the Silmarillion was written and that's something you should KNOW before you go pushing your sexist diatribe about how unjust it is that such a 'seminal staple of ladylike goodness as THE Galadriel has been besmirched by these woke creators!!!! Galadriel wears dresses!? These creators must just hate dresses! Tolkien would be rolling in his grave if he saw Galadriel in ARMOR!?"

The literature is something you should familiarize yourself with before you try to use it for disingenuous talking points to push your political agenda lest you accidentally throw back the curtain of your actual intent. It reveals the truth behind EVERYONE who has ever posted an article or video about the tragedy against poor man Tolkein that these creators have dared to besmirch Galadriel's ladyness in this way. It calls them ALL out because even if they are only reporting what they've heard reported elsewhere and didn't intend to do it themselves, they saw a talking point for their agenda and immediately plugged it without doing any research at all. To them, it's a convenient angle to lazily push their shit from... but this time it was a talking point with a BULLSHIT tracker attached to it fifty fucking years ago!

Adu.
You see it's about SEXism Mr. X. Say it with me.... SEXism. Specifically about the sexism that's proved by platforms who are misrepresenting the original literature in order to push their agendas. Note that I've clearly NOT attacked anyone with problems about racial casting... funny that huh?
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Re: The Rings of Power

Post by Dogfish »

ivandobsky wrote: 3 weeks ago cheer up guys. :)
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See I must be insane but I really like the return to Tolkien's vision of Galadriel as a warrior queen. He envisioned her as the mightiest of all the elves, describing her as like an Amazon. Key part there is not, "She's pretty handy with a sword that Galadriel." Literally the mightiest of all the elves. Like she's the elf that turns up and all the orcs are suddenly all, "Meat's off the menu boys, in fact it was never on the menu, this isn't even a Wendy's. What's an orc?"

Which I am down with.

The dirty little secret is in LOTR all of the essentially ageless characters are total badasses. Gandalf kills a Balrog with a sword and nobody is out here saying that he shouldn't be able to do that because wizards don't have strength and dexterity as prime requisites.

Also I like that in ROP we see Galadriel and Elrond as this odd but complementary couple, him a charming nerd, she a determined soldier. It is legit cute as fuck.
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Re: The Rings of Power

Post by Femina »

Dogfish wrote: 3 weeks ago
ivandobsky wrote: 3 weeks ago cheer up guys. :)
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See I must be insane but I really like the return to Tolkien's vision of Galadriel as a warrior queen. He envisioned her as the mightiest of all the elves, describing her as like an Amazon. Key part there is not, "She's pretty handy with a sword that Galadriel." Literally the mightiest of all the elves. Like she's the elf that turns up and all the orcs are suddenly all, "Meat's off the menu boys, in fact it was never on the menu, this isn't even a Wendy's. What's an orc?"

Which I am down with.

The dirty little secret is in LOTR all of the essentially ageless characters are total badasses. Gandalf kills a Balrog with a sword and nobody is out here saying that he shouldn't be able to do that because wizards don't have strength and dexterity as prime requisites.

Also I like that in ROP we see Galadriel and Elrond as this odd but complementary couple, him a charming nerd, she a determined soldier. It is legit cute as fuck.
It's also relatively lore accurate considering what they have the rights for. Galadriel wasn't always a powerful 'witch' mage whose woods evil feared to tread in. In her youth she was described by Tolkien himself to be of 'Amazon disposition' . NOW if I were to bring up any 'legit' complaints about Galadriel in this series, it's that the creators basically literally CANT delve into anything from the First Age due to rights issues... and technically yes, Galadriel should have already done a good deal of 'magic' training under Melian nearish the end of the First Age... but to be blunt we have yet to determine if Galadriel is incapable of using any witchy light magic or not since her not using magic as yet isn't proof that she CAN'T use it... all we know really is that her swordsmanship is up to snuff as you'd expect of somebody of 'Amazon disposition' and she doesn't go to battle in a dress (like only a complete moron would) in this age where her magic isn't literally so strong that orcs piss themselves in her presence...

Galadriel went to battle OFTEN in the first and second age. All them 'Galadriel hated war' BS you hear flying around did not extend to the PURE EVIL of Morgoth and Sauron. She disliked wars between the peoples of middle earth, she had no qualms whatsoever about spanking orcs (nobody did. Sympathy for Orcs would be sort of like agonizing over killing Cancer). It's also not odd AT ALL that she didn't bother to inform Frodo of her thousands of years of history during his short visit to Lothlorian. It'd be silly if she DID do that.
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Re: The Rings of Power

Post by Femina »

Four episodes in and I'm consistently either at an 'above average' level of enjoyment to occasional bouts of full on absorbed in the show. It's GOOD. It's not like the BEST EVER television... but it's not mediocre either. It's GOOD, and more importantly it's getting BETTER with each episode.
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Re: The Rings of Power

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I'm enjoying how it is allowing itself to have good characters. Like, there are folks in this show who are good people, and there's no shade of grey to them, they're not waiting for a chance to do a heel turn and kill everybody, they're just good folks with various plans that'll probably go very wrong. One of the tiring things about something like Game of Thrones was knowing that because it's grimdark everybody must fail, if it can go wrong it will go wrong, and so on. This is much more upbeat, and even if things do go horribly wrong, which I expect they will, it won't be because everybody was a sadistic incestuous weirdo.

Kind of refreshing, innit.

Particular example was the dwarf king talking with his son. Expected some sort of wildly destructive familial set-to, instead wisdom prevailed.
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Re: The Rings of Power

Post by NotUv2 »

Femina wrote: 2 weeks ago Four episodes in and I'm consistently either at an 'above average' level of enjoyment to occasional bouts of full on absorbed in the show. It's GOOD. It's not like the BEST EVER television... but it's not mediocre either. It's GOOD, and more importantly it's getting BETTER with each episode.
I was a bit lukewarm on it at first, but things have really picked up with the fourth episode in particular. It'll be interesting to see where they take it.
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Re: The Rings of Power

Post by shevek »

So I'm not paying super close attention to this controversy, but from what I understand there was some sort of political rally in Numenor? :)
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Re: The Rings of Power

Post by Dogfish »

Wasn't aware there was a controversy. Although to be fair the only news I've been able to get for the last week has been QUEEN DEAD BE SAD PEASANT.
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Re: The Rings of Power

Post by Damselbinder »

Ngl that scene was pretty cringe
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Re: The Rings of Power

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I didn't mind it but I can see why folks might think it was a bit on the nose. The arguments the guy was making were incredibly stupid, but then appeals to bigotry and xenophobia are inherently stupid. The stupids are the target audience, they don't want you to bring a Powerpoint presentation with a bunch of graphs.

It's sad that the elves gave the men of Numenor a bunch of upgrades to life expectancy and whatnot but couldn't make them smarter. Which I guess explains why they're almost all dead by the time of The Hobbit.
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Re: The Rings of Power

Post by Damselbinder »

I think aside from the fact that it was really on the nose I think it's also kind of obscured what Numenor's actual beef with the elves is.
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Re: The Rings of Power

Post by Femina »

Yeah just... I mean... What jobs do they think the Elves care about? They've had one elf in like two decades and she's OBVIOUSLY highborn and already expressed that she's like... a professional soldier.... do they think her real scheme is to pick up carpentry in Numenor square? I mean we're all guilty of thinking we're more important than we are from time to time, but Numenoreans apparently take the cake.

No controversy though? The scene even just ended with a politician walking by and going 'You're all being stupid. We're not stupid, so quit being stupid.' and that was the end of it.
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Re: The Rings of Power

Post by shevek »

Sorry, I meant the overall controversy about the show. Not that specific scene.

Anyway, here's a funny parody intro from 1/4 Black Garrett of the Friday Night Tights crew.
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Re: The Rings of Power

Post by NotUv2 »

Femina wrote: 1 week ago Yeah just... I mean... What jobs do they think the Elves care about? They've had one elf in like two decades and she's OBVIOUSLY highborn and already expressed that she's like... a professional soldier.... do they think her real scheme is to pick up carpentry in Numenor square? I mean we're all guilty of thinking we're more important than we are from time to time, but Numenoreans apparently take the cake.
Yeah "they're gonna take our jerbs" is a bit silly in-setting. I actually wonder if whoever wrote that scene was a Shadowrun player; that's how Humanis Policlub used to talk in Shadowrun games, where the fantasy races were stand-ins for marginalized human groups.

Envy of immortality should be more than enough, really; that's what happens in The Silmarillion. But then, the series can't actually directly use anything referenced in The Silmarillion, since they only have the rights to the LOTR trilogy and whatever it references in passing. Everything else has to be independently invented, which will probably explain weird stuff like that.
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Re: The Rings of Power

Post by Dogfish »

I guess we're going to find out what the beef is with Numenor. Seems to be a contentious issue within the kingdom itself and I suspect it was news to Galadriel too.

And yeah, taking the jerbs is dumb, but it's always a dumb issue that is going to come up for a mob like that. Nobody whipped up a racist mob with appeals to reason or practicality. First off is 'They are coming for your jobs' and following on from that is 'they are coming for your women'. The textbook is so old is was probably sitting under the first tree when the elves appeared.

As for general controversy, beyond the usual goblin hissing from the professionally outraged crowd about the existence of people who aren't white in a show with a giant fish monster in it I don't think there is any.
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Re: The Rings of Power

Post by Dogfish »

Weird to think there's only three episodes left, kind of figured this was going to be a one and done, but there's definitely a lot more to cover so there might have to be a lot more. I've really only just now started looking into what the story essentially needs to cover, and the second age is big.
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Re: The Rings of Power

Post by CJS »

Dogfish wrote: 1 week ago Weird to think there's only three episodes left, kind of figured this was going to be a one and done, but there's definitely a lot more to cover so there might have to be a lot more. I've really only just now started looking into what the story essentially needs to cover, and the second age is big.
I wish I had saved the link, but I read an article somewhere that mentioned they were planning more than one season.
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Re: The Rings of Power

Post by Femina »

they plan like five seasons or something. Yeah this is just the start.
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Re: The Rings of Power

Post by Dogfish »

Wow. That last episode was epic as fuck.
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