Dr Who has not learned its lesson

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Dr Who has not learned its lesson

Post by Dazzle1 »

https://www.msn.com/en-us/tv/news/docto ... da9b485ae2

The Doctor's sexuality of preferences is not suppose to be the focus of the show, it is suppose to be good stories.

The reason I hated Bill Potts it was more important that she was LGBT than being a good companion
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Re: Dr Who has not learned its lesson

Post by ivandobsky »

Not sure how Dr Who can get busy these days what with being in a position of power over everybody. Maybe he uses the time machine.
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Re: Dr Who has not learned its lesson

Post by Dogfish »

The thing with Russell T Davies is that he's probably the best Dr Who showrunner of the modern era, but if you put him in charge of something it's going to be gay as fuck. This isn't a case of people not learning lessons, this is what you get with Davies.

If anybody can make Dr Who a functioning, enjoyable, coherent TV show again, it's Davies. But you got to let the man make the shows he wants to make.
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Re: Dr Who has not learned its lesson

Post by cannonfodder »

Bring back John Barrowman as Jack Harkness every now and then and all can be forgiven.
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Re: Dr Who has not learned its lesson

Post by Dazzle1 »

Dogfish wrote: 1 month ago The thing with Russell T Davies is that he's probably the best Dr Who showrunner of the modern era, but if you put him in charge of something it's going to be gay as fuck. This isn't a case of people not learning lessons, this is what you get with Davies.

If anybody can make Dr Who a functioning, enjoyable, coherent TV show again, it's Davies. But you got to let the man make the shows he wants to make.
I agree that Davies is the best show runner of the modern era, but that sort of saying a recession is better than a depression. I think he had one season that was good and that was the season with Martha Jones, I would rate that better than say the Colin Baker era or the first season of Sylvester McKoy.
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Re: Dr Who has not learned its lesson

Post by Mr. X »

Like I said in other posts when people said Davies was coming on... what really changed. They won't stop. They certainly are not interested in money or ratings.
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Re: Dr Who has not learned its lesson

Post by tallyho »

Dr Who used to be a kids show about exploring the Universe with a friendly grandpa type character .
The modern iterations are all about will he or won't he bang his female companion. Throw in the Daleks and the Cybermen once a season just to keep the fan base happy. I stopped watching in season 2 when I realised it was becoming so formulaic that everything was being resolved with a flick of a switch in the last 5 mins of each episode.
Davies doesn't give a toss about the material, he just knew bringing a popular show back after 15 years would make it a partial hit straight off due to the big following it still had at conventions. He's imposing an adult agenda on a kids show.
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Re: Dr Who has not learned its lesson

Post by sneakly »

Daleks and possibly the cyber men are contractual obligations. I enjoyed the show until the matt Smith era, where the manic antics started to get worse. Amy Pond helped (nice legs and a pretty face never hurt).
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Re: Dr Who has not learned its lesson

Post by Dazzle1 »

tallyho wrote: 1 month ago Dr Who used to be a kids show about exploring the Universe with a friendly grandpa type character .
The modern iterations are all about will he or won't he bang his female companion. Throw in the Daleks and the Cybermen once a season just to keep the fan base happy. I stopped watching in season 2 when I realised it was becoming so formulaic that everything was being resolved with a flick of a switch in the last 5 mins of each episode.
Davies doesn't give a toss about the material, he just knew bringing a popular show back after 15 years would make it a partial hit straight off due to the big following it still had at conventions. He's imposing an adult agenda on a kids show.
In the third era, the show shifted to adults as well as children

As far as SHIP, my idea would be a threesome with both Romanas
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Re: Dr Who has not learned its lesson

Post by Damselbinder »

I don't think you even know what you want. I also think probably a few of you don't even watch the show. You just recycle talking points from Youtube twats whingeing about everything.

Case in point, Bill's sexuality is mentioned in... maybe four of her episodes? And in most of those it's because she has a love interest and that love interest was a woman. In one case to do a pretty amusing joke where a bunch of Romans just didn't get the idea of having a sexual orientation other than "if it's hot I fuck it".

"Dr Who has not learned its lesson." Yeah, having gay characters and stuff, that was the problem with the Chibnall era. Just that. Not the idiot writing.
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Re: Dr Who has not learned its lesson

Post by tallyho »

Davies has a house in my village so experience was my frame of reference for his indifference.
I don't do social media and YouTube , but I too can be a twat without them.
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Re: Dr Who has not learned its lesson

Post by tallyho »

The 'too' wasn't a reference to you DB but the YouTube twats you mentioned
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Re: Dr Who has not learned its lesson

Post by Mr. X »

Damselbinder wrote: 1 month ago "Dr Who has not learned its lesson." Yeah, having gay characters and stuff, that was the problem with the Chibnall era. Just that. Not the idiot writing.
Ah the old innocent "its just a gay character" mantra.

Its not that its a gay character. Its about beating the audience over the head with it and making the episodes about that.

Its exactly like sticking God messages into shows like the old days. Literally no difference.

And the irony here is the people who promote this activism are NOT helping any group. They are alienating those groups by making them annoying. The worst thing to ever happen to these groups are the issue hijacking activists who use these people as meat shields.

White savior complex
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Re: Dr Who has not learned its lesson

Post by Damselbinder »

Mr. X wrote: 1 month ago
Damselbinder wrote: 1 month ago "Dr Who has not learned its lesson." Yeah, having gay characters and stuff, that was the problem with the Chibnall era. Just that. Not the idiot writing.
Ah the old innocent "its just a gay character" mantra.

Its not that its a gay character. Its about beating the audience over the head with it and making the episodes about that.

Its exactly like sticking God messages into shows like the old days. Literally no difference.

And the irony here is the people who promote this activism are NOT helping any group. They are alienating those groups by making them annoying. The worst thing to ever happen to these groups are the issue hijacking activists who use these people as meat shields.

White savior complex
https://www.health.com/mind-body/health ... or-complex
Oh yeah. That's the worst thing. That's DEFINITELY the worst thing. The worst thing that has EVER HAPPENED to marginalised groups is people making sci-fi programs featuring fictional characters that belong to those groups.

What a charmed life you must have led to have a perspective like that.
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Re: Dr Who has not learned its lesson

Post by Mr. X »

Damselbinder wrote: 1 month ago Oh yeah. That's the worst thing. That's DEFINITELY the worst thing. The worst thing that has EVER HAPPENED to marginalised groups is people making sci-fi programs featuring fictional characters that belong to those groups.

What a charmed life you must have led to have a perspective like that.
Featuring or using them to beat up on others.

Sorry but you're not Jake Sully from Avatar betraying the humans to save the blue people. 1980s are over with. Using some group WHO NEVER ASKED YOU FOR HELP as a meat baseball bat to beat up on non-existent baddies is not helping that group.
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Re: Dr Who has not learned its lesson

Post by Damselbinder »

Mr. X wrote: 1 month ago
Damselbinder wrote: 1 month ago Oh yeah. That's the worst thing. That's DEFINITELY the worst thing. The worst thing that has EVER HAPPENED to marginalised groups is people making sci-fi programs featuring fictional characters that belong to those groups.

What a charmed life you must have led to have a perspective like that.
Featuring or using them to beat up on others.

Sorry but you're not Jake Sully from Avatar betraying the humans to save the blue people. 1980s are over with. Using some group WHO NEVER ASKED YOU FOR HELP as a meat baseball bat to beat up on non-existent baddies is not helping that group.
I swear to God you just hear that something progressive is appearing in something and you pat your belly about how enlightened you are and recycle your standard talking points. You have absolutely no idea how Russell T. Davies writes. You have absolutely no idea the way that a Doctor being openly gay is going to be included in the program. The mere fact that you might have something to be angry about is enough for you.

Who's beating up on anyone? Oh no a sci-fi character is gay! What group? What help? Oh, and by the way, Russell T. Davies is gay.
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Re: Dr Who has not learned its lesson

Post by Femina »

Mr. X wrote: 1 month ago
Damselbinder wrote: 1 month ago Oh yeah. That's the worst thing. That's DEFINITELY the worst thing. The worst thing that has EVER HAPPENED to marginalised groups is people making sci-fi programs featuring fictional characters that belong to those groups.

What a charmed life you must have led to have a perspective like that.
Featuring or using them to beat up on others.

Sorry but you're not Jake Sully from Avatar betraying the humans to save the blue people. 1980s are over with. Using some group WHO NEVER ASKED YOU FOR HELP as a meat baseball bat to beat up on non-existent baddies is not helping that group.
You're beating us over the head with your anti-SJW messaging, smudged political attack slurs, and kindergarten 'punchbowl' metaphors near continuously? Practice what you preach.

You're right. The 80's are done. You aren't Chuck Norris karate kicking the wicked Mexican Drug Cartel away from you're civil liberties.
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Re: Dr Who has not learned its lesson

Post by sneakly »

Mr. X wrote: 1 month ago
Damselbinder wrote: 1 month ago "Dr Who has not learned its lesson." Yeah, having gay characters and stuff, that was the problem with the Chibnall era. Just that. Not the idiot writing.
Ah the old innocent "its just a gay character" mantra.

Its not that its a gay character. Its about beating the audience over the head with it and making the episodes about that.

Its exactly like sticking God messages into shows like the old days. Literally no difference.

And the irony here is the people who promote this activism are NOT helping any group. They are alienating those groups by making them annoying. The worst thing to ever happen to these groups are the issue hijacking activists who use these people as meat shields.

White savior complex
https://www.health.com/mind-body/health ... or-complex
Ah, going to disagree here. Being older and having a fixed/ ossified point of view, you find annoying. It’s different and glaringly obvious to you. For a 12 or 13 year old kid, it has never been anything else. I need to get used to the new gender pronouns like it’s a new language. My kids don’t kids use them correctly and fluidly. My problem was the 30 year head start using them differently. The problem is mine, not theirs.

I notice no one mentions how cringeworthy the Amy/Rory storylines are or the Dr/River. Why, they have a lot of the same defects, but they aren’t gay so you don’t notice or comment on them as much… toss in a couple of gays and you start squirming in your seat.
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Re: Dr Who has not learned its lesson

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Captain Jack was gay and, if I recall correctly he and the Doctor may or may not have…
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Re: Dr Who has not learned its lesson

Post by Femina »

sneakly wrote: 1 month ago
Mr. X wrote: 1 month ago
Damselbinder wrote: 1 month ago "Dr Who has not learned its lesson." Yeah, having gay characters and stuff, that was the problem with the Chibnall era. Just that. Not the idiot writing.
Ah the old innocent "its just a gay character" mantra.

Its not that its a gay character. Its about beating the audience over the head with it and making the episodes about that.

Its exactly like sticking God messages into shows like the old days. Literally no difference.

And the irony here is the people who promote this activism are NOT helping any group. They are alienating those groups by making them annoying. The worst thing to ever happen to these groups are the issue hijacking activists who use these people as meat shields.

White savior complex
https://www.health.com/mind-body/health ... or-complex
Ah, going to disagree here. Being older and having a fixed/ ossified point of view, you find annoying. It’s different and glaringly obvious to you. For a 12 or 13 year old kid, it has never been anything else. I need to get used to the new gender pronouns like it’s a new language. My kids don’t kids use them correctly and fluidly. My problem was the 30 year head start using them differently. The problem is mine, not theirs.

I notice no one mentions how cringeworthy the Amy/Rory storylines are or the Dr/River. Why, they have a lot of the same defects, but they aren’t gay so you don’t notice or comment on them as much… toss in a couple of gays and you start squirming in your seat.
Precicely. A bland cis/white character is at worst 'a nothing character' that vanishes in the breeze. A bland LGBT character is the 'worst thing that's ever happened to this series EVER!!!' and has at least thirty youtube videos frothing at the mouth about them from the USUAL suspects who all claim foul anytime anything else has an agenda of any sort.
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Re: Dr Who has not learned its lesson

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Femina wrote: 1 month ago Precicely. A bland cis/white character is at worst 'a nothing character' that vanishes in the breeze. A bland LGBT character is the 'worst thing that's ever happened to this series EVER!!!' and had at least thirty youtube videos frothing at the mouth about them.
No one intentionally puts a white guy (no such thing as "cis") into a show cause its a white guy then constantly reminds the audience he's a white guy to earn virtue points. We old liberals got sick of that shit in the 1970s with bland white heroes and complained a lot about it.

And BTW read women's erotica like romance novels. Christine Gray wasn't Pee Wee Herman and I don't see Danny Devito on the cover of those romance novels or the "guy" in those Hallmark movies. And women didn't complain when Hemsworth went full monty in Love and Thunder or Cavill walked around shirtless for 25 minutes in Justice League. Sure a lot of "I want manly men" going on right there. But by all means lets replace them with trans men... I'm sure women wouldn't mind.

Sorry but not everything is universal property and not everything is interchangeable.

You're not fighting conservatives. You have at least two groups against you and one of those groups KNOWS YOU cause we USED TO BE YOU in the 1980s.
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Re: Dr Who has not learned its lesson

Post by Damselbinder »

Mr. X wrote: 1 month ago
Femina wrote: 1 month ago Precicely. A bland cis/white character is at worst 'a nothing character' that vanishes in the breeze. A bland LGBT character is the 'worst thing that's ever happened to this series EVER!!!' and had at least thirty youtube videos frothing at the mouth about them.
No one intentionally puts a white guy (no such thing as "cis") into a show cause its a white guy then constantly reminds the audience he's a white guy to earn virtue points. We old liberals got sick of that shit in the 1970s with bland white heroes and complained a lot about it.

And BTW read women's erotica like romance novels. Christine Gray wasn't Pee Wee Herman and I don't see Danny Devito on the cover of those romance novels or the "guy" in those Hallmark movies. And women didn't complain when Hemsworth went full monty in Love and Thunder or Cavill walked around shirtless for 25 minutes in Justice League. Sure a lot of "I want manly men" going on right there. But by all means lets replace them with trans men... I'm sure women wouldn't mind.

Sorry but not everything is universal property and not everything is interchangeable.

You're not fighting conservatives. You have at least two groups against you and one of those groups KNOWS YOU cause we USED TO BE YOU in the 1980s.
You're still talking about Dr Who, remember? Of which, I imagine, you've never seen a single episode. You don't understand what you're complaining about. You just know that people are angry and gays are involved so it's bad.

Explain to me why it's incompatible with Dr Who for the Doctor - a member of a race of shapeshifting aliens whose bodies and identities radically alter in explosive fire when they're mortally wounded - to be openly gay? My guess is you will be completely incapable of doing this because you don't even really understand what Dr Who is.
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Re: Dr Who has not learned its lesson

Post by Mr. X »

Damselbinder wrote: 1 month ago
a member of a race of shapeshifting aliens whose bodies and identities radically alter in explosive fire when they're mortally wounded
That is not what they are according to cannon. They are not shape shifting.
Why on the show is it NECESSARY for the guy to be ANYTHING? I also don't want him raging straight either. JUST THE DOCTOR exploring and solving issues not some ACTIVIST.

"What's wrong with " Now you expose the real motivation. Stuff a cat into a bag of dogs then be shocked a fight breaks out.

Are you rubbing away the thin veneer of politeness to expose the hidden bigotry in the room. That's so 1980. Adorable. And I bet you think you're a hero for doing it. "Hey lets replace characters and watch the "normies" all freak out then hit them with "What wrong with..."" Hee Hee Hee Hee, that's so clever. :giggle:
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Re: Dr Who has not learned its lesson

Post by Damselbinder »

Mr. X wrote: 1 month ago
Damselbinder wrote: 1 month ago
a member of a race of shapeshifting aliens whose bodies and identities radically alter in explosive fire when they're mortally wounded
That is not what they are according to cannon. They are not shape shifting.
Why on the show is it NECESSARY for the guy to be ANYTHING? I also don't want him raging straight either. JUST THE DOCTOR exploring and solving issues not some ACTIVIST.

"What's wrong with " Now you expose the real motivation. Stuff a cat into a bag of dogs then be shocked a fight breaks out.

Are you rubbing away the thin veneer of politeness to expose the hidden bigotry in the room. That's so 1980. Adorable. And I bet you think you're a hero for doing it. "Hey lets replace characters and watch the "normies" all freak out then hit them with "What wrong with..."" Hee Hee Hee Hee, that's so clever. :giggle:
Yeah you're so correct that's why I started this thread and -

- oh right.



Also - they're not shapeshifting? Are you being real with me? You're bitching about this and you don't even know that the Doctor regenerates?
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Re: Dr Who has not learned its lesson

Post by Femina »

Mr. X wrote: 1 month ago
Femina wrote: 1 month ago Precicely. A bland cis/white character is at worst 'a nothing character' that vanishes in the breeze. A bland LGBT character is the 'worst thing that's ever happened to this series EVER!!!' and had at least thirty youtube videos frothing at the mouth about them.
No one intentionally puts a white guy (no such thing as "cis") into a show cause its a white guy then constantly reminds the audience he's a white guy to earn virtue points. We old liberals got sick of that shit in the 1970s with bland white heroes and complained a lot about it.
That's not even remotely true. Not even from the DAWN of Cinema itself where acting was primarily a feminine undertaking, the dudes got annoyed and hijacked the industry... not making any judgments here... cinema shouldn't be inherently masculine or feminine... but there it is at the FOUNDATION of the industry. I suppose it's true that there was never a wave of 'look at me I'm white!' or 'Look at me I'm Male!' and I honestly AGREE that sort of writing is pretty cringe no matter the race or gender. I prefer subtlety as much as the next cinema buff..... but there was still an overbearing amount of cis white male heroes in cinema every year and the further back you go the more unintentionally intentional it is.
And BTW read women's erotica like romance novels. Christine Gray wasn't Pee Wee Herman and I don't see Danny Devito on the cover of those romance novels or the "guy" in those Hallmark movies. And women didn't complain when Hemsworth went full monty in Love and Thunder or Cavill walked around shirtless for 25 minutes in Justice League. Sure a lot of "I want manly men" going on right there. But by all means lets replace them with trans men... I'm sure women wouldn't mind.
I don't know what the purpose of this paragraph is but to rant about something. There's no risk whatsoever that trans men and women are about to flush out the cis folk forever and completely. That's conspiracy theory shit. Representation is what it is, it doesn't dictate what you have to find attractive. (The old BS that 'woke' folk demand you find trans men sexually attractive is a fallacy invented in your own minds. You can be attracted, or not, to whoever you want... you just don't get to dictate who anyone else is or what their opportunities are.
Sorry but not everything is universal property and not everything is interchangeable.

You're not fighting conservatives. You have at least two groups against you and one of those groups KNOWS YOU cause we USED TO BE YOU in the 1980s.
Nothing to discuss here. No point. Good day sir.
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Re: Dr Who has not learned its lesson

Post by Dazzle1 »

Damselbinder wrote: 1 month ago
Mr. X wrote: 1 month ago
Femina wrote: 1 month ago Precicely. A bland cis/white character is at worst 'a nothing character' that vanishes in the breeze. A bland LGBT character is the 'worst thing that's ever happened to this series EVER!!!' and had at least thirty youtube videos frothing at the mouth about them.
No one intentionally puts a white guy (no such thing as "cis") into a show cause its a white guy then constantly reminds the audience he's a white guy to earn virtue points. We old liberals got sick of that shit in the 1970s with bland white heroes and complained a lot about it.

And BTW read women's erotica like romance novels. Christine Gray wasn't Pee Wee Herman and I don't see Danny Devito on the cover of those romance novels or the "guy" in those Hallmark movies. And women didn't complain when Hemsworth went full monty in Love and Thunder or Cavill walked around shirtless for 25 minutes in Justice League. Sure a lot of "I want manly men" going on right there. But by all means lets replace them with trans men... I'm sure women wouldn't mind.

Sorry but not everything is universal property and not everything is interchangeable.

You're not fighting conservatives. You have at least two groups against you and one of those groups KNOWS YOU cause we USED TO BE YOU in the 1980s.
You're still talking about Dr Who, remember? Of which, I imagine, you've never seen a single episode. You don't understand what you're complaining about. You just know that people are angry and gays are involved so it's bad.

Explain to me why it's incompatible with Dr Who for the Doctor - a member of a race of shapeshifting aliens whose bodies and identities radically alter in explosive fire when they're mortally wounded - to be openly gay? My guess is you will be completely incapable of doing this because you don't even really understand what Dr Who is.
It's not being openly gay or being openly het, it's having that as a focus. Why did Gatwa have to even bring it up? We have never really seen any of the major Time Lords express their sexuality.

James Kirk the biggest womanizer in the history of sci fi television, never said in the middle of an episode; "lets go to bed hot alien babe"
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Re: Dr Who has not learned its lesson

Post by Femina »

Dazzle1 wrote: 1 month ago
Damselbinder wrote: 1 month ago
Mr. X wrote: 1 month ago
Femina wrote: 1 month ago Precicely. A bland cis/white character is at worst 'a nothing character' that vanishes in the breeze. A bland LGBT character is the 'worst thing that's ever happened to this series EVER!!!' and had at least thirty youtube videos frothing at the mouth about them.
No one intentionally puts a white guy (no such thing as "cis") into a show cause its a white guy then constantly reminds the audience he's a white guy to earn virtue points. We old liberals got sick of that shit in the 1970s with bland white heroes and complained a lot about it.

And BTW read women's erotica like romance novels. Christine Gray wasn't Pee Wee Herman and I don't see Danny Devito on the cover of those romance novels or the "guy" in those Hallmark movies. And women didn't complain when Hemsworth went full monty in Love and Thunder or Cavill walked around shirtless for 25 minutes in Justice League. Sure a lot of "I want manly men" going on right there. But by all means lets replace them with trans men... I'm sure women wouldn't mind.

Sorry but not everything is universal property and not everything is interchangeable.

You're not fighting conservatives. You have at least two groups against you and one of those groups KNOWS YOU cause we USED TO BE YOU in the 1980s.
You're still talking about Dr Who, remember? Of which, I imagine, you've never seen a single episode. You don't understand what you're complaining about. You just know that people are angry and gays are involved so it's bad.

Explain to me why it's incompatible with Dr Who for the Doctor - a member of a race of shapeshifting aliens whose bodies and identities radically alter in explosive fire when they're mortally wounded - to be openly gay? My guess is you will be completely incapable of doing this because you don't even really understand what Dr Who is.
It's not being openly gay or being openly het, it's having that as a focus. Why did Gatwa have to even bring it up? We have never really seen any of the major Time Lords express their sexuality.

James Kirk the biggest womanizer in the history of sci fi television, never said in the middle of an episode; "lets go to bed hot alien babe"
We've seen Doctors show clear attraction to characters. In essence that is the basic principle in film of expressing sexuality. My perspective would simply be 'the Doctor is almost certainly bisexual' (in fact I'd say Time Lords in general would probably all ascribe to being bisexual, while current 'generations' of themselves might be more likely to ascribe to one sex or the other incidentally, but the 'entities' in general as beings that are continually reinventing themselves as different 'but the same' it only makes SENSE they'd be bisexual.)

As for why he talked about it. It was NEIL PATRICK HARRIS who brought it up... and he was probably ASKED, what with being a famous homosexual in Hollywood and all it probably comes up in Interviews more often than it does with straight folk.
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Re: Dr Who has not learned its lesson

Post by Mr. X »

Femina wrote: 1 month ago
We've seen Doctors show clear attraction to characters.
Only till the recent shit. The Rose ark was also annoying. And it distracts from story telling. Its activism for activism sake. Put in some nonsense that looks like altruism then say "oh you don't like it... you must be phobic" Its fundamentally bullying using a marginalized group as the excuse.

Hey by all means have another time lord that's gay. No issue there. Go right ahead. In fact WHY can't they make a new character? Why is it always flag planting on an established character.

And speaking of Kirk, when will he be retconned as a a trans woman... just curious. Is that in the "plan"?
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Re: Dr Who has not learned its lesson

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Re: Dr Who has not learned its lesson

Post by sneakly »

Mr. X wrote: 1 month ago
Femina wrote: 1 month ago
We've seen Doctors show clear attraction to characters.
Only till the recent shit. The Rose ark was also annoying. And it distracts from story telling. Its activism for activism sake. Put in some nonsense that looks like altruism then say "oh you don't like it... you must be phobic" Its fundamentally bullying using a marginalized group as the excuse.

Hey by all means have another time lord that's gay. No issue there. Go right ahead. In fact WHY can't they make a new character? Why is it always flag planting on an established character.

And speaking of Kirk, when will he be retconned as a a trans woman... just curious. Is that in the "plan"?
The Rose arc was annoying? This comes up after 27 posts? Could it be that a 20-something blonde having a mildly annoying story arc doesn’t warrant the same scrutiny that a annoying gay story line?

Buggery was still illegal in Scotland in 1980. Allen Turing, who did more to win the war than any other Briton, was chemically castrated in the 1950s. That the pendulum swung to the other side is really not that surprising.

Why not make a new character? THAT’S THE WHOLE POINT OF THE REGENERATION!!! They get a new body and new personality. Historically they change every few years. One of my regrets was when the Doctor’s Daughter flew off at the end of her episode, the never pursued it as a storyline. But she was a clone! My favorite Master was definitely Missy, (I particularly liked that she would tie Clara and string her up for no particular reason). That they never did any of these things canonically when homosexuality was illegal is not stupefyingly complicated.
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Re: Dr Who has not learned its lesson

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Dazzle1 wrote: 1 month ago https://www.msn.com/en-us/tv/news/docto ... da9b485ae2

The Doctor's sexuality of preferences is not suppose to be the focus of the show, it is suppose to be good stories.

The reason I hated Bill Potts it was more important that she was LGBT than being a good companion
The show, like all works of fiction, is about whatever the hell the creators want it to be about. When you are the showrunner, you'll get to make it the show you want it to be. Until then, you'll just have to settle for what you're given and decide if you want to watch it or not.

I'm guessing not.
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Re: Dr Who has not learned its lesson

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exxxidor456 wrote: 1 month ago The show, like all works of fiction, is about whatever the hell the creators want it to be about. When you are the showrunner, you'll get to make it the show you want it to be. Until then, you'll just have to settle for what you're given and decide if you want to watch it or not.

I'm guessing not.
Yet that is the point. If the show runner changes it enough the vast majority of fans LEAVE. The show makes no money. It dies. Now if they want to kill it then fine. But one cannot change the show then expect the fans to stay and watch it. NOT EVERYTHING IS INTERCHANGEABLE WITH EVERYTHING ELSE. The ratings are horrible and doubling down on the same strategies that drove fans away will bring in no more fans. I would imagine the show would also suck if it got all religious.

BTW where are all those woke viewers who will gladly support the show and buy are the merc? Oh... yeah that's right... worst fan base ever for any show. They never buy anything and never watch anything.

Its almost like a group, who never liked the show and never watched it, changed the show for what they wanted then never watch it just so they could shame fans who left with "you must be phobic" shame trips. Hmmm...
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Re: Dr Who has not learned its lesson

Post by exxxidor456 »

Mr. X wrote: 1 month ago
exxxidor456 wrote: 1 month ago The show, like all works of fiction, is about whatever the hell the creators want it to be about. When you are the showrunner, you'll get to make it the show you want it to be. Until then, you'll just have to settle for what you're given and decide if you want to watch it or not.

I'm guessing not.
Yet that is the point. If the show runner changes it enough the vast majority of fans LEAVE.
I suspect the vast majority of fans will stick around, and you never know, this might even attract some new ones.

And do you really believe that RTD will just make a show about the Doctor being gay? I think he's a bit too clever a writer for that, and also a massive Who fan, so he might write the occasional story about alien invaders, time travel and things like that too.

I've been watching Doctor Who since 1973 and it changed several times over the decades, even during the 'classic' run. Sometimes not for the better, but then, no-one ever forced me to watch it. I pretty much gave up on it when Bonnie Langford took over from Nicola Bryant, and I wasn't sad when the show finally got cancelled because I found Sylvester McCoy unwatchable.

If everyone stops watching it then yes, it will get cancelled again, but I think there are too many talented people involved for that to happen. I suppose the best thing to do is wait until we can actually see it, and then start praising or criticising it. Until then, let's give poor old Jodie a final chance to show what she can do. And let's hope Chibnall finally writes a decent script that gives her the opportunity...
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Re: Dr Who has not learned its lesson

Post by Damselbinder »

Mr. X wrote: 1 month ago
exxxidor456 wrote: 1 month ago The show, like all works of fiction, is about whatever the hell the creators want it to be about. When you are the showrunner, you'll get to make it the show you want it to be. Until then, you'll just have to settle for what you're given and decide if you want to watch it or not.

I'm guessing not.
Yet that is the point. If the show runner changes it enough the vast majority of fans LEAVE. The show makes no money. It dies. Now if they want to kill it then fine. But one cannot change the show then expect the fans to stay and watch it. NOT EVERYTHING IS INTERCHANGEABLE WITH EVERYTHING ELSE. The ratings are horrible and doubling down on the same strategies that drove fans away will bring in no more fans. I would imagine the show would also suck if it got all religious.

BTW where are all those woke viewers who will gladly support the show and buy are the merc? Oh... yeah that's right... worst fan base ever for any show. They never buy anything and never watch anything.

Its almost like a group, who never liked the show and never watched it, changed the show for what they wanted then never watch it just so they could shame fans who left with "you must be phobic" shame trips. Hmmm...
So if the new season's a ratings hit and a big success will you admit you were talking out of your hat?
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Re: Dr Who has not learned its lesson

Post by Femina »

Mr. X wrote: 1 month ago
exxxidor456 wrote: 1 month ago The show, like all works of fiction, is about whatever the hell the creators want it to be about. When you are the showrunner, you'll get to make it the show you want it to be. Until then, you'll just have to settle for what you're given and decide if you want to watch it or not.

I'm guessing not.
Yet that is the point. If the show runner changes it enough the vast majority of fans LEAVE. The show makes no money. It dies. Now if they want to kill it then fine. But one cannot change the show then expect the fans to stay and watch it. NOT EVERYTHING IS INTERCHANGEABLE WITH EVERYTHING ELSE. The ratings are horrible and doubling down on the same strategies that drove fans away will bring in no more fans. I would imagine the show would also suck if it got all religious.

BTW where are all those woke viewers who will gladly support the show and buy are the merc? Oh... yeah that's right... worst fan base ever for any show. They never buy anything and never watch anything.

Its almost like a group, who never liked the show and never watched it, changed the show for what they wanted then never watch it just so they could shame fans who left with "you must be phobic" shame trips. Hmmm...
The show would just have been cancelled if THIS was the case. This is an argument I see a lot. This whole 'doom and gloom' 'Oh no! No one is watching 'Woke Show X' it's super doomed!!!!'

And then it just keeps being on and gets renewed for another season anyway. If it wasn't making enough money that probably wouldn't be the case. That's not ALWAYS the case of course... Batwoman just recently got cancelled but like....... the show SUCKED and that didn't really have anything to do with 'woke'ness... it was just bad......... but you know what else was bad? The Flash! And it went on and on and on and on! Nobody knows the golden formula for what makes something work. You can make educated guesses... but there's always gonna be a side order of luck in the pie as to if it reaches anybody or not.
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Re: Dr Who has not learned its lesson

Post by tallyho »

Everybody knows the magic formula for success, and it's tits and ass.
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Re: Dr Who has not learned its lesson

Post by batgirl1969 »

tallyho wrote: 1 month ago Everybody knows the magic formula for success, and it's tits and ass.
Boobs & Butts!!!
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Re: Dr Who has not learned its lesson

Post by sneakly »

batgirl1969 wrote: 1 month ago
tallyho wrote: 1 month ago Everybody knows the magic formula for success, and it's tits and ass.
Boobs & Butts!!!
A cute butt in tight jeans can fix a lot o plot deficiencies. Daisy Duke’s ass crack carried The Dukes of Hazzard for six years and Pamela Anderson’s tits not only kept her head above water but buoyed every show she was ever cast in.
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Re: Dr Who has not learned its lesson

Post by Mr. X »

batgirl1969 wrote: 1 month ago
tallyho wrote: 1 month ago Everybody knows the magic formula for success, and it's tits and ass.
Boobs & Butts!!!
So lets say that happens. Lets say there's a rabid group who demands boobs and butts in a show. The show complies. Then these people don't watch the show. They don't buy the merc. THE NUMBERS GO DOWN BADLY. So the show tries to remove the boobs and butts and the same people scream murder and won't allow them to remove the content. What do you make of that crowd? Is that really fans... or something else?

This is not just that groups fault. Add to this the show producers seem to HATE the previous fan base for some reason. So they won't switch the content even IF the numbers would go up. The show is effectively going to die.

Note Dr. Who is an iconic show. Its a pillar that drives through nearly 6 decades of culture connecting with a theme. It will be in reruns so every child will see it. Young and old know it.
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Re: Dr Who has not learned its lesson

Post by Damselbinder »

Mr. X wrote: 1 month ago
batgirl1969 wrote: 1 month ago
tallyho wrote: 1 month ago Everybody knows the magic formula for success, and it's tits and ass.
Boobs & Butts!!!
So lets say that happens. Lets say there's a rabid group who demands boobs and butts in a show. The show complies. Then these people don't watch the show. They don't buy the merc. THE NUMBERS GO DOWN BADLY. So the show tries to remove the boobs and butts and the same people scream murder and won't allow them to remove the content. What do you make of that crowd? Is that really fans... or something else?

This is not just that groups fault. Add to this the show producers seem to HATE the previous fan base for some reason. So they won't switch the content even IF the numbers would go up. The show is effectively going to die.

Note Dr. Who is an iconic show. Its a pillar that drives through nearly 6 decades of culture connecting with a theme. It will be in reruns so every child will see it. Young and old know it.
Vague nonsense again. You clearly know fuck-all about Dr Who.
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Re: Dr Who has not learned its lesson

Post by Femina »

Mr. X wrote: 1 month ago
batgirl1969 wrote: 1 month ago
tallyho wrote: 1 month ago Everybody knows the magic formula for success, and it's tits and ass.
Boobs & Butts!!!
So lets say that happens. Lets say there's a rabid group who demands boobs and butts in a show. The show complies. Then these people don't watch the show. They don't buy the merc. THE NUMBERS GO DOWN BADLY. So the show tries to remove the boobs and butts and the same people scream murder and won't allow them to remove the content. What do you make of that crowd? Is that really fans... or something else?

This is not just that groups fault. Add to this the show producers seem to HATE the previous fan base for some reason. So they won't switch the content even IF the numbers would go up. The show is effectively going to die.

Note Dr. Who is an iconic show. Its a pillar that drives through nearly 6 decades of culture connecting with a theme. It will be in reruns so every child will see it. Young and old know it.
This sort of behavior isn't happening on any sort of effective scale. MOST human beings don't waste their time being overly concerned about media they don't enjoy. If Dr. Who wants to be the T&A show and it pushes viewers away... then nine times out of ten those viewers are GONE. They aren't looking for information doggedly about whether or not there's still T&A polluting the show anymore... meanwhile if you're rabidly clicking refresh to MAKE SURE there's still T&A in Dr. Who... then you're GONNA WATCH THE SHOW as long as it's got this thing you're looking for... you just ARE. There may be like .05% of any fanbase that's behaving the way you seem to be worried that EVERYONE is.

Let me just state for the record here... Alt right, far left, we're all still human beings and subject to the same issues of attention span. Activist behavior of the sort you're talking about requires a TRUE EFFORT of willfully pushing aside your desire to move on to something enjoyable, and you'd better believe most of them are keeping up on the shit they love and the shit they're complaining about. It is true that some people ENJOY the activism to a point, but no one's is gonna stand around FOREVER waiting to pounce on Dr. Who the INSTANT it discontinues T&A (or implements it for that matter) for longer than a couple of months, much less indefinitely over multiple Doctor regenerations.
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Re: Dr Who has not learned its lesson

Post by sneakly »

Mr. X wrote: 1 month ago
batgirl1969 wrote: 1 month ago
tallyho wrote: 1 month ago Everybody knows the magic formula for success, and it's tits and ass.
Boobs & Butts!!!
So lets say that happens. Lets say there's a rabid group who demands boobs and butts in a show. The show complies. Then these people don't watch the show. They don't buy the merc. THE NUMBERS GO DOWN BADLY. So the show tries to remove the boobs and butts and the same people scream murder and won't allow them to remove the content. What do you make of that crowd? Is that really fans... or something else?

This is not just that groups fault. Add to this the show producers seem to HATE the previous fan base for some reason. So they won't switch the content even IF the numbers would go up. The show is effectively going to die.

Note Dr. Who is an iconic show. Its a pillar that drives through nearly 6 decades of culture connecting with a theme. It will be in reruns so every child will see it. Young and old know it.
The current iteration of Dr Who has been around SEVENTEEN YEARS. The idea that the Dr could be gender fluid since ‘08, that was fifteen years years ago. Leela was getting tied up in a loincloth minidress back in the 1970s. You seem to be arguing that fan service shouldn’t exist. Not every companion needs to be a shaggable piece of ass, but I don’t think it out of the question.

Donna Noble was arguably one of the best companions ever, but so were Rose and Sarah Jane. Uninteresting characters get written out fairly quickly. That I am not watching Jodie Whittaker as Dr Who doesn’t mean others aren’t. I was devout watcher of the reboot from ‘05 to about ‘15. My kids stopped watching with me and access became less convenient. A string of blah storylines killed it for me. It did line up with the change in show runners, and they are the ones that are responsible for the overall look, the writing and casting. But younger people probably replaced me. If they find a pretty young thing to be a companion, I might go back.
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Re: Dr Who has not learned its lesson

Post by Mr. X »

I think fundamentally Dr. Who has died. And it should die. Its over 70 years old (?) and its an old hand me down.

Young generations need their own thing not some skid marked, hand me down jeans from a grand pa.

The problem is you have to tear down the old to replace it and right now the only two groups are either the old fan base clinging on or the rebellious window smashers who only know how to wreck and not create. To replace this there has to be something of substance. It can't be just replacing characters out of an act of rebellion or just shoving altruistic tokens and expecting people to like it.

But the window smashers need to understand humans have not fundamentally changed and neither has the structure of stories. By all means experiment but these things remain for a reason. There's nothing new about humans. No new emotions are created. Making something new will still cause the new writers to come back to the fundamental basics.

So yes let these franchises die or let them contract down to a special interest level. DC and Marvel should contract down to just making comics as their bread winner and let the movie thing be something else.

But its not get woke, got broke. Its went broke... woke set in.
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Re: Dr Who has not learned its lesson

Post by Dazzle1 »

sneakly wrote: 1 month ago
Mr. X wrote: 1 month ago
batgirl1969 wrote: 1 month ago
tallyho wrote: 1 month ago Everybody knows the magic formula for success, and it's tits and ass.
Boobs & Butts!!!
So lets say that happens. Lets say there's a rabid group who demands boobs and butts in a show. The show complies. Then these people don't watch the show. They don't buy the merc. THE NUMBERS GO DOWN BADLY. So the show tries to remove the boobs and butts and the same people scream murder and won't allow them to remove the content. What do you make of that crowd? Is that really fans... or something else?

This is not just that groups fault. Add to this the show producers seem to HATE the previous fan base for some reason. So they won't switch the content even IF the numbers would go up. The show is effectively going to die.

Note Dr. Who is an iconic show. Its a pillar that drives through nearly 6 decades of culture connecting with a theme. It will be in reruns so every child will see it. Young and old know it.
The current iteration of Dr Who has been around SEVENTEEN YEARS. The idea that the Dr could be gender fluid since ‘08, that was fifteen years years ago. Leela was getting tied up in a loincloth minidress back in the 1970s. You seem to be arguing that fan service shouldn’t exist. Not every companion needs to be a shaggable piece of ass, but I don’t think it out of the question.

Donna Noble was arguably one of the best companions ever, but so were Rose and Sarah Jane. Uninteresting characters get written out fairly quickly. That I am not watching Jodie Whittaker as Dr Who doesn’t mean others aren’t. I was devout watcher of the reboot from ‘05 to about ‘15. My kids stopped watching with me and access became less convenient. A string of blah storylines killed it for me. It did line up with the change in show runners, and they are the ones that are responsible for the overall look, the writing and casting. But younger people probably replaced me. If they find a pretty young thing to be a companion, I might go back.
Donna Noble was one of the worst companions only surpassed by Bill Potts and Melanie Bush. She was mindless impatient and bossy.
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Re: Dr Who has not learned its lesson

Post by Damselbinder »

Dazzle1 wrote: 1 month ago
sneakly wrote: 1 month ago
Mr. X wrote: 1 month ago
batgirl1969 wrote: 1 month ago
tallyho wrote: 1 month ago Everybody knows the magic formula for success, and it's tits and ass.
Boobs & Butts!!!
So lets say that happens. Lets say there's a rabid group who demands boobs and butts in a show. The show complies. Then these people don't watch the show. They don't buy the merc. THE NUMBERS GO DOWN BADLY. So the show tries to remove the boobs and butts and the same people scream murder and won't allow them to remove the content. What do you make of that crowd? Is that really fans... or something else?

This is not just that groups fault. Add to this the show producers seem to HATE the previous fan base for some reason. So they won't switch the content even IF the numbers would go up. The show is effectively going to die.

Note Dr. Who is an iconic show. Its a pillar that drives through nearly 6 decades of culture connecting with a theme. It will be in reruns so every child will see it. Young and old know it.
The current iteration of Dr Who has been around SEVENTEEN YEARS. The idea that the Dr could be gender fluid since ‘08, that was fifteen years years ago. Leela was getting tied up in a loincloth minidress back in the 1970s. You seem to be arguing that fan service shouldn’t exist. Not every companion needs to be a shaggable piece of ass, but I don’t think it out of the question.

Donna Noble was arguably one of the best companions ever, but so were Rose and Sarah Jane. Uninteresting characters get written out fairly quickly. That I am not watching Jodie Whittaker as Dr Who doesn’t mean others aren’t. I was devout watcher of the reboot from ‘05 to about ‘15. My kids stopped watching with me and access became less convenient. A string of blah storylines killed it for me. It did line up with the change in show runners, and they are the ones that are responsible for the overall look, the writing and casting. But younger people probably replaced me. If they find a pretty young thing to be a companion, I might go back.
Donna Noble was one of the worst companions only surpassed by Bill Potts and Melanie Bush. She was mindless impatient and bossy.
Now you listen here Dazzle1 and you listen good, because I'm only going to say this DazzleOnce.

Donna was not only not-the-worst companion. She was the BEST companion that the Doctor ever had. She wasn't a simpering worshipper, but she wasn't so up herself that she wasn't impressed by the Doctor, or the incredible things she got to see while travelling with him. She was a firm friend but she didn't take shit.

So I don't want to hear that about Donna Noble. She was based, savvy?
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Re: Dr Who has not learned its lesson

Post by Dazzle1 »

Now you listen here Dazzle1 and you listen good, because I'm only going to say this DazzleOnce.

Donna was not only not-the-worst companion. She was the BEST companion that the Doctor ever had. She wasn't a simpering worshipper, but she wasn't so up herself that she wasn't impressed by the Doctor, or the incredible things she got to see while travelling with him. She was a firm friend but she didn't take shit.

So I don't want to hear that about Donna Noble. She was based, savvy?

-----------------

Donna was a loser that was made into something she was not

This is not an attack of Catherine tate, but Kim Kardashina would have been more useful companion than Donna the Shallow Noble

The Doctor values intelligence and depth, Donna and her father were neither
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Re: Dr Who has not learned its lesson

Post by Shakeshift »

Donna Noble was indeed TERRIBLE in her first appearance in the Wedding Special. She was fantastic in the fourth series though and is arguably one of the best companions. She was kind, empathic, funny, sarcastic, strong-willed, and she was a fantastic companion because she wasn't fawning like a blushing schoolgirl over the white male in the room, which is what I hated about the previous two companions, Rose Tyler and Martha Jones. If the doctor tried bullshit, Donna called him out on it and let him have it with both barrels, because she thought of the Doctor as an equal, not as a superior. Something which is sadly lacking in most storylines.

Donna was out for adventure, and she was one of the doctor's truest friends and one of the most grounded associates. That's what makes her so respected.
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Re: Dr Who has not learned its lesson

Post by Dazzle1 »

Shakeshift wrote: 1 month ago Donna Noble was indeed TERRIBLE in her first appearance in the Wedding Special. She was fantastic in the fourth series though and is arguably one of the best companions. She was kind, empathic, funny, sarcastic, strong-willed, and she was a fantastic companion because she wasn't fawning like a blushing schoolgirl over the white male in the room, which is what I hated about the previous two companions, Rose Tyler and Martha Jones. If the doctor tried bullshit, Donna called him out on it and let him have it with both barrels, because she thought of the Doctor as an equal, not as a superior. Something which is sadly lacking in most storylines.

Donna was out for adventure, and she was one of the doctor's truest friends and one of the most grounded associates. That's what makes her so respected.
I disagree, but I don't think of any of the New companions were good except for Martha

There was no Sarah Jane
There definitly was no kick ass Leela or doctor equal like Romana
And Rory was a wimp compared to Adric
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Re: Dr Who has not learned its lesson

Post by Damselbinder »

Dazzle1 wrote: 1 month ago
Shakeshift wrote: 1 month ago Donna Noble was indeed TERRIBLE in her first appearance in the Wedding Special. She was fantastic in the fourth series though and is arguably one of the best companions. She was kind, empathic, funny, sarcastic, strong-willed, and she was a fantastic companion because she wasn't fawning like a blushing schoolgirl over the white male in the room, which is what I hated about the previous two companions, Rose Tyler and Martha Jones. If the doctor tried bullshit, Donna called him out on it and let him have it with both barrels, because she thought of the Doctor as an equal, not as a superior. Something which is sadly lacking in most storylines.

Donna was out for adventure, and she was one of the doctor's truest friends and one of the most grounded associates. That's what makes her so respected.
I disagree, but I don't think of any of the New companions were good except for Martha

There was no Sarah Jane
There definitly was no kick ass Leela or doctor equal like Romana
And Rory was a wimp compared to Adric
Now you listen here because -

- oh. Oh you're insulting Rory? In that case, by all means continue.
A full list of my stories can be found here, with summaries to boot: viewtopic.php?f=70&t=32027
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Re: Dr Who has not learned its lesson

Post by sneakly »

Rory’s only skill was making Amy less sexy.
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