Star Trek Strange New Worlds Off The Rails

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Star Trek Strange New Worlds Off The Rails

Post by Dazzle1 »

Taking side in politics.

There is a trend by the producers to take the Dem or left wing extremist narrative in the Kurtzmann universe. Don't want to this to devolve into a political argument.

But to be this polarizing, does alienate a good percentage of the viewers. Jan 6th this soon.

https://boundingintocomics.com/2022/05/ ... d-war-iii/
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Re: Star Trek Strange New Worlds

Post by shevek »

Won't go there, but note the following:

Other than being another first contact story (hint: the method of contact is re-purposed from Close Encounters of the Third Kind!), almost the entire second episode is an exercise in self-affirmation (the writers use the pre-Current Year term, "pep talk") for the character of Cadet Uhura.
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Re: Star Trek Strange New Worlds

Post by Dogfish »

It's Star Trek lads. Space communists doing social justice. It's not even subtext, it's literally what the show has always been about. Bunch of pronoun-respecting anti-racist luxury communists travelling the galaxy fixing conservative/fashy/religious aliens and the problems they cause, sometimes by shooting them but usually by explaining to them that they are dumb.



This particular show is great too. Just a gigantic pile of rainbows and sunshine every time, even with the lurking issue of Pike's doom hanging over him. Ship looks great, crew look great, aliens look cool, plus they brought back the uniform mini-dress. Also they faked out all the nerds by bringing Lieutenant Kirk onto the team which I thought was hilarious.
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Re: Star Trek Strange New Worlds

Post by Mr. X »

Dogfish wrote: 4 months agoLieutenant Kirk onto the team which I thought was hilarious.
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Re: Star Trek Strange New Worlds

Post by shevek »

Dogfish wrote: 4 months ago It's Star Trek lads. Space communists doing social justice. It's not even subtext, it's literally what the show has always been about. Bunch of pronoun-respecting anti-racist luxury communists travelling the galaxy fixing conservative/fashy/religious aliens and the problems they cause, sometimes by shooting them but usually by explaining to them that they are dumb.
This particular show is great too. Just a gigantic pile of rainbows and sunshine every time, even with the lurking issue of Pike's doom hanging over him. Ship looks great, crew look great, aliens look cool, plus they brought back the uniform mini-dress. Also they faked out all the nerds by bringing Lieutenant Kirk onto the team which I thought was hilarious.
Not quite. 1960s liberalism was quite a different animal than what they've got going on now. If you're Ok with me leaving it at that, I will, but here's one example: very different treatment of the genius 'Cadet Uhura' than the treatment that genius Wesley Crusher got in TNG.

As for "Lieutenant Kirk", that's actually James Kirk's older brother Sam. James Kirk will begin to appear in the series, but not until Season 2.

And yes, everything is overshadowed by Pike's doom. After all, we know *exactly* what happened to him, as shown in "The Menagerie".
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Re: Star Trek Strange New Worlds

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shevek wrote: 4 months ago And yes, everything is overshadowed by Pike's doom. After all, we know *exactly* what happened to him, as shown in "The Menagerie".
They can reimage anything. Plus they have 10 years. Doubt this show lasts 3.
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Re: Star Trek Strange New Worlds

Post by Dogfish »

shevek wrote: 4 months ago
Dogfish wrote: 4 months ago It's Star Trek lads. Space communists doing social justice. It's not even subtext, it's literally what the show has always been about. Bunch of pronoun-respecting anti-racist luxury communists travelling the galaxy fixing conservative/fashy/religious aliens and the problems they cause, sometimes by shooting them but usually by explaining to them that they are dumb.
This particular show is great too. Just a gigantic pile of rainbows and sunshine every time, even with the lurking issue of Pike's doom hanging over him. Ship looks great, crew look great, aliens look cool, plus they brought back the uniform mini-dress. Also they faked out all the nerds by bringing Lieutenant Kirk onto the team which I thought was hilarious.
Not quite. 1960s liberalism was quite a different animal than what they've got going on now. If you're Ok with me leaving it at that, I will, but here's one example: very different treatment of the genius 'Cadet Uhura' than the treatment that genius Wesley Crusher got in TNG.

As for "Lieutenant Kirk", that's actually James Kirk's older brother Sam. James Kirk will begin to appear in the series, but not until Season 2.

And yes, everything is overshadowed by Pike's doom. After all, we know *exactly* what happened to him, as shown in "The Menagerie".
Alas we know what happens to Sam too. Something involving a flying space pancake. He is more doomed than Pike.
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Re: Star Trek Strange New Worlds

Post by Dazzle1 »

Dogfish wrote: 4 months ago It's Star Trek lads. Space communists doing social justice. It's not even subtext, it's literally what the show has always been about. Bunch of pronoun-respecting anti-racist luxury communists travelling the galaxy fixing conservative/fashy/religious aliens and the problems they cause, sometimes by shooting them but usually by explaining to them that they are dumb.



This particular show is great too. Just a gigantic pile of rainbows and sunshine every time, even with the lurking issue of Pike's doom hanging over him. Ship looks great, crew look great, aliens look cool, plus they brought back the uniform mini-dress. Also they faked out all the nerds by bringing Lieutenant Kirk onto the team which I thought was hilarious.
It was never that

Justice and fight totalitarianism is a conservative value not a Woke one

Look at Patterns of Force from TOS if Kurtzmann did he would make the Jews the villains
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Re: Star Trek Strange New Worlds

Post by shevek »

Dazzle1 wrote: 4 months ago
Dogfish wrote: 4 months ago It's Star Trek lads. Space communists doing social justice. It's not even subtext, it's literally what the show has always been about. Bunch of pronoun-respecting anti-racist luxury communists travelling the galaxy fixing conservative/fashy/religious aliens and the problems they cause, sometimes by shooting them but usually by explaining to them that they are dumb.



This particular show is great too. Just a gigantic pile of rainbows and sunshine every time, even with the lurking issue of Pike's doom hanging over him. Ship looks great, crew look great, aliens look cool, plus they brought back the uniform mini-dress. Also they faked out all the nerds by bringing Lieutenant Kirk onto the team which I thought was hilarious.
It was never that

Justice and fight totalitarianism is a conservative value not a Woke one

Look at Patterns of Force from TOS if Kurtzmann did he would make the Jews the villains
I kind of doubt it, Dazzle: the entire creative team of Strange New Worlds (Kurtzman, Goldsman, Lumet) is Jewish.
They'll be progressive Jews, of course, but they're not going to make their own (or any Jewish analogues) into villains.

Also, sure, the Federation might on the surface be "luxury communists" (I think the actual term, Dogfish, is "champagne socialists") but there is a sure totalitarian control streak that runs through them as well, and not just because they have a militaristic setup with Starfleet. Check the "Picard" first season for some of their xenophobia vs Romulans, etc.
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Re: Star Trek Strange New Worlds

Post by Mr. X »

shevek wrote: 4 months ago
I kind of doubt it, Dazzle: the entire creative team of Strange New Worlds (Kurtzman, Goldsman, Lumet) is Jewish.
They'll be progressive Jews, of course, but they're not going to make their own (or any Jewish analogues) into villains.
So they would never do an Israel/Palestine comparison?

As for the federation, I guess we don't know what the world would be in a post scarcity society
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Re: Star Trek Strange New Worlds

Post by Dazzle1 »

Mr. X wrote: 4 months ago
shevek wrote: 4 months ago
I kind of doubt it, Dazzle: the entire creative team of Strange New Worlds (Kurtzman, Goldsman, Lumet) is Jewish.
They'll be progressive Jews, of course, but they're not going to make their own (or any Jewish analogues) into villains.
So they would never do an Israel/Palestine comparison?

As for the federation, I guess we don't know what the world would be in a post scarcity society
As the media and several musicians are anti-Semttic, I can see it happening
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Re: Star Trek Strange New Worlds

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shevek wrote: 4 months ago
Dazzle1 wrote: 4 months ago
Dogfish wrote: 4 months ago It's Star Trek lads. Space communists doing social justice. It's not even subtext, it's literally what the show has always been about. Bunch of pronoun-respecting anti-racist luxury communists travelling the galaxy fixing conservative/fashy/religious aliens and the problems they cause, sometimes by shooting them but usually by explaining to them that they are dumb.



This particular show is great too. Just a gigantic pile of rainbows and sunshine every time, even with the lurking issue of Pike's doom hanging over him. Ship looks great, crew look great, aliens look cool, plus they brought back the uniform mini-dress. Also they faked out all the nerds by bringing Lieutenant Kirk onto the team which I thought was hilarious.
It was never that

Justice and fight totalitarianism is a conservative value not a Woke one

Look at Patterns of Force from TOS if Kurtzmann did he would make the Jews the villains
I kind of doubt it, Dazzle: the entire creative team of Strange New Worlds (Kurtzman, Goldsman, Lumet) is Jewish.
They'll be progressive Jews, of course, but they're not going to make their own (or any Jewish analogues) into villains.

Also, sure, the Federation might on the surface be "luxury communists" (I think the actual term, Dogfish, is "champagne socialists") but there is a sure totalitarian control streak that runs through them as well, and not just because they have a militaristic setup with Starfleet. Check the "Picard" first season for some of their xenophobia vs Romulans, etc.
No, the actual term is Fully Automated Luxury Communists. It's the term for a post-scarcity ideology where everybody has everything they need because everything exists in abundance. Which is the Federation. Like regular Communism but instead of arguing over the village potato there's a machine in every home that provides many potatoes. Or jelly. Or whatever.
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Re: Star Trek Strange New Worlds

Post by NotUv2 »

shevek wrote: 4 months agoalmost the entire second episode is an exercise in self-affirmation (the writers use the pre-Current Year term, "pep talk") for the character of Cadet Uhura.
Since you compare her to Wesley Crusher, be it noted that the first time he saves the Enterprise in TNG -- not the mission, the actual ship -- was in the second episode, "The Naked Now." The amount of actual time spent on "pep-talking" her is five minutes, max, and all of it is organically motivated by the situation given that she proves unexpectedly crucial to the core mission (Wesley Crusher's lack of any need for this is frankly the weirder story decision).

No accounting for taste, but I do find it bizarre to declare Celia any less photogenic or winning than prior Uhura players. Of course, she's not light-skinned and doesn't have "relaxed" hair and, apparently, that's a big deal to some people. Can't say I'm one of them. She's easily in the league of Lupita Nyong'o, who is easily one of the most beautiful women currently alive and working in the entertainment industry. Anybody who tries to deny either part of that equation is just kidding themselves, IMO. (Celia is certainly more believable as a Kenyan, which is very specifically her background here, minus the Kenyan accent.)

At any rate, SNW has delivered solidly through two episodes. It's visibly a spinoff of DSC and it's certainly going to upset habitual bitchers about "wokeness," but that's just native to what Trek of this era is about, so I don't pay much attention to that at this point.
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Re: Star Trek Strange New Worlds

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NotUv2 wrote: 4 months ago At any rate, SNW has delivered solidly through two episodes. It's visibly a spinoff of DSC and it's certainly going to upset habitual bitchers about "wokeness," but that's just native to what Trek of this era is about, so I don't pay much attention to that at this point.
People will be hesitant about drink punch that the woke peed in for the last 20 years.
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Re: Star Trek Strange New Worlds

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Dogfish wrote: 4 months ago No, the actual term is Fully Automated Luxury Communists. It's the term for a post-scarcity ideology where everybody has everything they need because everything exists in abundance. Which is the Federation. Like regular Communism but instead of arguing over the village potato there's a machine in every home that provides many potatoes. Or jelly. Or whatever.
Dogfish wrote: 4 months ago No, the actual term is Fully Automated Luxury Communists. It's the term for a post-scarcity ideology where everybody has everything they need because everything exists in abundance. Which is the Federation. Like regular Communism but instead of arguing over the village potato there's a machine in every home that provides many potatoes. Or jelly. Or whatever.
Oh (searching...), I see now. There's a recent book about that, with that name. It's leftist futurism. I'm a big fan of futurist perspectives, such as Alvin Toffler (and the Italian Futurist movement, which was actually right-wing in its politics, although avant-garde in aesthetics) but had never heard of this term. It's basically robot-driven utopianism. Sounds intriguing, if implausible. But it's certainly better than the hardscrabble utopianism of "The Dispossessed" or the mindless childlike utopia of the Eloi.

I learned something new today. Thanks, Dogfish!

It seems like that would fit the world of the Federation, and yet even when you create a post-scarcity world, there are ALWAYS some things which are in short supply, like dilithium crystals. Or the "quadrotriticale" high-yield grain they needed so desperately in "The Trouble with Tribbles" - why worry about the tribbles eating it all up if it's a post-scarcity society. I'm sure I can find other examples. And then there are other things which some people may have in short supply, like political and social powers, or love and happiness, or a satisfying sex life, etc. I don't think you can make *everything* abundant all the time to everyone.
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Re: Star Trek Strange New Worlds

Post by NotUv2 »

Mr. X wrote: 4 months ago
NotUv2 wrote: 4 months ago At any rate, SNW has delivered solidly through two episodes. It's visibly a spinoff of DSC and it's certainly going to upset habitual bitchers about "wokeness," but that's just native to what Trek of this era is about, so I don't pay much attention to that at this point.
People will be hesitant about drink punch that the woke peed in for the last 20 years.
35 years? TNG was "woke" before that was even a term, there was a whole lot of whingeing about its "liberal" and "commie" leanings from Day One.

56 years? TOS was pretty sexist if we're being real, but it did a lot of pioneering work in representation that pissed certain kinds of people off tremendously.

Pretty persistent pattern with Trek. Anytime it's finding new people to piss off, it's also finding a new audience, so there's no real reason for the brand to care about that kind of thing. Not that the brand is as "woke" as its fans often think it is, and arguably Trek has taken way too long to figure out some kinds of "wokeness": the Dirty Pair anime series infamously beat them to trans-positivity by just about 35 years. But any time it makes progress is a fine time. And the beautiful part is those of us who have affection for its sleazier elements can always revisit them and even write fanfic. Win-win.

[Shameless freaking plug: check the Amazon link in my sig to find some serial-numbers-filed-off Trek fanfic that leans heavily into the sleaze. Something in there for most people who have SHIP-related kinks, I like to think.]
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Re: Star Trek Strange New Worlds

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NotUv2 wrote: 4 months ago
35 years? TNG was "woke" before that was even a term, there was a whole lot of whingeing about its "liberal" and "commie" leanings from Day One.

56 years? TOS was pretty sexist if we're being real, but it did a lot of pioneering work in representation that pissed certain kinds of people off tremendously.
The difference is the woke ideals pushed today were already pushed. We old liberals took care of that back in the 70s and 80s. What we have today are people relentlessly posturing on issues we all already know about. Its akin to yelling at adults and relentlessly reminding them not to run with scissors. Classic Trek introduced ideas, it didn't hijack a cause and use it to judgmentally beat on people who already got the point decades earlier. We already know racism is bad. we already know about LGBT. We already know about wealth inequality. Woke is insulting because it rejects all the accomplishments of 35-50 years of progressivism and treats today as though nothing was gained.

Woke isn't introducing new ideas, its just relentlessly bashing GOOD PEOPLE with lessons THEY ALREADY KNOW.
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Re: Star Trek Strange New Worlds

Post by NotUv2 »

Mr. X wrote: 4 months ago
NotUv2 wrote: 4 months ago
35 years? TNG was "woke" before that was even a term, there was a whole lot of whingeing about its "liberal" and "commie" leanings from Day One.

56 years? TOS was pretty sexist if we're being real, but it did a lot of pioneering work in representation that pissed certain kinds of people off tremendously.
The difference is the woke ideals pushed today were already pushed. We old liberals took care of that back in the 70s and 80s.
Ehhhh, not really. If this were true, nobody today would be complaining, because they'd just see it as Trek and not as derisively-labelled "woke" Trek. Since that is not so, pretty obviously it wasn't all taken care of in the Seventies and Eighties. That said, I'll steer clear of politics at this point.
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Re: Star Trek Strange New Worlds

Post by shevek »

NotUv2 wrote: 4 months ago
shevek wrote: 4 months agoalmost the entire second episode is an exercise in self-affirmation (the writers use the pre-Current Year term, "pep talk") for the character of Cadet Uhura.
Since you compare her to Wesley Crusher, be it noted that the first time he saves the Enterprise in TNG -- not the mission, the actual ship -- was in the second episode, "The Naked Now." The amount of actual time spent on "pep-talking" her is five minutes, max, and all of it is organically motivated by the situation given that she proves unexpectedly crucial to the core mission (Wesley Crusher's lack of any need for this is frankly the weirder story decision).

No accounting for taste, but I do find it bizarre to declare Celia any less photogenic or winning than prior Uhura players. Of course, she's not light-skinned and doesn't have "relaxed" hair and, apparently, that's a big deal to some people. Can't say I'm one of them. She's easily in the league of Lupita Nyong'o, who is easily one of the most beautiful women currently alive and working in the entertainment industry. Anybody who tries to deny either part of that equation is just kidding themselves, IMO. (Celia is certainly more believable as a Kenyan, which is very specifically her background here, minus the Kenyan accent.)

At any rate, SNW has delivered solidly through two episodes. It's visibly a spinoff of DSC and it's certainly going to upset habitual bitchers about "wokeness," but that's just native to what Trek of this era is about, so I don't pay much attention to that at this point.
That's fine re the show. I enjoyed it well enough, in the sense that it returned Trek to its original purpose of pure exploration.

I'm just pointing out what's there. So what you're saying is that you're fine with 10% of the show's script and screen time being taken up by various pep talks and affirmations given to Uhura (and I bet it's a bit *more* than five minutes, all told). And you're also saying that Wesley just saving the ship in TNG without any pep talks because 1) he's a genius and 2) it's his job.. is somehow weird and unusual. Like you said, there's no accounting for tastes (in script writing). :)

And as for photogenic, let's let people's eyes decide which actress is not in the same league as the other three (since you threw in Nyon'go) in terms of attractiveness. I would propose that no matter how many claims are made for subjectivity, there are some standards which still remain fairly objective. Nichelle Nichols retained every iota of her glorious countenance until the day she died.
celia rose gooding.jpg
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And P.S. I saw you mention Dirty Pair as an early example of "trans-positivity" - are you sure you don't mean "transhuman" and "posthuman" - those were already concepts in the 80s, as far as cyborgs and genetic mutants, etc. Anyway, my eyes perked up because that's an Adam Warren art property, and he of course went on to create the epic world of Empowered, just saying.
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Re: Star Trek Strange New Worlds

Post by NotUv2 »

shevek wrote: 4 months ago I'm just pointing out what's there. So what you're saying is that you're fine with 10% of the show's script and screen time being taken up by various pep talks and affirmations given to Uhura (and I bet it's a bit *more* than five minutes, all told).
I haven't precisely timed it, but my bet is under five minutes. Most of them are brief interactions.
And you're also saying that Wesley just saving the ship in TNG without any pep talks because 1) he's a genius and 2) it's his job.. is somehow weird and unusual. Like you said, there's no accounting for tastes (in script writing). :)
Humanly speaking, it's more normal for people to feel uncertain in a first-time situation and to need some fortification from the team, yes.
And as for photogenic, let's let people's eyes decide which actress is not in the same league as the other three
You're heavily cherry-picking, but I'm not gonna argue with you about what your taste should be. Your taste is your taste. I do think the cherry-picking you had to indulge there ought to tell you something. Working out the whys and wherefores is up to you.

A few more typical images of Celia for reference:

Image

Image

Image

Just for reference as to why your version of casting opinions may not be entirely convincing.
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Re: Star Trek Strange New Worlds

Post by Mr. X »

NotUv2 wrote: 4 months ago
Mr. X wrote: 4 months ago
NotUv2 wrote: 4 months ago
35 years? TNG was "woke" before that was even a term, there was a whole lot of whingeing about its "liberal" and "commie" leanings from Day One.

56 years? TOS was pretty sexist if we're being real, but it did a lot of pioneering work in representation that pissed certain kinds of people off tremendously.
The difference is the woke ideals pushed today were already pushed. We old liberals took care of that back in the 70s and 80s.
Ehhhh, not really. If this were true, nobody today would be complaining, because they'd just see it as Trek and not as derisively-labelled "woke" Trek. Since that is not so, pretty obviously it wasn't all taken care of in the Seventies and Eighties. That said, I'll steer clear of politics at this point.
yes actually it was. What we have today are people who are posturing for the sake of posturing. You're under some illusion this woke stuff is fixing anything. Its not. Its the hijacking of already known moral issues and using them to bully others with constant soap box preaching.

And breaking society into racial, gender classes is the exact OPPOSITE of liberalism. Its what we old liberals fought against. You don't ever do that. You don't identify people as their race or gender or whatever. You see the individual. ONLY the individual matters. That is liberalism.

If America is this busted then that firmly shows 35-50 years of progressivism is an abject failure. History didn't start 5 years ago and the US didn't magically have 43% raging Nazi white supremacists over night.

Nothing is being fixed here. Its the equivalent of preachers perpetually scolding people as sinners.
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Re: Star Trek Strange New Worlds

Post by shevek »

NotUv2 wrote: 4 months ago You're heavily cherry-picking, but I'm not gonna argue with you about what your taste should be. Your taste is your taste. I do think the cherry-picking you had to indulge there ought to tell you something. Working out the whys and wherefores is up to you.
I didn't "cherry-pick". Google did. I quickly took photos from the top row of each search. The photo of Celia I took was, in fact, the very first one that Google offered. The only photo which took a bit *longer* to find was Lupita's because so many of them were WEBPs from various articles, and I could only post jpgs or pngs. And nope, it's not just taste - there's a certain level of objectivity, and if you can't acknowledge that, it's fine, I'm not going to worry about it. I also never said that Celia wasn't shapely - she definitely is, but so far it seems they are downplaying that in SNW, as well.

I'll just wait until the 3rd episode to say any more, at this point. Mr. X can hold his own, I don't need to echo his sentiments. Thanks for the reasonable exchange!
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Re: Star Trek Strange New Worlds

Post by NotUv2 »

Mr. X wrote: 4 months agoyes actually it was.
If it was, nobody would react to casting decisions, characters, or story beats with yakking about "wokeness." It would not occur to them. Not even thinking about bitching for those reasons alone is what having actually dealt with those issues looks like. Very obviously, a lot of the fandom isn't there.

This is not a surprise. TOS Trek was "woke" to a point. TNG Trek was "woke" to a point. Not uncommon for people who were "liberal" in a prior era to eventually reach a point of progress they can't accept or live with. I don't judge anyone too heavily for this, it's part of human nature, but OFC I won't pretend it's the same thing as having Already Solved All the Problems.

Okay. This is where I'm cutting off political interaction. F'real this time.
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Re: Star Trek Strange New Worlds

Post by NotUv2 »

shevek wrote: 4 months ago
NotUv2 wrote: 4 months ago You're heavily cherry-picking, but I'm not gonna argue with you about what your taste should be. Your taste is your taste. I do think the cherry-picking you had to indulge there ought to tell you something. Working out the whys and wherefores is up to you.
I didn't "cherry-pick". Google did.
Damn. Weak excuse, bruh.

But by all means, let's hang fire for Ep. 3. I'm fine with that.
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Re: Star Trek Strange New Worlds

Post by Mr. X »

NotUv2 wrote: 4 months ago
Mr. X wrote: 4 months agoyes actually it was.
If it was, nobody would react to casting decisions, characters, or story beats with yakking about "wokeness." It would not occur to them. Not even thinking about bitching for those reasons alone is what having actually dealt with those issues looks like. Very obviously, a lot of the fandom isn't there.
Yes they would react JUST LIKE us old liberals reacted in the 70s and 80s when the conservative xtians kept putting God messages into everything.

Let me explain this real clearly to you -
ITS NOT THAT THE CHARACTER IS BIPOC, ITS THAT ISSUE HIJACKERS ARE BEATING US OVER THE HEAD THAT THE CHARACTER IS BIPOC OR LGBT RELENTLESSLY LIKE HISTORY STARTED ONLY IN 2015.

Clear enough for you - KAREN?
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Re: Star Trek Strange New Worlds

Post by NotUv2 »

Mr. X wrote: 4 months agoYes they would react JUST LIKE us old liberals reacted in the 70s and 80s when the conservative xtians kept putting God messages into everything.
The conservative Xtians are now trying to illegalize reproductive freedom in any form and are trying to force people to reimplant ectopic pregnancies, which is not a doable thing, and are trying their level best to keep anyone who might oppose them from voting.

The casting directors on Trek are casting diverse characters and letting them be heroes.

You lean very heavily on this false equivalency, and it is not convincing, and it has never been convincing. Real talk, bro, this is just stupidity. The "Karen" flourish might have seemed clever to you: it isn't. It just illustrates how far-off from reality your perspective is.

Reported the prior post for just transitioning into straight-up name-calling, for the record.
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Re: Star Trek Strange New Worlds

Post by Mr. X »

NotUv2 wrote: 4 months ago
The conservative Xtians are now trying to illegalize reproductive freedom in any form and are trying to force people to reimplant ectopic pregnancies, which is not a doable thing, and are trying their level best to keep anyone who might oppose them from voting.
No they are not. You are either lying or so woefully misrepresenting this issue that any further discussion is pointless.

So basically none of your progressivism has worked on 43% of the population over a 35-50 year period. Your ideology is an abysmal failure by your own admission. Yeah keep thinking it terms of "teams", it keeps the fighting going longer.
The casting directors on Trek are casting diverse characters and letting them be heroes.
GRAND POOF OF MY POINT. They did this IN THE 60s! NOTHING NEW. Again you seem to think history only started in 2015. This is NOTHING NEW. We've had close to 50 years of diverse characters in shows, movies. Heck Rosanne, which was a working class, blue collar representing show in the 70s and 80s had positive gay and lesbian character story arks.

Again beating people WHO ALREADY KNOW THE LESSON over the head again and again to be some fake righteous person.
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Re: Star Trek Strange New Worlds

Post by NotUv2 »

Mr. X wrote: 4 months ago
NotUv2 wrote: 4 months ago
The conservative Xtians are now trying to illegalize reproductive freedom in any form and are trying to force people to reimplant ectopic pregnancies, which is not a doable thing, and are trying their level best to keep anyone who might oppose them from voting.
No they are not.
Simple factual statements.

The first point is very exactly and specifically what the leaked statement about Roe vs. Wade from the Supreme Court was about.

The second point is about Ohio's Bill 413, again just factually true.

History for the third point is found here.

This is no more "politics" than are your persistent claims. They are simple fact.
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Re: Star Trek Strange New Worlds

Post by Mr. X »

NotUv2 wrote: 4 months ago
Simple factual statements.

The first point is very exactly and specifically what the leaked statement about Roe vs. Wade from the Supreme Court was about.
No it is not. NOTHING in that review talks about conservatives trying to ban abortion and I challenge you to show that exact wording. Its correcting the FACT this ruling was unconstitutional, not the area of the fed and is left up to the states. You have no evidence the supreme court draft is stating it wants to ban abortion.
The second point is about Ohio's Bill 413, again just factually true.

Yup THAT STATE is outlawing it. California is allowing it all the way up to 9 months I believe. It is now down to the states AS IT SHOULD. I do not disagree the right wants to ban abortion. I disagree your claim that the draft is trying to ban abortion.
History for the third point is found here.
And I can show you the 2000 mules video. So what. BOTH SIDES DO THIS. They register the dead, improper vote counts. Heck the left pent 4 years saying the Russians rigged the election. Point out AN EXAMPLE does not mean the whole group is doing this anymore than pointing out an example of democrats registering dead people to vote means all democrats are doing that.

I could spend weeks posting edge case examples of all sorts of groups doing something bad. You you paint with a broad brush you will be painted with a broad brush.

But you prove my point... 35-50 years of progressivism apparently has done NOTHING to make society better. So it should be abandoned.
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Re: Star Trek Strange New Worlds

Post by MightyHypnotic »

I removed this topic from the recent posts so you guys don't piss off any other forum members by going off topic.
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Re: Star Trek Strange New Worlds

Post by NotUv2 »

Mr. X wrote: 4 months agoNOTHING in that review talks about conservatives trying to ban abortion
Except as they attempt to do so at the state level, which multiple states are attempting to do and against which Roe vs. Wade was the backstop, as you're trying very falsely to pretend we do not all know perfectly well. (The "constitutional" argument against it is Alito citing a 17th-century witch-hunter, which is on-type.)
Yup THAT STATE is outlawing it
And of course, ALEC is a thing (and I don't for a second believe you don't know what that is), which means state legislatures are laboratories for broader, national measures. But again, it's MUCH more important to you that people happen to be chill with diverse casting than on such-and-such show than it is that a state legislature is fixing to accuse people of "abortion murder" for failing to do the impossible. Pretty instructive as to your claims about "liberalism," bruh.
BOTH SIDES DO THIS.
A common excuse for one of the sides, but no. That's delusional. ONE side tried to stage a coup on January 6 of 2020. ONE side tries persistently to restrict the vote, because it is an authoritarian and extremist minority that wants as few people voting as possible. ONE side does this. The OTHER side tries to maximize the vote, b/c it represents the majority of voters and knows this. ONE side has chosen voter suppression instead of even attempting to appeal to more voters, because it has doubled down on White resentment and delusion.

ONE side does this. ONE. That again, is a FACTUAL statement. Show me a Democratic Party vote suppression effort anywhere in America. SPOILER: you cannot do it. The dynamics of the two parties are precisely inverted b/c at this point one wants working democracy and the other is endangered by it, b/c of its own choices.
35-50 years of progressivism apparently has done NOTHING to make society better. So it should be abandoned.
And that right there is proof positive of how full of shit you really are.

Don't keep attempting to pretend you represent the solution of liberal problems. You do not. Your constant attempts to pretend that it's the religious right who are irrelevant to present-day politics do not hold water. This is obvious to anyone who sees almost literally any headline in the current day. Just stop. You think this is fooling people, and it is not.
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Re: Star Trek Strange New Worlds

Post by NotUv2 »

MightyHypnotic wrote: 4 months ago I removed this topic from the recent posts so you guys don't piss off any other forum members by going off topic.
Fair enough.

I'd be perfectly happy to see my own posts wiped if you were minded to actually enforce the "no politics" rule, so long as that also applied to others. But hey, not my circus, not my monkeys.
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Re: Star Trek Strange New Worlds

Post by Mr. X »

NotUv2 wrote: 4 months ago Except as they attempt to do so at the state level, which multiple states are attempting to do and against which Roe vs. Wade was the backstop, as you're trying very falsely to pretend we do not all know perfectly well. (The "constitutional" argument against it is Alito citing a 17th-century witch-hunter, which is on-type.)
It also leaves it up to the states to vote for 100% abortion up to 9 months so that is more freedom.

I will leave it at this. SO WHAT. Your ideology, by your own admission, is an abysmal failure. NOTHING has changed in 35-50 years.

We had diversity characters all the way in the 60s. The head admiral of Star Fleet in TOS was a black guy.

You literally ignore 35-50 years of improvement cause if America is this racist and bad off then your ideology has clearly done nothing to fix it.

All you are really doing is brow beating the people who already know the message... issue hijacking.
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Re: Star Trek Strange New Worlds

Post by NotUv2 »

Mr. X wrote: 4 months agoYour ideology, by your own admission, is an abysmal failure
I didn't tell you anything about what "my ideology" is. I guarantee you, you do not know.

I just told you that people who genuinely have no issue with representation would not now be bitching about it. I stand by that. Nothing you have said changes anything about it. If what you claimed is true was actually true, this entire argument would never have happened.

That's it. That's really all of it.
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Re: Star Trek Strange New Worlds

Post by Mr. X »

NotUv2 wrote: 4 months ago
Mr. X wrote: 4 months agoYour ideology, by your own admission, is an abysmal failure
I didn't tell you anything about what "my ideology" is. I guarantee you, you do not know.

I just told you that people who genuinely have no issue with representation would not now be bitching about it. I stand by that. Nothing you have said changes anything about it. If what you claimed is true was actually true, this entire argument would never have happened.

That's it. That's really all of it.
Yes they WOULD have an issue because they ALREADY KNOW IT and they don't need some issue hijacker WHO IS NO BETTER THAN ANYONE ELSE lecturing them on something they not only KNOW but fought to correct in the past. We already had this diversity.

Again, telling people to not run with scissors ad nausea is not helping... ITS ANNOYING.

BTW what you are doing is called "scraping away the thin veneer of politeness". Its the act of being a constant troll, constantly pushing divisive issues, constantly soap boxing, till someone gets mad then using that as proof there is hidden bigotry. Its a BS move.
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Re: Star Trek Strange New Worlds

Post by NotUv2 »

Mr. X wrote: 4 months agoYes they WOULD have an issue because they ALREADY KNOW IT
No. People who already know a thing do not bitch about it, and do not bitch about seeing it represented.

I guarantee you that you have bitched ZERO times about seeing a White, straight male in a command position in a show. That is what people who "already know" and have made peace with a thing look like. The people who bitch are the ones who still have an issue, but don't want to admit it and need to make various excuses for their discomfort. You can take any number of other issues with the show, but you will not be automatically in the comments whining about how "woke" it is that there's a straight, White male onscreen. And we all know it.

You can obfuscate the reasons for discomfort. Or you can try. But you cannot hide the discomfort. It's always obvious when it happens. It always announces itself.

You think that people already knowing something constitutes some kind of special favor that should not be pushed beyond a certain point. You think you were doing them a favor by deigning to claim to see them as equals. But you were not doing them a favor. That is just what they were always due as human beings. And when the world starts actually behaving that way, treating them that way, and representing them that way, it pisses you off. AFAICT that's what this conversation is really about.

It's disappointing AF, bruh. I'm not gonna lie.
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Re: Star Trek Strange New Worlds

Post by Mr. X »

NotUv2 wrote: 4 months ago
Mr. X wrote: 4 months agoYes they WOULD have an issue because they ALREADY KNOW IT
No. People who already know a thing do not bitch about it, and do not bitch about seeing it represented.
Hey NotUv2, be sure to say please and thank you, m'kay. Good thing I'm telling to a virtuous thing you already know. And I'll just keep repeating it over and over and stick into movies and TV shows and in your work place no matter if you do say please and thank you.

And if you get sick of it cause you KNOW I'm a fake bastard using it to virtue signal I'll just accuse you of having a problem saying please and thank you.

So hey, could you please say please and thank you.... m'kay... bygones.
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Re: Star Trek Strange New Worlds Off The Rails

Post by NotUv2 »

FYI, you're on my Ignore list, and I'm simply leaving you there from this point on. These interactions are just not fucking worth it.
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Re: Star Trek Strange New Worlds Off The Rails

Post by theScribbler »

Matthew Southworth said it best in a tweet a whiles back...

"Pay attention: Bounding Into Comics is NOT a news site. It's the Breitbart of Comicsgate, a shit-posting propaganda organ for alt-right comic dickheads. If it's posted on BIC, it's bullshit."



shevek has linked to their articles numerous times, if that's not a clue, I don't know what is! :elephant:


----
Star Trek Strange New Worlds Off The Rails? Nope. First episode was fairly good Trek. Not amazing, but good. I kinda enjoyed watching it for free on youtube (paramount plus put it there, don't know for how much longer).

Bounding Into Comics Off The Rails? Always. Always loaded with alt right Manbaby crap.

This Thread with OP referencing BIC, gone Off The Rails? Yep, totally predictable, yet pretty funny. Mr. X's Tucker Carlson impression is second to none.

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Mr X.jpg (31 KiB) Viewed 868 times


Hey, is this in the phantom zone! X-cellent!

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Cover your eyes! & ears!
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Re: Star Trek Strange New Worlds Off The Rails

Post by MightyHypnotic »

I renamed it Off The Rails. The Original topic is still in place. It's a great feature of this software that I forgot existed. Whenever someone decides to derail the original topic, I can simply split the topic at that point, take all those cancer posts, rename it, remove it from the recent topic list and throw it in here. Hence the name "Off The Rails".
Get it? This way the original topic stays...ON TOPIC. Feel free to shit post until you all get it out of your system for now. Just block each other, it's much easier.
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Re: Star Trek Strange New Worlds Off The Rails

Post by Mr. X »

1965 Star Trek - Character Uhura is played by a black woman, 4th in command of the ship. IN 1965!

2022 Woke Star Trek - Oh look, we're angels! We replaced Uhura with a black woman and nobody has ever done that ever. We're cutting edge and different. See how diverse we are. And we'll keep reminding you of our angel quality over and over and over and if you get sick of us masturbating to our own grandeur then you have an issue with diversity. Cause, in 57 years NOBODY has ever had a diverse character on a show ever.
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Re: Star Trek Strange New Worlds Off The Rails

Post by theScribbler »

MightyHypnotic wrote: 4 months ago I renamed it Off The Rails. The Original topic is still in place. It's a great feature of this software that I forgot existed. Whenever someone decides to derail the original topic, I can simply split the topic at that point, take all those cancer posts, rename it, remove it from the recent topic list and throw it in here. Hence the name "Off The Rails".
Get it? This way the original topic stays...ON TOPIC. Feel free to shit post until you all get it out of your system for now. Just block each other, it's much easier.
Yep. Get it. As above post explains it. Couldn't have guessed before. :cap:

BTW, did you know Phantom Zone topics show up on the Active Topics page with no indication they're from the Phantom Zone. Might be good to exclude Phantom Zone topics from showing up there, cut down on PZ crap threads traffic. Just a thought.
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it's Xmas Activism! :christmas:

:lynda1:
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it's Dark Haired Women Activism!

Be very careful!
Don't B indoctrinated!
Cover your eyes! & ears!
:tv:
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Re: Star Trek Strange New Worlds Off The Rails

Post by MightyHypnotic »

That's a very good point.
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Re: Star Trek Strange New Worlds Off The Rails

Post by Dazzle1 »

theScribbler wrote: 4 months ago Matthew Southworth said it best in a tweet a whiles back...

"Pay attention: Bounding Into Comics is NOT a news site. It's the Breitbart of Comicsgate, a shit-posting propaganda organ for alt-right comic dickheads. If it's posted on BIC, it's bullshit."



shevek has linked to their articles numerous times, if that's not a clue, I don't know what is! :elephant:


----
Star Trek Strange New Worlds Off The Rails? Nope. First episode was fairly good Trek. Not amazing, but good. I kinda enjoyed watching it for free on youtube (paramount plus put it there, don't know for how much longer).

Bounding Into Comics Off The Rails? Always. Always loaded with alt right Manbaby crap.

This Thread with OP referencing BIC, gone Off The Rails? Yep, totally predictable, yet pretty funny. Mr. X's Tucker Carlson impression is second to none.


Mr X.jpg
Bounding into Comics is a lot more relliable than say the Mary Sue.

Conservative news sources are more honest than left wing ones like MSNBC or the Guardian


Hey, is this in the phantom zone! X-cellent!

:cap:
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Re: Star Trek Strange New Worlds Off The Rails

Post by Femina »

Holy cow.... for about four or five minutes I thought THIS crop of self congratulatory SMUDGED attack slurs was its own LEGITIMATE topic thread! I was just like 'this crop of political BS is acceptable again!? WTF!?'

Then I got to the end and saw MH's explanation.

*WHEW* You do good work sir!
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