What is it about do-gooding heroines defeated that is so hot?

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scheiner
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I've really gotten into the whole genre and plot of the do-gooding save the world babe, being taken down, defeated humiliated, ravaged. Beyond just superheroines. But since this is SHF, I'll keep it focused on Superheroines as the ultimate example of that. They are the superpowered Good Girls who fight the Bad Guys, villains and evil. So why do we like them defeated so bad? I mean they don't always have to be perfect angels. They can be more ruthless violent vigilante types. But even that is like fanaticism for a good cause.

Its not that a supervillainess taken down like Catwoman can't be hot. Although even she is more of an anti-hero these days. But at least for me the do-gooderism of the superheroine is what makes her such a tasty target. Her haughty hand on the hips, self-righteous speeches.

I've thought of some theories myself

It could be she really isn't such a "good girl", and giving her a forced orgasm exposes its all a façade, fraud, fake, hypocrite. She actually enjoys evil sexually. The ultimate example of the good girl surrendering to the bad boy.

Or maybe you do genuinely admire, respect, look up to her. And yet there is still a guilty pleasure in seeing the woman you most admire utterly degraded.

It's just a paradox how I love seeing the women who fight for all that's good in the world, all that I believe in, fall on their face, fail utterly, be completely defeated and humiliated. And its not an incidental part of it. It's not only because she's beautiful and powerful. The do-gooding save the world attitude definitely adds a lot to it. Maybe it makes her seem all the more pathetic. The woman who was going to take down evil and save the whole world, is so completely helpless herself and needs to be rescued.

Why does Good falling to Evil in a sexual way feel so good?
ThatOnePervert
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Thinking about it, for me at least. a lot of it comes down to confidence. A Superheroine has the physical confidence to put on a sexy costume make herself known to world and declare to evil that she's there to stop it. It's like a direct challenge to the villains, her very costumed existence daring them to try something. The confidence is sexy and it can be even sexier to watch it be subverted. I think part of the reason so many people find evil characters charming is because of the confidence it takes to break the social norm and so a villain who is defeating a heroine is essentially engaging in a test of wills, their determination and confidence against hers. Basically power play seems like the root of a lot of superheroine fetishism.
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Mr. X
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I don't try to analyses fetishes. I think that's impossible. Fetishes by their nature tend to be irrational.
awsman
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For me, even going back to being a kid I always had a fascination with stories where the villain triumphed over the hero - if not ultimately (which never really happened except in a "What if?" scenario), then at least besting the hero in a fair fight, or something along those lines. It wasn't sexual back then, of course, but the more soundly the protagonist was beaten, and the more humiliating it would've been for them, the more thrilling I found it, in a taboo, "This isn't supposed to be happening!" kind of way.

That excitement over stories of evil beating good never really faded, so naturally when I got older and started to notice heroines (and women in general) in a different way, it was only a matter of time until I stumbled across porn of a superheroine being defeated and ravaged to make for the most complete and degrading downfall possible ... and that was that.
dq15ww
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I'm attracted to strong sexy females competing and struggling. Watching them getting defeated is a bonus. And It doesn't always have to be violent. I'm also attracted to women battling it out in a friendly game of soccer or basketball

Like the poster above, I'm also fascinated with the bad guy winning. In addition to SHIP, I also like to fantasize women, preferably a queen, in battle armor fighting it out on a medieval battlefield. The queen fights in battle to defend her king, but is defeated/killed in battle, which leads to the king being conquered by his enemies.
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DonShip
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I think Mr. X is right. I find it hard to analyze my super heroine fetish. If heroines were real, and one of them was defeated and violated like in one of my books, I would be HORRIFIED. But, in fiction and comics... You can't get too salacious with a heroine's defeat. Sometimes I worry about me. LOL
Damselbinder

I think part of my reason for preferring virtuous, good-doing ladies as the subjects of the kind of fantasy that's indulged in on this site is that in a strange way it feels less... sadistic to me than, say, a supervillainess being captured (etc). It's the fact that they DON'T deserve what's happening; that's it's not a PUNISHMENT, that helps me to enjoy it more than I would otherwise. It helps it to feel more, like... sensually scandalous, a thrilling topsy-turvy reversal of how things should be, which is appealing to me.
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argento
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Superheroines have asymmetrical power relationships with the villain, as they have sex with signs of resistance and conflict, such as master-submissive, boss-servant, boss-employee, cop-arrested, etc. They are so hot because that power role is established.

Theoretical background (Source eumed.net/).
Power can be divided into two categories, symmetrical and asymmetrical. The former emphasizes the benign and common character and believes in the capacity for collective and harmonious work. The asymmetric presupposes social and political relations with signs of resistance and conflict.
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Widestance
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It's the dramatic effect. The more virtuous the heroine, the more compelling her defeat. The capture of weak, slutty, whiny women does nothing for me.

I like both super heroine fantasies and cop shows where the female detective is abducted. Lots of cop shows (Hunter, SVU, Pacific Blue, T.J. Hooker) have episodes where the lead female detective gets kidnapped and tied up. Producers must know there's a market for that stuff. Villainy over virtue. It's sexy stuff.
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Widestance wrote:
2 years ago
It's the dramatic effect. The more virtuous the heroine, the more compelling her defeat. The capture of weak, slutty, whiny women does nothing for me.

I like both super heroine fantasies and cop shows where the female detective is abducted. Lots of cop shows (Hunter, SVU, Pacific Blue, T.J. Hooker) have episodes where the lead female detective gets kidnapped and tied up. Producers must know there's a market for that stuff. Villainy over virtue. It's sexy stuff.
It goes back even earlier with the 1960s adventure shows like the British TV show The Avengers or American shows like The Girl from U.N.C.L.E..
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DrDominator9
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I think The Bionic Woman had more sleepy take-downs of Lindsay Wagner than any other show of its kind, bar none.
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Mr. X
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DrDominator9 wrote:
2 years ago
I think The Bionic Woman had more sleepy take-downs of Lindsay Wagner than any other show of its kind, bar none.
I remember 18 Wheels of Justice had a really nice chloro episode where the lady cop gets taken down a few times. Would make a good video scenario. Also BJ and the Bear had a two parter chloro extravaganza. Oh those were the days.
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shevek
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Mr. X wrote:
2 years ago
DrDominator9 wrote:
2 years ago
I think The Bionic Woman had more sleepy take-downs of Lindsay Wagner than any other show of its kind, bar none.
I remember 18 Wheels of Justice had a really nice chloro episode where the lady cop gets taken down a few times. Would make a good video scenario. Also BJ and the Bear had a two parter chloro extravaganza. Oh those were the days.
Or to quote Human League from Octopus:
"Here's a song / About living in the past / If it was so good then / How come it didn't last?
If it helps you / I'll put it in a phrase / Those were the times/ But these are the days."

In other words...the 60s/70s/80s were our inspiration, but the power is now in our hands to do it ourselves with our DSLRs.
I would love to see a series about the saga of "Chloroformaster" - his origin story and of course his continuous quest
to chloroform as many superheroines as possible. Of course, it is Adam Warren's character name from Empowered, but I would imagine he'd be flattered someone thought of using it. Or you could ask him.

[P.S. DC Comics also had a character called Chloroform who was the leader of the Gas Gang - enemies of the Metal Men - but he looked pretty stupid, like a Dalek. I think he had really short arms.]
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Mr. X
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shevek wrote:
2 years ago

[P.S. DC Comics also had a character called Chloroform who was the leader of the Gas Gang - enemies of the Metal Men - but he looked pretty stupid, like a Dalek. I think he had really short arms.]
That was in Batman the Brave and the Bold. Funny thing was the metal men were also effected by him.
Dazzle1
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scheiner wrote:
2 years ago
I've really gotten into the whole genre and plot of the do-gooding save the world babe, being taken down, defeated humiliated, ravaged. Beyond just superheroines. But since this is SHF, I'll keep it focused on Superheroines as the ultimate example of that. They are the superpowered Good Girls who fight the Bad Guys, villains and evil. So why do we like them defeated so bad? I mean they don't always have to be perfect angels. They can be more ruthless violent vigilante types. But even that is like fanaticism for a good cause.

Its not that a supervillainess taken down like Catwoman can't be hot. Although even she is more of an anti-hero these days. But at least for me the do-gooderism of the superheroine is what makes her such a tasty target. Her haughty hand on the hips, self-righteous speeches.

I've thought of some theories myself

It could be she really isn't such a "good girl", and giving her a forced orgasm exposes its all a façade, fraud, fake, hypocrite. She actually enjoys evil sexually. The ultimate example of the good girl surrendering to the bad boy.

Or maybe you do genuinely admire, respect, look up to her. And yet there is still a guilty pleasure in seeing the woman you most admire utterly degraded.

It's just a paradox how I love seeing the women who fight for all that's good in the world, all that I believe in, fall on their face, fail utterly, be completely defeated and humiliated. And its not an incidental part of it. It's not only because she's beautiful and powerful. The do-gooding save the world attitude definitely adds a lot to it. Maybe it makes her seem all the more pathetic. The woman who was going to take down evil and save the whole world, is so completely helpless herself and needs to be rescued.

Why does Good falling to Evil in a sexual way feel so good?
Perhaps for many of us, there is the joy (tinged with jealousy and envy) of seeing the powerful brought down and humiliated. A sports analogy, many people like to see the udefeated team lose
Dazzle1
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scheiner wrote:
2 years ago
I've really gotten into the whole genre and plot of the do-gooding save the world babe, being taken down, defeated humiliated, ravaged. Beyond just superheroines. But since this is SHF, I'll keep it focused on Superheroines as the ultimate example of that. They are the superpowered Good Girls who fight the Bad Guys, villains and evil. So why do we like them defeated so bad? I mean they don't always have to be perfect angels. They can be more ruthless violent vigilante types. But even that is like fanaticism for a good cause.

Its not that a supervillainess taken down like Catwoman can't be hot. Although even she is more of an anti-hero these days. But at least for me the do-gooderism of the superheroine is what makes her such a tasty target. Her haughty hand on the hips, self-righteous speeches.

I've thought of some theories myself

It could be she really isn't such a "good girl", and giving her a forced orgasm exposes its all a façade, fraud, fake, hypocrite. She actually enjoys evil sexually. The ultimate example of the good girl surrendering to the bad boy.

Or maybe you do genuinely admire, respect, look up to her. And yet there is still a guilty pleasure in seeing the woman you most admire utterly degraded.

It's just a paradox how I love seeing the women who fight for all that's good in the world, all that I believe in, fall on their face, fail utterly, be completely defeated and humiliated. And its not an incidental part of it. It's not only because she's beautiful and powerful. The do-gooding save the world attitude definitely adds a lot to it. Maybe it makes her seem all the more pathetic. The woman who was going to take down evil and save the whole world, is so completely helpless herself and needs to be rescued.

Why does Good falling to Evil in a sexual way feel so good?
Perhaps for many of us, there is the joy (tinged with jealousy and envy) of seeing the powerful brought down and humiliated. A sports analogy, many people like to see the undefeated team lose
awsman
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Dazzle1 wrote:
2 years ago
scheiner wrote:
2 years ago
I've really gotten into the whole genre and plot of the do-gooding save the world babe, being taken down, defeated humiliated, ravaged. Beyond just superheroines. But since this is SHF, I'll keep it focused on Superheroines as the ultimate example of that. They are the superpowered Good Girls who fight the Bad Guys, villains and evil. So why do we like them defeated so bad? I mean they don't always have to be perfect angels. They can be more ruthless violent vigilante types. But even that is like fanaticism for a good cause.

Its not that a supervillainess taken down like Catwoman can't be hot. Although even she is more of an anti-hero these days. But at least for me the do-gooderism of the superheroine is what makes her such a tasty target. Her haughty hand on the hips, self-righteous speeches.

I've thought of some theories myself

It could be she really isn't such a "good girl", and giving her a forced orgasm exposes its all a façade, fraud, fake, hypocrite. She actually enjoys evil sexually. The ultimate example of the good girl surrendering to the bad boy.

Or maybe you do genuinely admire, respect, look up to her. And yet there is still a guilty pleasure in seeing the woman you most admire utterly degraded.

It's just a paradox how I love seeing the women who fight for all that's good in the world, all that I believe in, fall on their face, fail utterly, be completely defeated and humiliated. And its not an incidental part of it. It's not only because she's beautiful and powerful. The do-gooding save the world attitude definitely adds a lot to it. Maybe it makes her seem all the more pathetic. The woman who was going to take down evil and save the whole world, is so completely helpless herself and needs to be rescued.

Why does Good falling to Evil in a sexual way feel so good?
Perhaps for many of us, there is the joy (tinged with jealousy and envy) of seeing the powerful brought down and humiliated. A sports analogy, many people like to see the undefeated team lose
I think that is a big part of it. In any other media, the heroine is the favorite; she’s “supposed” to win. So seeing that expectation get subverted is inherently exciting, especially once you introduce sexual humiliation.
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Mr. X
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I never understood feet or poo or peeing or Vampire or SHIPs or popping balloons but I don't ask people about them since fetishes are not logically derived. I think there is no clear way to answer the question anymore than asking why you like a certain ice cream flavor. Triggers are triggers.
Damselbinder

Mr. X wrote:
2 years ago
I never understood feet or poo or peeing or Vampire or SHIPs or popping balloons but I don't ask people about them since fetishes are not logically derived. I think there is no clear way to answer the question anymore than asking why you like a certain ice cream flavor. Triggers are triggers.
X can we please stop just trying to shut this - quite pleasant - conversation down? There is no universal answer, of course, but why can't people just talk about why they think they like the thing they like?
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Mr. X
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Damselbinder wrote:
2 years ago
Mr. X wrote:
2 years ago
I never understood feet or poo or peeing or Vampire or SHIPs or popping balloons but I don't ask people about them since fetishes are not logically derived. I think there is no clear way to answer the question anymore than asking why you like a certain ice cream flavor. Triggers are triggers.
X can we please stop just trying to shut this - quite pleasant - conversation down? There is no universal answer, of course, but why can't people just talk about why they think they like the thing they like?
No one is attacking you. Stop going to red alert.
Damselbinder

Mr. X wrote:
2 years ago
Damselbinder wrote:
2 years ago
Mr. X wrote:
2 years ago
I never understood feet or poo or peeing or Vampire or SHIPs or popping balloons but I don't ask people about them since fetishes are not logically derived. I think there is no clear way to answer the question anymore than asking why you like a certain ice cream flavor. Triggers are triggers.
X can we please stop just trying to shut this - quite pleasant - conversation down? There is no universal answer, of course, but why can't people just talk about why they think they like the thing they like?
No one is attacking you. Stop going to red alert.
I was never under that impression. I was barely involved in the conversation. If you think my polite request was "going to red alert" then I don't know what to tell you.
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Mr. X
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Damselbinder wrote:
2 years ago
I was never under that impression. I was barely involved in the conversation. If you think my polite request was "going to red alert" then I don't know what to tell you.
Why do you think I'm trying to shut anything down. Just presenting a different view that these things are not really explainable. Just have fun with your kink.
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I disagree. Sometimes these things are explainable. We may be able to make reasonable deductions about the ingredients of our own arousal. We may even make deductions about common and likely ingredients in the interests of others, with greatly varying degrees of soundness.

But if your arousal isn't hurting anyone, don't feel introspection or explanation is necessary to justify it, or that such efforts are necessarily beneficial.
awsman
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Mr. X wrote:
2 years ago
Damselbinder wrote:
2 years ago
I was never under that impression. I was barely involved in the conversation. If you think my polite request was "going to red alert" then I don't know what to tell you.
Why do you think I'm trying to shut anything down. Just presenting a different view that these things are not really explainable. Just have fun with your kink.
Can’t speak for DB, but I’d guess they got that impression because you posted twice in the same thread that there’s no point in having the discussion because fetishes are unexplainable. Kinda comes off like you’re irked by the discussion happening at all. Otherwise, why return to restate the same point?
sneakly
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MHO
I have never been that fond of the grabbing of random women in stories or videos. It smacks of the female becomes a “victim”, which happens to much in real life. Heroines like Batgirl are active participants in their perils, they chose to put on their costume to fight villains, and, if caught face bondage, sexual assault and life threatening perils. The villains know the heroines are adrenaline junkies and in their weird universe will not simply shoot the heroines (unless it it the culmination of some freaky Rube Goldbergian trap). The women get heightened arousal knowing their next forced orgasm could be their last (or at least bring them an inch closer to death…), sort of an extreme variation on autoerotic asphyxiation, the high stakes intensify the stimulation for heroines and villains, or villainesses.

The villains are obvious participants in this fetishization of crime, devising elaborate ways to lure heroines in and designing sado-sexual methods to take them out. Batgirl, O-girl or Penelope Pitstop never make any real effort to have outside authorities intervene to catch the villain. Penelope Pitstop (admittedly not a superheroine, but follows the same tropes) actively travels alone, despite knowing someone is trying kill her… and never bothers to report these repeated abductions to the police. Heroines in this genre are clearly participating for reasons other than catching bad guys….
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The sexy costume is the biggest part of the appeal for sure as well as the apparent strength of the superheroine (but with vulnerabilities/weakness nonetheless). What arm chair wouldn't want to defeat that?
Check out my superheroine-related short stories here:

https://archiveofourown.org/users/brdiy/works
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