Directing - perhaps a question for only producers

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rklein
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Directing - perhaps a question for only producers

Post by rklein »

Hello everyone,

In the past week while I have been considering making a less sex-driven, more story-focused production, a thought has come up concerning directing and how much direction that actresses in this genre will take.

Having been present for the filming of only one show, I found that to get through each scene, the director told the actresses where he wanted the scene to go and how he wanted it to end, and basically let them "wing it" with dialogue to get through the scene.

I don't think my style would allow that, however. I would want a more hands-on approach, shooting each scene from a few angles and doing a few takes to have editing options. Each scene would be short - I don't want to force anyone to have to remember too many lines and fumble over everything, but my script would be more exact with more specific lines of dialogue.

My question to experienced producers out there is, am I asking too much? I know the girls who get hired for performing know their stuff and are good at doing things on the fly, but are they willing to do multiple takes to get something "right?"

(And again, I am also entirely aware that as a new producer, my first attempt at doing this would in all likelihood end up being much less than I want it to be and I'll be lucky to get a quarter of what I want.)

Basically I guess what I'm asking is, is it realistic to expect my actresses to take my direction, or should I really just give them broad guidelines on what I'd like to see and let them interpret my thoughts as they see fit?
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Re: Directing - perhaps a question for only producers

Post by Anonon »

Speaking as someone who hasn't done specifically what you're doing, but has done a bunch of super amateurish video projects, the issue is time. If they're getting paid X dollars to show up for Y thing, you're good. But obviously your budget isn't infinite, so you're kind of encouraged to show up, smash the scene in one go, and move on to the next thing. Nobody wants to show up and do six hours of prep mixed with two hours of shooting and then get paid as if they did two hours of work. Then there's the risk that doing things your way reduces your available pool of performers.

Basically, if you can pull it off, you're probably fine, but there's a reason people avoid doing what you're talking about.
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Re: Directing - perhaps a question for only producers

Post by Mr. X »

I can say fetish models are better actresses than strippers or porn stars.
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Re: Directing - perhaps a question for only producers

Post by AvaHeinz »

rklein wrote: 5 years ago Hello everyone,

In the past week while I have been considering making a less sex-driven, more story-focused production, a thought has come up concerning directing and how much direction that actresses in this genre will take.

Having been present for the filming of only one show, I found that to get through each scene, the director told the actresses where he wanted the scene to go and how he wanted it to end, and basically let them "wing it" with dialogue to get through the scene.

I don't think my style would allow that, however. I would want a more hands-on approach, shooting each scene from a few angles and doing a few takes to have editing options. Each scene would be short - I don't want to force anyone to have to remember too many lines and fumble over everything, but my script would be more exact with more specific lines of dialogue.

My question to experienced producers out there is, am I asking too much? I know the girls who get hired for performing know their stuff and are good at doing things on the fly, but are they willing to do multiple takes to get something "right?"

(And again, I am also entirely aware that as a new producer, my first attempt at doing this would in all likelihood end up being much less than I want it to be and I'll be lucky to get a quarter of what I want.)

Basically I guess what I'm asking is, is it realistic to expect my actresses to take my direction, or should I really just give them broad guidelines on what I'd like to see and let them interpret my thoughts as they see fit?
I am a new producer, I had only a few production under my name at this moment, I had ran into the exact question you are asking. The only difference is that I only produce and I do not direct the actual shoot.

I had tried both, I once tried to have the director to micromanage every single move of the actress, and I tried to have the address free range on the motion, I can only say both don't end up too well.

Not going to bore you with a long detail, but I found out the footage come back a bit rigid when the director was involved in every move, and the shoot time quadruple when the director have to get involved with every little detail.

On the other hand, if you give our model/actress free reign, unless your model/actress is very good and most importantly, creative, otherwise it will appear lame and just like 2 person play fight. On the other hand, if your actress/model had martial art or stage combat training before and they were quite good at them, then giving them free range is not actually a bad idea.

However, the best I come up with is to basically write a script that you have dialogue and left out the action part, but you try to group the action in a sequence, Then you have the director or fight choreographer give detail instruction on that fight block, say I shoot a movie for 20 minutes and I have half of them action, I will try to group the fight into 4 block of 2 or 3 minutes continuous action, then have the director drill on those 4 block particularly and have the model/actress free range on other part or minor action (like a slap, a single punch or some simple action) That way the model know what they are supposed to do and you will have a well choreographed action scenes.

Well, that is my take on the problem. Other producer may have different program.
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Re: Directing - perhaps a question for only producers

Post by batgirl1969 »

Mr. X wrote: 5 years ago I can say fetish models are better actresses than strippers or porn stars.
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Re: Directing - perhaps a question for only producers

Post by MightyHypnotic »

Dialogue takes forever to shoot. It's the biggest time consumer. Actresses will flub lines, won't have the right inflection, etc etc. It's a conundrum. Real actresses can nail dialogue quickly but they don't want to be associated with fetish. Most fetish models aren't as skilled as actresses but will usually get it down with more direction. The best bet is to hire girls that know each other. Directing is a snap when the girls like each other and are used to working together. And they usually won't flake!

Bottom line the more the director gets involved the longer the shoot will take. 2 angles is usually enough. Keep dialogue short. If an actress has to remember long diatribes it's going to be a long day.
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Re: Directing - perhaps a question for only producers

Post by Zee »

Hi, I am not a producer but I have had customs filmed which were story based and contained plenty of violence and torture. They usually took two days of filming, some with outdoor settings. The director took my concept/scenario and wrote a detailed script and dialogue. I think that the women were professional actresses. They were equally awesome in peril and aggressor roles. From what I can gather from his Patreon account, he also does his own editing.
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Re: Directing - perhaps a question for only producers

Post by Valik10 »

Agree with MH the more dialagoue have in a script the worse it is. These models arent actresses and most will cringe if they see a script with lots of lines or even small segments with scripted dialogue especially if you are going to shoot and reshoot a scene 2,3 times they wikll get frustrated. Not to mention you wil never get the exact words done as you want them from take to take. I found in my early scripts I tried that and quickly abandoned that in favor of clearly setting the scene,what the heroine is doing,what the villain/villainess is doing etc and going from there. They have been there and done that with these productions and will usually deliver. Short and sweet wins every time vs wasting time on dialogue. If there are lines you definitley think you need then keep it to a minimum.
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Re: Directing - perhaps a question for only producers

Post by rklein »

Damn.....deep down I know MH and Valik are right and dialogue will take forever....but I just wish that weren't the case!

The core of a non-sex story would be drama, and that would require interaction and spoken dialogue.
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Re: Directing - perhaps a question for only producers

Post by dajinx1 »

Hi Rklein,
I think the most important question is the talent you're hiring/working with. If you're dealing with "models", long scripts and meticulous shooting might be a little more challenging but if you work with "actresses" then multiple takes, longer scripts and more in depth direction is something they would be fine with. This is why, when I look for new talent I do auditions. I give the prospects a simple script to read from, just a few lines and then have them do a few test punches and kicks. I inform them first before they come to auditions of the sample script read and test action scenes.

For your first shoot, I suggest keeping it simple since you're feeling things out and also with the new talent. A short and simple script like 6 or 7 pages (For me, 1 page is 1 hour of shooting) and a small cast. Are you doing a lot of action for your script? For me, action takes longer to shoot than dialogue.
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Re: Directing - perhaps a question for only producers

Post by Zee »

Let me also add that I knew up front that my custom was going to be a 2 day shoot and so I paid the producer 2 days worth of salary to each actress. Also, having the benefit of seeing clips on his Patreon account you can hear him giving very detailed instructions to the actresses. The out takes which he posted were hilarious.
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Re: Directing - perhaps a question for only producers

Post by Mr. X »

Plus dialog results in the giggles and that can waste a whole lotta time.
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Re: Directing - perhaps a question for only producers

Post by rklein »

I've got about four-five scenes for a PG production worked out.

I know what the cost is for performers, when they are expected to take off their clothes for the camera. But not sure what the going rate is when they aren't. Do the same girls perform at a rate any cheaper?

I also wonder how long my production would turn out to be....really.... In my mind it's boom-boom-boom, hit all the points and the scene is done in under a minute. And since my story idea itself is only a few scenes so far, it'd be done in less than 10 minutes.....not exactly an epic storyline that would be worthy of people's attention.

Might Hypnotic....if you read this and have the time, contact me. I've got a few ideas to bounce off you.
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Re: Directing - perhaps a question for only producers

Post by swampy170 »

rklein wrote: 5 years ago I've got about four-five scenes for a PG production worked out.

I know what the cost is for performers, when they are expected to take off their clothes for the camera. But not sure what the going rate is when they aren't. Do the same girls perform at a rate any cheaper?

I also wonder how long my production would turn out to be....really.... In my mind it's boom-boom-boom, hit all the points and the scene is done in under a minute. And since my story idea itself is only a few scenes so far, it'd be done in less than 10 minutes.....not exactly an epic storyline that would be worthy of people's attention.

Might Hypnotic....if you read this and have the time, contact me. I've got a few ideas to bounce off you.
Define "PG".

If you're talking true vanilla content, hire actresses not fetish models. Roles with actual action which are beyond extra work - you can hire actors to work on such scenes for a fraction of the rates expected by a model.

It all depends on what your criteria is, and the content you are shooting - and indeed the context in which you intend to present your film. Will it be on Youtube? Or Clips4Sale? The former, go for mainstream actors.

As for if Fetish models have varying rates - yes.

But, do you have a name for yourself and good references? - If a totally unknown producer, you'll struggle to get the best rates.
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Re: Directing - perhaps a question for only producers

Post by tallyho »

This thread is 4 years old
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Re: Directing - perhaps a question for only producers

Post by MightyHypnotic »

I would like to add to my previous comment.

NEVER LET THE TALENT WING IT!

(Unless you know they're very good at that sort of thing)
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Re: Directing - perhaps a question for only producers

Post by thesuperheroines »

Hey there,

I've done all kinds of directing/producing and did much trial and error to figure out what worked best for me. Many other producers have done the same for themselves.

I would be more than willing to offer advice if you want it. A lot of good feedback has already come from others but I do want to point out that your intention of making the film matters a lot. Is it because you want something for yourself? Do you want to express creativity? Do you want to make a living or supplemental income producing?

These questions will absolutely change your budget and your answers.

I started out wanting my scripts done my way. I was very specific on much of it. I always gave some flexibility to actors because I believe that's best for the creative process. But over time, I realized that the more creative control I let go of, the more I could accomplish and the better the end result would be.

In the end, 90% of our Mystic Dragon catalog (most of the Dragon Lair productions) are 100% improv, including the fight scenes. We set some guidelines for story flow and safety but these films are direct creations of the actors.

So all that to say this: what is your reason for doing this?
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