Living in the shadow of the corona virus

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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

Post by tallyho »

Another near 2000 US dead yesterday. That's back at the daily levels last November, Pre vaccine.
Unless you use the solution to stop this, then you aren't going to stop this.
How strange are the ways of the gods ...........and how cruel.

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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

Post by tallyho »

bushwackerbob wrote: 2 months ago
I just looked it up, I was slightly off. The U.S mortality rate is 1.6%, (we were talking about COVID mandates in the U.S) and that number may be high as some deaths with folks dead from other causes, but tested positive for COVID were termed COVID related deaths.
BUT its also probably mitigated by Covid deaths that aren't identified as such.

Have you seen anything on the long term health issues figures? I only saw that 15-20% figure a few times several months back. So maybe lower maybe higher now but either way it's gotta be in double figures, which for me is too high a proportion to allow.

I have probably come across as more adversarial here than I intended, but I find the personal freedom argument specious when it's not only the individual but society as a whole that gets put at risk by that individuals choice. If the choice to jab or not jab only affected you then it's your choice to live or die. If your choice puts others in direct harms way then clearly YOU are impinging upon their right to exist.

Look at what happened with Typhoid Mary, incarcerated (in effect) rather than letting her roam around infecting and killing people. Her personal freedoms were sacrificed for the good of society. This is no different.
How strange are the ways of the gods ...........and how cruel.

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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

Post by bushwackerbob »

We can agree to disagree about the mortality rates, but I will say this in regards to that, in about mid 2020 or so, according to the CDC most age groups up to the age up to about 60 were in the 99.-98. something percent mortality range. I doubt those mortality rates have changed since last year. The word freedom has been tossed around a lot indeed by misguided antivaxers, but I think the vaccine hesitancy aspect goes deeper than that, it has to do with a deep distrust of government and institutions, and whether they are indeed working in the public's interest or lying to the masses for their own purposes. A vaccine that was fast tracked without the usual oversight, safeguards, and what do we know about long term side effects of taking this vaccine. These questions and distrust of institutions did not dissuade me in the least from getting the vaccine, but I can see the other side of the argument. The key word I see with these antivaxers is not freedom, it is words like uncomfortable, skeptical, and apprehensive. I don't want to impose my will on those folks for what for most healthy folks is a 1% mortality rate. I vehemently oppose their POV, but I try to do something found increasingly rare in social media, and the world in general, I try and empathize with them instead of demonizing, bullying, or demeaning those good folks. Just got the updated CDC numbers, survival rate by age

0-19 99.997%
20-49 99.98%
50-69 99.5%
70+ 94.6%

And we want to literally force folks to get the vaccine?
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

Post by tallyho »

No I wasn't asking about mortality rates I meant the percentage of long term health problems in those who have it and do recover? I just wondered if you had seen anything more up to date than what I was quoting
My point is if it is between 1-3% death rate PLUS the 15-20% of those affected by long term serious health issues then its much more acceptable an imposition in my view if you are looking at 1 in 5 or 1 in 8 dead or with long term health issues. (I'm a chronic asthmatic and I know how debilitating such things can be)
As I say you are getting 2000 dead a day and most of those people are unvaccinated and dont need to die. But as long as the unvaccinated are spreading it (and 1 in 3 Covid carriers show no symptoms) there's more and more chance of stronger variants resistant to the jab
How strange are the ways of the gods ...........and how cruel.

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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

Post by bushwackerbob »

tallyho wrote: 2 months ago No I wasn't asking about mortality rates I meant the percentage of long term health problems in those who have it and do recover? I just wondered if you had seen anything more up to date than what I was quoting
My point is if it is between 1-3% death rate PLUS the 15-20% of those affected by long term serious health issues then its much more acceptable an imposition in my view if you are looking at 1 in 5 or 1 in 8 dead or with long term health issues. (I'm a chronic asthmatic and I know how debilitating such things can be)
As I say you are getting 2000 dead a day and most of those people are unvaccinated and dont need to die. But as long as the unvaccinated are spreading it (and 1 in 3 Covid carriers show no symptoms) there's more and more chance of stronger variants resistant to the jab
No I have not. I am genuinely sorry and regretful for folks who have long term health issues, for U.S citizens for whom the Constitution is a fairly big thing, those long term health issues are not as relevant to the discussion as mortality rates in my view. While your point is well taken and I will take the time to research it further, the question of long term health problems, while an extremely important point, is not even really a part of the conversation going on here in the U.S right now. You are quite right, the unvaccinated are dying needlessly, but unfortunately those folks have made their choices. I don't think the President will ever mandate everybody outright get the vaccine, but he may make it so difficult for folks to live and enjoy certain parts of their lives that he will in effect backdoor compel folks to get the shot. Politicians imposing their will on their constituents has never gone over very well here in the USA.
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

Post by McGheeny »

I appreciate how personal this topic has become in our lifetime, and how regrettable. I come to this forum to share my appreciation for superheroines and the peril genre with other fantastic like-minded individuals. Unfortunately covid is a part of today’s world, BUT, it ISN’T the beginning of the “Walking Dead”. I respect personal choice and I am wholeheartedly against government creep. My friends, you must be able to step back and assess the entire situation for what it is, before viciously attacking another individual’s right to control their own life.

I am not being heartless, just making sure the truth is presented. The ultimate truth is, NO ONE should have EVER died from covid. There is no hard data that proves non-vaccinated persons are getting covid more frequently, or dying from covid, than vaccinated persons. There IS proof that vaccinated persons are STILL getting covid. Fact, significantly more people get covid and survive without side effects then all of those who have passed away from covid. Fact, those who have had covid and recovered have antigens in their body that are 27 times more effective in fighting covid than ANY vaccine. Fact, millions of unvaccinated have poured across the US border since Biden took office and there is no vaccine outcry from this same concerned public. Politicians and supporters go about their day without masks, or in many cases, vaccines, and no excited cry of “Foul”. Fact, getting vaccinated or not getting vaccinated is a personal choice that everyone is free to make. I know this virus has impacted us in very personal ways, but that is not cause for abandoning reason.

Unfortunately, there is also too much noise thrown at this situation clearly meant to cloud rational thought. All you see is how death and destruction is perpetrated by anyone who doesn’t follow the consecrated covid position. The fact that any dissenting opinion is attacked, suppressed, and extreme measures are taken attempting to discredit them is chilling. Resorting to personal attacks is the first indication your position is untenable. I am not a fan of social media (NOT a legitimate source of information), or news that is over processed and coordinated, so no mater which channel or paper you go to, the story is EXACTLY the same. In addition, any attempt to present an opposing point of view is summarily Censored or viciously attacked. To a thinking individual, that type of authoritarian action should, and would, greatly concern them. “The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it.” George Orwell.

The argument that any personal freedoms don’t stand up to someone else’s exacerbated and unsupportable concerns is flawed and just wrong. If you know the true science, and respect the facts, then a rational person would realize covid is not the end of mankind, but a vehicle of control. Which means, you DO NOT have the right to tell someone they have to give up their freedom of choice for the common good, based on faulty, and in numerous cases, FALSE information. Do the work, know the truth. Question the motivation of those pushing so hard and so fast to take away freedoms. Especially those actively attacking freedom of thought or personal choice. Be smart and take care of yourself and those you love. Don’t fall into the trap of believing a coordinated vaccination disinformation attack on the masses.
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

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tallyho wrote: 2 months ago Another near 2000 US dead yesterday. That's back at the daily levels last November, Pre vaccine.
Unless you use the solution to stop this, then you aren't going to stop this.
Ok so DOESN'T THAT TELL YOU SOMETHING?!
We have MORE people vaccinated today than pre vaccine. MORRRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEE
We have MORE mask wearers. We closed MORE businesses.

How is MORE VACCINE stopping this?

Even if only 50% of the population got vaccinated the number of death cases should be somewhat proportionally LESS. You don't need a PhD to understand that. This isn't about some vax holdouts. That's the question you're not asking. If Vaccines WORK why are there, AS YOU SAID, as many cases of death as BEFORE THE VACCINE?

You keep with your hysteria about mandating vaccines then you point out we have levels today as bad as BEFORE the vaccine.

WHAT THE F*%K GOT BETTER?!


At what point do you realize you're just chucking virgins into a volcano?

"If you stuff enough virgins into a volcano you can theoretically plug it up" Dr. Fauci.

What makes you think ANYONE can stop this?
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

Post by tallyho »

51,000 UK deaths since January, 256 of which had had the full two doses of the vaccine.
How strange are the ways of the gods ...........and how cruel.

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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

Post by Mr. X »

tallyho wrote: 2 months ago 51,000 UK deaths since January, 256 of which had had the full two doses of the vaccine.
The vaccine should also stop the spread even among unvaccinated since the vaccinated take away from the number of people who can spread it. There should be effectively less people spreading the disease... so why the high numbers?

We're distancing.
We're wearing masks.
A percentage got shots.
People lost their lively hoods and businesses.
We took a multi trillion dollar hit.
We complied complied complied.

But yet the numbers are JUST as bad as you pointed out.
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

Post by McGheeny »

Millions of people are vaccinated against influenza per year and yet hundreds of thousands die from the flu every year. Vaccines don't keep people from dying.
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

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McGheeny wrote: 2 months agoThere is no hard data that proves non-vaccinated persons are getting covid more frequently, or dying from covid, than vaccinated persons.
Nope.

AP: Nearly all COVID deaths in US are now among unvaccinated
The Guadian: 99.2% of US Covid deaths in June were unvaccinated, says Fauci.
BMJ (UK): Covid-19: Unvaccinated face 11 times risk of death from delta variant, CDC data show
There IS proof that vaccinated persons are STILL getting covid.
Yes, at significantly lower rates. And with far fewer resulting deaths. See above.
Fact, significantly more people get covid and survive without side effects then all of those who have passed away from covid.
When you say 'side effects' are you just referring to immediately noticeable side effects, or hidden internal damage to organ soft tissues? The former is mostly true, but don't assume that everyone who appears to make a full recovery are actually unscarred internally by the virus in ways that won't become apparent in decades to come. Some will be okay, many won't. We saw this pattern in previous pandemics, like the Spanish Flu -- survivors outnumber the dead, but the virus left behind damage in survivors that shortened life expectancy and caused health problems in later life.
Fact, those who have had covid and recovered have antigens in their body that are 27 times more effective in fighting covid than ANY vaccine.
It's not 27 times! Initial studies showed that natural immunity was significantly depleted after only three months, although more recent studies have shown that some Covid-19 survivors may still have some protections up to nine months after infection -- although they may be still susceptible to a milder reinfection. The key word here is 'survivor', because you have to survive the virus in order to get this protection.

Also, building up herd immunity through natural infection is a bad strategy if you want to avoid variants that may become more deadly. You're practically inviting the virus to mutate into a stronger and stronger form, in a way that it cannot do if you build herd immunity through vaccines.

(I'm assuming you're getting this stuff from a recent speech by Florida Governor (and famed anti-masker) Ron DeSantis. Here's a fact check. Keep in mind, this is also only one single study that has not been repeated yet.)
Fact, millions of unvaccinated have poured across the US border since Biden took office and there is no vaccine outcry from this same concerned public.
Nope. I realise this has been reported ad-nauseum on One America News and other far right news outlets, but there's no evidence for it.

Reuters: Fact Check-False claim about migrants and COVID-19 variants.
Politicians and supporters go about their day without masks, or in many cases, vaccines, and no excited cry of “Foul”.
Hate to break the news to you, but those Republican politicians kicking up a fuss about masks and vaccine mandates -- including Ron DeSantis in Florida, Greg Abbott in Texas -- they are vaccinated. So are their families. So are almost all of the Republicans in the House and Senate. And the people at Fox News, almost all vaccinated -- even Tucker Carlson. (Irony of ironies: Fox News has a tough vaccine/daily test employee mandate to work there.)

Guardian: Nearly all Fox staffers vaccinated for Covid even as hosts cast doubt on vaccine.
Fact, getting vaccinated or not getting vaccinated is a personal choice that everyone is free to make. I know this virus has impacted us in very personal ways, but that is not cause for abandoning reason.
However being around other people who are not vaccinated is not a personal choice that people are free to make. In the same way that getting behind the wheel of a car while blind drunk is a personal choice, but being hit by a drunken driver is not. No man is an island, as John Donne observed, and because of that we sometimes have to do things not for the selfish benefit of ourselves, but for the selfless benefit of other. In extreme cases, when our reckless actions may cause serious harm to others, we may even need to be compelled by law.
Unfortunately, there is also too much noise thrown at this situation clearly meant to cloud rational thought. All you see is how death and destruction is perpetrated by anyone who doesn’t follow the consecrated covid position. The fact that any dissenting opinion is attacked, suppressed, and extreme measures are taken attempting to discredit them is chilling.
Don't mistake people pointing out your ignorance for suppression of free speech. Although social media networks have taken down some extreme examples of misinformation when there is a real threat of it causing harm, for example, their overwhelming main tactic has been to add little fact-check boxed beneath disputed claims.
“The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it.” George Orwell.
Of course, this is premised on the assumption that you are the one with the truth. Because if you're just someone who is parroting propaganda they were spoon fed via a charismatic figure who appears in your living room via a screen (to take up the Nineteen Eighty Four motif -- although Fox and OAN work just as well), then those people who you think are heaping hate upon the truth are actually just trying to stop you from being gaslit.
The argument that any personal freedoms don’t stand up to someone else’s exacerbated and unsupportable concerns is flawed and just wrong.
I think the argument is more accurately that personal freedoms don't stand up to someone else's dead body.

(I mean, if all the Covid-19 virus did was make people feel mildly offended, then you'd have a point -- but I think the evidence shows catching it can be a little bit more deadly than that.)
If you know the true science, and respect the facts, then a rational person would realize covid is not the end of mankind, but a vehicle of control.


Oh oh... let me guess... is it the Jews? Is it the Jews? Come on... it has to be the Jews! They're so good at all that secretly controlling the world from shadowy cabals stuff.

No? The Illuminati then? No..?

Don't tell me it's Tom Hanks! Bloody Tom Hanks!! (I knew it! I knew it! As soon as he won the Oscar for Forrest Gump, I knew there must be some kind of conspiracy going on!)
Which means, you DO NOT have the right to tell someone they have to give up their freedom of choice for the common good, based on faulty, and in numerous cases, FALSE information. Do the work, know the truth. Question the motivation of those pushing so hard and so fast to take away freedoms. Especially those actively attacking freedom of thought or personal choice. Be smart and take care of yourself and those you love. Don’t fall into the trap of believing a coordinated vaccination disinformation attack on the masses.
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Yeahhhh! Don't listen to doctors and experts and PhD's -- what do they know anyway? "soccermon83" on Facebook is the person you should trust. She heard that the vaccine changes your RNA; that post was shared over a thousand times, and that makes it true! (Yes RNA! Not DNA, RNA apparently! Like humans are Triffids or something.)

Jonathan Swift observed that you can't reason someone out of a position they did not reason themselves into. The sad situation we have now is that social media and certain news organisations (and I use the term cautiously, given that even some of Fox News' former anchors are worried about the turn it has taken after last November) have created an echo chamber that amplifies lies and bad information. And those that are sucked in are convinced that they (and only they) have the truth, and anyone who opposes them must be the deluded ones. As we have seen from people who have escaped Q-Anon, the sense of anger and upset people feel when the bubble bursts and they realise that they were being lied to all along (to drive ratings, or campaign donations) can be quite extreme.

We live in interesting times... :laugh:

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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

Post by five_red »

Mr. X wrote: 2 months ago
tallyho wrote: 2 months ago 51,000 UK deaths since January, 256 of which had had the full two doses of the vaccine.
The vaccine should also stop the spread even among unvaccinated since the vaccinated take away from the number of people who can spread it. There should be effectively less people spreading the disease... so why the high numbers?

We're distancing.
We're wearing masks.
A percentage got shots.
People lost their lively hoods and businesses.
We took a multi trillion dollar hit.
We complied complied complied.

But yet the numbers are JUST as bad as you pointed out.
The reason is two fold: (1) because the people who are not vaccinated are precisely the types of people who are not distancing, nor wearing masks, nor washing their hands; and (2) the virus got several times better at spreading itself, so even though there's less potential hosts, it is better at acquiring a host.

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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

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five_red wrote: 2 months ago The reason is two fold: (1) because the people who are not vaccinated are precisely the types of people who are not distancing, nor wearing masks, nor washing their hands; and (2) the virus got several times better at spreading itself, so even though there's less potential hosts, it is better at acquiring a host.

R5
1) You have NO statistical evidence of this. For example Obama's big party he had last month had lots of people who did not wear masks. And everyone washes their hands. If ANYTHING the spreaders are in big cities packed together, not rural hill billies nobody cares about anyway. And antifa and BLM rallies and pride parades have tons of people who don't wear masks. I can show pics of that if you like.

2) Then vaccine applications are chasing something you can't beat and you're just making the virus stronger. Virus bad - stronger virus... really bad. In fact, given your statement, the people who get vaccinated are actually making things WORSE for everyone else.

So when are the people with 4 shots going to complain the people with 3 shots are filthy lower class rednecks who are causing all the problems?
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

Post by Imagineer »

The real delusion is reawakening this thread with the idea that any post can overcome the smoke and stench of the smoldering garbage.
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

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Imagineer wrote: 2 months ago The real delusion is reawakening this thread with the idea that any post can overcome the smoke and stench of the smoldering garbage.
True. I'll back down.
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

Post by Femina »

Just get 'A' Vaccine ffs. It's no great guess that the people point blank REFUSING to vaccinate are in similar circles as the groups who refuse to wear a mask/refuse to change their lifestyle to anything cautious they consider an imposition of their daily lives. we DO have statistical evidence for this shit. It's all around us and reported on near continuously. The death count for which has been kept up by Tallyho in this very thread for almost a year now.

My Grandfather is in the ICU almost certainly about to die from it because he A: Refused to get a vaccine and went to lunch with my equally unvaccinated cousin where they were exposed by a maskless dolt coughing his lungs out in a public place. My guess is that guy was unvaccinated as well... but we can't know that. I have it and I've been vaccinated... but just so, you don't find me exposing vulnerable human beings to it in restaurants and if I HAVE to be out in public for any reason I wear a mask and ensure I keep people very far away from me.

You're being deliberately obtuse. Vaccine's and disease control have worked in the past to great effect. We have all but eradicated illnesses before and prevented their resurgence via vaccines induced after birth. Covid isn't getting stronger because of Vaccines, that's the assumption of a retarded backbirth moron who knows nothing about anything. Well researched and informed virology is very clear on the fact that Covid is growing stronger because it is being allowed to MUTATE in the hundreds of thousands of host bodies of uninformed FOOLS who have decided to view the disease in a political light rather than take adequate precautions and listen to the people who are informed about this shit. The people who are vaccinated aren't getting sick with the SAME Covid 19 they are vaccinated for, we're getting sick from the mutant babies of the original virus that was fathered by malignant ignorance.

In this age of Flat Earthers of course, it's becoming harder and harder to just tolerate deliberate stupidity... but you know what? At least flat earthers aren't aiding in the spread of a killer and bitching about how it isn't their fault. From where I'm standing if you refuse to take the vaccine you DESERVE to be labeled a filthy low class redneck who is causing the problem, because only laziest, most slefish son of a bitch in the world would refuse to get a simple shot that might ruin their day to protect and preserve themselves and others in the long run.

So fuck you, everyone who remains unvaccinated, fuck you whoever aren't wearing a mask, you don't deserve to be catered to and defended. You're part of the problem. You're killing my grandfather... and I can't even be just angry with you because as much as it pains me to say it, he's killing himself as well by behaving exactly like all of you. May you each come to your god damn senses before you get your own selves fucking killed as well.

"And that's about all I have to say about that" -Forest Gump
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

Post by bushwackerbob »

Femina wrote: 2 months ago Just get 'A' Vaccine ffs. It's no great guess that the people point blank REFUSING to vaccinate are in similar circles as the groups who refuse to wear a mask/refuse to change their lifestyle to anything cautious they consider an imposition of their daily lives. we DO have statistical evidence for this shit. It's all around us and reported on near continuously. The death count for which has been kept up by Tallyho in this very thread for almost a year now.

My Grandfather is in the ICU almost certainly about to die from it because he A: Refused to get a vaccine and went to lunch with my equally unvaccinated cousin where they were exposed by a maskless dolt coughing his lungs out in a public place. My guess is that guy was unvaccinated as well... but we can't know that. I have it and I've been vaccinated... but just so, you don't find me exposing vulnerable human beings to it in restaurants and if I HAVE to be out in public for any reason I wear a mask and ensure I keep people very far away from me.

You're being deliberately obtuse. Vaccine's and disease control have worked in the past to great effect. We have all but eradicated illnesses before and prevented their resurgence via vaccines induced after birth. Covid isn't getting stronger because of Vaccines, that's the assumption of a retarded backbirth moron who knows nothing about anything. Well researched and informed virology is very clear on the fact that Covid is growing stronger because it is being allowed to MUTATE in the hundreds of thousands of host bodies of uninformed FOOLS who have decided to view the disease in a political light rather than take adequate precautions and listen to the people who are informed about this shit. The people who are vaccinated aren't getting sick with the SAME Covid 19 they are vaccinated for, we're getting sick from the mutant babies of the original virus that was fathered by malignant ignorance.

In this age of Flat Earthers of course, it's becoming harder and harder to just tolerate deliberate stupidity... but you know what? At least flat earthers aren't aiding in the spread of a killer and bitching about how it isn't their fault. From where I'm standing if you refuse to take the vaccine you DESERVE to be labeled a filthy low class redneck who is causing the problem, because only laziest, most slefish son of a bitch in the world would refuse to get a simple shot that might ruin their day to protect and preserve themselves and others in the long run.

So fuck you, everyone who remains unvaccinated, fuck you whoever aren't wearing a mask, you don't deserve to be catered to and defended. You're part of the problem. You're killing my grandfather... and I can't even be just angry with you because as much as it pains me to say it, he's killing himself as well by behaving exactly like all of you. May you each come to your god damn senses before you get your own selves fucking killed as well.

"And that's about all I have to say about that" -Forest Gump
I would not call a great many African Americans, who by their mistreatment by governments and institutions, justifiably in my view, ought to have a great and profound skepticism and hesitancy historically about what those institutions have to offer them, I would not call them filthy, low class rednecks just for having a dissenting view.
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

Post by DrDominator9 »

Let's take it down a notch, everyone.
Follow this link to descriptions of my stories and easy links to them:

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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

Post by Femina »

bushwackerbob wrote: 2 months ago I would not call a great many African Americans, who by their mistreatment by governments and institutions, justifiably in my view, ought to have a great and profound skepticism and hesitancy historically about what those institutions have to offer them, I would not call them filthy, low class rednecks just for having a dissenting view.
If this was a racial issue I'd agree with you. But it's not, you're missing my point entirely and the dissenting view is KILLING people

Freedom to kill has never been an acceptable viewpoint. I don't see why we should treat this any differently from accidentally shooting someone. We aren't talking about which flavor of Pizza is better. It's nothing so quaint as an argument over who should win a footrace or who DID win a footrace lacking photographic evidence.

People are dying in droves, and just kicking your feet on the sidelines going 'well I've got a dissenting viewpoint' over this 'issue' is fast becoming less of a copout, and more of a humanitarian threat. I'm not necessarily calling anyone here specifically (nor even those who live in the conditions of) what is sterotypically labeled as a filthy low class redneck. I'm saying that if you are in the business of promoting the sorts of misinformation, refuting scientific fact, and promoting the spread of a killer virus, than you DESERVE to be called whatever horrible thing imaginable, and that your hurt feelings on the subject don't matter in comparison to the vast and increasing quantity of the dead.

In this case however I'll cede that the above example reads as racist and thus unintentionally draws the discussion to the topic of racism without meaning or intending to so actuality we should just be calling it how it is.

All anti-vax, anti-maskers are Accomplices to MURDER. Plain and simple. If you aren't getting the vaccine because of a religious or political agenda you're assisting a killer. If you refuse to wear a mask for any reason other than a medical mandate that wearing such a thing is somehow fatally harmful to your existence, then you are assisting a killer. If you're making up fake facts about the effectiveness of Vaccines on the internet in order to puff up your chests and feel better about yourselves then you're assisting a killer. You are all assisting a killer, one that is going to turn on you and yours eventually. I wish I could psychically knock the sense into all of you, but I can't. So I'm simply going to be as blunt as humanly possible.

You are assisting a killer. Maybe you aren't a murderer yourself, but there sure is a lot of manslaughter going around these days.

Edit: I do of course mean the 'royal you' meaning those of you whom meet the qualification, not anything so mundane as whomever happens to be reading this message. Course half the people yammering anti-vax bullshit and patting yourselves on the back on this last page here certainly qualify.
DrDominator9 wrote: 2 months ago Let's take it down a notch, everyone.
I'd really like to, but there's just so much fucking stupid on this last page while my granhdfather lays dying in the hospital because of people like this that I'm just not in the mood. Ban me if you like. I dun give a fuck today. There's a bunch of fucking morons barking about how their refusal to get vaccines is justified by the fact that Covid is growing in spite of some people getting vaccines as if that proves something while they empower the killer by providing it bodies to mutate in.

Fuck em. They're killers. They don't deserve your protection.
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

Post by bushwackerbob »

Femina wrote: 2 months ago
bushwackerbob wrote: 2 months ago I would not call a great many African Americans, who by their mistreatment by governments and institutions, justifiably in my view, ought to have a great and profound skepticism and hesitancy historically about what those institutions have to offer them, I would not call them filthy, low class rednecks just for having a dissenting view.
If this was a racial issue I'd agree with you. But it's not, you're missing my point entirely and the dissenting view is KILLING people

Freedom to kill has never been an acceptable viewpoint. I don't see why we should treat this any differently from accidentally shooting someone. We aren't talking about which flavor of Pizza is better. It's nothing so quaint as an argument over who should win a footrace or who DID win a footrace lacking photographic evidence.

People are dying in droves, and just kicking your feet on the sidelines going 'well I've got a dissenting viewpoint' over this 'issue' is fast becoming less of a copout, and more of a humanitarian threat. I'm not necessarily calling anyone here specifically (nor even those who live in the conditions of) what is sterotypically labeled as a filthy low class redneck. I'm saying that if you are in the business of promoting the sorts of misinformation, refuting scientific fact, and promoting the spread of a killer virus, than you DESERVE to be called whatever horrible thing imaginable, and that your hurt feelings on the subject don't matter in comparison to the vast and increasing quantity of the dead.

In this case however I'll cede that the above example reads as racist and thus unintentionally draws the discussion to the topic of racism without meaning or intending to so actuality we should just be calling it how it is.

All anti-vax, anti-maskers are Accomplices to MURDER. Plain and simple. If you aren't getting the vaccine because of a religious or political agenda you're assisting a killer. If you refuse to wear a mask for any reason other than a medical mandate that wearing such a thing is somehow fatally harmful to your existence, then you are assisting a killer. If you're making up fake facts about the effectiveness of Vaccines on the internet in order to puff up your chests and feel better about yourselves then you're assisting a killer. You are all assisting a killer, one that is going to turn on you and yours eventually. I wish I could psychically knock the sense into all of you, but I can't. So I'm simply going to be as blunt as humanly possible.

You are assisting a killer. Maybe you aren't a murderer yourself, but there sure is a lot of manslaughter going around these days.

Edit: I do of course mean the 'royal you' meaning those of you whom meet the qualification, not anything so mundane as whomever happens to be reading this message. Course half the people yammering anti-vax bullshit and patting yourselves on the back on this last page here certainly qualify.
DrDominator9 wrote: 2 months ago Let's take it down a notch, everyone.
I'd really like to, but there's just so much fucking stupid on this last page while my granhdfather lays dying in the hospital because of people like this that I'm just not in the mood. Ban me if you like. I dun give a fuck today. There's a bunch of fucking morons barking about how their refusal to get vaccines is justified by the fact that Covid is growing in spite of some people getting vaccines as if that proves something while they empower the killer by providing it bodies to mutate in.

Fuck em. They're killers. They don't deserve your protection.
I think it can be a racial issue for those with certain life experiences and a knowledge of history, those life experiences and history can inform one 's opinions and choices in ways we don't always agree with or understand. It is a leap of faith for those folks they are simply not willing to take that leap. At least you have moved off a bit from calling antivaxer minorities low class rednecks, and altered course a little to attacking the COVID misinformation train, with such leaders such as noted antivaxer Robert Kennedy Jr. That is a cause I can get behind and embrace 100%, I just don't like to hear the smearing, demonization, and cyber bullying, and defamation of folks adverse or hesitant to getting the vaccine. It feels too much to me like the cancel culture intolerance certain folks rant about.
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

Post by Imagineer »

Femina wrote: 2 months ago My Grandfather is in the ICU almost certainly about to die from it
Damn, that sucks. I hope he's able to recover from the virus.
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

Post by DrDominator9 »

Prayers are with you, Femina. I understand your anger and pain.
Follow this link to descriptions of my stories and easy links to them:

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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

Post by tmon »

All I can say is the Corona virus is more like the flu which our vaccines have never completely stopped. And yes I have had my shots.
Femina wrote: 2 months ago Just get 'A' Vaccine ffs. It's no great guess that the people point blank REFUSING to vaccinate are in similar circles as the groups who refuse to wear a mask/refuse to change their lifestyle to anything cautious they consider an imposition of their daily lives. we DO have statistical evidence for this shit. It's all around us and reported on near continuously. The death count for which has been kept up by Tallyho in this very thread for almost a year now.

My Grandfather is in the ICU almost certainly about to die from it because he A: Refused to get a vaccine and went to lunch with my equally unvaccinated cousin where they were exposed by a maskless dolt coughing his lungs out in a public place. My guess is that guy was unvaccinated as well... but we can't know that. I have it and I've been vaccinated... but just so, you don't find me exposing vulnerable human beings to it in restaurants and if I HAVE to be out in public for any reason I wear a mask and ensure I keep people very far away from me.

You're being deliberately obtuse. Vaccine's and disease control have worked in the past to great effect. We have all but eradicated illnesses before and prevented their resurgence via vaccines induced after birth. Covid isn't getting stronger because of Vaccines, that's the assumption of a retarded backbirth moron who knows nothing about anything. Well researched and informed virology is very clear on the fact that Covid is growing stronger because it is being allowed to MUTATE in the hundreds of thousands of host bodies of uninformed FOOLS who have decided to view the disease in a political light rather than take adequate precautions and listen to the people who are informed about this shit. The people who are vaccinated aren't getting sick with the SAME Covid 19 they are vaccinated for, we're getting sick from the mutant babies of the original virus that was fathered by malignant ignorance.

In this age of Flat Earthers of course, it's becoming harder and harder to just tolerate deliberate stupidity... but you know what? At least flat earthers aren't aiding in the spread of a killer and bitching about how it isn't their fault. From where I'm standing if you refuse to take the vaccine you DESERVE to be labeled a filthy low class redneck who is causing the problem, because only laziest, most slefish son of a bitch in the world would refuse to get a simple shot that might ruin their day to protect and preserve themselves and others in the long run.

So fuck you, everyone who remains unvaccinated, fuck you whoever aren't wearing a mask, you don't deserve to be catered to and defended. You're part of the problem. You're killing my grandfather... and I can't even be just angry with you because as much as it pains me to say it, he's killing himself as well by behaving exactly like all of you. May you each come to your god damn senses before you get your own selves fucking killed as well.

"And that's about all I have to say about that" -Forest Gump
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

Post by tallyho »

Mr. X wrote: 2 months ago
The vaccine should also stop the spread even among unvaccinated since the vaccinated take away from the number of people who can spread it. There should be effectively less people spreading the disease... so why the high numbers?

We're distancing.
We're wearing masks.
A percentage got shots.
People lost their lively hoods and businesses.
We took a multi trillion dollar hit.
We complied complied complied.

But yet the numbers are JUST as bad as you pointed out.
BUT the whole point is you as a nation have NOT done those things. SOME of you have.

But until its the vast majority doing those things, you aren't going to get it under control. To make those blanket statements that just aren't true is misleading.
Some of you attended 19 political rallies where there was no social distancing, few masks and hardly any precautions taken. 17 of those 19 events directly lead to big outbreaks in those cities.
Some of you attended superspreader events at the Rose Garden.
Some of you blatantly ignored appeals to stay in doors.

The reason there isn't a fall in the figures is because those same idiots who were spreading it by not following the guidelines are STILL the same idiots spreading it by not following the guidelines, the only difference now is that they are giving it to each other more so than the wider population where people have been vaccinated.

'We complied' isn't true. 'Some of us complied' is.
But as its been a more or less 50-50 split rather than the 90-10 in most other countries THAT is why you still have the problem of it running riot 10 months after a vaccine was found.


My sympathies to anyone who has loved ones or friends and family suffering with the virus.
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

Post by Mr. X »

tallyho wrote: 2 months ago BUT the whole point is you as a nation have NOT done those things. SOME of you have.
That is absolute bull and you don't have the numbers to back that up. Even so there would a proportional reduction which there is not. Even if ONLY 10% complied there would be some kind of proportional reduction.

I now live in Vegas. IT WAS A FUCKING GHOST TOWN FOR A YEAR. Don't tell me we didn't comply. We destroyed our whole damned economy for this shit. an entire town reliant on tourism. My company alone saw huge layoffs. Whole companies going bankrupt and letting go 1000s of people.

Also, I grew up in the midwest. I'm one of those fly over country people. I don't make disparaging classist remarks about your country folk in Britain. What you know about us can be summed up in one stupid episode of Dukes of Hazard or a Hams beer commercial.

I'm curious what kind of job do you have that you somehow weathered whole companies going bankrupt, massive layoffs, people having to empty retirements, evictions, suicides.
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

Post by tallyho »

Are you seriously saying that 100% of your countrymen followed the rules.? Or even the vast majority?
You saw the rallies? 30,000 people not complying.
You saw the outbreaks in the superspreader events?
You saw no masks at the rallies?
You saw no social distancing?
You saw the reports of the Rose Garden outbreak?
If you as a nation were complying none of those things would have happened. So clearly it was only some of you.

I am referring to you as a nation. If you watched the news it was patently obvious.
The numbers are reported everyday in a barely 50% vaccine take up.
You want numbers look at how many of the political rallies created superspreader events in those cities where the rallies were held.

Unless you are seriously suggesting 100% of your countrymen followed the guidelines and somehow magically you still ended up in this state, when you had senators refusing masks in the Senate, governors mocking those who were wearing them, and a plethora of interviewees saying they didn't believe in masks then clearly you only ever had a partial take up.
If you believe otherwise then I pity you as you are in total denial of what you have seen this last year and a half.

(when did I mention country people?)
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

Post by bushwackerbob »

tallyho wrote: 2 months ago
Mr. X wrote: 2 months ago
The vaccine should also stop the spread even among unvaccinated since the vaccinated take away from the number of people who can spread it. There should be effectively less people spreading the disease... so why the high numbers?

We're distancing.
We're wearing masks.
A percentage got shots.
People lost their lively hoods and businesses.
We took a multi trillion dollar hit.
We complied complied complied.

But yet the numbers are JUST as bad as you pointed out.
BUT the whole point is you as a nation have NOT done those things. SOME of you have.

But until its the vast majority doing those things, you aren't going to get it under control. To make those blanket statements that just aren't true is misleading.
Some of you attended 19 political rallies where there was no social distancing, few masks and hardly any precautions taken. 17 of those 19 events directly lead to big outbreaks in those cities.
Some of you attended superspreader events at the Rose Garden.
Some of you blatantly ignored appeals to stay in doors.

The reason there isn't a fall in the figures is because those same idiots who were spreading it by not following the guidelines are STILL the same idiots spreading it by not following the guidelines, the only difference now is that they are giving it to each other more so than the wider population where people have been vaccinated.

'We complied' isn't true. 'Some of us complied' is.
But as its been a more or less 50-50 split rather than the 90-10 in most other countries THAT is why you still have the problem of it running riot 10 months after a vaccine was found.


My sympathies to anyone who has loved ones or friends and family suffering with the virus.
Funny how you leave out the BLM marches, a peaceful and laudable idea, but perhaps also not smart in COVID age, Obama wanting to have a grand birthday celebration down for 500, but when the media found out about it, he narrowed it down to 200. It still lead to a super spreader event after the party, but liberal folks tune out BLM marches and birthday parties. Your post which is typical politicizing of COVID over here also contributes to vaccine skepticism. We had a whole freakin Summer of BLM marches and nary a word from you or so called concerned libs or Brits of COVID concerns. You do like to cherry pick our COVID violations based on political affiliation. Your post would have had more credibility if you looked beyond your narrow POV and been consistent, and instead it reads like Democrat talking points and trying to score political points off of the subject of COVID.
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

Post by tallyho »

It applies equally - people weren't complying was my point, it doesn't matter what party they were from.
Hence my comment of only some of the population complying.
But I ask you this BwB. Do you believe the vast majority were following the guidelines, or at best a modest majority? From what the world saw looking on, at best I would say you had 70% compliance.
(A lot of the BLM protestors I saw were masked, not all but a lot. The rallies were a different animal with virtually no one wearing masks )

Mr X when did I mention country people?
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

Post by Mr. X »

tallyho wrote: 2 months ago Are you seriously saying that 100% of your countrymen followed the rules.? Or even the vast majority?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... data-shows

Yeah even Brits aren't buying into this.
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

Post by McGheeny »

In 1976 the National Debate Resolution for that year was that the Earth’s natural resources were finite. For those who weren’t around at the time, fossil fuel and food shortages were the current “World Ending” panic. Now, before the debating season began, teams used to spend weeks in the library (term used by us pre-computer pre-internet old guys). Debaters would deep dive for any information that related to this subject, and diligently prepare to argue both sides. You never knew until you arrived at the contest which side you would be assigned. One of the most popular positions was, “We will run out of fossil fuels by the year 2000”. Contestants had volumes of data, espoused by a mountain of experts, with extended letter salad of titles. Valid quotes from experts who predicted that the world would run out of fossil fuels to support human growth by the year 2000, and an equal number of experts who pointed out the Earth’s fossil fuels would last well beyond 2000. Well, I guess that question is now mute. But what a fantastic educational opportunity all students should experience. This ability to research legitimate factual data on both sides, identify and ignore the superfluous and outrageous unsupportable opinions, and rationally review all sides of an argument. Then, come up with an informed position.

Oh, and intelligent individuals easily see-through junk science and propaganda when it is screamed at them as fact.

I was remiss in identifying one further truth. You will NEVER convert Kool-Aid drinkers, ever. Simply recognize them, smile and/or laugh, and steer WELL clear of their destructive personalities.

So, let’s recap-

Presenting junk science and propaganda as legitimate facts – Check (Knowing the truth, I do not recognize any of your examples as valid or legitimate sources for reference)

“Fact check” – LOL! That is just too funny to comment

Summarily dismissing any contrary opinions or facts you don’t agree with – Check (Vaccine truth, International Research on Antigens, Fox News reporting - I guess, Republicans, dissenting population, Border crossing truth, recognition of Biden failure, etc.)

Personal attacks – Check. (Oh, extra points for attacking the Governor and the entire State of Florida)

Attacking personal choice because it does not fit your agenda - Check

Oh yes, you brought up blaming Jews for your troubles as an example…scary, Very Scary, and VERY telling.

Sadly, what some people will never understand is, here in the United States of America, thinking free individuals can be vaccinated and still believe, and defend, a person’s freedom to choose. Even Kool-Aid drinkers.

Thanks for the laugh.
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

Post by Femina »

Mr. X wrote: 2 months ago
tallyho wrote: 2 months ago Are you seriously saying that 100% of your countrymen followed the rules.? Or even the vast majority?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... data-shows

Yeah even Brits aren't buying into this.
That's not an answer to the question. That's just a bunch of 'look over there!" then bolt like a chicken bullshit. What Europeans are doing about their masks has no bearing whatsoever upon what YOU should be doing taking precautions for the disease.

So let me ask you point blank. Are YOU vaccinated? I will not accept 'but BLM!!!!!' or whatever that Guardian nonsense about another country was doing as an answer. Other countries absolutely should be wearing masks, and black lives matter protestors absolutely should be wearing masks and being vaccinated as well, nobody in their right fucking mind has ever said anything else about that. Other responses that are incorrect include literally anything but the clear and direct answer to the question or abstaining. The answer had better be yes though, otherwise you have no business arguing about America's flawless compliance.
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

Post by bushwackerbob »

It apparently matters to you though, since you only point out offenders on one side of the aisle. I honestly cannot put a number on it. I think certain states were more compliant than others. My state of MA I think was on the more compliant side than others. I will say this, just as a car making it's way to its destination is not news, but a three car pileup will attract more notice, if you are not from here and you are just repeatedly bombarded with images from Texas and Florida, and not with more compliant states like mine in MA, it is possible to have an inaccurate picture of our nation at large in terms of compliance issues. I know folks that lost jobs, missed funerals, were unable to be with their loved ones at the end, and the thought that someone could say those folks did not sacrifice or were not compliant enough seems rather uncharitable to me and paints folks with too broad a brush. In regards to the rallies, let's remember that masks only to a negligible (nevertheless important in my view) degree protected folks from getting COVID, so those folks were irresponsible, masks or no masks, and it would be nice if more intelligent and intellectually consistent folks spoke to that reality as well. I think it is fair to judge compliance numbers from state to state, but as far as comparing different countries, that game does not interest me. If we were at 80% compliance, some folks would bitch why we are not higher than 80. It's all relative. If folks stopped playing political games and specifically called out offenders on both sides of the aisle they would have credibility, but unfortunately COVID remains a political football. I hope everybody gets the shot.
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

Post by Femina »

buncha political radicals pissing themselves over party line injustices and nonsense racial agendas while you literally KILL people with your negligence.

You all are just making me sick.

It's not about race. It's not about democrat or republican. It's about NOT KILLING PEOPLE you useless cretins.

Get vaccinated, Wear a mask, protect yourselves, quit bitching.
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

Post by bushwackerbob »

Femina wrote: 2 months ago buncha political radicals pissing themselves over party lines while you literally KILL people with your negligence.

You all make me sick.

It's not about race. It's not about democrat or republican. It's about NOT KILLING PEOPLE you useless cretins.
The vaccine became politicized in 2020 when Trump was in office with Biden and VP Harris expressing grave concerns about the efficacy and safety of a "Trump vaccine", with crazy libs everywhere saying they would never get the Trump vaccine. That politicized genie came out of the bottle and from then on it became a political issue, so please don't come at me with this "not about Democrat or Republican nonsense. Dems like Biden and Harris poisoned the well for this vaccine for anybody who has been stricken with amnesia, hard to put that politicized genie back in the bottle. It may be about race for quite a number of African Americans who refuse to get the vaccine, you just don't like that answer. Speaking for this useless cretin, yes, I am vaccinated.
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

Post by Mr. X »

Femina wrote: 2 months agoWhat Europeans are doing about their masks has no bearing whatsoever upon what YOU should be doing taking precautions for the disease.
Then what Americans do has no bearing on Brits what so ever.
Femina wrote:It's not about race. It's not about democrat or republican. It's about NOT KILLING PEOPLE you useless cretins.
I actually agreed with Biden when Trump brought out the vaccine, pushed it through the FDA without trials. I agreed with Biden's point about it was rushed and untested. So Biden was one of the people who convinced me to be skeptical.
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

Post by Femina »

Get vaccinated. Wear a mask.

Don't listen to these idiots. They don't have your best interests at heart. They are political radicals as evidenced by their inability to speak about this without dragging DIRECT political propaganda into it on a website where such things are taboo and have been restricted for discussion.

I advise anyone reading this to understand that the schooling in virology and disease control measurable by individuals in this topic thread amounts to a fingernail shaving of actual human excrement as dug through any one of their anus' and used to plug up their ear canals so that one might scream an infantile 'nu uh!' while you and your families are at risk from the sort of behavior they are promoting.

I encourage you to look at all the plethora of articles and evidence available pretty much everywhere outside your usual circles and echo chambers by legitimate and knowledgeable sources and to leave behind this den of perverts and nescients.

Get Vaccinated. Wear a mask. Protect yourselves. Protect your loved ones.
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

Post by sugarcoater »

I’ll risk jumping into the current discourse, but if the vaccine is effective and worth it, what’s the concern about? If you’re vaccinated—and then you also want to throw on a mask—where’s the risk for you? And if someone is high risk and can’t be vaccinated, take necessary precautions (like those with peanut allergies).
As it seems Covid will be here to stay, perhaps we all need to accept it as we do pneumonia, car accidents, and other unfortunate but persistent causes of fatality. But as freedom is messy and doesn’t always align with people’s views (should we outlaw all alcohol because we know people will kill others by drinking and driving even though it’s illegal?), forcing all to take a vaccine is excessive and a bit too totalitarian for me (and I speak as someone in favor of the vaccine).
Just my two cents, and hopefully as I’m sure it will conflict with other people’s views, I can share my thoughts without being accused of anything more than a person with his own perspective on an issue.
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

Post by Femina »

sugarcoater wrote: 2 months ago I’ll risk jumping into the current discourse, but if the vaccine is effective and worth it, what’s the concern about? If you’re vaccinated—and then you also want to throw on a mask—where’s the risk for you? And if someone is high risk and can’t be vaccinated, take necessary precautions (like those with peanut allergies).
As it seems Covid will be here to stay, perhaps we all need to accept it as we do pneumonia, car accidents, and other unfortunate but persistent causes of fatality. But as freedom is messy and doesn’t always align with people’s views (should we outlaw all alcohol because we know people will kill others by drinking and driving even though it’s illegal?), forcing all to take a vaccine is excessive and a bit too totalitarian for me (and I speak as someone in favor of the vaccine).
Just my two cents, and hopefully as I’m sure it will conflict with other people’s views, I can share my thoughts without being accused of anything more than a person with his own perspective on an issue.
Your perspective is killing people. You are aiding a killer by pretending like there isn't a problem. I'm sorry if you wanna believe that this is the price of freedom or some bullshit, but that's the truth of it. Every single person who dies of this disease while the CDC and other knowledgeable channels BEG you to take action to prevent it is a person this mentality has killed. If that's fine with you, I guess there's nothing I can do to change your mind... but if that's what freedom gets us, I say fuck that freedom. We've never had the freedom to drive drunk and murder another driver. This is no different. These aren't accidents or acts of nature anymore. We have FREE measures to take to combat them, and if you aren't taking them, then you are assisting a killer.
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

Post by tallyho »

Mr. X wrote: 2 months ago
tallyho wrote: 2 months ago Are you seriously saying that 100% of your countrymen followed the rules.? Or even the vast majority?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... data-shows

Yeah even Brits aren't buying into this.
Yes because mandatory masks in public places was dropped and what do you know we've seen our case rates rocket. I don't believe it should have been dropped but that's this screwed up govt for you. They've scrapped mask wearing in schools, they started back last week and the classes are rife with out breaks. Fortunately as we have 82% of the pop fully jabbed whilst the case rates are rising the death rates are mercifully much lower

Where you said
"Even if ONLY 10% complied there would be some kind of proportional reduction." that doesn't apply when the strain has changed, where now the delta variant is dominant which is much more virulent and deadly, so any benefits from a partial vaccination are largely lost by more unvaccinated people catching it in the first place.
<edit a partially vaccinated population I meant, with a low vaccination take up >
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

Post by Mr. X »

tallyho wrote: 2 months ago "Even if ONLY 10% complied there would be some kind of proportional reduction." that doesn't apply when the strain has changed, where now the delta variant is dominant which is much more virulent and deadly, so any benefits from a partial vaccination are largely lost by more unvaccinated people catching it in the first place.
So the vaccinated caused the strain to mutate. So that means the vaccinated actually made it worse.

Ok so how many YEARS are we now mandatory going to vaccinate when we don't for the other flus that kill every year. How many variant strains? The unvaccinated are NOT mutating strains. That's due to the vaccinations.
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

Post by DrDominator9 »

Mr. X wrote: 2 months ago
tallyho wrote: 2 months ago "Even if ONLY 10% complied there would be some kind of proportional reduction." that doesn't apply when the strain has changed, where now the delta variant is dominant which is much more virulent and deadly, so any benefits from a partial vaccination are largely lost by more unvaccinated people catching it in the first place.
So the vaccinated caused the strain to mutate. So that means the vaccinated actually made it worse.

Ok so how many YEARS are we now mandatory going to vaccinate when we don't for the other flus that kill every year. How many variant strains? The unvaccinated are NOT mutating strains. That's due to the vaccinations.
How do you jump to the conclusion that the vaccinated caused the strain to mutate? That's really poor logic!
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

Post by tallyho »

When I said 'the benefits of being partially vaccinated ' I was referring to a partially vaccinated POPULATION not those who had had 1 of the two jabs. Thought it was obvious, but apparently not.

Hey ho.

OK let's just reset then and mourn your dead.
We will just have to chalk up why the procedures have lowered death rates and infection rates in Western Europe but not worked for you guys as a complete mystery as you have followed them so stringently.

Another near 2000 dead yesterday, bar 8 in US.
8 dead in Wales and 200+ in UK.
Schools have reopened without masks last week, my nephew now has it, as do 16 of his 30 classmates, 9 kids out of 30 in his brothers class also have it. I don't get why wearing the mask was scrapped but there it is. They are now offering the vaccine to 12-15 year olds but it's too late, should have jabbed them in the summer
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

Post by five_red »

Mr. X wrote: 2 months ago1) You have NO statistical evidence of this. For example Obama's big party he had last month had lots of people who did not wear masks. And everyone washes their hands. If ANYTHING the spreaders are in big cities packed together, not rural hill billies nobody cares about anyway. And antifa and BLM rallies and pride parades have tons of people who don't wear masks. I can show pics of that if you like.
The largest Covid-19 hospitalisation rates in the US right now are in states and counties with the highest rates of anti-vax, anti-mask, etc. sentiment among its population. Although places with high population densities, like bit cities, will have higher rates due to the unvaxed / unmasked coming into more frequent contact with each other, it is states like Georgia, Texas, and Miami whose hospitals have been in crisis mode, having to treat patients in corridors and makeshift areas in parking lots, with long waits to get an ICU bed.

Covid-91 continues to put a strain on healthcare systems around the world, but only in the places with strong opposition to vaccination, masking, etc. have we seen record highs -- higher than the same time last year despite us not having a vaccine last year! US states, like Florida (where leading politicians have spread conspiracies and tried to ban mask mandates, and are actively threatening and suing organisations who impose mask or vaccine or testing requirements on pupils, workers, or customers) have all seen Covid-19 rates, and accompanying death rates, in recent months higher than June-August 2020. Yes... despite having a freely available vaccine, those states are in a worse situation than a year ago!

Now, correlation does not necessarily equal causation -- it might be a coincidence that the US states that are struggling the worst in 2021 with Covid-19 just happen to be the ones with politicians who are stridently against mandates, have publicly doubted the vaccines, and have openly pushed quack cures... but it is one hell of a coincidence!

Meanwhile... in parts of the world that have low levels of anti-vax sentiment, and where people largely obeyed mask mandates (if somewhat begrudgingly), things are slowly started to move closer towards normality. London -- one of the highest and most densely populated cities on Earth -- has been able to (for now, at least) permit its residents to return to the workplace, its children to return to school, and people to ride buses and trains, with only optional masking etc. It did this because the UK is near the top of the table when it comes to vaccine roll out, and has not seen leading politicians promoting drinking bleach, or shoving lights up your anus, or using horse de-wormer.

Overfilled ICUs put non-COVID patients' health at risk: "These are people suffering unnecessarily"
Florida Adds Record 2,468 Additional Covid-19 Deaths for Week
As COVID patients overcrowd hospitals, those with other medical issues wait for care
Texas fights back against rising COVID-19 numbers in hospitals
Georgia National Guard deployed to help hospitals fight Covid surge
Covid surge eases slightly, but swamped hospitals see no relief
ICUs still full, ambulances strained across Georgia

2) Then vaccine applications are chasing something you can't beat and you're just making the virus stronger. Virus bad - stronger virus... really bad. In fact, given your statement, the people who get vaccinated are actually making things WORSE for everyone else.
You can beat it -- it just requires high levels of herd immunity. THIS IS PRECISELY WHY THERE IS SUCH A STRONG PUSH TO GET EVERYONE VACCINATED!!

Yes, the vaccinated people are making it worse for the unvaccinated, because the virus will develop stronger and stronger strains to continue to spread with few available hosts. BUT.... we can reach a tipping point when the speed at which the virus can mutate cannot match the rate at which its available hosts are diminishing -- in effect the number of available hosts is shrinking faster than its statistical ability of the virus to mutate to get better at infecting the remaining hosts. We often call this tipping point "reaching herd immunity". At that point the virus is in trouble, and starts to decline. This tipping point can only be achieved by gaining a critical mass of immunity within a host population faster than the virus can mutate. The level of the population required to achieve this critical mass (herd immunity) varies depending upon the virus. For Covid-19 it appears to be close to or over 90%. If you can attain that level, fast enough, the virus will be tamed, and if you can sustain and increase it then you may even be able to totally wipe out the virus (as we have done with certain deceases in past decades.)

Now, before you argue something stupid like "maybe if we didn't try to fight the virus then it wouldn't get strong", can I just point out that -- like all evolving organisms -- the virus is not only in competition with humans, it is also in competition with itself. You may have heard of a term "survival of the fittest"..? Different mutations of an organism compete to become dominant -- in the case of a virus the various strains are fighting over who is the most infectious, So... THE VIRUS IS GOING TO MUTATE INTO STRONGER STRAINS REGARDLESS OF WHETHER HUMANS TRY TO DEFEAT IT. Sure, our efforts might accelerate that process (maybe, possibly, perhaps...) but it will happen anyway.

Do US high schools not teach basic Evolution theory..?

The real threat is that the longer you linger below the critical mass (herd immunity) required to tame the virus, the more opportunity the virus has to mutate into stronger and stronger forms, thereby raising the threshold for the critical mass. The Delta variant first emerged in October/November 2020 -- some months before the world started mass vaccination. This means that the virus was already getting stronger while we were racing to develop a vaccine. People refusing to get vaccinated are now giving it further opportunities to get stronger still.

The nightmare scenario is a so-called "monster variant" ... a variant that can defeat current vaccines, and kills at very high rates. Each new mutation being created within the unvaccinated population, is another roll of the dice the virus gets at creating a monster variation.

This is why we may have to start mandating vaccinations -- as terrible an imposition on personal freedoms as that is. You think 2020 was bad? If we get a monster variation then 2022 could be truly terrifying. We MUST achieve herd immunity across the world as quickly as possible.


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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

Post by Femina »

Mr. X wrote: 2 months ago
tallyho wrote: 2 months ago "Even if ONLY 10% complied there would be some kind of proportional reduction." that doesn't apply when the strain has changed, where now the delta variant is dominant which is much more virulent and deadly, so any benefits from a partial vaccination are largely lost by more unvaccinated people catching it in the first place.
So the vaccinated caused the strain to mutate. So that means the vaccinated actually made it worse.

Ok so how many YEARS are we now mandatory going to vaccinate when we don't for the other flus that kill every year. How many variant strains? The unvaccinated are NOT mutating strains. That's due to the vaccinations.
You're an idiot. Do ten minutes of research into the way virus's mutate. Not just Covid propoganda, Viruses PERIOD, seriously TEN MINUTES is all you need. Your unvaccinated ass is where it happens.

Fuckin' hell.
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

Post by tallyho »

Let's not call each other idiots please.
If anyone wants to call me a complete twat that's fine, I'm owning it.
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

Post by Imagineer »

tallyho wrote: 2 months ago Let's not call each other idiots please.
If anyone wants to call me a complete twat that's fine, I'm owning it.
You're a complete twat for resuscitating this thread the way you did.
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

Post by McGheeny »

Please stop using liberal organized news outlets as a valid source of reference. It has been proven these news outlets and periodicals unapologetically falsify, slant, and coordinate information releases to maximize politized propaganda. A press that works for a political party is not a free or reliable press. And just because you do not hear us say it, we the people do know the difference.

Fact, Covid was created in WuHan labs with the knowledge and support of Anthony Fouci, financed by Pfizer, to create a gain-of-function virus weaponized to infect and attack humans. Where is your outrage about this?

Fact, Covid was released by China on the entire planet targeting the elderly and medically compromised. Why doesn’t this infuriate your covid sensibilities?

Fact, World governments chose to turn its citizens against each other (Masks, No Masks, Vaccine, No Vaccine, Booster, No Booster), then recognize China declared Bio-Chemical War on the planet. But you blame fellow humans as “Murders”.

Fact, Sweden has almost no daily covid deaths without a mask mandate or mandatory vaccination. Herd Immunity????

Fact, even the FDA has voted down 16-2 the need for a booster vaccine. They concluded the dangers of additional vaccinations are unknown. Hmmm.

Fact, Florida is protecting its Citizenry and their Civil Rights by deciding to fine any business $5000, per incident, for any employer to unconstitutionally require any type of virus passport or proof of covid vaccination.

Fact, Florida was the first state to address and protect its Citizens with the highest potential for catching covid. They protected their senior citizens and did not put covid infected patients back into nursing homes to infect other senior citizens(New York, Michigan, Indiana, Pennsylvania) killing hundreds. Nothing?

Fact, Because of it’s Free State status Florida has experience unprecedented population explosion. An influx of people leaving their oppressive and corrupt governed states have come to Florida. Why?

Fact, Current CDC information on Florida has a 99.9% vaccination rate of 65+, 72.4% vaccination rate for 18-64, and 18.9% vaccinated Under 18. Despite the massive population expansion.

Fact, Florida was the first state in the nation to focus on early treatments of covid-19.

Fact, Florida currently has 50% decrease in new hospitalizations, 24 consecutive days of declining hospitalizations, and a 2-month low in emergency room visits.

Fact, The Biden Cabal has had the federal government seize the supply and control the distribution of the life-saving monoclonal antibody treatments. The result, it slashes 50% of antibody treatments provided by the Free State of Florida to its Citizens. Government punishment?

Fact, Florida has schools that had no mask mandate in 2020, and by comparison to mandated schools, there was no significant difference in covid infections.

Fact, Medical professionals are refusing to take covid vaccine and are leaving their jobs instead. Why?

Fact, the US constitution is VERY clear that no government or administration has the right to force any procedure on its Citizenry. What the Biden collective, and any other government around the world, is doing forcing its citizens to take medicine is wrong.

Fact, If any of these facts were presented on social media, the information would be Censored and the account banned. Just as it has been done to a significant number of medical professionals, credentialed experts, and any Humans with personal factual negative medical experiences regarding covid. If their vaccine position is true and accurate shouldn't it be able to withstand criticism or educated decent?

These are true facts that stand up against any plethora of invalid resources you throw at it.
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

Post by Bert »

This thread should not exist.

Civilization requires living with people who have wildly divergent views on many topics. People have become very adept at compartmentalizing, accepting that others hold very different views and accepting them for who they are regardless. If I'm a centrist, I can maintain friendships with people who are leftist and rightist. If I'm atheist, I can maintain friendships with people who are religious.

But this trait of civilized people is ill-suited to the pandemic issue. Our nature is to accommodate opposing viewpoints, but generally the stakes involved in that accommodation are relatively low. People's "agreeableness", or tolerance for alternative ideas is extremely harmful when the stakes are very high, as they are with a deadly global pandemic. By providing a space for some to share misinformation about covid-19, masks, distancing and vaccinations, actual, drastic consequences are possible. Coming here and reading lies and bullshit presented as fact could lead to people making bad decisions and suffering serious harm.

Shut it down.
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

Post by Mr. X »

Femina wrote: 2 months ago
Mr. X wrote: 2 months ago
tallyho wrote: 2 months ago "Even if ONLY 10% complied there would be some kind of proportional reduction." that doesn't apply when the strain has changed, where now the delta variant is dominant which is much more virulent and deadly, so any benefits from a partial vaccination are largely lost by more unvaccinated people catching it in the first place.
So the vaccinated caused the strain to mutate. So that means the vaccinated actually made it worse.

Ok so how many YEARS are we now mandatory going to vaccinate when we don't for the other flus that kill every year. How many variant strains? The unvaccinated are NOT mutating strains. That's due to the vaccinations.
You're an idiot. Do ten minutes of research into the way virus's mutate. Not just Covid propoganda, Viruses PERIOD, seriously TEN MINUTES is all you need. Your unvaccinated ass is where it happens.

Fuckin' hell.
https://www.osfhealthcare.org/blog/how- ... -vaccines/
Looks like you're right. Mutations occur in the host.
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

Post by McGheeny »

Bert wrote: 2 months ago This thread should not exist.
Shut it down.
I agree shut it down. As I mention in my first post, I come here to share in a community focused on interests in all things superheroines.

I am tired of seeing members that, in any other case, would share thoughts about superheroines. Now they call each other Murders or Idiots. And the backhanded and hateful comments to any member who provides contrary position or freedom of choice. This shouldn't be a place where, despite our good nature accommodating opposing points of view, we allow "for some to share misinformation about covid-19, masks, distancing and vaccinations, actual, drastic consequences are possible".

I am disappointed seeing the worst of the community I like and people I have admired.

Shut it down.
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