Dune

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Re: Dune

Post by tallyho »

Good to see the worm getting another gig.

Looks decent but not hugely sold on the lead
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Re: Dune

Post by shevek »

The worm has turned! This looks really promising. Whole cast is pretty much shown (except Feyd Rautha who might not show up
until the second movie, if there is one). IMDB has a shot-by-shot comparison of the two movies. It's about time for this to go down!

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Re: Dune

Post by shevek »

The worm has turned! This looks really promising. Whole cast is pretty much shown (except Feyd Rautha who might not show up
until the second movie, if there is one). IMDB has a shot-by-shot comparison of the two movies. It's about time for this to go down!

P.S. I have one problem, though, with the whole Dune concept that I didn't think about until recently, and I'm very surprised nobody has ever brought up, to my knowledge. That is: if the Spice is responsible for the Space Guild's ability to warp time and space, allowing for quick FTL travel between distant worlds, and if the Spice is only available on Arrakis..then how did humanity get to
Arrakis in the first place? It must have taken thousands of years on a slower-than-light generational space ark. And Arrakis wasn't the first habitable world that humans encountered. They must have hopped from world to world over the course of more thousands of years. So where is that story? And then once they stepped foot on Arrakis, how did they know that the Spice existed and that it had such a specific property? That must have taken quite a while to discover and develop as well, and where is the story behind that? It would seem to me that the state of humanity in Dune must exist in a quite far-flung future, perhaps as much as 25,000 years after the present. In such a scenario, would the existence of Earth be long forgotten?

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Re: Dune

Post by Artee »

This trailer made me decide to finally get off my ass and read Dune. :L
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Re: Dune

Post by Dazzle1 »

shevek wrote: 1 year ago The worm has turned! This looks really promising. Whole cast is pretty much shown (except Feyd Rautha who might not show up
until the second movie, if there is one). IMDB has a shot-by-shot comparison of the two movies. It's about time for this to go down!

P.S. I have one problem, though, with the whole Dune concept that I didn't think about until recently, and I'm very surprised nobody has ever brought up, to my knowledge. That is: if the Spice is responsible for the Space Guild's ability to warp time and space, allowing for quick FTL travel between distant worlds, and if the Spice is only available on Arrakis..then how did humanity get to
Arrakis in the first place? It must have taken thousands of years on a slower-than-light generational space ark. And Arrakis wasn't the first habitable world that humans encountered. They must have hopped from world to world over the course of more thousands of years. So where is that story? And then once they stepped foot on Arrakis, how did they know that the Spice existed and that it had such a specific property? That must have taken quite a while to discover and develop as well, and where is the story behind that? It would seem to me that the state of humanity in Dune must exist in a quite far-flung future, perhaps as much as 25,000 years after the present. In such a scenario, would the existence of Earth be long forgotten?

Only speculation on my part, but before the Guild and Bene Gesserit, they had super computers which likely did those things
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Re: Dune

Post by bushwackerbob »

I finished the book myself a month ago, a good read I thought. I have already purchased the second book in the series but have yet to read it. I think the Herbert estate ought to be spreading around some of those book royalties income to this website for pushing the book here. I never would have bought the book were it not for the overwhelmingly positive word of mouth on this site.
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Re: Dune

Post by tallyho »

Shevek

The fact that Spice is only found on Dune now doesn't mean it wasn't on another planet (or something similar to Spice was that could be used as a substitute) or perhaps they used different more advanced tech that proved to be unstable etc.
Look at Concorde - 30 years ago you could get from US to Europe in 2.5hrs. Thirty years of technical advances later and we can do it commercially in... 6hrs if the Jet stream is with you.

Hopefully that eases your disquiet!
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Re: Dune

Post by Damselbinder »

Dune is set in the year 10,191. As far as we understand, yes, there were other forms of much slower, more primitive FTL travel before the discovery of the properties of the spice. And no, initially no-one had any idea that it allowed folding space. But it was known to be a narcotic, and so people had plenty of reason to huff it anyway. I'm sure it took hundreds of years for the mystics that made use of it (the ancestors of the Spacing Guild, I suppose) to realise its space-folding powers.

I find it hard to accept the existence of spice or anything spicelike anywhere other than Arrakis because nowhere else other than Arrakis has the Shai-Hulud. No Shai-Hulud, no spice.

And yes, I seem to recall that Earth - while not forgotten exactly - is so far in humanity's past that its location has been forgotten (or at least has become obscure). There's all sorts of very strange beliefs about its history: for one thing, I think the Atreides think they are LITERALLY Atreides, that is descended from Agamemnon, the mythical king.
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Re: Dune

Post by tallyho »

Damselbinder wrote: 1 year ago Dune is set in the year 10,191. As far as we understand, yes, there were other forms of much slower, more primitive FTL travel before the discovery of the properties of the spice. And no, initially no-one had any idea that it allowed folding space. But it was known to be a narcotic, and so people had plenty of reason to huff it anyway. I'm sure it took hundreds of years for the mystics that made use of it (the ancestors of the Spacing Guild, I suppose) to realise its space-folding powers.

I find it hard to accept the existence of spice or anything spicelike anywhere other than Arrakis because nowhere else other than Arrakis has the Shai-Hulud. No Shai-Hulud, no spice.

And yes, I seem to recall that Earth - while not forgotten exactly - is so far in humanity's past that its location has been forgotten (or at least has become obscure). There's all sorts of very strange beliefs about its history: for one thing, I think the Atreides think they are LITERALLY Atreides, that is descended from Agamemnon, the mythical king.
Boy you really need to get out more. You can't conceive that in an imaginary universe there's another imaginary substance that's similar in properties to a different imaginary substance? 😂 😂 😂 😂



We used wood as fuel until we had coal we used coal until we had gas we used gas until we had oil we use oil until we have nuclear power etc etc. Wood coal oil are all carbon based nuclear power is totally different yet they serve the same function though generated from totally different sources.
You could have a synthetic spice but it's just prohibitively expensive to make in large enough quantities or the materials it uses are also rare etc. There's a dozen different scenarios where it could have happened but boys and girls it's ALL MADE UP. Don't dwell on it, suffice to accept that there are possibilities how it could arise.
Aaaaaand move on. :giggle:
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Re: Dune

Post by Damselbinder »

It is not a question of literality. It is a question of literature. The whole tenor of the creeping panic that shoots through the civilised universe when the question of Paul's total control of the spice melange is raised suggest that there is no remotely viable alternative. No-one even mentions it as the remotest possibility. That spice is ONLY on Arrakis is the whole crux around which the plot turns.

Besides, the spice isn't just "some stuff". There is a spiritual dimension to it as well. It is intimately, metaphysically connected with the worms. Dune isn't just an account of a possible universe. It's a work of literature. It is against the tone and feel of Dune that there be a remotely viable spice alternative. Even if the existence of such a stuff wouldn't constitute a continuity error, it would fatally blunt the edge of the narrative.
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Re: Dune

Post by tallyho »

Again you are over looking the fact that there is no alternative to it NOW. You dont need the spirituality aspect of it for space-time travel and it doesn't mean other methods of travel were not used instead. Of course its not mentioned in the narrative because its irrelevant. Technology progresses, that's it. Its accepted. On that basis there was a tech that allowed them to reach Dune and discover the Spice and thereafter they used the Spice to travel instead. That's all it is.
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Re: Dune

Post by Damselbinder »

Obviously. I just don't think that tech was "worse spice", because then they basically would already have had navigators and stuff, and again that idea that spice transformed humanity radically would be blunted.

And I think you DO need the spirituality aspect of it for space-time travel. Navigators are mystics. "Travelling without moving" is the way that it's described, and that's echoed in the very title "Kwisatz Haderach", which we're told means "the shortening of the way". The outer voyage of the navigators echoes the inner voyage of the Kwisatz Haderach - they receive an 'inner sight' just like Paul does - but an imperfect one. A worldly one. They see only through space. The Kwisatz Haderach sees through time. But there is a connection. The spice "shortens the way".
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Re: Dune

Post by tallyho »

Again that's what it has become NOW after 10000 years that doesn't mean the spiritual element was always there. You need it now for efficient travel but maybe you didn't for whatever got them to Arakis in the first place. It's the Mongolfier brothers leading to Concorde.
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Re: Dune

Post by shevek »

I think I need to read Brian Herbert's 2002 Butlerian Jihad book, which takes place 10,000 years before the events of Dune (talk about a prequel). Probably the answers about FTL technology and the problem of artificial intelligence (which apparently was eliminated by the Jihad) are given there. The plot of humans vs deadly machines sounds a bit like Battlestar Galactica or a Dr Who episode actually.
It also talks about the destruction of Earth. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dune:_The_Butlerian_Jihad
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Re: Dune

Post by Dazzle1 »

When I saw the preview it seems that Jason Momoa is miscast, the way his character look and acts, he should be playing Gurney not Duncan and the character playing Gurney should be playing Duncan.

Also there is very little of Jessica in the preview. She is the second most important character in the book.
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Re: Dune

Post by bushwackerbob »

I just finished Dune: Messiah. I really liked the book. I remember reading at the end of the first book that in Dune Messiah, some were not happy with Paul's portrayal in the second book. I enjoyed seeing Paul look a little more mortal, a little more human. On to The Children of Dune next.
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Re: Dune

Post by Dazzle1 »

Well the Dune director is upset that the movie is going to be released on HBO Max



Maybe he did not get paid off, like a few other people have.

But as I have posted before I think the movie theater is a dinosaur.
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Re: Dune

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bushwackerbob wrote: 1 year ago I just finished Dune: Messiah. I really liked the book. I remember reading at the end of the first book that in Dune Messiah, some were not happy with Paul's portrayal in the second book. I enjoyed seeing Paul look a little more mortal, a little more human. On to The Children of Dune next.
I pity your tedium to come! 😂
I didn't mind Messiah.
CoD was OK actually, but nothing more. But we are all different, perhaps you will enjoy it more than I did. I hope you do.
The fact I remember so little about it shows its impact on me, but I hope it's up your street
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Re: Dune

Post by shevek »

Dazzle1 wrote: 1 year ago Well the Dune director is upset that the movie is going to be released on HBO Max.

Maybe he did not get paid off, like a few other people have.

But as I have posted before I think the movie theater is a dinosaur.
Yes, rumour is that, for example, Patty Jenkins and Gal Gadot were paid off to change their tune. Most likely
Denis Villeneuve was not.

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Re: Dune

Post by Dazzle1 »

tallyho wrote: 1 year ago
bushwackerbob wrote: 1 year ago I just finished Dune: Messiah. I really liked the book. I remember reading at the end of the first book that in Dune Messiah, some were not happy with Paul's portrayal in the second book. I enjoyed seeing Paul look a little more mortal, a little more human. On to The Children of Dune next.
I pity your tedium to come! 😂
I didn't mind Messiah.
CoD was OK actually, but nothing more. But we are all different, perhaps you will enjoy it more than I did. I hope you do.
The fact I remember so little about it shows its impact on me, but I hope it's up your street
Dune may be one of those books like 2010, the Mote in God's Eye or Gone with the Wind, where there should be no sequal.
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Re: Dune

Post by tallyho »

Yes that's the trouble with a really good first book it's got to be downhill after that in 9/10 cases
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Re: Dune

Post by bushwackerbob »

I just wanted to update you guys with my sojourn into the Dune series of books. I am currently struggling with Children of Dune and that will probably be my last book in the series. What can I say, you guys were right, the first book was very good, but the rest were a case of diminishing returns. I read a review in EW.com of the Dune film coming out in October. The director, Denis Villeneuve said the film is better seen in a theatre rather than a big screen, something about the scale and grandeur translating better to the big screen at the theatre rather than a TV screen. This will be my first trip to the theatre since COVID.
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Re: Dune

Post by tallyho »

Well I hope you enjoy it. I didn't mind the original film, mostly as I had the hots for Princess Irulan at the time (Virginia Madsen). Hated the way they just threw away the Duncan Idaho character though. He's some famed acclaimed fighter and his contribution was to jump on 4 Harkkonen with his shield on, stand up and get shot. In fairness the first film had a decent cast - Prochnow, Sian Phillips (great as the Bene Gesserit Mother) Max Von Sydow, Patrick Stewart, Mel Ferrer as the Emperor, the guy who played Al in Quantum Leap and... Errr... Sting. OK scratch that last one.

Anyway, have a good time and let us know what it was like
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Re: Dune

Post by Dazzle1 »

tallyho wrote: 3 months ago Well I hope you enjoy it. I didn't mind the original film, mostly as I had the hots for Princess Irulan at the time (Virginia Madsen). Hated the way they just threw away the Duncan Idaho character though. He's some famed acclaimed fighter and his contribution was to jump on 4 Harkkonen with his shield on, stand up and get shot. In fairness the first film had a decent cast - Prochnow, Sian Phillips (great as the Bene Gesserit Mother) Max Von Sydow, Patrick Stewart, Mel Ferrer as the Emperor, the guy who played Al in Quantum Leap and... Errr... Sting. OK scratch that last one.

Anyway, have a good time and let us know what it was like
Yes, they cut almost all of Duncan parts in the book from the Lynch movie.

It has a great cast, but can someone tell who Leonardo Cimino is? They created a part for him as the Baron's Doctor, no such character is in the book
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Re: Dune

Post by Dogfish »

I hate when directors get all obsessed about seeing things in a cinema. I saw Star Wars on a shitty old TV with commercial breaks, it was on most Christmases when I was a kid, and it was epic. Same with Lynch's Dune. Don't even think I caught it all first time, it was still visually incredible.

My understanding of the new movie is that it's three hours of nothing much happening, because it's only half the book, or a third, or something. I'll probably give it a miss. Maybe skim it.

Honestly, I don't think visually it looks anything like as interesting as Lynch's. Meh.
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Re: Dune

Post by bushwackerbob »

Dogfish wrote: 3 months ago I hate when directors get all obsessed about seeing things in a cinema. I saw Star Wars on a shitty old TV with commercial breaks, it was on most Christmases when I was a kid, and it was epic. Same with Lynch's Dune. Don't even think I caught it all first time, it was still visually incredible.

My understanding of the new movie is that it's three hours of nothing much happening, because it's only half the book, or a third, or something. I'll probably give it a miss. Maybe skim it.

Honestly, I don't think visually it looks anything like as interesting as Lynch's. Meh.
I never saw Star Wars until about 20 years ago on TV. I wasn't impressed by the film to be honest with you, even though it is considered one of the most culturally significant films of the last 50 years. I wonder if I had seen it at a theatre in the proper grand scale along with the communal viewing aspect with other theatregoers whether that opinion would have changed measurably. The first time I saw The Shawshank Redemption it was on a TV set, I missed it in the theatres. That film was awesome. I can just imagine how theatregoers reacted when Andy got out of that sewage pipe and had his first taste of freedom in 20 years (oops, spoiler alert, LOL!). There must have been a collective celebratory cheer of communal joy, either audible or not in the theatre at that moment. As much as I enjoyed seeing that film on TV, I think something was lost for me not sharing that communal viewing experience with others on a film screen. I think there are certain movies, some more than others, that lend itself to that big screen movie experience and Villeneuve's Dune is one of those films in my view. That's just my take.
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Re: Dune

Post by tallyho »

You saw it 23 years too late to be impressed.

As an 8 year old seeing the TANTIVE IV ship getting chased down by the Star Destroyer was just breathtaking. You weren't used to seeing anything like that disparity of size in ships. The good guys were the same size as the bad guys in the Buck Rogers series in the 40/50s and that's what you expected. To see the good ship fly over head and you think 'ooo that's quite a big ship' and then the point of the Star Destroyer appears and it just keeps coming and coming and coming. That level of childhood amazement won't get equalled and seeing it on a 50 ft screen really blew your mind.
The story is nothing. White Knight rescues Princess from Black Knights Castle. But the effects took things to another level.

Shawshank bombed in cinemas and it was video word of mouth that got it the rerelease.

I think it's fair for directors to say they did something with cinema audiences in mind. That is their craft. One French director filmed a phone conversation through a half open door and the whole cinema LEANED to the left to try and look around to see what the actor was doing. THAT was the reaction he went for when he shot the scene in that way but you will never get that from a TV audience. It might annoy you Dazzle but it's a genuine and fair point in many cases.

No one would say that of "Howard, the Duck" however.
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Re: Dune

Post by bushwackerbob »

tallyho wrote: 3 months ago You saw it 23 years too late to be impressed.

As an 8 year old seeing the TANTIVE IV ship getting chased down by the Star Destroyer was just breathtaking. You weren't used to seeing anything like that disparity of size in ships. The good guys were the same size as the bad guys in the Buck Rogers series in the 40/50s and that's what you expected. To see the good ship fly over head and you think 'ooo that's quite a big ship' and then the point of the Star Destroyer appears and it just keeps coming and coming and coming. That level of childhood amazement won't get equalled and seeing it on a 50 ft screen really blew your mind.
The story is nothing. White Knight rescues Princess from Black Knights Castle. But the effects took things to another level.

Shawshank bombed in cinemas and it was video word of mouth that got it the rerelease.

I think it's fair for directors to say they did something with cinema audiences in mind. That is their craft. One French director filmed a phone conversation through a half open door and the whole cinema LEANED to the left to try and look around to see what the actor was doing. THAT was the reaction he went for when he shot the scene in that way but you will never get that from a TV audience. It might annoy you Dazzle but it's a genuine and fair point in many cases.

No one would say that of "Howard, the Duck" however.
Wow, I was totally unaware of the remarkable box office history of The Shawshank Redemption, earning a comparatively meager 16 million dollars at the box office original release, competing against such box office behemoths Pulp Fiction and Forrest Gump, then after the Academy Award nominations and accompanying re-release upped the international grosses incredibly to 58.3 million dollars. Top rented film for 1995. I suspect you are right tallyho about the proper time, place, and context for experiencing the unique wonder of Star Wars, perhaps if I had seen it when it was first released I would have had a quite entirely different opinion of the film. Sorry for hijacking the thread!
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Re: Dune

Post by Abductorenmadrid »

My only experience of Dune is the 1984 movie - but at the time I was too young to enjoy it, appreciate it or understand it. I tried to "get it" the first time I saw it on TV, but failed, got bored and left it. More viewings of the film happened over the course of my life and it was then that I began to love it. Every time I saw it I understood more, even saw things I had missed and now I can appreciate the movie for the epic that it is. I look forward to the Dune reboot ...

Regarding Star Wars - I was lucky to have had a mum who worked in a cinema (In Haverfordwest, TallyHo!), and that cinema was my babysitter every evening for years (while the movie rating allowed it) - and I got to see Star Wars about 2.5 times every weekday for its run. As TallyHo has said, that opening shot of the Tantive IV being chased by the Star Destroyer was a jaw dropper. Compare any similar era space based action-sci-fi - that Star Wars opener was obviously a groundbreaking shot.
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Re: Dune

Post by tallyho »

Haverfordwest.... The Las Vegas of west Wales.

Yes I think Lynch's Dune has great visuals, I saw it before reading the book so wasn't that aggrieved by some of the book omissions as my mates were who had read it. I think it would have benefitted from some tighter editing but it still has great visuals.

(Ironically given its all about the desert planet, the scene that's stayed with me is simply the cut of the monstrous waves on the Atreides home world- maybe because I live by the sea I guess)
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Re: Dune

Post by NotUv2 »

Lynch's Dune wasn't a great movie, but it had lots of great elements. There's a ton of what his team did visually that became how I see the Duniverse (like the Fremen stillsuit and the sandworms in particular), or just stuck with me afterward as really cool (like the Guild characters). Some of it was kind of... inexplicable, like the "weirding modules." And it was maybe a bit over-literal about just reading the novel at us in expository dialogue. But I still enjoyed it. Amazing cast, too.

I have a nitpicky wish that at least one screen version would get right that the deep blue-within-blue of spice addiction is supposed to be "almost black." Just b/c that would be a really cool visual and nobody does it. I'm assuming there must be a technical reason? Like maybe the contacts involved would be blinding to actors and impractical for longer performances or something (I dunno, just a guess). But looks like we won't be getting that with the new version either. Not a big deal, really.

I am pretty hype for Villeneuve's version.
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Re: Dune

Post by lionbadger »

NotUv2 wrote: 3 months ago Lynch's Dune wasn't a great movie, but it had lots of great elements. There's a ton of what his team did visually that became how I see the Duniverse (like the Fremen stillsuit and the sandworms in particular), or just stuck with me afterward as really cool (like the Guild characters). Some of it was kind of... inexplicable, like the "weirding modules." And it was maybe a bit over-literal about just reading the novel at us in expository dialogue. But I still enjoyed it. Amazing cast, too.
I like the 80s one, I saw it when I was young and it was so different (now GW has ripped it all bodged it with tolkien and made memes of half the key elements)

I think people forget how new movies are, like today Sci Fi is a dime a dozen and effects and the simple know how of how to translate things from imagination (book) to visual (screen/film) is better understood. There's also more experience on what works story why star wars/Bayformers struggle with lack of story but something like the Expanse or the Marvelverse is a gripping yarn, so it could be a good adaptation.
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Re: Dune

Post by Dazzle1 »

tallyho wrote: 3 months ago Haverfordwest.... The Las Vegas of west Wales.

Yes I think Lynch's Dune has great visuals, I saw it before reading the book so wasn't that aggrieved by some of the book omissions as my mates were who had read it. I think it would have benefitted from some tighter editing but it still has great visuals.

(Ironically given its all about the desert planet, the scene that's stayed with me is simply the cut of the monstrous waves on the Atreides home world- maybe because I live by the sea I guess)
One of the problems when you have read a book and loved and then it is turned into a movie; there is a tendency to nitpick on what is not there. I plead guilty on this

The cutting job and the missing scenes in Lynch's version are worth noting. In case someone here has not read or seen Dune and is waiting for the movie, I won't mention which ones
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Re: Dune

Post by NotUv2 »

lionbadger wrote: 3 months agoI think people forget how new movies are, like today Sci Fi is a dime a dozen and effects and the simple know how of how to translate things from imagination (book) to visual (screen/film) is better understood.
Definitely, the cinematic form is always advancing and adapting. Dune in particular is a super-difficult proposition for adaptation, because the books themselves are so resolutely not action sci-fi. They derive a lot of their charm from just ignoring what movies would normally focus on in favor of very weird and alien conversations about and contests of ideology (much weirder than anything you'll see in Star Trek or Star Wars, and though all the characters are human even their definition of "human" is alien).

I'm interested to see how Villeneuve winds up solving the conundrum of how you capture that feel, and the books' ambiguity about who knows what and what their knowledge actually means, while still exploiting the setting's potential for powerful visuals and action. I'm sure no approach will please everyone but it's always cool to see a new attempt. I always liked the much-maligned Dune TV mini-series a lot, too, for this reason; despite the cheaper effects budget, they made some fun and interesting choices.
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Re: Dune

Post by Dogfish »

Slight tangent but Shawshank Redemption didn't even get universally great reviews when it came out either. Lot of people uncomfortable about how it humanised criminals.
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Re: Dune

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Yes as I say it was video word of mouth that got it a release.

On the new Dune do we feel this is a one off like Lynches or are they trying to get mileage out of it. With such a quality cast in the first one you kinda felt it was geared to a one and done as they were never gonna get that cast back together
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Re: Dune

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Villeneuve is on the record wanting ultimately to make a trilogy that also covers Dune: Messiah. It likely depends on how the first two films do.
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Re: Dune

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NotUv2 wrote: 3 months ago
lionbadger wrote: 3 months agoI think people forget how new movies are, like today Sci Fi is a dime a dozen and effects and the simple know how of how to translate things from imagination (book) to visual (screen/film) is better understood.
Definitely, the cinematic form is always advancing and adapting. Dune in particular is a super-difficult proposition for adaptation, because the books themselves are so resolutely not action sci-fi. They derive a lot of their charm from just ignoring what movies would normally focus on in favor of very weird and alien conversations about and contests of ideology (much weirder than anything you'll see in Star Trek or Star Wars, and though all the characters are human even their definition of "human" is alien).

I'm interested to see how Villeneuve winds up solving the conundrum of how you capture that feel, and the books' ambiguity about who knows what and what their knowledge actually means, while still exploiting the setting's potential for powerful visuals and action. I'm sure no approach will please everyone but it's always cool to see a new attempt. I always liked the much-maligned Dune TV mini-series a lot, too, for this reason; despite the cheaper effects budget, they made some fun and interesting choices.
The point of not being action Sci-fi is a good one

One of the reason Star Trek is better on small screen is because you are not required to do big action scenes on a TV show to get an audience
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Re: Dune

Post by NotUv2 »

Dazzle1 wrote: 3 months agoOne of the reason Star Trek is better on small screen is because you are not required to do big action scenes on a TV show to get an audience
100% true. Although they can do a lot more on TV now than they could back in the day.

(That said: I do feel like DSC's fondness for Dutch angles is going to look pretty quaint in retrospect.)
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Re: Dune

Post by NotUv2 »

Finally saw the movie.

It's pretty impressive. Took me a couple of viewings to come to grips with it. Impressions:
Spoiler
- Holy crap is it visually impressive. The style is striking and beautiful, it really is. Best on-screen versions of these characters (including the Harkonnens and the Sardaukar, thank God) that I've seen to date.

- Really good performances from all concerned. There are no weak links in the cast.

- Some very interesting touches. The film doesn't use the same "prescient visions" beats that the book does, but Villeneuve's choices make it clear that he understood their function. In particular, Paul has prescient visions of Jamis before meeting him, hinting there are timelines where they could have had an entirely different relationship. I thought that was really cool.

- I was... a little disappointed that Thufir Hawat is barely in it. I get it, though: Thufir's function in the book is mostly as a source of, or window into, exposition that the film doesn't particularly need. Still, I missed him. His confrontation scene with Lady Jessica is one of my favorite passages from the novel. (No Dinner Party scene either, but that's an omission I'm more than at peace with.)

- I admittedly have to give Lynch's Dune the edge on the soundtrack front. The soundtrack here isn't bad, and it definitely has that Epic ring to it... but it gets pretty monotonous.
On the whole, definitely enjoyed it. I think it does fulfil the promise of being a genuinely excellent film adaptation.
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Re: Dune

Post by shevek »

Damselbinder wrote: 1 year ago the very title "Kwisatz Haderach", which we're told means "the shortening of the way".
Really glad that people are still actively talking about Dune so much even before the show comes out.
I was looking back at the thread and just wanted to respond to Damselbinder:

Yes, "Kwisatz Haderach" is apparently somehow Frank Herbert slightly mis-hearing of the Hebrew phrase "K'fitzat Ha-Derech",
which indeed means "shortening of the way."
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Re: Dune

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shevek wrote: 1 month ago
Damselbinder wrote: 1 year ago the very title "Kwisatz Haderach", which we're told means "the shortening of the way".
Really glad that people are still actively talking about Dune so much even before the show comes out.
I was looking back at the thread and just wanted to respond to Damselbinder:

Yes, "Kwisatz Haderach" is apparently somehow Frank Herbert slightly mis-hearing of the Hebrew phrase "K'fitzat Ha-Derech",
which indeed means "shortening of the way."
Are you sure it's a mishearing? Mightn't he have deliberately altered it to convey drift over the passage of time and such?
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Re: Dune

Post by tallyho »

And I would suggest deliberately done to avoid association of Judaism to a sinister religious cult that rules the galaxy from behind the scenes
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Re: Dune

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So where does this movie end, relative to the Lynch movie/plot of the book? Is it after the Harkonnens do their thing and Paul gets dumped in the desert or sometime after? I'm told it's basically half of the first book, and I want to know if it's worth checking out for a big sandy fight or not.
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Re: Dune

Post by NotUv2 »

Dogfish wrote: 1 month ago So where does this movie end, relative to the Lynch movie/plot of the book? Is it after the Harkonnens do their thing and Paul gets dumped in the desert or sometime after? I'm told it's basically half of the first book, and I want to know if it's worth checking out for a big sandy fight or not.
It ends (roughly) at the end of Book One of the book. If you know the novel, it ends shortly after the fight with Jamis but before Paul's actual introduction to Sietch Tabr (which we don't see quite yet by the end of the movie, they may be collapsing or trimming some events).

The movie contains several bravura sandworm sequences, an awe-inspiring Invasion of Arrakis sequence, and is faithful *enough* to the novel as to make ridiculous people who claim it iingers too long: ohhhh, you sweet summer children...
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Re: Dune

Post by tallyho »

It depends what it's lingering for and on.
If it serves a purpose in the story fine. A visual medium is meant to be inherently faster as a storytelling mechanism - just look at Stephen King books - 200 pages before things kick off. Thank god none of the film adaptations stay that faithful to the source material, lol 😂
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Re: Dune

Post by shevek »

tallyho wrote: 1 month ago And I would suggest deliberately done to avoid association of Judaism to a sinister religious cult that rules the galaxy from behind the scenes
Could be, but the problem with that theory (and Damselbinder's 'drift') is that despite 10,000 years of religious syncretization,
the Fremen are still using letter-perfect Arabic (for example, 'Kull Wahad!' which simply means 'all is one' in today's language, and 'muad'dib' which means an instructor) and there are still characters with normal English names like Jessica and Paul.

I think it just is what it is, and it's somewhat likely that Herbert did at least somewhat of a study of Arabic when he wrote the books but didn't really study Hebrew. Going to try to watch Dune tonight if I can find it.
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Re: Dune

Post by tallyho »

Yes but the Feemen aren't a powerful religious order so if anything the fact they are the same words but the Bene Gesserit was changed from the Hebrew reinforces that it was probably deliberate.
Given the tedious detail of some of his books I don't see it as a mistake Herbert would make. But who knows.
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Re: Dune

Post by Foolish Mortal »

Saw the movie last night and the acting was good the scenery was nice. It seemed a bit long for what I thought was very little payout. Yay it ends and we are left hoping that it makes enough money to get a sequel.

The first time I saw Dune the Lynch version, I had not read the books. Enjoyed the movie. It felt like there was a start and and end.

I have since red the books, (within the past five to eight years.) I can't help but feel a little ripped off. I guess I was hoping the ending would be similar to Lynch, and here it feels like we got half way there in over two hours.

Can we do away with waiting two years for a sequel and if you need to do this make it a TV Series or Mini-series that we can get it once a year?
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Re: Dune

Post by bushwackerbob »

I see the film studio has already greenlit a sequel film with the same director according to Deadline.com. Apparently the deal involves an old fashioned theatre release without any simultaneous HBO Max streaming release component of the deal. I am going to see the film in two weeks and I can't wait to check it out in the theatre.
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