Living in the shadow of the corona virus

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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

Post by tallyho »

I got my second jab on 16th (yay! ) and they say it takes 8-10 days to take full effect so Sat 26th is P-day (pub) for me. First pint in a pub since August. Can't. Bloody. Wait.
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

Post by DrDominator9 »

tallyho wrote: 6 months ago I got my second jab on 16th (yay! ) and they say it takes 8-10 days to take full effect so Sat 26th is P-day (pub) for me. First pint in a pub since August. Can't. Bloody. Wait.
Yes, I'm sure all that home drinking to old Errol Flynn movies and thinking "I could do that!" is getting a bit wearing.

:giggle:

Oh, and congrats, by the way!
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

Post by argento »

Congratulations! ,tallyho :thumbup:
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

Post by RedMountain »

I got the J&J last Friday, around lunch time. Was fine the rest of the day, but the next morning it knocked me on my ass. Fever, migraine, body ache like I'd just run a marathon and fatigue like nothing else. Slept it off all day for about 13 hours and it all went away. Had a bit of arm soreness on Sunday, but now appear to be fine. Supposedly if he get the side effects with J&J it hits you twice as hard since it's a more potent/one dose, but who knows.
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

Post by tallyho »

I had almost exactly same reaction as first time, feel a bit fluey and nose streaming. Ache all across shoulder blades. I had the AZ yesterday so still in the middle of it.
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

Post by Mr. X »

mask mandate back in vegas.
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

Post by Danorian »

Mr. X wrote: 4 months ago mask mandate back in vegas.
Thx non-vaxxers! (note sarcasm)
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

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https://www.inquirer.com/news/middle-cl ... 90410.html
The rebel forces in America’s latest culture war — the so-called anti-vaxxers — are often described as middle- and upper-class women who breast-feed their children, shop at Whole Foods, endlessly scour the web for vaccine-related conversation, and believe that their thinking supersedes that of doctors. Typically their families earn more than $75,000 a year.
https://www.livescience.com/61305-most- ... women.html
'Vast Majority' of Online Anti-Vaxxers Are Women
I actually got the vaccine which makes me doubly annoyed cause I played by the rules. Also this spike is NOT caused by anti-vaxxers if its even a spike.
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

Post by DrDominator9 »

Okay people, this thread is for sharing stories of how the virus has affected you or those you know either positively or negatively. I want us to focus on the humanity of things without getting too political, kay? It can be a life or death situation for many here and as such emotions can run high. Please try to keep them in check. Thanks.
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

Post by tallyho »

I was about to post here for the first time in a while. I saw a CNN story about the UK saying that after the first week of England opening up cases were falling. There was a lot of speculation the decline in cases was due to the end of the Euro footie tournament so the mass spreader events had stopped, it being nice weather so more people mixing were doing it outside, people not reporting incidents as they didn't want to isolate, as almost 90% of the pop have had one vaccine and 70% have had both the symptoms are much milder and people are treating it as a mild summer cold and not realising its Covid.
But they didn't mention that the daily death toll is at its highest since March in England.
I don't understand why England relaxed mask wearing AND social distancing at the same time.
US has something like 43% with one jab (don't know how many are fully jabbed) but if you have the majority of the pop un vaccinated (and having to offer cash incentives for people to save their own lines ffs!) and not wearing masks and not socially distancing you are pretty much going to be in the same place as you were before you had a vaccine.
It was heartbreaking hearing the stories of antivaxxers begging for the vaccine as they are on their deathbed. When of course its far too late.
Get the jab, wear a mask in confined spaces. It's not hard and it works.
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

Post by tallyho »

200 million cases worldwide
, at least 4.25 million dead.
Took over a year to hit 100 million cases, 6 months to reach 200.
Still grim times ahead.
Stay safe every one
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

Post by Bert »

A bit of quick math reveals that in early August, for every Canadian who contracts covid, forty Floridians become infected.
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

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Surely they can stop that Canadian going to Florida?
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

Post by tallyho »

Sorry not a topic for levity
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

Post by bushwackerbob »

tallyho wrote: 4 months ago I was about to post here for the first time in a while. I saw a CNN story about the UK saying that after the first week of England opening up cases were falling. There was a lot of speculation the decline in cases was due to the end of the Euro footie tournament so the mass spreader events had stopped, it being nice weather so more people mixing were doing it outside, people not reporting incidents as they didn't want to isolate, as almost 90% of the pop have had one vaccine and 70% have had both the symptoms are much milder and people are treating it as a mild summer cold and not realising its Covid.
But they didn't mention that the daily death toll is at its highest since March in England.
I don't understand why England relaxed mask wearing AND social distancing at the same time.
US has something like 43% with one jab (don't know how many are fully jabbed) but if you have the majority of the pop un vaccinated (and having to offer cash incentives for people to save their own lines ffs!) and not wearing masks and not socially distancing you are pretty much going to be in the same place as you were before you had a vaccine.
It was heartbreaking hearing the stories of antivaxxers begging for the vaccine as they are on their deathbed. When of course its far too late.
Get the jab, wear a mask in confined spaces. It's not hard and it works.
I was happy and eager to get the shot and I fervently hope anti-vaxers change their minds. One of the carrot sticks put out there by our political leaders was the promise that getting the vaccine would lead to down the road to the end of the mask mandate and I think that promise alone sold a lot of folks on getting the shot (not me, I would have gotten the shot anyway) and this talk of reinstalling the mask mandate for vaccinated folks in certain places I think undermines the noble and common sense goal of trying to get as many folks vaccinated as possible, and yes, I know about the Delta variants out there. Re-imposing that mask mandate will not achieve the laudable goal of getting as many folks vaccinated as possible.
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

Post by batgirl1969 »

And just think...this ALL started from 1 infected patient Zero!
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

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batgirl1969 wrote: 4 months ago And just think...this ALL started from 1 infected patient Zero!
Who drank milk past the expiration date.
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

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batgirl1969 wrote: 4 months ago And just think...this ALL started from 1 infected patient Zero!
Vanity Fair had a great and exhaustive piece on COVID-19's origins.
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

Post by Imagineer »

I recently learned an older acquaintance of mine, who needed a hospital stay but not a ventilator, hasn't fully recovered after all -- a new heart murmur, easily out of breath, often fatigued. This is the sort of outcome that is most often on my mind.
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

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bushwackerbob wrote: 1 year ago I disagree that we ought to start opening up right now and I think at this moment we ought to continue the stay at home orders and social distancing. I do think however, whether it be a month, two months, whatever, psychologically we need to see a light at the end of the tunnel of this thing. Yes, nobody knows what the outlook on this thing is going to look like in a month or two and it might not be a good idea to set hard target dates but I think it would help if we let people know what a slow phased opening up looks like, what type of businesses could open up, what kind of social gatherings will be allowed, and what numbers, and in general what this reopening will look like. I really like how Governor Cuomo of NY has handled this thing. I don't believe he is actually giving a time table, but he is already talking about opening up upstate NY, as NYC has obviously been slammed really hard during this pandemic while other parts of the state have been less affected and seem to have a better chance of opening up sooner. I like that Cuomo seems to be giving a roadmap to what factors will be involved in a reopening. I detect a quiet confidence, an inner strength in Governor Cuomo, a determination to protect his fellow New Yorkers but at the same time a determination to beat this thing and come out on the other side. I sincerely wish we had Dem Governor Cuomo handling this thing in Massachusetts rather than the idiot Rep Governor Baker who projects none of that determination and strength, and only projects fear and uncertainty which is why I don't have confidence that my state will open up at the appropriate time whenever that is. The simple fact of the matter is that we are all scared of this thing, scared we will contract it, scared our loved ones will get it, scared for our elderly and some of our most vulnerable and at risk in our society. We are also scared that this whole economic system will come crashing down, we lose our jobs, and lose the ability to support ourselves financially, have money for food, housing, and expenses. That is also a real fear if we don't get back to work sometime in the near future, whatever that means. I believe our politicians are scared, and uncertain how to handle this thing as well, they don't want to open up too soon and become responsible for a big second outbreak of this virus, but at the same time I imagine they also see how fragile our economy really is and don't want to see it come crashing down and create a second catastrophic event on top of this crisis. It's easier for me, I am designated an essential employee, this pandemic has not affected me so far, but there are a lot of people affected, both in contracting this virus, and also people suffering economically and wondering when this nightmare is going to truly end. Here's hoping our elected officials, regardless of party affiliation are able to make the right and responsible decisions regarding when to reopen for the health and economic welfare of our country.
I am having some second thoughts about parts of this post right now.
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

Post by DrDominator9 »

See above ^^^^^

:) Understandably so, bushwackerbob. On the plus side, he will be available for you in about two weeks if you want him.

We all felt very proud of Cuomo a year ago. How things change, eh? Three democratic governors in a row have left office "in disgrace." ... and I still don't believe they'll vote in a Republican the next time around.
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

Post by Dazzle1 »

DrDominator9 wrote: 3 months ago See above ^^^^^

:) Understandably so, bushwackerbob. On the plus side, he will be available for you in about two weeks if you want him.

We all felt very proud of Cuomo a year ago. How things change, eh? Three democratic governors in a row have left office "in disgrace." ... and I still don't believe they'll vote in a Republican the next time around.
I live next door to NY.

Cuomo did a horrible job on Covid.

He sent people infected people into nursing homes
Misused the medical ship Trump sent
Destroyed a number of business with punitive restrictions
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

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Dazzle1 wrote: 3 months ago He sent people infected people into nursing homes
Misused the medical ship Trump sent
Destroyed a number of business with punitive restrictions
And don't forget bought up the real estate at a fire sale when those people left cause he put them out of business.
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

Post by tallyho »

Almost 2000 dead stateside yesterday. That's a 9-11 every 2 days.

Can't believe your vaccine take up is lowest of all G7

UK had 201 deaths almost all unvaccinated, (the few that weren't had existing health problems).
Same story with hospitalisations

Wales has 90% vaccine take up, had 2 deaths out of 3million people.

Get jabbed and stay safe
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

Post by DrDominator9 »

While I'm not completely comfortable with issuing vaccine mandates, it really is time now to do so. They had mandated vaccines when I was a kid for measles, mumps, polio... all sorts of proven health regimes that made the population safer. Couldn't attend school without those vaccines. Loving freedom is all well and good but your decision is putting my life at risk and your freedom ends where it invades mine. I guess this trends into politics and is a no-no. So I apologize in advance for breaking that rule.
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

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DrDominator9 wrote: 2 months ago While I'm not completely comfortable with issuing vaccine mandates, it really is time now to do so. They had mandated vaccines when I was a kid for measles, mumps, polio... all sorts of proven health regimes that made the population safer. Couldn't attend school without those vaccines. Loving freedom is all well and good but your decision is putting my life at risk and your freedom ends where it invades mine. I guess this trends into politics and is a no-no. So I apologize in advance for breaking that rule.
I understand where you are coming from. I dearly wish everybody would get the vaccine, I wish this issue was not so politicized, people would look at the facts on the efficacy, side effects, and health risks associated with getting the vaccine. Last year when Trump was president you had Biden and VP Harris, along with many liberals expressing grave doubts, questioning the efficacy and the hyper speed up process of getting the "Trump vaccine", then when Biden came into office, some folks, hypocrites and phonies on the left and the right all of a sudden changed their tune on the safety and efficacy of the vaccine. When you start out politicizing the vaccine in 2020, it's hard to put that genie back in the bottle and expect folks to stop playing politics with that serious shit decision. Folks poisoned the well for the COVID vaccine in 2020 and it is hard to get some folks to come to their senses after setting that original narrative. If you want to mandate getting the vaccine for concerts, planes, athletic contests, and other venues, that is one thing, actually literally forcing folks to get the vaccine is a step I am not willing to take, it is a step too far.
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

Post by tallyho »

We have a situation in the UK where from today (I believe its today anyway) its mandatory for health care workers to be vaccinated or else they can't work. I personally think this is a valid step.
On the news one care homes worker was refusing on religious grounds and actually said she believed God had given her immunity and she would never put those in her care at risk. The interviewer pointed out that that was exactly what she was doing and she said that as the residents had all been vaccinated then they weren't in danger. The journalist didn't counter that the vaccine iSNT 100% effective (depending on the jab its 93-95% but if you have been jabbed the effects should be less if you do get it) but in the weak and elderly with a plethora of underlying conditions no one can say whether those milder cases of the virus will still be enough to finish them off in those 5-7% of cases where they still get it.

I think health care workers owe it to their patients not to deliberately expose them to danger and so it should be mandatory.
4.56 million dead globally. Absolute tragedy. Why anyone would want to increase your chances of joining that statistic is beyond me.
Half the world are crying out for the jab and incredibly those that can have it are refusing it.
Inconceivable.

Tragic story from Texas of a 4 year old little girl whose antivaxxer mum gave Covid to her. Ill at 2am, dead by 7am. Mother says "I wish I'd had the jab now."
No shit. The child was too young to be vaccinated but if her family had, she would still be alive. Pretty little thing too. Awful, awful tragedy.

Get jabbed.
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

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bushwackerbob wrote: 2 months agoLast year when Trump was president you had Biden and VP Harris, along with many liberals expressing grave doubts, questioning the efficacy and the hyper speed up process of getting the "Trump vaccine", then when Biden came into office, some folks, hypocrites and phonies on the left and the right all of a sudden changed their tune on the safety and efficacy of the vaccine.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/01/health/e ... index.html
A grand example of this. Look at the date. Now magically CNN is pushing vaccines.
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

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DrDominator9 wrote: 2 months ago While I'm not completely comfortable with issuing vaccine mandates, it really is time now to do so. They had mandated vaccines when I was a kid for measles, mumps, polio... all sorts of proven health regimes that made the population safer. Couldn't attend school without those vaccines. Loving freedom is all well and good but your decision is putting my life at risk and your freedom ends where it invades mine. I guess this trends into politics and is a no-no. So I apologize in advance for breaking that rule.
Fundamentally its not the un-vaccinated that are causing the issue. Plenty of vaccinated people are getting sick. Maybe not at the same rate but there is no correlation that has been published of the un-vaccinated being the issue.

This is a do something fallacy. Not "everything helps" especially when that cost of the "everything" is more than what it solves. We didn't need to put a 2-4 trillion dollar hole in our economy and have inflation and a 29 tril dollar debt for this.

Plenty of people die of the regular flu but we don't destroy the economy every year to fight it.

People also need to stop turning this into some class conflict. Anti-vaxers are all over, its not just bible thumping fundies.
1. Jimmy Carrey is a huge lefty and is a huge anti-vaxer.
2. Plenty of whole foods and organic food shoppers are anti-vax.
3. A study showed a lot of people with PhDs are anti-vax.
4. Blacks and hispanics tend to be anti vax. SNL even did a skit about that.
5. Plenty of places did not mandate vaccines and don't have spikes.

Virus is going to virus. Force will solve nothing.

A woman's body... a woman's choice.... except when we force a woman to take a vaccine?
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

Post by Damselbinder »

Mr. X wrote: 2 months ago
DrDominator9 wrote: 2 months ago While I'm not completely comfortable with issuing vaccine mandates, it really is time now to do so. They had mandated vaccines when I was a kid for measles, mumps, polio... all sorts of proven health regimes that made the population safer. Couldn't attend school without those vaccines. Loving freedom is all well and good but your decision is putting my life at risk and your freedom ends where it invades mine. I guess this trends into politics and is a no-no. So I apologize in advance for breaking that rule.
Fundamentally its not the un-vaccinated that are causing the issue. Plenty of vaccinated people are getting sick. Maybe not at the same rate but there is no correlation that has been published of the un-vaccinated being the issue.

This is a do something fallacy. Not "everything helps" especially when that cost of the "everything" is more than what it solves. We didn't need to put a 2-4 trillion dollar hole in our economy and have inflation and a 29 tril dollar debt for this.

Plenty of people die of the regular flu but we don't destroy the economy every year to fight it.

People also need to stop turning this into some class conflict. Anti-vaxers are all over, its not just bible thumping fundies.
1. Jimmy Carrey is a huge lefty and is a huge anti-vaxer.
2. Plenty of whole foods and organic food shoppers are anti-vax.
3. A study showed a lot of people with PhDs are anti-vax.
4. Blacks and hispanics tend to be anti vax. SNL even did a skit about that.
5. Plenty of places did not mandate vaccines and don't have spikes.

Virus is going to virus. Force will solve nothing.

A woman's body... a woman's choice.... except when we force a woman to take a vaccine?
We'd force people to have abortions if their unborn children started shivving people. And you have the nerve to talk about fallacies!
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

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Damselbinder wrote: 2 months ago
We'd force people to have abortions if their unborn children started shivving people. And you have the nerve to talk about fallacies!
Huh?

Also that means NO ONE has that right to talk about Fallacies.

BTW I 100% oppose the Texas mandate and ANY gov restriction on abortion though I would agree there are proportionality arguments and one can ostracized the heck out of someone for their actions. Legal does not mean free from judgement.

I but most certainly do NOT want a restriction on abortion because that means the government can impose restrictions on me. That's why I also oppose mandated vaccines. Once the foot is in the door then its all down hill. Also denial of tax paid services due to no compliance should not occur. But it is a bit hypocritical of some to demand freedom only in one sliver area and not on principle in all cases. The very first people to be against mandated vaccines should be the people against banning abortion under law.

The repubs and neocons are the shyt for doing their 1.5 month restriction.

BTW you hand the dems the power to mandate vaccines you hand the scumbag neocons the power to ban abortion. Weasel up any specially pleaded argument you like how that's slightly different but you're simply handing a gun to the very people you can't stand.
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

Post by tallyho »

The unvaccinated ARE clearly the issue as they are the bulk of cases and fatalities
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

Post by Damselbinder »

Mr. X wrote: 2 months ago
Damselbinder wrote: 2 months ago
We'd force people to have abortions if their unborn children started shivving people. And you have the nerve to talk about fallacies!
Huh?

Also that means NO ONE has that right to talk about Fallacies.

BTW I 100% oppose the Texas mandate and ANY gov restriction on abortion though I would agree there are proportionality arguments and one can ostracized the heck out of someone for their actions. Legal does not mean free from judgement.

I but most certainly do NOT want a restriction on abortion because that means the government can impose restrictions on me. That's why I also oppose mandated vaccines. Once the foot is in the door then its all down hill. Also denial of tax paid services due to no compliance should not occur. But it is a bit hypocritical of some to demand freedom only in one sliver area and not on principle in all cases. The very first people to be against mandated vaccines should be the people against banning abortion under law.

The repubs and neocons are the shyt for doing their 1.5 month restriction.

BTW you hand the dems the power to mandate vaccines you hand the scumbag neocons the power to ban abortion. Weasel up any specially pleaded argument you like how that's slightly different but you're simply handing a gun to the very people you can't stand.
Dude. Stop saying "special pleading". You have never used it right.

"Officer I was speeding because I was being chased by a shotgun wielding madman who was straight up trying to murder me and I was trying to escape."
"Sorry that's special pleading. To jail with you."

"X is ok in Y situation but not in Z situation" is not special pleading. Mandating no abortions and mandating vaccines for the coronavirus are different enough situations that you need separate arguments against both even if they're both wrong.
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

Post by tallyho »

This is one of a plethora of articles on the matter

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/ ... -protected
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

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Damselbinder wrote: 2 months ago
Dude. Stop saying "special pleading". You have never used it right.

"Officer I was speeding because I was being chased by a shotgun wielding madman who was straight up trying to murder me and I was trying to escape."
"Sorry that's special pleading. To jail with you."

"X is ok in Y situation but not in Z situation" is not special pleading. Mandating no abortions and mandating vaccines for the coronavirus are different enough situations that you need separate arguments against both even if they're both wrong.
Actually you don't understand special pleading. That is not a special plead. That is an excuse for behavior.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_pleading

"Special pleading is an informal fallacy wherein one cites something as an exception to a general or universal principle, without justifying the special exception.[1][2][3][4][5] It is the application of a double standard.[6][7] "

In your case you're still speeding. Now what the cop does about that is different.

Mandates for both abortion and vaccines are in the same category no different than mandating people take other drugs, certain vitamins, exercise, think a certain way.

And you ignore the slippery slope of government. If its established one place it can be used in another. Its better simply not to mandate.

And you have little evidence to show mandates work in any large, effective manner. maybe some edge cases but so what. And are you willing to kill someone who does not comply because that's what it boils down to. If someone says NO through the whole process including resisting arrest what happens? Men with guns end it.

Are you willing to have cops kill someone for not complying? And I would ask the same of the anti-abortion nuts. Are they willing to kill a woman for not complying? Life is not a giant excel spread sheet of specially pleaded rules.
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

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tallyho wrote: 2 months ago This is one of a plethora of articles on the matter

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/ ... -protected
Great. None of that warrants a mandate through force or coercion. There is no magic button.
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

Post by tallyho »

Mr. X wrote: 2 months ago
tallyho wrote: 2 months ago This is one of a plethora of articles on the matter

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/ ... -protected
Great. None of that warrants a mandate through force or coercion. There is no magic button.
No its the 2000 deaths a day that warrants the mandate, unless of course you find 700,000 dead a year acceptable. What that and the other host of articles shows is that the non vaccinated are the ones getting infected and dying and the longer you have a big unvaccinated population spreading the disease you increase your chances of creating a resistant strain. And then if you have a strain that is resistant to the jabs you are back to square one.
It's not rocket science.

We haven't needed a general mandate in Europe because take up is higher. We have a natural adversity to dying. But as I say I think care workers should have it or move to another job. There's no point caring for an 86 year old 7 days a week if you are killing them on the 7th day by giving them a lethal illness.

Until we are all protected, no one is protected.
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

Post by Mr. X »

tallyho wrote: 2 months ago
Until we are all protected, no one is protected.
Are you willing to kill people who do not comply? That's what any law boils down to.
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

Post by tallyho »

I'm pretty sure speeding laws just incur a fine.
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

Post by Mr. X »

tallyho wrote: 2 months ago I'm pretty sure speeding laws just incur a fine.
And if you say no to the fine what happens?
And if you say no to the arrest what happens?

Did George Floyd die simply cause he resisted arrest or did he die when a law was enforced?

What happens when you keep saying NO?

And given your hysterical zeal about this and "millions dying" I seriously doubt the penalty for non-compliance will be a jay walking ticket.
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

Post by DrDominator9 »

You say that mandates haven't been proved effective but you're ignoring the 1950s - 70s where mandated vaccines for Polio and Measles virtually wiped those diseases from the face of the earth.
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

Post by tallyho »

Dear lord. 4. 5 million dead, God knows how many with long term health issues and I'm hysterical, because I'd like it to stop?
If, as apparently you advocate, vaccination isn't the answer, then what is your solution to this crisis? We ignore it and carry on until there is a much more lethal virulent strain that's resistant to the vaccines and then all our troubles are over?
The punishment for saying no will effectively be ostracization, until you catch it and either die or give it to the ones you love and watch them die.
I've lost 2 elderly family members to the virus, which does tend to make you take it as a serious global threat. On account of it being serious, global, and a threat.
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

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DrDominator9 wrote: 2 months ago You say that mandates haven't been proved effective but you're ignoring the 1950s - 70s where mandated vaccines for Polio and Measles virtually wiped those diseases from the face of the earth.
This is one of those dangerous arguments where MAYBE and I stress MAYBE it worked out OK but then becomes a slippery slope. The Cutter vaccine DID get people sick.

Heck you could mandate exercise as well... might stop some obesity... but the ends do not justify the means.

You open that door and there's no stopping the mandates.

And if the gov can mandate a vaccine they can mandate a ban on abortion. You do know Norway also had mandatory forced sterilization of parents and the euthanizing of their physically deformed offspring back in that same 1905 time period that the US gov mandated smallpox vaccines. You really want to go this route?

Also the 1905 mandate was a $5 fine. Not exactly going to deter someone who really does not want a vaccine and since there's all this screaming about importance I doubt the mandate today will simply be some small fine.

So what's the penalty for non-compliance? Jail? You gonna drag people to jail? What if they say NO.
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

Post by bushwackerbob »

I have a hard time trying to justify a vaccine mandate where for most folks there is an over 99% chance they will survive the virus even if they are unlucky enough to get infected. I might be more inclined to effect such drastic measures as forcing folks to get the vaccine if there was a higher mortality rate, the price for violating one's civil rights being to essentially save civilization, but that is not the case here. Don't ask me what the magic number threshold I have for the mortality rate that would necessitate me supporting enforced vaccinations, suffice to say it is higher than 1% for the average American with no concurrent health issues.
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

Post by tallyho »

BWB, It's about a 3% fatality rate (not 1%) but about 15- 20% of people end up with lung scarring, emphysema symptoms and other long term health issues. So if you do get it it's a 1 in 5 chance of being dead or your way of life changing forever. (with the corresponding impact on those who will have to care for you or assist you going forward) I don't think personally your individual freedom of choice should have that kind of impact on those around you and your fellow countrymen. Not when there is a valid alternative with no proven issues (just a suspected link to clots in an extremely small number of cases)
If you had a reasonably high vax take up rate so that it's the minority of unvaccinated population which would diminish over time due to deaths and people changing their minds then as in Europe you have no need of a mandate. But in the US its only just over 50% take up. That's way too low and will keep the virus as a problem for years with the danger of variants getting stronger, more contagious and more deadly.
If the virus was unchanging and at the 1% impact you state BWB then those are fair points but unfortunately it isn't on either count.

You aren't gonna get out of it with this mentality-
IMG-20210915-WA0000.jpg
IMG-20210915-WA0000.jpg (86.61 KiB) Viewed 1021 times
Apparently it taught him to spell as well
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

Post by bushwackerbob »

tallyho wrote: 2 months ago BWB, It's about a 3% fatality rate (not 1%) but about 15- 20% of people end up with lung scarring, emphysema symptoms and other long term health issues. So if you do get it it's a 1 in 5 chance of being dead or your way of life changing forever. (with the corresponding impact on those who will have to care for you or assist you going forward) I don't think personally your individual freedom of choice should have that kind of impact on those around you and your fellow countrymen. Not when there is a valid alternative with no proven issues (just a suspected link to clots in an extremely small number of cases)
If you had a reasonably high vax take up rate so that it's the minority of unvaccinated population which would diminish over time due to deaths and people changing their minds then as in Europe you have no need of a mandate. But in the US its only just over 50% take up. That's way too low and will keep the virus as a problem for years with the danger of variants getting stronger, more contagious and more deadly.
If the virus was unchanging and at the 1% impact you state BWB then those are fair points but unfortunately it isn't on either count.

You aren't gonna get out of it with this mentality-
IMG-20210915-WA0000.jpg

Apparently it taught him to spell as well
I just looked it up, I was slightly off. The U.S mortality rate is 1.6%, (we were talking about COVID mandates in the U.S) and that number may be high as some deaths with folks dead from other causes, but tested positive for COVID were termed COVID related deaths.
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

Post by Mr. X »

tallyho wrote: 2 months ago You aren't gonna get out of it with this mentality-
IMG-20210915-WA0000.jpg

Apparently it taught him to spell as well
There's the classism as well. You do know a lot of blacks are also antivax as well as the whole health crowd, the people who shop Wholefoods, a lot of PhD level people. Its not red necks. Jim Carrey is a HUGE anti-vax person.

Also Biden was anti Vax in 2020 and definitely anti mandate and he was right. He pointed out a drug that was rushed and bullied through the FDA, a system in place to prevent bad drugs from being released. So WHY is it unreasonable for others to distrust a drug rushed to market that was not fully FDA tested?



So it IS apparently OK to reject a vaccine based on politics.
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

Post by McGheeny »

This covid...thing, is way out of control. When people start attacking each other because of fear, false, irresponsible, and suppressive reporting, then the freight train is Definitely on a runaway course to Hell (And not Hell Norway). If you look at the chart, Covid isn’t even close to the top cause of death. I never did see a response to the question above, people die from the flu why haven’t we shutdown the world for that? Medical research has shown the death from flu is higher. Also, the flu number is not completely accurate, it should be higher. It was never required to specifically report deaths due to the flu. Another fact, investigations have proven that numerous non-covid related deaths were inaccurately attributed to covid. Like the flu people do get over covid. What about the over 100 million people in the US alone that have had, and survived, covid without negative effects? Their body now has natural immunity to covid. Finally, how do you explain away Sweden, who has no mask mandate, no mandatory vaccine mandate, yet today has almost no daily covid deaths?
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Yes, people are dying from covid and that is a great tragedy. It should NEVER have happened. But why are you attacking people who are doing the research and who want to make choices for their own body. Their God given civil rights do not end where irrational fear and uncontrolled paranoia begin. Government mandated vaccination smacks of illegal overreach. The fact that the US government's irresponsible actions are also VERY unconstitutional in the United States is enough to give me pause. Why do they feel they have to make people take a vaccine that isn’t even totally effective? A vaccine that now needs unknown number of booster shots. A vaccine that is 27 time less effective than natural immunity? Why is the US government actively working against alternate successful preventative treatments? Why aren't you questioning government’s motives? Don’t accept their fearmongering marketing campaign. Don’t do a repressive regime’s job for them.

And come to think of it, why aren’t you getting crazed about the fact that covid was created and released in China (Proven Fact)? Or the fact that Anthony Fauci was part of the group that financed and oversaw the creation of the weaponized human susceptible strain of covid? Shouldn’t you be angry your government didn’t act against China who basically declared Bio-Chemical warfare on the entire world? Why is the government working so hard to turn half of its population against the other? Orwell, Huxley, Vonnegut, and others warned of this type of tyrannical behavior by government. It's a pity those writers or their thoughts are no longer mandatory reading in schools. I wonder why?
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

Post by Mr. X »

Maybe we should just leave this discussion as is. Peace.
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