I would like to know what "Zero Tolerance" means

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I would like to know what "Zero Tolerance" means

Post by NotUv2 »

Meta-Political Discussion

A few days ago, the board announced a "zero-tolerance" policy for political discussion. I have tried to act in accordance with it.

However, I would like to know what that applies to. A member put up an open, super-obvious bait post about the Israel-Palestine conflict that a moderator outright contributed to seven hours before it was finally shut down. "Reviews" have been posted here containing equally obvious political bait content that drew no response from the staff in response to reports.

I hope "zero tolerance" is not code for "the rest of us are expected to just sit around and look on at right wing rhetoric and shut up or we'll be penalized." I hope that's not what it means. I hope it doesn't mean that the mods will only respond when people respond to the fash effluvium that proliferates ceaselessly here, instead of the mods having the gumption to respond first.

But... I have to ask at this point. Is that effectively what it means? Are we all just expected to just sit around and watch the right wing of the site do its thing until someone has the temerity to reply and that's when the ban hammer comes down? Is "zero tolerance" really just "zero tolerance of Answering Back" and not "zero tolerance of politics"? Is that what "zero tolerance" really means?

(I hope it isn't. But if it isn't, then I humbly submit to you that "zero tolerance" needs to actually mean zero tolerance if it's going to be credible, that this must include the constant baiting from the right-wing members of this forum, and that it should be implemented from the first moment a moderator sees something, without the need for an outcry and multiple reports.)

[Edited to dial back some language which doesn't really apply to the particular case that prompted this.]
Last edited by NotUv2 6 months ago, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: I would like to know what "Zero Tolerance" means

Post by NotUv2 »

Honestly, IDK that I'm really expecting an answer to this post. That I'm even having to ask this question has made certain decisions for me, at any rate. It's mainly just an exercise in facing up to what's going to be needed to actually grow this community.
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Re: I would like to know what "Zero Tolerance" means

Post by Dazzle1 »

So would I

I put a post about an actress who is known for playing a Superheroine and was attacked because she is Israeli or more specificly that she is Jewish. We allow posts about the Covid situation.
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Re: I would like to know what "Zero Tolerance" means

Post by tallyho »

Ooo Moderator in italics. I feel all important.
I would like to point out that I hadn't followed the link when I posted my jokey comment, as it was ten past midnight here, and I was required to wipe the excrement off my mother's bottom.
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Re: I would like to know what "Zero Tolerance" means

Post by NotUv2 »

Not trying to be hypercritical or anything @tallyho but I mean, to judge from the "jokey comment," you did very clearly have enough time to register that it was a Fox News link and what was going on.

The question "is there a zero tolerance policy or is there not one?" isn't really that complicated? If there is one, it should be a simple binary and there should be a very simple response to that sort of thing. That's what zero tolerance policies are supposed to do, right? Having one was a good idea, but I mean... only if it actually gets consistently implemented.

Anyway, implementation did eventually happen. So, cool. Maybe I am being hypercritical. I'm sorry if so.
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Re: I would like to know what "Zero Tolerance" means

Post by MightyHypnotic »

You're referring to the Gal Gadot thread, I did not view that as political. It was a thread about an actress who portrayed an iconic character of our genre and the was newsworthy and worth mentioning. If it devolves into something other than that then yes, it gets locked.

@Dazzle1 You were not being attacked. Lots of people make fun of Fox News.
(Personally, I read it along with CNN and a few others and form my own opinion.)
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Re: I would like to know what "Zero Tolerance" means

Post by Dazzle1 »

MightyHypnotic wrote: 6 months ago You're referring to the Gal Gadot thread, I did not view that as political. It was a thread about an actress who portrayed an iconic character of our genre and the was newsworthy and worth mentioning. If it devolves into something other than that then yes, it gets locked.

@Dazzle1 You were not being attacked. Lots of people make fun of Fox News.
(Personally, I read it along with CNN and a few others and form my own opinion.)
Fascist right wing rhetoric sounds like a personal attack
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Re: I would like to know what "Zero Tolerance" means

Post by Mr. X »

I wasn't attacking you Dazzle1. I actually side with Israel since its the more progressive group. I see NO green progressive check marks on the Palestinian score card. I just saw it would dissolve into the same nonsense as always with the same spammers.

Plus people need to stop using the word Fascist since they have no idea what it means.



George Orwell in 1944 published this article and even back then Fascism was used basically as a swear word. It has no meaning.
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Re: I would like to know what "Zero Tolerance" means

Post by Heroine Addict »

Yay! George Orville, author of 1974 and Animal House.

Another X on the Political Thread Bingo Card.
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Re: I would like to know what "Zero Tolerance" means

Post by DrDominator9 »

Just a heads up, folks... the moderators here all have lives to live that don't involve this site and as such can't patrol the many threads here all the time. So there can be instances where political innuendo and malfeasance appear before we can get to them.

We will try to be more rigorous about political blasts when they occur but that said clamping down on every political statement just isn't realistic and will lead to a very oppressive atmosphere. It is a tightrope act at the best of times and this ain't those times. We appreciate your understanding that we're trying our best.
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Re: I would like to know what "Zero Tolerance" means

Post by tallyho »

NotUv2 wrote: 6 months ago Not trying to be hypercritical or anything @tallyho but I mean, to judge from the "jokey comment," you did very clearly have enough time to register that it was a Fox News link and what was going on.

So you are advocating we read Foxnews in a link and lock the thread without even seeing what it's saying?
I posted a BBC link to the first female writer of Wonder Woman passing away. If I or someone happened to get that story from Fox then what, it gets shut immediately?

It took me about a second to look at that link in the thread and register only that it was Foxnews, whereas reading the article or video or whatever it was was bound to take some time, that at that stage in the morning I didn't want to spend.
So yes I very clearly have seconds on my hands at 11 minutes past midnight but not much more.
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Re: I would like to know what "Zero Tolerance" means

Post by ivandobsky »

On the topic of the tweets, about which I haven't really investigated and don't really have a pre-formed opinion, (I didn't like the "Imagine" video but she seems nice enough), hopefully we can agree that posting text in images is regrettable.
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Re: I would like to know what "Zero Tolerance" means

Post by tallyho »

DrDominator9 wrote: 6 months ago We appreciate your understanding that we're trying our best.
I'm not, I'm just naturally fucking useless.
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Re: I would like to know what "Zero Tolerance" means

Post by Dazzle1 »

Mr. X wrote: 6 months ago I wasn't attacking you Dazzle1. I actually side with Israel since its the more progressive group. I see NO green progressive check marks on the Palestinian score card. I just saw it would dissolve into the same nonsense as always with the same spammers.

Plus people need to stop using the word Fascist since they have no idea what it means.



George Orwell in 1944 published this article and even back then Fascism was used basically as a swear word. It has no meaning.
Mr X it wasn't you.

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Re: I would like to know what "Zero Tolerance" means

Post by Mr. X »

Dazzle1 wrote: 6 months ago Mr X it wasn't you.

If I said it was you, I apologize
Cool cause I asked to lock the thread. Just wanted to be clear it wasn't cause I disagree.
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Re: I would like to know what "Zero Tolerance" means

Post by theScribbler »

Dazzle1 wrote: 6 months ago
MightyHypnotic wrote: 6 months ago You're referring to the Gal Gadot thread, I did not view that as political. It was a thread about an actress who portrayed an iconic character of our genre and the was newsworthy and worth mentioning. If it devolves into something other than that then yes, it gets locked.

@Dazzle1 You were not being attacked. Lots of people make fun of Fox News.
(Personally, I read it along with CNN and a few others and form my own opinion.)
Fascist right wing rhetoric sounds like a personal attack
Looking back I see "fascist wingnut rhetoric" and not "Fascist right wing rhetoric."

So 'wingnut' = 'right wing.' OK, then. I did not know that, but seems accurate...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wingnut_(politics)

And Mr. X got me to look up 'fascist.' ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascist_(insult)
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Re: I would like to know what "Zero Tolerance" means

Post by Dazzle1 »

theScribbler wrote: 6 months ago
Dazzle1 wrote: 6 months ago
MightyHypnotic wrote: 6 months ago You're referring to the Gal Gadot thread, I did not view that as political. It was a thread about an actress who portrayed an iconic character of our genre and the was newsworthy and worth mentioning. If it devolves into something other than that then yes, it gets locked.

@Dazzle1 You were not being attacked. Lots of people make fun of Fox News.
(Personally, I read it along with CNN and a few others and form my own opinion.)
Fascist right wing rhetoric sounds like a personal attack
Looking back I see "fascist wingnut rhetoric" and not "Fascist right wing rhetoric."

So 'wingnut' = 'right wing.' OK, then. I did not know that, but seems accurate...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wingnut_(politics)

And Mr. X got me to look up 'fascist.' ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascist_(insult)

I won't go a rant about Wikipedia other than say they are not a reliable source on anything
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Re: I would like to know what "Zero Tolerance" means

Post by Mr. X »

theScribbler wrote: 6 months ago
And Mr. X got me to look up 'fascist.' ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascist_(insult)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definitio ... ert_Paxton

Yes there are dozens of definitions, most of which make the term so broad as to be useless. Usually the definition from Benito Mussolini: "Tutto nello Stato, niente al di fuori dello Stato, nulla contro lo Stato" --- "Everything within the State, nothing outside the State, nothing against the State."

But that could apply to all communist states.

Usually the definition is along the lines of

1. Assertion of an "overwhelming crisis" beyond the reach of traditional solutions;
2. Assertion that one's group or nation is "the victim" (despite somehow being "naturally superior"), and that this alleged "victim status" therefore justifies any and every action, without legal or moral limits;
3. Assertion of a need for authority exercised by a "natural leader" who must operate "unconstrained by law", and who relies on "the superiority of his instincts";
4. Assertion that "foreigners" or "foreign elements" are somehow "contaminating", "degenerating", or "diluting" the alleged "superior" nation or group;
5. Assertion that said "superior" nation or group have a collective "right" to dominate others without legal or moral restraint, and that said "collective right" will be exercised through the person of the "Great Leader".

This could describe any zealous group or nation from GOP manifest destiny to leftist climate change.

So yes the definition of fascism is pretty much an insult. It has no more meaning than calling someone a boo boo head.
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Re: I would like to know what "Zero Tolerance" means

Post by tallyho »

I would just point out your Orwellian reference regards to just referring to it as a swear word was when they were trying to enslave humanity at the time, so it's surely natural that it becomes a derogatory term when you are fighting for the survival of the free world against such people
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Re: I would like to know what "Zero Tolerance" means

Post by ivandobsky »

tallyho wrote: 6 months ago I would just point out your Orwellian reference regards to just referring to it as a swear word was when they were trying to enslave humanity at the time, so it's surely natural that it becomes a derogatory term when you are fighting for the survival of the free world against such people
It's also natural that words that people have a strong emotional attachment to and there is no clear definition of clear consensus about what it means, will be weaponised.
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Re: I would like to know what "Zero Tolerance" means

Post by MightyHypnotic »

I didn't see the words fascist anywhere I guess it was already deleted.
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Re: I would like to know what "Zero Tolerance" means

Post by Mr. X »

tallyho wrote: 6 months ago I would just point out your Orwellian reference regards to just referring to it as a swear word was when they were trying to enslave humanity at the time, so it's surely natural that it becomes a derogatory term when you are fighting for the survival of the free world against such people
Given that was 1944 and they were "closer" to the actual events I would think the definition would be more exact. Kind of like defining Antifa today vs someone defining it 70 years later. And communists were also "taking over the world" so again more vagueness.

Basically fascist = "the baddies".
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Re: I would like to know what "Zero Tolerance" means

Post by NotUv2 »

I don't want to seem like I'm expecting the moderators' lives to revolve completely around the site and for them to be able to instantly act on every little thing. I get that.

And in this particular case, the reference to "fascist wingnut rhetoric" in my original post was a bit over the top. I retract that.

I am, however, very confused by this:
MightyHypnotic wrote: 6 months agoYou're referring to the Gal Gadot thread, I did not view that as political. It was a thread about an actress who portrayed an iconic character of our genre and the was newsworthy and worth mentioning.
It was literally a thread about Gadot's politics and the public response to it as regards an ongoing violent crisis in the Middle East. So that would seem to be one very finely split hair to rule it out as "political."

Whatevs.
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Re: I would like to know what "Zero Tolerance" means

Post by Dazzle1 »

NotUv2 wrote: 6 months ago I don't want to seem like I'm expecting the moderators' lives to revolve completely around the site and for them to be able to instantly act on every little thing. I get that.

And in this particular case, the reference to "fascist wingnut rhetoric" in my original post was a bit over the top. I retract that.

I am, however, very confused by this:
MightyHypnotic wrote: 6 months agoYou're referring to the Gal Gadot thread, I did not view that as political. It was a thread about an actress who portrayed an iconic character of our genre and the was newsworthy and worth mentioning.
It was literally a thread about Gadot's politics and the public response to it as regards an ongoing violent crisis in the Middle East. So that would seem to be one very finely split hair to rule it out as "political."

Whatevs.
No it was about Gadot being Jewish.

She appeals for calm for both sides

She was being attacked for the crime of being Israeli and Jewish the same way she was when she was going to portray an Egyptian
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Re: I would like to know what "Zero Tolerance" means

Post by MightyHypnotic »

NotUv2 wrote: 6 months ago I don't want to seem like I'm expecting the moderators' lives to revolve completely around the site and for them to be able to instantly act on every little thing. I get that.

And in this particular case, the reference to "fascist wingnut rhetoric" in my original post was a bit over the top. I retract that.

I am, however, very confused by this:
MightyHypnotic wrote: 6 months agoYou're referring to the Gal Gadot thread, I did not view that as political. It was a thread about an actress who portrayed an iconic character of our genre and the was newsworthy and worth mentioning.
It was literally a thread about Gadot's politics and the public response to it as regards an ongoing violent crisis in the Middle East. So that would seem to be one very finely split hair to rule it out as "political."

Whatevs.
Ok, I'll accept whatevs.

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Re: I would like to know what "Zero Tolerance" means

Post by MightyHypnotic »

And the rest of you...stop reporting this thread!
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Re: I would like to know what "Zero Tolerance" means

Post by argento »

Bouncing of the breasts during exercise can cause pain and damage Cooper's ligaments. Does that bra provide support in the right area? :hmmm: :hmmm:
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Re: I would like to know what "Zero Tolerance" means

Post by xxxwarriorxxx »

Important question....where is that amazing GIF of the babe in the green bikini from?
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Re: I would like to know what "Zero Tolerance" means

Post by DrDominator9 »

It looks like Jennifer Garner but I can't pin down the movie.
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Re: I would like to know what "Zero Tolerance" means

Post by tallyho »

argento wrote: 6 months ago Bouncing of the breasts during exercise can cause pain and damage Cooper's ligaments. Does that bra provide support in the right area? :hmmm: :hmmm:
It's not a bra it's a bikini
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Re: I would like to know what "Zero Tolerance" means

Post by argento »

tallyho wrote: 6 months ago
argento wrote: 6 months ago Bouncing of the breasts during exercise can cause pain and damage Cooper's ligaments. Does that bra provide support in the right area? :hmmm: :hmmm:
It's not a bra it's a bikini
It is the way it is called in my country, for lingerie, gym clothes or beachwear.
It is called a bra, although it does not have the function of holding. My language is very different from yours.
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Re: I would like to know what "Zero Tolerance" means

Post by MightyHypnotic »

I don't know where it's from. It's a random gif I found.
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Re: I would like to know what "Zero Tolerance" means

Post by tallyho »

argento wrote: 6 months ago
tallyho wrote: 6 months ago
argento wrote: 6 months ago Bouncing of the breasts during exercise can cause pain and damage Cooper's ligaments. Does that bra provide support in the right area? :hmmm: :hmmm:
It's not a bra it's a bikini
It is the way it is called in my country, for lingerie, gym clothes or beachwear.
It is called a bra, although it does not have the function of holding. My language is very different from yours.
Thank you, we live and learn! I'm intrigued now about other differences, might start a thread on this :thumbup:
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Re: I would like to know what "Zero Tolerance" means

Post by NotUv2 »

MightyHypnotic wrote: 6 months ago I don't know where it's from. It's a random gif I found.
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Re: I would like to know what "Zero Tolerance" means

Post by Femina »

So.... JUST to be clear.

Making fun of Donald Trump's mishandling of pretty much everything = Political rhetoric

Discussing Isreal's problems with other countries and the problems that result from these conflicts.... NOT Political? Or is it just that Gal Gadot was the inciting link into the Isreali stuff?

Dissing on Fox News isn't politics? I mean don't get me wrong I find Fox News to be a good lark as much as the next 'leftist' but like... that's still politics?

This is the problem with a 'zero tolerance' Politics policy. What's politics to one person isn't to another... when in actuality ALL of it is politics.

"Is Wonder Woman hotter than Supergirl? Weigh in!" - Politics

"Top Ten best Superheroines" - Politics

"People are dying cause they won't wear masks!" -Politics, relevant and impactful though it be.

"I saw a log yesterday that made me think of Orange Juice" -acceptable non-political discourse I guess-also boring and essentially with no value for discussion..... unless you have also seen the log? I mean if you've seen the log we can discuss it... it's a weird log right?

It's going to be a lot harder to police this than I think anybody realizes. Some people are going to talk about things they don't realize constitute politics to someone else and get punished or banned for it... when all that was really necessary was to continue enforcing a no tolerance policy for personal attacks. I GET that watching Scribbler and Dazzle1sling bile at one another without even the pretense of discourse affects the 'vibe'... but the only reason that always devolves into what it does in the first place... is cause they're violating the no tolerance policy on personal attacks in the first place? The Politics themselves are just the setting.
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Re: I would like to know what "Zero Tolerance" means

Post by argento »

tallyho wrote: 6 months ago
argento wrote: 6 months ago
tallyho wrote: 6 months ago
argento wrote: 6 months ago Bouncing of the breasts during exercise can cause pain and damage Cooper's ligaments. Does that bra provide support in the right area? :hmmm: :hmmm:
It's not a bra it's a bikini
It is the way it is called in my country, for lingerie, gym clothes or beachwear.
It is called a bra, although it does not have the function of holding. My language is very different from yours.
Thank you, we live and learn! I'm intrigued now about other differences, might start a thread on this :thumbup:
I'm learning from you. I wanted to make a joke with an illogical question, since no one can care. Referring to your concern I have noticed that they call certain garments thongs. Like in this picture from a 1994 book. We know it by the name of "Cola less" thong is the panty that exposes the buttocks and is low rise. The word "cola less" does not have an exact translation, since it is a combination of a noun with an adjective. It would be something like "less ass".
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Re: I would like to know what "Zero Tolerance" means

Post by tallyho »

Funnily enough 'I wonder what they call thongs' was the first thing I thought of!
How strange are the ways of the gods ...........and how cruel.

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Re: I would like to know what "Zero Tolerance" means

Post by Bert »

Femina wrote: 6 months ago "Is Wonder Woman hotter than Supergirl? Weigh in!" - Politics

"Top Ten best Superheroines" - Politics

"People are dying cause they won't wear masks!" -Politics, relevant and impactful though it be.
Ughh. Fuck me. I've been trying so hard to stay out of this.


Look at the forum. Look at the threads that create the issues that everyone is fighting over. Open your eyes.

Wonder Woman hotter than Supergirl? That's not political. At all.

Top ten best superheroines? Not political. At all.

Masks and covid? EXTREMELY political, thanks to the Lysol King.

Discussing politics isn't inherently bad. Reasonable people can disagree over politics and still be friendly and cordial. I have significant political differences with several members on this site, and I still consider them friends. Banning political conversation is a fool's errand. It pops up all the time. Why not just take the obvious solution and ban people who keep raising these shitstorms? If you simply banned Dazzle1 from the site, at least half of this crap would disappear. Mr. X is currently engaged in a full scale peace offensive because he realizes that if the mods take the simple step of banning him, most of the other 50% of the crap would also be gone.

Politics isn't the problem. Titanic assholes are the problem. Just ban them.
A brief synopsis of my heroine peril stories is linked below.
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Re: I would like to know what "Zero Tolerance" means

Post by Imagineer »

Femina wrote: 6 months ago ...all that was really necessary was to continue enforcing a no tolerance policy for personal attacks. I GET that watching Scribbler and Dazzle1sling bile at one another without even the pretense of discourse affects the 'vibe'... but the only reason that always devolves into what it does in the first place... is cause they're violating the no tolerance policy on personal attacks in the first place? The Politics themselves are just the setting.
I disagree. Threads get yanked into the drainage ditch by political cliches, and then trapped by the insistence that no political cliche go unanswered. This is more toxic to the forum than when originally-political threads cross that semantic line of "personal attack."
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Re: I would like to know what "Zero Tolerance" means

Post by Dazzle1 »

Bert wrote: 6 months ago
Femina wrote: 6 months ago "Is Wonder Woman hotter than Supergirl? Weigh in!" - Politics

"Top Ten best Superheroines" - Politics

"People are dying cause they won't wear masks!" -Politics, relevant and impactful though it be.
Ughh. Fuck me. I've been trying so hard to stay out of this.


Look at the forum. Look at the threads that create the issues that everyone is fighting over. Open your eyes.

Wonder Woman hotter than Supergirl? That's not political. At all.

Top ten best superheroines? Not political. At all.

Masks and covid? EXTREMELY political, thanks to the Lysol King.

Discussing politics isn't inherently bad. Reasonable people can disagree over politics and still be friendly and cordial. I have significant political differences with several members on this site, and I still consider them friends. Banning political conversation is a fool's errand. It pops up all the time. Why not just take the obvious solution and ban people who keep raising these shitstorms? If you simply banned Dazzle1 from the site, at least half of this crap would disappear. Mr. X is currently engaged in a full scale peace offensive because he realizes that if the mods take the simple step of banning him, most of the other 50% of the crap would also be gone.

Politics isn't the problem. Titanic assholes are the problem. Just ban them.
Or simply banning you? For trying to cancel someone.

Again this was pointing out a Wonder Woman actress being attacked for being Jewish
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Re: I would like to know what "Zero Tolerance" means

Post by KnightsofGotham.com »

No one asked me
Im not the owner or the mod
I have zero power to change anything here.
However I will give my worthless 2 cents and move on.

The moment anyone.
on either side
Makes a comment that is known to incite and inflame AND is nothing more than an obvious bait question
its political.

how everyone reacts to that statement determines the status of that thread

The feminist who insists that all men are dogs and should be put down is free to express her opinion
The sexist who says That Superheroines are being ruined because the SJW are taking away her sexuality is free to express his opinion

The moment the feminist attacks the sexist or vice versa the thread has entered into a red zone where it could spiral out of control and ruin a thread.
ruin it for everyone
You are to blame.
it doesnt matter your politics


The solution?
Read carefully what the opposing side said.
actually read the words fully.
What are they trying to say?
are they pushing the line?
do you feel you need to reply to defend the opposite side?
DONT!
report the person and tell the mods why you feel that comment was wrong.
Dont engage.
feel free to start a new thread and explain your position if you like but dont derail the thread!
by defending the opposite side you open a dialog that will most likely end in name calling and everyone who was enjoying the thread will have it ruined by YOU (not the person who stated their original opinion)
Trust the owner and the mods to handle any situation that gets out of hand.
you dont have to do it yourself.
If you send several complaints and nothing gets done and you are ignored then understand that the owner/mods dont agree with you and probably the majority doesn't either
use that information to decide whether you want to stay in a forum that caters to the other side so heavy handedly.

Again this forum is for superheroines to talk about superheroines.
its meant for a large group of people.
if your opinion derails a thread about something non-political then you are in the wrong.
you are the problem
you are ther one disturbing the enjoyment

Having said that no one says your voice needs to be silenced.
Start a new thread and say whats on your mind and in your heart.

Dont derail a thread with your need to save a side or opposite opinion.
make your voice heard elsewhere if you must.
Report the behaviors to the authorities and let them handle it or not.
if they handle it then the thread is saved.
if they dont handle it it tells you alot.
dont be the dick that ruines every thread with pointless arguing about things that dont belong in that thread.
dont be a dick.
let people enjoy things



______ALSO_____
Many people come here to get away from the heavy atmosphere of the real world.
the last thing they want to see is this forum bathing in heavy arguments about the same stuff we are in here trying to escape.
you're a douchbag dickhead who feels your right to be heard is more important that the needs of the entire forum to entertain their brains for a bit.


The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few
(or the one)
take a lesson from our pointy eared friend and keep your fucking mouth shut, report the behavior and move on.
start a new thread if you must but keep the current topic whole and untouched by your filthy needs to be right over everyone elses need to have entertainment.
this goes for both sides.
no one is innocent here
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Re: I would like to know what "Zero Tolerance" means

Post by Femina »

Bert wrote: 6 months ago Ughh. Fuck me. I've been trying so hard to stay out of this.


Look at the forum. Look at the threads that create the issues that everyone is fighting over. Open your eyes.

Wonder Woman hotter than Supergirl? That's not political. At all.

Top ten best superheroines? Not political. At all.
They are Bert, and this is precisely what I'm getting at when I noted that politics mean different things individually. We all have 'bars' set up along the political goal line where we mark out 'this is the edge of politicking... but all they do is mark out our comfort zones in dealing with politics. Politics aren't limited to conflict based discussions about government. That's what many BELIEVE it is, that's perhaps what's become most aligned with politics as descriptor by say, American standards, but a discussion between two people suitably motivated enough between who the hotter superheroine is... has absolutely the same inherent debate mechanics involved as an argument over the better World Leader. It's the same basic behavior, and can lead to the same motivation of disagreement and eventual arguments. Simply because an argument over which of two characters is sexier maybe didn't devolve into an incident doesn't mean that it was incapable of becoming so by nature of there being nothing inherently governmental about it... banning 'politics' isn't going to solve disagreement.

That's why I say banning 'Politics' is banning discourse. I don't know where your political thresholds are, I don't know where DrDominator's political limits are, more pertinently I don't know where the moderator's political limits are. Which is why I say, the better solution remains to simply enforce the zero tolerance policy on personal attacks since it's by and large much easier to deduce when somebody is directly calling someone names or treating them poorly... even up to and including the SEVARITY of that poor treatment.
Imagineer wrote: 6 months ago I disagree. Threads get yanked into the drainage ditch by political cliches, and then trapped by the insistence that no political cliche go unanswered. This is more toxic to the forum than when originally-political threads cross that semantic line of "personal attack."
I guess I agree that threads get yanked around a lot... I disagree that the motivator for that is as simple as just 'politics.' Disagreement is an inherent factor of discussion, human beings don't like being disagreed with as like... a cosmic joke or something, but human nature isn't a result of politics, politics are a result of human nature. If we don't have politics to disagree about we'll simply find something else (and certianly we DO argue about other things than just government quite regularly). The fault, from my point of view, is in finding harm in disagreement. Argument isn't bad. Argument can lead to introspection, maybe not between the individuals arguing, rarely immediately, but disagreement isn't by nature hostile or made of ill intent or bad faith or without merit. People like to believe there's some catch all cure the motivator behind disagreement. Like if we don't have government to argue about we'll all suddenly become happy with one another and hold hands while the roses bloom... but we won't. We're all human beings with different experiences, life lessons and behaviors. We'll inevitably find points of argument, my platform is simply that argument isn't a sign of an unhealthy forum...

MH surely has better information than us on this. He's got user numbers and all else so I'm sure he's got more to bank on than just little ol' me... but I'm invariably going to side-eye ANY discussion on banning any form of discussion. To me, a limitation on what we can talk about is always going to hurt more than help in the end... but I'm no fortune teller. Guess we'll see how it works out.
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Re: I would like to know what "Zero Tolerance" means

Post by Bert »

Cambridge Dictionary

politics
noun
uk
/ˈpɒl.ə.tɪks/ us
/ˈpɑː.lə.tɪks/
B1 [ U ]
the activities of the government, members of law-making organizations, or people who try to influence the way a country is governed:
Joe is very active in left-wing politics.
[ U ]
the job of holding a position of power in the government:
The group is campaigning to get more women into politics.
He is planning to retire from politics next year.
[ U ]
the study of the ways in which a country is governed:
She studied politics at Leicester University.

the relationships within a group or organization that allow particular people to have power over others:
I don't like to get involved in office politics.
More examples

After 30 years in politics, our local member of parliament is retiring next year.
Ms Doughty entered politics after a career in banking.
He was a powerful force in British politics during the war years.
She has a degree in sociology and politics.
In the old days of two-party adversarial politics, voting was easy.

Who's hotter? Best superheroine? Not politics. Calling it politics broadens the meaning of the word to complete uselessness. There is no governance and no power differential in discussing such things.

Anyway, the main thrust of my post was to say that it's not political discussion per se that ruin threads, it's attitude, trolling and unreasonableness. There are only a couple people currently posting on this forum who consistently do this. I blocked them and suggested others do the same, but no one listened. These two people keep baiting the group and the group keeps biting. So if two people are ruining the forum and driving good, thoughtful members away, I say ban them.
A brief synopsis of my heroine peril stories is linked below.
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Re: I would like to know what "Zero Tolerance" means

Post by DrDominator9 »

Hi guys and gals!

Clamping down on discourse is not the aim of the moderators or Mighty Hypnotic. Especially when it is civil and well reasoned. Clamping down on personal attacks IS the aim of the moderators and MH. That is the zero tolerance policy that we're trying to affect here.

I can't help but agree with Knights of Gotham when he declares that many of us here come to enjoy our superheroine diversion without the heavy sauce of political diatribe ladled so thickly over the threads here. But discourse is discourse and if it's well behaved it won't be cancelled. KoG did describe parties here as douchebag dickheads which is unacceptable but since it was so broadly defined and not pointed at any one individual but used as an example of how not to behave, there won't be repercussions. Be careful how you address your fellow heroine fans here, people.

Thanks for listening,

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Re: I would like to know what "Zero Tolerance" means

Post by Philo Hunter »

If there is ever "punishments" dolled out will the forum at large be informed? The healthiest, most enjoyable forums I've spent time on have had a thread where suspensions (temporary and permanent) are announced with a reason. Being able to see what cross the mods line and seeing the consequences always seems to help. Does this kind of thing already exist on here and I am just missing it?
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Re: I would like to know what "Zero Tolerance" means

Post by Femina »

Philo Hunter wrote: 6 months ago If there is ever "punishments" dolled out will the forum at large be informed? The healthiest, most enjoyable forums I've spent time on have had a thread where suspensions (temporary and permanent) are announced with a reason. Being able to see what cross the mods line and seeing the consequences always seems to help. Does this kind of thing already exist on here and I am just missing it?
That's a double edged sword. Dragging people out into the market square for a public hanging is a little bit... 'official' for a fetish forum for my taste... there's definate value there in having tangible circumstances to judge ones own actions by... but I'm not sure that's good enough... we're a fetish website not the Spanish inquisition. It's probable that most of us won't have any business in what anyone else gets banned for unless you're like... the victim of banworthy behavior?
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Re: I would like to know what "Zero Tolerance" means

Post by DrDominator9 »

Banishments in the past have come after warnings to refrain from specific behavior, usually noted in the thread itself and sent to the member via a PM. If similar behavior reoccurs or the behavior is blatantly egregious in the eyes of the moderators in consultation, then that member is banned for a set length of time based on the severity of the infraction. It can be one week, two weeks, a month or more.
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Re: I would like to know what "Zero Tolerance" means

Post by Imagineer »

Femina wrote: 6 months ago
Imagineer wrote: 6 months ago I disagree. Threads get yanked into the drainage ditch by political cliches, and then trapped by the insistence that no political cliche go unanswered. This is more toxic to the forum than when originally-political threads cross that semantic line of "personal attack."
I guess I agree that threads get yanked around a lot... I disagree that the motivator for that is as simple as just 'politics.'
NO. Not yanked around. Yanked into a ditch to ax-grind, original discussion topic lost.
Actually, not a ditch -- a trench. It devolves into trench warfare. Not discussions, recitations. I get that this excites *you*, but this is not superleftversusrightforum.com. Nuanced discussion gets murdered by team conformist playback. You've slit those throats yourself with a not-listening-just-attacking-keywords zeal that betrays your hot blood before anybody's committed the semantic sin of personal attack.

We can't have nice things because dominant posters don't want nice things, they want to own the room, even when it means trashing it. Playing the anything-but-the-forbidden-syntax game is going to make four people happy and everyone else tiptoe around until they realize they don't even like ballet.

To hell with this.
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Re: I would like to know what "Zero Tolerance" means

Post by RedMountain »

Honestly it's getting harder and harder to come to this forum now due to so many threads getting hijacked and devolving into mud slinging fests between 4-5 of the same people every time. I personally don't understand the enjoyment or need to get so emotionally involved that you type out pages and pages of responses to people who aren't going to be swayed in the slightest. It's tough to talk about politics or religion because 90% of the time the people involved aren't emotionally balanced enough to do so and someone is almost always going to get mad and head down the personal attack/trolling road.

I know the superheroine thing seems to be slowing down a bit, maybe even getting phased out a little bit if the main forum is anything to go by, but it's kind of sad to see this place just boil down to a couple of people getting angry and arguing with each other all day.
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Re: I would like to know what "Zero Tolerance" means

Post by NotUv2 »

RedMountain wrote: 6 months agoI know the superheroine thing seems to be slowing down a bit, maybe even getting phased out a little bit if the main forum is anything to go by, but it's kind of sad to see this place just boil down to a couple of people getting angry and arguing with each other all day.
I was willing to give the "no politics" rule a chance, honestly. It's sounding like less and less of a dramatic difference from what preceded it the more we hear from the mods, though. Ah, well.
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