Living in the shadow of the corona virus

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five_red
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Damselbinder wrote:
3 years ago
Okay

"the economy grew under Trump" does not mean "the economy shrank under Obama". The one does not logically imply the other.

You... do understand that, right?
The economy crashed under George W Bush, largely caused by reckless activity in the investment banking markets after successive deregulations since the Reagan administration (Republicans and Democrats.) Obama inherited the crash, and used Keynesian economics on a breathtaking scale to invest money into the economy, securing jobs and communities while also building up infrastructure. This is basically the same tactic used by previous presidents since the 1920s when faced by recessions (including Republicans up until the Thatcherite/Reaganomics ideas of the 1980s), although Obama/Biden did it to a greater extent I believe. By the end of the Obama presidency that investment started to pay off when the commercial sector started to flourish and employment started to grow. This is the economy that Trump inherited.

It is true that the stock market under Trump has set record breaking highs. The stock market under Obama also set record breaking highs. Indeed the stock market has set a record breaking high at some point under every president since Reagan, except George H W Bush (the first Bush.) Yup, even under George W Bush (the second Bush) the stock market managed to break records in between 9/11 and the financial crash that bookended his term in office.

What you have to understand is that economies take years to turn around, longer than a single four year term in office. So, the recession or boom of one president was nearly always caused by his predecessor. The growth of the economy continued under Trump, but it didn't significantly change course from what it was doing in the final months of Obama.

Obama stimulated economic growth by borrowing heavily and investing in jobs and infrastructure (more efficient energy, better Internet, etc.) Trump's plan to continue to stimulate the economy was to borrow heavily and fund tax cuts (short term cuts for the majority, perminent cuts for the very wealthy.) Some economists claimed that the cost of the cuts would more than pay for themselves by boosting the economy just like Obama's investment, but without the need for government to get involved with directing where the money went. Other economists disagreed and thought that Trump's tax cuts would just add significantly to the national debt without paying for themselves with economic growth. Based on data up to January 2020, the plan seemed to be falling short of Republican hopes, but the argument is now academic as Covid-19 then went and wrecked the economy so we'll never know what would have happened between January and election day in November.

R5
Bert

The simple truth of national level economics is that you borrow money to stimulate the economy when bad times hit. When times are good you reduce spending to get debt under control and prepare for the next downturn. Bush and then Obama did their part by borrowing massively to bail out a seriously damaged economy. By the time Trump took over things were in much better shape. His job was to maintain economic strength while reducing borrowing. Instead, Trump passed a massive tax cut that almost entirely benefited the wealthy and corporations. Companies used the enormous windfall to buy back their own stock, supercharging the markets and executives' bonus packages. Those surging markets and massive increases in the wealth levels of the one percent are paid for with borrowed money, locking future generations into paying for today's jetsetters' new yachts.

Fifty years ago, stuff like this would be understood and agreed upon by the vast majority of people. Sadly, we now live in an age where facts, evidence, cause and effect, integrity, even common decency cannot be counted on among our leaders or the population at large. Almost 300,000 Americans have died from a global pandemic. That's about as pressing and unambiguous as facts get, but tens of millions of Americans think it's all a hoax. People dying of covid in hospitals around the country are denying it exists with their final breaths. Making the choice to live in an alternate reality that conforms to one's personal biases can have savagely dire consequences.
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Dazzle1 wrote:
3 years ago
Imagineer wrote:
3 years ago
Dazzle1 wrote:
3 years ago
The Senate and President proposed a covid only bill. Nancy now is for a bill with less money, because Biden got elected.
"covid only bill" is mendacious nonsense.
No it is what is needed.

There is no need to fund cities that were in trouble because of their pension obligations before Covid . When the economy had recovered from the Obama recession.
In fact we should drain the pension fund of all politicians current and former to give to working people
You are so deep into nonsense and alternative facts that you are beyond reach. I pray one day you find your way out of the cult.
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If U C Xmas tree on TV show
it's Xmas Activism! :christmas:

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it's Dark Haired Women Activism!

Be very careful!
Don't B indoctrinated!
Cover your eyes! & ears!
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Imagineer wrote:
3 years ago
Dazzle1 wrote:
3 years ago
Imagineer wrote:
3 years ago
Dazzle1 wrote:
3 years ago
The Senate and President proposed a covid only bill. Nancy now is for a bill with less money, because Biden got elected.
"covid only bill" is mendacious nonsense.
No it is what is needed.

There is no need to fund cities that were in trouble because of their pension obligations before Covid . When the economy had recovered from the Obama recession.
In fact we should drain the pension fund of all politicians current and former to give to working people
You are so deep into nonsense and alternative facts that you are beyond reach. I pray one day you find your way out of the cult.
So you approve of rewarding over paid officials instead of diverting money to the people who have been hurt by the pandemic.
Bert

It's not like I don't have a rep for being argumentative, so take that into account when I say this: Don't engage with Dazzle1. It's pointless. Where's the utility in forming cogent rebuttals to obvious bullshit, only to face yet more bullshit in response? He's a troll. Don't feed him.
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See Trumps big Covid meeting was just a photo op for him to sign a totally pointless mandate that his own head of Operation Warp Speed admitted wouldn't do anything and he couldn't see the point of it. Its like Mr Burns telling the All Star Isotopes " You! Hit that ball! ' (1 HOME RUN LATER) " See I TOLD him to do that, Smithers"
It's just pathetic.
It's the 42 stand-in Melanias I feel sorry for. What will become of them come January?
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Bert wrote:
3 years ago
It's not like I don't have a rep for being argumentative, so take that into account when I say this: Don't engage with Dazzle1. It's pointless. Where's the utility in forming cogent rebuttals to obvious bullshit, only to face yet more bullshit in response? He's a troll. Don't feed him.
There isn't really a point to getting into a Punch and Judy slanging match with people, true, but for the sake of explaining the counterarguments to the lurking audience it can be quite useful. You may never be able to convince the person you're arguing against, but you can prevent onlookers from falling down the same rabbit hole.

There's an old saying about "you can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into", but that's not entirely true. It is possible for someone who has fallen for a conspiracy theory to see how they are being manipulated, and to abandon the conspiracy, but it is sadly very rare. The problem with conspiracy theorists is not that they ask awkward questions, it is that they refuse to listen to coherent evidence-based answers when provided. Anti-vaxers, for example, believe they are the smart one's because they have all these questions that nobody can give them answers to. They fire off question after question "that nobody has ever ever ever been able to answer". But when you give them comprehensive answers, they neither provide counterarguments, nor admit you may be right. They literally pretend they didn't hear your answers and carry on talking about unanswered questions.

People who fall for conspiracies are not idiots. Gullibility and IQ are unrelated skills; one can have a high IQ and still fall for nonsense ideas. Indeed the higher your IQ, the more likely you are to fall for bad ideas if you aren't disciplined, because your brainpower actually acts as a weapon against you, convincing you that there's ways that 2+2 can indeed sometimes equal 5. This is precisely why you'll often see some very intelligent people putting their name behind Holocaust denial, or 9/11 conspiracies, or anti-vax.

Carl Sagan used to talk about The Balony Detection Kit that everyone needed to learn to spot bad arguments. His 'critical thinking skills' kit was nothing more than a set of rules that avoided common reasoning mistakes most people made (even highly intelligent people) when considering arguments. Turns out that there are only so many tactics that can be employed to sell a false idea - - even the Ancient Greeks recognised that - - and every conspiracy (from JFK's murder, to moon landing hoaxes, to flat earth, to stolen elections) uses variations on these same tactics. Sagan suggested that once you knew the common templates for bad arguments, it was usually possible to detect b***s*** even if you didn't know the technical specifics of the topic being talked about. (See his book, The Demon Haunted World, for more.)

There's a huge industry now based around creating and maintaining these conspiracies - - pumping out argument after argument that exploit cognative blind spots commonly found in humans. If you've watched the documentaries "The Brainwashing of My Dad" or "After Truth" you'll have seen examples of exactly how talk radio and certain news outlets have deliberately crafted content that pushes people towards conspiracies, because it is good for ratings. And how conspiracies on social media drive clicks, which increases ad revenue. But you'll also see rare examples in those documentaries of people waking up to the fact that they are being manipulated, and actually starting to apply critical thinking skills (Sagan's Balony Detection) to all the information they consume from every source. So it does sometimes happen. Sometimes. :D

R5
Bert

Good luck with that in this instance.
Bert

I found a concise rundown of Carl Sagan's Baloney Detection Kit. Excellent reading. Thanks for the tip!

https://www.brainpickings.org/2014/01/0 ... arl-sagan/
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The Thanksgiving spike hasn't hit home yet and with Xmas gatherings I wouldn't be surprised if you crest 4000 a day by second week of Jan.
Just awful.
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Bert wrote:
3 years ago
I found a concise rundown of Carl Sagan's Baloney Detection Kit. Excellent reading. Thanks for the tip!

https://www.brainpickings.org/2014/01/0 ... arl-sagan/
I certainly agree that my country has done a real shitty job of handling this pandemic, from the orange man on down. One of the things I have appreciated on the topic of Living in the Shadow of the Corona Virus is the dispatch reports and updates by folks such as Tally Ho on conditions in his home country, giving insights into how they are coping with this pandemic. What is it like up there in Canada, how are you folks up there dealing with this thing, politicians and citizens alike? I heard that you folks up there had a considerable spike around the time of your Canadian Thanksgiving. I hope you and your fellow countrymen stay safe and healthy and good tidings to all.
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Very sobering statistics, Tallyho on the death toll. Not sure thanks are due for sharing, but like bushwackerbob say, your dispatches from the front there as well as a foreigner's view of what's happening over here are appreciated. As are your well wishes for our plight.
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Our government handling has been inept at times but at least we do have a leadership that shows an interest in trying to stop it, even if their messages are inconsistent and hypocritical.
We've had shambles after shambles here but fortunately the death rates are much lower.
Yes I keep appealing for any updates from all around the globe. In the words of countless apocalypse survivors on their ham radios in the movies "Is there any body out there?"
Tell us what it's like where you live.
My friend who is a health care worker (love ya Mel) gets her Pfizer jab tomorrow so will let you know what she says
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How bad does one's allergies have to be to choose not to get the vaccine?
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Bert

Much like the States, Canadian provinces have their own character and their own provincial governments. In general, infection numbers are up due to colder weather, and probably some covid fatigue. Alberta is Canada's Texas and they are seeing very high infection rates. The Alberta government is quite conservative and has been reluctant to impose any restrictions, although with hospitals now filling up they have finally relented. I live in B.C. where we have a truly excellent provincial health officer named Dr. Bonnie Henry. She and the minister of health have the power to make and enforce restrictions. They request first, but if numbers don't improve they step in and impose rules. Most businesses are open, although some have restrictions. Gyms that involve strenuous activity are closed, as are churches and nightclubs. It's a very science-based approach to reduce superspreader events. Our new infection numbers are plateaued at around 700 per day in a province of 5 million. Not fantastic, but not terrible either. Canada just approved the Pfizer vaccine today, so that will eventually start helping. We have anti-mask protesters here just like in the States, but the numbers are fairly small.
Bert

DrDominator9 wrote:
3 years ago
How bad does one's allergies have to be to choose not to get the vaccine?
I think it's like if you wouldn't leave home without an epi-pen, don't get the Pfizer vaccine.
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Incidentally I thought day 2 of Gettysburg should be on that list but I think the poster was just making the point that 4 Pearl Harbours in a week ain't good
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You are so deep into nonsense and alternative facts that you are beyond reach. I pray one day you find your way out of the cult.
So you approve of rewarding over paid officials instead of diverting money to the people who have been hurt by the pandemic.
That's the creakiest pivot on a logical fallacy that I've seen in a while.
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tallyho wrote:
3 years ago
_20201209_183226.JPG

https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracke ... endsdeaths

This is directly from the CDC. Note that the graph shows these number but they are now in perspective. We had more deaths at the beginning in March time frame. But this also shows that even though the US increased mask usage, complied with social distancing, closed businesses, forced people home, the numbers are going UP and not down. There is no evidence of increased rates of people not wearing masks.


Why the spike when people are doing MORE of the things they were ordered to do?

You can't draw numbers out of context.

Also Britain isn't doing all that much better
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/202 ... cases.html

Note again the rise in december of deaths. Are brits now not wearing masks? Could it be winter is setting in an covid taking out more elderly? Not sure.

The other problem with cases is its not a good idea to test people who are asymptomatic or have not come in contact with anyone who had Covid because the tests can produce false positives. Sadly the number of people who sought tests after summer went up thereby causing an increase of false positives. PCR cycles above 25 that show a florescent result are most likely not positives and the CDC has the threshold at 40 PCR cycles.

But the things that have to stop are the hyperbole and the condemnation. This is not class warfare. Nothing is being solved by turning Covid into shark-nado and screaming the end of the world is coming or some such nonsense.
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I'm not buying what Mr. X is selling.

The value of mask-wearing is generally accepted by science. Sorry he's unconvinced, but he's also unconvincing.
Just pointing to national or even state-level rates is not drawing valid statistical comparisons that come anywhere close to correlating with mask usage. Indeed now as cities, counties, and states get more active in their responses, a layperson isn't going to be able to make those comparisons on the fly either way, at least not without a metric fuckton of tracking the nuances of policy, compliance, inpatient admissions... all laid on a background of the national abdication of useful testing and tracing. The case was made when the data was clearer.

"There is no evidence of increased rates of people not wearing masks." Well I lol'd.

It's true that it's not the end of the world, though. The 1918 pandemic wasn't, either. But woe to the vulnerable folks who catch it when there aren't any beds left.

Keep rocking the culling, America. There's hope for supervillainy yet.
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Those numbers in the twitter post are interesting, but to put them in perspective a little bit, over 1700 people a day die from heart disease in the United States. It would also be interesting to see other daily death statistics from things like car accidents, etc. Over 7500 people die every day in the US from all kinds of causes, so it's just interesting to see numbers put in perspective.

Not trying to start an argument or anything, this Covid stuff sucks and we've been cooped up in the house(following all the guidelines) since March, and I wish every one would take it a bit more seriously. Hoping things get better for everyone in 2021.
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That's fine Scribbler but nothing here is showing why we have more cases and more deaths when we are wearing masks. There isn't some mass non-wearing mask trend.

Great go wear a mask but don't mandate it under law, don't shut down businesses, don't arrest people.
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RedMountain wrote:
3 years ago
Those numbers in the twitter post are interesting, but to put them in perspective a little bit, over 1700 people a day die from heart disease in the United States. It would also be interesting to see other daily death statistics from things like car accidents, etc. Over 7500 people die every day in the US from all kinds of causes, so it's just interesting to see numbers put in perspective.

Not trying to start an argument or anything, this Covid stuff sucks and we've been cooped up in the house(following all the guidelines) since March, and I wish every one would take it a bit more seriously. Hoping things get better for everyone in 2021.

BUT the point being other causes aren't as easily preventable, and aren't increasing week on week. Those stats are one off disasters and make the point you are having a catastrophe every day. There's no magic wand for hereditary heart defects, or asthma, liver disease etc but the COVID deaths were preventable on this scale, and should have been prevented. You had all the mechanisms in place to put you ahead of the curve, and Trump scrapped them because Obamas name was all over them. Why he didn't just pretend it was down to him like he does with everything else I will never know. But the tragic fact is he didn't and scrapped them.
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Mr. X wrote:
3 years ago

That's fine Scribbler but nothing here is showing why we have more cases and more deaths when we are wearing masks. There isn't some mass non-wearing mask trend.

Great go wear a mask but don't mandate it under law, don't shut down businesses, don't arrest people.
BUT YOU AREN'T CONSISTENTLY THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT. If you were avoiding gatherings and public places, socially distancing and consistently wearing masks you would see low rates like in the far East where countries like NZ have things under control. You and the west in general like UK and Germany etc have a consistent core of the population who don't stick to the rules and then spread it among those who do, a lot being young teenagers who think they can still party. They may be fine but spread it to their families and to those at risk.

If everyone had followed the rules from the beginning you would have shut down, weathered the storm and be open again but the west tried to keep thi gs ticking over rather than take the hard decisions. Totalitarian states just stopped everything, controlled it and reopened. You needed responsible citizenry in Western nations to do the same voluntarily . Unfortunately you just keep having superspreader events like the Georgia rally IN THE MIDDLE of the worst death rates you have seen as a nation


( I accidentally thanked you instead of quoting you Mr X hence I have now removed it,)
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Bert

covid map.jpg
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Look at this map and then keep telling us how America is doing everything it can to contain the pandemic. A few Baltic states, the Republic of Georgia and Lithuania are doing a bit worse than America in per capita infections. You're not quite number one, but you're close.

The truth is simple. America, the richest, most powerful nation on earth, elected a completely unqualified, virtue-free idiot to the presidency. This idiot downplayed the virus early on, pushed unproven treatments and suggested using poisonous disinfectant internally as a treatment. He said again and again that it would just disappear. He said "We're rounding the corner." as infections were spiking around the country. He held and continues to hold superspreader rallies where supporters make a point of not wearing masks to show their allegiance. He has mocked people for mask use.

But the idiot is working hard at something. He's trying to overturn the 2020 election. Have a look where that is headed. The quote is from an Arizona news site:

"The Arizona Republican Party has asked its followers if they are willing to die for the cause of overturning the presidential election results, eliciting alarm and criticism from within and outside the GOP.

The party's official Twitter account on Monday night shared a post from Ali Alexander, an activist with an organization called "Stop the Steal" that has protested election results.

"I am willing to give my life for this fight," Alexander wrote. When sharing his comment, the GOP asked followers: "He is. Are you?"

The party then posted a clip from the movie "Rambo", highlighting the quote: “This is what we do, who we are. Live for nothing, or die for something.”"
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Bert wrote:
3 years ago
covid map.jpg

Look at this map and then keep telling us how America is doing everything it can to contain the pandemic. A few Baltic states, the Republic of Georgia and Lithuania are doing a bit worse than America in per capita infections. You're not quite number one, but you're close.

The truth is simple. America, the richest, most powerful nation on earth, elected a completely unqualified, virtue-free idiot to the presidency. This idiot downplayed the virus early on, pushed unproven treatments and suggested using poisonous disinfectant internally as a treatment. He said again and again that it would just disappear. He said "We're rounding the corner." as infections were spiking around the country. He held and continues to hold superspreader rallies where supporters make a point of not wearing masks to show their allegiance. He has mocked people for mask use.

But the idiot is working hard at something. He's trying to overturn the 2020 election. Have a look where that is headed. The quote is from an Arizona news site:

"The Arizona Republican Party has asked its followers if they are willing to die for the cause of overturning the presidential election results, eliciting alarm and criticism from within and outside the GOP.

The party's official Twitter account on Monday night shared a post from Ali Alexander, an activist with an organization called "Stop the Steal" that has protested election results.

"I am willing to give my life for this fight," Alexander wrote. When sharing his comment, the GOP asked followers: "He is. Are you?"

The party then posted a clip from the movie "Rambo", highlighting the quote: “This is what we do, who we are. Live for nothing, or die for something.”"
Who stopped the Covid relief bill Pelosi and the Dems.

superspreaders were the protesting thugs of BLM and Antifa

If Obama had been President during this death would be over 5 million and he would have not had the courage to fast track the process of the vaccines

The death are China, The Who and Nancy Pelosi's fault

She even has been quoted saying she'll take less now that Biden is President

Stop blaming Trump for China's war crime
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Yeah he's totally committed to solving it.
Screenshot_20201209-222027~2.png
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Well if we're posting videos, then I guess it is what it is...



R5
Bert

Grin! My post was in response to Dazzle1 including The Who in his list of the covid blameworthy.
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Bert wrote:
3 years ago
covid map.jpg
That map is extremely misleading. For example, in the US, the actual hot spots may only be in a few locations and not universally spread. For example here's a hot spot map of the US
https://www.bing.com/covid/local/united ... orm=C19ANS
The point being the vast majority of the US may not be infected or having a high death rate. Also zoome the map out and look at India and Europe. Something is not matching between your map and this map. And this map is the official CDC map.

Again please calm down the hysteria and hyperbole. Its not helping. And the blame game on both sides is not helping. Please don't use this disease as a classist tool to attack some party or some group. This is not about "the dumb rednecks" or "those 'mericans".
Bert

The map shows the per capita infection rates by country. The U.S. and a handful of other countries are in the highest category. It could not be less misleading. The United States is doing an abysmal job of containing the spread of this pandemic. A classist tool to attack some party? Is that supposed to be a joke? America has some of the best doctors, scientists and research facilities in the world. It has specific government experts tasked with planning for epidemics. America is seen as having a global leadership role. The Trump administration was handed a playbook of how to deal with a pandemic, and there was an advisory panel to coordinate the national response. He disbanded the panel, ignored the playbook, rebuffed the world renowned head of America's National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, Dr. Fauci. Trump admitted to Bob Woodward that he purposely downplayed the virus in the early days, despite having been informed of how serious it was.

After Trump's humiliatingly idiotic musings to an audience of frightened millions about using light and disinfectant internally, he simply washed his hands of the entire coronavirus file. Last month it was reported that he hadn't attended a virus task force meeting in five months. Try to get this - the leader of the country the world looks to for global leadership hasn't only consistently bungled the handling of the pandemic, he has actively encouraged behaviour that makes the situation worse. America should be leading the world effort to combat this pandemic. Instead, it has completely failed to contain it. Only four or five of the world's countries have done worse. Over 3,000 Americans died of covid-19 yesterday. Over 200,000 were infected. Those numbers are still rising precipitously, day after day. And in the face of all that, you say it's no one's fault?
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As an absolutely bare minimum, he should be reinforcing the health message of his own administration day in, day out. Each day SOMEONE would listen, even if it's only a handful, it's a win as that's one less cluster of people who are openly susceptible to the virus, so the situation is better.

Found out an hour ago my mate and his wife have it. She's a teacher and she picked it up in school and gave it to him. They both wear masks, but it happens. The point is they did all they could to avoid getting it and now they have it they are staying away from people. He has been ill with it and I wouldn't be surprised if he gets hospitalised. Fingers crossed he will be OK.
Contrast that with non mask wearers who say it's some sort of attack on their civil liberties. It's no different to being asked to wear a seat belt when a plane is taking off. It's for your safety and that of the group you are in.
The non masker may have it and if asymptotic could be merrily spreading to everyone they meet. Masks aren't the be all and end all but they help minimise the risk. Not wearing a mask is an attack on society. Wear it to give the health care professionals one less thing to worry about.
You have a fifth of the Worlds cases and a fifth of the Worlds deaths, roughly. That's why I have posted a lot about the daily deaths and infection rates in the states. You are where the main problem is and until we are all safe no one is safe.
How strange are the ways of the gods ...........and how cruel.

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five_red
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Mr. X wrote:
3 years ago
That map is extremely misleading. For example, in the US, the actual hot spots may only be in a few locations and not universally spread.
That's actually the case for every country. There isn't likely to be anywhere in the world where cases are geographically evenly spread; and anyway the purpose of the diagram isn't to show geographic distribution inside each country, it is to compare country to country - - the same data could just as easily have been presented as a table. The heat map is just a convenient way to visualise the table data.

Something is not matching between your map and this map. And this map is the official CDC map.

Right, but your map describes itself as a 'tracker', which would suggest it shows current or recent information only. That would explain why Italy is shown as having comparatively few cases (when it got hit very hard early on.) I've no idea what the source of the original map was, but if it showed total historic data then we'd expect it to be different.

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Bert wrote:
3 years ago
Grin! My post was in response to Dazzle1 including The Who in his list of the covid blameworthy.
He also blamed "Bill Pelosi and the Dems", who I seem to recall were a little known 60s Skiffle group. 🤔😊

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This article provides perspective on what's happening in a particular community in South Dakota, USA.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2 ... rc404=true

Unfortunately, it leaves some (to me) obvious questions unanswered, like if community behavior changed at all over time, if anybody was even talking about measures other than mask-wearing, if people against masks had any response to the nurses and doctors pleading for relief...
...if the infected had reached/exceeded 1 in 100 persons, or if the mortality had reached/exceeded 1 in 1000 persons...
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Bert wrote:
3 years ago
Grin! My post was in response to Dazzle1 including The Who in his list of the covid blameworthy.
Yes I blame the WHO

You know the paid for U.N collobarators with China the Hunter Biden's of Africa.
Damselbinder

Dazzle1 wrote:
3 years ago
Bert wrote:
3 years ago
Grin! My post was in response to Dazzle1 including The Who in his list of the covid blameworthy.
Yes I blame the WHO

You know the paid for U.N collobarators with China the Hunter Biden's of Africa.
It's like the conspiracy-theorist equivalent of a fugue state.
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argento
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The problems are unfortunately worse in the country where I currently reside, Argentina. Unfortunately the president of my country forced us to make the longest quarantine in the world, with the excuse of saying that health comes first, but that excessive quarantine did not preserve health, as our mortality rate is in seventh place. It was more than 200 days of total closure and then partial closure destroying trade.
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Dazzle1
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Damselbinder wrote:
3 years ago
Dazzle1 wrote:
3 years ago
Bert wrote:
3 years ago
Grin! My post was in response to Dazzle1 including The Who in his list of the covid blameworthy.
Yes I blame the WHO

You know the paid for U.N collobarators with China the Hunter Biden's of Africa.
It's like the conspiracy-theorist equivalent of a fugue state.
You really are ignorant like most Biden supporters
Damselbinder

You're right. I am ignorant. Clearly I need to access some kind of higher consciousness, divorcing myself from mundane things like "logic", "cogent argument" and "using apostrophes correctly", raising my mind to an advanced state where I can acquire the gnosis that you have gained.
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tallyho
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33 dead in Wales yesterday but with a pop of 3 million that's comparable to the near 3000 dead stateside. We are seeing a hit after people went berserk when we came out of a 3 week lock down at the start of November
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BTW, there's an interesting documentary on various streaming services, "Totally Under Control - Trump and Covid-19" which looks at the failings of the Obama administration, the CDC, the FDA, and the Trump administration, regarding the current pandemic. At two hours long, it coverts in some detail the first four months of the response in America compared to South Korea. (If you have access to the BBC's iPlayer service you can watch for free.)

For those too lazy to sit through the full two hours, here's just a few of the highlights:
Spoiler
  • After being criticised for his slow response to previous outbreaks, Obama set up a specific group to plan ahead for any future pandemics. However, despite producing a playbook and running role playing exercises to assess weaknesses, his administration failed to actually spend money on keeping up the necessary medical stockpiles.
  • The CDC initially acted quite quickly to fast-track a testing kit into the field in February, but then got tied up in its own red tape for weeks when a simple fix was needed to address a problem with the test. During these weeks the pandemic started to take hold in the US. The Trump administration was largely disinterested in any outbreak, and didn't intervene to cut through the red tape.
  • Once it was apparent an outbreak in the US was unavoidable, the Trump administration tried to address the problem using only free market forces, so appointed mostly business people and political supporters into key leadership posts rather than qualified experts. The free market approach multiplied the cost of medical supplies as States attempted to outbid each other to get key equipment and supplies, making certain companies tasked with running these schemes very rich. Meanwhile the appointed task force leaders sided with businesses over their own medical advisers when it came to lockdown measures.
  • Meanwhile... South Korea introduced widespread testng, went into immediate overdrive of PPE manufacturing, and introduced numerous public safety measures in February. Despite a sharp peak in cases fueled by a specific huge religious gathering, they stuck to a plan of testing and tracing, did not go into a lockdown, but did have to temporarily ban Karaoke.
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Dazzle1 wrote:
3 years ago

Who stopped the Covid relief bill Pelosi and the Dems.
:sick: Moscow Mitch has stopped any covid relief bill since Dem's passed Heroe's act and Heroe's act v2. :sick: Moscow Grimreaper for the longest time, insisted on protecting super rich from covid lawsuits, that's his obstacle and objection that's holding up relief.

Rep. Katie Porter tore into :sick: Mitch McConnell for holding up the $908 billion COVID-19 stimulus bill over corporate protections, saying they enable 'the worst examples of disregard for human life'

superspreaders were the protesting thugs of BLM and Antifa
Superspreaders were :elephant: Trump :mbounce: Rallies, other large gatherings supporting :elephant: Trump, all the :mbounce: people who believed :elephant: Trump's BS that the virus would just disappear, go away, down playing it the entire time, even when he got it.

Plus all the people not taking precautions cause of Fox news and many other sources of misinformation. Like Florida Governor, South Dakota Governor, too many to list.

How :yesmaster: Kristi Noem turned her state's failing coronavirus strategy into a national platform
If Obama had been President during this death would be over 5 million and he would have not had the courage to fast track the process of the vaccines
Pulling imagined numbers out of your tight ass! How'd you find such a large number?!

No, If Obama was President during covid, we would have 100,000 plus less deaths. He'd have his pandemic task force already in place, you know, the one :elephant: Trump dismantled. :elephant: Trump didn't fast track anything, the pharmaceutical companies did that, with mRNA tech, and Obama would have talked to them, taken in the info, and said yes, let's do this

Virus deniers who bow and serve :elephant: Trump, that's why we have so many deaths. :elephant: Trump's main man :clown: Scott Atlas saying it's fine to get the virus, that's what we want! Fuckin' looney-toons, really bad move bringing that clown on board.

The death are China, The Who and Nancy Pelosi's fault
The deaths are :elephant: Trump, :clown: Scott Atlas, all the :mbounce: dumbass people who believe anything :elephant: Trump says like virus is a hoax, it'll go away like a miracle. :sick: Moscow Mitch is totally at fault blocking relief bill, and is responsible for any deaths, like suicides, this delay probably has caused.

She even has been quoted saying she'll take less now that Biden is President
Biden will be president Jan 20. In the meantime, Dems are more comfortable doing a lesser amount relief bill now, cause when Biden is president, well, even you should be able figure it out. Or maybe not.
Stop blaming Trump for China's war crime
:elephant: Trump is totally to blame for :elephant: Trump's domestic war crime caused by his epic failed leadership in dealing with the virus.

p.s. :elephant: Trump loves China



You've been totally destroyed. Take your feebleness and go home. You're welcome!
:ss:
the Scribbler

:christmastree:
If U C Xmas tree on TV show
it's Xmas Activism! :christmas:

:lynda1:
If U C attractive brunette in a movie

it's Dark Haired Women Activism!

Be very careful!
Don't B indoctrinated!
Cover your eyes! & ears!
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tallyho
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Are you getting commission for emoji use Scribbler? 🤨 🤣

Just seen US mask wearing rate is at 72%
Let's hope that keeps rising. If it rises a bit more they reckon it will save 50-60,000 by April. (The existing forecast is for half a million dead by April 2021)
Please wear a mask
How strange are the ways of the gods ...........and how cruel.

I am here to help one and all enjoy this site, so if you have any questions or feel you are being trolled please contact me (Hit the 'CONTACT' little speech bubble below my Avatar).
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theScribbler wrote:
3 years ago
Dazzle1 wrote:
3 years ago

Who stopped the Covid relief bill Pelosi and the Dems.
:sick: Moscow Mitch has stopped any covid relief bill since Dem's passed Heroe's act and Heroe's act v2. :sick: Moscow Grimreaper for the longest time, insisted on protecting super rich from covid lawsuits, that's his obstacle and objection that's holding up relief.

Rep. Katie Porter tore into :sick: Mitch McConnell for holding up the $908 billion COVID-19 stimulus bill over corporate protections, saying they enable 'the worst examples of disregard for human life'

superspreaders were the protesting thugs of BLM and Antifa
Superspreaders were :elephant: Trump :mbounce: Rallies, other large gatherings supporting :elephant: Trump, all the :mbounce: people who believed :elephant: Trump's BS that the virus would just disappear, go away, down playing it the entire time, even when he got it.

Plus all the people not taking precautions cause of Fox news and many other sources of misinformation. Like Florida Governor, South Dakota Governor, too many to list.

How :yesmaster: Kristi Noem turned her state's failing coronavirus strategy into a national platform
If Obama had been President during this death would be over 5 million and he would have not had the courage to fast track the process of the vaccines
Pulling imagined numbers out of your tight ass! How'd you find such a large number?!

No, If Obama was President during covid, we would have 100,000 plus less deaths. He'd have his pandemic task force already in place, you know, the one :elephant: Trump dismantled. :elephant: Trump didn't fast track anything, the pharmaceutical companies did that, with mRNA tech, and Obama would have talked to them, taken in the info, and said yes, let's do this

Virus deniers who bow and serve :elephant: Trump, that's why we have so many deaths. :elephant: Trump's main man :clown: Scott Atlas saying it's fine to get the virus, that's what we want! Fuckin' looney-toons, really bad move bringing that clown on board.

The death are China, The Who and Nancy Pelosi's fault
The deaths are :elephant: Trump, :clown: Scott Atlas, all the :mbounce: dumbass people who believe anything :elephant: Trump says like virus is a hoax, it'll go away like a miracle. :sick: Moscow Mitch is totally at fault blocking relief bill, and is responsible for any deaths, like suicides, this delay probably has caused.

She even has been quoted saying she'll take less now that Biden is President
Biden will be president Jan 20. In the meantime, Dems are more comfortable doing a lesser amount relief bill now, cause when Biden is president, well, even you should be able figure it out. Or maybe not.
Stop blaming Trump for China's war crime
:elephant: Trump is totally to blame for :elephant: Trump's domestic war crime caused by his epic failed leadership in dealing with the virus.

p.s. :elephant: Trump loves China



You've been totally destroyed. Take your feebleness and go home. You're welcome!
:ss:
bostonherald.com

biogen conference a super spreader. The virus can determine politics

And you are so TDS addled you blame Trump for a China developed virus.
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