One Member's Politics Bullshit Agenda Propaganda

[theScribbler]

Once again, Dazzle1 throws a bullshit jab in the Wonder Woman 1984 thread, so I create another branching off thread so as not to muck it up with his bullshit...

Just look at who was at the DNC convention several terrorist supporters

There were not any terrorist supporters at the convention.

Now it's your turn, Dazzle1: Feel free to back your bullshit up with some details about your bullshit, and then we can discuss it...


Edit: spelling fix!

[Damselbinder]

I've been grappling with Dazzle extensively in other threads, so y'all know I'm no political ally of his. While I agree that bringing that kind of politics into a thread about Wonder Woman was maybe inappropriate, the tone of this thread is I think unwarrantedly attacking. Like, I thought we were strictly supposed to avoid making it personal.

[theScribbler]

Would it be better if I didn't describe his statement as 'bullshit?'

[Mr. X]

C'mon. Plenty of people talking smack here. I've seen comments here labeling whole swaths of people as racist or white supremacists. Claims of vast russian conspiracies. The corona virus thread has been hijacked by posts about some silly russia gate nonsense. Makes the Birthers look sane. Seems OK to label 43% of the population as racist for example.

So cool it. Plenty of absurd claims and snippy comments going around. If people don't like comments like the one above then maybe lay off the mean and unsubstantiated "racist" and "white supremacist" claims.

[theScribbler]

Sure. Lots of smack talk around. Just don't want to see it in the WW 1984 thread, or more specifically: don't want it to take root there and a longer off-topic argument build and muck up that innocent non-political agenda thread. It's happened before.

So I made this Phantom Zone thread so the argument muck can go here, and leave the WW 1984 thread on topic and free of politics (especially the really stupid kind).

[Dazzle1]

Sure. Lots of smack talk around. Just don't want to see it in the WW 1984 thread, or more specifically: don't want it to take root there and a longer off-topic argument build and muck up that innocent non-political agenda thread. It's happened before.

So I made this Phantom Zone thread so the argument muck can go here, and leave the WW 1984 thread on topic and free of politics (especially the really stupid kind).

You are cancel culture advocate, you only want your political views (which are wrong) allowed

This isn't Wikipedia where you have a veto

[theScribbler]

You are cancel culture advocate, you only want your political views (which are wrong) allowed

This isn't Wikipedia where you have a veto

Totally the opposite. This phantom zone thread is here for you to spew your nonsense. Have a it!

[theScribbler]

Bert Scrbiller

The Squad, Linda Sansour are terrorist supporters

I guess there's no hope for your spelling, but anyway...

The Squad are not terrorist supporters.
Linda Sarsour is not a terrorist supporter.

But I think I understand you better now. You're Anti-Arabism:

Anti-Arabism, Anti-Arab sentiment or Arabophobia includes opposition to, dislike, fear or hatred of, or advocacy of genocide of, Arab people.

So question is. Do you just hate on Arabs, or do you also terrorize them as a terrorist in actual practice?

[Dazzle1]

Bert Scrbiller

The Squad, Linda Sansour are terrorist supporters

I guess there's no hope for your spelling, but anyway...

The Squad are not terrorist supporters.
Linda Sarsour is not a terrorist supporter.

But I think I understand you better now. You're Anti-Arabism:

Anti-Arabism, Anti-Arab sentiment or Arabophobia includes opposition to, dislike, fear or hatred of, or advocacy of genocide of, Arab people.

So question is. Do you just hate on Arabs, or do you also terrorize them as a terrorist in actual practice?

Another personal attack.

Both the Squad and Linda Sansour support BDS which is part of the Islamic terrorist movement and they all support attacks on Israel.

No I am not anti Arab, I am pro Israel. There is a difference. Arabs who can get beyond their anti-Semetism are fine. No problem with Hirisi Ali or the Arab Americans I work with.

Why do you excuse their obvious Nazi like beliefs?

[Mr. X]

Sure. Lots of smack talk around. Just don't want to see it in the WW 1984 thread, or more specifically: don't want it to take root there and a longer off-topic argument build and muck up that innocent non-political agenda thread. It's happened before.

Good point. Yes keep the WW 84 thread about the movie.

[Femina]

Wikipedia has a VETO!!!!!? :O

Seriously though... feeling some deja vu in regards to this topic. Didn't we lock this thread?

[theScribbler]

Wikipedia has a VETO!!!!!? :O

Seriously though... feeling some deja vu in regards to this topic. Didn't we lock this thread?

Different thread. Similar tho. In Phantom Zone. Same purpose.

[theScribbler]

Bert Scrbiller

The Squad, Linda Sansour are terrorist supporters

I guess there's no hope for your spelling, but anyway...

The Squad are not terrorist supporters.
Linda Sarsour is not a terrorist supporter.

But I think I understand you better now. You're Anti-Arabism:

Anti-Arabism, Anti-Arab sentiment or Arabophobia includes opposition to, dislike, fear or hatred of, or advocacy of genocide of, Arab people.

So question is. Do you just hate on Arabs, or do you also terrorize them as a terrorist in actual practice?

Another personal attack.

Both the Squad and Linda Sansour support BDS which is part of the Islamic terrorist movement and they all support attacks on Israel.

No I am not anti Arab, I am pro Israel. There is a difference. Arabs who can get beyond their anti-Semetism are fine. No problem with Hirisi Ali or the Arab Americans I work with.

Why do you excuse their obvious Nazi like beliefs?

Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions is not a terrorist movement, is not part of a terrorist movement.

The Squad and Sansour do not support violent attacks on Israel. They support 'good trouble' type efforts.

There are no obvious Nazi like beliefs to excuse, as they have no Nazi like beliefs.

People have agendas sure. Activists seek to fix wrongs as they perceive them. But you don't attack them as the real women they are, your agenda is to make strawwomen out of them and try to convince others that your strawwomen are who they really are. Nothing could be further from the truth. Your strawwomen creating is in bad faith. Your attacks on them is in bad faith. Your attacks are not 'pro Israel,' your attacks are motivated by hate. Maybe you're not fully anti Arab, but seems a distinction without much of a difference.

[Mr. X]

Regardless if Sasour does or does not support some terrorist group why would any progressive with principles support someone who actively supports an ultra conservative religious ideology that has no progressive stances, is actively anti-lgbt, is anti-diversity for the most part and is not willing to come into the 21st century? And why would one of the left's most prominent people be this woman? I don't see the left embracing some ultra conservative christian woman who promotes no-gays, no sex before marriage, women barefoot and pregnant etc.

Israel by far gets most of the progressive green check marks. Islam does not. On principle Israel should be supported and an ultra religious conservative ideology that does not respect women's rights or LGBT rights should fade quickly into history.

The left's stance is not clear, its confusing and it does not seem based on principles. On principle most progressives SHOULD be anti-islam. Can you name me ONE green progressive check mark Islam has?

I have a saying. What do you call a progressive who actually practices progressivism? An ex-progressive. This kind of paradox is exactly why I walked away from being a progressive in the 90s. There's nothing principled here.

[Dazzle1]

Scribler

BDS was started by the terrorist Omar Barghouti.

Noted lawyer and Israeli expert has declared BDS as part of the terrorist movement. It targets Jews on the false narrative of aparthied.

There is no BDS movement against any other country.

[Damselbinder]

Omar Barghouti has said some pretty objectionable things, but that doesn't make him a terrorist.

Which lawyer? What expert? Declared with what authority?

Here's an article showing a popular Indian movement towards boycotting Chinese products: https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cit ... 888903.cms

[MightyHypnotic]

@theScribbler and @Dazzle1
Congratulations. You have worn me down to the point where I don't want to see posts from either one of you on this forum anymore.
It's NONSTOP with you two. On every topic.
I really wish you two were this passionate about the superheroine genre as you are with politics. I am thinking this might not be the forum for you.

You guys need to block each other already.
I don't like to ban people. It's no power trip for me. I do this forum to promote a fun agenda.

[MightyHypnotic]

Either figure it out or leave.

[theScribbler]

"The Phantom Zone
Where derailed topics go to ....live?"

I thought the Phantom Zone sub-forum was specifically for this kind of stuff? Is it or isn't it? If not, what's the Phantom Zone for?

[Dazzle1]

I'll stop

See if he will

[TIEnTEEZ]

Why is anyone even discussing politics on this forum?
It doesn't belong here. That kind of toxicity is what facebook is for. :-p

[TIEnTEEZ]

I'll stop

See if he will

This response has me picturing a child in the back seat of a car with his arms crossed pouting. :-P

[Femina]

Why is anyone even discussing politics on this forum?
It doesn't belong here. That kind of toxicity is what facebook is for. :-p

Politics are intrinsic to human communication is the issue, and not at all intrinsically toxic. There really is no art without politics or some other mode of belief. There is no opinion or LOVE without a perspective or stance. Even in our depictions of SHiP there's a likelihood that your own opinions and beliefs have permeated your work or your interpretation of another work in some way, so saying 'we shouldn't talk about politics' somewhere is sort of like saying 'we shouldn't communicate at all.' and a forum can only exist with communication.

... That said.

There IS a point where it becomes a problem (or toxic as you say)... and I can't help but feel like creating a topic thread at another person's expense IS that point. Phantom Zone or otherwise (Lord knows I'm not 'one members' biggest fan) Talk about the industry, remark on the politics if they crop up organically... (or in the few topics dotting around that are clearly specifically ABOUT the politics and/or current state of living) but for crying out loud...

This is a topic thread with the sole intention to ROAST a specific individual. There's nothing constructive to be gleaned from it, no hope of changing a persons mind by nailing a picture of them on the telephone pole to point and laugh and spit.

This is bad form.

[theScribbler]

This is a topic thread with the sole intention to ROAST a specific individual.

I'll go along with this. I suppose I should've titled it more generally. Like 'Branching out thread from Wonder Woman 1984 thread for politics arguing.' Not sure that would fit as a title.

There's nothing constructive to be gleaned from it, no hope of changing a persons mind

I agree with the no changing mind part. I disagree that trying to move political stuff and potentially long arguing about politics out of the Wonder Woman 1984 thread is not constructive. To me, that part is constructive.

by nailing a picture of them on the telephone pole to point and laugh and spit.

I disagree entirely with this analogy. Way over the top. But no worries. I'll revert to lurking for the most part from now on. I think that's for the best. I do have an WW art piece I was working on that I wanna post, so maybe a post every 2 months or so? I think that should not cause much trouble.

[TIEnTEEZ]

Why is anyone even discussing politics on this forum?
It doesn't belong here. That kind of toxicity is what facebook is for. :-p

Politics are intrinsic to human communication is the issue, and not at all intrinsically toxic. There really is no art without politics or some other mode of belief. There is no opinion or LOVE without a perspective or stance. Even in our depictions of SHiP there's a likelihood that your own opinions and beliefs have permeated your work or your interpretation of another work in some way, so saying 'we shouldn't talk about politics' somewhere is sort of like saying 'we shouldn't communicate at all.' and a forum can only exist with communication.

... That said.

There IS a point where it becomes a problem (or toxic as you say)... and I can't help but feel like creating a topic thread at another person's expense IS that point. Phantom Zone or otherwise (Lord knows I'm not 'one members' biggest fan) Talk about the industry, remark on the politics if they crop up organically... (or in the few topics dotting around that are clearly specifically ABOUT the politics and/or current state of living) but for crying out loud...

This is a topic thread with the sole intention to ROAST a specific individual. There's nothing constructive to be gleaned from it, no hope of changing a persons mind by nailing a picture of them on the telephone pole to point and laugh and spit.

This is bad form.

My point is... THIS is not the forum for politics.
facebook is a toxic cesspool and is a terrible forum for political discusion. I've been arguing politics on facebook for years and it absolutely NEVER results in anything good or constructive.

The internet, in general, is poison for politics and I'm convinced that social media will ultimately turn out to be the explanation for the Fermi paradox.

And... just reiterate one more time. THIS IS NOT A POLITICS FORUM. Some of us even come here to get away from that crap.

[tallyho]

Sorry femina I was trying to quote you using my phone and I screwed up and overwrote your post

[Femina]

S'okay. I was mostly just expressing how the Fermi Paradox isn't a paradox, and how espousing that it is... is politics...

Moral of the post, was still that politics can't be expunged from discourse or else there's just no communication at all... even in something as simple as the art of the SHiP.

Long story short on the Fermi Paradox. It's NOT unreasonable that we haven't been contacted or visited by aliens yet by any stretch, therefore its not a paradox. It'd be far more paradoxical if we HAD been contacted already... but that still wouldn't be a paradox either.

[batgirl1969]

With the current state of affairs in the U.S. is it even acceptable to post, share or create hardcore interracial black on white videos, stories or artwork? I am a HUGE fan of Jim Persons work but the language in the comics is pretty rough and I wonder if it is in poor taste to still do so?? As many know...Interracial is my most hardcore fantasy and I LOVE seeing blondes in these scenarios even better when it is Blonde superheroines...like Sue Storm, Supergirl, Stargirl, Dagger from cloak and dagger and now most recently Emma Frost, her stepford cuckoos and Magik!!!

[MightyHypnotic]

I am leaning towards a no politics rule. I know this is difficult in an election year because people want to discuss it, but in the end, we are a superheroines community and any political discussion is just going to break down and get ugly.
As others have pointed out we have Facebook for that.

[TIEnTEEZ]

I am leaning towards a no politics rule. I know this is difficult in an election year because people want to discuss it, but in the end, we are a superheroines community and any political discussion is just going to break down and get ugly.
As others have pointed out we have Facebook for that.

Sure, people want to discuss it. But is it appropriate for them to discuss it HERE?
i say no. I don't need political discussions here. I get quite enough of this elsewhere, including facebook, which is also a TERRIBLE place for them, BTW, because it's SO toxic.

[ivandobsky]

If someone wants a forum where nuanced discussion never degrades into name calling, they can just visit twitter.com (joke)

[Mr. X]

I am leaning towards a no politics rule. I know this is difficult in an election year because people want to discuss it, but in the end, we are a superheroines community and any political discussion is just going to break down and get ugly.
As others have pointed out we have Facebook for that.

Probably better to not have politics till after the election. Things are going to get pretty tense.

[theScribbler]

Great idea. No politics rule. I'm for that.


Me too.


Me three.

[Femina]

Pretty sure we had this exact thing happen right around election time four years ago and it was about us successful then as I imagine the prohibition was.

[bushwackerbob]

That might be for the best, I just wonder how tightly a ban like that might be enforced, that what some people might perceive a post to be political in nature to one group, to others may seem non political and harmless. If that is the way you are going to go, then I think you need to put strict parameters in place about what people, candidates, or issues are off limits, and then you have topics that seem non political and then all of a sudden some stinker comes in to spoil the fun and then we are off to the races. I think a no politics rule is a good idea but I think the forum bigwigs are going to have to actively enforce that ban if they are really serious about that idea, not this sort of polite suggestion handed down from Mount Olympus and hope everybody goes along with it.

[ivandobsky]

about us successful then as I imagine the prohibition was.

If used as a parallel to this situation, prohibition was somewhat successful. It didn't stop drinking entirely, but it may have reduced instances of people getting wasted in public, in a way that might have been annoying to others.

[Mr. X]

That might be for the best, I just wonder how tightly a ban like that might be enforced, that what some people might perceive a post to be political in nature to one group, to others may seem non political and harmless. If that is the way you are going to go, then I think you need to put strict parameters in place about what people, candidates, or issues are off limits, and then you have topics that seem non political and then all of a sudden some stinker comes in to spoil the fun and then we are off to the races. I think a no politics rule is a good idea but I think the forum bigwigs are going to have to actively enforce that ban if they are really serious about that idea, not this sort of polite suggestion handed down from Mount Olympus and hope everybody goes along with it.

The thing I see that starts these fights is someone adding in a quip or smart remark like some anti-Trump or anti-antifa comment which then gets a response and so forth. So people need to stop doing that. Its the old saying of "Two wrongs don't make a right - just as long as mine is the first wrong".