Judging One's Superheroine Fetish

[bushwackerbob]

Two of the reasons that attracted me to this forum were its anonymity and that there were people just like me who had this weird superheroine fetish. I think that society as a whole and my loved ones in particular would not be accepting of this unique fetish, that my superheroine fetish fantasies would mean that I condoned such horrible things in the real world. That is my fear. So I come here and communicate and interact with the good people on this forum in order to share my thoughts and feelings with others. This forum is a community of like minded people who share a comparably unique fetish, and yes, we disagree at times over the degree of our fetish, but that is because the superheroine fetish means different things to different people, that the superheroine fetish is a rainbow and we take from it what we like and leave what we do not. One of the reasons I come here ( and I suspect I am not alone) is that this place is somewhere that I can enjoy my fetish and not be judged and be left alone by the morality police. So Imagine my chagrin when someone in this community communicates a dislike for a SHP rape video, and further claims to have a "code of ethics", the implication being that those who do enjoy the video lack that code of ethics indicates a judgment on the character of people that he has no way of knowing is true. He just indicted a whole group of people without knowing who they are, just what they enjoy. This is what I come here to avoid. The video in question was a little too brutal for me as well, I just choose not to insult anyone's character and sit in judgment of someone else's fetish because in someone else's eyes in the real world, maybe someday I will be the one who's ethics are called into question. A well developed fantasy fetish does not define who we are in the real world.

[GWalb]

WELL SAID!

[Bert]

" I think that society as a whole and my loved ones in particular would not be accepting of this unique fetish, that my superheroine fetish fantasies would mean that I condoned such horrible things in the real world."

Finding this community has been helpful to me as well. Knowing that others share this fetish does alleviate some of the guilt. I wish my sexual fetish was something more benign and less socially unacceptable, but at least I know there are a considerable number of people who are similarly afflicted. It is particularly helpful to learn that the forum has a number of female members.

Having said all that, none of us knows what's in the hearts of fellow members. Given the nature of our fetish, I struggle with the thought that there may be individuals on this board who take things beyond the world of fantasy. Does that make my participation here a tacit approval to someone who might actually take this beyond the fantasy realm?

I think we must be wary of absolving ourselves too completely from any real world leakage of these fantasies. As a group, we are turned on by acts that in real life are illegal, immoral and hugely damaging. Maintaining an unbreakable distinction between fantasy and reality is extremely important for us. Access to like-minded people on this forum is a relief - a way to take some comfort in the thought that our fantasies are shared. But that guilt that still gnaws at us, we need to acknowledge that. It maintains the separation of fiction from fact.

[GeekyPornCritic]

I am reading everyone's comments, and I think there are major misunderstanding of this fetish. There are many views and styles of SHIP. SHIP does not always include illegal acts. As many producers say "Superheroines are not real" and "Superheroines do not exist". Some SHIP content includes illegal acts such as rape and even violent murder in extreme cases.

SHIP has many fetishes within its scope. The very basic of this SHIP is sexually desiring superheroines or unnatural beings that do not exist in reality. We all share this common desire to have a sexual encounter with a superheroine. However, the sexual acts in these encounters vary from person to person. Some of our fetishes in our fetish for SHIP are accepted by society.

Love Potion and Spells

One common form of SHIP is what I like to call "Love Potion". It's my term for defeating a superheroine by seducing her with a love potion, magic spell, magic item, Pink Kryptonite, Wonder Woman's lasso, etc. That is just a common fantasy in many fetishes and media. It is very accepted by society.

Masturbation and Sex with Self from Alternate Universe

An uncommon form of SHIP is self-pleasure from a clone or being from alternate universe. For example Supergirl is unable to resist Evil Supergirl or Power Girl because they are the same person. It's like masturbation, and nobody rejects pleasure from themselves. I've seen in mention once in a story when the villianess makes the heroine confess she enjoyed making out with the other her from a different universe. I also used this idea in my Supergirl VS Evil Supergirl custom.

Natural Seduction

Sometimes the villain just comes on to the heroine and she falls for his seduction. This happens in real life with real people. We have ever been seduced or know a friend who was seduced by a hottie at a bar or work.

Love Hate

Of course we have the love hate relationships. Heroines and villains are sexually attracted to each other and consensually hook up. We've seen this with Batman & Catwoman and Spider & Black Cat.

Pheromones

SHIP often uses the fetish or ideal of pheromones affecting people sexually. Pheromones actually exist in nature, and science has discovered pheromones in animals. It is debatable if pheromones affect people in reality. None the less, it is a common theme from characters such as Poison Ivy and Steve Bell's Miss Marvelous. There is nothing wrong with fetish of having the ability to attract anyone you want. Most people fantasize of having any man or woman of their desires.

Rejected Fetishes

The aspects of rape, violence, and murder are not special in SHIP or restricted to SHIP. These three fetishes can be added into any fetish. These fetishes can be added in fetishes for cheerleaders, doctors, the guy next door if you're lady or gay, teachers, random strangers, etc. As you don't act on such horrible acts and realize fantasy from reality, then you're fine.

To conclude, I don't think society rejects Superheroine In Peril fetish. The ideal of a superheroine in general is not reason for society rejecting a superheroine. Cosplay is a popular fetish around the world. Most people would think it would be hot to fuck Supergirl. Society rejects other fetishes within many SHIP content such as rape, violence, and murder.

[bushwackerbob]

I am bushwackerbob, you are GeekyPornCritic, not our real names. Why do you think that is? Maybe in the world you live in, people think that it is cool and acceptable to fantasize in all sorts of manner about doing harm to superheroines, but my perception of the world I live in the prospect of coming out regarding this fetish would be catastrophic. We live in such a politically correct world now. Plus, the Me To movement has made the fetish even more potentially damaging if made public. Do you really think that if a politician or famous actor came out and claimed a superheroine fetish that he would be accepted? Please. He would be the laughingstock of the entire world and be subject to endless ridicule. Come on now, you know that to be true. Not to mention that feminist groups would demand he resign or lose his job or career.

[Imagineer]

GPC, I think you have a major misunderstanding of this fetish. SHIP doesn't stand for Sex With Superheroines. One of the significant dividing lines in SHIP is whether or not any sexuality is expressed.

Peril plays with the idea of consent. The spectrum of consent in SHIP content is something not often talked about directly, but I find it interesting. In some content the characters themselves are clearly engaged in fully consensual roleplay (indeed, in some content the characters aren't superheroines at all, and the superheroine identity is merely part of the character's roleplay); in other content the lack of consent is completely immersive and played for brutal realism. Then there's the content that is built on the heroine denying but ultimately expressing physical pleasure or even a level of consent. Some variants of the fetish reject sex and demand violence, others the reverse. And of course there is the question of if/when the heroine escapes her peril, or what the consequences may be. Different people have different opinions about which variants or elements are more versus less acceptable, nevermind desirable.

I'm curious what others think of the spectrum of consent, and how important the treatment of consent is relative to other elements of their interest in the genre.

[AvaHeinz]

G'Day Mate

Well, to begin, I must say I do not really have a superhero fetish (I love watching superhero movies, or when I was younger, read comic books, but I do not have a thing on superheroes having sexual relation or any sort of sensualism or what not that you guys are talking about here)

But you don't need to have a fetish to understand there are two side of a coin here. What was normal?

Say for example, my ex boyfriend is a cop, he is a detective. He is obsessed with Murder and Rape (not that kind of obsessed but similar) he always talks about who killed what people, and he always talk about what he do, what he investigate, and if people have no idea he is a cop, they would have think he is either a rapist or a murderer.

The problem is, when we say "Fetishes" that is not automatically coined a "bad" thing. I have stuff that I like to do exactly how I wanted to do, everybody does, that is what the term "Fetishes" come from, it means any object, idea, etc., eliciting unquestioning reverence, respect, or devotion, it only mean what you guys are talking about when we group it in sexism context, it may not be good or bad on the surface. However, it would be defined, depends on how you act on your fetishes.

Of course, in a civil society, serious crime like Kidnap (I was wondering why nobody talk about this), Rape and Murder are shunned upon, it is rightfully so because those aren't norm of a society, however, putting superheroine content aside, would a person automatically should be shun if they have a fetish of Rape, Kidnap or Murder? That's quite depends on the context. If I have a fetish on Murder is to satisfied my need on knowledge as to how a crime is committed, or the psychological aspect of the perpetrator, this is perfectly normal, more than half of True Crime author or reader is having this fetish (Otherwise why would one so interest in solved murder case?). However, on the same scale, if I have a fetish of murder because I have a violent needs I need to satisfy, then I would say its time for you to see a shrink

And finally, if you think you are going to be shunned by your fetish, there is 1 simple thing you can do, that's keep your fetish to yourself, you don't owe anyone to show your own fetish, and you can rightfully keep it if you keep it private.

Thanks
Ava
The Superhero Project

[lordgriffin]

Hello All:

And Buswhackerbob, Welcome to the community

Dr. D brought this discussion to my attention because he thought I would enjoy joining it...he knows me well. Here are some points I'd like yo discuss with you and others.

My first point I'd like to take issue with (this is not to say I disagree or do not understand) Is that anyone call this a Fetish, let alone that is it weird or Horrible. That said I DO fully acknowledge Weird and Horrible tendency of Society and Social Justice Warriors to stick their BIG noses in where it doesn't belong to try and control what OTHER people think. This has been the case since the Comic book Association of America and literally every organized religion telling everyone what God does, and does not accept.

I mean really, what is "Weird" or "Horrible" about someones desire to have selfish pleasure? that is NOT a crime (ACTING on that desire ranges from Rude to a crime). I mean I would like ANYONE to tell me what is MORE normal then the search for personal pleasure without either guilt or effort on our part.

I call to your attention Exhibit #1. Darth Vader... if we apply the standards that someone who writes about a successful villain is some how sick and secretly desires to carry out those acts in Real Life...Means that George Lucas secretly desires to be an evil Sith lord who wants to take over the Universe.

Lets at least be honest...a rape fantasy is not about the act itself...is it the fantasy of control...and if violence is involved, it is no more "wrong" than Watching Football is the sanctioned release of aggression.(the fantsy is not wrong the ACT is of course)

I am (quite) old enough to remember when being Homosexual was "sick, perverted, weird and Horrible" Now I have LGTBQ and FUTA shoved down my throat, I am forced to experience "Gay Pride" parades that celebrate that "hey *I* love to take it up the ass" but if I were to sponsored a SHIP Pride parade...or a Hey I love PUSSY parade..it would be rejected and my career is at risk if I even hint that "hey I don't wanna see that"

The same people who were once oppressed...now look down their noses at me because I like a "realistic" antagonist who may actually do socially UNACCEPTABLE things such as underage sex (because being 18 is the MAGIC age)

Guess the age old proverb holds true, you can't have a club unless you exclude someone.

Bushwhakcerbob, I am in SO much agreement with your point (about the anonymity) that it jades my view here....

#1. Is the mistaken belief that to rape someone..required the antagonist to turn the victim into a bloody mess. Yes in Real life, that's how the rapist exerts control...but in a fantasy where you can mind control, corrupt or just pain restrain...it is the ACT it does not HAVE to be the violence (if you like that...write it that way)
#2. The rise of FUTA...I genuinely believe that many stories were written that way so an author can avoid being called sexist, misogynist ect.
#3. The idea that MURDER is an ok plot device but Rape...*gasp* you SICK PERVERT
#4. That Authors are SO afraid...they write a great antagonist, come up with a GREAT idea to capture her..and then find a silly way to make SURE that the heroine gets away....by either having the heroin get raped every other story only for her to get free..shrug and say "damn...well on to the next villain" or by Having the Villain go to sleep and LET the heroine get away.

yea, I think I am rambling there but the bottom line is...even main stream Authors take on pen names to maintain their anonymity... you will ALWAYS have a critic, but your not doing ANYTHING wrong or abnormal...

I hope you will write and continue to write, and reach out to me if you ever want feedback or to consult

[GeekyPornCritic]

GPC, I think you have a major misunderstanding of this fetish. SHIP doesn't stand for Sex With Superheroines. One of the significant dividing lines in SHIP is whether or not any sexuality is expressed.

Peril plays with the idea of consent. The spectrum of consent in SHIP content is something not often talked about directly, but I find it interesting. In some content the characters themselves are clearly engaged in fully consensual roleplay (indeed, in some content the characters aren't superheroines at all, and the superheroine identity is merely part of the character's roleplay); in other content the lack of consent is completely immersive and played for brutal realism. Then there's the content that is built on the heroine denying but ultimately expressing physical pleasure or even a level of consent. Some variants of the fetish reject sex and demand violence, others the reverse. And of course there is the question of if/when the heroine escapes her peril, or what the consequences may be. Different people have different opinions about which variants or elements are more versus less acceptable, nevermind desirable.

I'm curious what others think of the spectrum of consent, and how important the treatment of consent is relative to other elements of their interest in the genre.

Imagineer, I do not have any misunderstanding of this fetish. I have knowledge of this genre and the different desires from members. SHIP does not stand for sex with superheroines for YOU. The P in peril stands for any action that puts a heroine in danger or an act that a herione does in shame such as being seduced by a villain.

This genre is considered a fetish, thus sexuality is being expressed. Sexuality can also be expressed in non-traditional ways. A person with this fetish may become arouse when watching a beautiful woman fight.

Personally, I am turned on when a sexy and strong superheroine is winning a fight. One of my favorite moments in SHIP is the fight (corrected version) between Supergirl and Evil Supergirl in my custom video from Cory Chase. Watching two strong women battling was amazing.

[Imagineer]

GPC, your lack of empathy and constant pivots and overreaches are exhausting.

[Femina]

The SHiP fetish isn't conclusively about sex. At its most basic principle It's about peril. Peril at its most basic definition is essentially just danger. This is why as a sexualized fetish, it has a surprisingly reduced degree of full out nudity than many other fetishes. Peril can be sexual, physical, psychological etc... So consent in and of itself isn't inherently a question involved in SHiP unless sex is introduced into the equation, in which case if the act is consensual, there's less likely to be a degree of PERIL involved and therefore less likely to be technically classified as SHiP material to most consumers. Sexual intercourse is obviously more 'perilous' when the act is nonconsentual... but actual sex isn't even a requirement for there to be an element of sexual or sexualized peril.

Peril is as much the prospect of danger as it is actual danger. The specter of something bad happening IS peril. A superheroine in danger of being raped, defending herself and escaping unbesmirched is just as much in the spectrum of SHiP as the superheroine who fails to escape. Since that spectrum exists, it is therefore only natural that the members of the SHiP fetish fall along that spectrum and cannot be expected or assumed to be of like mind about every element within the fetish.

Dissonance is unavoidable, someone can always disagree with you, hypocritically or fairly, these are just inescapable facts of life. Best not to dwell on them TO hard... but as Bert mentioned above, discussion is always valuable to aid one in maintaining a separation between fantasy and reality. Being attacked by someone who thinks your membership in a fetish makes you disgusting despite also being a member may be uncomfortable and unfair... but it can always retain some value in bringing one to ask themselves these questions and reaffirm their own understanding of healthy boundaries.

[bushwackerbob]

I agree with you and Bert completely that discussion and questioning this fetish is a perfectly healthy and normal way of navigating one 's way through the dichotomy of having a fantasy fetish and how that relates to how one acts in the real world. The thing that I really took issue with was that a member of this forum, who has been here longer than me, a number of years, could attack someone's character based on their enjoyment of a particular SHP film. To me this sort of violates an unspoken rule in this forum not to judge others character based on their enjoyment of superheroine peril. I mean why are we here? We are here anonymously to enjoy in private absent any attack on our character what many of us feel we cannot express in public. People in glass houses should not throw stones. People come here for a shared sense of fun and wonder, not to be ostracized and their character challenged for liking a video. ( And I didn't even like the friggin video by the way) That might be how outsiders view our little community but for someone who has been a member of this site for nine years to attack a fellow traveler, well, they should know better. Shame on them.

[GeekyPornCritic]

The SHiP fetish isn't conclusively about sex. At its most basic principle It's about peril. Peril at its most basic definition is essentially just danger. This is why as a sexualized fetish, it has a surprisingly reduced degree of full out nudity than many other fetishes. Peril can be sexual, physical, psychological etc... So consent in and of itself isn't inherently a question involved in SHiP unless sex is introduced into the equation, in which case if the act is consensual, there's less likely to be a degree of PERIL involved and therefore less likely to be technically classified as SHiP material to most consumers. Sexual intercourse is obviously more 'perilous' when the act is nonconsentual... but actual sex isn't even a requirement for there to be an element of sexual or sexualized peril.

Peril is as much the prospect of danger as it is actual danger. The specter of something bad happening IS peril. A superheroine in danger of being raped, defending herself and escaping unbesmirched is just as much in the spectrum of SHiP as the superheroine who fails to escape. Since that spectrum exists, it is therefore only natural that the members of the SHiP fetish fall along that spectrum and cannot be expected or assumed to be of like mind about every element within the fetish.

Dissonance is unavoidable, someone can always disagree with you, hypocritically or fairly, these are just inescapable facts of life. Best not to dwell on them TO hard... but as Bert mentioned above, discussion is always valuable to aid one in maintaining a separation between fantasy and reality. Being attacked by someone who thinks your membership in a fetish makes you disgusting despite also being a member may be uncomfortable and unfair... but it can always retain some value in bringing one to ask themselves these questions and reaffirm their own understanding of healthy boundaries.

I have to disagree with you on this is one. Consensual sex can add different degrees of Peril for many reasons, and can sometimes be more dangerous or humiliating than nonsexual sexual intercourse.

In Dagger starring Ashley Lane, Dagger was raped by two of the three thugs. The third left because it's "going to far", but returned after his friends are done with Dagger. The third thug lied that he could help her escape, but they must have sex for his friends to not suspect any strange. Dagger agreed and shamefully enjoys herself. The truth was the third thug wanted Dagger to give consent and his friends were secretly recording Dagger foolishly consenting to sex with a criminal in order to escape. What is more humiliating? Being forced to have sex with two thugs or agreeing to have sex with thug number three? The world will see her agree to have sex and fall for his charms during sex. People would look at her as a whore, who is turned on by cosplaying and being tied up.

Some stories reveal their heroine should never consent to sex or there will be consequences. Orgasms depower or kill superheroines such as Miss Marvelous from Steven Bell or the many Valkyries from Don Ship's works. These heroines never consent to any sexual acts in the story. If they ever made the conscious decision to consent, then there could be consequences for falling for the moment.

Fuchsia Fox from Centurion's stories had an affair with a man named Thomas behind her husband's back. She was filled with mixed emotions and sometimes thought about the affair while fighting crime. Her heart torn between two men was an ongoing conflict that she created herself, and led to perils. One villain escaped while Fox was distracted by her feelings. A villain took advantage of her torn heart and tried to manipulate her to remove her power items as he created a false image of Thomas speaking to her. She foolishly revealed her secret identity to her boyfriend, and this could haunt her one day.

Primal Fetish has an older video of two superheroines breaking into a gang's hideout. One of the heroines is captured, and it appears that Wonder Woman saves her. However, this person is not Wonder Woman. This person has the power to appear to be anyone, and seduced the other heroine by pretending to be Wonder Woman. The heroine had idea she consented to have sex with a villain until the end of the video, and he ties her back up.

[Femina]

In Dagger starring Ashley Lane, Dagger was raped by two of the three thugs. The third left because it's "going to far", but returned after his friends are done with Dagger. The third thug lied that he could help her escape, but they must have sex for his friends to not suspect any strange. Dagger agreed and shamefully enjoys herself. The truth was the third thug wanted Dagger to give consent and his friends were secretly recording Dagger foolishly consenting to sex with a criminal in order to escape. What is more humiliating? Being forced to have sex with two thugs or agreeing to have sex with thug number three? The world will see her agree to have sex and fall for his charms during sex. People would look at her as a whore, who is turned on by cosplaying and being tied up.

What you are describing is just rape. 'Yes' alone isn't consent. Consent given via muddling of the cognitive process or under duress via lies and misdirection is NOT consent. Consent given to let someone rape you because it will save someone they are threatening is NOT consent, its still rape. This idea that you can be forced or tricked into giving your consent and that just as long as it got 'said outright' is one of the things a lot of rape victims have been struggling with for a long time.

Consent is really a pretty simple concept at the base of it. If someone of sound mind and reasoning WANTS to have sex with someone else of sound mind and reasoning who also WANTS to have sex, it is consent. ANYTHING ELSE is not true consent. Love potions and tricks don't make someone WANT to have sex of their own sound mind and reasoning, it makes them want to have sex at THAT PERSONS direction outside of their control. I.E. RAPE.

[GeekyPornCritic]

What you are describing is just rape. 'Yes' alone isn't consent. Consent given via muddling of the cognitive process or under duress via lies and misdirection is NOT consent. Consent given to let someone rape you because it will save someone they are threatening is NOT consent, its still rape. This idea that you can be forced or tricked into giving your consent and that just as long as it got 'said outright' is one of the things a lot of rape victims have been struggling with for a long time.

Consent is really a pretty simple concept at the base of it. If someone of sound mind and reasoning WANTS to have sex with someone else of sound mind and reasoning who also WANTS to have sex, it is consent. ANYTHING ELSE is not true consent. Love potions and tricks don't make someone WANT to have sex of their own sound mind and reasoning, it makes them want to have sex at THAT PERSONS direction outside of their control. I.E. RAPE.

I feel frustrated when members only quote pieces of a comment and ignore the reminding opinions. It seems you just ignored my remaining points about the consensual content in SHIP.

I don't fully agree with all of your points to consent. Consent is agreeing to have sex with another person. "Want" is not required when you consent to someone. A person can agree to have sex without desiring or wanting to sex with a particular person. For example, unhappy partners in relationships have sex with their partners because they want to make their partner happy. The other partner may not even ask or complain about the lack of sex.

People may have sex with someone for another motive. That motive is not always the want of sex. Gold diggers have sex with rich men because they want the man's financial security. They may not want sex, but they will play a role to maintain their financial security.

Now to Dagger, Dagger could have told the third Thug "no". She was not forced to say "yes" in exchanged to be released. He did not trick her to consent for simply consensual sex. The purpose was for recording her enjoying sex with a villain.

SHIP has created blurry lines of consent. SHIP has introduced original ideas for the genre, and these ideas do not occur in reality/nature. There are many heroines who become submissive to any man because their physiology becomes very excited when the heroine is aroused. Their bodies naturally desire and even become addicted to sex. Take a look at Don Ship's heroines. If you make them cum or arouse them in any way, they will begin desire the enemy. They won't try to escape. They will become the villains' lovers. This is a choice that the heroine has made herself.

Miss Marvelous from Steven Bell is in the same boat. Turn her buttons the right way, and she will consent to sex.

[Damselbinder]

I think it's fair to say that it's rape when consent is muddled. That's why convincing someone to have sex with you under false pretences ("Oh yeah, babystyles, I'm totally the front sing-man for Nickelback") is considered rape. If even THAT level of deceit can be considered rape, then I think "I'll release you from captivity if you have sex with me" is rape - even if it's NOT a lie. It's duress. And if it's not rape, it's as bad as rape, and I'm not sure what ELSE you'd call it.

[GeekyPornCritic]

I think it's fair to say that it's rape when consent is muddled. That's why convincing someone to have sex with you under false pretences ("Oh yeah, babystyles, I'm totally the front sing-man for Nickelback") is considered rape. If even THAT level of deceit can be considered rape, then I think "I'll release you from captivity if you have sex with me" is rape - even if it's NOT a lie. It's duress. And if it's not rape, it's as bad as rape, and I'm not sure what ELSE you'd call it.

Having sex under false pretenses does not automatically equal rape. Lying you are a musician in a band does not equal rape. Players lie to women all of the time to have sex. By your definition, then all players would be rapist. Some men lie about how much money they have. Some men lie about how many partners they've had. A lot of guys lie they are not virgins during their first time. Some women lie as well.

A friend of mines lied to her now ex-boyfriend that she loved him, and dumped him after sex just to have sex. Is that really rape?

The sad truth is some people lie in relationships for they can maintain the relationship, and sex is part of the package.

The UK now has a new law that requires transgender individuals to reveal their gender history before they part take in sex. This type of law I agree with. Partners should know if their parnters were born a different sex.

[Damselbinder]

Yeah. Not automatically. But at least sometimes. So I think we can safely say that the example you cited IS rape, because that's a horrifically extreme case of sex under false pretences.

[Femina]

What you are describing is just rape. 'Yes' alone isn't consent. Consent given via muddling of the cognitive process or under duress via lies and misdirection is NOT consent. Consent given to let someone rape you because it will save someone they are threatening is NOT consent, its still rape. This idea that you can be forced or tricked into giving your consent and that just as long as it got 'said outright' is one of the things a lot of rape victims have been struggling with for a long time.

Consent is really a pretty simple concept at the base of it. If someone of sound mind and reasoning WANTS to have sex with someone else of sound mind and reasoning who also WANTS to have sex, it is consent. ANYTHING ELSE is not true consent. Love potions and tricks don't make someone WANT to have sex of their own sound mind and reasoning, it makes them want to have sex at THAT PERSONS direction outside of their control. I.E. RAPE.

I feel frustrated when members only quote pieces of a comment and ignore the reminding opinions. It seems you just ignored my remaining points about the consensual content in SHIP.

I don't fully agree with all of your points to consent. Consent is agreeing to have sex with another person. "Want" is not required when you consent to someone. A person can agree to have sex without desiring or wanting to sex with a particular person. For example, unhappy partners in relationships have sex with their partners because they want to make their partner happy. The other partner may not even ask or complain about the lack of sex.

People may have sex with someone for another motive. That motive is not always the want of sex. Gold diggers have sex with rich men because they want the man's financial security. They may not want sex, but they will play a role to maintain their financial security.

Now to Dagger, Dagger could have told the third Thug "no". She was not forced to say "yes" in exchanged to be released. He did not trick her to consent for simply consensual sex. The purpose was for recording her enjoying sex with a villain.

SHIP has created blurry lines of consent. SHIP has introduced original ideas for the genre, and these ideas do not occur in reality/nature. There are many heroines who become submissive to any man because their physiology becomes very excited when the heroine is aroused. Their bodies naturally desire and even become addicted to sex. Take a look at Don Ship's heroines. If you make them cum or arouse them in any way, they will begin desire the enemy. They won't try to escape. They will become the villains' lovers. This is a choice that the heroine has made herself.

Miss Marvelous from Steven Bell is in the same boat. Turn her buttons the right way, and she will consent to sex.

Consent if we are talking about a verbal agreement, I suppose we can to some degree qualify as a simple designation of stating 'yes' or 'no' but consent where the LAW and MORALE PRINCIPLE of the term as it is used in the area of sexual conduct isn't as simple as stating 'yes'. A Superheroine forced under duress to say yes is still being forced. 'Fuck me and I'll let you go' when the alternative is remaining in captivity and the ultimate threat of WORSE (like death) is not defensible consent. It wouldn't hold up in a court of law (if proven), it'd be considered rape. Psychologically holding someone down to force sex is an equal idea to physically holding someone down to force sex.

Consent in a SHiP story isn't really peril, I suppose somewhere in there, it might be possible to drum up situations where it is, but it'd be more difficult and require some serious set up. You are right to imply that a villain forcing a heroine to say yes to sex would qualify as peril, you are WRONG in thinking that this is the same thing as consent. Consent means no one is being FORCED to do this, it means they both had a choice and that they chose to have sex. Convincing someone to have sex by withholding something that belongs to them that they NEED more (like their freedom for instance) is not a choice at all, so its rape.

I think it's fair to say that it's rape when consent is muddled. That's why convincing someone to have sex with you under false pretences ("Oh yeah, babystyles, I'm totally the front sing-man for Nickelback") is considered rape. If even THAT level of deceit can be considered rape, then I think "I'll release you from captivity if you have sex with me" is rape - even if it's NOT a lie. It's duress. And if it's not rape, it's as bad as rape, and I'm not sure what ELSE you'd call it.

Having sex under false pretenses does not automatically equal rape. Lying you are a musician in a band does not equal rape. Players lie to women all of the time to have sex. By your definition, then all players would be rapist. Some men lie about how much money they have. Some men lie about how many partners they've had. A lot of guys lie they are not virgins during their first time. Some women lie as well.

A friend of mines lied to her now ex-boyfriend that she loved him, and dumped him after sex just to have sex. Is that really rape?

The sad truth is some people lie in relationships for they can maintain the relationship, and sex is part of the package.

The UK now has a new law that requires transgender individuals to reveal their gender history before they part take in sex. This type of law I agree with. Partners should know if their parnters were born a different sex.

I'm excising gender from the equation on purpose. Women can and do rape men as well. Your example of somebody lying about their love of someone in order to cajole sex is a very different example from the superheroine being rail roaded into having sex in a vague hope that it means she'll be let free or that it will save somebodies life. LIES, cruel as they are, are a mutual stakes game. If someone lies to you, you have to take some ownership in BELIEVING the lie, this is not in any way shape or form to say that the liar is therefore innocent, but nine times out of ten you probably knew somewhere deep down that the person lied to you for sex. I PERSONALLY still qualify this as rape, but its muddy water where legality is concerned (You'd also need some kind of telepathic powers to know for sure that the woman didn't at least believe she loved him when she said it.. because while dumping someone tends to indicate you've fallen out of love, it doesn't prove you never DID love). But again the issue of a heroine being forced to have sex under psychological duress is a much less muddy principle.

[GeekyPornCritic]

What you are describing is just rape. 'Yes' alone isn't consent. Consent given via muddling of the cognitive process or under duress via lies and misdirection is NOT consent. Consent given to let someone rape you because it will save someone they are threatening is NOT consent, its still rape. This idea that you can be forced or tricked into giving your consent and that just as long as it got 'said outright' is one of the things a lot of rape victims have been struggling with for a long time.

Consent is really a pretty simple concept at the base of it. If someone of sound mind and reasoning WANTS to have sex with someone else of sound mind and reasoning who also WANTS to have sex, it is consent. ANYTHING ELSE is not true consent. Love potions and tricks don't make someone WANT to have sex of their own sound mind and reasoning, it makes them want to have sex at THAT PERSONS direction outside of their control. I.E. RAPE.

I feel frustrated when members only quote pieces of a comment and ignore the reminding opinions. It seems you just ignored my remaining points about the consensual content in SHIP.

I don't fully agree with all of your points to consent. Consent is agreeing to have sex with another person. "Want" is not required when you consent to someone. A person can agree to have sex without desiring or wanting to sex with a particular person. For example, unhappy partners in relationships have sex with their partners because they want to make their partner happy. The other partner may not even ask or complain about the lack of sex.

People may have sex with someone for another motive. That motive is not always the want of sex. Gold diggers have sex with rich men because they want the man's financial security. They may not want sex, but they will play a role to maintain their financial security.

Now to Dagger, Dagger could have told the third Thug "no". She was not forced to say "yes" in exchanged to be released. He did not trick her to consent for simply consensual sex. The purpose was for recording her enjoying sex with a villain.

SHIP has created blurry lines of consent. SHIP has introduced original ideas for the genre, and these ideas do not occur in reality/nature. There are many heroines who become submissive to any man because their physiology becomes very excited when the heroine is aroused. Their bodies naturally desire and even become addicted to sex. Take a look at Don Ship's heroines. If you make them cum or arouse them in any way, they will begin desire the enemy. They won't try to escape. They will become the villains' lovers. This is a choice that the heroine has made herself.

Miss Marvelous from Steven Bell is in the same boat. Turn her buttons the right way, and she will consent to sex.

Consent if we are talking about a verbal agreement, I suppose we can to some degree qualify as a simple designation of stating 'yes' or 'no' but consent where the LAW and MORALE PRINCIPLE of the term as it is used in the area of sexual conduct isn't as simple as stating 'yes'. A Superheroine forced under duress to say yes is still being forced. 'Fuck me and I'll let you go' when the alternative is remaining in captivity and the ultimate threat of WORSE (like death) is not defensible consent. It wouldn't hold up in a court of law (if proven), it'd be considered rape. Psychologically holding someone down to force sex is an equal idea to physically holding someone down to force sex.

Consent in a SHiP story isn't really peril, I suppose somewhere in there, it might be possible to drum up situations where it is, but it'd be more difficult and require some serious set up. You are right to imply that a villain forcing a heroine to say yes to sex would qualify as peril, you are WRONG in thinking that this is the same thing as consent. Consent means no one is being FORCED to do this, it means they both had a choice and that they chose to have sex. Convincing someone to have sex by withholding something that belongs to them that they NEED more (like their freedom for instance) is not a choice at all, so its rape.


I'm excising gender from the equation on purpose. Women can and do rape men as well. Your example of somebody lying about their love of someone in order to cajole sex is a very different example from the superheroine being rail roaded into having sex in a vague hope that it means she'll be let free or that it will save somebodies life. LIES, cruel as they are, are a mutual stakes game. If someone lies to you, you have to take some ownership in BELIEVING the lie, this is not in any way shape or form to say that the liar is therefore innocent, but nine times out of ten you probably knew somewhere deep down that the person lied to you for sex. I PERSONALLY still qualify this as rape, but its muddy water where legality is concerned (You'd also need some kind of telepathic powers to know for sure that the woman didn't at least believe she loved him when she said it.. because while dumping someone tends to indicate you've fallen out of love, it doesn't prove you never DID love). But again the issue of a heroine being forced to have sex under psychological duress is a much less muddy principle.

If a villain says "fuck me and I'll let you go", then I would 100% agree with you. However, there are more layers in this story than just "I'll let you go for sex". Thug number three suggestions they should have sex to avoid suspicion from his friends, and Dagger agrees if they have sex then his friends would be less suspicious of him being in the room after he said "they are going to far". This isn't as simple as "I'll let you go for sex". This is more like "Let's fake your peril to help you escape when they less suspect it".

Her thoughts were if he had just let her go, then his friends would be on them in an instant, and faking sexual peril would be her best option with the thug who appears less violent than his partners. He basically played her like a player would play any woman.

I gave you multiple examples of consent that are peril in previous posts. I'm not going to repeat them. It's your choice to read them or not.

[Femina]

Faking peril' isn't peril, it's faking peril. I guess I have to go through all your examples one by one and explain why they are either rape peril, not rape OR peril, or else peril but not SEXUAL peril.

'Love Potion and Spells'
-This is just rape?

'Sex with self from alternate universe?'
-If its mutually agreed upon by both you's than it isn't rape and it isn't peril. If its forced than you are just being raped by yourself from another universe. Other you's aren't you they are other yous.

'Natural Seduction'
-Probably not Rape in most cases, also not peril at all in those cases, but it might be rape, in which case it would be peril.

'Love/Hate'
-Not Rape or peril, at least in the example as given. If the heroine and villain are just hanging out having sex, its not really all that perilous unless a blackmail situation occurs later on, but even then the peril comes later on not during the sex, and the peril itself isn't actually sexually oriented, but rather emotionally driven around the blackmail itself.

'Pharamones'
-if utilized on purpose to force sex upon someone whom otherwise would not have sex, ITS JUST RAPE!
-If this is something they can't control... it's not rape but probably not peril... though you may actually be on to something here.

[GeekyPornCritic]

Faking peril' isn't peril, it's faking peril. I guess I have to go through all your examples one by one and explain why they are either rape peril, not rape OR peril, or else peril but not SEXUAL peril.

'Love Potion and Spells'
-This is just rape?

'Sex with self from alternate universe?'
-If its mutually agreed upon by both you's than it isn't rape and it isn't peril. If its forced than you are just being raped by yourself from another universe. Other you's aren't you they are other yous.

'Natural Seduction'
-Probably not Rape in most cases, also not peril at all in those cases, but it might be rape, in which case it would be peril.

'Love/Hate'
-Not Rape or peril, at least in the example as given. If the heroine and villain are just hanging out having sex, its not really all that perilous unless a blackmail situation occurs later on, but even then the peril comes later on not during the sex, and the peril itself isn't actually sexually oriented, but rather emotionally driven around the blackmail itself.

'Pharamones'
-if utilized on purpose to force sex upon someone whom otherwise would not have sex, ITS JUST RAPE!
-If this is something they can't control... it's not rape but probably not peril... though you may actually be on to something here.

In the context of that movie "Faking Peril" was Peril because the thug who claimed to turn of a new leaf was being dishonest, and his buddies were filming them. A heroine doesn't always need to be aware of a peril. You clearly have ignored and refused many facts and examples.

Those are none of the examples of consensual peril that I posted. You're just ignoring facts from other forms of SHIP to justify your point, and that's fine. That's your choice.

[Femina]

In the context of that movie "Faking Peril" was Peril because the thug who claimed to turn of a new leaf was being dishonest, and his buddies were filming them. A heroine doesn't always need to be aware of a peril. You clearly have ignored and refused many facts and examples.

Oh okay thanks for clearing that up then. In that case

IT'S RAPE!!!!!!

[AvaHeinz]

I think it's fair to say that it's rape when consent is muddled. That's why convincing someone to have sex with you under false pretences ("Oh yeah, babystyles, I'm totally the front sing-man for Nickelback") is considered rape. If even THAT level of deceit can be considered rape, then I think "I'll release you from captivity if you have sex with me" is rape - even if it's NOT a lie. It's duress. And if it's not rape, it's as bad as rape, and I'm not sure what ELSE you'd call it.

I think it's fair to say that it's rape when consent is muddled. That's why convincing someone to have sex with you under false pretences ("Oh yeah, babystyles, I'm totally the front sing-man for Nickelback") is considered rape. If even THAT level of deceit can be considered rape, then I think "I'll release you from captivity if you have sex with me" is rape - even if it's NOT a lie. It's duress. And if it's not rape, it's as bad as rape, and I'm not sure what ELSE you'd call it.

Having sex under false pretenses does not automatically equal rape. Lying you are a musician in a band does not equal rape. Players lie to women all of the time to have sex. By your definition, then all players would be rapist. Some men lie about how much money they have. Some men lie about how many partners they've had. A lot of guys lie they are not virgins during their first time. Some women lie as well.

A friend of mines lied to her now ex-boyfriend that she loved him, and dumped him after sex just to have sex. Is that really rape?

The sad truth is some people lie in relationships for they can maintain the relationship, and sex is part of the package.

The UK now has a new law that requires transgender individuals to reveal their gender history before they part take in sex. This type of law I agree with. Partners should know if their parnters were born a different sex.

G'Day

Depends on jurisdiction, most country would not consider simply "Lying" for sex is rape, given the women have express verbal consent, that mean if a man and a woman met on a bar, and the man say "I am the Prince William, would you have sex with me?" If the woman say yes and then both have sex, even if the man is not prince William, that is not rape. Even tho if that is a clear cut lines, because everyone knows who HRH William is.

However, if the degree of "Lies" get to a point where the woman is "coerces" which mean tempted or forced either by physical or psychological threat and resulting in a "consent", then that consent is "tainted" which mean that consent cannot be use as an indication of willingness to engage in sexual activities.

So, in the situation, the villains kidnapped the heroine, and one of them said "Hey, I want to let you go, I will let you go, but to allow me to facilitate your escape, I will need to have sex with you so they will not be suspicious." And the heroine said "Yes", that is a tainted consent, which would not hold up in most jurisdiction, because the Heroine is in a duress situation, she was being kidnapped, and the person who "Propose" the deal is one of her kidnapper, and any request that born from this situation, where the heroine was not supposed to be in willingly, would be a coercion. If the cop catches all 3 villains, all 3 will be charged with rape and statutory rape, the former refer to the actual action of raping the heroine, the latter refer to having sex with the heroine under duress from the kidnapping, whether or not consent was given.

It's like statutory murder (Or Felony Murder in the US), during a commission of a serious crime, if you killed a person either accidentally or intentionally, you will still be charged with murder, even tho if you can prove the gun just misfired or your knife just slipped and the killing is an result of an accident.

I have seen many of these type of situation as a rape/abuse councillor. Lies in a duress situation can easily lead to coercion.

Law in most EU country are even straighter, in Sweden, it does not matter if the woman have consent, sex can only initiate legally by the women side, man cannot ask for sex and if they do and even the girl said yes, that still rape. This is why the Swedish want to talk to Julian Assange for the rape case he was accused of.

Thanks
Ava

[Imagineer]

Out here in the real world...


-----

Another interesting aspect of SHIP is the way it can play with, distort, and even subvert the idea of the protagonist. In traditional storytelling, we're meant to identify with the hero, or at least be able to understand if not sympathize with their point of view. But in SHIP the superheroine isn't always the protagonist... or she's deliberately created to be unsympathetic, sometimes with character traits that defy reason or belief, so that the audience is pushed to expect, accept, justify, or even root for her failure/demise. Sometimes the heroine is absurdly cocky, shows bafflingly bad judgement or an incredible lack of situational awareness. Sometimes the heroine's vulnerability is ridiculously easy to exploit.

It might be just the artifice of fantasy, the fetish equivalent of the impossibly hot woman in lingerie not having money to pay for pizza delivered by the impossibly well-hung and accommodating delivery man -- guaranteeing prompt delivery of the desired material, because the point is not to experience nuanced character development or dramatic uncertainty about going hungry or losing employment. But maybe the stilted traits of the superheroine are there to safely couch or manipulate the element of consent. What do the unrealistic aspects tell us about what we're looking for or steering clear of?

[Bert]

This conversation has devolved into a highly granular dissection of what constitutes rape. I'm not saying that conversation isn't worth having, but in the context of this thread I think it's just an effort to avoid responsibility for the obvious fact that SHIP involves the mistreatment of fantasy heroines. Arguing that SHIP "can" involve consensual sex is just grasping at straws to alleviate guilt. That's just silly. We SHIP fans, and admittedly there are many flavors, derive sexual pleasure from watching or reading about fantasy heroic women finding themselves in perilous situations. Mostly, it's a "what if" scenario played out beyond what movies and TV shows can depict. If female superheroes are out there fighting crime it stands to reason that they will eventually face being over-matched. What happens then? Now, different tastes lead to different videos and stories. What one fan is on board with may be a bridge too far for another. To be honest, I've sometimes wondered about the mindsets of individuals who prefer content far beyond what I enjoy. But actually attacking the character of a member of this board for their particular taste in fantasy SHIP material is going too far. Discussing limits is one thing, personal attacks is quite another.

[GeekyPornCritic]

This conversation has devolved into a highly granular dissection of what constitutes rape. I'm not saying that conversation isn't worth having, but in the context of this thread I think it's just an effort to avoid responsibility for the obvious fact that SHIP involves the mistreatment of fantasy heroines. Arguing that SHIP "can" involve consensual sex is just grasping at straws to alleviate guilt. That's just silly. We SHIP fans, and admittedly there are many flavors, derive sexual pleasure from watching or reading about fantasy heroic women finding themselves in perilous situations. Mostly, it's a "what if" scenario played out beyond what movies and TV shows can depict. If female superheroes are out there fighting crime it stands to reason that they will eventually face being over-matched. What happens then? Now, different tastes lead to different videos and stories. What one fan is on board with may be a bridge too far for another. To be honest, I've sometimes wondered about the mindsets of individuals who prefer content far beyond what I enjoy. But actually attacking the character of a member of this board for their particular taste in fantasy SHIP material is going too far. Discussing limits is one thing, personal attacks is quite another.

Bert, my stance on consensual sex is not grasping at straws to alleviate guilt. You do not know how I feel about this genre. I'm one of the least guiltiest people on this site. I talk about the fetish on social media and even had a blog in the past (considering restarting the blog).

You do not consider consensual sex as a peril, and that is your opinion on the genre. That is your decision to ignore content with consent was dangerous and a poor decision on the heroine's part. In Pulse Girl, Pulse Girl discovers the senator is a villain and his bodyguards were able to defeat her with strength by numbers. She comes up with a new plan before she confronts him at his public office. She agrees to be his whore by her own decision. He didn't force her. He did not arrange this meeting. He is unaware she is wearing a wire while sucking his dick, and he is begging about his crimes. The police hears everything, but Pulse Girl wants to finish giving head before busting him.

-----

Another interesting aspect of SHIP is the way it can play with, distort, and even subvert the idea of the protagonist. In traditional storytelling, we're meant to identify with the hero, or at least be able to understand if not sympathize with their point of view. But in SHIP the superheroine isn't always the protagonist... or she's deliberately created to be unsympathetic, sometimes with character traits that defy reason or belief, so that the audience is pushed to expect, accept, justify, or even root for her failure/demise. Sometimes the heroine is absurdly cocky, shows bafflingly bad judgement or an incredible lack of situational awareness. Sometimes the heroine's vulnerability is ridiculously easy to exploit.

It might be just the artifice of fantasy, the fetish equivalent of the impossibly hot woman in lingerie not having money to pay for pizza delivered by the impossibly well-hung and accommodating delivery man -- guaranteeing prompt delivery of the desired material, because the point is not to experience nuanced character development or dramatic uncertainty about going hungry or losing employment. But maybe the stilted traits of the superheroine are there to safely couch or manipulate the element of consent. What do the unrealistic aspects tell us about what we're looking for or steering clear of?

Me and a friend were having a similar conversation yesterday about a man's point of view. The male normally plays the villain in SHIP. There has been a rise in femdom content in SHIP, and I rarely see the community discuss it. Most of the femdom content are from videos by Primal Fetish. There is also the very popular series Monster Girl Quest with a male hero similar to Link from The Legend of Zelda. Guys put themselves in the point of view as a hero to be defeated by a sexy villain such as Poison Ivy. It's rarely done in stories. I think I've read only one story with a superhero as the protagonist and victim of a villainess.

[Bert]

" She comes up with a new plan before she confronts him at his public office. She agrees to be his whore by her own decision. He didn't force her. He did not arrange this meeting. He is unaware she is wearing a wire while sucking his dick, and he is begging about his crimes. The police hears everything, but Pulse Girl wants to finish giving head before busting him."

The scenario you describe involves no peril, and therefore is not SHIP.

[GeekyPornCritic]

" She comes up with a new plan before she confronts him at his public office. She agrees to be his whore by her own decision. He didn't force her. He did not arrange this meeting. He is unaware she is wearing a wire while sucking his dick, and he is begging about his crimes. The police hears everything, but Pulse Girl wants to finish giving head before busting him."

The scenario you describe involves no peril, and therefore is not SHIP.

Going undercover is dangerous because she is risking her life and career as a superheroine. Do you think an undercover heroine would want to have sex with a criminal? Absolutely not, but it was her best option of busting this villain. What if a villain cums inside of a heroine and she becomes pregnant? What if the villain discovers her identity?

The definition of peril is serious and immediate danger. Is it not dangerous for a married superheroine such as Fuchsia Fox to have an affair and her reveal her secret identity to her billionaire boyrfriend? That's risky and very dangerous because a villain could have forced her boyfriend to reveal her identity or put her in a situation that reveals her affair to her husband.
Is it not dangerous to go undercover or use seduction as a means to get information to defeat a villain?

[Femina]

Another interesting aspect of SHIP is the way it can play with, distort, and even subvert the idea of the protagonist. In traditional storytelling, we're meant to identify with the hero, or at least be able to understand if not sympathize with their point of view. But in SHIP the superheroine isn't always the protagonist... or she's deliberately created to be unsympathetic, sometimes with character traits that defy reason or belief, so that the audience is pushed to expect, accept, justify, or even root for her failure/demise. Sometimes the heroine is absurdly cocky, shows bafflingly bad judgement or an incredible lack of situational awareness. Sometimes the heroine's vulnerability is ridiculously easy to exploit.

It might be just the artifice of fantasy, the fetish equivalent of the impossibly hot woman in lingerie not having money to pay for pizza delivered by the impossibly well-hung and accommodating delivery man -- guaranteeing prompt delivery of the desired material, because the point is not to experience nuanced character development or dramatic uncertainty about going hungry or losing employment. But maybe the stilted traits of the superheroine are there to safely couch or manipulate the element of consent. What do the unrealistic aspects tell us about what we're looking for or steering clear of?

That is one perspective but I don't think it's always as clear cut 'so far removed' fantasy that it necessarily represents a conglomorative 'steering clear of' what's too real... not that there isn't always a high degree of fantastical material when dealing with SUPERheroines even in their most realistic settings... but this day and age there are just as many stories about more feasibly realistic vigilantes. Many of the stories on this site alone, have started to very meticulously follow the psychology of the heroine in question, and to indicate that the peril directed her way is sort of a tragic side effect of doing something dangerous but ultimately necessary or worthwhile.

I'm not here to invalidate your perspective here or anything though, I am not male so I don't see things from a male perspective, nor am I a villain club type member who can get behind the fantasy of imagining what the villains in the situation are experiencing, but I've definitely seen videos and read stories precisely as you've described them here. Instead I empathize with the heroines perspective. So for me the heroine needs to feel like, if not a real person, than a real heroine. I don't tend to find much of interest in stories where the heroine is made unlikable so that we can feel better about the bad things happening to her, and I cannot empathize with villains, so in such cases my turn off is either that the story is from the perspective of a heroine that doesn't feel like a heroine or else its from the perspective of a villain neither of which are archetypes that I personally find any value in.

The fact that I get aroused by empathizing with powerful women in duress likely says a F'kton about myself, but it also does not represent a break in my reasoning capability nor does it hamper my ability to know what is best for myself and other women I know. Just because I like to empathize with the fantasy of strong women being disempowered, does not mean I'd appreciate being disempowered myself. While I don't feel its valid to say this about EVERY member on this board, I do think its safe to say that I'm not alone in having a perfectly ordinary functional and safe separation of fantasy vs reality with my fetish, no matter how realistic the material, and that this is most probably true for the greater majority of us all.

Going undercover is dangerous because she is risking her life and career as a superheroine. Do you think an undercover heroine would want to have sex with a criminal? Absolutely not, but it was her best option of busting this villain. What if a villain cums inside of a heroine and she becomes pregnant? What if the villain discovers her identity?

The definition of peril is serious and immediate danger. Is it not dangerous for a married superheroine such as Fuchsia Fox to have an affair and her reveal her secret identity to her billionaire boyrfriend? That's risky and very dangerous because a villain could have forced her boyfriend to reveal her identity or put her in a situation that reveals her affair to her husband.
Is it not dangerous to go undercover or use seduction as a means to get information to defeat a villain?

Just to clear up any misinformation here. I want to clear up that It's not that I believe its IMPOSSIBLE to have consensual sex involved in a peril situation, it's that due to the nature of the fetish its far less common and requires a lot of extra work to set up believably. I was never trying to tell you that consent is impossible in SHiP, just that its so much rarer than non-consent that the fact consent is 'possible' in Ship is not a shield to be used against the arguments to be made by the outside that our fetish primarily focuses around the fantasy of the sexual mistreatment of women. It DOES, to an ENORMOUS degree, its better to just take ownership of that, accept that its fantasy, mark the boundaries that represents and hold to them. The best argument one can make that their SHiP fetish doesn't affect their behavior is by being a SHiP fetishist that treats the people in their lives well and doesn't go around looking for strong women to abuse, trying to pretend like the fetish is something its not will only ever look like an insincere defense from an outside perspective.

[GeekyPornCritic]

One of SHIP's most common themes is obtaining the ultimate woman or most desirable woman. The average guy doesn't have a good chance to hook up with or have a relationship with the most beautiful women. Superheroines are described as the most beautiful and powerful women on the planet. Every man from young and old desires these women. Good people contain their lust and allow their fantasies remain fantasies.

However, villains live their fantasies by force. Many writers describe it as obtaining the ultimate prize. It is basically the same concept of Bride Kidnapping or Raptio. The villains can keep their "prize" forever by breaking or taming the heroine as their sluts, sex slaves, or wives. This depends on the villain's desire for the heroine's purpose after being obtained.

As they say spoils to the victor. There is a long history of rap during and after wars. Soldiers from the winning country often rape women from the fallen country. The same is practiced in SHIP. The heroine has lost the war to the villain, and he claims his prize. Many soldiers have gotten away with rapping women from foreign nations. Governments turn a blind eye to their fallen enemy.

Just to clear up any misinformation here. I want to clear up that It's not that I believe its IMPOSSIBLE to have consensual sex involved in a peril situation, it's that due to the nature of the fetish its far less common and requires a lot of extra work to set up believably. I was never trying to tell you that consent is impossible in SHiP, just that its so much rarer than non-consent that the fact consent is 'possible' in Ship is not a shield to be used against the arguments to be made by the outside that our fetish primarily focuses around the fantasy of the sexual mistreatment of women. It DOES, to an ENORMOUS degree, its better to just take ownership of that, accept that its fantasy, mark the boundaries that represents and hold to them. The best argument one can make that their SHiP fetish doesn't affect their behavior is by being a SHiP fetishist that treats the people in their lives well and doesn't go around looking for strong women to abuse, trying to pretend like the fetish is something its not will only ever look like an insincere defense from an outside perspective.

I am going to make one thing clear. I am not saying rape does not occur in SHIP. It's one of the underlying themes in the genre. All, I am saying there are a few cases of consensual peril. It's rare and you will most likely find it by stumbling upon it. I believe it is safe to say everyone who has disagreed with me most likely have not seen any consensual peril due to it being rare and unique.

[Imagineer]

Femina, I think you misunderstand -- who said always anything? In fact I deliberately said ISN'T always, OR, SOMETIMES. It seems like folks in this thread are looking to either state universal truths or shoot down things as if they're claimed to be universal truths, when what's truly interesting about SHIP is that there AREN'T many such things. There's so much variety, people coming from so many different places, mixing so many different ingredients, and sometimes having stark fundamental disagreements. Sex or no sex, pantyhose or bare legs, cake or death.

Also, don't assume "I find this interesting" means "I have this fetish." When I say "interesting" I mean intellectually. When I want you to know my kinks I'll tell you.

So, as I was saying, one of those elements of vast variety is how the heroine is portrayed and the role she serves in the narrative. One subgenre is built on a very arch version or charicature of a superheroine that's exceedingly arrogant or cocky or reckless or naive or all of these things -- stories of extreme hubris. A related (often but certainly not always overlapping) subgenre / theme / fetish seems to demand a heroine that's pure -- moral and proper to a fault, definitely would not swear, certainly not lascivious, sometimes actually virginal. I find these themes interesting because they're very classic ideas -- one might say, respectfully, old-fashioned -- out-of-phase with "modern" ideas of flawed anti-heroes and nuanced (angsty?) characters.

And I wouldn't go so far as to say that everyone drawn to super-arrogant heroines comes from the same place, but they seem a distinct audience. What things drive that focus?

As for stories from the perspective of a villain... aside from surface voyeurism, are there many examples of the villain's perspective? Villain protagonists? My impression is that SHIP sees a lot more development of heroines than villains, and that villains tend to be plot-drivers more than characters.

And having brought that up, medium has a strong influence. Sure, there are things in common between video fans and written-work fans, and there are fans of both, but the importance of pantyhose seems much more rooted in video while the debate over long-term effects on a heroine after an unmasking seems mainly the province of the written word.

Finally, on the idea of meticulously following the psychology of the heroine, I wonder if written-word fans and especially other writers find that this is a natural conclusion or even a trap we fall into, i.e. if you ruminate enough on a heroine's story, especially developing a story beyond a single fantasy scenario, you can't help but fall in love with your heroine and render her authentically human, even if you set out with different/simpler fantasy intent. I ended up writing two novel-length stories from one specific fantasy, and more recently have been drawn to longer-form videos with some of the narrative and stylistic trappings of feature films or mainstream series, with fetish elements becoming a mere rider or framework.

[TIEnTEEZ]

I've been around here for years and I have continuously been surprised by the wide variety of fetishes that are represented.

In fact, I would go so far as to say that - even though we are all into Superheroines - I have never actually encountered any two people in this forum who have exactly the same fetish. We are all different and we all focus on different aspects of the genre.

Condemning someone else for their fetish whilst being a part of a superheroine fetish group is absolutely baffling to me. It sems hypocritical, at the very least.

I would think that simply being a part of any fetish community - and one that could easily be condemned or misunderstood by people outside of it- would give one an appreciation and a certain measure of compassion for other people who are different. I would never dream of condemning a homosexual, for example. Because I can find no moral distinction between liking the same sex, or liking superheroines. Hell, if anything, my feitshes like bondage and forced orgasms are far more morally ambiguous than anything as mundane as homosexual sex.

How can you condone videos and fantasies of superheroines in bondage, mind control, forced orgasms, but somehow draw the line at rape? I mean... if that's not your thing and it turns you off, that's fine. But you can't condemn someone else for liking it. There are people who really enjoy movies like Saw and Hostel where human beings are horrifically tortured, mutilated, and murdered. And as long as those people don't bring their fantasies to life, it's fine by me.

I think everyone here would agree that anyone who is going around tying up women against their will or subjecting them to any kind of forceful, non-consensual interaction (sexual or otherwise) in real life is reprehensible and needs to be stopped.

And if you can't draw the line between fantasy and reality, you need to seek immediate psychiatric help.

So... what are we even talking about?

[Femina]

Femina, I think you misunderstand -- who said always anything? In fact I deliberately said ISN'T always, OR, SOMETIMES. It seems like folks in this thread are looking to either state universal truths or shoot down things as if they're claimed to be universal truths, when what's truly interesting about SHIP is that there AREN'T many such things. There's so much variety, people coming from so many different places, mixing so many different ingredients, and sometimes having stark fundamental disagreements. Sex or no sex, pantyhose or bare legs, cake or death.

I did not misunderstand, which is why I deliberately stated that I wasn't writting my response in refutation to what you were saying xD. It was more a statement made as an aside 'from my experience' inspired by your post which I quoted since it was the thing I was most directly responding to/inspired to write my post from. Sorry if It came off sounding like I was saying you'd said something inaccurate or more 'absolute' than you intended. I did not mean to insinuate any such thing. Hope this clears up any confusion.

[GeekyPornCritic]

People are attracted or aroused by taboo themes. If someone tells people not to do a particular sexual act, then most people become curious on the taboo act. Teen porn, taboo porn (incest), and SHIP are three of the most controversial fetishes. Models in teen porn act and dress underage. They don't dress like someone who is 18. For anyone reading this, all models are 18 years and older. The male model is typical older in his 30s or 40s. Teen porn was one of the most popular genres in the adult industry for many years.

Of course SHIP does not need sexual content that just depends on the audience of the producer or writer. It falls into the taboo realm due to its nature in most content. Research has revealed at least 30% of men and women have rape fantasies as the aggressor or victim. Women are also better at understanding the difference between fantasy and reality. Some men struggle understanding their fantasies should not ever be attempted in reality.

I can't remember the name of the researcher, but there was research on how porn decreases true rape rates. She argued porn or erotic material allows people to enjoy their fantasies and be satisfied by the experience from the media. Thus, we are less likely to attempt the taboo in reality.

[Bronson881]

I like stories and videos that have mind control aspects to them. I can go with a villian and a villainess who sexual attraction like with Batman and Catwoman. I recently purchased two videos where Harley Quinn seduces Supergirl and it was done well. I am open to ideas if its written well and I can understand the circumstances.

[awsman]

I can't remember the name of the researcher, but there was research on how porn decreases true rape rates. She argued porn or erotic material allows people to enjoy their fantasies and be satisfied by the experience from the media. Thus, we are less likely to attempt the taboo in reality.

This explains so much about Japan.