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Femina
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The MCU almost never has a big impact on the comic books popularity, frankly enough, except when dealing with already humongously popular comic book characters. The MCU is decidedly a different entity selling to a completely different demographic. It's not strange at all to find huge fans of Black Panther in the movie going audience who have never read a single issue because frankly speaking, comic books don't matter all that much in the superhero genre anymore. It's evolved past the page to a different, more prolific, medium. So It isn't really all that important to sell X number of comics about a character anymore. Black Panther is popular enough off the page for Marvel to completely ignore whatever failings the book may fall into.
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shevek wrote:
5 years ago

Move ahead to 2019, and the new version of Carol Danvers, now known as Captain Marvel, has been rebooted six times since being introduced in 2012.

When you go from 40,000 readers for a Carol Danvers comic in 2006-2012 to 11,000 readers in 2019, you have not "won over" anybody. Probably 5,000 women buy a Captain Marvel comic every month in 2019. No huge entertainment company on the scale of Marvel would be happy with a product that only sells to 5,000 women, and yet Marvel has rebooted and rebooted this character multiple times, keeping her alive for the sake of both the movie and the inability for DC to steal the name "Captain Marvel" for Shazam.
1. I honestly don't know where you get the energy to spew out these huge rambling posts, but fair enough.

2. the "rebooting" is a pure sales gimmic based on the logic that "comic nerds" will rush out and buy any number 1 comic. The Captain Marvel character from 2012 to date is pretty much a linear story line albeit with God Doom in the middle and the train wreck of Civil War 2 (which taught them than, as Femina points out, print fans and movie fans want different things).

3. demonstrably, the Captain Marvel brand is a success, arguably the most successful Marvel female character whether you like it or not, whether you honestly think thigh high boots, swimsuit and evening gloves would actually work to have a character taken seriously (not a lot of law enforcement, military and superheros taking that look) or not is irrelevant, this character ticked the boxes, has a motivated fan base and has an actual movie coming out. It does not matter if you like Black Widow more, she's a supporting character (rightly or wrongly) in the same guise as Warmachine, Falcon and Scarlet Witch.

4. I fully expect 8 paragraphs broadly misunderstanding Colombo. Remember, you don't guess who did it in Colombo, you watch him solve it, so saying "I think the butler did it" when they showed you at the start that it was the wife, does not make any sense.
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1. Too much coffee, man. I should really be writing Heroineburgh scripts. :)

2. No, my friend, beyond the #1 gimmickry (which applies to all #1 comics), the rebooting of characters that sell in decreasing quantities over time is a common practice nowadays at Marvel. They don't give up on 'progressive' characters that do poorly in sales because to do so would be to admit defeat in the efforts to promote said characters. They simply proclaim the poor sales to be somehow a 'success', and then reboot the characters with new miniseries or in new combinations (cf the latest West Coast Avengers title).

Also, the Captain Marvel situation since 2012 is not precisely linear - they have made little tweaks here and there to her appearance, her demeanor and her origin - the Carol Danvers that is being promoted in the latest book (the sixth series since 2012 - Life and Times I think it's called) is a softer and more family-oriented version than the previous five - she actually comes *close* to having a love interest but of course it doesn't consummate. Like Femina said, the biggest positive is that the long hair is back, but that's not saying much.

3. I'm not sure you can demonstrate that the Captain Marvel brand is a massive success quite yet. Nor are any of the newer characters they are trying to push (many of which are in Marvel Rising) a massive success, either. The Disney channel show didn't have much impact, and they had to put the full Marvel Rising movies for free on Youtube just to get some decent eyeballs on it (similiar to what CBS briefly did with the first episode of ST Discovery S2). Given scant comic book sales for all of them, one could say that Kamala Khan, Spider-Gwen (now called Ghost Spider, just because) and Squirrel Girl are at about the same level of popularity. I saw a good amount of Spider-Gwen cosplay at the latest Con where we tabled, whereas I saw a lot less Captain Marvel cosplay, so I'd actually have to say Spider-Gwen is in the lead out of those post-2012 characters, at least at the moment. Into the Spider-verse made her even more popular. I would say that more younger females (Sana Amanat's target audience) know who Spider-Gwen is than Captain Marvel.

And let's be frank, these newer female characters are still not at the level of overall popularity compared to Black Widow, Scarlet Witch, Storm, Rogue or Jean Grey, all of whom are well-known by several generations of fans and appeared in multiple movies. I am seriously doubting that any serious numbers of core comics geeks care about Carol Danvers in comparison to any of those.

So, given that Captain Marvel is still relatively unknown in the mainstream public's mind, and not very popular among the cadres of comics geeks, I would say any demonstration of the brand's success is YET TO COME. If the Carol Danvers merchandise flies off the shelves for months after the movie comes out, I would say you are happily right. But if the merchandise sits, and a whole chain of toy stores (eg Toys R Us) has to close partially because of the mountains of unsold Rose Ticos sitting in their warehouses, then Marvel will have a problem. Cross your fingers and hope you see lots of kids wearing the Hala star in March!

4. I'm not sure what the Colombo reference refers to, unless you've caught me saying
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lionbadger
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Can't see your colombo (suspect my roaming is being shitty)

Colombo reference is this

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theScribbler
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No crush on Brie, Scribbler..although kudos to you for trying to reduce this to pulling a girl's ponytail on the playground.
It is what it is.
The "gobs of words" explaining Brie's 'equity' rider were written by Femina.
No, the gobs of words I referred to are yours. You want me to point them out, post the quotes?
I noticed that Chris Evans donated, he said so on Twitter. I can't find how much he contributed, so let's assume $1000. Add that to the $1000 from Clark Gregg, the $1000 from GoFundMe itself, and the $10,000 from "The Ellen Show" (sorry, but that's what it says right there on the contributors list) and you have 26% of the entire $48,000 total of 1,100 contributors, donated by just 4 entities.
Why assume $1000 (aka pointless). No reason to be sorry about what it says on contributors list, I already posted who gave the Ellen Show the $10k.
The other GoFundMes across the country, far away from the Hollywood hype, have not done well - I've checked Pittsburgh, Richmond, Arlington TX, Flint MI, Brooklyn and Chicago so far. Every single one is below 20% of its goal. A second GoFundMe in Los Angeles is only 33% funded. We'll see if any of those change in the couple weeks remaining.
Give em time. The hype is nationwide, twitter-wide.

Scribbler, you want to talk about "false"? This quote from the Hollywood Reporter is a FALSE statement: "DeConnick's feminist read on Danvers — her insight that a female fighter pilot ought to, say, wear pants to work rather than a swimsuit — inspired a backlash among some male fans, but it's the take that won over a new, more female-skewing audience for the comic and, ultimately, Larson."
Nope. Tis not false. Backlash among some male fans = TRUE. Won over more females = TRUE. Marvel would know.
When you go from 40,000 readers for a Carol Danvers comic in 2006-2012 to 11,000 readers in 2019, you have not "won over" anybody.
Marvel knows they won over more female-skewing audience, they have the data. Please link to source of your numbers.

Is it 40k readers in 2006 and 40k in 2007 and so on. All those years had the exact same number of readers. Seems unlikely. Are your numbers for hardcopy and digital, or hardcopy only? Again, please link.
Probably 5,000 women buy a Captain Marvel comic every month in 2019. No huge entertainment company on the scale of Marvel would be happy with a product that only sells to 5,000 women, and yet Marvel has rebooted and rebooted this character multiple times, keeping her alive for the sake of both the movie and the inability for DC to steal the name "Captain Marvel" for Shazam.
No need to make up a number, and then write the rest of paragraph referring to bogus number.

Both Marvel and DC reboot comics multiple times, for all kinds of reasons, you have not made a point here.
Will the Captain Marvel movie help her status in the comic book realm? All signs point to no.
CM movie will help her in the MCU. And in merchandise. My prediction.

Who cares if it helps CM in comic books? But feel free to link us to your source about 'all signs point to no.'
For all the hype surrounding Black Panther, and all the merchandise and Halloween costumes sold of T'Challa (I found a Black Panther mask for $1), the comic book sales for Black Panther have remained abysmal. Bringing on woke brand-name writer Ta-Nehisi Coates to write Black Panther did not help, and sales kept going down. There was absolutely no connection between the success of the Black Panther movie and the sales of the comics.
So you say...
"There was absolutely no connection between the success of the Black Panther movie and the sales of the comics."

Then why even pose the question "Will the Captain Marvel movie help her status in the comic book realm?" like you did above.

Anyway, the world is ever changing. Comic sales used to be good in the past, now people are into the movies. Superhero Movies are huge, comics not so much. Welcome to the present time in our lives.
The difference between Captain Marvel and Black Panther though, is made clear by Femina: the identity elements of Black Panther were largely in the subtext and did not overwhelm the action, plot and special effects which was what most people came to see. Plus, although the focus was on Black Panther, there were multiple other characters that the publicity and the audience could focus on: Shuri, Killmonger, Avengers, Dora Milaje.

In contrast, Brie Larson is making her activist stance almost the *sole* focus of the publicity. Since Captain Marvel is nearly the only notable character in the whole film (Nick Fury comes a distant second, and nobody else is even really shown much except the faceless Skrull enemies), she is carrying all of the publicity of the film in a make-or-break situation. She, and pretty much she alone, has to appeal to the entire "four-quadrant" audience in order for this film to carry all the demographics, and if her appeal isn't broad enough (no pun intended), that could spell problems for certain audience segments.
No. This is nonsense. Verbal garbage. And you misread Femina. Or show us where you think she said "the identity elements of Black Panther were largely in the subtext and did not overwhelm the action, plot and special effects which was what most people came to see." I can't find it. She did use the word 'subtext' once, but everything else in this quote is YOU.

Superhero movies are huge, people like them. That's all.

https://www.boxofficemojo.com/genres/ch ... erhero.htm

Contrasting between BP movie already released and the results are in v.s. CM movie that's not out yet (even tho plenty of people are going to see it) has got to be the most pointless contrast you could endeavor upon. Probably why your attempt turned out so poorly.

Brie is NOT making her activism the *sole* focus of the publicity. You're doing that. It's your focus. Nick Fury is not distant second, Nick is very popular.

No, she is NOT carrying all of the publicity of the film in a make-or-break situation. Plus it's ALREADY not a make-or-break situation as the presales have SOARED, and it's a MARVEL superhero movie. It's 'make' is a done deal.

"She, and pretty much she alone, has to appeal to the entire "four-quadrant" audience in order for this film to carry all the demographics"
I don't know what this gobbledegook means. She's already appealing, Marvel movies are appealing, Audiences want to see it. Is that close to what you mean? What's the entire four quadrant audience? I know what demographics are, but what do you consider "all the demographics?." I'll go out on a limb. Tons of people are going to see CM movie. If the movie is good to great, and for some even average, then it will carry all the people who go to see it. Even if it's meh, it's going to be a hit at box office anyway. And she'll be pivotal in Avengers 4. Mark my words.

I'm definitely going to see it with friends before Avengers 4. Even people lukewarm on CM are probably going to want to see her movie pre Avengers 4, cause of the hype that she's in Avengers 4. Avengers 3, then CM, then Avengers 4, that's the order in which to see these movies. Without question.

"and if her appeal isn't broad enough (no pun intended), that could spell problems for certain audience segments."


You mean the small in number anti-Brie anti-diversity butthurt alt-righters from alt-right Bounding Into Comics? That certain audience segment? That's not a problem, that's a bonus. They can stay home. Won't matter one iota.

:im: :lynda1: :ss: :bh:
the Scribbler

:christmastree:
If U C Xmas tree on TV show
it's Xmas Activism! :christmas:

:lynda1:
If U C attractive brunette in a movie

it's Dark Haired Women Activism!

Be very careful!
Don't B indoctrinated!
Cover your eyes! & ears!
:tv:
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_____________________________________________________________________________________


https://heroichollywood.com/captain-mar ... ckson-bts/
behind the scenes clip is 3rd image(video) down page

_____________________________________________________________________________________


https://pro.boxoffice.com/long-range-tr ... in-marvel/



:lynda1: :ss:
the Scribbler

:christmastree:
If U C Xmas tree on TV show
it's Xmas Activism! :christmas:

:lynda1:
If U C attractive brunette in a movie

it's Dark Haired Women Activism!

Be very careful!
Don't B indoctrinated!
Cover your eyes! & ears!
:tv:
Bert

Scrib, I I applaud your dedication. It's good that someone is taking the time to dissect the reams and reams of extremist bullshit from shevek. If I cared a little more and had the patience I'd be doing it too. Shevek, I wish you would abandon your crusade against justifiable "wokeness". A movement is underway to reverse decades of discrimination against women, including within the entertainment industry. As with any movement, sometimes some people will overreach. You, for reasons I cannot fathom, seem to be on a Quixotic quest to tar every expression of support for this movement with baseless accusations of overreach. It makes you look uncaring, which I don't think you are. Please consider the fact that you are guilty of the very overreach in your novelic posts that you seek to ascribe to your targets.
Last edited by Bert 5 years ago, edited 1 time in total.
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It's the rubber banding effect. If something is pushed down far enough it pushes back HARDER to make up for it, oftentimes going to far the other direction a little bit before waffling back and forth awhile before resting even. I mean..... I wish people like shevek would lower the volume a bit on the sheer disdain and contempt they have for the underprivileged elements efforts (the terminology of 'wokeness' as you say is what really raises my hackles)

THAT BEING SAID... I don't necessarily feel that the push back from them is necessarily a bad thing. A rubber banding effect that received no resistance WOULD just run off and take the extra distance without questioning it. Human nature is such that save for the very few, we take what we are given and keep going rarely looking back until directly prompted to... so the push back against the push back is at least theoretically the thing that would eventually land us at perfect equality... in theory. The two party system of American government sort of indicates that the rubber banding between two extremes ultimately will never stop and just waffle more violently as time passes.

Still... I don't mind men or the 'white folk' pushing back against what they fear is over reaching necessarily. It is human nature to fear change after all and is generally unavoidable. What I DO mind is that so many of them do it with an air of smug disgust towards their opponents that creates all that 'woke' terminology. Words already exist for all those things, the lexicon for 'snowflakes' is entirely populated with insults that read like unbidden propaganda intended to reduce the opposition to a subhuman light and prevents calm or rational discussion from occurring.
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Ok chaps and chapesses, feelings have been expressed, lets keep on topic re the thread title, news about CM.
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Sure, Tallyho, am I allowed to respond to the query about Carol Danvers comic book sales? I've crunched the numbers.
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shevek wrote:
5 years ago
Sure, Tallyho, am I allowed to respond to the query about Carol Danvers comic book sales? I've crunched the numbers.
Can you do one paragraph on the comic book numbers and one on the movie trailer(s)? :tongue:
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OK Dominator.

Regarding the latest trailer, I'm underwhelmed that it's three weeks away and we haven't seen anything substantial from anyone else from the movie, other than Carol, Nick Fury, the cat, Monica's mother, and some Skrulls. I'd like to see more of what we're getting into, like Mar-Vell and the Kree Corps. Is Monica Rambeau going to be in the movie and if so will she be introduced into the MCU as Photon or Spectrum? I'd also like more of a face to be put to the bad guys instead of just settling for semi-anonymous shapeshifters..is there a Supreme Skrull?

As for the comic book numbers, the Comichron website indicates the following:
Ms Marvel 2006 comic started at 75,000 and ended in 2010 at 22,000 after 50 issues.
The average sales of that title were about double the average sales of each Captain Marvel title from 2012-2017.
Sales for a Captain Marvel comic reached a nadir of 11,500 at the beginning of 2018.
They are now experiencing an uptick with the Life of Captain Marvel to about 27,000.
If the sales of Jan 2019's new #1 (which will be announced end of Feb) are well over 75,000 then we'll know the uptick is serious.
Marvel can't say for sure that a new female-skewing audience has replaced the older comic book audience for the Captain Marvel title,
because they don't have a demographic survey confirming it (unless someone is aware of a factual source).

OK, this is a big movie. It will do well. Everyone will enjoy seeing it.
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To be honest, I'm surprised that after watching the various trailers for both Captain Marvel and Shazam, I'm more interested in the Shazam movie than CM. I wouldn't have expected that in a million years. And I seriously like female superhero movies. I'm perplexed.
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DrDominator9 wrote:
5 years ago
To be honest, I'm surprised that after watching the various trailers for both Captain Marvel and Shazam, I'm more interested in the Shazam movie than CM. I wouldn't have expected that in a million years. And I seriously like female superhero movies. I'm perplexed.
I'm also more interested in "Shazam" than "Marvel Studios' Captain Marvel" -- but I know why.

There's just a ton of baggage on Captain Marvel, whereas thanks to the trainwreck status of the DCEU Shazam gets to be a thing unto itself.

And I don't mean the social equity noise -- I mean Captain Marvel is the next chapter in one of a handful of modern tales of Homeric scope and cultural impact. It's an investment. Right now interest is low because there's nothing to be gained and maybe things to be lost from paying it any attention before it's up on the screen and I'm watching it.

OTOH Shazam and I don't owe each other anything. If it's mediocre, or if I'm tired or show up late and get a bad seat in a small theatre with a fussy baby, no worries mate! And since it's clearly "Big" with superpowers, I'm pretty sure it'll add some happy nostalgia to the safe recipe of silly fun with a good heart in the third act. And I'm looking forward to seeing the TV spots leading up to its release. There's nothing to spoil, and they're likely to give me more fun bits.
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I really like this trailer:

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Dear god... the nearer this movie comes to release the louder and more obnoxious become the haters! I hit the refresh on my Youtube and get no less than three options asking me to waste my time listening to the un'woke'est, steelest of steel hearted (definitely not snowflakes) TOTALLY NOT ACTIVIST youtubers ranting about how unbelievable it is that Brie Larson would DARE commit such atrocities as to do things like.... compare her upcoming move to that golden gem Indiana Jones!??!?!!?!!?! I mean how DARE she! That series had TWO great movies out of four! That's fifty percent!

In all honesty though, it's stuff like THIS that puts the eyerolling in me whenever I hear a social injustice warrior complaining about somebodies activism like activism itself is morally suspect. LOOK at the crap your people are shilling? THAT'S activism of the most active and spiteful kind. Is Brie Larson being activist? Sure, and she's using it to tell little girls 'Hey you can do it!' But somehow, to these CRAZIES on youtube that's WORSE than using activism to call an actress in a movie a 'sellout shill who should choke and die!!!!'

Jesus Christ we're all gonna die in a flood.

Anyway, I agree Lurkndog, that one is the best trailer yet. Though according to some, we don't know how reactionary it is. It could just be filled with stealth reshot footage to advertise to the SHEEP just how totally charismatic that unsmiling wretch really is!
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A “you can do it” message from an actress who portrays an entirely fictional person seems amusingly odd to me. If the message is not a trite attempt to add profundity to a fun-looking movie, then connect the message to a movie about people who actually “did it”. Portraying a historical figure would be logical for such a message; portraying a fantasy character isn’t quite logical. For a motivational message about being a pilot, why not emphasize the message with the Amelia Earhart movie with Hilary Swank? In other words, connect a message of the realistic opportunity someone has to reality.
Just seems trite. And in no way will prevent me from enjoying the movie if it’s well-made.
Ignore any virtue-signaling; it's clearly just you.

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sugarcoater wrote:
5 years ago
A “you can do it” message from an actress who portrays an entirely fictional person seems amusingly odd to me. If the message is not a trite attempt to add profundity to a fun-looking movie, then connect the message to a movie about people who actually “did it”. Portraying a historical figure would be logical for such a message; portraying a fantasy character isn’t quite logical. For a motivational message about being a pilot, why not emphasize the message with the Amelia Earhart movie with Hilary Swank? In other words, connect a message of the realistic opportunity someone has to reality.
Just seems trite. And in no way will prevent me from enjoying the movie if it’s well-made.
Sure fine, I don't disagree with any of that, yet amusing to an individual with great real world inspirations may be, we nevertheless live in a world where people come to define themselves as much by the impact in their lives of their fictional heroes as their real world heroes... but more than that if we're going to give fans of Captain Marvel this kind of SHIT all across youtube where they are being exposed to it for the sole crime of having watching the official Captain Marvel trailer, we should probably go out and scream at all the fans of Peter Parker or Miles Morales then about how 'Woke' the messages of their heroes are, because we don't, at least not on this scale. THIS movie is being targeted by the white knight's out to protect us from the terrifying SJW's who would like us to believe they are all just looking out for our best interests by shitting on a film and it's just some kind of coincidence (Or insult?) that happens to be starring a female. They'd do this to ANY film staring anyone promoting any sort of message they disagreed with though right? It's only coincidental that the messages they disagree with are ANYTHING WHATSOEVER to do with women or race.

My beef isn't with the tenets of what the world should or should not be, nor what heroes we should or should not praise. It's the HYPOCRACY of denouncing activism THROUGH activism. It's the BLINDNESS of scrabbling for ANY reason to crap on a film that one would raise a film series like Indiana (FIFTY PERCENT) Jones up as a perfect jewel somehow beyond comparison JUST so they can shit on this other film they haven't even seen yet, and it's the VITRIOL with which they do it then the way they then turn around and try to hide behind a thin veil of innocence when called out on their behavior. It's F'King ridiculous that I have to roll my eyes at three grown ass white man youtuber adverts (and the occasional white girl whose realized just how WOKE the rest of the world is!) complaining about how Brie Larson is RUINING THE MCU!!!! mixed in between otherwise innocent Frozen 2 reaction shots, video game lets plays just because anyone who looks at a Captain Marvel Trailer then has all this bullshit to deal with and all just because Brie Larson 'said a thing.'

Robert Downey Jr. went to F'king jail because he was a drugged out alcoholic... I never saw a single youtube video wondering if he was a good choice to play Iron Man.

Can these people just SHUT THE FUCK UP and watch the movie at LEAST before they fill my news feed with this kind of trollop? Is it really asking so much that they save their anti-superheroine activism until they've seen the actual fucking movie?
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Maybe the "you can do it" message will make more sense to folks once they've seen the movie.
Or maybe it'll make more sense considering it's coming from an actress who's made a successful career -- enough to star in Marvel's first superheroine movie. Enough to demand more equitable treatment for others on productions and affect some incremental progressive change in her business.

Maybe people could consider the amusing oddness of criticism that what she's doing is simultaneously not enough and too much.
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I haven't seen any of the trailers yet, is she still wearing that wetsuit?
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Trying to figure out what the other movie is in the Indiana Jones series is that's good. Cos that's a 25% series if ever there was one. The ratio is so bad it almost makes the good one look like a fluke.
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tallyho
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Maybe it was a reference to the famous Welsh porn series
"In Diana Jones"
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Raders of the Lost ark and the Last Crusade are generally considered the good ones. They both deal with religious artifacts... if that makes any difference I don't know. I liked both of those. Frankly 'Kingdom of the Crystal Skull' bad as it is, is BETTER than the Temple of Doom which is film real toilet paper.

But my point is, THIS is what the youtube hate has reduced their anger to in order to keep up an increasing volume of useless vitriol to try and sabotage the film with ALL while pretending that they are just concerned citizens with no 'activist' agenda themselves.

Not a single one of whom have seen the movie. Just whining infants.
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Femina wrote:
5 years ago
Raders of the Lost ark and the Last Crusade are generally considered the good ones. They both deal with religious artifacts... if that makes any difference I don't know. I liked both of those. Frankly 'Kingdom of the Crystal Skull' bad as it is, is BETTER than the Temple of Doom which is film real toilet paper.

But my point is, THIS is what the youtube hate has reduced their anger to in order to keep up an increasing volume of useless vitriol to try and sabotage the film with ALL while pretending that they are just concerned citizens with no 'activist' agenda themselves.

Not a single one of whom have seen the movie. Just whining infants.
I agree on your analysis on the Indiana Jones saga.

Does anyone think after Elizabeth, Kate Blanchant's choice of movies roles went way down hill?
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Femina
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Dazzle1 wrote:
5 years ago
Femina wrote:
5 years ago
Raders of the Lost ark and the Last Crusade are generally considered the good ones. They both deal with religious artifacts... if that makes any difference I don't know. I liked both of those. Frankly 'Kingdom of the Crystal Skull' bad as it is, is BETTER than the Temple of Doom which is film real toilet paper.

But my point is, THIS is what the youtube hate has reduced their anger to in order to keep up an increasing volume of useless vitriol to try and sabotage the film with ALL while pretending that they are just concerned citizens with no 'activist' agenda themselves.

Not a single one of whom have seen the movie. Just whining infants.
I agree on your analysis on the Indiana Jones saga.

Does anyone think after Elizabeth, Kate Blanchant's choice of movies roles went way down hill?
I dunno? Was that before or after Lord of the Rings?
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Imagineer wrote:
5 years ago
Maybe the "you can do it" message will make more sense to folks once they've seen the movie.
Or maybe it'll make more sense considering it's coming from an actress who's made a successful career -- enough to star in Marvel's first superheroine movie. Enough to demand more equitable treatment for others on productions and affect some incremental progressive change in her business.

Maybe people could consider the amusing oddness of criticism that what she's doing is simultaneously not enough and too much.
No disagreement with your perspective. I just thought it was amusing that a “you can do it” message—as referenced here (I don’t know how much of it is actually in the movie—is connected to an impossible fantasy storyline (a drama would make more sense, or a biopic). That’s pretty much all my point was. But perhaps I’m mistaken and the “you can do it” message is about making it big in Hollywood. If that’s the message, then I’m cringing on behalf of people who aren’t young and attractive white women.
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Oh come on. It can't be inspirational if it's a fictional character? That's ridiculous. Women all over the world burst into tears during the No Man's Land scene in Wonder Woman. Many of them didn't even realize why at first. They were seeing a female character take charge, ignore men's advice and fight for what was right. It was an incredibly cathartic moment for many, many viewers. If you don't find that a "you can do it" inspiration, you are dead inside.
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So let me get this straight. Everyone else in the world can say "you can do it," but not an actress portraying a fictional character. Not an actress who is living her dream, has risen up to the top of her profession, won an Oscar, wanted to direct a film and has, has increased her salary level to multi-millions (not that she wouldn't take less for a indie film important to her), has been an activist from the start but now has the notice, clout and influence strong enough that a bunch of alt-right anti-diversity "we don't want change" babies are pooping their pants cause the winds are blowing in a more inclusive direction and the wind escaping from their pants is meager sad wishing-for-what-used-to-be whining.

Yeah, I dunno, I think she should be able to say it. If she wants.

:lynda1:
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All of which just wraps back around to my point regardless of whether or not there are other sources that can be looked to for inspiration. Brie Larson isn't telling little girls that they can do stuff to piss off a bunch of conservative minded dudes and dudettes. She's telling them that because she wants them to believe they can do whatever they believe they can be... and if that happens to piss off those people she just doesn't care... which is no different really it seems from how much those people care about her oppinion anyway so basically... why should she even worry about what they think? The people putting up all those 'BRIE LARSON HAS RUINED THE MCU!!!!!!" youtube videos are doing so just to piss on a film they haven't even seen yet and so can't logically know whether or not Brie Larson has even ruined the Captain Marvel film, much less the entire Marvel Cinematic Universe.

It's politics, politics politics. America really hasn't grown that much at all since the old Democratic-Republicans/Federalist days. The party lines are different... but the behavior is the same. 'You think that one thing I don't think so FUCK YOU!'
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There's more than a little bit of this going on:

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Imagineer wrote:
5 years ago
There's more than a little bit of this going on:

So... If I'm understanding this right... these assholes with their Anti-Captain Marvel youtube crap are RAPING MY BRAIN!

No wonder I hate them so much.
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Hey guys...I thought we were done with this stuff? At least Tallyho suggested so. I for one have promised to be positive unless evidence proves otherwise.

I heard back from the Captain Marvel Challenge fundraiser in Pittsburgh - she's a well-meaning professional from a rich suburb, and her name is Larissa Russo. Like most of the 25 GoFundMes for this movie around the country, the money isn't coming fast enough and it's only about 20% funded. So the GoFundMe company themselves put $100 into each of these campaigns to boost them along.

Heroineburgh has made a contribution to the Pittsburgh GoFundMe and we're now listed on the site. If you feel so inclined to give specifically to the Pittsburgh challenge, please do so as that will help 198 young women go see this movie. Either that or give to whatever Challenge is located nearest your area (not sure if there are any fundraisers for this outside the United States).

Here's the site. Let's be positive and help this movie reach its target audience!

https://www.gofundme.com/pittsburgh-cap ... lchallenge
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Thanks, shevek, for pulling our focus back to the positive. It ain't easy :)
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Sure. Putting personal opinions aside it's nice to help someone local who has pure motives at heart and an admiration for superheroines (even if it's Bire Larson).

Here's our Twitter announcement. We also posted it on Facebook.

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Food for thought...

Was reading something within the last few days that they've re-run the numbers at the box office and pre-release sales/projections have dropped from $180 million to $100 million in just the past month. I wonder what could have brought about such a huge drop off, that seems really odd.
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It's just a bad winter.

January box office is off more than 15% from prior years, an eight-year low.
Presidents Day weekend is the worst in fifteen years.
The Lego Movie 2's opening weekend (Feb 8) was less than half the first film's (Feb 7) debut.

So I bet any new conservatism about Captain Marvel has more to do with the industry's nervousness about people's appetite for movies this winter than anything specific to Captain Marvel.

BTW The Hollywood Reporter says Captain Marvel is tracking $120 million, not $100 million.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/ ... ow-1187519
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RedMountain wrote:
5 years ago
Food for thought...

Was reading something within the last few days that they've re-run the numbers at the box office and pre-release sales/projections have dropped from $180 million to $100 million in just the past month. I wonder what could have brought about such a huge drop off, that seems really odd.
What you read is spin. The real deal with opening weekend box office tracking is as follows.

Captain Marvel Opening Mar 8 2019
boxofficepro long range tracking Jan 11 (8 weeks pre opening) est $140M+ in title, range: $140M to 180M in text section, $160M in chart
https://pro.boxoffice.com/long-range-tr ... in-marvel/

___________________________________________
boxofficepro long range tracking Feb 15 (3 weeks pre) est $140M+ in title, $160M in chart
https://pro.boxoffice.com/long-range-ca ... sing-link/

___________________________________________
Variety reporting studio tracking Feb 14 (3 weeks pre) est $100M+
Hollywood Reporter reporting studio tracking Feb 14 (3 weeks pre) est 100M+
https://variety.com/2019/film/news/capt ... 203139732/
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat- ... ut-1186612

___________________________________________
Variety and Hollywood Reporter are the two main Hollywood Industry trade magazines, are tight with the industry and report the Industry's own tracking stats for box office. The studio (3 weeks pre) is predicting $100M.

boxofficepro's site has their own tracking methods. boxofficepro did mention $180M as the high of a range. Youtubers and other sites using that number do so in a dishonest way. They should be using the $140M+ number. But they want clicks, and are pretending the $180M and $100M came from same tracking source so they can say look what a huge drop. If they were honest they'd say boxofficepro, 8 weeks pre and 3 weeks pre opening, is still predicting $140M+ opening weekend, while the studios first and only so far (3 weeks pre) tracking report is predicting $100M.

If what happened with Wonder Woman movie can be any sort of predictor, then real box office for CM will be higher than studio's current tracking, maybe will be around $130M to $140M. But this is just predicting, so who knows. And if early March weather is bad, cold, not nice like June 2017 for WW, could be close to $100M studio tracking.

So I just looked at Imagineer's linked HR article that does say CM tracking $120M+, this now 3 days after their CM tracking $100M+ article. Tracking is ever moving. We'll know better closer to opening Mar 8. One or two days before Wonder Woman opened, was when they guessed right! For WW, the studio was predicting $65M 3 weeks before opening, so $35M less than the $103 WW actually made. Which is why I guessed $130M to $140M above.

:lynda1:
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It always pays to go low with a prediction anyway as when it comes in over you can claim a runaway success and that generates its own hype and free publicity, and if it comes in at your low estimate you can say thats what we expected and its doing fine.
If they are pitching at $100m-$120m they are probably expecting $130-$140 and hoping for $150+
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It will be interesting to see either way, I know movies in general are down this year, the box office isn't off to a great start despite Aquaman carrying well into the new year. It's still showing on at least 2 screens at some of the theaters around me.
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theScribbler wrote:
5 years ago
RedMountain wrote:
5 years ago
Food for thought...

Was reading something within the last few days that they've re-run the numbers at the box office and pre-release sales/projections have dropped from $180 million to $100 million in just the past month. I wonder what could have brought about such a huge drop off, that seems really odd.
What you read is spin. The real deal with opening weekend box office tracking is as follows.
Hey Scribbler, now who's writing long essays? :) Just kidding.

But seriously, these tracking companies are kind of all over the place, and you're correct , the Youtubers are making quite a bit more of this than they should. This video by the industry-savvy Midnight's Edge (the same ones who explained why Star Trek Discovery is not canon) recently made a video which explains the complexity of the movie tracking services and nicely debunks this whole frenzy with accurate reporting. Unfortunately, they shoot down some of their credibility with me when they use a couple of brief screen shots of a headline from a white supremacist site (I really hope it wasn't on purpose, that they just grabbed the headline and didn't realize who the publisher was), and what's disturbing is that nobody has called them on it in the comments. So I suppose I will have to do that, and risk the wrath of the incels.



At this point, there's just so much vitriol over Captain Marvel it might be better to just calm down and see what the future brings rather than even bother to speculate. Anyway, Brie Larson offers enough opportunity for LOLs as it is :)

Meanwhile, our hometown heroine Larissa Russo is still not even halfway to her funding goal - I hope she makes it happen in time.
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Welp all the early noises I'm hearing from people have seen it are positive.

I'd be worried that the seas will rise from all the salt from all the people disappointed that it's probably good, but let's face it there's not that many of them.
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:lynda1: :ss:
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An observation with a disclaimer, I was not planning to see this movie.

The sides have been drawn. Larson obviously has attacked many critics as chauvinist and papers like the Guardian are doing the same.

So we can expect Rotten Tomatoes to have a high score from self assigned critics and low scores from the fans just like Discovery and DW.
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Dazzle1 wrote:
5 years ago
An observation with a disclaimer, I was not planning to see this movie.

The sides have been drawn. Larson obviously has attacked many critics as chauvinist and papers like the Guardian are doing the same.
Here's the thing.... WHAT CRITICS!? No one has f'king SEEN the film (until basically yesterday) so what f'king critics are you talking about that needed to be attacked as chauvinist asshats? Don't you f'king tell me those assholes on youtube aren't as stuck in their hard stance bias against the film as the Guardian is FOR it. Those dimwits who haven't seen the film and decided to shit on it ENDLESSLY on youtube and twitter for a whole bunch of minute details in a trailer? How is THAT any more reliable than the Guardian refusing to print any concerns? Those aren't critics Dazzle, you can't criticize a film based on a few three second sequences. EVERY film has three second out of context images in the trailer that may or may not be indicating inherent flaws or mastery in the film. MANY Marvel films have had weak trailers, yet only Captain Marvel's trailer was apparently worthy of ENDLESS 'criticism' before it ever came out!

If someone is attacking a film because the lead actress isn't smiling in a trailer then guess what? It was a sexist fucking reaction. Nobody shits on Captain America for not smiling in his damn trailers. Does he smile in the film OF COURSE, it just wasn't a good shot to put in for the atmosphere of a particular trailer. It isn't crazy to point out the insanity of the double standard there, nor to call out some of the more violent detractors in those 'not smiling... pass!' crowd as sexist. I've seen no less than four sexists you tube video titles polluting my youtube recommendations aimed at Captain Marvel in the past week alone. No other Marvel film has garnered this much fucking WHINING from the hard right man-babies on youtube before any of them have even had the chance to SEE it.

Go see it. Don't go see it, I don't care. If you DON'T go see it though, then this is probably the last we should hear from you on the subject. You don't get an opinion about something you haven't seen. Somehow I just bet all those manbabies on youtube who have pledged to boycott the film probably arenh't going to SHUT UP about their opinions after the film is released though?
So we can expect Rotten Tomatoes to have a high score from self assigned critics and low scores from the fans just like Discovery and DW.
Nice, so do you know when the next major terrorist attack is gonna be? With prophetic powers like this, you should apply for the CIA


Edit: This whole post came off a bit more angry in tone than I actually mean to attack YOU with. So I apologize for any offensive statements. I'm just getting REALLY sick of all the 'totally not sexist' PROPHETS who seem to really know exactly what kind of film Captain Marvel is going to be and boycotting it over the inherent sexism they've used their powers of future sight to divine for us. I can't wait for this damn movie to just drop so we can know one way or the other.

So I'd just like to take this moment to THANK all the asshole youtubers and all those who feel women have to be smiling in their movie trailers. All you fine folks who feel I should care what Brie Larson thinks about male or female viewers and opinions. THANK YOU for destroying any excitement I could possibly glean from my favorite comic book character getting a film. You're all just wonderful people looking out for my well being, no way I could have just come to my own opinions about the film after I got the chance to actually SEE it.

End of Rant.
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Feminia:

You are missing the point. First the reason I am not seeing the movie is because I am into D.C not Marvel.

But I invite you to listen to a few of her interviews and read today's Guardian.

But Larsen, the Star of Discovery and Jodie Whittaker have been attacking You Tube reviewers and playing the sex card.

Now compare this to Gal Gadot who produced a good Wonder Woman and ignored the critics

But some of these You Tubes are far more credible than someone assigned to review it because of their agenda

One of the reviewers on RT admitted she had never watched Doctor Who before Whittaker and only cared that the doctor was now a woman, that person should not considered a relliable person

Most of the critique for discovery has been the actress who is the star can't act and it has not followed ST cannon. My problem is they had Michelle Yeoh who can act, could do better than Captain Kirk action scenes and they did not use her correctly as the main star
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I'm finding this thread exhausting. And yes, at this point, I'm just hoping for the movie to drop and be good and that we can discuss its values in terms of things like, oh, I don't know, cinematography, acting, plot, story structure in terms of how it fits into the MCU. Insights about character arc rather than sexual politics would be such a relief, I think I'd weep with joy. Just sayin'.

Everyone one here has a right to an opinion and wow, yes, there's been more of a storm surrounding this movie than almost any other I can think of in recent memory, but can we take a breath and try to enjoy, when it drops, what is probably yet another wonderfully-made Marvel film for what it is? Please?!
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Dazzle1 wrote:
5 years ago
...Larson obviously has attacked many critics as chauvinist...
Flat out 1000% untrue. Congrats on buying into the anti-Brie disinformation campaign.
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Dazzle1 wrote:
5 years ago
Feminia:

But Larsen, the Star of Discovery and Jodie Whittaker have been attacking You Tube reviewers and playing the sex card.
That's because 90% of those youtubers are idiots whose videos couldn't be more obviously an agenda driven sexist campaign even if they admitted it outright. They aren't talking to the 10% of amateur youtube critics who have concerns about things that are actually relevant to the movie. Their talking about the other 90% who are FURIOUSLY shoveling coal into the 'hate Captain Marvel film because Brie Larson doesn't smile in the trailer and said she doesn't care if I think she should smile!' train.
But some of these You Tubes are far more credible than someone assigned to review it because of their agenda
..............................................................................................................................................................................................................................

I... I can't even... Youtube is literally an agenda whirlwind. In my entire life I've yet to see a youtube video that is agenda free that isn't a comedy shot of a Guinean pig reacting to things over dramatic musical overtones. If you honestly believe these youtubers are a great source of unbiased news we have nothing more to talk about because you and I are on entirely separate wavelengths.
One of the reviewers on RT admitted she had never watched Doctor Who before Whittaker and only cared that the doctor was now a woman, that person should not considered a reliable person
OH MY GOD! Doctor who pulling in viewers from outside the core fanbase!? WHATS THE WORLD COMING TO! Don't people know boys can't play with Barbies and girls aren't allowed to touch G.I. JOES!
Most of the critique for discovery has been the actress who is the star can't act and it has not followed ST cannon. My problem is they had Michelle Yeoh who can act, could do better than Captain Kirk action scenes and they did not use her correctly as the main star
I have no opinion on this, I won't pay for a streaming service for a single show.
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Dazzle1 wrote:
5 years ago
So we can expect Rotten Tomatoes to have a high score from self assigned critics and low scores from the fans just like Discovery and DW.
What sort of fans obsessively go to review aggregate sites to shit on movies?

No part of being a fan means giving something a zero.
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Dogfish wrote:
5 years ago
Dazzle1 wrote:
5 years ago
So we can expect Rotten Tomatoes to have a high score from self assigned critics and low scores from the fans just like Discovery and DW.
What sort of fans obsessively go to review aggregate sites to shit on movies?
Well, at this point, nearly 35,000 of them who have dropped Captain Marvel's "want to see" rate down to a stunningly low 33%.

Don't kill the messenger please :)

In the meantime, our hometown heroine Larissa is less than halfway to her GoFundMe goal with under 2 weeks left.

P.S. Somebody just posted an entire Captain Marvel plot synopsis on Reddit using information that was supposedly gleaned from the Chinese
social media service Douban. Not sure how accurate that could be.
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