Supergirl Season Four

[Abductorenmadrid]

Holy forking shirtballz, they really went to town on the chain work, didn't they!

[scwank]

Holy forking shirtballz, they really went to town on the chain work, didn't they!

Yes they did. On a side note, Melisssa really sold this well. Her fear when she realized she was largely depowered and outnumbered was palpable. She was very expressive, facially.

Screen Shot 2018-11-27 at 12.53.13 PM.png (4.83 MiB) Viewed 5342 times

[DrDominator9]

Turned out that it wasn't Nth metal. It didn't have to be. But I don't want to spoil things for those who haven't seen it yet.

[shevek]

Hell yeah, this was a good episode. Peril for Supergirl. She's in costume constantly in this one, and looks gorgeous.
Lots of violence by Manchester and others. Preachiness mostly kept to a minimum. Suspenseful bomb plot (like the other billion CW bomb plots).

But there was also a good amount of dramatic filler. Just who the hell is this snotty kid who takes up half the episode exploring philosophical matters about medical ethics with Lena? His acting falls a bit flat and he seems like just a one-note nihilistic millennial whiner - not sure why Lena is so inspired by him, because he has little to teach a genius such as her.

And why does Manchester even have to turn Supergirl in to the Children of Liberty in order to get a clear shot at the Agent? If he's as bad as we think he is, why would he take the Children's word at face value and trust them to keep the bargain anyway? He should have just gone in guns blazing.

But it was mostly worthwhile for the reasons first mentioned. So I enjoyed it, even if I wanted to fast-forward through the Lena parts.

However, I want to address Geeky over what he thinks is a plot hole. Geeky - the fact that not a lot of aliens are that powerful isn't a big plot hole. Truth is, we have no idea how many aliens are on Earth, in total, or what powers they might be hiding, because the show doesn't give us a tally or show us. So maybe some of them ARE very powerful, and thus a threat. And here's my problem with the alien conceit: we're just NOT shown enough about them to get a concrete idea.

The show uses a Shelley Island as a stand-in for Ellis Island (possibly named after Mary Shelley, inventrix of science-fiction?). This is an obvious allegory for the current situation with immigrants coming through our southern border. But we don't know anything about these aliens. First of all, why are they using an *island* for intake in the first place? THESE ALIENS COME FROM SPACE, and yet the show barely acts as if outer space exists. The aliens must be arriving in spaceships, yet they are not docking at a space station or a spaceport? If Marsdin shut down the alien welcome program, did the spaceships suddenly stop coming? If so, why did they stop, because it's not like alien spaceships have some kind of obligation to obey U.S. laws or something. Why don't we see any of these spaceships? Why isn't the US government confiscating these spaceships and retro-engineering technology from them? There are so many obvious pieces of this puzzle that we never see, and all that we know is there's a guy with spikes, there's a guy who can set things on fire, there's a woman who can shapeshift and so on. We're only getting the bare minimum we need for the story to keep using "aliens" as the catalyst for dramatic conflict, and nothing more. I find it difficult to really care about these aliens when they are mostly a MacGuffin to push the plot along.

How's that for a big plot hole?

[scwank]

The whole alien angle is my biggest gripe with the show, and not because of any offense taken to the political issues that get brought up here in seemingly every post. For me, it has more to do with the fact that it makes Supergirl a bit more ordinary. She is just one of several/many potentially superpowered aliens running around. The difference is she has decided to use her powers to help others, and she wears a costume. I wish she was a bit more unique. I'm not well-versed in the comics, so maybe that's the case there, too, but as someone who was aware of Supergirl only generally before the show, I went into it expecting her to be more special, from a power perspective.

For the same reason, when I read fiction here at this site, I've always gravitated toward stories where the heroine is the only "super" in the world, and not one of many heroes running around. I want my heroine to be unique, and a subject of awe and wonder.

[Bert]

I'm fine with aliens on earth, but with this year's ongoing aliens as refugees storyline, Supergirl isn't fighting any powerful aliens because suddenly they're all sympathetic characters. The show has taken a dramatic shift away from action. Compare the first seven episodes of season 1 with the first seven of season 4. Season 1 had Supergirl in serious, consequential battles with Vartox (2), Her aunt, Reactron (3), Red Tornado and Livewire. These were serious fights with good action and real peril. Now, seven episodes into season 7, there hasn't been a single good fight scene. This is not chance, this is purposeful. I don't know what the reason is. Maybe fight scenes are too expensive. Maybe the studio requested less violence. Whatever the reason, the show is a shadow of its earlier self. Personally I think the fourth season is just being made to enable syndication and they are trying to do it as inexpensively as possible. Everyone is just phoning it in because ratings don't matter anymore and they just need to finish the season before moving on.

[GeekyPornCritic]

I'm fine with aliens on earth, but with this year's ongoing aliens as refugees storyline, Supergirl isn't fighting any powerful aliens because suddenly they're all sympathetic characters. The show has taken a dramatic shift away from action. Compare the first seven episodes of season 1 with the first seven of season 4. Season 1 had Supergirl in serious, consequential battles with Vartox (2), Her aunt, Reactron (3), Red Tornado and Livewire. These were serious fights with good action and real peril. Now, seven episodes into season 7, there hasn't been a single good fight scene. This is not chance, this is purposeful. I don't know what the reason is. Maybe fight scenes are too expensive. Maybe the studio requested less violence. Whatever the reason, the show is a shadow of its earlier self. Personally I think the fourth season is just being made to enable syndication and they are trying to do it as inexpensively as possible. Everyone is just phoning it in because ratings don't matter anymore and they just need to finish the season before moving on.

They teased a major fight with Jenson, but it never happen. He could have been a major threat for a few episodes and they could have ended in a good fight scene. Supergirl would need help to fight an overpowered Jenson.

[DrDominator9]

There is a classic TV station out of New Jersey that reruns the Wonder Woman series every Saturday night. Currently they are in the middle of Season Three. Let me tell you, it's the dregs! Carter is barely in the costume more than a few minutes per show and she's facing off against low level goons and the action shots are merely trampoline shots of her jumping, running along a building roof or lassoing some hood in a suit.

The Supergirl tv show has its issues, sure, but it's still far better than what we had in Season Three of that WW show in the 70s. SG TV season three was incredible and far superior to WW 3 by virtually any standard.

SG Season Four needs work but I think we'll look back on this series overall with gratitude... especially if it generates even half the number of new generation SHIP enthusiasts I suspect it will.

[stationk]

Holy forking shirtballz, they really went to town on the chain work, didn't they!

Yes they did. On a side note, Melisssa really sold this well. Her fear when she realized she was largely depowered and outnumbered was palpable. She was very expressive, facially.

Screen Shot 2018-11-27 at 12.53.13 PM.png

I find it funny that they really like to cover her up in these scenes.

[Bert]

There is a classic TV station out of New Jersey that reruns the Wonder Woman series every Saturday night. Currently they are in the middle of Season Three. Let me tell you, it's the dregs! Carter is barely in the costume more than a few minutes per show and she's facing off against low level goons and the action shots are merely trampoline shots of her jumping, running along a building roof or lassoing some hood in a suit.

The Supergirl tv show has its issues, sure, but it's still far better than what we had in Season Three of that WW show in the 70s. SG TV season three was incredible and far superior to WW 3 by virtually any standard.

SG Season Four needs work but I think we'll look back on this series overall with gratitude... especially if it generates even half the number of new generation SHIP enthusiasts I suspect it will.

Carter's WW was never much of a show, especially after season 1. Sadly, so far in season 4 of Supergirl things haven't been much better. Doesn't mean I want it to end, but I'm really disappointed so far this year.

[bushwackerbob]

It really is unfair to compare a TV show from the seventies to something on the air today. Television is so different today compared to back then in terms of storytelling, writing, plotting, character development, etc. If we go back to the time machine to the seventies, you will find many shows that have not aged well by today's standards. There were a lot of shows in that era whose main goal was lighthearted entertainment starring beautiful women running around in various bits of clothing. It was television that provided people an escape from real world problems instead of television shows that condescended to "educate us" about our nation's ills. I think it is pretty remarkable that forty years later, Lynda Carter's Wonder Woman is still to some degree relevant in our cannon of superheroines, however at the same time I seriously doubt forty years from today that people will even remember Melissa Benoit's Supergirl, I just do not see that portrayal resonating with public at large in the same way Lynda carter's Wonder Woman has.

[Visitor]

You have to look at how few shows featured a female action star that fought.

1960s - Cathy Gale, Emma Peel, Tara King in The Avengers, Batgirl in Batman, April Dancer in The Girl From U.N.C.L.E.
1970s - Jamie Sommers in The Bionic Woman, Wonder Woman in Wonder Woman, Charlie's Angels, Electra Woman and Dyna Girl in Krofft Super Show

After that we had a drought on television outside of police and detective dramas although there were some in the movies. You pretty much had to look at animation and those were made for children.

[bushwackerbob]

Anyone who is looking for a good book to read about the television industry should check out "The Revolution Was Televised" by Alan Sepinwall. the book is about twelve groundbreaking dramas that changed television. I m reading the book now and it gives a fascinating and detailed analysis of how those shows broke the mold and raised the bar for what is considered quality drama. It really hammers home how much television has evolved from the seventies to today.

[brdiy]

Carter's WW was never much of a show, especially after season 1. Sadly, so far in season 4 of Supergirl things haven't been much better. Doesn't mean I want it to end, but I'm really disappointed so far this year.

I've stopped watching the whole episodes. I am just on the lookout for the interesting scenes.

[GeekyPornCritic]

Do you know what is so ironic about Ben Lockwood/Agent of Liberty? He complained about aliens are stealing jobs. However, he put in the effort to find a new job without realizing it. His political stance landed him a TV show. Let that sink in a minute.

[shevek]

Do you know what is so ironic about Ben Lockwood/Agent of Liberty? He complained about aliens are stealing jobs. However, he put in the effort to find a new job without realizing it. His political stance landed him a TV show. Let that sink in a minute.

It didn't have to sink in at all.

Because what's ever more ironic is that while these progressive writers are trying so hard to mirror the real political situation as THEY see it (immigrants are always angelic, right-wing pundits are always the white-nationalist Nazi devils)...what they're actually doing is reflecting the world as nuanced and balanced as it REALLY IS. A world where conservative, libertarian and centrist media pundits are popular and treated like celebrities with all their faults forgiven, while the far-left tends to crucify its own, and everyone else, with tests of ideological purity. And a world where immigrants (in this case, aliens) do indeed pose various dangers (not just job stealing).

[dajinx1]

Holy forking shirtballz, they really went to town on the chain work, didn't they!

Yes they did. On a side note, Melisssa really sold this well. Her fear when she realized she was largely depowered and outnumbered was palpable. She was very expressive, facially.

Screen Shot 2018-11-27 at 12.53.13 PM.png

I find it funny that they really like to cover her up in these scenes.

I agree they go out of their way to cover her up to the point that it kind of messes up the flow of a scene and shots. It's like they're ashamed to shoot the costume.

[brdiy]

^in total contrast to season 1!

*sigh*

[GeekyPornCritic]

I liked tonight's episode, but it was not as good as episode seven. The ending is the best part, and it raises a few questions. Since aliens are not people by law, Agent of Liberty did not violate anyone's rights. Aliens are not protected by law. Will Reactron be released from prison?

[vnv7272]

They totally screwed the science of nth metal. unbreakable, unless slammed against floor where all other metal is fine.

[ksire_99]

I was/am writing a SG story in which she is encapsulated in molten Nth metal. I have her getting out another way, but the show had all of 30 seconds to spend on her getting loose, so I am not going to be too critical.

This is especially since I have been critical of the show by not letting her to use her vast powers correctly as her ass is being handed to her. Then needing someone (usually her 'big' earth sister) to save her. I am going to applaud the writers allowing Supergirl to use her amazingly wide ranging powers to get out of the trap on her own.

[GeekyPornCritic]

I have a MAJOR problem at the end of the episode. So the DEO doesn't know Supergirl is Kara Danvers? If memory serves me, the DEO under the real Hank Henshaw confronted Dr. Danvers for having an alien in his house aka Kara Danvers. She should be on file in the DEO's database.

[Bert]

At this point finding plot holes in Supergirl is like spotting Donald Trump lies - they are so plentiful that enumerating them is a Sisyphean task. Of far greater concern to me is that Supergirl hasn't actually been involved in a fight yet this season. What the hell is up with that? Eight episodes in and no fights doesn't happen by accident. it's obviously intentional. I really would like to know the reason. The show is killing me now with wasted potential.

[DrDominator9]

At this point finding plot holes in Supergirl is like spotting Donald Trump lies - they are so plentiful that enumerating them is a Sisyphean task. Of far greater concern to me is that Supergirl hasn't actually been involved in a fight yet this season. What the hell is up with that? Eight episodes in and no fights doesn't happen by accident. it's obviously intentional. I really would like to know the reason. The show is killing me now with wasted potential.

What do you mean no fights? She fought a real-life alien dragon and lost!

Actually there have been quick fights this season, with some incidental Parasite fisticuffs and such, but you're right, no hugely dramatic one on one fights that I recall.

I did like that little device that Manchester Black used on her in yesterday's episode. They're using a variety of non-kryptonite devices which means they're trying to be inventive which is good.

[Visitor]

I'm hoping the diminished role for Supergirl is just because they needed the time for the Elseworlds Crossover and after next week they increase her role and peril. Especially since she is playing two characters this season. We should be getting more of her and not less.

[bushwackerbob]

I am getting a kick out of Bruce Boxleitner's President Baker on Supergirl. His portrayal of an approval ratings obsessed politician is spot on. I wonder how he and Marsden ended up on the same ticket.

[GeekyPornCritic]

I am getting a kick out of Bruce Boxleitner's President Baker on Supergirl. His portrayal of an approval ratings obsessed politician is spot on. I wonder how he and Marsden ended up on the same ticket.

Agent Liberty and President Baker bring up a fair point about Supergirl's secret identity. Everyone knows who the president is. He is their leader and makes major decisions that may affect the entire country. Why should Supergirl's identity be a secret? What makes her above the law and our president?

Supergirl also has a weak argument about protecting her family and friends. She does not have secret service. I also highly doubt President Baker would provide secret service for her family. However, mayors, governors, and other officials do not have special services for their families.

How is she a government employee without rights? Wait Brainy is also an employee without rights.......

[Visitor]

Agent Liberty and President Baker bring up a fair point about Supergirl's secret identity. Everyone knows who the president is. He is their leader and makes major decisions that may affect the entire country. Why should Supergirl's identity be a secret? What makes her above the law and our president?

Supergirl also has a weak argument about protecting her family and friends. She does not have secret service. I also highly doubt President Baker would provide secret service for her family. However, mayors, governors, and other officials do not have special services for their families.

How is she a government employee without rights? Wait Brainy is also an employee without rights.......

Government employees in law enforcement have some privacy rights in order to protect them and their families from being retaliated against by those they stop. Some jurisdictions even extend some of these rights to elected officials. The most common protection is not making home addresses known although that's easier to find with the Internet.

[bushwackerbob]

It is almost as if we are seeing two sides of the same coin in that in the series pilot, Kara comes out as a superheroine in order to save her sister whereas in this past episode she is asked to reveal her identity and potentially compromise her loved ones safety. I suppose you can make the argument for the President's position if you reference the Seal team that took out Bin laden. Of course the government knows their identities but they are not known to the public (except for that one guy who broke ranks and came forward) preventing them or their families from becoming a target for retribution. My common sense says to me to keep the secret identity private, but I cannot come up with a legal reason why she should not have to declare her secret identity.

[Abductorenmadrid]

I've not caught up with the latest episode yet but this seems an interesting conundrum. Her independence and neutrality is something I have nurtured in my own SG stories for a while now and has become increasingly relevant in the latest of my series. Sure, for the plot it means this interesting entanglement that the show's SG is running into is less likely to happen but the consequences of my version's hands-off approach give me different plot openings to work with.

Regarding being an employee, in the UK at least a good test of whether someone is an employee is to confirm who is paying them. Are they saying SG gets paid, and if so, into which account - is there an account out there in Supergirl's name? Or is it a cash only gig? Just wondering!

AEM

[infogeek247]

That is true, she is not an employee. She is a volunteer. If they knew who Kara was, there would be no protection for her family.

[DrDominator9]

Hmmm. I suppose even a volunteer could be referred to as an "employee" and called out for problems when they do not adhere to an established set of rules and thus fired for cause. It poses an interesting question.

My guess is that she's getting paid for both jobs, otherwise how could she afford that huge apartment in the middle of National City?

[infogeek247]

Does that mean that Brainy has to appear as "himself"? as what he has now is a secret ID?

[bushwackerbob]

It does bring up an interesting question of whether she is employed by the DEO or whether she is an independent contractor working with the DEO. I would think that the fact that Kara presumably has access to classified information that is not available to civilians would classify her as an employee of the federal government, because otherwise it would be hard to believe that she would be allowed unfettered access into the halls of the DEO.

[infogeek247]

True, but Jjon came in on a Visitor pass.

The question is, with the President asking her to "unmask", will he decree that any alien visitor to the DEO has to unmask? Or what if an ailen was working for the DEO?

[GeekyPornCritic]

You are all forgetting that Supergirl is an alien. Don't like her cute looks fool you! President Baker says aliens do not have rights. So Supergirl does not have the legal right to seal her identity. She may not get paid minimum wage. She has no rights.

The DEO was a secret organization under the federal government that kept Supergirl's identity and employment a secret. However, the DEO has been exposed to the public. It is not a secret anymore, and it acts more like a military or police force against aliens, metahumans, and threats against peaceful aliens.

Since aliens do not have rights, then the DEO may stop all activities related to hate crimes and terriosm against aliens. We must wait and see.

[infogeek247]

I see what you are saying. It does seem that the new president is a bit more Anti-alien, as is Alex' s superior.

If the DEO is ordered to suspend it's protective activities, it could lead to interesting events.

SG could work and help JJon. I do not see anyone arresting her for saving a train as it is about to go over a cliff. All this could change when a "home-grown" threat comes that only SG et al can handle. Menagerie is coming, part of Manchester's Elite.

And Hatred spreads... and changes. Aliens one day, another group another.

[bushwackerbob]

My next question would be regarding the details of Kara's adoption. If the Danvers parents went through the proper procedures and signed the appropriate documents for orphaned Kara, then is Kara Danvers a legal citizen? I know that would solve Kara Danvers problem but would still be a problem for Kara Zor-El.

[infogeek247]

True. Kara is legal. But SG is an alien. It would be a legal court case, but that in itself would release the secret.

The writers have something planned.

[GeekyPornCritic]

Kara Davners is not a legal citizen. You cannot legally falsify documents to make Kara Danvers legal. She is not a real person by law. She was not born on Earth or the United States of America. The Danvers' actions are consist of creating a false identity.

I support Agent Liberty and the right for Human Rights!

[infogeek247]

I cannot support a terrorist.

[bushwackerbob]

Kara Davners is not a legal citizen. You cannot legally falsify documents to make Kara Danvers legal. She is not a real person by law. She was not born on Earth or the United States of America. The Danvers' actions are consist of creating a false identity.

I support Agent Liberty and the right for Human Rights!

Kara was an orphan found abandoned here on Earth. I could be wrong but I do not believe that the Danvers knew of her origins when she was discovered. Neither you or I know the details of her adoption, of whether any documents were falsified in order to obtain the adoption, that is pure speculation on both of our parts, but judging from those flashback episodes they have shown, it would seem to me that they would want the adoption to be perfectly legitimate and legal in case there in case there was any scrutiny later on.

[Abductorenmadrid]

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter I guess. But, let's be honest now - if there was an influx of aliens coming into our real world right now and they had abilities beyond our own what do you think is more likely ... that "our" nation (whichever one you live in) would turn them away and let them fall into "enemy" hands? Or is it more likely you'd want to welcome them and keep them near? Governments of the world would be clamoring for technology knowledge, medical knowledge, military prowess and so on and regardless of any promises and assurances there would be distrust as to whether or not this knowledge would be shared.


This whole SG relationship with the government, being bullied by Alex's new boss and so on is coming to a head. Perhaps that is the plot purpose of the Russian SG? If Kara is being sucked into the governmental vortex perhaps the Russian SG is some kind of "punishment" plot device for her oversight and not remaining neutral, instead being a pawn.

Oh, and ... did anyone get a sort of creeped out feeling from SGs greeting message on Shelly Island. For whatever reason that whole enthusiastic welcome just screamed danger at me. "Welcome To Auschwitz ... we know you have come a long way but soon you'll get a nice hot meal and be reunited with your valuable possessions, but first a shower, and don't worry about the guards, they are there for your protection!"

[GeekyPornCritic]

Kara Davners is not a legal citizen. You cannot legally falsify documents to make Kara Danvers legal. She is not a real person by law. She was not born on Earth or the United States of America. The Danvers' actions are consist of creating a false identity.

I support Agent Liberty and the right for Human Rights!

Kara was an orphan found abandoned here on Earth. I could be wrong but I do not believe that the Danvers knew of her origins when she was discovered. Neither you or I know the details of her adoption, of whether any documents were falsified in order to obtain the adoption, that is pure speculation on both of our parts, but judging from those flashback episodes they have shown, it would seem to me that they would want the adoption to be perfectly legitimate and legal in case there in case there was any scrutiny later on.

The Danvers are aware of her origins since they adopted her. She was 14 years old when she escaped the Phantom Zone, and Superman quickly found her after her pod crashed. Remember in season one, Superman gives Kara to the Danvers. They know all about her origins. Then, they made false records of her life. Supergirl lies to Cat Grant about her elementary school teachers. She never went to elementary school.

Later, Dr. Danvers made her glasses with lead to weaken her version to a human's level when she wears them. Alex knows she is Superman's cousin from day one.

I am going to pause my season one review and write an article on Supergirl's legal issues.

[shevek]

I haven't watched this week's episode yet, but it's more than just Supergirl's legal issues. It would be the legal issue of any alien who is on Earth, and remember that would include J'onn and Vril (Brainy). It looks like, as non-humans and therefore non-persons, alien races would not even have the same
legal rights as the lowliest human illegal immigrant from another country. And it would also seem that would be regarded by a great deal of people as unfair, since the aliens are mostly humanoid and certainly highly sentient..so they would naturally deserve the same right as humans. The only logical
thing to do would be to form an Alien Rights advocacy organization, like an extraterrestrial version of the NAACP.

And Abductorenmadrid is correct - the moment that Earthlings knew aliens even existed, there would be an incredible scramble for knowledge about technology, culture, science, language and much more (it would make the 'Scramble for Africa' look like child's play). The fact that aliens of other worlds even exist would be a Carl Sagan-level game-changer for all of humanity (which was why Stargate avoided the whole issue by keeping aliens like Teal'c secret from Earth's populace, remember?). Once again, as I've said, if aliens are coming to Earth on translight ships, it would seem hard to believe that within a very short time, Earth scientists wouldn't have reverse-engineered the technology, and Earth would be launching ships to the stars for at least exploratory missions, if not conquering ones (similar to when Zefram Cochrane secretly encountered the Vulcans in Star Trek and built the stardrive, and then when Earth went to the stars, they immediately bumped into the Vulcans anyway).

Again, the huge plot hole exists: WHERE ARE THE SHIPS THAT BROUGHT THESE ALIENS TO EARTH? And what is the reason they are all here, anyway? What, or whom, are they fleeing from, as refugees? If these questions are never answered, the whole universe they created doesn't make any sense.

P.S. The Supergirl greeting did seem a little sinister but it wasn't really reminiscent of Auschwitz per se. It was a reference to Ellis Island, plain and simple, but filtered through the Orwellian lens of Big Sister reciting propaganda on a telescreen. It was actually very zeitgeisty and appropriate, by attributing to Supergirl the smiling happy face of government control (the nanny state knows what's best for you). Which is the kind of thing Ben Lockwood as Agent Liberty is fighting against..even if it does come out with a xenophobic tinge.

Alright....time to catch up on the CW stuff tonight, before all the hubbub of Comicon this weekend.

[GeekyPornCritic]

You need to watch the episode. I don't think the public believes it's unfair to treat aliens lower than human illegal immigrants. My fellow Children of Liberty has a surprise for you! I'm so proud of Agent Liberty. He is STRONG (Trump's tone of voice, imagine it!).

I think some of the aliens are from Fort Rozz. Remember the teacher from season one? He was a drug dealer sentenced by Kara's mother, and changed his life after Fort Rozz crashed on Earth. Some Aliens were here before Supergirl.

[shevek]

S4 E8 Bunker Hill

2 things:

1) It would have been hilarious if during J'onn's first mental contact with Manchester..he should have said: "Manchester! You have so much to answer for!" Or maybe I'm just too big of a Smiths groupie.

2) I wondered this whole time why J'onn's mental powers haven't been put to work trying to determine Agent Liberty's identity. Instead of Alex trying to interrogate the Children, they could have just had J'onn read their minds. They would have gotten Lockwood's identity, Supergirl would have swooped in and captured, Manchester would have been left standing there with his mouth open, and Bob's your uncle.

With this episode, the preachy progressivism of this show takes an interesting turn by trying to show what a 'terrible' world it might be if aliens weren't considered worth of citizenship (i.e. if there were immigration restrictions). We all know how much the progressives love to wring their hands about the populism sweeping the Western world, which seems to go hand in hand with the right-wing upsurge, with anti-immigrant xenophobia, and with activist sentiment that expresses almost the exact opposite of the kind of world the hard left (termed by Manchester as the "intolerant left", which would like nothing better than to wipe out every single traditionalist thought anyone could have) envisions as a democratic-socialist utopia (the $40 trillion kind that Ocasio-Cortez has no idea how to pay for).

That's what this episode is going for. Though you (Geeky Porn Critic) might be an active supporter of Agent Liberty's cause, there's no way that the writers of this show are. What they're attempting is to demonstrate a display of the 'ugliness' of what populism looks like, thinking that people will recoil from the sight of it and run the other way. If your feelings are any indication, maybe they're a bit off the mark. The situation with Lockwood being led away to lock up while people chant on the other side of the fence is actually somewhat similar to what went on with Tommy Robinson (our UK friends can help let me know if the analogy makes sense) who expressed a similar kind of populist / nativist anti-immigrant sentiment compared to what Lockwood did.

The peril in this episode? A little bit of alien moondust that irritates Supergirl's insides, and an Nth Metal liquid that hardens around her, compelling her to propel her flight so forcefully that she lifts up the whole factory just to break free. It's OK but it's no great shakes. Much of the episode does show her in costume, but not doing anything powerful, she's just basically talking a lot with her DEO friends.

As far as the bit with the President commanding Supergirl to reveal her identity, I don't even know what that's supposed to accomplish or why the DEO suddenly needs to display maximum 'transparency' just because a known terrorist who got arrested made a claim about Supergirl's identity in the news media. But I guess if it's placed there just to show how fickle, unprincipled and poll-driven politicians can be, they proved their point.

For those who haven't investigated it yet - Earth-90 is the Earth of the 1990 Flash TV show, which is why we see John Wesley Shipp in the Flash costume..and a bunch of heroes defeated and lying dead or unconscious (e.g. Stargirl, The Ray, Green Arrow, Captain Cold, Hawkman etc.).
The Agent Liberty arc is taking a break for the Elseworlds crossover. Looking forward to that.

[infogeek247]

Possibly a new subject, the Soviets Supergirl, was she seen after episode 5? I no during the kryptonite atmosphere she was kept in a tube.

[Bert]

What they're attempting is to demonstrate a display of the 'ugliness' of what populism looks like, thinking that people will recoil from the sight of it and run the other way.

In the seventies, the revolutionary show All in the Family introduced Archie Bunker to the world. Archie was a racist boor who existed to be mocked and proven wrong. Unexpectedly to the writers, many viewers tuned in because they related to Archie and shared his views.

The fact that audiences are not repulsed by Archie Bunker, or Donald Trump, isn't something to celebrate. Shevek, I largely avoid engaging with you because your monumental output on this forum is just too much work to refute, but many of your thoughts on politics and social issues are obnoxious and nasty. It would be great if comments on things like the heavy-handed messaging on Supergirl could be discussed without it devolving into political screeds and ideological proselytizing.

[shevek]

Bert, I think you vastly misunderstand what I'm trying to say when I comment on Supergirl's heavy-handed messaging, which we both agree is there.
I repeat, we *both* agree it's heavy-handed, right?

When you mention Archie Bunker (and I watched many episodes of that as a child, not to mention a few of the successor show, 'Archie's Place'), you say that the creators of the show (Norman Lear etc) were forward-thinking (i.e. progressive) for their time - although now in Current Year we would classify their views (which were actually pretty basic and well-defined, like equality for race and gender and sexual orientation) as mainstream liberal. And that even though they were trying to show the bigoted nature of Archie's beliefs, that a surprisingly large number of people actually identified with him (much in the way they identified with Roseanne more recently, which is the real reason the progressives took her off the air). Just in the same way that many viewers who watch Supergirl might identify with Ben Lockwood/Agent of Liberty. So I believe we agree on that, as well.

Furthermore (and I have said this in the past), my views are essentially those of a mainstream, left-of-center liberal, with maybe a few libertarian streaks. My views are not extreme or 'obnoxious'. And if I'm trying to 'prosleytize', it's only to show what I oppose. And what I oppose, generally, is extremism. Extremism of all kinds leads to the sort of refusal to compromise, the sort of division that we see now in the Western world among political stripes, among 'tribes' on the Internet, as it were. So, I oppose far-left extremism (the kind that censors and shuts down thought via entertainment and social media and academia). This is actually mentioned in the episode by Manchester as the 'intolerant left'. There are a lot of aspects of the 'intolerant left' showing up in British politics, from what I understand (and our UK posters can correct me if I'm wrong), which might be why they picked Manchester as its representation in the show. This extremism is the kind that constantly injects the heavy-handed messages into Supergirl. If we both agree that the preachy nature of that show (irrespective of its other great qualities, such as Melissa and her costume) is its worst quality, then we're on the same page about that, too, I would think.

But I also oppose far-right extremism. I know people who were critically wounded or personally affected in the Pittsburgh shooting, which happened only a few blocks from where I was at the time. There's no room for anti-Semitism or for racism in my worldview, no room for any kind of belief that ethnic groups are *genetically* superior to other ethnic groups in any way. I also oppose religious extremism. To me, there's no excuse for violence and hatred based on scientifically unprovable theological belief, the kind that is unfortunately practiced by a few million hardcore extremists, yet tacitly also supported by their religious co-adherents (and no, I'm not just talking about Islam, either. Catholicism, Protestant fundamentalism, Hinduism and even Buddhism and Shintoism all feed hate philosophies in their respective spheres of influence).

So now that you know where I stand - which is more or less in the middle but leaning to the left - let's proceed to your point that I'm somehow 'celebrating' the fact that some viewers are identifying with Agent Liberty. I'm not celebrating it. I'm simply acknowledging it. If anyone is 'celebrating' it, that would be Geeky Porn Critic, although I'm not berating him for doing that, that's his prerogative. But what I'm doing it is simply noting the fact. Just like I am noting the fact that populism exists. Just because I mention the existence of Tommy Robinson and his movement doesn't mean I agree with what he says or stands for. I am simply mentioning him, and asking UK posters if the analogy between Ben & Tommy is accurate.

So I'm not sure we differ on much of anything, other than perhaps the way things are being said. Perhaps that's a factor of the inability of text on the Internet to convey subtleties (or my inability to do so)? Not sure. I think maybe the only area in which we might disagree is about the populism itself.
To me, populism isn't essentially 'far-right'. Fascism and Nazism is what is actually far-right. What populism is, is reactionary. When you move too far to the left, creating consequences (such as the unelected elitism of the EU leaders, and the carte-blanche to migrants that Merkel gave), then you get an equal and opposite reaction from the populace to correct the swing and bring it back to the middle. A middle-of-the-road approach to immigration, for example, is one that is thoughtful and rational, based on well-thought-out economic policy, not based on feelings (on the one side) or hatred (on the other), since both the feelings and the hatred come from what people now call 'identity politics' - what is good for immutable 'tribes' (of whatever stripe) rather than what is good for the well-being of citizens overall and the well-being of nations as a whole.

If we both agree that the politics is 'heavy-handed' on Supergirl, then we also both agree on exactly what kind of politics the show is trying to convey, and we can also agree that even if they make Agent Liberty a sympathetic character in many respects, the showrunners still haven't given up shilling for their side of the political spectrum. So if people who watch that show identify with the other side of that political spectrum, no it is not something to celebrate and do a victory dance over. But, in the interest of bringing everyone to a workable compromise in the middle, it is definitely something to note and acknowledge.

Does this make sense? A simple yes or no is fine, if you want. Thanks!