Is this genre dying out?

General discussions about superheroines!
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rklein
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For a long time I've been toying around with the idea of producing. Doing the VFX for other people's productions is fun, but sometimes I feel like I want to tell my own story. But I wouldn't even consider labeling what I want to do as becoming a "part-time" producer. I've really only got the energy and ideas for one or two productions in me, and seeing the trend of how many sites are closing, and producers shutting down, I seriously think the opportunity may have passed and it's never going to be worth it.
I recently had lunch with Valik10 and he urged me to really think it through, if I ever actually want to try my hand at this. It's expensive. Right off the bat, the models's day rates aren't cheap... then there's costumes, props, location rental....it all adds up. And I live in New England, so model selection is pretty slim and none are gonna travel up to the cold Notheast.
I read about the difficulties that are being worked out with trying to get Batgirl the drowning joke made. It is totally unnecessary to rehash that here, but the logistical problems seem unending and neArly insurmountable.
If I were to produce something I'd fund it myself, but that's a lot on money to sink into a project that I would probably never see a return on. It seems a lot of cheapskate users don't respect that making this stuff costs money and there needs to be some kind of profit to make it worth creating. This stuff always seems to end up on free sites, and each view is a lost sale...
It just seems to me like the opportunities that were once there have dried up, and there is no reason for me (or anyone who is not already well-established) to try to get my feet wet in producing.
This was mainly just a rant, to put down in words something I've been frustrated about for a while now.
Thanks for taking a moment to read this. Have a great day.

-rklein
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RedMountain
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There may be a lot of contributing factors if things are slowing down. One is that just about everything has been covered and now you're starting to see a lot of producers with nearly identical videos, just featuring different characters and actresses. There is also a lot of saturation with C4S and I think some people either already have seen a lot of what is out there or are just burned out on the content that is being produced.

The other thing is it seems that piracy is running rampant now. You can literally see brand new videos pop up on motherless.com and pornhub within a few hours of them being released and even some people are bold enough to upload full videos on youtube until their account is banned and then they'll just great a new account and do it again. Always try to report these if I see them, but doesn't seem like that really does anything. I'm sure between that and some of the draconian policies the credit card companies have nowadays for accepting payments, it certainly isn't helping producers.
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MightyHypnotic
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Yeah I agree, the piracy is the biggest issue but if you want to talk about financials, there are several factors. I use C4S as a barometer for the fetish industry as a whole and if you look at the top selling stores, none of them are superheroine related. I think Primal makes an appearance down around #30 or something. And there are a LOT of superheroine producers. So you really have to love what you're doing to be a superheroine producer and not focus on the money but focus on the brand.

My advice would be to start off easy. You don't have to pay models a full day rate. If you keep your content PG (Like The Superheroines did when they first started out) then your costs are manageable.
You could produce a decent story/FX driven video for probably as low as $50/hr per girl if you just used local actresses. But if you are going to have fetish content that rate would most likely double.
Also, if you keep it PG, you can sell it through Paypal without fear of getting shut down. That's a very good thing.

If you keep your first film to around 15 - 20 minutes running time, I don't think you would need more than 4 hours to shoot it. So a PG non-fetish film with FX that you would do yourself would run you about 400 plus your costumes and for location just shoot it at a hotel for the first one unless you want to lay out for a studio. If you do it right, you'll have a cool video and a good start.

But I would also agree that a lot has already been done in this genre. However, I think you could offer a unique product because of your love of FX.

Lastly, you can always test the waters by putting out an ad on Craiglist or Model Mayhem and lay out a simple sketch of what you're trying to do and see what interest you get from your local community as far as talent is concerned. When I started I did this about 5 times with false starts until I finally pulled the trigger. It was nerve wracking but also exciting!

Anyway, good luck!
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Yes after a time the genre is going to end up with a fair amount of David Pumpkins.
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swampy170
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Is it dying out? No.

.

Seeing piracy as every download being a lost sale is a logical fallacy spread by Hollywood bigwigs, utter rubbish. It undeniably has an effect on sales, ratio is far from 1:1 however.

In fact if you look at the gaming industry, piracy is proven to actually increase sales (if you look at the empirical evidence rather than listen to gaming studio execs)! - totally different environment with gaming, but with the way piracy is shown you would think there's no way to combat it. The gaming industry has been doing so incredibly effectively.

To get past the piracy issue the only way is to innovate.
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Pirates will never convert to sales so trying to stop piracy will not increase sales. Pirates aren't the issue. The issue are customers on the fence who may find it easier to simply download a pirated item than buy it. There is a lot of junk out there so there is an incentive for a customer to want to know what they are buying before they buy. How many times do you buy a product and get stung cause it sucked. DLSite for example has tons of products like this. The only thing you can do with pirates is kill the download links when you can.

I think the genre is cooling off. Its not shiny new and exotic like the old days when there was one or two producers. It also doesn't help that comic industry is pretty dry on erotica from the main producers. I have not seen one Wonder Woman video with a model in the new 52 costume. Maybe there's one out there but its pretty edge case. And same with CW supergirl. Not seeing a lot of those though maybe one or two exists. Same with Capt Marvel or Ms Marvel ( the new one). I think DC keeps powergirl pretty erotic but again its not like pics of that are all over. So the comic industry really isn't doing much to generate that new crop of horny comic reader customers. Maybe its safer to say the industry is not growing and more producers have spread the money around more.
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MightyHypnotic
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Yeah I agree with this. I meant to mention something yesterday, I think another issue is our genre is starting to age-ing out.
Let's face it, for the longest time this content was rooted in 60's and 70's comic and TV shows. A potion of the fanbase that used to help support this genre as it was growing have either started to move on or have moved on.
Don't get me wrong, there's still fans and yeah there are younger fans that are coming in but like Mr. X mention the PG peril that was the driving force and USED to exist in comics and TV shows isn't out there anymore, so it's tough to figure out what the appeal is for a younger generation and more importantly are they willing to pay for and support it?

I used to hate talking about the money side of this genre because I felt it killed the mystique and part of the fun of being a superheroine producer is creating that mystique. But I realize that's a conversation you guys want to have so here it is...
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Producers also have to contend with the very diverse interests of those making purchases in this genre. There are many who will not purchase a video (regardless of production values, story quality, costume accuracy and attractive performers) because it does not cater to or spend sufficient time on their distinct interest.
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Bugsy44
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If I can throw in my 2cents?
There are very few story driven superheroine sites! Ultraheroineclix? Next Global Crisis and Shakeshifts site are the only ones I can think of!

The fun little fetish has given way to endless storyless how fast can I remove her costume and shove a real or fake shlong in her mouth pornfest!
And let's face it when was the last time these "Superheroines" did anything super? Save some one? Solve a crime? Or even a simple thing like explain why they are in villains hideout or how they found it!

I think there could be a nice little niche for quality PG Superheroines!

Ok I am done for now! 😁
mcg
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Bugsy44 wrote:
6 years ago
If I can throw in my 2cents?
There are very few story driven superheroine sites! Ultraheroineclix? Next Global Crisis and Shakeshifts site are the only ones I can think of!

The fun little fetish has given way to endless storyless how fast can I remove her costume and shove a real or fake shlong in her mouth pornfest!
And let's face it when was the last time these "Superheroines" did anything super? Save some one? Solve a crime? Or even a simple thing like explain why they are in villains hideout or how they found it!

I think there could be a nice little niche for quality PG Superheroines!

Ok I am done for now! 😁
I agree with this 110%.

15 years ago, superheroine peril was superheroine peril. Porn makers noticed it getting popular and decided to throw costumes on porn stars and call it superheroine peril. 5 minute story followed by 15 minutes of porn. Yawn.

Punished Heroines and a couple others really knew what superheroine peril was back in the day.
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rklein
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Oh my....I had no idea my little post would generate so many responses. But I'm glad it did, if it brought up productive and constructive discussion.

I also agree with everything what bugsy, mcg, and everyone else is saying.

I'll admit, for me one of the least important aspects of doing my own production is sex. I have some story ideas that work just fine without any nudity or sex at all....I just figured I needed to include those elements to get the attention of anyone. (Anyone who has read HT knows that describing or doing anything sexual in my stories is what I was worst at) Perhaps I will pursue my production and story ideas from the standpoint of making a more PG or PG-13. I do also want to see more plot-driven stories, and my ideas would show superheroines (and villains) doing super things.

Of course, I realize that talk is cheap and the only thing that really matters is action - in this case, actually making a video.
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Folks who want to see more story-driven content should get together and write some scripts. Seriously.

In addition to the aging of fans created by airings of Lynda Carter Wonder Woman and Supergirl: The Movie and by the wave of sexy comics in the 90s, there is the shift from monoculture to hyperspecific splintered culture. We're ruined by search engine thinking -- if I just craft my search terms carefully enough, I will discover an endlessly-deep well of exactly what I want -- and if I don't, I'll wait for somebody to make it. Or maybe I'll find seventeen other things that do have deep wells and I'll go fall in one of those.
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Mr. X
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Bugsy44 wrote:
6 years ago
If I can throw in my 2cents?
There are very few story driven superheroine sites! Ultraheroineclix? Next Global Crisis and Shakeshifts site are the only ones I can think of!

The fun little fetish has given way to endless storyless how fast can I remove her costume and shove a real or fake shlong in her mouth pornfest!
And let's face it when was the last time these "Superheroines" did anything super? Save some one? Solve a crime? Or even a simple thing like explain why they are in villains hideout or how they found it!

I think there could be a nice little niche for quality PG Superheroines!

Ok I am done for now! 😁
This seems to be the problem with Giga -Akiba. The videos are all the same. Just becomes a porn flic after a while. Again a whole lotta David Pumpkins.
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To add to the 'saturation' issue, I often find that there seems to be an overabundance of 'porn' videos that are being pawned off as 'SH fetish' videos, when in fact these videos involve nothing more than your basic porn model wearing a flimsy $50 heroine costume getting pounded/drilled by a 'villian'...in typical 'porn' fashion. No evidence of 'D.I.D.' themes, no heroine perils, no STORY LINES....

Hopefully these 'FAST BUCK' SH fetish video producers will grow tired of this over-saturated market, and the REAL SH producers (few and far between) who have a true passion and love for this genre will be allowed to produce quality material, with a decent ROI for their hard work..

Darious
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Been following this discussion with interest.

RKlein, you should make videos using local New England models. Your FX are great and I would use them if I didn't already have my own FX guy literally living next door to me. And if you like your content more story-driven than porn-based, then just write good stories and there you have it.

Hypnotic and Mr. X both once again broach the topic that has been hinted at or bandied about on various other threads: the curtailing of sexiness in mainstream comics. However, sexiness isn't gone: you just have to look at the right comics. These days, there's no hotness in Marvel, there's some sexy in DC, there's more sexy in Image, and there are various indie books that still take it all the way to pruriencetown. That's why I keep posting in the Comics subforum. But it's true: when there are less sexy-drawn comic book heroines overall, you get less comic readers interested in the fetish.

As far as the desire for more PG-oriented story-driven material, that's exactly what I've been working on for the past year: an entire universe of heroines with intricate origin stories that will eventually blossom into interlocking complex storylines with the formation of a heroine league and many forces either supporting them or arrayed antagonistically against them. And all based entirely in science (no magic or psychic stuff). I've been influenced both by the legacy of underground niche-marketed SHIP and by the history of comics, TV shows and movies and have tried to blend in a bit of both.

We'll see what people think soon. But there is no way that this genre is dying when there are so many new producers jumping into it, and approaching it from different angles.
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One might think that if the perception of comics being drawn for the male gaze fades in favor of the perception of comics being drawn for empowerment fantasies... we'll see more demand for story-driven PG content that uses peril organically as a dramatic device rather than focusing on the more overtly stylized fetish elements, and more stories that don't fade out on total defeat. If we adjust our perspective we might see that it's already there.

Elsewhere we've expressed worry that "they're getting too close to us," but maybe long-term the more narrowly defined SHIP genre gets healthier by being part of a continuum of content that plays with comic book ideas.

I look forward to seeing what develops from shevek's and rklein's efforts.
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Bugsy44 wrote:
6 years ago
....And let's face it when was the last time these "Superheroines" did anything super? Save some one? Solve a crime? Or even a simple thing like explain why they are in villains hideout or how they found it....
I try and write stories this way but the response isn't always that great.
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ahem

niche; noun; a specialised market
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After a few years of ordering customs and purchasing videos I became bored of the whole thing. No disrespect to any of the producers as their videos were overall very professional and featured gorgeous women in great costumes. Unfortunately I found that the videos were almost all so similar. So within the last year I started ordering customs (6) from a new producer from France who is making films that offer something very different from the traditional SHIP films. His name is Damien Wagner. His films usually have a story with plenty of violence. Some of his work is quite erotic. No nudity or hardcore. The actresses always have abs exposed. The actresses wear street clothing and not super heroine type costumes or high heels although if asked to make a film with this, he would oblige you. He once asked me and I said no.
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Bugsy44
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Imagineer wrote:
6 years ago
Folks who want to see more story-driven content should get together and write some scripts. Seriously
I used to write them but it has been forever since I sat down and wrote anything! I used to bomb poor MH, Dynahunk, New Phoenix and even Miss Velvets!
Those poor buggers having to deal with me!
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A simple answer, yes, it is dying out. However, so is the NFL, and they have millions of fans still. I don't think it will ever go away, possibly just be a little less popular. Kind of like listening to your favorite song over and over- you stop after a while, but when it comes back on, you still listen to it.
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I can't see how anyone can think it (the genre) is dying when there is now more mainstream heroine material out there than ever before - with big budget movies planned for the next x years, successful tv series and a plethora of fan fiction the standard of which has come on in leaps and bounds since I first started browsing here.
I think its just a case of the genre becoming more diverse. Yes its now dominated by porn versions of the characters, but when you look back you would only have a smattering of peril releases from a handful of producers - but as there was little else it made up the bulk of the releases. Now its the minority and it seems swamped by SH porn, to the peril eye. But the peril only releases are still there - Cali Logan for one still does a fair few non topless vids as customs that are then released and there are others, like Jackie Velvets. Probably no fewer than there ever have been, but these days when there are releases weekly of SH nudity/porn, its easy to think the one or two a month of peril only releases indicate the genre is dying, it isn't. But when you can see Black Widow tied to a chair in an Avengers movie on the big screen its easy to forget that it may have been done on a clips4 sale store as well.
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I'm not sure the genre itself is dying but it's more its current form. I haven't bought a video for almost a year and I will try to explain why.

In my opinion, the biggest issue with SHIP industry from those 15 last years is that it never really try to evolve.
Aside from the content, I will speak about heroines themselves. We all know that Wonder Woman, Supergirl and Batgirl are the top sellers which means that a lot of producers (over)use them (and that's understandable). The problem with those heroines is that they're almost always wearing their 70's costume. Sometimes, when I'm looking for vids on C4S (or other sites) I really feel like it's more about a 70's Wonder Woman in tights/high heels fetish than a real superheroine one. It's like "superheroine" means Linda Carter.

Maybe I'm wrong but, in my opinion, the SHIP industry as it stands right now doesn't really aimed peolple who are 20/30 years old. There were many characters from the 90's / 2000's pop culture (comics, manga, movies, TV shows, Video Games, anime) that were (almost) never used as character in SHIP videos. I won't make a list of characters but I'm so sad we don't get a chance to see more Psylocke, Storm, Caitlin Fairchild or Raven (DC) more often...
Also, I've always though that some Video Game characters would have fitted very well to the SHIP concept. Mortal Kombat or Street Fighter for exemple: the girls are strong, have super powers, they often wear tight/revealing outfits, can kick ass but also get her ass kicked. I remember I have already seen a few rare videos with Kitana or Cammy but, each time the costume was far from being as sexy as the original one (low cut fullback or shorts instead of high cut/thong, wrong size), it was more looking like a halloween cheap costume...Seriously, you just have to go on Facebook and search for Cosplay girls to find (far) better and sexier Cammy (or Psylocke, Kitana...) costume that you've ever seen in SHIP vids...
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batgirl1969
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Show up on a saturday night, dressed as the video game Harley Quinn at a strip club....I promise....this genre is NOT dying...at least not the desire for people to love kinky dressed chica as heroines/villains....the movies really help!!
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batgirl1969 wrote:
6 years ago
Show up on a saturday night, dressed as the video game Harley Quinn at a strip club....
Gonna have to take your word for it.

(A man's got to know his limitations.)
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Could also be the producers themselves are old and in a rut. I know I am at times. I still love me a star spangled booty.
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I am going to put in my 2 cents

First, I am probably the rare breed in this industry, I am a woman, 20 something, just graduate from Film School, I enjoy comic books and animation (Mostly Japanese Animation) and I don't really into porn that way (I don't think the kind of porn I am interested are mainstream in this genre). I produce superhero flicks as an interest of mine, and I don't use nudity and sex in general to shoot my movie, I am one of these hard-core storyline PG-13 producer

I am quite new to this, not being produce any superhero stuff before, and to some extend, action stuff, so for me, doing this is 50% learning, and 50% fun.

What I see wrong with this industry and genre is, the sexual element is too great in the industry, Yes, we all dream a little and that wouldn't hurt anybody, but when everything is on the table, then there will be a lack of imagination on this genre, and what worse is, that actually make money, I mean, people actually made out tons of money off people stripping off and just the baddies and the superheroine going at it. I am not a guy, but I still know there is a limit as to how much more a person can take.

When I was a teenagers, I read comic books so I can be putting myself in that imaginary world, kicking arse and taking name, and that is what these comic book we grew up with supposed to be, and this is how superhero genre supposed to be, not in today term of how quickly you can undress the superhero. I don't know about you but I am sure as hell do not want to be tied down to a bed and being undressed. So, basically, that kind of film speak nothing to me. And I cannot be putting myself in the shoes of the superhero. Or I rather wouldn't

The traditional "Good vs Bad" is a good place for producer to restart, and I don't mean good will have to win 10 out of 10 times, but this is what Superhero Genre is to me, Good vs Bad, not how much you can demean a poor girl just want to do some good and ended up naked and getting abused every which way. While I do understand this genre would have associated some sort of "Peril" element in it, but there are peril where the superheroine is needed in that situation, and there are some "peril" element that do not make sense.

For folks like us, I guess we will need to wait until the dominant factor is gone for now, Which is you rather see a girl strip than enjoy a good vs evil story, but I don't think outside mainstream, this trend can be reverted. The only hope, for us, I guess would be to tag along with the mainstream success and simply offer a healthy alternative than these porn based superhero story.

Ava
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not sure if it's dying out, but to me it's certainly drying out....drying out with the same old repetitive formula. I'm not saying every producer falls under my assertion, because there are few that know how to mix it up with a little variety, but I see some of the same producers over and over again releasing 'new' movies but featuring the same old predictable storyline. Might be a new model in a different costume, but same old formula when it comes to story.
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Strongly agree with Tally. I honestly don't know how you look at the genre today and think it's dying. From when I first took an interest in the genre to today the genre seems to have gone from strength to strength, grown in virtually every capacity I can imagine, and diversified considerably. Yes, it's heavily saturated - particularly as regards porny videos - but that's just what happens when so many different content producers keep producing over a length of time. It's testament to the on-going health of the genre that such content is still being rolled out on top of the heaping pile that came before it.

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure it is indeed hard to start life as a video producer in such a mobbed market, but if anything I'd blame that difficulty on the rude health of it rather than failing health. Likewise, given the amount of fetish going on here, everyone can complain that their exact itch isn't scratched, but it would be a stretch to apply that issue to the whole genre. As a consumer, the genre just gets better, bigger and more recognised. If you're of the inclination that you want zero sexualisation or sexual peril/sexually suggestive peril, you are still spoiled for choice with videos, pictures and stories. If you are puritanical, and want totally chaste 'DC or Marvel character faces a little bit of danger'... I believe DC and Marvel are quite good content producers for that one.

Maybe the genre is dying in the nihilistic sense that everything which exists is approaching a state of non-existence? Otherwise, no, the genre isn't dying. It doesn't even have a cold.
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Hey ya'll!
Interesting discussion, I figured I'd like to add my perspective.
Although, I'm a producer I see myself as a fan first. When I discovered this genre 15 years ago it was with sooperhero.com and when I looked around at the time there wasn't much to choose from and I found myself buying whatever I can find because I've always fantasized about stuff like this and to see it finally produced was awesome. As time moved on, more and more content popped up from other productions and there was a lot to choose from (more than what my budget could handle) and I had to be a little more choosey in what I bought. Now as a producer, I buy a few stuff since I need the extra money to produce my own content. As a fan and a producer, I don't see the genre as dying but definitely cooled off as interests has spread out to sub-genres. There are fans that prefer the sex-oriented stuff and there are some that prefer the PG/story related segment of the genre. Another aspect is including the tights or no-tights crowds who would only buy videos that would just buy the videos with the actresses wearing tights and those that just wants no tights. Now in this day and age, fans can be more specific in what they buy. There is some aging out but I think it is more that folks are more choosey in where they are spending their hard earned money. Taking myself as an example, I have a limited income for my interests so there are only 3 or 4 other producers I would only purchase from because their style and products suits me.

Also, at this point there is a bit of over-saturation that as a fan you would enjoy but as a producer is just another challenge to deal-with including piracy, being burned out and/or trying to think of something fresh that keep the fans and myself as a producer interested and most importantly being able to budget/afford shooting the videos. There is a lot of mainstream stuff out there that shows there is an interest and the blowing up of cosplay shows that. The new superhero tv/movie stuff that keeps popping up is another sign that there is life. I do ultraheroix.com because I love this stuff and my goal is to share my stories/videos that other can enjoy. Financially I need the videos to be able to support the production and any extra revenue is a nice bonus for everyday expenses and maybe something a fun purchase for myself from time to time.

Lastly, I think there is a bit of staleness which is why I try to focus on more storyline line stuff to keep it interesting and also why I'm doing more Star Trek stuff to keep things fresh, shake things up and fun. I think trying new things is something producers would need to do more of to keep things fresh and keep the fans excited and coming back for more since there is a lot to choose from out there and not just with the genre but other interest out there too.
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rklein
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Everyone has been making excellent points! I'm very happy that this discussion still going, and has not devolved into a shouting match.

I applaud everyone who has contributed and voiced their own opinion but kept it civil.

For myself, I've been thinking more about a film-able storyline this week. I'm finding it hard coming with with lots of different scenes and a real story when its only one or two actresses....but I'm trying to come up with something I (and others) will think is fun.
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I think it needs more group action....like not just 1on1 but 4 or 5 on 2 or 3....the bat villains against all 3 Batman Robin AND Batgirl....not just porn either....full on sets with lighting and props...I am SURE if we could get more cosplayers into this and they could see how much money and fame they could get, they may be all over it!! After all most make their own costumes and props in the cheap! And most look as good or better than the real deals....imagine Raven and Starfire and robin captured by a group from Apokolips.....hot!!!
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I think the genre is definitely going to change over the next few years as those of us of a certain vintage get older and move on. A segment of us here, and I'm guessing it's a large segment, grew up in a time when peril was all over our TVs and comics triggering these particular fetishes. With the advent of the internet, we've been able to enjoy these fantasies brought to life and for that, I'm grateful. But it is true that it's become repetitive and dare i say, boring? I guess too much of a good thing can be bad.

As for the next generation, with current trends and female empowerment, I don't know how these fetishes will be able to develop. Guys will always love a girl dressed as WW, Supergirl or Harley, but that peril aspect will be missing. It's the look that will be the turn on. The triggers will not be there except for those few who may be exposed to those old TV shows and comics at the right age. But with time marching on, those beloved memories will be lost to the ages, like everything else. So enjoy it while we have it.
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I think the genre is dying out for a few reasons. Lack of new and innovative ideas,storylines etc. Evrey conceivable scenario has been done and then redone to death to the point where every video seems the same just plug in Model X and there you go. It was one reason I decided to stop shooting was I was out of ideas or out of ways to make old ideas fresh. Another reason is that now most,not all,seem to be strictly porn disguised as heroine peril videos. Again the outcomes are the same,sex,blowjobs etc etc to the point where If i do but a video I tend to scroll through to find something i Like. Also the crop of model;s is changing. Lots of the models that have been used for years are getting older,moving on to other things etc and those fan bases dissapear as well. I just think the vdieos have run their course and until someone can come up something totally original it will continue to decline
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Here's my 2 cents, which is likely overpriced. I think for some years this genre was fueled by a pent-up demand lurking within thousands of individuals. Demand grew as wildest fantasies were fulfilled by video producers whose offerings diversified and could be customized. Most producers have developed their own specialties.

The demand now, I think, is flat. It's just lower than the pent-up demand levels. On the supply side, making videos is so much work and trouble that producers stick with what's been successful rather than take chances on something new. In short, I think this is now a matured market.

That said, I also believe someone(s) will enter and disrupt the market with something new. It might be next week or three years from next week. With many existing producers and few barriers for new ones, I expect to see someone do something innovative.
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I'm a little late to the discussion but figure I'll pipe in.

I don't think SHIP fetish is dying out. There are so many sites out there and lots of content being produced. Until we see a lot of sites contract, I don't think we can say the fetish is getting smaller or dying out. I'd be curious to see how the fan base changes; as has been pointed out we've got a lot of people that started inspired by the 70s and 80s content. I'm curious whose coming in whose been inspired by things in the 90s-2000s. How many people watched the scene of Black Widow tied up in that chair in the Avengers in her tights or when Supergirl was exposed to Rhea's Kryptonite Sias and discovered their fetish for the content?

But more on topic, I have cooled a little bit in my SHIP love, mostly in relating to video purchases reason being, I don't see my elements I love in the genre being done anymore or not being done well. My most common complaint these days is videos seem to be these days a superheroine encounters some badguy, they fight, she gets beat up, and an endless groping or sex scene begins. Now I've grown since I've first started here. I'm more okay with sexual content in SHIP then I was before...but it doesn't feel like there's any context any more for it. Even those vids which seemed to imply or say it was the heroine's weakness has gone away. Its just sex for well sex.

What happened to telling a story which has great elements (for me now personally I'll admit)? Seeing a villainess plot her trap against the heroine, seeing the proud and confident heroine falling into it, seeing them weakened and needing to over come the trap, either succeeding or failing. I feel like if your telling a better story, it makes the peril elements all the more exciting. Half the allure of a Kryptonite Scene for Supergirl, one of my favorite perils, is the feeling you get in your stomach as the viewer; knowing Supergirl is moments away from exposing herself to her weakness yet she doesn't know. Story and build up to that moment make it so much more rewarding than say, SG walks into a room and villain pulls out the Kryptonite, like so many vids do these days.

I'd agree too that there seems to be a lack of trying new characters or costumes. My favorite Supergirl costume is Melissa Benoist's from the CBS/CW show. Yet, I've seen only one producer working on having a costume like that and their vid isn't even out yet. Again, that is more a personal thing but to give a different example I loved it when Jackie Velvets did a vid with Spider-Gwen, another character I like and hadn't seen in vids yet. It was awesome to see her on screen getting into peril.

I'll wrap this up as I'm adding thoughts I think that may have been better expressed already but mainly I'm just a little sad I don't see as many great vids focused on a good story, peril, and costumes for characters. Rather than a nice crafted product, we've got a lot of mass produced things and it takes away what's a little special about this fetish.
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Personally, I think mainstream super heroines are in a second golden age: Wonder Woman became the summer blockbuster; Supergirl in her third season on TV; Batigrl to star in her own stand alone movie for the first time. As well as other happenings, like Black Widow, Harley Quinn, and Anne Hathaway's credible Catwoman just sneaking into this era.

One could say the first golden age started with Batgirl and Catwoman in the 1960s Batman and Robin TV show, leading on to the Wonder Woman with Cathy Lee Crosby in 74 and with Lynda Carter 75-79. Significantly, non comic book heroine, The Bionic Woman 75 to 78. Others like Isis 75-77. I think its fair include and end with the failure of the 1984 Supergirl movie (as the Salklands bought the rights to the character with their Superman films in the late 70s). So this period spanning about 20 years was a really significant time for female heroines and, subsequently, made for a wider public ongoing interest in them. In short, Wonder Woman, Supergirl, Batgirl and Catwoman are the big four female comic characters that everybody knows.

Peril videos have most predominately based on the above big four comic characters. To answer the original question, I suspect there's more interest now than ever before, but also more producers creating greater choices. Ten years ago, amateur producers could get their models to put on a Halloween super heroine costume, act out some basic peril situation, and that was enough to sell. Now the expectation has naturally increased with competition. All the same, it's possible to put most peril in three main categories:

1) Emulating classic film / TV scenes and exaggerating the peril - chloroform, kryptonite, debelting, demasking, bearhugging etc
2) beatings - where the heroine loses a fight and gets punched in the stomach for ten minutes or more :rolleyes:
3) obvious sexual content - nudity, sex, bondage.

Of course, many peril products include elements from all three categories...
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There needs to be more buzz saw perils, more use of the rack and the stocks and all that fun stuff!!
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Deceiver wrote:
6 years ago


One could say the first golden age started with Batgirl and Catwoman in the 1960s Batman and Robin TV show, leading on to the Wonder Woman with Cathy Lee Crosby in 74 and with Lynda Carter 75-79. Significantly, non comic book heroine, The Bionic Woman 75 to 78. Others like Isis 75-77. I think its fair include and end with the failure of the 1984 Supergirl movie (as the Salklands bought the rights to the character with their Superman films in the late 70s). So this period spanning about 20 years was a really significant time for female heroines and, subsequently, made for a wider public ongoing interest in them. In short, Wonder Woman, Supergirl, Batgirl and Catwoman are the big four female comic characters that everybody knows.
I'm wondering if you would include Xena in this group? Maybe she's a corollary of it in some ways. Then again, not many Xena fetish videos out there that I've noticed.
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batgirl1969 wrote:
6 years ago
There needs to be more buzz saw perils, more use of the rack and the stocks and all that fun stuff!!
Which reminds me of one of the overlooked peril prone heroines of my early youth, namely Penelope Pitstop

recently redone in the post apocalyptic "Wacky Wasteland" which I am desperate to get my gnarled hands on!

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Deceiver wrote:
6 years ago
All the same, it's possible to put most peril in three main categories:

1) Emulating classic film / TV scenes and exaggerating the peril - chloroform, kryptonite, debelting, demasking, bearhugging etc
We know as long as Superpersons are on screens big and small that Kryptonite will be trotted out with some regularity, but aren't the other common trap/weakness fetish elements mentioned strictly the products of a bygone era? Batman in the 60s gave us elaborate traps like those of early Bond films and early serials, and of course Electrawoman and Dynagirl gave it a Hold My Beer, but has recent-vintage programming given it a refresh? Wonder Woman in the 70s did similar for debelting, chloroform, and I want to say bearhugs -- what about since then?

Am I just failing to see the fetish potential in the various imperilments of the CW shows? Will we start to see demand for the plexiglass gas chamber from Arrow or the wrists-and-ankles suspension from Supergirl?

Or is the tied-to-the-train-tracks I-expect-you-to-die kind of peril considered a relic?
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I certainly do not feel that the genre is dying out. I enjoy it as much as I ever have! I don't buy videos that often, but I would definitely purchase more if I had a lot more disposable income, for sure. Mostly I just concentrate on drawing my own heroine-in-peril scenarios, despite my limited artistic skills. Plus, I commission other, more talented artists to portray my super-gals gettin' into KO-trouble. I have a great time with this nutty little hobby!
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Like anything else, there is the oversaturation of producers/work. The same goes with graphic designers, web designers, apps, etc... I think that there are more and more people with weirder and weirder fetishes these days. I guess technology has that effect of both turning people on to an unusual fetish and/or giving them more access and more ways to express themselves.
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In my personal opinion...no the genre is not really dying out.

if anything, it's in a 'medically-induced coma', but that can change. The best way to breathe life back into some of these productions is to show a little diversity in these projects. As I've said, the whole 'heroine loses' formula is really starting to wear thin and that can't be the only thing producers create. Truth be told, you don't need a custom request to do stories where the good guys win.

Sometimes you gotta take it a step further and do stories where the heroines can '1-up' the villains for a change. Or you can do stories where the heroines interact with the civilians like Lois Lane, Vicki Vale, Mary Jane Parker, Chase Meridian, etc. There's plenty of ideas that can be done when the heroine interacts with a civilian.

Another idea that can help the genre is more homages. Homages are a great way to create ideas, you borrow an idea and blend it with your own ideas to create something that not only pays homage to a certain type of media (a favorite movie, scene or character) but you are able to add something unique from your own arsenal.

Simply put, it's all about the producer willing to take a gamble on something to see where it goes, that's all. :cool2:
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Hope I'm not rattling any chains here, but I think Deceiver's history needs an addition.

If we're charting the "modern age" of superheroines (and their attendant peril scenes) then I believe that era just started no more than four years ago, with the advent of the CW shows, the new Supergirl series, and now culminating with Wonder Woman and Harley Quinn. This era is new, and I believe we have not seen the peak of it yet, as there are many more superheroine products that will follow shortly. This could be epic, and it would seem that there's little chance that SHIP will fade out because there will be lots of upcoming inspiration for it. I would say that the only downside is that the year this age began (circa 2014) is also the year that the ascendant crop of social justice warriors starting invading the entertainment industry and also the movie industry. So I'm sure there'll continue to be a give and take within pop culture about that. Hopefully the sexy stuff wins out.

But my addition would be that this current age is not the second age, but the THIRD. If the First Age of Superheroine Sexiness (let's call it the "Good Girl" age) ended with the failed Supergirl movie, then the Second Age of Superheroine Sexiness (let's call it the "Bad Girl" age) began the following year in 1985 with the Red Sonja movie. And in case you think Red Sonja is not important, please consider that as recently as 2011, Red Sonja was rated the sexiest comic book character of all time!! Of course, shortly after that, the "bad girl" era began in earnest, both in comic books and on the big and small screens. You had Buffy, Xena, Dark Angel, Cleopatra 2525, Birds of Prey, Painkiller Jane, Black Scorpion, Seven of Nine (DS9), Witchblade and both DC and Marvel cartoons on TV. Smallville had lots of sexy female characters in it. You had Michelle Pfeiffer's Catwoman, Uma Thurman's Poison Ivy and My Super Ex-Girlfriend, Alicia Silverstone's Batgirl, Storm and Rogue in the X-Men Movies, and Black Widow in the Avengers films. And most of all, you had the first stirrings of the independent SHIP video scene (the first SHIP thing I came across on the Internet was around 1998 or so) which blossomed pretty fully by the end of the Oughties. I would say there's lots of important material in this interim age and that it ran from about 1985 to 2012 or so.

I think a good name for the nascent Third Age is the Social Media Age, since everything that happens is pretty much driven by the Internet and social media at this point. And I think what we need for the Third Age is a lot more variety, with producers hopefully not always relying on the same heroine
chestnuts. Again, just like with previous eras, Marvel comics characters will fall way behind DC unfortunately, and this is mainly because Marvel has taken considerable pains to not make many of their current A-list female characters sexy, while DC has no such compunctions. Hopefully you will see more videos from the likes of Harley Quinn, Raven, Starfire, Black Canary and so on. But among other things, what I'd really like from the Third Age is a new Red Sonja movie!
Last edited by shevek 6 years ago, edited 1 time in total.
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mcg wrote:
6 years ago
Bugsy44 wrote:
6 years ago
If I can throw in my 2cents?
There are very few story driven superheroine sites! Ultraheroineclix? Next Global Crisis and Shakeshifts site are the only ones I can think of!

The fun little fetish has given way to endless storyless how fast can I remove her costume and shove a real or fake shlong in her mouth pornfest!
And let's face it when was the last time these "Superheroines" did anything super? Save some one? Solve a crime? Or even a simple thing like explain why they are in villains hideout or how they found it!

I think there could be a nice little niche for quality PG Superheroines!

Ok I am done for now! 😁
I agree with this 110%.

15 years ago, superheroine peril was superheroine peril. Porn makers noticed it getting popular and decided to throw costumes on porn stars and call it superheroine peril. 5 minute story followed by 15 minutes of porn. Yawn.

Punished Heroines and a couple others really knew what superheroine peril was back in the day.
To address this first...you misremember Punished Heroines and all those sites. Those were, more or less, porn flicks. It was always "uh oh here's a green rock. Heroine is weakened. Time to fuck." The idea that Porn makers noticed it and jumped on the bandwagon is nonsense. They have to an extent, but they latched onto comics making it big in Hollywood not so much this stuff. Either way most of the stuff was ALWAYS beating up heroine, getting her out of costume, then fucking her. It's always been a porn esque thing.

I see a lot of stuff in this thread that's either rose tinted nostalgia or glorifying days gone by. Firstly this genre isn't dying. It's as prolific as it's ever been. We have a great selection of producers, actresses, studios, etc. I don't think people remember the early days of this genre. Shit was bad.

As for why you don't see more proper storylines and things of the sort...well from what I can tell customs drive things now and people don't want that. They want the model of their choosing getting down to the nitty gritty. Customs aren't cheap so I imagine people don't want to waste time, with storylines and want to maximize their money spent. If I'm paying for a custom do I want an extra five minutes of sex or five minutes of dialogue? I know what I'm choosing. I can't tell you how many times I've seen on sites a PG movie get shit on, because...well it's PG. People want hardcore.

If people have a desire for proper story driven content then pony up the cash, contact a producer and get the ball rolling. The other thing you must consider is that people just have wildly different tastes. A movie I see might be awesome for me, but someone else might hate, because it doesn't have a boot removal sequence, or the heroine is or isn't wearing pantyhose. Like I've literally seen people say "not buying, because she's not wearing pantyhose".

I was kind of all over the place there. Anyways the "staleness" thing is somewhat true, but it's also what people are ordering and demanding so bit of a catch 22. Me personally I'd say a bigger issue is just seeing the same models over and over again. This was more prevalent back in the day, but it's still true to an extent. Thankfully when one leaves the scene, another rises to take their place. Like I said earlier we have a great crop to choose from nowadays (even the proper porn actresses have done well).
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Extrapolating from producers' comments in another current thread ( viewtopic.php?f=1&t=29794 )
it's probably more like another five minutes of sex or one minute of dialog.

And yeah, Punished Heroines knew what peril was, but Justice Girl was naked and sim-rubbing one out in '04, and the Jeckyll Demon was sim-dipping his wick almost as often as he was orbital-sanding a heroine's hoohah. Here's a card from the Princess Spheria video: "Time to mount and force your demon members down every orifice on her body!" So I guess you can blame them for ruining things over 13 years ago?
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shevek wrote:
6 years ago
Hope I'm not rattling any chains here, but I think Deceiver's history needs an addition.

If we're charting the "modern age" of superheroines (and their attendant peril scenes) then I believe that era just started no more than four years ago, with the advent of the CW shows, the new Supergirl series, and now culminating with Wonder Woman and Harley Quinn. This era is new, and I believe we have not seen the peak of it yet, as there are many more superheroine products that will follow shortly. This could be epic, and it would seem that there's little chance that SHIP will fade out because there will be lots of upcoming inspiration for it. I would say that the only downside is that the year this age began (circa 2014) is also the year that the ascendant crop of social justice warriors starting invading the entertainment industry and also the movie industry. So I'm sure there'll continue to be a give and take within pop culture about that. Hopefully the sexy stuff wins out.

But my addition would be that this current age is not the second age, but the THIRD. If the First Age of Superheroine Sexiness (let's call it the "Good Girl" age) ended with the failed Supergirl movie, then the Second Age of Superheroine Sexiness (let's call it the "Bad Girl" age) began the following year in 1985 with the Red Sonja movie. And in case you think Red Sonja is not important, please consider that as recently as 2011, Red Sonja was rated the sexiest comic book character of all time!! Of course, shortly after that, the "bad girl" era began in earnest, both in comic books and on the big and small screens. You had Buffy, Xena, Dark Angel, Cleopatra 2525, Birds of Prey, Painkiller Jane, Black Scorpion, Seven of Nine (DS9), Witchblade and both DC and Marvel cartoons on TV. You had Michelle Pfeiffer's Catwoman, Uma Thurman's Poison Ivy and My Super Ex-Girlfriend, Alicia Silverstone's Batgirl, Storm and Rogue in the X-Men Movies, and Black Widow in the Avengers films. And most of all, you had the first stirrings of the independent SHIP video scene (the first SHIP thing I came across on the Internet was around 1998 or so) which blossomed pretty fully by the end of the Oughties. I would say there's lots of important material in this interim age and that it ran from about 1985 to 2012 or so.

I think a good name for the nascent Third Age is the Social Media Age, since everything that happens is pretty much driven by the Internet and social media at this point. And I think what we need for the Third Age is a lot more variety, with producers hopefully not always relying on the same heroine
chestnuts. Again, just like with previous eras, Marvel comics characters will fall way behind DC unfortunately, and this is mainly because Marvel has taken considerable pains to not make many of their current A-list female characters sexy, while DC has no such compunctions. Hopefully you will see more videos from the likes of Harley Quinn, Raven, Starfire, Black Canary and so on. But among other things, what I'd really like from the Third Age is a new Red Sonja movie!
Actually, I like what you said here. Renaming my golden age the good girl age, followed by a bad girl age, makes for a good overview. In the bad girl age even Batgirl (Alicia Silverstone) Kara (Smallville) and Wonder Woman (Adrianne Palicki) had real questionable attitudes. Perhaps due to a more conservative version of feminism, this third age appears to be a return to essentially the good girl super heroine with contemporary attitudes in society.
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DrDominator9 wrote:
6 years ago
I'm wondering if you would include Xena in this group? Maybe she's a corollary of it in some ways. Then again, not many Xena fetish videos out there that I've noticed.
See above.
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Imagineer wrote:
6 years ago
Deceiver wrote:
6 years ago
All the same, it's possible to put most peril in three main categories:

1) Emulating classic film / TV scenes and exaggerating the peril - chloroform, kryptonite, debelting, demasking, bearhugging etc
We know as long as Superpersons are on screens big and small that Kryptonite will be trotted out with some regularity, but aren't the other common trap/weakness fetish elements mentioned strictly the products of a bygone era? Batman in the 60s gave us elaborate traps like those of early Bond films and early serials, and of course Electrawoman and Dynagirl gave it a Hold My Beer, but has recent-vintage programming given it a refresh? Wonder Woman in the 70s did similar for debelting, chloroform, and I want to say bearhugs -- what about since then?

Am I just failing to see the fetish potential in the various imperilments of the CW shows? Will we start to see demand for the plexiglass gas chamber from Arrow or the wrists-and-ankles suspension from Supergirl?

Or is the tied-to-the-train-tracks I-expect-you-to-die kind of peril considered a relic?
I'm guessing they will have an impact. If not so much, maybe it's because everything is so fast now? Supergirl is suspended in chains, freed herself in the next shot; same with Wonder Woman trapped in that box thing for all of a second...
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