Patreon

[DonShip]

I've been talking to other writers, and we are wondering if readers would be interested in supporting a writer on Patreon.com.

The best I can see it at the moment, for a $1 donation a month, the patron would receive a story, or chapter of an ongoing story, per week. Other writers think once or twice a month, but I think weekly updates are best. If I did this, it would be to continue my Ms Patriot series, since Amazon has effectively killed it for me. I could post stories of all my heroines, and I could explore a lot more fetishes and kinks that Amazon doesn't like (they don't like hypnotism or rape, for instance, and publishing such stories could get a writer banned on Amazon).

I see there are comic artists and game designers and such doing well on Patreon, but I'm not sure about writers. Does that sound like anything you guys would be interested in?

Or there other things you would expect to receive from donating monthly to a Patreon writer?

[Philo Hunter]

I know there are a handful of Mind Control writers that do this. My understanding is its possible to make a decent chunk of change with the right following and a steady output, but not enough to make it a full time job.

[DonShip]

Do you have links you can share? I'd like to see what they are doing.

[Philo Hunter]

https://www.patreon.com/panwhowrites
https://www.patreon.com/madamkistulot
https://www.patreon.com/user?u=4324054

Couldn't find too many, but I know there are more out there. I'm not on the MCForums as much as I used to, as the business practices of the people that hang out in the epublishing section make me uncomfortable so I'm not as up to date with who is having success and who isn't.

Seriously though, if YOU can't make a go of it with the following you have I doubt anyone in the superheroine genre will be able to.

[DonShip]

Thanks, Philo

[Philo Hunter]

Anything I can do to help a fellow author! And it sucks you've been chased off Amazon. I've never had any problems, but I think I've tailored my writing towards Amazon from the start and just been incredibly lucky. Make sure you make a big post if you start a patreon!

[DonShip]

Thanks. I'm still on Amazon for the moment, but not with Ms Patriot.

[Philo Hunter]

Does the stuff you post to smashwords sell alright? Compared to amazon my sales there are like 5% the volume. I always wondered if larger authors had more luck there.

[DonShip]

Does the stuff you post to smashwords sell alright? Compared to amazon my sales there are like 5% the volume. I always wondered if larger authors had more luck there.

I sell enough to keep publishing on Smashwords and Barnes & Noble, but neither site sells much. Smashwords does sell my super heroine books better than Barnes & Noble. Amazon is still king.

I have some Ms Patroit collections ready, with covers bought before Amazon dropped the hammer. I just need to finish editing the stories and then I'll publish on both Smashwords and Barnes & Noble. After that, any Ms Patriot stories will have to be on a Patreon or somewhere else. Shame, too, because I really enjoyed running her through the grinder. At least Patreon will allow me to push the envelope kink and fetish wise. The stories could become a lot more fun to write, and read.

[Void]

Amazon gave the entire series the axe? That's so brutal - I'm so sorry. If you don't mind my asking, what was it that crossed the line for them to take that step? Message me if you'd rather not discuss it in thread.

Back on topic, I think Patreon is a very attractive option if you already have a following to go there with you, but I can't imagine it being worth the effort to keep up with your mini deadlines if you begin without support. Certainly it's a medium that loads of other content producers make work very well, and I think it's a win-win system for everyone when it works. I echo Philo's sentiments: if anyone could have the following and quality to make this work - it would be you.

I took a quick look at it myself awhile ago to try and keep my motivation up to continue writing, and I seem to remember being put off as I looked into making a page when I read a line of fine print that said something to the effect of 'we do not promote/host porn, or writing that fetishizes sexual violence and abuse'. I admit I'm paraphrasing, and I can't link offhand where I read this, but it came up while I was categorising the content I would be producing (writing with adult content). My point is I would still be wary of Patreon, and it may even be worth clarifying with their support staff what kinds of content they will support.

Best of luck with whatever you decide to do. Whatever the medium, I'm confident there would be a willing and active market for the Patriot series.

[KnightsofGotham.com]

Patreon has its perks and its pitfalls. I have 5 patreons going and some are working better than others. there are a few cheats people use to get the content and then skip. PM me and I'll give you my story here so you can beware and protect yourself.

[Philo Hunter]

If you don't mind my asking, what was it that crossed the line for them to take that step?

Don's actually had some luck getting straight answers form them in the past if I recall, but for most people the problem is they won't tell you what a book did to get banned. They just link you to the terms of service and say "this whole thing". And where they draw there lines has changed over the years and been applied inconsistently.

An example is that I've never had an problems with my stuff. It could be that I've tailored my writing for Amazon, avoiding the "r" word, making it so the heroines secretly love everything happening to them, keep the interaction of violence and sex to a minimum. Or it could be that my sales are so much lower and I've just managed to fly under the radar. I'll probably never actually know.

[Void]

Ugh, yeah, that's the kind of thing I'm afraid of. It's the issue of consistency that would most bother me with this - with seemingly much coming down to the perceived intent of the author. As you suggest, I think the closer the content is to snuff, with a horrified woman being violently abused all within a fetishized context - I can see a line being drawn there, *maybe*. My fear is that Don was nowhere near that line, or if he was then it was done through the clear lens of parody. I look at what is on Amazon, what works are safely hanging out to be purchased, and I can't fathom what yardstick is being used to drop the banhammer. Could it just come down to customer complaints, I wonder?

I've done well enough with my tentative efforts here to be considering dedicating much more time towards writing works in this genre to sell on Amazon - but the prospect of an arbitrary hammer falling from the sky to torch a release for no clear reason... Well, that's just too much uncertainty for what would already be a risky endeavour, in terms of opportunity cost. I do like the idea of Patreon as an alternative, but I think you need a big platform to direct your consumers there, and then for those readers to be keen enough to bite. The steadiness of it is very appealing, and I think the kind of thing I would need assurance of before quitting the day job, so to speak.

[Philo Hunter]

Well, even what I publish is pushing past the established line. They don't want anything that is non consensual or even dub con (which is where my stuff falls). Then why is there so much of that on Amazon you ask? I don't know. It seems when you submit matters. It seems some reviewers are more up tight, some content more closely looked at then others. I clearly mark all of my stuff as for adults only, both on the cover and in the descriptions and I ALWAYS put it in erotica. A lot of authors don't do those two things and I think that is part of the problem. Yes, adult content posted in other sections of Amazon will sell better, but doing that is just asking for problems.

I'm lucky in that I can write "full time" and not have it be my primary source of income. If it was I would take even less risks that I do.

It really sucks that Smashwords is just such a sub-par sight. They are the biggest competitor to amazon and going to it and looking for books and downloading them and dealing with an ugly site that hasn't been updated in forever that is just a pain to use, I can understand why most people just head on back to the zon.

[DonShip]

Philo is right. Amazon doesn't like rape, non consent, or forced consent, though they are very haphazard about enforcing that "rule"

Indeed, they are very sketchy about what they allow and don't allow, and never tell you exactly why a book is banned. They just banned the last Ms Patriot book and said I could lose my account if I publish anything like it again. Ms Patriot was my most extreme, but even then I never used the word "Rape" in them ever. That's probably a word their computers scan for. Ms Patriot was just captured a lot, tied up, unmasked, and fucked stupid. And she always LOVED it, to her shame. They did not take down any of the other books in the series, and some of them are "suppressed" in their search engine. Amazon has different levels of keeping your visibility limited.

I don't put mine in Erotica, because erotica gets a different kind of screening and is much more likely to be banned. Also, books in erotica aren't as easy to find in searches, due to suppression, so sales are much better if I put them in the SF/superhero category, fantasy, paranormal, etc. I used to put them in graphic novels/super heroes before there was a regular super hero category. I got a few low star reviews because they were in graphic novels, too, and I couldn't blame them.

If I continued the Ms Patriot series I'd have to cut out the sex, and that isn't what the readers want. I published a single book in the Ms Amazing world "Battering Ram of Justice" with zero sex, and got complaints. But, it was also my best selling book.

It's a balancing act trying to please the readers and Amazon's censors. And honestly, the super heroine in peril books sell better than regular erotica, but not as good as regular fantasy, zombie, and other fiction (which I also write and publish).

I'm a full-time writer.

[bbsucks]

I would contribute a dollar a month for a Ms. Liberty chapter every week. I'd do that in a second. Er... assuming patreon has some form of anonymity. That's always my biggest fear with backing patreon or kickstarter or whatever other crowd funding campaigns for anything related to this stuff. I don't really want my real name being publicly tied to these things. But I haven't really looked into it to know if that's a thing I even need to worry about.

But yeah. There are a few authors I consistently enjoy. If any of them went the patreon route, I'd be happy to support. AND if it allowed them to push things further, and produce regular content, I'd consider that a happy little bonus.

[KnightsofGotham.com]

I would contribute a dollar a month for a Ms. Liberty chapter every week. I'd do that in a second. Er... assuming patreon has some form of anonymity. That's always my biggest fear with backing patreon or kickstarter or whatever other crowd funding campaigns for anything related to this stuff. I don't really want my real name being publicly tied to these things. But I haven't really looked into it to know if that's a thing I even need to worry about.

But yeah. There are a few authors I consistently enjoy. If any of them went the patreon route, I'd be happy to support. AND if it allowed them to push things further, and produce regular content, I'd consider that a happy little bonus.

This is not my patreon campaign and I am not involved withit in any way shape or for.

Having said that allow me to ease your concerns.
I have 5 patreons and have had them for more than 8 montrhs.

When someone joins they are asked for two things.
1) your personal information
2) your card details

in regard to the personal info you can call yourself Harry Bigfootington from the black lodge, twin peaks, WaSHINGTON
AND IT WOULD ACCEPT ITT. THE MAJORITY OF MY PATRONS DONT WANT THEIR REAL NAMES OUT THERE. YOU CAN SELECT YOUR PREFERRED NAME
and go with that.
No problem.
Identity protected.
the other thing they want is your card info.
unfortunately this is not something you can fake.
it has to be real, but then again that information isnt being shared with the public.

If you have ever bought anything online (and i mean anything) this is the same thing as that.
its safe and secure.

hope this helps

[KnightsofGotham.com]

Just noticed the all caps section.
Sorry about that.
Wasnt watching the monitor as I was typing.
to lazy to edit and fix. sorry