Japanese style Superheroine Productions by USA Producers

The Dark Side Of Superheroine Peril Discussion - 18 and older.
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coulumbia
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I've been attracted to the production value and SHIP action done by Japanese Producers. I've bought and viewed several of these productions and am a bit frustrated that I it is in Japanese.... don't plan on learning the language to that level anytime soon ...

My question or comment is why aren't the producers in the US making any efforts to try and emulate some of the better Japanese films in the adult oriented SHIP genre. Even if you don't get to the full production value the J's are hitting, such as full costumes and well advanced set designs, the SHIP inter-action is great and something that is "doable". what I mean is that once they get the SH in their clutches the SHIP action they do can be done just as well by US producers. I think it is very hot and sexy SHIP Genre stuff! It really is great to watch and worth paying for (IF I could understand the dialogue, which is a great part of my enjoyment... not just watching what's going on).

Some producers get close to this, like Primal (who really seem, to do a great job IMHO) Anastasia Pierce, Christina Carter and maybe another one or two (? I'm sure there are others, but these are the ones that pop into my mind...I certainly don't mean to offend any producers) who really do put in the effort to have great sets and take the time develop higher production values, as well as some SHIP adult oriented stories (forced orgasm; blow jobs; simulated or real sex).... they all seem to be a bit lacking in what the Japanese are doing.

As far as I can tell, the Japanese story lines have a bit more dialogue development. They also have varied "action" being done to their captive Heroines. When it comes to "breaking" or interrogating their Heroines there seems to be a wider range of things done to them. There is a lot more breast/nipple play (sucking-which they like a lot) torture; a variety of orgasm torture; heroine humiliation; and they have some great forced sex scenes. They also vary the positions their SH captives are held.

I have enjoyed the US produced SHIP adult oriented videos (I frankly don't like videos which feature only beat-downs, punching and such... I enjoy the sexual torture fetish), but they seem to end up all being way too similar- Tied up SH pleasured with a Hitachi until they come to weaken them. Then they are sometimes forced to fuck. Don't get me wrong, there is some very hot and great quality work done on that subject alone (again Primal takes the cake for that...) but I'd like to see (and I've noted this before in some comments) a bit of dialogue variety and sexual torture variety in the US productions similar to the Japanese.

Why can't the US producers... for about the same monetary input (crews, equipment, model's time, editing...okay maybe a bit more editing might be needed... but not over-the-top) get a bit more variety in the SHIP bondage drama?

Am I way off base?.... Uninformed and lacking in knowledge of the US producers out there? Do others share this same thinking? Curious to know what others think about this... AND what do producers think about this?

Thanks in advance for reading and commenting.
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Heroine Addict
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It all boils down to time and money. Most of the English language SH videos are shot in a single day. Which is why dialogue is limited to a small bit of exposition followed by a few heroic or villainous clichés. The performers are usually paid a fixed rate for the day. So it's not as if they're spending a lot of time rehearsing lines.

Also, a lot of the convoluted technobabble in the fantasy genre is, to use the technical term, cunty to recite. Which eats into production time.

One of the studio-based producers such as Jim Weathers, Primal or Mighty Hypnotic could probably match the visual style of the Japanese videos. However, it would take several days to get each video shot.
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Mr. X
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Also look at Akiba-webs production schedule. They pour out dozens of movies, like 2 or 3 a week. also plot wise they are NOT that complicated. Nearly all of them get reduced to sex scenes in a warehouse. Same formula again and again. Same roof top. And they have a couple of sub producers making things.

I do agree they are more imaginative but they still just do the same thing over and over.
coulumbia
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Thanks for both your comments... Heroine Addict and Mr. X. Both good points.

HA-- True time is money and I agree the market Producers have means they have to make the "most" for the "least" and thus real scripted dialogue (writing, learning lines, re-takes {ha ha!} for missed lines, editing time) is prohibitive. BUT, feeding general themes or a bit of "inspired" spontaneous dialogue can be done by the director on-site. Why not add some dialogue to accompany the long scenes of forced orgasm, or the like? I'm not referring to technobabble (or what I think you mean as descriptive SHIP plot comments???)... but more in line to what's being done to the captive ( If I misunderstood you and you DID refer to that, sorry). I think it adds when there is verbal taunting to the victim... and when the victim reacts verbally as well.

Perhaps it's just my frustration at seeing a lot of the same thing (albeit very hot to see...) in a gorgeous superheroine tied up and being forced to orgasm etc. Along with the variation of the set, I'd like some dialogue to accompany the visuals. I understand the limitations, but as a fan I'm looking for some variety in what I'm watching as far as this stuff. I think Primal is doing a pretty good job of trying to vary the scenes, but I'd love to hear a bit more dialogue (BTW, I'm tempted to by their new Supergirl clip... it does seem to have a variety of scenes and hopefully there might be some added dialogue!).

Mr. X-- agree with your comment but ALL the SHIP genre more or less end up repeating and do the same thing over again... it is, for the most part what the fans want. Yet, the way the Japanese do the same thing over and over is still pretty creative... it isn't the same ware-house, nor the same action. There is a bit of variation how they torture/humiliate/break their captive. There also is dialogue... don't know what the f--k they are saying, but I'm sure it adds to the overall film.

Is it possible for the same cost in production fees and time on the set for the Producers to add some variations in what we see. I think the fans do want what eventually happens to the superheroine... somehow defeated (my preference is through sexual arousal/torture) by a villain/rival... I'd like some variety in that "journey" to get there.

Have the SH restrained in different ways (which, btw, I think they do... not really complaining about that... but there is some room for variety), have different things done to her... a scene of nipples being stimulated/tortured (I rarely an extended scene with this... besides a perfunctary tweak or the like... and I'm not talking about real painful stuff, but even just nipple play); a tease-denial session (great place to add spontaneous dialogue and extend a torturous scene); pain/pleasure combination; 2-on-1 sexual torture. I'm not saying that some of this stuff is not being done, but it seems few and far between to the straight forward, (non-dialogue) forced orgasm, BJ and sex. Of course as this stuff is being done spontaneous dialogue can be added... no real extra cost (?).

I know it isn't a piece of cake to make these productions and a lot can and will go wrong making it tough to work "out of the box". I work in mainstream production and I know there are a hell of a lot of things that can go wrong and fuck up a production day. YET, I don't think what I'm suggesting is too far fetched to accomplish.

NO insult intended to any producers... hard to really know what happens on set until you (me) stand in their shoes. And in reality.... Kudos to those producers out there trying to make a living, working hard and creating videos for us fans and thanks for all the hard work.

Question-- Should I have posted this discussion on a different part of the site for Producers to see???

Lastly, thanks in advance for those who took the time to read my comment.... really am curious to know if others agree or disagree.
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Kitten
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My views on this... which i admit, is just my opinion, so feel free to disagree with me (nicely)

Why producers should be able to do it.
It can be done. Giga does it. They've done the hard work for us, and pioneered the research for us. We just need to take advantage of it.

They have a 'formula' to crank out their videos. The formula works. It's no different from hollywood using a formula for action movies, or romantic comedies. It is, what it is. Producers should rejoice. The guess work is out on what works if they acknowledge the formula and follow it.

A while ago, Giga Videos were over a hundred dollars a video, while the most premium and expensive American counter parts were half that. Giga acknowledge this gap, and has halved their price and bought it down well into competitive numbers. They're now about 50 dollars a video. Still feeling steep, but it's usually for a video that's around 90 minutes long, so you're coming in well under a dollar a video.

As a counterpoint, there have been some American producers that have stepped up their game and produced better stuff.

Off the top of my head, i think we can all agree that Jim Weather's OGirl stuff at Bondage Cafe is top notch stuff, and at least as good as Giga's

So it's not that we can't produce the stuff. We just have a very broad field of producers which produces a equally broad sense of production value. If you want to see more of the 'good stuff', support those producers. Take your dollars, and go buy it, which is essentially your way of voting for the success of a good producer over their rival, but rewarding them with an excellent production.


Why producers can't do it.
Most of us aren't producers, so we really have no idea the cost, effort, time involved with getting this stuff done. Nor do we have any sense of what 'small' changes we do for the resource requirements to get them done. Then they have to consider the bottom line of, is the effort going to be worth the results of what they get back in sales.

Like anything, when you start something you're on a learning curve. Giga has been doing their thing for well over a decade. They've beaten down, outlasted, and even absorbed their competition (Gallop and Zeus). During that decade they've had an intense production schedule, that in recent history seems to have ramped up. They use to take over a year to put out a hundred titles, now they seem to do that in the span of a several months.

I doubt there is a producer of Superheroine peril that comes anywhere close to that experience. So they have it down pat. They have their shot locations. The roof, the dungeon, the park, etc, all scouted out and ready to film at. They have their (first rate) costume makers ready to go to fit actress/models. They have their distributin network and customer base well established.

They can do what they do, and stay in business.

Come on, if it was that easy, we would all be producers and making exactly what we want. We don't so that should tell you something about how hard it is to produce stuff.
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coulumbia wrote:Thanks for both your comments... Heroine Addict and Mr. X. Both good points.

HA-- True time is money and I agree the market Producers have means they have to make the "most" for the "least" and thus real scripted dialogue (writing, learning lines, re-takes {ha ha!} for missed lines, editing time) is prohibitive. BUT, feeding general themes or a bit of "inspired" spontaneous dialogue can be done by the director on-site. Why not add some dialogue to accompany the long scenes of forced orgasm, or the like? I'm not referring to technobabble (or what I think you mean as descriptive SHIP plot comments???)... but more in line to what's being done to the captive ( If I misunderstood you and you DID refer to that, sorry). I think it adds when there is verbal taunting to the victim... and when the victim reacts verbally as well.

Perhaps it's just my frustration at seeing a lot of the same thing (albeit very hot to see...) in a gorgeous superheroine tied up and being forced to orgasm etc. Along with the variation of the set, I'd like some dialogue to accompany the visuals. I understand the limitations, but as a fan I'm looking for some variety in what I'm watching as far as this stuff. I think Primal is doing a pretty good job of trying to vary the scenes, but I'd love to hear a bit more dialogue (BTW, I'm tempted to by their new Supergirl clip... it does seem to have a variety of scenes and hopefully there might be some added dialogue!).
By technobabble, I mean the sort of pseudoscientific or supernatural gobbledegook that explains all the super stuff in the story. It may seem perfectly straightforward to the writer who knows exactly what's going on in the world he or she created, but I expect it's a real nightmare for a performer who probably hasn't even seen the script before the day of the shoot.

Even with rehearsal time and a much longer shoot, the technobabble on Doctor Who was a daunting task for the late John Hurt. And he was one of the most respected screen actors in history.
http://www.blastr.com/2013-9-9/heres-wh ... doctor-who

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jigoku
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That's a good topic. I'm not american or japanese and I think japanese SHIB movies are great. Certainly because I do understand japanese language. Dialogues are great and much more deep than those in US movies. Japanes SHIB focus deeply on the humiliation aspect. Moreover, all characters have a solid background and that improve the tension in the peril scenes. Contrary to the US movies, japanese AV movies can stand between 80 and 260 minutes for the longer. And the most of the movies have prequels, sequels and spin-off with the same actresses. So they can make a good scenerio alike a TV show. But I think it's important to love japanese culture as well to understand the origins of some heroines.
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Heroine Addict wrote:It all boils down to time and money. Most of the English language SH videos are shot in a single day. Which is why dialogue is limited to a small bit of exposition followed by a few heroic or villainous clichés. The performers are usually paid a fixed rate for the day. So it's not as if they're spending a lot of time rehearsing lines.

Also, a lot of the convoluted technobabble in the fantasy genre is, to use the technical term, cunty to recite. Which eats into production time.

One of the studio-based producers such as Jim Weathers, Primal or Mighty Hypnotic could probably match the visual style of the Japanese videos. However, it would take several days to get each video shot.
We have looked at the Japanese productions and you are absolutely right. The amount of time put into camera angles and fight choreography would triple the time it takes to produce a video, and using xxx performers for that type of shoot wouldn't be at all practical.

We would have to have an entire separate line of production and book mainstream actors/Actresses. Since we produce xxx content we would have a lot of trouble even getting the performers booked with us.
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shevek
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I have watched a ton of Giga / Japanese SHIP flicks. They are generally pretty hot, although there are some costumes I like more than others. I love Spandexer so much I'm trying to figure out a way to put a cover version of her theme song into one of my vids (unfortunely I don't have a Japanese heroine planned, just a Chinese one).

Anyway...the Giga vids follow a formula but there are usually some build-up scenes, a nice transformation, tons of talking, and endless torturous positions. And of course (and this is something I think people forgot to mention) sometimes it crosses over with the giant monster/kaiju fighting genre, and then you have entire cardboard cities being destroyed, which NEVER happens in Western SHIP vids (the closest might be the occasional giantess/growth vid which rarely seems to involve a superheroine).

Kenna makes a good point how difficult it would be in the West to equal their production value. So..obviously there is some difference in the acting culture? I mean, there's no question they are using their own equivalent of porn stars, as I can't imagine a "mainstream" Japanese actress would endure all that sex and peril.

So does that mean that Japanese porn actresses are more skilled in combat, dialogue and working long shoot hours than American XXX actresses are?
Perhaps it simply comes down to work ethic and job expectations? It is my experience with Japanese underground music, at least, that they usually take American styles and make them more extreme, more intense, and more obsessive (the Japanese extreme noise scene, like Merzbow or Boredoms, being a good example). It seems to be a cultural signifier of Japan as a whole..they emerged from the ruins of WWII, by the 1970s were beating the West in the cost of consumer electronic products, and have since surpassed the West in the production of electronics, etc.

So maybe much the same can be said for Giga and anime/manga for that matter - they take American superhero tropes to the next level of extreme accomplishment and detail.

Just conjecturing here.
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Mr. X
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Giga dual purposes these videos. They also have a PG line in which all they show is the fight and defeat without nudity. so they kind of sell the video twice.
arkane
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This is not exactly about superheroines, but I've seen a couple of "combat videos" with whole squads of japanese babes in fetish uniforms or spandex costumes being exterminated in some futuristic or hand to hand battle.
Costumes, special effects, lots of models and actors, locations etc... amazing.
I really wonder how they find the money to do that....
jigoku
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The Japanese Superlady serie of movies is just a masterpiece. Many hours of great action, drama and peril scenes with very creative camera angles. Furthermore, most of the films are linked together with the same actress. The story is solid and the costumes are fantastics. I recommend it to all fans of Superheroine in Peril genre. I think the budget used to produce this kind of film is colossal.

Nevertheless, the US movies have something Japanese movies doesn't have. Blond actresses. Always better for a Supergirl heroine:)
I loves the first TBFE movie Avalon. Because the heroine was well introduced before the main scenes.
And the lenght was about one hour so it was like a true movie. Not a video but a movie. It just missed some erotic scenes. Among the US producers, Rye is my favorite.
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Mr. X
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jigoku wrote: Nevertheless, the US movies have something Japanese movies doesn't have. Blond actresses. Always better for a Supergirl heroine:)
I loves the first TBFE movie Avalon. Because the heroine was well introduced before the main scenes.
And the lenght was about one hour so it was like a true movie. Not a video but a movie. It just missed some erotic scenes. Among the US producers, Rye is my favorite.
Also voluptuousness and boobs. Yes Giga does have some busty girls but not a lot and some silicone would be nice. Most of their models tend to be the small girls, which again can be fun but its would be nice to see some more amazon/voluptuous women.
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