Really considering leaving this community/forum

The Home of Superheroine Underwater Peril films and other things
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jimbobklyn5
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I've been a member and part of this forum since 2012. Since then I have enjoyed being part of this community talking about Supergirl, Superheroines parody videos and etc. But here in the year of 2015/2016..I've seemed to have hit a wall on this forum and I have no idea why, which is the reason why I'm considering leaving this community. Over the past couple of months..I've posted about my fan film installments and other topics as well and I have begun to realize that I have not gotten any attention or feedback or interest from a majority of forum members for my fan film videos, its crowdfunding campaign or artwork posters or etc. Yet, the topic of discussion for most the year on this forum has been about Logan's behavior on his superheroines films and scamming fans and etc and that got way too much attention in my view and became a major turnoff to the point where others post and videos got ignored and etc. This is just my opinion of course and folks don't have to like it..but that's just my view

Also, As a co-producer of my own parody superheroine peril fan film series...I find it now more difficult to promote my work/future projects here on the forum because I feel that people here find it weird or hate it to the core or want to change it or hijack it to their own liking and as a creator of the series...I must say it has taken the fun out of doing these fan film installments anymore...which has been my biggest fear. Now, maybe its my depression or my stressed out brain that is doing most of the talking instead of my heart...but after the failure of the Supergirl VII: Unchained Indiegogo Crowdfunding Campaign..I feel that it is necessary for me to say how I feel and how disappointed I am. I make these fan films for fun and because I know a lot of people enjoy them...but what really is disappointing is that folks who do like the project then want to have there say and want some type of peril element put in the script (with the promise of contributing to the project's crowdfunding) and when its put in the script and excepted..the end result is those people who demand their say flake out.

This has become a major problem since 2015. Now, I'm not mad with anyone here at this forum and I'm not gonna go crazy and start cursing out anyone...I'm just letting out my frustrations and my feelings because it not fun coming to a superheroine forum where a majority of the community doesn't give its feedback either because (They think your a joke, they hate you and your work or boycotting/discrediting your work and etc for some reason). These are all the reason why I'm considering leaving this forum and this community altogether. What's the point of staying in a forum where you feel like your not wanted.

This is just the way I feeling at the moment.... :weep:
Last edited by jimbobklyn5 7 years ago, edited 1 time in total.
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WonderMan90
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Hey,
I'm so so sorry that you feel that way. But don't do that, I love your films and your news on here. And sorry for the delay of the film, I was going to do a donation but caught up with financial issue. But hopefully maybe on next week, I will be willing to donate for your film, cuz I really want to see this film. Please don't plan to leave cuz we fans like you here on this forum.
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I too would be sad to see you leave. Even when you aren't discussing your own projects, your comments on other threads are always worthwhile and thoughtful.

As for the lack of response to your own projects, that seems to be the nature of this site: so often it's a cricket-filled silence to the creative effort one makes. The rare comment is treasured of course but most times one has to take pleasure from the process itself. The writing, in my case, the screenwriting and producing in yours. You have the disadvantage of having to compile money to see your vision to its completion. Writers simply have to put their own time into their work. Yours is the harder road, I'm sure, especially since you seem to get more than your fair share of negative feedback.

On the positive side of things, you have created a legacy of interesting videos that have brought a lot of pleasure to a lot of people even though many of them haven't chimed in to say so. I hope you persevere, especially since the upcoming script sounds like one of your best yet! Best of luck to you whatever you decide.
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jimbobklyn5
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DrDominator9 wrote:I too would be sad to see you leave. Even when you aren't discussing your own projects, your comments on other threads are always worthwhile and thoughtful.

As for the lack of response to your own projects, that seems to be the nature of this site: so often it's a cricket-filled silence to the creative effort one makes. The rare comment is treasured of course but most times one has to take pleasure from the process itself. The writing, in my case, the screenwriting and producing in yours. You have the disadvantage of having to compile money to see your vision to its completion. Writers simply have to put their own time into their work. Yours is the harder road, I'm sure, especially since you seem to get more than your fair share of negative feedback.

On the positive side of things, you have created a legacy of interesting videos that have brought a lot of pleasure to a lot of people even though many of them haven't chimed in to say so. I hope you persevere, especially since the upcoming script sounds like one of your best yet! Best of luck to you whatever you decide.
Thanks, Doc. Its just been a very frustrating situation with the lack of any feedback or financial support from this forum. The crowdfunding angle to get this films and other film has been extremely frustrating...but that's the only option and way to get these films funded. Mind you, these films are freebies and I never intended to make money off of it. Most would say its a bad business decision..but I'm not about business..I'm all about thinking outside the box, doing something different and having fan creating it. Now I know a lot of people have bills to pay and priorities to deal with..but again, a little bit goes a long way...I also know that a lot of people frown upon crowdfunding angle of funding a superheroine peril video--but sometimes...especially when it comes to my fan film series...this is the only option. And it is a very hard road. As for the negative feedback..that stem for folks frowning upon the crowdfunding campaigns (Which is the only option) and also folks saying that i don't give them their say on the script/project. But when I do open the door for folks to have their say/suggestion...I end up holding the bag and that's not a good feeling at all.

So again, my hope is that I will continue to do these fan film installments of my fan film series but after the failure of the Supergirl 7 crowdfunding campaign due to the lack of funding and feedback. Its the reason why I've been thinking about leaving this community. Now, the paypal option (which surprising seems to work and come in handy after the crowdfunding campaign ends) will remain open... and folks can send their donations/contributions via paypal to [email protected]. 100% of the money/funds goes directly to the fan film project. That's the angle/option I will be going with...

Anyway, I really do appreciate your continuing support, Doc. Your words of encouragement really helps me a lot and help me to feel good about myself and the films I do. But again, I certain hope to get some feedback on this forum on my projects and etc in the future and not feel like I'm not wanted here.
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jimbobklyn5
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WonderMan90 wrote:Hey,
I'm so so sorry that you feel that way. But don't do that, I love your films and your news on here. And sorry for the delay of the film, I was going to do a donation but caught up with financial issue. But hopefully maybe on next week, I will be willing to donate for your film, cuz I really want to see this film. Please don't plan to leave cuz we fans like you here on this forum.
Hey, Wonderman90. I really do appreciate the support and kind words...
Again, I understand your situation and everyone else situation when it comes to financial issues...
As for the delay..its an unfortunate situation that I certainly hope will clear itself out in the coming weeks..because if not...it will effect next year's slate of fan film installments which will include "Superwoman: A New Dawn & Supergirl 8: Avenging Force" That's the situation we're dealing with. Now as you know..The paypal option will remain open until the Super girl 7 film gets fully funded and you can send your contributions via paypal to [email protected]. 100% of the money/funds goes directly to the fan film project. The Supergirl 7 project needs $2,180 of funding to be fully funded and as of right now..it only has $41.00.

So, again..when you decide to send a contribution donation to help fund Supergirl 7, you can send it via paypal to [email protected].

As for staying on this forum, its something that has crossed my mine over the last couple of months..not only because of the lack of feedback and etc...it also the type of things the majority of the forum is intersted in talking about and etc. The Logan's Superheroines topic..it should of ended a long time ago..but instead...that thread lasted almost a year and other topic threads were ignore (including my threads). Not trying to sound like a big baby..but it really bothered me to realize that more people are more interested in continuing talking about a scam artist producer who screwed a lot of superheroine peril film fans to the ground than producers like me promoting their future projects and etc or others posting up any topic about the genre.

It all just rubbed me the wrong way and did not make feel good or even welcomed in the forum. Sure, this forum has changed since I joined it back in 2013..but its suppose to change for the best..not the worst.

Now, I'm not insulting anybody or anyone on this forum..I'm just expressing how I feel because I find that Its just not fun coming to this forum anymore...especially, when you end feeling like your talking to the wall or being boycotted or something. Again, that's just the way I'm feeling.

Anyway, I look forward to your future contribution to the Supergirl 7 fan film and i do appreciate your continuing support, Wonderman 90. Take care
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I'm really sorry you feel that way Jim.

It just seems to be the nature of the beast unfortunately. Knights of Gotham is struggling to get interest for his Patreon project, Bluestone mentioned he only had 12 backers for his crowdfunding efforts, and to echo Dr Doms post earlier as a writer I get approx 6,000 views a month over my 15 stories or so here and I am lucky if I get a single comment and then its only against the very latest story, and its usually the same 2 or 3 guys (fellow writers) who pipe up. There are 24,000+ members here and whilst a lot are defunct memberships there are still a few thousand I would guess who are current members yet its the same 100 or so names who actively post - the rest are just lurkers who for whatever reason don't post and join in. I certainly wouldn't take it personally, though I understand its hard not to. You are absolutely right about the Logan thread, it was just car crash tv, and I can understand your frustration.

I hope you reconsider and stay part of the community, and if you do feel its changing for the worst then please stay and contribute to change it for the better. (and that message is to any and all who may feel the same, and to any non posters, please join in!)
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Hi Jimbobklyn,

I am sat here now really struggling to find the right words to help you. In a small sense your problem is one shared by everyone who "produces" stuff (especially FREE stuff!), whether it be writers of stories like DrDominator9 as above or producers of quite clever artwork like TormentorX. I am sure they, like you, feel the vacuum of attention and probably wonder at times what they have done wrong when their work is met by relative silence or is deposed by topics that appear on the surface to not contribute anything at all. I can see however that in your case, relative to your participation within the genre the absence of reward appears to be disproportionate.

How you get around these shortcomings with the community, I do not know. I only know that in my case I persevere with what I do and hope for the occasional scrap of feedback. Whatever you choose to do I hope you have success with it but hope you maintain your contact with the forum. But even if you were to quit the genre today you will always be able to say you were a significant contributor to the scene, no one can take that away from you.

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Abductorenmadrid wrote:Hi Jimbobklyn,

I am sat here now really struggling to find the right words to help you. In a small sense your problem is one shared by everyone who "produces" stuff (especially FREE stuff!), whether it be writers of stories like DrDominator9 as above or producers of quite clever artwork like TormentorX. I am sure they, like you, feel the vacuum of attention and probably wonder at times what they have done wrong when their work is met by relative silence or is deposed by topics that appear on the surface to not contribute anything at all. I can see however that in your case, relative to your participation within the genre the absence of reward appears to be disproportionate.

How you get around these shortcomings with the community, I do not know. I only know that in my case I persevere with what I do and hope for the occasional scrap of feedback. Whatever you choose to do I hope you have success with it but hope you maintain your contact with the forum. But even if you were to quit the genre today you will always be able to say you were a significant contributor to the scene, no one can take that away from you.

AEM
Thanks, AEM...i really do appreciate it the words or wisdom/advice. Its a difficult situation for me..which is the reason why I'm feeling the way I'm feeling about this forum. Will see what happens along the way in this forum... Again, i hope I didn't insult everyone here at this forum..because that wasn't my intent. Its just a frustrating situation for me at the moment :(
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I'd like to add a few words in here. It's taken a while to fully understand the nature of this forum and not everyone is going to be vocal about every project. Most fans don't like to work backwards. They want to see a finished product and if they are interested they make a purchase. Most are also not vocal. They either like something or they don't but maybe a better question to ask is, why not? Why aren't people talking? Why aren't people more excited about my project? Am I doing something wrong? Do they like my actresses? The plot? Should I change anything?

You have gotten much better at accepting feedback and ideas but there was a time when you didn't. Perhaps some people were put off by that. I understand it was all part of the growth of your projects but again, sometimes you have to ask the hard questions.

As for the Logan thread, I agree with you. It went too long and it won't happen again. It was a waste of time for everyone and went nowhere. But that was an anomaly and I also agree it did take some of the focus away from other threads which is why I ended it.

We would all hate to see you go, maybe you need to take a breather and a few days off and think about everything.
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tallyho wrote:I'm really sorry you feel that way Jim.

It just seems to be the nature of the beast unfortunately. Knights of Gotham is struggling to get interest for his Patreon project, Bluestone mentioned he only had 12 backers for his crowdfunding efforts, and to echo Dr Doms post earlier as a writer I get approx 6,000 views a month over my 15 stories or so here and I am lucky if I get a single comment and then its only against the very latest story, and its usually the same 2 or 3 guys (fellow writers) who pipe up. There are 24,000+ members here and whilst a lot are defunct memberships there are still a few thousand I would guess who are current members yet its the same 100 or so names who actively post - the rest are just lurkers who for whatever reason don't post and join in. I certainly wouldn't take it personally, though I understand its hard not to. You are absolutely right about the Logan thread, it was just car crash tv, and I can understand your frustration.

I hope you reconsider and stay part of the community, and if you do feel its changing for the worst then please stay and contribute to change it for the better. (and that message is to any and all who may feel the same, and to any non posters, please join in!)
Sorry for the late response..thanks, tallyho. It a lot to think about when it comes to my place here at the forum. But i will definitely keep your words in mind and will think about it.
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jimbobklyn5
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MightyHypnotic wrote:I'd like to add a few words in here. It's taken a while to fully understand the nature of this forum and not everyone is going to be vocal about every project. Most fans don't like to work backwards. They want to see a finished product and if they are interested they make a purchase. Most are also not vocal. They either like something or they don't but maybe a better question to ask is, why not? Why aren't people talking? Why aren't people more excited about my project? Am I doing something wrong? Do they like my actresses? The plot? Should I change anything?

You have gotten much better at accepting feedback and ideas but there was a time when you didn't. Perhaps some people were put off by that. I understand it was all part of the growth of your projects but again, sometimes you have to ask the hard questions.

As for the Logan thread, I agree with you. It went too long and it won't happen again. It was a waste of time for everyone and went nowhere. But that was an anomaly and I also agree it did take some of the focus away from other threads which is why I ended it.

We would all hate to see you go, maybe you need to take a breather and a few days off and think about everything.

Thanks Mighty for the advice you have given me. I guess my frustration stems from the wish that more people on this forum would be more vocal and supportive when it comes to either my projects or topic of discussions. Yes, I do agree...I was very stubborn when it came to letting folks have their say in my films...maybe because i feared that folks would hijack it and stuff...but i finally did open the door to people's feedback...but again, the fact that Supergirl 7 crowdfunding was a failure is really head scratching to me. Again, i do understand that many folks want to see a finished project and are not fans for funding for a project that haven't seen...but in my case..it has to be that way for a number of reasons..plus the fact that I've done 8 films with Supergirl 7 (being the 9th one)..i know folks not only have watched it but also have seen the improvements in the films...especially in the special effects department. But, again...maybe my head is running around in circles with this..but i will definite take your advice and take a break for a while from this forum and recharged my batteries..but to be honest with you...I'm mentally drained and frustrated from this whole situation. :(

Thanks for the advice, Mighty.
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Mamooche24
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Here's my two cents:

I'm sure you're a cool guy, and I respect your hustle with making your videos. You clearly have a passion for them. It's just that, to me, all of your posts are incredibly long winded man lol

It's just a daunting amount of paragraphs and text. I see that and I instantly tune it out. Don't take this like I'm mocking you or anything; it's simply constructive criticism.
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Also, the content of your films has never been my taste. Especially since they are a tad repetitive, and your current choice of model isn't exactly up to my personal preference.
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jimbobklyn5
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Mamooche24 wrote:Here's my two cents:

I'm sure you're a cool guy, and I respect your hustle with making your videos. You clearly have a passion for them. It's just that, to me, all of your posts are incredibly long winded man lol

It's just a daunting amount of paragraphs and text. I see that and I instantly tune it out. Don't take this like I'm mocking you or anything; it's simply constructive criticism.
I appreciate your feedback...I do realize that my posts are long..but that;s only because i want to get the point and details across. But again, I do apologize for that and will try to short up my posts as much as I can. As for the films, I have always said that these films will always fall into the category of like them or not like them...it is very understandable your opinion because this is the type of superheroine peril that hasn't been done before and folks will feel that it is odd and etc. Again, this type of superheroine peril fan film series isn't fro everyone and will probably not satisfy people's taste and i do understand it.

As for the models, again..everyone has their opinion when it comes to the actress whether they like them or not...again totally understandable. So, i do appreciate your feedback, Mamooche24 and I also appreciate your opinion.
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peter75
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Jimbobkln5...

First off, the term FanFilm screams cheaply done and poorly produced. Doesn't resonate with me when
it comes to $$$. I may watch it if it's free on youtube but won't spend a dime on it.

Second, I just don't understand the concept of crowdfunding. Just look at the marketplace. There is simply
too much great content out there being produced weekly. For customers, it is already a risk to buy something with
a few preview pics hoping it is their cup of tea and money's worth. But asking people to just throw hard earned money
at you sight unseen? Why would anybody do that?

Also, I have disagreed with Mamooche on several things (no pantyhose > pantyhose the main thing)
However this time, I agree with him.

Your models are just not up to par w/ TBFE, Rye, Primal or 80% of other producers out there.
To be competitive, that's the first thing which needs an upgrade.

My advice...if you don't have the money to make your own movie and still want to work in this genre, then I would do one of two things...
1. Join a producer who does. Assist in creating great material. Learn more of the business and then one day take another shot on your own.
2. Get out of the business and move on.

If your work is not resonating with people, that means you are doing something wrong. So instead of complaining on
this forum, try taking a look at the successful producers out there and take some notes.
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jimbobklyn5
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peter75 wrote:Jimbobkln5...

First off, the term FanFilm screams cheaply done and poorly produced. Doesn't resonate with me when
it comes to $$$. I may watch it if it's free on youtube but won't spend a dime on it.

Second, I just don't understand the concept of crowdfunding. Just look at the marketplace. There is simply
too much great content out there being produced weekly. For customers, it is already a risk to buy something with
a few preview pics hoping it is their cup of tea and money's worth. But asking people to just throw hard earned money
at you sight unseen? Why would anybody do that?

Also, I have disagreed with Mamooche on several things (no pantyhose > pantyhose the main thing)
However this time, I agree with him.

Your models are just not up to par w/ TBFE, Rye, Primal or 80% of other producers out there.
To be competitive, that's the first thing which needs an upgrade.

My advice...if you don't have the money to make your own movie and still want to work in this genre, then I would do one of two things...
1. Join a producer who does. Assist in creating great material. Learn more of the business and then one day take another shot on your own.
2. Get out of the business and move on.

If your work is not resonating with people, that means you are doing something wrong. So instead of complaining on
this forum, try taking a look at the successful producers out there and take some notes.
Couple of things to point out, peter75...i'll start with the models. I disagree when you say that the models are just not up to par with other producers...in my view, they all are top notch. Maybe this is bias on my part. Secondly, all the models/actress that have been part of this fan film have all taken risk doing these films because of safety...These films are not easy to make, produce and perform. Thirdly, Kaycee Anne who has been Supergirl since 2015 taking over for Jac Ledoux has been the best thing that has happened to this series..she has done more peril elements then Jac which is a huge plus and we plan to stick with her. Now again, I really don't know in what term you mean when you say..the models are not up to par with Rye, TBFE...but, I'll just leave that part for now.

As for the crowdfunding subject...it is a tricky situation when it comes to this subject..but for me it has worked from 2013 to this year---8 film installments have been made thanks to the crowdfunding contributions..not to mention the paypal option remaining open also helps.... And it the best option when it comes to a non-profit fan film series. As for the term "Fan-Film"...that is the point of this series, plus these film installment are extremely low budget.

I want to make this clear...I don't do this for profit..I do it for fun because it has never been done before and its fun trying to add and create different scenarios and peril elements whether its above water peril or underwater peril.

Also, the series has been very successful to the point where a spin off was created and a third spin off is planned for 2017 or 2018.

Again, maybe its timing or etc of maybe its the reason why the Supergirl 7 crowdfunding results were poor. But it also could be that folks have bills and other thing to pay..i have always understood that. But again, this is the situation at hand.

Again, I'm not offended by anything you have said Peter75 and I do appreciate your opinion and feedback. its something for me to think about along the way. This is my 3rd year co producing these films and its still a very tough position to be in.
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sugarcoater
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I think that initial reaction at the opening of the above post might be a reason for your misunderstanding. The risk taken by the models is irrelevant to the issue at hand. I'm sure the models did take a risk, but what does that have to do with the way fans see the models used.
As for the models being up to par, perhaps a poll would prove you right or wrong, but my guess is that the likes of Coco, Alexis, Cassidy, Tiffany, and a few others used by Rye, TBFE, and Bluestone would garner significantly more votes or preference in comparison to the ones you have used. And there's nothing wrong with that! Some directors can access more talent or have more models from which to choose. It's not a matter of fault, it's just what is out there.
I think in 2008 your videos were close to on par with all the rest. But over the next eight years, some producers have evolved into what we have seen now from Rye, TBFE, Bluestone, and a few others. Perhaps it's because those directors took a greater risk and put significant funds into their venture.
Timing might also be an issue. Bluestone has also started a fund, so that might conflict with yours.
I don't intend my post to be harsh, just a perspective since you're looking for fans to contribute. Big time kudos to you for taking a chance and producing some quality work. But if you have to find a raison d'être through a thread, perhaps it is time to retire. You should enjoy the process or turn a profit. If neither one is happening, why continue? You deserve better.
Wishing you the best in whatever you choose. Good luck Jim!
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peter75 wrote: Second, I just don't understand the concept of crowdfunding. Just look at the marketplace. There is simply
too much great content out there being produced weekly. For customers, it is already a risk to buy something with
a few preview pics hoping it is their cup of tea and money's worth. But asking people to just throw hard earned money
at you sight unseen? Why would anybody do that?
I'm not a fan of crowdfunding (not entirely sure why, the modern world was built on it and we rely on it for our pensions in the form of stock exchanges), however it seems like producers are struggling to carry all the commercial risk up front of these niche films. You can see this with the funding experiments Bluestone and Knights of Gotham are trying, Primul have been saying for a while that they are struggling to be profitable in their heroine lines and even TBFE's recent films are marked up as custom/producer hybrids.

It seems that fans either need to accept some change or watch the genre shrink to a handful of providers providing tick the box peril.
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Jim, the production values are really, really poor. You're producing a fan film, your competition are along the lines of "Batgirl: Spoiled" - production values need to be boosted massively to compete in the fan film lane.

It's different if you're producing a fetish film, however the fetish crowd is much smaller - and it will always be an uphill fight to get funding via crowdfunding.

Being more successful is a double edged sword however, this would likely get you noticed by DC and you would get takedown notices for everything since they're producing a Supergirl series of their own.

.

You're attempting to produce Fan-Films in the wrong way. Fan films are produced for favours - for free, perhaps you pay locations and costs associated with production like camera rental. However, cast and crew do the job because they are invested in the concept - for the love of the work.

Case in point - Batgirl: Spoiled.

The minute you start a fanfilm where you're paying cast and crew is the minute that fan film franchise is doomed to failure.
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lionbadger wrote:
peter75 wrote: Second, I just don't understand the concept of crowdfunding. Just look at the marketplace. There is simply
too much great content out there being produced weekly. For customers, it is already a risk to buy something with
a few preview pics hoping it is their cup of tea and money's worth. But asking people to just throw hard earned money
at you sight unseen? Why would anybody do that?
I'm not a fan of crowdfunding (not entirely sure why, the modern world was built on it and we rely on it for our pensions in the form of stock exchanges), however it seems like producers are struggling to carry all the commercial risk up front of these niche films. You can see this with the funding experiments Bluestone and Knights of Gotham are trying, Primul have been saying for a while that they are struggling to be profitable in their heroine lines and even TBFE's recent films are marked up as custom/producer hybrids.

It seems that fans either need to accept some change or watch the genre shrink to a handful of providers providing tick the box peril.
Not only that..but also these superheroines parody films are being uploaded onto illegal freesharing sites which is becoming a HUGE issue in this community and the fetish community.

Now up till this project...the crowdfunding campaigns have been successful from 2013 to this Summer...even if it didn't reach 100% of its goal...the fans of my series always got in contact with me to find out if they could use paypal to send their contributions (Since the indiegogo campaigns are connected to paypal)

To me, the crowdfunding angle is the right way to go because of the current situations that are occurring in this genre. Even though the Supergirl 7 crowdfunding was a huge disappointment...the past ones have worked and been successful. The hope is the fans of the superheroine begin to embrace the crowdfunding angle--- otherwise--like you said the genre will shrink dramatically.
:supes: Watch all of W.O.N/MMP's Superheroine World Underwater Peril Fan Film Series, only on W.O.N Cinema YouTube Channel: www.youtube.com/woncinema
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swampy170 wrote:Jim, the production values are really, really poor. You're producing a fan film, your competition are along the lines of "Batgirl: Spoiled" - production values need to be boosted massively to compete in the fan film lane.

It's different if you're producing a fetish film, however the fetish crowd is much smaller - and it will always be an uphill fight to get funding via crowdfunding.

Being more successful is a double edged sword however, this would likely get you noticed by DC and you would get takedown notices for everything since they're producing a Supergirl series of their own.

.

You're attempting to produce Fan-Films in the wrong way. Fan films are produced for favours - for free, perhaps you pay locations and costs associated with production like camera rental. However, cast and crew do the job because they are invested in the concept - for the love of the work.

Case in point - Batgirl: Spoiled.

The minute you start a fanfilm where you're paying cast and crew is the minute that fan film franchise is doomed to failure.
Here's what i will say about your statement, swampy170 and once again, I do appreciate your feedback. When I first started this back in 2013...my plan was to do one film and the question was how to fund it...the answer was crowdfunding. I also knew the risk I was taking when it came down to funding a comic book fan film using a character owned by DC/WB. I knew the risk when Batgirl: Spoiled was shut down back in 2012...but I had to take a chance and the crowdfunding worked and has worked ever since (Despite hitting a wall with Supergirl 7 for the very first time).

Now, I disagree with you when it come to comparing competition are along the lines of "Batgirl: Spoiled"
In my view, my fan film series doesn't even come close to it to it. Batgirl: Spoiled was a top notch fan film series which looked like Hollywood quality...which is the main reason why DC/WB shut them down. If the fan film series looks way to good, especially in DC/WB..they will shut them down. Again, from personal experience...even though a majority of folks are not fans of the crowdfunding angle when it comes to funding superheroine films..the angle works. As for production values...when it comes to a very low budget film like mine...you have to deal with some things and make it work...Now, I know that these films are not Hollywood...but if you have watched the last two films...the production values are slowly improving---especially in the SFX department. I had stated that it was going to take time to improve the quality of these films..even if they were low budget.

As for the topic of fan film or fetish film..I have always stated that this series is in between both Fan Film and fetish film. Now, this fan film series was never intended to be a fetish film..but it does touch on that genre a lot in the series. Mainly because all the film touch on both subjects...a lot of people have an underwater fetish..some even have a chloroform fetish. I can mention more..but that would probably take all night..but i think you understand.

Also, I want to make it clear that MMP Studios does most of the filming in Florida. So the production fee, travel fees (Sometimes) and actress fees goes directly to MMP)...while I (my production company) do additional filming of sights and sounds here in NYC, editing and developing here in NYC as well.

Again, I don't agree with a lot you said in you statement...but again, I do appreciate your feedback, swampy170
:supes: Watch all of W.O.N/MMP's Superheroine World Underwater Peril Fan Film Series, only on W.O.N Cinema YouTube Channel: www.youtube.com/woncinema
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Hang in there Jimbobklyn5, your fan films are awesome! I really enjoyed Twilight Zone: The deadly Admirer Of Supergirl and Supergirl IV; The Submerged Tangled Web.You are a legend of "The Ultimate Superheroine Forum!
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MightyHypnotic wrote:I'd like to add a few words in here. It's taken a while to fully understand the nature of this forum and not everyone is going to be vocal about every project. Most fans don't like to work backwards. They want to see a finished product and if they are interested they make a purchase. Most are also not vocal. They either like something or they don't but maybe a better question to ask is, why not? Why aren't people talking? Why aren't people more excited about my project? Am I doing something wrong? Do they like my actresses? The plot? Should I change anything?

You have gotten much better at accepting feedback and ideas but there was a time when you didn't. Perhaps some people were put off by that. I understand it was all part of the growth of your projects but again, sometimes you have to ask the hard questions.

As for the Logan thread, I agree with you. It went too long and it won't happen again. It was a waste of time for everyone and went nowhere. But that was an anomaly and I also agree it did take some of the focus away from other threads which is why I ended it.

We would all hate to see you go, maybe you need to take a breather and a few days off and think about everything.
You make a great point. I personally am more inclined to invest in a product that is out and there is apreview or review out for it. Also my tastes are always changing and it helps to switch up actresses and characters too. I think the fact that Jim made it to a 7th supergirl video is a testimate to the fact that it is a product that customers enjoy but maybe its time to change it up. The longest running shows on tv are the ones unafraid to evolve. Maybe a new fresh idea will attract new interest because it could just be that 6 supergirl fan films have left fans of that content. Give them something newto crave. Best of luck! :ww1:
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lionbadger wrote: You can see this with the funding experiments Bluestone and Knights of Gotham are trying, Primul have been saying for a while that they are struggling to be profitable in their heroine lines and even TBFE's recent films are marked up as custom/producer hybrids.
I normally wouldn't jump into another producers thread but this has been the third time someone has used our company use of crowd funding insinuating that its hard to fund films.

I feel I need to point out that we are not hurting for money
the super heroine sales are doing fantastically well for us.
And unlike other producers we have never said we are giving if the funding isn't there.

Our Patreon was built in an attempt to offer a source of movies to those who cannot regularly afford 20-30 on one film.

for years I have been hearing that producers are charging too much wether its the well established $1 a minute model or the $1.5 per minute model.

Years of people wishing that things were more affordable.

I haven't switched my model. its still $1 a minute but I started the Patreon to offer an affordable option to those people.
oddly enough I do also sell that Patreon movie at Clips4Sale at the $1 a minute model and so far its been making us extra money.

So far the C4S sales have covered the cost of production and even gathered a small profit so the Patreon movies being offered aren't costing us anything to produce and still we are seeing very little traction.

I am fully willing to let it ride, but all Im looking for is feedback. especially from those who after three months of delivering on my side of the promise won't pull the trigger. Ive seen the films sell but not be funded.
there is a part of me that feels if I just sit and wait there will slowly be growth, and Im sure that would be the case....but whats missing for me is the feedback.

As for this thread.....
Jumbo you have three options.
1) Change ow you release these movies. film a second version that would be sold on C4S and have more fetish elements, release the fan film on youtube with the fetish removed so it doesn't jive with the TOS and link to the C4S store for purchase of the full movie. that should help in funding the next movie

2) stop asking for crowdfunding and just fund them and release them for people to enjoy

3) quit.

In regards to Blue and the massive amounts of money he's getting.... well look at the project he's releasing.
In all honesty the films you release for free and the films I produce aren't on the same level as his.
The quality, production and FX in his films are far out of our range.

And while Im spending $900- $2800 on costumes I'm still making that back in sales so its not an issue for us.

You are making these for fun.
and thats honorable.
but you also have to realize that the stories are very similar in formula and that gets old....even for a free project

but chin up man.....
you're doing better than me as i have been banging my head against the wall asking for input from people and my threads go all but ignored.
My movies are selling, and in some cases selling very well, but Im not getting any input as to how to improve.
At least your thread is getting traction and you should be incredibly happy about that because you seem to be getting the one thing Im dying for..... interaction
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jimbobklyn5 wrote:
lionbadger wrote:
peter75 wrote: Second, I just don't understand the concept of crowdfunding. Just look at the marketplace. There is simply
too much great content out there being produced weekly. For customers, it is already a risk to buy something with
a few preview pics hoping it is their cup of tea and money's worth. But asking people to just throw hard earned money
at you sight unseen? Why would anybody do that?
I'm not a fan of crowdfunding (not entirely sure why, the modern world was built on it and we rely on it for our pensions in the form of stock exchanges), however it seems like producers are struggling to carry all the commercial risk up front of these niche films. You can see this with the funding experiments Bluestone and Knights of Gotham are trying, Primul have been saying for a while that they are struggling to be profitable in their heroine lines and even TBFE's recent films are marked up as custom/producer hybrids.

It seems that fans either need to accept some change or watch the genre shrink to a handful of providers providing tick the box peril.
Not only that..but also these superheroines parody films are being uploaded onto illegal freesharing sites which is becoming a HUGE issue in this community and the fetish community.

Now up till this project...the crowdfunding campaigns have been successful from 2013 to this Summer...even if it didn't reach 100% of its goal...the fans of my series always got in contact with me to find out if they could use paypal to send their contributions (Since the indiegogo campaigns are connected to paypal)

To me, the crowdfunding angle is the right way to go because of the current situations that are occurring in this genre. Even though the Supergirl 7 crowdfunding was a huge disappointment...the past ones have worked and been successful. The hope is the fans of the superheroine begin to embrace the crowdfunding angle--- otherwise--like you said the genre will shrink dramatically.
The free sites are a huge problem all over, not just in the superheroine genre either. Bondage models, other fetish models, small porn producers, all have complained and spoken out about the illegal free sites.

And I am gonna say it to everyone out there and I'll offend you if you fit this description but I really don't care.

To everyone reading this: If you are one of these people uploading videos to these free sites, you are one of the biggest reasons we are losing producers and material and you are ruining this genre for everyone else. So stop it!

Rant over.
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Blue-Scion wrote:
MightyHypnotic wrote:I'd like to add a few words in here. It's taken a while to fully understand the nature of this forum and not everyone is going to be vocal about every project. Most fans don't like to work backwards. They want to see a finished product and if they are interested they make a purchase. Most are also not vocal. They either like something or they don't but maybe a better question to ask is, why not? Why aren't people talking? Why aren't people more excited about my project? Am I doing something wrong? Do they like my actresses? The plot? Should I change anything?

You have gotten much better at accepting feedback and ideas but there was a time when you didn't. Perhaps some people were put off by that. I understand it was all part of the growth of your projects but again, sometimes you have to ask the hard questions.

As for the Logan thread, I agree with you. It went too long and it won't happen again. It was a waste of time for everyone and went nowhere. But that was an anomaly and I also agree it did take some of the focus away from other threads which is why I ended it.

We would all hate to see you go, maybe you need to take a breather and a few days off and think about everything.
You make a great point. I personally am more inclined to invest in a product that is out and there is apreview or review out for it. Also my tastes are always changing and it helps to switch up actresses and characters too. I think the fact that Jim made it to a 7th supergirl video is a testimate to the fact that it is a product that customers enjoy but maybe its time to change it up. The longest running shows on tv are the ones unafraid to evolve. Maybe a new fresh idea will attract new interest because it could just be that 6 supergirl fan films have left fans of that content. Give them something newto crave. Best of luck! :ww1:
First of all I appreciate you feedback and say on this topic, Blue-Scion. Now when it comes to changing things up..you may have notice that in Supergirl 6...th efilm had mostly non-water peril element which was suggested to me by some folks here at the forum..although I was inclined to move into that direction..I feel that it was the right thing to do...because you are right...some things can get old pretty quickly especially if it involves the same peril element over and over...its good to change it up and add new things to it and Supergirl 6 is a perfect example of changing things up, the film had more non water peril than underwater peril and also had flying elements as well which was the most requested element folks wanted to see in future films and even though it took time to add those elements..it was accomplished. Now even though this is a superheroine underwater peril fan film series...the plan is to add more and more non-water peril elements in these installments which have been requested and Supergirl 7 will indeed for into that category.

As for changing actresses, the plan was to end the series under Jac Ledoux in Supergirl 6...but she had bowed out the series because of some personal things. She did say that she would be happy to come back to play Supergirl in future installments...but when Kaycee Anne took over for Jac in 2015 starting with Supergirl 5...it changed this series dramatically and its popular grew. So changing the actress to play Supergirl wasn't planned..but it did occurred and it really helped this series.

Also, I will admit I'm surprised the series has gone this far as well 6 Supergirl installments...not to mention that a spinoff was created combining the twilight zone with superheroes--2 installments in that series as well. That's a total of 8 videos done. Not to mention, a third spinoff is planned as well. So, again..I have always be open to evolving and changing things for the good of this series and will continue to do so. Once again, thanks for the feedback and your opinion on things, Blue-Scion
:supes: Watch all of W.O.N/MMP's Superheroine World Underwater Peril Fan Film Series, only on W.O.N Cinema YouTube Channel: www.youtube.com/woncinema
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KnightsofGotham.com wrote:
lionbadger wrote: You can see this with the funding experiments Bluestone and Knights of Gotham are trying, Primul have been saying for a while that they are struggling to be profitable in their heroine lines and even TBFE's recent films are marked up as custom/producer hybrids.
I normally wouldn't jump into another producers thread but this has been the third time someone has used our company use of crowd funding insinuating that its hard to fund films.

I feel I need to point out that we are not hurting for money
the super heroine sales are doing fantastically well for us.
And unlike other producers we have never said we are giving if the funding isn't there.

Our Patreon was built in an attempt to offer a source of movies to those who cannot regularly afford 20-30 on one film.

for years I have been hearing that producers are charging too much wether its the well established $1 a minute model or the $1.5 per minute model.

Years of people wishing that things were more affordable.

I haven't switched my model. its still $1 a minute but I started the Patreon to offer an affordable option to those people.
oddly enough I do also sell that Patreon movie at Clips4Sale at the $1 a minute model and so far its been making us extra money.

So far the C4S sales have covered the cost of production and even gathered a small profit so the Patreon movies being offered aren't costing us anything to produce and still we are seeing very little traction.

I am fully willing to let it ride, but all Im looking for is feedback. especially from those who after three months of delivering on my side of the promise won't pull the trigger. Ive seen the films sell but not be funded.
there is a part of me that feels if I just sit and wait there will slowly be growth, and Im sure that would be the case....but whats missing for me is the feedback.

As for this thread.....
Jumbo you have three options.
1) Change ow you release these movies. film a second version that would be sold on C4S and have more fetish elements, release the fan film on youtube with the fetish removed so it doesn't jive with the TOS and link to the C4S store for purchase of the full movie. that should help in funding the next movie

2) stop asking for crowdfunding and just fund them and release them for people to enjoy

3) quit.

In regards to Blue and the massive amounts of money he's getting.... well look at the project he's releasing.
In all honesty the films you release for free and the films I produce aren't on the same level as his.
The quality, production and FX in his films are far out of our range.

And while Im spending $900- $2800 on costumes I'm still making that back in sales so its not an issue for us.

You are making these for fun.
and thats honorable.
but you also have to realize that the stories are very similar in formula and that gets old....even for a free project

but chin up man.....
you're doing better than me as i have been banging my head against the wall asking for input from people and my threads go all but ignored.
My movies are selling, and in some cases selling very well, but Im not getting any input as to how to improve.
At least your thread is getting traction and you should be incredibly happy about that because you seem to be getting the one thing Im dying for..... interaction
I do appreciate your feedback and opinion, K.O.G. I do agree...Blue's films are totally not on the same level as ours. As for the same formula I use...It's an underwater peril fan film series and that's what the focus is on..but the plan is to add more non water peril elements in this series...Supergirl 6 is a perfect example...that installment had more non-water peril elements than underwater peril elements. The key is to balance both elements and many folks have suggested I add more non water peril element in the films and I must say..I was inclined to do it..but as someone pointed out..it was time to evolve and add new things, elements and improve the series.

As for another way for releasing these movies, two different versions and the crowdfunding...here's the thing..it would cost more money to film two different versions of the film installment. Now, I'm not a business person..i know nothing when it comes to business..But i do know that when it comes to selling a product that combines Superheroines peril with fetish...its a tricky situation...for a money standpoint in my view. The key is to keep the cost down as much as possible. As for selling the videos on C4S...that has never been in the cards and if it was..the film would most likely be uploaded to MMP Studios video sites via c4s. But here's the reason why it wouldn't be a good idea..you say that selling the videos on C4S I could turn a profit and it would help fund the film..but there is a huge problem with that. Sadly, the illegal freesharing is becoming a HUGE issue and many producers are losing a ton of money and are on the verge of folding because of it.

For example MMP Studios...my partners in this fan film franchise are one of the many victims when it comes to this crisis...they have lost thousand and thousands of dollars and have not been able to cover the cost of a majority of the videos because of the illegal freesharing. The end results..the production fees went up. Which is the main reason why Supergirl 7's budget is at $2,220.

So i think going via the c4s is currently not the way to go...especially now with the illegal free-sharing numbers spiking upwards.

As for the crowdfunding, Lord know if I had the money to fund I would fund the projects myself and hopefully that will become reality soon once I get a steady job and etc. But not only that..but in my experience, crowdfunding is the way to go especially in this genre/fetish community as well. If the angle didn't work...I don't think we would be even on our 9th video "Supergirl 7" at the moment.

As for quitting/retiring, I will admit..that sometime that crosses my mind occasionally..but then I realize...I enjoy doing these installments, I like using my imagination on things that are outside that box. Someone, pointed it out that I have accomplished a lot over the last couple of years...which is something I didn't realize. But again, why stop now espacilly when more ideas are floating around trying to improve the series? But again, feedback and support have always been the key in this series...the numbers on YouTube show it, the thumbs up show and the subscribers to the series facebook page show it too and I have to admit..nobody is more surprised than I am.

Anyway, I do appreciate you input and your advice, K.O.G. You are right about one thing..the key is to get feedback and input/
:supes: Watch all of W.O.N/MMP's Superheroine World Underwater Peril Fan Film Series, only on W.O.N Cinema YouTube Channel: www.youtube.com/woncinema
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wondergirlsupragirl wrote:Hang in there Jimbobklyn5, your fan films are awesome! I really enjoyed Twilight Zone: The deadly Admirer Of Supergirl and Supergirl IV; The Submerged Tangled Web.You are a legend of "The Ultimate Superheroine Forum!
wow...that's very kind of you to say. thank you very much, wondergirlsupragirl. I really do appreciate it. God willing, I certainly hope to bring you and other more installments in the future. Thanks again for the support :)
:supes: Watch all of W.O.N/MMP's Superheroine World Underwater Peril Fan Film Series, only on W.O.N Cinema YouTube Channel: www.youtube.com/woncinema
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there's a lot to take from everyone that's commented thus far, and some very good points have been made. I know I've been vocal about your work in the past, and it's no secret I'm not a big fan of SG and your various fan films, but having said that, I have admired your dedication and passion towards these projects. There's no doubt you put your heart and soul into these movies and you obviously enjoy doing them, BUT, they seem to have become stale and stagnant and repetitive. I've always wondered why you kept having to buy new costumes and new props with each movie (lightbulbs!? necklaces? rubber crowbars? plastic handcuffs?) don't you keep those extra things around to use again? and how many costumes did Kacey Ann need?! if they weren't destroyed why couldn't they be washed and used again? Those were the type of things that I often wondered. And let's be honest--the numerous 'promo posters' were kind of annoying after awhile. It was hard for me to actually watch your films and enjoy them because they just seemed so rushed and or disorganized, and the attention to detail was obviously not a priority (dressing Kacy in a men's button down shirt, the guy reading his lines direct from the script which was visible on the airplane wing, to name a few) were things that people picked up on and picked apart. There just didn't seem to be any quality control, and when it was pointed out, you got defensive and made all sorts of excuses like 'I have no control over that' or 'I wasn't there to fix it' etc. and that's EXACTLY my point: you were the front man for these projects yet you had little or no creative control or quality control to ensure you were releasing a polished product, and that makes YOU look bad. I didn't come in here to pile on and beat you up some more, but like I mentioned in my PM to you---maybe you need to take some time and step away from these projects for awhile and recharge and refresh your thinking, OR, you just need to throw in the towel and quit altogether and be proud of the body of work you did leave behind. The superheroine genre is a very crowded marketplace it seems, and when you're making low budget, repetitive, uninspiring 'fan films' for free (which really aren't free) that aren't on the same level of quality as most others, it's no wonder fans are being hesitant when it comes to contributing to your fundraisers. I know we've had our disagreements here in the forum and I was a dick to you in the past, but I've also donated to you behind the scenes because I really saw you had the drive and passion and dedication to do these things, even though they weren't exactly my cup of tea. Like one of the posters mentioned above--maybe find a well established producer that could 'mentor' you for awhile so you can learn and see what works and what doesn't, OR you can continue with the same formula and same business model and get the same results and same frustrations. At the end of the day it's your name that's plastered all over the logos and promo posters and forum comments so really the only person who's to blame for subsequent failure of the projects is YOU, not the people filming these movies in FL. The fans aren't going to invest in something that doesn't give them a decent return so you really can't blame them for not getting excited and parting with their money. You clearly identified that you're in a creative funk, and your fellow forum members have chimed in and offered some good advice and feedback, but it's up to you how you get out of it and go forward.
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jimbobklyn5 wrote:

As for another way for releasing these movies, two different versions and the crowdfunding...here's the thing..it would cost more money to film two different versions of the film installment.
This is where I failed. I meant that you could have the original film have extra features that would cater to fetish. you're not filming two versions, your filming added scenes that can be easily taken out for the youtube version to stay within their TOS
its just a matter of clipping those fetish scenes away from the film. If filmed well the removal will not leave a hole in story.
For example I film a separate ending for some films its a death version, the film is made with the death version and then just clipped out for the non-death. its radically simple and takes roughly 15 minutes per film.



jimbobklyn5 wrote: you say that selling the videos on C4S I could turn a profit and it would help fund the film..but there is a huge problem with that. Sadly, the illegal freesharing is becoming a HUGE issue and many producers are losing a ton of money and are on the verge of folding because of it.
I can only say whats going on with us.
We paid $1200 to make the most recent Batgirl costume (extra if you consider the boots and cowl)

We made 3 films with that costume and those three films paid for the entire costume.

We roughly make $400 profits from each weekly release, that may not seem like a lot to some of the larger producers who are pouring $5K into one film but one film costs us $150 to produce.
Batgirl's Universe cost us $390 to produce and has so far sold 128 units and made $3200 since November 2013
Our movies are on pirate sites, tube sites, and torrent sites...... but we are still making a profit
if those films weren't on pirate sharing we would maybe make an extra $100

things are different when you are talking about Christina carter and Diana Knight, and Kendra James, and Bluestone.
they are paying literally thousands of dollars on one film and therefore require far more than 128 units to make a profit

I say all of this to show that its possible and even with tube sites profit is possible and not difficult to make



jimbobklyn5 wrote: As for the crowdfunding, Lord know if I had the money to fund I would fund the projects myself and hopefully that will become reality soon once I get a steady job and etc. But not only that..but in my experience, crowdfunding is the way to go especially in this genre/fetish community as well. If the angle didn't work...I don't think we would be even on our 9th video "Supergirl 7" at the moment.
I swear to God I wish I could afford to do this out of pocket.
the profits are great but being able to just make them to because i want to make them would be good....i would so need to win the lottery first

Let me tell you that there would be a few people sad to see you go. I know its hard and I know its an uphill battle that leaves you mentally and physically and financially drained but as long as you find some fun in making them I would suggest that you continue forward.

Dont quit.
I know that whats going on here is a mixture of frustration and exhaustion and maybe a break is needed but not gone forever.

I know you're speaking from a darker place of frustration.

Its not fair to compare you quitting to Blue threatening to leave if he doesn't get his $5K

You're doing this for absolutely no financial gain.
its coming from a place of love and excitement about creating.
you're not coming from a profit based frustration. I don't think its fair to lump you in with Logan and blue.

you're not looking to make a buck off foo the project, you just want to create something and there is something rarely noble in that.
Take that to heart when things get tough.
Your struggling with this mountain to give something for free.
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jimbobklyn5
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avenger wrote:there's a lot to take from everyone that's commented thus far, and some very good points have been made. I know I've been vocal about your work in the past, and it's no secret I'm not a big fan of SG and your various fan films, but having said that, I have admired your dedication and passion towards these projects. There's no doubt you put your heart and soul into these movies and you obviously enjoy doing them, BUT, they seem to have become stale and stagnant and repetitive. I've always wondered why you kept having to buy new costumes and new props with each movie (lightbulbs!? necklaces? rubber crowbars? plastic handcuffs?) don't you keep those extra things around to use again? and how many costumes did Kacey Ann need?! if they weren't destroyed why couldn't they be washed and used again? Those were the type of things that I often wondered. And let's be honest--the numerous 'promo posters' were kind of annoying after awhile. It was hard for me to actually watch your films and enjoy them because they just seemed so rushed and or disorganized, and the attention to detail was obviously not a priority (dressing Kacy in a men's button down shirt, the guy reading his lines direct from the script which was visible on the airplane wing, to name a few) were things that people picked up on and picked apart. There just didn't seem to be any quality control, and when it was pointed out, you got defensive and made all sorts of excuses like 'I have no control over that' or 'I wasn't there to fix it' etc. and that's EXACTLY my point: you were the front man for these projects yet you had little or no creative control or quality control to ensure you were releasing a polished product, and that makes YOU look bad. I didn't come in here to pile on and beat you up some more, but like I mentioned in my PM to you---maybe you need to take some time and step away from these projects for awhile and recharge and refresh your thinking, OR, you just need to throw in the towel and quit altogether and be proud of the body of work you did leave behind. The superheroine genre is a very crowded marketplace it seems, and when you're making low budget, repetitive, uninspiring 'fan films' for free (which really aren't free) that aren't on the same level of quality as most others, it's no wonder fans are being hesitant when it comes to contributing to your fundraisers. I know we've had our disagreements here in the forum and I was a dick to you in the past, but I've also donated to you behind the scenes because I really saw you had the drive and passion and dedication to do these things, even though they weren't exactly my cup of tea. Like one of the posters mentioned above--maybe find a well established producer that could 'mentor' you for awhile so you can learn and see what works and what doesn't, OR you can continue with the same formula and same business model and get the same results and same frustrations. At the end of the day it's your name that's plastered all over the logos and promo posters and forum comments so really the only person who's to blame for subsequent failure of the projects is YOU, not the people filming these movies in FL. The fans aren't going to invest in something that doesn't give them a decent return so you really can't blame them for not getting excited and parting with their money. You clearly identified that you're in a creative funk, and your fellow forum members have chimed in and offered some good advice and feedback, but it's up to you how you get out of it and go forward.
hey, Avenger. let me explain a couple of things. First, I disagree with you when you say that the series has become stale, stagnant and repetitive. That's technically not true...in the Kaycee Anne era of the series..the films have become much improved..mainly because the actress will willing to do challenging things whether its non-peril or underwater and two when it comes improvement of the film..even though the films are extremely low budget..the special effects element have improved in a dramatic way unlike the ones for "The Watery Trap to Supergirl 5". As for control of the film, when it comes to getting the shots or scene done correctly, I always give directions on how I want things done...and 90% of the time...those things are done the right way.

As for why I keep getting costumes, Like i said..the costume sometimes do get destroyed..other times MMP puts them in storage for record keeping purposes as well as the props. Also, as for the promo posters...I am sorry for feeling that way about them..but ever since someone people on this forum (who aren't part of it anyone) said that i didn't promote my film that much..that when I decided to get the word out more times than not...Also, it was also a good opportunity to use my editing skills when it comes to creating these promo posters...that are popular on the series facebook page and popular at Deviant-Art.

As for the production situation..before I got my new video editing program..these films took about 1 to 2 weeks to editing and put together..and i always put these movies together carefully and they weren't rushed. Now with the new video editing tool I have these films take exactly a month to put together because of the special effect elements.

As for the crowdfunding situation...again, it a tricky topic to discuss because its a person's choice to fund a project. but here is the most disturbing part about all of this. The series has a ton of fans--mostly on facebook and YouTube..but the biggest issues is that their are only 20% to 40% of those fans who exactly donate and help fund the films...where the remaining 60% of the fans? Also, almost 20% have messaged asking when is the films coming out know that situation in hand that the films doesn't get done until it gets fully funded. That the big head scratcher...because i believe that the series has done a good job trying to give folks what they want to see and it has been accomplished a lot. But i think the issue in hand is the fact that I feel a lot of fan aren't going to be satisfied because they want to see a certain peril element, a certain way and sometime that take the fun out of it because then it becomes to technical. I have learned that sometime..you can't satisfy a lot of people when it comes to certain things..but i also realize that its ok..because with everything..there will be always bumps and bruise comimg along the way and i have accepted that.

As for the incident that occurred last year with the Kaycee man shirt and Supergirl V situation and etc...I really don't want to go back to that time..because I was not in the right state of mind at that time I was very irritated with the mean spirited comments i was going through over at the facebook page and was also frustrated with the fact that folks weren't embracing the actress change..also dealing with my dad's death didn't help either and sadly i carried all of that over to this forum which obviously hurt me when it came to my reputation and I've said it time and time again...I do apologize for it. So I think it would be better to not bring up that subject. but i will say that Supergirl V is most people's favorite Kaycee Anne installment...it took a long while for folks to get use to her..but a lot of fans like her and want to see more of her. So that's a big plus.

But anyway, i do appreciate your feedback and again, I do understand your not a supergirl fan..but your input is very understanding even though I do disagree with some things you have said, avenger.
:supes: Watch all of W.O.N/MMP's Superheroine World Underwater Peril Fan Film Series, only on W.O.N Cinema YouTube Channel: www.youtube.com/woncinema
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jimbobklyn5
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KnightsofGotham.com wrote:
jimbobklyn5 wrote:

As for another way for releasing these movies, two different versions and the crowdfunding...here's the thing..it would cost more money to film two different versions of the film installment.
This is where I failed. I meant that you could have the original film have extra features that would cater to fetish. you're not filming two versions, your filming added scenes that can be easily taken out for the youtube version to stay within their TOS
its just a matter of clipping those fetish scenes away from the film. If filmed well the removal will not leave a hole in story.
For example I film a separate ending for some films its a death version, the film is made with the death version and then just clipped out for the non-death. its radically simple and takes roughly 15 minutes per film.



jimbobklyn5 wrote: you say that selling the videos on C4S I could turn a profit and it would help fund the film..but there is a huge problem with that. Sadly, the illegal freesharing is becoming a HUGE issue and many producers are losing a ton of money and are on the verge of folding because of it.
I can only say whats going on with us.
We paid $1200 to make the most recent Batgirl costume (extra if you consider the boots and cowl)

We made 3 films with that costume and those three films paid for the entire costume.

We roughly make $400 profits from each weekly release, that may not seem like a lot to some of the larger producers who are pouring $5K into one film but one film costs us $150 to produce.
Batgirl's Universe cost us $390 to produce and has so far sold 128 units and made $3200 since November 2013
Our movies are on pirate sites, tube sites, and torrent sites...... but we are still making a profit
if those films weren't on pirate sharing we would maybe make an extra $100

things are different when you are talking about Christina carter and Diana Knight, and Kendra James, and Bluestone.
they are paying literally thousands of dollars on one film and therefore require far more than 128 units to make a profit

I say all of this to show that its possible and even with tube sites profit is possible and not difficult to make



jimbobklyn5 wrote: As for the crowdfunding, Lord know if I had the money to fund I would fund the projects myself and hopefully that will become reality soon once I get a steady job and etc. But not only that..but in my experience, crowdfunding is the way to go especially in this genre/fetish community as well. If the angle didn't work...I don't think we would be even on our 9th video "Supergirl 7" at the moment.
I swear to God I wish I could afford to do this out of pocket.
the profits are great but being able to just make them to because i want to make them would be good....i would so need to win the lottery first

Let me tell you that there would be a few people sad to see you go. I know its hard and I know its an uphill battle that leaves you mentally and physically and financially drained but as long as you find some fun in making them I would suggest that you continue forward.

Dont quit.
I know that whats going on here is a mixture of frustration and exhaustion and maybe a break is needed but not gone forever.

I know you're speaking from a darker place of frustration.

Its not fair to compare you quitting to Blue threatening to leave if he doesn't get his $5K

You're doing this for absolutely no financial gain.
its coming from a place of love and excitement about creating.
you're not coming from a profit based frustration. I don't think its fair to lump you in with Logan and blue.

you're not looking to make a buck off foo the project, you just want to create something and there is something rarely noble in that.
Take that to heart when things get tough.
Your struggling with this mountain to give something for free.
Now when it comes to the film..I have always made sure that the films follows the YouTube terms of services which is the reason why i elect not to do two version of the film with each one having a different ending, although I will admit it is a good strategy..but its just not for this series (at least not now)...the key to my series is ending each installment with cliffhangers which is something that I began to do staring with Supergirl & the Bloody Traces Of Stargirl and I will continue to do. I think the only installment that strategy would work would be with the very last installment of the series because it could end wither way..either she dies while defeating the villain or dies do to being killed by the villains or She kills the villain and live and etc. I can go on and on with so many scenarios ,but I think that strategy would work for the very last installment of the series and at the moment..i'm not up to that part as of yet.

As for selling these videos and the result on your end..you make some very interesting points and a lot of things and I will definitely keep that in mind for the future...but at the moment, the series belongs on YouTube.


I want to say thank you for your advice, suggestions and words of encouragement, K.O.G. I really do appreciate it..it is the very first time I have gone through this situation of frustration and etc..its not a good feeling at all. But the hope is that things will change in the coming weeks. I will probably be taking a break from this forum for a while to refuel and etc. Anyway, i do appreciate your input and feedback...I really do.
:supes: Watch all of W.O.N/MMP's Superheroine World Underwater Peril Fan Film Series, only on W.O.N Cinema YouTube Channel: www.youtube.com/woncinema
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KnightsofGotham.com
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Im afraid you're either not listening to what I'm saying or choosing not to listen.
Im not saying you have to have alternate endings....just scenes that are easily removed.
the alternate ending was an example of my movies not a direction for you.

It would be really easy to film several fetishes alongside the regular theme and just clip them out. I could easily give you at least three dozens examples but something tells me you just don't want to take this route at all.
Ultimately its your choice and your road to walk and no-one can tell you what you have to do.

Either way i wish you luck.
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jimbobklyn5
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KnightsofGotham.com wrote:Im afraid you're either not listening to what I'm saying or choosing not to listen.
Im not saying you have to have alternate endings....just scenes that are easily removed.
the alternate ending was an example of my movies not a direction for you.

It would be really easy to film several fetishes alongside the regular theme and just clip them out. I could easily give you at least three dozens examples but something tells me you just don't want to take this route at all.
Ultimately its your choice and your road to walk and no-one can tell you what you have to do.

Either way i wish you luck.
i get it now..took time to register..I miss understood..sorry about that...
:supes: Watch all of W.O.N/MMP's Superheroine World Underwater Peril Fan Film Series, only on W.O.N Cinema YouTube Channel: www.youtube.com/woncinema
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dajinx1
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I enjoy your stuff! You might have to adapt or modify the way you fund your projects but don't give up! Have you considered shooting your own videos cause it seems to have your stories filmed by that production company is really expensive.
Judah
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I gotta be honest I haven't really purchased much of your stuff cause it just doesn't interest me. Just being honest. You gotta realize a lot of fans have that one particular fetish and wont even consider a purchase unless it features that element.

Yeah your right a lot of the forum this year and last year was focused on that crook Logan. It was great of you as producer yourself to step up and say something about him. A lot of the fans see through his BS.

I notice your in NYC, MAN you are in the city of the world. NYC is "THE" city of the world. The city is literally filled with talent, fetish and non-fetish. I'm not sure why you would have a problem filming anything. There are a ton of locations you could use and a variety of talent.

Have you thought about blogs?

I understand your frustrations from this forum and I hope you decide to continue.
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tallyho
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Judah, Jim puts it up for free on his Youtube channel, you don't have to buy anything.
How strange are the ways of the gods ...........and how cruel.

I am here to help one and all enjoy this site, so if you have any questions or feel you are being trolled please contact me (Hit the 'CONTACT' little speech bubble below my Avatar).
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KnightsofGotham.com
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Judah wrote:I gotta be honest I haven't really purchased much of your stuff cause it just doesn't interest me. Just being honest. You gotta realize a lot of fans have that one particular fetish and wont even consider a purchase unless it features that element.
Yeah.... He doesn't sell his movies. he gives them away for free. he doesn't make a penny and to be honest he pours more into the projects when they don't meet the donations and then after doing so still gives it away for free


Judah wrote:

I notice your in NYC, MAN you are in the city of the world. NYC is "THE" city of the world. The city is literally filled with talent, fetish and non-fetish. I'm not sure why you would have a problem filming anything. There are a ton of locations you could use and a variety of talent.
Living in NYC is actually harder than you may know.
In this city the cost of a studio is in the hundreds of thousands if not millions to buy, and can rent for as much as $5K a month and thats for a small space.

Also filming here in NYC requires you to have permits. if caught by the police you will be asked for a permit.
if you don't have it you can have your memory card taken or (as it happened to me the whole camera taken) and then given a card with the directions to one police plaza where i could pick up the camera after its been looked through to make sure no vulnerable locations were recorded. this happened after 9-11 and I don't know when it will go back to normal.

There are not as many locations that are easily available. I'm speaking from experience.

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