Superheroine Story Action Preferences

[DrDominator9]

In my recent story Supergirl and the Military Exercise, a few readers have expressed preferences for more fighting and less sex. I've decided to create a poll here to gauge how people at this site feel in general about such things.

Please feel free to add comments as well as voting. Thanks! -- Dr. D.

[Void]

Really interesting question. I'm sort of curious if readers would want a lower percentage of plot to up those two as well. My own preferences here are really changeable, and depend a little bit on the story itself and the way it is being told (and the overall length of the story, I guess). For a quick and easy read I would say 10% fight to 30% sex, or just go all mortal kombat and have 40% fighting, but for a story I was really into and giving real attention to I think I'm 20% to 20%. The fighting gives the sex scenes to come more impact IMO. Like the sex is very much the star attraction and big payoff that I'm reading for, but I'm not looking for loads of it so much as great quality when it arrives - and the action up to that point is almost foreplay building up to it. I probably could have worded that less perversely...

Anyways, you're so, so, so good at weaving a story and writing a really compelling sex/peril scene that you could pick any ratio and I'd still love it. The ratio you had in your BG story or the SG Defilers' club story was pretty perfect for me, but then Wonder Woman and the Superherone Serial Killer must have been 30% or 35% sex, depending on how we define 'fighting', and that's my favourite story in the forum. I guess so long as the story establishes the heroine as credible I'm happy with whatever.

Very curious what others think.

[Abductorenmadrid]

I think the instigating comment for the thread was this one.

First of all... hi. I have never posted here, but I have read things for a while now. I just wanted to say something this time. A lot of you will disagree with me, but that is fine. I am a Role Player, and I love to write erotic stories with Kara in them (either Kara).

I like your work, but I have to say that I want the bad guys to die a horrible death... like badly. That said, I always wonder why people always reduce Supergirl to normal girl standards? I mean, it takes away the power of the story and makes it just about rape. The whole Mob Story could have had so many other things happen, but it was chapter after chapter of no powered heroine being raped and drugged. If only she had powers, then the fights would have been more epic, I think.

But I guess that is what some people want. For me, I prefer a good fight, that is not hampered by the most known weakness known, and less sex. But you are a good writer, and your original Doctor Destroyer stories, I loved.

My point of view - all the writers have their own style in doing things. It's not a case of being right or wrong when deciding the "perils" that appear in a story, it's a matter of the reader's tastes being compatible with what they read.

DrD is probably at the pinnacle of sex scene writers in this genre. He has been a good friend to me as a writer, a great supporter too. BUT he knows that in my capacity as a reader - he broke my will to go on reading "The Mob" with the relentlessness of SGs mistreatment. The other side of this is that "The Mob" is among the most viewed stories here. So... was his story bad, or was I just the wrong reader for it? The latter, no doubt.

If we were all to write to the same magic formula determined by this poll all our stories might end up the same. It's our writing diversity that ensures that every reader has a story or a writer for them. I think the poll results will be interesting to see, but, I don't think it would change how I would write. That being said, Powergirl's comment at least makes me hopeful that what I write has a place here at the forum albeit in a minority niche.

[Void]

Interesting. Reading between the lines, I would wager that comment is less about ratio of fighting to sex and more about how much they are comfortable with the knife being twisted before the story becomes traumatic. But either way, I'm not a SG fan but I thought the appeal for a lot of people was precisely seeing SG having the scales of power inverted on her by criminals that are usually miles beneath her. I guess you can't be all things to all people - especially in what is a fairly fetish-based genre.

A part of the problem is the character herself. It's really hard to have a middle ground of any kind with a character as OP as SG unless the villain is an equal of some kind. The plot device to depower her is basically essential if any kind of peril story is going to be told (unless the villain is straight up godlike themselves).

[tallyho]

The plot device to depower her is basically essential if any kind of peril story is going to be told (unless the villain is straight up godlike themselves).

There are alternatives to de-powerment - namely OVER powering her where she is faced by forces she cannot match. This is going to sound like a plug but I cant help that, but I have tried to have her face overpowering odds in some of my stories - yes in some of mine she faces supervillains and Kryptonite but in others she has faced being crushed by an enormous asteroid and in a separate story by a huge supertanker - with half a million tonnes grinding down on her I reasoned even she wouldn't be able to survive. So there are both natural and man made alternatives to kryptonite that can put the heroine in peril is my point.

I know other writers have just had her meet a bigger and better opponent - and I will get around to that too at some point no doubt. So you can have her depowered yes, but overpowering her I think is more interesting as she is still fully capable and trying her utmost but failing against a bigger and better foe.

[LovetheFallenAngels]

This is an interesting question! I personally prefer more focus on sex than fighting because that’s why I’m writing or reading a superheroine sex story. If I wanted lots of harrowing action I would read a regular superheroine story.
Regarding depowering SG to a regular girl, and that basically becoming rape, I want to explain my understanding of rape fantasy. It’s one of my sexual fantasies and it’s all about power and control. It makes sense then, that depowering and sexually dominating an extremely powerful woman would fit nicely into that fetish. It’s the ultimate form of power porn. Because even though the superheroine has been reduced to powerless, we still know that she’s very powerful. I agree there are other methods, such as introducing an objectively stronger foe, and I think beyond physical strength, the foe that defeats her could be more intelligent, more rich, more resourceful, there’s a number of ways to achieve that power balance without sapping all her power.

I think a lot of the desire for more fighting in these stories come from the origins of this fetish. Most people who are into this stuff probably got their first thrills from watching superheroine TV shows, reading comics, or watching movies, and got excited when the hero was in trouble. I can entirely understand why some people would desire a more closely replicated ‘fight-heavy’ formula with less or equal amounts of sex. Personally, that’s not what I’m interested in, but I can understand that angle. ‘Supergirl Captured by the Mob’ is my favorite story in both the superheroine and rape fantasy genres. There’s not much fighting in it, but like I said, the elements of power and control are still prevalent, and I understand enough about my own fantasies to know that’s what I enjoy.

This was a great post to read as I’m working on a much longer Kara Danvers/Supergirl story with more focus on character. I also added a lot more struggle and fighting. As much as I’m satisfied by less fighting and more sex, I’m not writing this entirely for myself. I want other people to enjoy it. That was the biggest feedback I received on my first story; not enough conflict, not enough fighting, not enough struggle. This was a good post to read today as I’m considering where to take the narrative.

[Abductorenmadrid]

Really when you think about it, it is all relative, the strengths of one character versus another. It's just the positioning of those relative strengths should impact on the nature of the fight. If you have a full on Supergirl fighting an equal, then you want buildings coming down, explosions, and just general mayhem. If SG has been depowered and is fighting a regular human then you want punches, a bit of blood maybe, smashed furniture and broken glass. Generally SG's character from a powers point of view is often an all or nothing affair.

[Powergirl]

Hi guys/gals,

First of all, I am sorry if I offended anyone. I was only trying to state my opinion on the way some writers do stories. I understand that everyone has their own preference and in truth, sex is fine, if the plot works with it. What I hate is a story that goes right to the rape scene, and does not really show how it happens. Thankfully, most writers here do not have that problem. The ratio thing is a strange beast, really. I like to say I want more fight than sex, but like someone said "define sex." If it is a rape scene, that can be a "fight" at the same time. if it is making love, than that involves chemistry, and I would hope the writer sets that up with a back story, or a few chapters at least.

I love to read and write about Power Girl or Supergirl, and putting them in dangerous positions. I usually write with a partner, lately as in Role Play, but I do still write stories. I always giggle, when I see someone thinks that Supergirl is unbeatable without kryptonite, though. There are so many other ways to beat her, and most are accessible to anyone. Sonics, electricity, to name two. Magic would be an odd one, but still could be fun. Red solar energy would take some work, but can add a lot of elements to the story. Mental powers would be a great way to beat her, without ever having to hit her. Anyways, kryptonite is not the only way to win. She is not as OP as people think, when you really think about it.

If you read her comics, you can see how she is knocked around by lots of people, and they almost never have kryptonite. But like I said, that is all a choice, and I understand people's feelings. But since this is not just about Kryptonians, my stance is still there should be more fight and less sex, to make a story enjoyable. But that is my opinion, and no one else needs to cater to it.

Thank you for reading this.

- Kara

[Void]

You should never be sorry for honest feedback. Even if you had launched a vicious attack on the story and Dr D personally it would still be a response to the story and more valuable than apathetic silence.

Definitely agree that 'fighting' and 'sex' can mean different things and even overlap. Even a scene with a heroine being seduced, and there is no violence at all, can still be seen to be a fight as she tries to resist being enthralled.

While I don't think kryptonite is necessary in a peril story with SG, I do think some plot mechanism needs to be used that drasticly reduces or subverts her power. Kryptonite is attractive because it has the most pronounced effect, moving SG from godlike to helpless in just a few moments, but indeed mind attacks, magic, sensory overload, different kinds of solar energy, and to a lesser degree hostages, all do a similar thing. In terms of a real fight that doesn't take away her advantages, it would pretty much need to be a godlike villain having an epic confrontation with her. Otherwise, if you give her a fair fight she'll mop the floor with almost everyone.

I definitely do think she's OP - but not in a bad way. Like Superman, her shtick is kind of that she is the antithesis of powerless. They were written to be OP. DC set so many precedents with their kryptonians that honestly I think they have to turn a blind eye to just how capable those characters are when they need villains to stand a whiff of a chance, which forces inconsistency into the story. Like, she perceives and can parse through such an enormous volume of information, at such mind-boggling speed, and is able to physically act on it faster than the speed of human thought. She can propel herself anywhere, shoot lasers from her eyes that can carve through mountains, blow icy hurricanes, withstand the vacuum of space, hold her breath seemingly indefinitely, and is invulnerable to anything short of H-bomb levels of destruction (even then, I think she can survive within a star). For her a single second is a long and tedious event, ponderously dragging by, and wholly impractical as a way to measure her experience of time. On top of all this she has the immense self-control necessary to moderate her powers enough to mimic a human life - and not demolish city blocks every time she sneezes, or accidently cut someone in half when she looks at them angrily.

If anything, I would say she is more OP than people think.

It all makes her a fascinating character, for sure, and she's even more interesting than superman because she hasn't always lived as a god like he has. But my goodness, I feel sorry for her villains!

Just out of curiosity - would you actively prefer no sexual peril in a story?

[DrDominator9]

You should never be sorry for honest feedback. Even if you had launched a vicious attack on the story and Dr D personally it would still be a response to the story and more valuable than apathetic silence.

Uuhhhmmm, probably could do without the vicious personal attack. Sincere nasty hyperbole is about as far as I generally like things to go. Or dripping sarcasm perhaps. Just saying.

[Void]

Uuhhhmmm, probably could do without the vicious personal attack. Sincere nasty hyperbole is about as far as I generally like things to go. Or dripping sarcasm perhaps. Just saying.

Haha - perhaps I made that point too strongly. Though in my own case I mean it - short of actual threats of violence I'll take anything over silence. But yes, genuine personal attacks would indeed merit an apology!

Either way, certainly there's no harm in polite, articulate, and even flattering criticism like Powergirl's. I'd hate to discourage that sort of input.

[DrDominator9]

Either way, certainly there's no harm in polite, articulate, and even flattering criticism like Powergirl's. I'd hate to discourage that sort of input.

I couldn't agree more. Within the story thread, I offered an extensive reply (which then engendered this thread) and thanked powergirl sincerely for her thoughts and opinions. Certainly there was no need for her to apologize at all. I, too, always encourage comments to my work whether pro or con and dearly cherish the feedback.

[tallyho]

Either way, certainly there's no harm in polite, articulate, and even flattering criticism like Powergirl's. I'd hate to discourage that sort of input.

I, too, always encourage comments to my work whether pro or con and dearly cherish the feedback.

So if Ive understood this right, you want prostitutes and convicts to comment on your work?

[DrDominator9]

Either way, certainly there's no harm in polite, articulate, and even flattering criticism like Powergirl's. I'd hate to discourage that sort of input.

I, too, always encourage comments to my work whether pro or con and dearly cherish the feedback.

So if Ive understood this right, you want prostitutes and convicts to comment on your work?

Hey, I don't discriminate! All readers are welcome to comment. In fact, I'd be delighted to hear the input of prostitutes and convicts. Their views are no less valid than the rest of us pervs!

[Abductorenmadrid]

I'm pretty sure you've not offended anyone. What you've done is merely spawned healthy debate after expressing what it is you do or do not like. The reason you might have the impression that this has blown up n your face is.. well, writers don't always get such awesome feedback. No wonder then you've got the community talking!

With special regard to Super-types it's obvious you want more imaginitive take downs, and more than just sex as the main objective once the takedown has occurred. I for one enjoy writing a crescendo type plot where the elements fall together through the story and the trap happens near the end. Of course I don't do it every time but I am proud when I pull it off. I think DrD would agree if I said my stories are usually the inverse of his.

[Powergirl]

If anything, I would say she is more OP than people think.

It all makes her a fascinating character, for sure, and she's even more interesting than superman because she hasn't always lived as a god like he has. But my goodness, I feel sorry for her villains!

Just out of curiosity - would you actively prefer no sexual peril in a story?

I don't know if I would call her OP still. I didn't like Silver age Supergirl or even Golden age. The one I prefer was the crop top one. She is the one I grew up with. I think they call it Modern. She was never able to read instantaneous, could not move mountains, and even strained to save a jet from crashing. Even then, she needed help of Superman. But yes, some writers did change things. She seemed to be as strong as PLOT needed her to be. No more and no less. But than again, isn't that true for non powered heroes too? Look at Batman sometime, hehe, but I digress.

To the question of would I prefer peril without sex? Depends. Most of the time, I would say, YES. But there are times that sex works. Especially, if it is used to humiliate and not just be used to have the villain get off. What I mean is, if it was something like filming it for other viewers how weak she was to him, that worked. If it was just in the back of his basement, where it was his word versus hers? I would have her break his neck and then never admit it happened. But, that might make her bad? Anyways, sex works, when it works. but when it doesn't work, it is horrible. I don't like porn stories, and don't like porn either. I like peril stories that have an end goal that will lead to character development.

If she loses her powers, at least have a way for her to get them back. That one story that had gold kryptonite. OMG, I was so enraged until I saw that DD finally added that it was not permanent. I knew it wasn't permanent, but how some people said it was, drove me bonkers. That was golden age I think when that were true. Modern changed that.

Wow, I am off course again. I babble too much. Anyways, my answer is...

Sex and peril is fine with me. Just don't make it only sex, is all I ask. I prefer fights and peril, personally. Oh, and torn clothing is totally fine. Strip her partially, and that is fine too. There is a lot of humiliation in just torn clothing, without ever having sex.

[Void]

Haha, hey don't get me wrong - he might not have the incredible physical prowess but Batman has his own OP issues. Namely, I think he has the power of 'I already thought of that, and have prepared a perfect solution,' for every scenario. But again, that is kind of his shtick and it works for him. I mean, who doesn't love Batman?

Yeah I agree there are different variations on the kryptonians that fluctuate pretty wildly with what they make them capable of, and I do agree different writers will moderate up or down on that lever depending on what works for the story they'd like to tell. Though, in those cases I would word it that they *limit* her powers as much as is necessary for the plot to work. I admit I am judging her more based on the feats that superman is capable of, but even so I think she is more or less in his ballpark. I think the main thing that puts her over the edge is all the stuff that logically follows if you allow the speeds she can operate at, and then you combine that with her godlike sensory awareness - but now I'm peeling off into a rant. It's true enough there are weaker versions of her out there, and just like DC does it you could have a story which limits SG's power for the sake of the plot working without it being offensive to the viewer. I'm just a stickler for consistency and coherency in a character.

Thanks for the in-depth answer on peril. I'm kind of with you on a lot of that - certainly in that it is part of the development of the character, and the interest of the peril to begin with is on its affect on them - but I confess the powerplay of the sexual aspect specifically interests me. I think more than humiliation it is submission that draws me in, but I'm just thinking out loud (err, sort of) at this point. I appreciate the insight.

[tumkar]

A debate about the sex/fight ratio in stories is good, always interesting to get other opinions.
But, that's all it can ever be.
For every person who says reduce the sex there will be another who says increase it.
To use my own preferences, I would advocate for the same sex/fight ratio but I would like to see a reduction in the anal and an increase in the lesbian, but that's personal preference. I can skip over lines that go a little far for me and enjoy the rest.

Basically I'm happy to have the discussion here but I really don't feel comfortable with an author tailoring a story to suit me. I think that would be a slippery slope.
With that in mind, I have actually created my own paradox as I am essentially telling the author to ignore my own comment

[Abductorenmadrid]

....To use my own preferences.... increase in the lesbian, but that's personal preference.

lol, I've been writing all the F/f stuff I can manage!

[batgirl1969]

....To use my own preferences.... increase in the lesbian, but that's personal preference.

lol, I've been writing all the F/f stuff I can manage!

Especially if it is Lesbian on straight f/f.....the heroine being straight until she gets that first taste of the other side of life.

[Abductorenmadrid]

Especially if it is Lesbian on straight f/f.....the heroine being straight until she gets that first taste of the other side of life.

Yeah, I think I need to work on writing something like that ... even if it is just a sidekick who gets turned.

[batgirl1969]

Especially if it is Lesbian on straight f/f.....the heroine being straight until she gets that first taste of the other side of life.

Yeah, I think I need to work on writing something like that ... even if it is just a sidekick who gets turned.

I LIVE for lesbian conversions!!! Bwahahahaha

[Powergirl]

A debate about the sex/fight ratio in stories is good, always interesting to get other opinions.
But, that's all it can ever be.
For every person who says reduce the sex there will be another who says increase it.
To use my own preferences, I would advocate for the same sex/fight ratio but I would like to see a reduction in the anal and an increase in the lesbian, but that's personal preference. I can skip over lines that go a little far for me and enjoy the rest.

Basically I'm happy to have the discussion here but I really don't feel comfortable with an author tailoring a story to suit me. I think that would be a slippery slope.
With that in mind, I have actually created my own paradox as I am essentially telling the author to ignore my own comment

I kind of agree with you, on part of it. I would say that the author should always write what they feel comfortable writing. At the same time, it is not a bad idea to get a poll up and see what the audience wants too. Let's face it, if no one likes it, they will say nothing. If they do, they will have an opinion. That is just how art is.

No one is asking anyone to cater to one side or the other, and in fact I doubt that opinions on one way or the other will drastically change the tone of a writer.... and it shouldn't. Write the story, then read the feedback. It may be good to hear another point of view. I have taken lots of criticism in my art, and it has helped me grow. Criticism does not mean bad, it is just another opinion.

- Kara

[GOB1985]

Why choose?
I love to see the heroine struggling, thought she has the upper hand while his assailant dodges, dances around, fun to graze her. It's like a tango. She is in trouble, she does not know (or refuses to recognize ) while we follow the perverse actions of the villain. He titillated her, she gets tired.

[DrDominator9]

Well, the month is now over for this poll question and the results have been interesting. Most people preferred a nice even split between fight scenes and sex scenes. Only one person voted for no fights and all sex. (I told Tallyho he was being unreasonable but he just went away sulking) [Just kidding!]

The written commenters mostly suggested I write what I want and that most writers should write to their own muses and that's probably the best advice. In any case, it was nice to hear varying points of views on the subject. These poll threads are a good way to get a feel at least for what people like to read and I look forward to more poll questions from you guys out there.

Finally, lots of Brits on this site, so congratulations to you all since England just made it into the quarter finals for the first time since 1990.

[tallyho]

Nothing can stop them now, except ability!

[Bert]

I just discovered this thread. As a fledgling writer, I found it hugely informative. My take on the powers issue is fairly clear from my story - I used a loophole! I love the Supergirl character, but I dislike the massive power level simply because it's too unrelatable and too hard to conjure adversaries. So I invented a character that is assuming the mantle of Supergirl, but in a more real world environment where her powers are formidable, but she can still be defeated by humans under the right circumstances. It's still very early times for the series, but hopefully it works, I can figure out how to write and a few people are entertained.

The sexual stuff is going to be a bit of a struggle for me. I guess, at least by forum standards, I'm a little prudish. (Something that Dr.Dom seemed to intuit very quickly!) I am definitely attracted to the concept of a superheroine risking being assaulted as part of the job. Time will tell if I can find a balance in that area.

[Abductorenmadrid]

And welcome you are to the rogue gallery of writers Bert

I see frow what you've written you've had to think out the rules of your world and so long as they are well enough conveyed to your readers they will happily lap up what you put in front of them. And as for DrD, he is the king of sexual writing here, we are all prudes next to him LOL.