Living in the shadow of the corona virus

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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

Post by Mr. X »

Heroine Addict wrote: 4 weeks ago
Mr. X wrote: 4 weeks ago
Heroine Addict wrote: 4 weeks agoMeanwhile, more than a few anti-vax conspiracy nuts have screaming about the US government being literal demons.
Because historically government HAVE been monsters. The US just droned striked a bunch of innocent civilians in Afghanistan. Governments do horrific stuff all the time.
Not demons as a figure of speech. Many of the conspiracy nuts are obsessed with their perceived enemies being actual demons. From Hell. Who need to be executed.
Really? Gee if that is the case then that's got to be some edge case. I've never seen that except nutters talking about Satan and things are Satan's doings. Yes I would be afraid of that.
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

Post by Femina »

Mr. X wrote: 4 weeks ago
Femina wrote: 4 weeks ago Still bitching about politics I see.

"But I want the democrats to confess they are gremlins... until they do I vow to spread Covid-19 from every pore in my body so help me god!"

Well its your voter base that's losing you and the people in your super spreader events. Enjoy being idiots. I hope none of you have to come face to face with causing the death of somebody you care about through your criminal negligence. I guess as long as you remember to suckle your political parties dicks though its all good, they'll take care of you for sure THIS time.
Why do you refuse to see that people have legit concerns and have had other voices tell them to be concerned AND the so called experts have a horrible track record.
Study in virology has no horrible track record. Implementation of emergency plans notwithstanding, the settled science around what should be done in the event of a pandemic is easily discernable so long as you aren't a conspiracy nut primed to look for some nonsense reason for there to be a problem. I'm not saying you need to go out and praise the government like they've succeeded wildly, I'm saying there's been plenty of time for you to go and get a vaccine. Your concerns aren't legitimate. Your concerns are irrational. You don't legitimize irrational problem solving because it leads to irrational action, such as refusing to get a vaccine during a global pandemic. 'Other voices' quite frankly, matter less. You don't go to Steve from accounting to fix your car engine, you don't go to 'other voices' for outbreak strategies, you go to a virologist and the health organization. I'm sorry if you had a bad experience in a hospital or something, that doesn't make an irrational fear of the vaccine any more legitimate, that's just an explanation for an irrational behavior. I'd tolerate that behavior if it wasn't killing people, but you can't tolerate irrational behavior that is killing people.
You keep demonizing MILLIONS of people like they are evil for no reason.
I'm accusing millions of people of negligent manslaughter, that's definitely a reason. I don't see as I've labeled that 'evil' anywhere, but I won't pretend like I have any respect for the attitude either. It absolutely is disgust at any rate.
This, for you, is apparently some fake righteous cause you're using to demonize a bunch of people you have stereotyped so you can call them idiots and say they are murderers..... and that has NEVER worked other than to drive people away from your issue.
The alternative is to stand here while you make up nonsense about vaccines having no effect and praise yourselves for your negligence and make an excuse so that you can feel good about the risk to human lives you're taking which I just don't have any tolerance for while I have family members dying because of it. Don't want to feel like you're playing games with other people's mortality? Then don't take negligent risks with human lives. Seems pretty simple to me.
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

Post by Bert »

Here are some numbers that will add clarity to the discussion.

America has a little over 4% of the world's population.

America accounts for about 25% of current daily covid cases.

America accounts for about 25% of current daily covid deaths.

Continuing to make this a political conversation is killing Americans. Getting vaccinated and taking covid precautions saves lives. Not getting vaccinated and not taking covid precautions costs lives.
A brief synopsis of my heroine peril stories is linked below.
viewtopic.php?f=70&t=34624
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

Post by bushwackerbob »

Bert wrote: 4 weeks ago Here are some numbers that will add clarity to the discussion.

America has a little over 4% of the world's population.

America accounts for about 25% of current daily covid cases.

America accounts for about 25% of current daily covid deaths.

Continuing to make this a political conversation is killing Americans. Getting vaccinated and taking covid precautions saves lives. Not getting vaccinated and not taking covid precautions costs lives.
It is precisely because this COVID vaccine conversation started out as a hyper politicized conversation in 2020 that it is killing folks now, hard to put that genie back in the bottle. We had one brief moment in time in 2020 when we could conceivably had one united front combating COVID, with our politicians, mainstream media, social media influencers, responsible and respected individuals of all political stripes united together to provide a largely united front in combating this virus. Guess what happened? Politicians couldn't put their petty differences, selfish political motivations, and political aspirations aside for two minutes in order to provide that united front, mainstream media already infected with Trump derangement syndrome perpetuating misinformation at a furious pace could not bring themselves to align their COVID narrative with the mean tweeter in the oval office, they didn't want to be seen as aiding and abetting Trump. We had one shot not to politicize the COVID vaccine and they blew it! We can't get that moment back. To paraphrase someone else on this thread, fuck Biden, fuck VP Harris, and fuck everybody who used the COVID vaccine as a political football in 2020. They too have a hand in the needless COVID deaths that have followed. I hope everybody gets the shot.
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

Post by tmon »

BS! There is no way we actually know the numbers of Covid world wide. You actually thing Chinas reports truthfully? You actually think we are getting good numbers from Africa or South America?
Bert wrote: 4 weeks ago Here are some numbers that will add clarity to the discussion.

America has a little over 4% of the world's population.

America accounts for about 25% of current daily covid cases.

America accounts for about 25% of current daily covid deaths.

Continuing to make this a political conversation is killing Americans. Getting vaccinated and taking covid precautions saves lives. Not getting vaccinated and not taking covid precautions costs lives.
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

Post by Femina »

bushwackerbob wrote: 4 weeks ago
Bert wrote: 4 weeks ago Here are some numbers that will add clarity to the discussion.

America has a little over 4% of the world's population.

America accounts for about 25% of current daily covid cases.

America accounts for about 25% of current daily covid deaths.

Continuing to make this a political conversation is killing Americans. Getting vaccinated and taking covid precautions saves lives. Not getting vaccinated and not taking covid precautions costs lives.
It is precisely because this COVID vaccine conversation started out as a hyper politicized conversation in 2020 that it is killing folks now, hard to put that genie back in the bottle. We had one brief moment in time in 2020 when we could conceivably had one united front combating COVID, with our politicians, mainstream media, social media influencers, responsible and respected individuals of all political stripes united together to provide a largely united front in combating this virus. Guess what happened? Politicians couldn't put their petty differences, selfish political motivations, and political aspirations aside for two minutes in order to provide that united front, mainstream media already infected with Trump derangement syndrome perpetuating misinformation at a furious pace could not bring themselves to align their COVID narrative with the mean tweeter in the oval office, they didn't want to be seen as aiding and abetting Trump. We had one shot not to politicize the COVID vaccine and they blew it! We can't get that moment back. To paraphrase someone else on this thread, fuck Biden, fuck VP Harris, and fuck everybody who used the COVID vaccine as a political football in 2020. They too have a hand in the needless COVID deaths that have followed. I hope everybody gets the shot.
It doesn't matter. We all need to be vaccinated. I hope everybody gets the shot as well. I'd also appreciate it if people on this website would uphold the no politics clause but apparently that's too much to ask and we're only allowed to speak politics if its to bitch about the current administration and anything else is this mysterious 'Trump Derangement syndrome' (The silliest fucking thing I've ever read) what is that anyway? Is that the dementia that Trump was clearly suffering as he continued to piss America's credibility down the drain?
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

Post by bushwackerbob »

Femina wrote: 4 weeks ago
bushwackerbob wrote: 4 weeks ago
Bert wrote: 4 weeks ago Here are some numbers that will add clarity to the discussion.

America has a little over 4% of the world's population.

America accounts for about 25% of current daily covid cases.

America accounts for about 25% of current daily covid deaths.

Continuing to make this a political conversation is killing Americans. Getting vaccinated and taking covid precautions saves lives. Not getting vaccinated and not taking covid precautions costs lives.
It is precisely because this COVID vaccine conversation started out as a hyper politicized conversation in 2020 that it is killing folks now, hard to put that genie back in the bottle. We had one brief moment in time in 2020 when we could conceivably had one united front combating COVID, with our politicians, mainstream media, social media influencers, responsible and respected individuals of all political stripes united together to provide a largely united front in combating this virus. Guess what happened? Politicians couldn't put their petty differences, selfish political motivations, and political aspirations aside for two minutes in order to provide that united front, mainstream media already infected with Trump derangement syndrome perpetuating misinformation at a furious pace could not bring themselves to align their COVID narrative with the mean tweeter in the oval office, they didn't want to be seen as aiding and abetting Trump. We had one shot not to politicize the COVID vaccine and they blew it! We can't get that moment back. To paraphrase someone else on this thread, fuck Biden, fuck VP Harris, and fuck everybody who used the COVID vaccine as a political football in 2020. They too have a hand in the needless COVID deaths that have followed. I hope everybody gets the shot.
It doesn't matter. We all need to be vaccinated. I hope everybody gets the shot as well. I'd also appreciate it if people on this website would uphold the no politics clause but apparently that's too much to ask and we're only allowed to speak politics if its to bitch about the current administration and anything else is this mysterious 'Trump Derangement syndrome' (The silliest fucking thing I've ever read) what is that anyway? Is that the dementia that Trump was clearly suffering as he continued to piss America's credibility down the drain?
Don't worry, dementia Joe has surpassed Trump in regards to tarnishing our nation's credibility issues, but apparently you are unaware of one of the worst presidencies in our lifetime, and yes, Trump derangement syndrome played a part in terms of the damage some folks caused to the credibility of the vaccine, some folks could not put country ahead of party or ideology for the good of the American people. When a well intentioned person ignites a thread essentially saying "I apologize for being political, but", one is already leading a bunch of folks down that rabbit hole. You can't talk about COVID vaccine credibility and the potential of violating one's right not to get the vaccine without necessarily being political, it is all a part of this story even if you have a blindspot or amnesia and are unable to recall assholes denigrating the vaccine in 2020 which has informed how some folks see the vaccine in 2021.
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

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tmon wrote: 4 weeks ago BS! There is no way we actually know the numbers of Covid world wide. You actually thing Chinas reports truthfully? You actually think we are getting good numbers from Africa or South America?
Bert wrote: 4 weeks ago Here are some numbers that will add clarity to the discussion.

America has a little over 4% of the world's population.

America accounts for about 25% of current daily covid cases.

America accounts for about 25% of current daily covid deaths.

Continuing to make this a political conversation is killing Americans. Getting vaccinated and taking covid precautions saves lives. Not getting vaccinated and not taking covid precautions costs lives.
Do you believe Canada's numbers? Americans are dying at over seven times the rate Canadians are, right now.
A brief synopsis of my heroine peril stories is linked below.
viewtopic.php?f=70&t=34624
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

Post by Mr. X »

Bert wrote: 4 weeks ago
Do you believe Canada's numbers? Americans are dying at over seven times the rate Canadians are, right now.
And that could be for multiple reasons. Population density, viruses don't do well in colder climates, possible herd immunity, possibly more spread out people, social attitudes.

Canada has 40 times the gun murder rate of Japan. Does that mean something is wrong with Canada? We can find all sorts of stats that make Canada look bad compared to other countries.

Is it fair to compare a country with 40 mil people with the same land size as the US to the US that has over 370 mil people, 50% of which are packed into the 10 largest cities?
Can we compare Canada to Sweden?

If you're doing so damned well as a Canadian then WTF do you care what happens to the US. I don't get this creepy obsession by foreigners who have no stake in US affairs to constantly rip on the US. Again is this just some classist crap about making fun of rednecks cause Canada has its own fair share of "rednecks". Watch Letterkenny. You're ten-ply
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

Post by bushwackerbob »

I wish our vaccinated numbers were higher, but they are what they are. Canada and the UK are places I would really like to visit someday, they seem like really cool places. I think Mr. X hit it on the head though, culturally speaking, the U.S is quite a unique place, a quite unique animal from other countries. For one thing, we are distrustful of media sources and question what we are told by our media and government, we are very cynical and skeptical in nature, our population less conformist than other countries. As with most issues in our day, with vaccine hesitancy or obstinacy there is no easy simple answer to why, there are likely a variety of factors that lead to vaccine hesitancy, factors which have to do with this uniquely almost 250 year American experiment. In the late 60's we had the most trusted man in America, CBS newsman Walter Cronkite, at the end of one of his broadcasts, famously came out against the Vietnam War. LBJ, the president at the time later said "If I've lost Cronkite, I've lost middle America". Those legendary and trustworthy Walter Cronkites of the world no longer exist in our country.
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

Post by Damselbinder »

If I could lock this thread, I would. This is a dumpster fire. Cut it the fuck out. Stop making this forum such an unpleasant place to be.
A full list of my stories can be found here, with summaries to boot: viewtopic.php?f=70&t=32027
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

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One of the reasons I rarely interact with Mr. X is on full display here. First of all, my reply was to tmon, not you Mr. X. Now on to your dizzying list of reasons for the drastic, tragic difference in covid deaths between Canada and the U.S.

Population density. Actually, I think you will find many similarities between the two countries. Spacious, sparsely populated western states/provinces. Large, heavily populated cities. Plenty of suburban areas. Really very alike.

Cold climates? Really? We're all up here shivering in our igloos? It was 113 degrees in my town this year. In June. I'd bet we had about 40 days this summer with temps above 90 degrees. If you think Canada, at least the part of Canada where all the people live, is a cold place in the summer you clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

Herd immunity? We're getting closer - BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE GETTING VACCINATED.

Social attitudes? Now you're getting somewhere. As a nation, Canada has a much smaller percentage of people who believe their personal freedom to not wear a mask or get vaccinated counts for more than other people's freedom to not contract and possibly die from a freaking pandemic.

Canada has 40 times the gun murder rate of Japan? Tell us, Mr. X, How many of the logical fallacies you are always accusing others of does this little beauty check off? We aren't talking about guns. If we were, comparing gun deaths between Canada and the U.S. would not look good for you.

If you're doing so damned well as a Canadian then WTF do you care what happens to the US? Well Mr. X, the discussion has been about people refusing to be vaccinated. Since Canada and the U.S. have so many similarities, but Canada has much higher vaccination rates than the U.S., pointing out that America's death rate is much higher seemed noteworthy. Now if you want to apply a logical device to this comparison, I'd recommend Occam's Razor.
Last edited by Bert 3 weeks ago, edited 1 time in total.
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viewtopic.php?f=70&t=34624
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

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bushwackerbob wrote: 3 weeks ago I wish our vaccinated numbers were higher, but they are what they are. Canada and the UK are places I would really like to visit someday, they seem like really cool places. I think Mr. X hit it on the head though, culturally speaking, the U.S is quite a unique place, a quite unique animal from other countries. For one thing, we are distrustful of media sources and question what we are told by our media and government, we are very cynical and skeptical in nature, our population less conformist than other countries. As with most issues in our day, with vaccine hesitancy or obstinacy there is no easy simple answer to why, there are likely a variety of factors that lead to vaccine hesitancy, factors which have to do with this uniquely almost 250 year American experiment. In the late 60's we had the most trusted man in America, CBS newsman Walter Cronkite, at the end of one of his broadcasts, famously came out against the Vietnam War. LBJ, the president at the time later said "If I've lost Cronkite, I've lost middle America". Those legendary and trustworthy Walter Cronkites of the world no longer exist in our country.
Skepticism is good. I'm skeptical about astrology, psychic mediums, numerology and many other forms of woo-woo bullshit that are not supported by credible scientific evidence. But when people doubt the consensus of the overwhelming majority of people who actually specialize in virology, that's not skepticism. It's denial.

But then America has a real problem with people trying to replace science with superstition. Just look at the yahoos trying to get Creationism taught in science classes.
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

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Heroine Addict wrote: 3 weeks agoBut when people doubt the consensus of the overwhelming majority of people who actually specialize in virology, that's not skepticism. It's denial.
Like:
Don't wear masks.
It'll only be two weeks.
Social distancing is good enough.
Now wear masks.
Now close businesses.
Now masks and social distancing.
Now it'll be 6 months.
Now it'll be a year.
Now you need the vaccine.
Now you need two shots.
Now you need boosters.

Yeah listen to a majority of experts... who don't know WTF they are doing. YES denial and lack of faith in a bunch of Mr. Magoo clowns who don't know what to do.

And in the mean time:
Our lives destroyed.
Our jobs lost.
Our retirements drained.
Our kids not going to school.
Our supply chain broken.
Our economy in inflation with a massive multi trillion dollar hole in it.
Our businesses all out of business.
Our country in 29 trillion of debt.
Our friends and neighbors crushed by debt and committing suicide.

If how covid was handled by the "majority of experts" is any indication I don't want those experts NEAR climate change issues. We'll be digging mass graves for decades cause of those INCOMPETENT "experts".

BTW are these the same experts that tell us there a 52 genders?
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

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Bert wrote: 3 weeks ago One of the reasons I rarely interact with Mr. X is on full display here. First of all, my reply was to tmon, not you Mr. X. Now on to your dizzying list of reasons for the drastic, tragic difference in covid deaths between Canada and the U.S.
Why are you so bent on criticizing what obviously is a class of people you don't like in America but you don't criticize the Chinese and the Wuhan lab where all this started?

I have seen NO ONE who is so ready to blame US rednecks for everything on this thread EVER blame the chinese for ANY OF THIS.

We wouldn't be having a vaccine mandate debate if CHINA had not had the Wuhan incident. But you seem more bent out of shape over the people who "won't respect your authority" instead of the people WHO CAUSED THE PROBLEM and aren't spending ONE DAY IN JAIL or paying ONE DIME in damages.



Yes scientific experts are going to tell us all how to deal with a problem - that was pretty much caused by scientific experts.
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

Post by Bert »

Mr. X wrote: 3 weeks ago
Bert wrote: 3 weeks ago One of the reasons I rarely interact with Mr. X is on full display here. First of all, my reply was to tmon, not you Mr. X. Now on to your dizzying list of reasons for the drastic, tragic difference in covid deaths between Canada and the U.S.
Why are you so bent on criticizing what obviously is a class of people you don't like in America but you don't criticize the Chinese and the Wuhan lab where all this started?

I have seen NO ONE who is so ready to blame US rednecks for everything on this thread EVER blame the chinese for ANY OF THIS.

We wouldn't be having a vaccine mandate debate if CHINA had not had the Wuhan incident. But you seem more bent out of shape over the people who "won't respect your authority" instead of the people WHO CAUSED THE PROBLEM and aren't spending ONE DAY IN JAIL or paying ONE DIME in damages.
And here's another reason I rarely interact with Mr. X. I dealt with all of your spurious "reasons" for why America's covid death rate is 700% higher than neighboring Canada, so you reply by completely changing the subject, putting words in my mouth, and mic dropping with a Bill Maher video. This conversation is a joke. You're just throwing stuff at the wall hoping it might stick. When someone points out that it's all sliding off the wall, you just throw different stuff. Except this time the points that you are arguing could kill people, or those close to them, if they listen to you and believe you.
A brief synopsis of my heroine peril stories is linked below.
viewtopic.php?f=70&t=34624
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

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Bert wrote: 3 weeks ago
And here's another reason I rarely interact with Mr. X. I dealt with all of your spurious "reasons" for why America's covid death rate is 700% higher than neighboring Canada,
No you didn't. You spewed your class hatred view. "Mericans are just stupids" or some such nonsense.

Like the fact you IGNORE that 68% of Hispanics and over 50% of blacks in the US are not vaccinated and refuse the vaccine. Do you take that into account.

Your position is just snobbish, bourgeoisie class hatred, nothing more. I have at least tried to present articles and documentation and links. You present nothing but stereotypes and some BS about how your country is so much better cause of some absurd belief its magically managed better.

For example here's hte BBC data
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-51235105
So they cherry pic 5 countries to compare the US to and some have actually higher death rates.

But note the vaccinations in the same article.
Global vaccine rollout
The US is in the countries with the MOST roll out of vaccines. So why haven't the countries with LESS vaccine had MORE INCIDENCES with higher deaths? Most of Africa has no vaccines.... why aren't they a sea of death?

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavir ... de-graphs/
US is higher than 6 other cherry picked countries BUT Europe in general is doing WORSE than the US.

It could also be the US is just a bigger VICTIM of this incident that your country. How many Haitians are coming into Canada right now? Mexicans? Afghans? Some... not a lot. But instead of having sympathy you lay it all at the feet of some class you don't like.

So again, WHAT BUSINESS IS IT OF YOURS.
America does NOT effect you.
Many factors determine these outcomes.
So what a bunch of 'mericans you are so classist bigoted toward get sick.

You seem to just use this issue to grind a bunch of people into the dirt based on class.
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

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Mr. X wrote: 3 weeks ago You spewed your class hatred view. "Mericans are just stupids" or some such nonsense.


Your position is just snobbish, bourgeoisie class hatred, nothing more... You present nothing but stereotypes and some BS about how your country is so much better cause of some absurd belief its magically managed better.


You seem to just use this issue to grind a bunch of people into the dirt based on class.
Your little freak out about class warfare might have a touch more impact if I had ever said anything in this conversation that even remotely resembled what you are accusing me of. Instead, it just comes off as the ravings of of someone who is badly losing an argument and continuing to throw more stuff at the wall.

As for "...some BS about how your country is so much better cause of some absurd belief its magically managed better.", well, sometimes facts are uncomfortable. Except for the magic part, although I guess I can see how it might look that way, what with the 700% higher death rate in the U.S. right now.

Here's a radical thought - instead of raving about class warfare and magic, try to wrap your head around this: Canada has much higher vaccination rates and has less pushback on covid precautions than America. America has a 700% higher death rate from covid than Canada. Maybe, just maybe, those things are related.
A brief synopsis of my heroine peril stories is linked below.
viewtopic.php?f=70&t=34624
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

Post by Mr. X »

Bert wrote: 3 weeks ago Here's a radical thought - instead of raving about class warfare and magic, try to wrap your head around this: Canada has much higher vaccination rates and has less pushback on covid precautions than America. America has a 700% higher death rate from covid than Canada. Maybe, just maybe, those things are related.
There maybe causation there but you make that the ONLY factor. So you're arguing Canada is EXACTLY the same as the US in all conditions, diversity, layout, economy, and the ONLY difference is that Canada has a higher vaccination rate?

So no other factors that make both countries different might play a part?

I accept vaccinations are doing good but I don't accept its the be all -end all or that its some magic cure. You're not taking other factors and differences into account.

Also did you provide ANY source for your 700% death rate?
https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2020/he ... and-cases/

US is 207 per 100k. Canada is 73 per 100k as of sept 21st 2021.

207 / 73 is 2.8 times higher NOT 7 times higher. %280

If Americans are SO unvaccinated compared to Canada they should have a pretty much proportional disadvantage/outcome. But the numbers don't show a proportionally bad response. 2.8 times more than the US would mean there would only be about 2.8 times more victims.

As of sept 21st
https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2021/he ... cinations/
US has 115 doses per 100 people ( my guess is this is the two doses)
Canada has 145. That's only 26% better rate. So Canada is not seeing a %280 better dose, only 26% better.


So why does the US have a disproportionately MORE cases? 13k per 100k vs 4k per 100k? That is a 326% increase or 3 times not a 26% more situation.

Not seeing how the numbers are adding up IF your claim MORE vaccines directly effect the outcome and its the only significant factor.

So to recap.
US deaths - 207/100k Canada deaths - 73/100k which is only 2.8 times higher.
US 115 doses per 100 - Canada 145 per 100 - only 26% better.
US cases 13k per 100k - Canada cases 4k per 100k. 326% more.

So if vaccines are the solution or the main solution how does the US have %326 more infect with only 26% less vaccinated? The US should only have roughly 26% more cases.

BTW I took the effort to present numbers and not from some loon website like Breitbart. I have not seen you present any numbers. maybe I missed it but at least I'm trying to present my case with numbers. I don't see you doing that.

Maybe your argument is flawed that its ONLY the vaccine or MOSTLY the vaccine that will deal with this. And you exclude other differences. And I fully accept the US system is grossly horribly managed and that due to this we could never have national health care.
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

Post by argento »

ranking bloomberg.jpg
ranking bloomberg.jpg (141.33 KiB) Viewed 766 times
Resilience" ranking among 53 countries where to pass the COVID-19 pandemic. of June 29, 2021.
1-column: Score
2-column: Percentage of the population covered by Covid vaccines, a figure calculated based on the number of doses administered and the combination of vaccine types.
3- Column: severity of confinement. A high score indicates that social and economic activity is strictly restricted by government policy and guidance. It means that people are experiencing greater disruption of their lives.
4- Column:Percentage change in scheduled flight capacity in the last four weeks compared to the same period in 2019.
5-Column:A score derived from the number of open travel routes, both idad and vuenta, that a location has with the rest of the world for vaccinated international travelers.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... ce-ranking]
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

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Hmm so that chart show Canada lags the US on vaccines with only 46% vs 50% and people are doing worse with higher lockdown severity. For example Canada has a severity of 74 but a lower score. US has 47 and a higher score. Reading the article I gather a higher score is better.
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

Post by Bert »

On September 17th the 7 day running average of covid deaths was:

2,010 in the U.S.

29 in Canada

The U.S. has 330 million people

2,010 over 330 million is 6.1 deaths per million people per day.

Canada has 38 million people

29 over 38 million is 0.76 deaths per million people per day.

6.1 over 0.76 is 8. Canada is doing 800% better than the U.S. in current covid deaths.
A brief synopsis of my heroine peril stories is linked below.
viewtopic.php?f=70&t=34624
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

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Bert wrote: 3 weeks ago On September 17th the 7 day running average of covid deaths was:

2,010 in the U.S.

29 in Canada

The U.S. has 330 million people

2,010 over 330 million is 6.1 deaths per million people per day.

Canada has 38 million people

29 over 38 million is 0.76 deaths per million people per day.

6.1 over 0.76 is 8. Canada is doing 800% better than the U.S. in current covid deaths.

But the CNN chart doesn't show that. And you quoted no source.
CNN source as of the 21st is US is 207 per 100k. Canada is 73 per 100k as of sept 21st 2021. That's only 280%.

And how do you explain the US has such a high amount of deaths if Americans did MORE VACCINATING than before the 17th? And Canada is only 26% more vaccinated according to the CNN report so how does 26% more translate to an 8 times higher death rate?
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

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Your proportionality argument is silly. As a population approached herd immunity, the spread of the virus slows dramatically. As of a few days ago, vaccination levels were as follows:

Canada - 68.7%
U.S. -54.2%

Obviously Canada is much much closer to herd immunity, which is estimated to be somewhere between 80 and 90 percent.

Gotta run. More later.
A brief synopsis of my heroine peril stories is linked below.
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

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Bert wrote: 3 weeks ago Your proportionality argument is silly. As a population approached herd immunity, the spread of the virus slows dramatically. As of a few days ago, vaccination levels were as follows:

Canada - 68.7%
U.S. -54.2%

Obviously Canada is much much closer to herd immunity, which is estimated to be somewhere between 80 and 90 percent.

Gotta run. More later.
68.7% compared to 54.2% is only about 14% difference. That doesn't account for the massive large discrepancy. And if herd immunity is a thing then there should be less need for a vaccine. And you've supplied no evidence that 68.7% = herd immunity but 54.2% is not and that this 14 point difference makes up for the 2.8 (or as you say) 8 times more mortality rate.

https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2021/he ... cinations/
CNN confirms you %68 number for Canada and the 54% for the US. But it also shows plenty of counties with lower vaccination rates that do NOT have proportional detrimental effects. Russia is 28% but has less mortality rate and infection rates. India is at 14% but does better than the US but is more tightly concentrated. 445,385 deaths in india vs the US 678,049 deaths with a population in the 1 billion mark.

So this isn't showing consistency. At 14% India should have many times more deaths.
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

Post by bushwackerbob »

Heroine Addict wrote: 3 weeks ago
bushwackerbob wrote: 3 weeks ago I wish our vaccinated numbers were higher, but they are what they are. Canada and the UK are places I would really like to visit someday, they seem like really cool places. I think Mr. X hit it on the head though, culturally speaking, the U.S is quite a unique place, a quite unique animal from other countries. For one thing, we are distrustful of media sources and question what we are told by our media and government, we are very cynical and skeptical in nature, our population less conformist than other countries. As with most issues in our day, with vaccine hesitancy or obstinacy there is no easy simple answer to why, there are likely a variety of factors that lead to vaccine hesitancy, factors which have to do with this uniquely almost 250 year American experiment. In the late 60's we had the most trusted man in America, CBS newsman Walter Cronkite, at the end of one of his broadcasts, famously came out against the Vietnam War. LBJ, the president at the time later said "If I've lost Cronkite, I've lost middle America". Those legendary and trustworthy Walter Cronkites of the world no longer exist in our country.
Skepticism is good. I'm skeptical about astrology, psychic mediums, numerology and many other forms of woo-woo bullshit that are not supported by credible scientific evidence. But when people doubt the consensus of the overwhelming majority of people who actually specialize in virology, that's not skepticism. It's denial.

But then America has a real problem with people trying to replace science with superstition. Just look at the yahoos trying to get Creationism taught in science classes.
Sometimes consensus isn't what we think it is though. Last year we had 25 renown scientists sign a paper saying in no uncertain terms that that COVID-19 absolutely did not come from a lab. I had Femina (rightly so I thought at the time) shut me down on my contention that it came from a Chinese lab and now one year later we are seeing more mounting evidence that it indeed may have come from a Wuhan lab in China after all. If you can get 25 respected scientists to sign a friggin paper perpetuating a falsehood, or at worst jumping the gun and recklessly speculating about an issue without sufficient evidence, is it any wonder that some folks question what they are told about this vaccine? To be honest, my decision to get vaccinated was not due to listening to any particular person or news source, it was a gut instinct, a piece of mind thing, a desire to do all I can to protect myself from getting COVID. I think there are other folks whose gut tells them to do just the opposite, and I think it is hard to override that feeling in your gut, your soul and do something that runs counter to one's intuition or gut feelings. I hope everybody gets the shot.
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

Post by argento »

Bert wrote: 3 weeks ago On September 17th the 7 day running average of covid deaths was:

2,010 in the U.S.

29 in Canada

The U.S. has 330 million people

2,010 over 330 million is 6.1 deaths per million people per day.

Canada has 38 million people

29 over 38 million is 0.76 deaths per million people per day.

6.1 over 0.76 is 8. Canada is doing 800% better than the U.S. in current covid deaths.
This calculation does not help to understand what is really happening, because you only take the week of September 12-17. In the same way you say that in that week 2010 people died in the U.S. when in reality there were 1754 deaths. That is 5.34 deaths per million, which is different from 6.1.
On the other hand, since you chose that week, I can look up the week from July 26th to August 1st, where 2569 people died in the U.S.


Making 2569/(7. 328200000).1000000=1.118 deaths per million.
This represents a serious problem for the reliability of your result, where the missing data is related to the effectiveness of your forecast.
https://datosmacro.expansion.com/otros/coronavirus/usa
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

Post by Femina »

I swear, if Covid was a killer robot with an M-16 you idiots would swear it was a government plot and stand in the middle of the street pretending like bullets can't hurt you.

You're gonna pay for all this idiocy come time to vote for... pretty much anything. If politics are the only way to get you dunderheads to DO something how about not letting your voting demographic die off in droves? Is that enough to get you to wake the fuck up?
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

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Femina wrote: 3 weeks ago I swear, if Covid was a killer robot with an M-16 you idiots would swear it was a government plot and stand in the middle of the street pretending like bullets can't hurt you.
Robot with a gun. Like a GOVERNMENT military drone strike?

In fact the only entity that makes robots that kill and have guns on them are the government. Private sector makes robots to make things and service things and grow crops. So yeah I'd immediately look at the only entity that makes robots that kill.
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

Post by Bert »

argento wrote: 3 weeks ago
Bert wrote: 3 weeks ago On September 17th the 7 day running average of covid deaths was:

2,010 in the U.S.

29 in Canada

The U.S. has 330 million people

2,010 over 330 million is 6.1 deaths per million people per day.

Canada has 38 million people

29 over 38 million is 0.76 deaths per million people per day.

6.1 over 0.76 is 8. Canada is doing 800% better than the U.S. in current covid deaths.
This calculation does not help to understand what is really happening, because you only take the week of September 12-17.
It's a snapshot of what is happening right now. But it isn't a random, one off, cherry-picked example. It's the most recent data. Look at the trend. Deaths have been rising in the U.S. for weeks, slightly trailing the number of infections. America is in the midst of a tragic, preventable loss of life of historic proportions. over 2,000 Americans are dying every day from covid-19. Most of those deaths would not be happening if more people were vaccinated. It's undeniable. Unless your ridiculous politics blinds you to plain, observable reality.
A brief synopsis of my heroine peril stories is linked below.
viewtopic.php?f=70&t=34624
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

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Bert wrote: 3 weeks agoDeaths have been rising in the U.S. for weeks, slightly trailing the number of infections. America is in the midst of a tragic, preventable loss of life of historic proportions. over 2,000 Americans are dying every day from covid-19. Most of those deaths would not be happening if more people were vaccinated. It's undeniable. Unless your ridiculous politics blinds you to plain, observable reality.

Ok but that doesn't seem all that related to vaccines.
US is only vaccinated 26% less than Canada.
India only has 12% vaccination.
The US vaccinated MORE than in Jan of 2021. Vaccinations went UP not down.

So why are the number disproportionate. You don't have data to show its preventable and I think that's the core of your problem. You can't handle chaos. You think you (or planners) can control this. Maybe you can't. Again India is the land size of the US with 1 bil people and with low 12% vaccination is less deaths and cases than the US. Other countries have similar outcomes.


I just think you assumption of vaccination = solution is horrible flawed. It may help some but numbers aren't showing that.
US 26% less than Canada on vaccinations but showing many many more cases but death rates are only about 2.8 times more according to CNN.

I don't want to get into politics but this is one of the flaws of left minded people, that they can manage away chaos or even control it through human management. Its the same with poverty, social justice, inequality, climate change... the same flawed belief they can manage them away or they even have control over chaos.

Fear is the lack of control and I think some people deal with fear through over control.
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

Post by Bert »

Mr. X wrote: 3 weeks ago
Bert wrote: 3 weeks ago Your proportionality argument is silly. As a population approached herd immunity, the spread of the virus slows dramatically. As of a few days ago, vaccination levels were as follows:

Canada - 68.7%
U.S. -54.2%

Obviously Canada is much much closer to herd immunity, which is estimated to be somewhere between 80 and 90 percent.

Gotta run. More later.
68.7% compared to 54.2% is only about 14% difference. That doesn't account for the massive large discrepancy. And if herd immunity is a thing then there should be less need for a vaccine. And you've supplied no evidence that 68.7% = herd immunity but 54.2% is not and that this 14 point difference makes up for the 2.8 (or as you say) 8 times more mortality rate.

https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2021/he ... cinations/
CNN confirms you %68 number for Canada and the 54% for the US. But it also shows plenty of counties with lower vaccination rates that do NOT have proportional detrimental effects. Russia is 28% but has less mortality rate and infection rates. India is at 14% but does better than the US but is more tightly concentrated. 445,385 deaths in india vs the US 678,049 deaths with a population in the 1 billion mark.

So this isn't showing consistency. At 14% India should have many times more deaths.
Herd immunity is a result of vaccination. You are interpreting herd immunity as exclusively people who have actually been infected with the virus. That is incorrect. Herd immunity refers to the percentage of people who are no longer susceptible to the virus, or who are unlikely to spread it to others. That means vaccinated people make up the majority of the the contributors to herd immunity.

Now the percentages. If we pick 85% as a herd immunity level, Canada is 17 % away from that goal. (it's complicated, because kids under 12 can't be vaccinated yet, but kids that age are much less likely to pass on the virus to others). The U.S. is 31% away from that goal. You see? We are much, much closer to herd immunity than America. That means virus transmission is much more difficult in Canada than in the U.S. Now, it isn't that simple because certain areas in both countries are well above or below the national average. In Canada there are religious communities and political enclaves that are refusing vaccines in larger percentages than the average. Same in the States, for cultural or political reasons. But overall, two neighboring countries with mostly similar demographics have massively different stats. The obvious difference is that Canadians have been more diligent regarding covid precautions, and much more willing to be vaccinated.
A brief synopsis of my heroine peril stories is linked below.
viewtopic.php?f=70&t=34624
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

Post by Femina »

Mr. X wrote: 3 weeks ago
Femina wrote: 3 weeks ago I swear, if Covid was a killer robot with an M-16 you idiots would swear it was a government plot and stand in the middle of the street pretending like bullets can't hurt you.
Robot with a gun. Like a GOVERNMENT military drone strike?

In fact the only entity that makes robots that kill and have guns on them are the government. Private sector makes robots to make things and service things and grow crops. So yeah I'd immediately look at the only entity that makes robots that kill.
Actually the Private sector makes MOST of the Drones and sells them to the Millitary for money who then strap guns (by and large also engineered by the private sector) onto them. Then a team of government employed engineers spend some time with the drone to make sure that the private company hasn't built the cheapest piece of shit imaginable for a quick buck, which 9 times out of 10 they have.

My brother in law's entire job is testing these individually purchased drones ahead of any proposed contracts.

The government itself hardly builds anything, they've pretty much ALWAYS just purchased things that private companies make and sell to them. If they have any moral qualms about selling their product to an entity that's going to strap guns onto it, than they don't make those qualms public very often and it doesn't stop them from bathing in the blood money.

You're adoration of the private sector remains awfully romantic.
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

Post by Mr. X »

Femina wrote: 3 weeks ago
Actually the Private sector makes MOST of the Drones and sells them to the Millitary for money who then strap guns (by and large also engineered by the private sector) onto them. Then a team of government employed engineers spend some time with the drone to make sure that the private company hasn't built the cheapest piece of shit imaginable for a quick buck, which 9 times out of 10 they have.
Who took the money by force? Who commissioned the drones? Who then sends the drones into a country and kills civilians with it? Its not big tampon or big M&Ms
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

Post by Femina »

Mr. X wrote: 3 weeks ago
Femina wrote: 3 weeks ago
Actually the Private sector makes MOST of the Drones and sells them to the Millitary for money who then strap guns (by and large also engineered by the private sector) onto them. Then a team of government employed engineers spend some time with the drone to make sure that the private company hasn't built the cheapest piece of shit imaginable for a quick buck, which 9 times out of 10 they have.
Who took the money by force? Who commissioned the drones? Who then sends the drones into a country and kills civilians with it? Its not big tampon or big M&Ms
Passing the buck doesn't reduce culpability, I know this is a difficult concept for you. It isn't 'by force'. There aren't any companies who have 'no choice' but to build weapons for the millitary, they've all voluntarily entered into this business venture. Who forced the company to build a drone? Who forced Samuel Colt to make the revolver? I'm not calling the Government blameless in this exchange don't read more into my statement than what I've written, yeah it takes real intent and premeditation to drone strike a party of civilians to hopefully murder one man, I'm not absolving anyone of that sin. I'm merely pointing out that the Private Sector holds its own share of the blame and doesn't get to declare itself a sparkling beacon of truth and justice who only plant sunflowers and promote harmony while it continues to build the things the government uses to shoot people with.

Additionally, don't take this as a statement that we shouldn't have a millitary either? I don't believe in a pure human nature. I recognize the NEED for regional entities to have the ability to protect themselves and wage war in the current global cultural climate, or at least in the sense that they all have the same world history to draw experience from. I'm simply not interested in hearing how blameless the private sector is in this vicious circle.
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

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Femina wrote: 3 weeks ago
It isn't 'by force'. There aren't any companies who have 'no choice' but to build weapons for the millitary, they've all voluntarily entered into this business venture.
I am forced to pay for them through tax dollars. What happens to me when I keep saying NO.

As for building them... the company committed no moral wrong buy building them, the gov did when it used them. A gun store can sell guns, its not morally wrong, what I do with the gun is the issue. And the gov contracted the drones. The contractor didn't just make a bunch of drones. If there were no contractors the gov would simply make its own factory.

Given your reasoning the private sector also makes the food that the drone pilot eats... are they no responsible for the deaths by drones? How about the radio and remote equipment? How about the engines?

Colt is not responsible for any deaths... he didn't pull the trigger. You make these bizarre connections to things that don't exist. You make the innocent responsible for the guilty because you have no control over the guilty but some control over the innocent. Like the school principal who punishes the good kids cause only they obey the rules since he has no real power over the bully who does not obey the rules.
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

Post by Femina »

Mr. X wrote: 3 weeks ago
Femina wrote: 3 weeks ago
It isn't 'by force'. There aren't any companies who have 'no choice' but to build weapons for the millitary, they've all voluntarily entered into this business venture.
I am forced to pay for them through tax dollars. What happens to me when I keep saying NO.

As for building them... the company committed no moral wrong buy building them, the gov did when it used them. A gun store can sell guns, its not morally wrong, what I do with the gun is the issue. And the gov contracted the drones. The contractor didn't just make a bunch of drones. If there were no contractors the gov would simply make its own factory.

Given your reasoning the private sector also makes the food that the drone pilot eats... are they no responsible for the deaths by drones? How about the radio and remote equipment? How about the engines?

Colt is not responsible for any deaths... he didn't pull the trigger. You make these bizarre connections to things that don't exist. You make the innocent responsible for the guilty because you have no control over the guilty but some control over the innocent. Like the school principal who punishes the good kids cause only they obey the rules since he has no real power over the bully who does not obey the rules.
I mean I knew it was a difficult concept for you to grasp, I didn't expect you to leap face first into a brick wall.

Whatever, I'll merely reiterate that passing the buck doesn't absolve culpability. If you sell the thing that kills somebody, you're part of the chain that killed them. The reason they differentiate between murder and manslaughter lies somewhere in here.
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

Post by Mr. X »

Femina wrote: 3 weeks ago
I mean I knew it was a difficult concept for you to grasp, I didn't expect you to leap face first into a brick wall.

Whatever, I'll merely reiterate that passing the buck doesn't absolve culpability. If you sell the thing that kills somebody, you're part of the chain that killed them. The reason they differentiate between murder and manslaughter lies somewhere in here.
There is no "passing the buck". Your argument is about as absurd as generational debt or race related guilt. Its irrational. You can't just arbitrarily tie people together. Timothy McVeigh blew up a building with a rental truck full of diesel fuel and fertilizer. We blame HIM not UHaul or the gas station or Home Depot.
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Re: Living in the shadow of the corona virus

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OK gents we are calling time on this
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