The Last Jedi sux: Heres why.. SPOILERS

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Darkdestroyer17

SPOILERS BELOW SPOILERS BELOW:

So before you read. Just know this is my opinion and i only ask you take the time to hear what i have to say.


Episode 7 had issues but i thought it left the star wars trilogy in a good place to do some creative new things.
I went into Episode 8 really excited.

So the movie started off great with a menacing First Order presense and a great space battle. The Dreadnought was a really cool ship and i felt fear seeing it.
I liked the space battle as a result and the heart wrenching sacrifice made by the rebels to take down the ship. The movie then moved on to Luke and rey from where TFA left off. I didnt mind it and i liked the interaction between luke and rey. I dont like how luke just quit and hid. I get being disillusioned but just straight up hiding the galxy be damned? Thats the Luke that never gave up on his father? Thats the Luke despite being knocked down time after time he never lost hope and killed the empire? WHY IS LUKE A COWARD?

He sensed Darkness in Kylo and his fear was so great he tried to kill him? Luke is tarnished forever. To coward to go and actually face kylo in person? All that just do die anyway? A force a hologram really? LUKE DIDN'T DO SHIT IN THIS MOVIE I SEE WHY MARK HAMILL WAS SO DOWN IN INTERVIEWS FUCK I WANNA CRY. They ruined Luke and the original trilogy in the process.

Leia got blown up and not a mark on her? Shes difting in space and is able to force pull herself to safety? Does the force require any training at all??? I really miss Jedi like Obi Wan. Not saying the prequels were great but the force made more sense.

Finn was totally pointless and im fucking pissed. He had so much potiential but they basically just made him a pointless filler. HE DIDNT EVEN DO THE THING HE SET OUT TO DO WHICH WAS SHUT DOWN THE TRACKER....Im so mad im so mad. Phasma was dissapointing. So disappointing. Why was she there...why why why.... wtf.
Poe was okay in moments but he just seemed foolish throughout. Overall not so bad.

Yoda showing up brought happiness to my heart until him having to still sheppard Luke showed me that Luke really has learned nothing. Hes not a Jedi Master at all. Fuck.

Lastly i want to discuss Kylo and Rey and Snoke.

So i was REALLLY ENTHRALLED in their connection and conversation through the force. Them getting along and making a connection was really riveting. I didnt know where things were going. I really thought the force itself was connecting them and i was ALL IN. When they touched hands was the moment i knew that (or thought i knew) that they were about go off the beaten path and go for something truly new. Rey and Kylo uniting against snoke. The dark side and Light side by side. It will take yin AND yang to defeat the first order and what was easily the most powerful force user ever in Star Wars in snoke. Who throughout i LOVED. He was RAW POWER and Evil.... I was so excited to find out about his backround until once again i realised we were teased with a cool twist and it all got taken away. Myself and the audience cheered when Kylo saved Rey and killed snoke and they fought side by side yin and yang. Until it was all revealed to be a plot device to place Kylo as the head of the first order... YAWN. Episode 9 is doomed. it just is its going to have our main villain defeated again by a heroine with no plot development at all... Literally her parents were no one. THEY LITERAL SAID HER PARENTS WERE NO ONE. NO BACKGROUND ON HER ABILITIES..... But as i said with Leia ...it appears the new canon is that the force is easily acessible and mastered ... BY THE WAY LUKE TAUGHT HER NOTHING...REALLY THINK ABOUT IT....ASIDE FROM BEING AFRAID WHAT DID LUKE TEACH HER?......Exactly NOTHING. Cause Rey doesnt need anyone she can do everything at the expense of every other character in the history of star wars ever.... (before you say it...Anakin had 9 years of training and has done nothing that rey hasnt done just because she can.)

Btw this might be the first star wars movie ever with out a proper light saber duel....seriously i cant remember any two light light sabers clashing.... (aside from the scene where Luke tried to murder Kylo in his sleep).

So Luke is gone and we are left with a bitchy Villain who already got his ass beat by our protaginist who has no plot development or payoff. Im really said that they decided to use our first female lead as a gimmicky ploy for what they think is being feminist. (feminism is not a bad thing they just dont get it). They have just made her entirely unrelatable...female relative of mine said as much ... meh is the description she gave. Meh is right...i have a villain i cant take seriously and a heroine i cant relate to.... I am deeply concerned for episode 9. Deeply.... This movie gives the illusion of risk throughout but instead they have chosen to go the safe route once again... Disney I really hate you.


Thanks for reading,

From a life long star wars fan...
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I thought it was good. The second chunk of it is kind of bloated, but was an interesting little snapshot of life away from the war and how the seeds of Rebellion are planted.

It's like Empire. Lot of people hated Empire at first, it's unsatisfying to see a movie where the bad guys win. But like with Empire it's a much better movie than the one before it and I think we'll see the pay off in the next film.
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SPOILERS obviously...

Eh, you're wrong. I mean don't get ME wrong, the film has its problems just like TFA had its problems. But a film having problems doesn't make it a bad film. If anything this felt like a direct response to people being annoyed with how similar TFA was to the source that they seemed intent upon subverting every possible expectation to the point where they probably went a ways to far.

I like the movie a lot, but I feel like it failed as a middle installment of a trilogy. As part of an ARC a film is supposed to work with that arc, the Director and writers here clearly just made their own standalone thing and wedged it in... and may have done serious damage to the overall trilogy in the process... but they didn't actually make a bad movie, they made a really good standalone movie that was a poor 'saga' film.

The movie is about letting go of the past and about heroes coming up from nothing... and it follows this thread through pretty well. There's a few missteps and some bloat along the way ( and seriously... NEVER TRUST BENECIO DEL TORO!) but most of the important moving parts all work to reinforce the films prime directive......

and that's why it isn't actually a good Sequel to its predecessor, or a good prequel for its successor.

The biggest issue with this film is that it doesn't leave me wondering or particularly excited about the sequel... The most important military mind behind the First Order is dead, he's got a replacement but not one that is particularly frightening to audiences or moviegoers. Since Kylo Ren couldn't defeat Rey with blossoming force powers, he sure as hell isn't going to defeat Rey with her shit together... so there isn't a particularly frightening villain to offset our heroes. This leaves 'the First Order' and their potential to destroy the galaxy/rebels or whatevers as the real potential focus... but it is both 'faceless; and now the leader of the First Order is an emotional train wreck with little by the way of strategic patience or vision... so the rebellions success seems assured... and while I don't actually think the rebellion or the heroes should or possibly could lose (not in a Star Wars Film) the 'threat' of it is important for the saga's sense of tension and drama, which this film had plenty of... but has sort of undercut it's successor of as well.

Edit: Two things to note in response to the OP. The first is that while yes 'Anakin' had nine years of training and junk, Luke didn't have much training at all either when he defeated the empire (and a lot less natural fighting prowesse than Rey BEGAN with already)

The second is that the first Star Wars film without a proper lightsaber fight was Rogue One. The lightsaber fighting in this film was just as good as the lightsaber stuff from Rogue One when you remove the fact that 'omfg it's Vaaaaader!' from the equation.
Darkdestroyer17

Dogfish wrote:
6 years ago
It's like Empire. Lot of people hated Empire at first, it's unsatisfying to see a movie where the bad guys win. But like with Empire it's a much better movie than the one before it and I think we'll see the pay off in the next film.
Its not like empire because its created irreparable problems going forward. Specifically with how people will view Luke as a total failure and the villain as a total bitch. Rey is like that flavor of ice cream you feel you should like but theres like something missing. (character development). Also the force is cheap now.
Femina wrote:
6 years ago
SPOILERS obviously...

I agree whole heartedly about Kylo and Rey and that there is really nothing that can happen in 9 that we didn't see already. And while it might work as a standalone its not. It not only creates issues with this trilogy it tarnishes the past movies. Also while it did subvert expectations for the movie initially nearly every twist and risk it took got taken back. So in the end the safe route was taken. Luke did get training on dagoba and im not saying Rey requires years of training to work but literally any will do. As of now STILL she has zero training.

Yes you're right about rogue one i guess i was thinking about the main saga.
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Darkdestroyer17 wrote:
6 years ago
Luke did get training on dagoba and im not saying Rey requires years of training to work but literally any will do. As of now STILL she has zero training.

Yes you're right about rogue one i guess i was thinking about the main saga.
What's pretty funny is that if you think about it chronologically Luke's training on Degobah is actually VERY comparable to Rey's training. Luke seemed to be on Degobah for what seemed like weeks and weeks while Han and them were all doing this thing that only seemed to happen in a day or two... and here you've got the slowest starship chase in history that's going by over a period of about 24 hours.... and Rey's off training for what seems like days and days.

I actually think that we were seeing things a bit differently. I think we were seeing Rey's time from the immediate end of the last film... but I think it had actually been a little while for the rest of the characters when we pick up for that space battle.
Darkdestroyer17

Femina wrote:
6 years ago
Darkdestroyer17 wrote:
6 years ago
Luke did get training on dagoba and im not saying Rey requires years of training to work but literally any will do. As of now STILL she has zero training.

Yes you're right about rogue one i guess i was thinking about the main saga.
What's pretty funny is that if you think about it chronologically Luke's training on Degobah is actually VERY comparable to Rey's training. Luke seemed to be on Degobah for what seemed like weeks and weeks while Han and them were all doing this thing that only seemed to happen in a day or two... and here you've got the slowest starship chase in history that's going by over a period of about 24 hours.... and Rey's off training for what seems like days and days.

I actually think that we were seeing things a bit differently. I think we were seeing Rey's time from the immediate end of the last film... but I think it had actually been a little while for the rest of the characters when we pick up for that space battle.
NOOO it literally picked up from when she handed him the light saber at the end of tfa... Besides Luke literally did not train her...she had no training....Rey had no training at all i fail to see it....Degobah is strong in the force so time passes differently on it...that's why yoda aged so quickly .... Like she spent most of the time convincing him to train her and when he decided to he just told her to resist the dark side...literally you cant name a single lesson he taught her. You could argue that kylo was teaching her more in on Ak tu then luke did.
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Spoiler
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MH GRAFTED LONG AND HARD TO DELIVER IT FOR US, so PLEASE USE IT
In the full edit mode for making a post its across the top above the text box (where it says' B' for bold 'I' for italic, 'U' for underline etc RIGHT ON THE FAR RIGHT SIDE IT SHOWS AS AN EYE SYMBOL WITH A SLASH THROUGH IT NEXT TO THE 'SCREENPLAY' button)
Put it to good use
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I wish Rey would have found herself in the clutches of the Hutts and then in the slave bikini....carry on that slave legacy of the Hutts enslaving their female captives. That was one complaint I also have of Amidala, I am watching attack of thw clones Today and she would have been a perfect girl to wear that bikini too....those aliens just were hell bent on killing her...why not capture and enslave her?
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Have to say it is an incredibly brave movie that turns up this late in an established series and has the guts to be so overtly iconoclastic. Burn the Jedi texts. Make Luke a withdrawn, and flawed old man. Kill the Big Bad without any fanfare or posturing. It's brutal but probably necessary.
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Dogfish wrote:
6 years ago
Have to say it is an incredibly brave movie that turns up this late in an established series and has the guts to be so overtly iconoclastic. Burn the Jedi texts. Make Luke a withdrawn, and flawed old man. Kill the Big Bad without any fanfare or posturing. It's brutal but probably necessary.
I think this describes the franchise in general. Just kill it.
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Mr. X wrote:
6 years ago
Dogfish wrote:
6 years ago
Have to say it is an incredibly brave movie that turns up this late in an established series and has the guts to be so overtly iconoclastic. Burn the Jedi texts. Make Luke a withdrawn, and flawed old man. Kill the Big Bad without any fanfare or posturing. It's brutal but probably necessary.
I think this describes the franchise in general. Just kill it.
Why should they kill it while it's still bringing in HUGE profits from ticket sales and merchandising? Is it common to kill the goose that lays the golden eggs?

Star Wars will end when it eventually becomes unprofitable. What's more likely to happen, however, is that a significant drop in profits - rather than an actual loss - will result in the franchise being shelved for a few years and then relaunched again. I can't see that drop-off happening in the immediate future, though.

So you don't like the newfangled films much? Fair enough. Don't watch them, then. If enough like-minded folk agree with you, your collective consumer apathy will harm the prospects for further films in the series.

It's not really logical to expect Disney to "kill" a massive money-spinner while it's still spinning money massively. Just because you don't like the new stuff.
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Mr. X wrote:
6 years ago
Dogfish wrote:
6 years ago
Have to say it is an incredibly brave movie that turns up this late in an established series and has the guts to be so overtly iconoclastic. Burn the Jedi texts. Make Luke a withdrawn, and flawed old man. Kill the Big Bad without any fanfare or posturing. It's brutal but probably necessary.
I think this describes the franchise in general. Just kill it.
They're not killing it, they're just scraping off the barnacles. Which is to say the people who have been fans for thirty years or so years and think they own it. It's a hard rejection of the fan service folks have come to expect from series like this. Anybody who is alienated by the movie seeking to tell a new and interesting story rather than service their wish fulfilment for what a movie should have is shit out of luck I guess.

That being said, we've only got one more main movie in this trilogy and then I guess that's it. It might not be technically it, I mean I expect Disney to be popping out Star Wars movies like nobody's business forever, but this is the end. So, I mean, whatever. Guess we'll see where it ends up.
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I think it should be killed off. same with Star trek. I would imagine the younger generation is sick and tired of skid stained hand me downs. Let them make something new they can call their own.

You can't tell new stories by just revamping an old story. Reimaging is not story telling. Its unimaginative and lazy.

Just kill it off and let something new grow in its place.
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The bottom line is that Disney can be pretty confident that a Star Wars movie will gross well over a billion dollars. A comparable new franchise-launcher - with many of the same elements as Star Wars and a similar budget - cannot be guaranteed to make anywhere near that much money. In fact, many attempts to replicate the Star Wars formula have failed miserably.

Disney will keep making Star Wars until the demand wanes. And with TLJ making $450 million over the last weekend alone, there's no sign of that decline happening anytime soon.

Many businesses become risk-averse when certain products have proven themselves as consistent crowd-pleasers. Which is exactly why parodies of Batgirl, Supergirl and Wonder Woman dominate the SHiP genre.
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Mr. X wrote:
6 years ago
I think it should be killed off. same with Star trek. I would imagine the younger generation is sick and tired of skid stained hand me downs. Let them make something new they can call their own.

You can't tell new stories by just revamping an old story. Reimaging is not story telling. Its unimaginative and lazy.

Just kill it off and let something new grow in its place.
If they were they wouldn't watch it?
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Femina wrote:
6 years ago
Mr. X wrote:
6 years ago
I think it should be killed off. same with Star trek. I would imagine the younger generation is sick and tired of skid stained hand me downs. Let them make something new they can call their own.

You can't tell new stories by just revamping an old story. Reimaging is not story telling. Its unimaginative and lazy.

Just kill it off and let something new grow in its place.
If they were they wouldn't watch it?
Not going to have a lot of choice in the future are they? If Disney wants something to be culturally significant, you better believe it will be. There's no competing with The Mouse.
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Femina wrote:
6 years ago
Mr. X wrote:
6 years ago
I think it should be killed off. same with Star trek. I would imagine the younger generation is sick and tired of skid stained hand me downs. Let them make something new they can call their own.

You can't tell new stories by just revamping an old story. Reimaging is not story telling. Its unimaginative and lazy.

Just kill it off and let something new grow in its place.
If they were they wouldn't watch it?

Eskimos love blubber cause that's all they serve at the all you can eat arctic buffet.
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Mr. X wrote:
6 years ago
Femina wrote:
6 years ago
Mr. X wrote:
6 years ago
I think it should be killed off. same with Star trek. I would imagine the younger generation is sick and tired of skid stained hand me downs. Let them make something new they can call their own.

You can't tell new stories by just revamping an old story. Reimaging is not story telling. Its unimaginative and lazy.

Just kill it off and let something new grow in its place.
If they were they wouldn't watch it?

Eskimos love blubber cause that's all they serve at the all you can eat arctic buffet.
Oh come on, this is the beer tasting room all over again? If people didn't like Star Wars they wouldn't watch it. That's not an argument it's just... what is. That Eskimos analogy is... I don't even know what that is. If you showed Eskimos Star Wars they might just flip out and enjoy it while they ate their blubber. New things are getting made all the time for the Eskimos to eat, but that doesn't mean their gonna stop eating blubber... I saw several interesting trailers for new potential properties in the trailers for Star Wars.

What is with you and these analogies lately?
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:hmm:
Mr. X wrote:
6 years ago
Femina wrote:
6 years ago


If they were they wouldn't watch it?

Eskimos love blubber cause that's all they serve at the all you can eat arctic buffet.
How does one new Star Wars movie per year relate to it being all that's on the menu?

Here's the list of 2017 theatrical releases:
https://www.cinemablend.com/news/158584 ... e-schedule


Yes, there's certainly a heavily reliance on sequels, prequels, spin-offs, remakes, reboots and reimaginings. However, the low-risk existing properties also help the studios to fund a lot of new stuff too.

There's probably more new material on that list than there was released during whatever year you want to pick as the Golden Age when Hollywood was original.

Star Wars doesn't bring in the GDP of a small country because there's nothing else to watch. It brings in such astonishingly gargantuan sums of cash because a load more people choose to watch it than almost any other franchise.
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Are people for change or aren't they? Reimaging some old junk is NOT being creative. And at some point this process alienates the original fans who are the ones paying. Sure these people will probably stagger in and watch a Star Wars movie cause they like the theater experience. And yes this will make money overseas. However this is the second movie I refused to go to. For me the franchise needs to die.

If all the motivation for making these movies is to plop out a movie with the title Star Wars on it every two years to get some cash then its hardly a creative franchise. Its just serving blubber.
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Mr. X wrote:
6 years ago
Are people for change or aren't they? Reimaging some old junk is NOT being creative. And at some point this process alienates the original fans who are the ones paying. Sure these people will probably stagger in and watch a Star Wars movie cause they like the theater experience. And yes this will make money overseas. However this is the second movie I refused to go to. For me the franchise needs to die.

If all the motivation for making these movies is to plop out a movie with the title Star Wars on it every two years to get some cash then its hardly a creative franchise. Its just serving blubber.
I'm confused. Are you saying 'the original fans are the ones paying' as in 'they are keeping the franchise afloat?' or as in 'they are hurting because of this'? If it's the former than I'm pretty sure you're just wrong. The 'original' fans are middle-age to old now. If you count fans picked up young by the prequels their in their twenties and thirties... so you've got multiple generations, but frankly, the movies are making so much money that it is basically clear everyone who goes to see movies is going to see them.

I get your opinion, I can respect that you'd prefer Disney and others work on something original... but to say that Star Wars is currently 'dying' is a bit premature. It survived the prequels, it can survive a much better series of films.

And to answer your very first question... I'm sadly pretty sure it's No, people aren't for change. Change mostly scares people. Sometimes that's detrimental to them, sometimes it isn't.
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Star Wars only exists now to make money. Its only being milked. I think the reimaging is akin to inheriting your parents house then burning it down for entertainment.

Ultimately this younger generation has nothing new to call their own and this is in part to these dinosaur franchises being in the way. The reason why some younger people do not respect the ideas or story lines of the original material cause its a hand me down. Just listen to Mark Hamils (sp?) complaints about this movie.

Star Wars is not dead as a money maker. Its dead as a story line and original entertainment. You can still get a few more squirts of blood beating that dead horse.
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So, regarding Star Wars, Mr. X is basically saying, "Let the past die. Kill it if you have to." Mr. X. is Kylo Ren CONFIRMED!

Sorry for the rant, but I wanted to give my three cents on Last Jedi.

SPOILERS:

As far as the movie it wouldn't say it sucked i had an enjoying experience, but the OP is right and I can't argue against a single complaint. I was a fierce defender of The Force Awakens. Sure, it had flaws but I thought it set the table perfectly for a whole new trilogy, gave room to expand on the characters, and left room for some big reveals down the road. I also thought its flaws had a chance to be worked out in Last Jedi. So I was excited and still hopeful for this trilogy. After seeing the movie, now I feel the critics of TFA were totally on point, and I blame that complete shit head, Rian Johnson. As much as Lucas ruined the prequel, Johnson effed this new trilogy so hard it can't even walk anymore. He totally fucked over the characters, which were gift wrapped for him.

Kylo Ren shouldn't be the villain in this movie.This may be the first time in Star Wars history where the villains absolutely suck. Every other Star Wars movie went out of their way to make the villain appear dangerous, evil and powerful. This movie does the opposite. Kylo Ren is a bitch and I thought maybe there was a reason for that. I thought maybe they were trying to make me feel sorry for him. How can he lose in the first movie and expect to be taken seriously? Last Jedi was the chance to "complete his training" and make Kylo badass. OR at the very least, like another poster said, maybe Kylo isn't the big bad and maybe he needs Rey to join him to beat the real big bad (Snoke, maybe an evil Luke), like the Yin and the Yang. That was a brilliant idea. Maybe Rey turns to the dark and Kylo to the light. Something to explain why he's so shitty, or something to make him badass. Of course, none of that happened.

Finn is a removable character. How the fuck do you not expand on him? He's a deserter, he's trying to find a reason to fight. Does any of his character develop or expand? Fuck no. He served no purpose whatsoever. He's just there to kill Phasma who is equally useless and no emotional connection is ever made between them. I'm hoping Finn never actually woke up and that he's still in a coma so the events of this movie never happen. Thats the only thing saving this trilogy.

Rey learns nothing from Luke and yet is the most powerful Jedi ever. Okay. I thought she needed to be knocked down a peg in this movie or several after already pwning Kylo. It didn't happen. And the big reveal of her parents? Nothing. Unless that was a lie, the big mystery was nothing. Fuck me...

Luke's interactions with Rey, I actually enjoyed. This is the first time Luke isn't a whiny bitch and actually has some good lines, although he just gives up. I get that he should be devastated about Kylo but come on. Yoda appears and he too is useless. Luke is about to burn the Jedi texts when Yoda stops him only to do it away himself. WTF?! All Yoda does is encourage Luke to project himself. Fuck that. Get out there and fight. Don't tell me he can't leave because his x-Wing is under water. When has that stopped him. Luke needed to redeem himself for doing nothing while the galaxy went to hell. Now he's "dead" and no redemption for him either, no payoff, no closure. Wow.

Snoke. Jesus, how did this fuck this up. Rey being presented to Snoke felt like Return of the Jedi, which would have made sense if there wasn't an entire other movie to go. If Kylo sucks Snoke has to be all the more badass. And who the fuck is he and where did he come from? I hoped to get some answers. Nope, just fucking dead. Now i'll never know i guess. Great job guards and how stupid is he to not see that coming in the first place? Kylo is the big bad and that's terrible. Not even Hux is scared of Kylo and who can blame him.

Poe is useless. Everything he set out to do led nowhere. Awesome storytelling there...

Leia's flying through space was the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen.

Sigh, I'm glad Last Jedi wasn't a rehash of Empire Strike Back like TFA was a rehash of ANH but what made Empire awesome was how the characters grew and expanded built on their relationships and had a shocking reveal with a great story on top of that. In Last Jedi every character is developmentally exactly where they were after TFA, the story was pointless and the relationship between Rey and Finn that started in TFA never expanded whatsoever.

I don't know how this trilogy moves forward. I'll just try to enjoy them as much as I can. I think because its Star Wars there's a super high expectation that can never be met. Will I see the next movie, fuck yea. Will it make any sense? Probably not.
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Ninja J. wrote:
6 years ago
So, regarding Star Wars, Mr. X is basically saying, "Let the past die. Kill it if you have to." Mr. X. is Kylo Ren CONFIRMED!

Actually, from what I understand of the movie, I would be Luke. He's the one who wanted to end the system.
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One of the clues to Rey being a super awesome Jedi might be in the title to the first new movie, The Force Awakens. Maybe the Force is up to something. It's hinted at in the end of The Last Jedi when the little kid working in the stable force pulls his broom to him so he can do his sweeping (it's a tiny little detail, but the broom goes to his hand when he reaches for it).

Have to say though I'm impressed by how salty the movie has made so many people. Lucas proved, unintentionally, that if you make the movies the fans think they want you're going to make absolutely wretched movies. To make a movie actually worth watching a lot of the fans were going to have to get burned. Johnson has made a movie that has some fans raging (not to mention an orchestrated hate campaign by the alt-right nerd fringe), but which manages to be surprising in many ways, entirely unpredictable and that benefits from deeper analysis and rewatching in ways that the last movie didn't.
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Mr. X wrote:
6 years ago
Ninja J. wrote:
6 years ago
So, regarding Star Wars, Mr. X is basically saying, "Let the past die. Kill it if you have to." Mr. X. is Kylo Ren CONFIRMED!

Actually, from what I understand of the movie, I would be Luke. He's the one who wanted to end the system.
Not in the same way. The whole 'kill the past' thing is Kylo's whole philosophy now.
Dogfish wrote:
6 years ago
One of the clues to Rey being a super awesome Jedi might be in the title to the first new movie, The Force Awakens. Maybe the Force is up to something. It's hinted at in the end of The Last Jedi when the little kid working in the stable force pulls his broom to him so he can do his sweeping (it's a tiny little detail, but the broom goes to his hand when he reaches for it).

Have to say though I'm impressed by how salty the movie has made so many people. Lucas proved, unintentionally, that if you make the movies the fans think they want you're going to make absolutely wretched movies. To make a movie actually worth watching a lot of the fans were going to have to get burned. Johnson has made a movie that has some fans raging (not to mention an orchestrated hate campaign by the alt-right nerd fringe), but which manages to be surprising in many ways, entirely unpredictable and that benefits from deeper analysis and rewatching in ways that the last movie didn't.
The thing is that it's a pretty good movie... but it's a bad sequel and a bad prequel. Essentially, a really tenuous position for the connective tissue of a trilogy. I sort of think I know the reason now why so many directors have come and gone for the third outing... I think none of them have any ideas on how to pull it all around into a satisfying conclusion. Not that a Genre defying film can't do Star Wars some good or anything... it just probably should have been done in his standalone trilogy where the framework could better support it... and it could better support the framework.
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So I’ve seen Last Jedi once and like many of you was shocked by the inexplicable uses of The Force (Leia flying in space did stretch believability for me and Rey and Kylo seeing each other across space needed better setup imho). But I think we’d be foolish to take everything we saw and heard in this film at face value.

I’m a fan of a YouTube channel called Star Wars Theory. The host seems to have connections to someone in the know with these films and one of the theories he just spouted was that Snoke is not actually dead. That he too may have been a projection like Luke at the end of Last Jedi and like Rey and Kylo were beginning to imperfectly do with each other all throughout the film. Granted, his death does seem pretty final and I’m not sure I’m sold on this theory yet...but nevertheless it exists. And would explain why Rey and Kylo’s Force link exists after his “death”, assuming Snoke was telling the truth when he said he bridged the two in the first place.



As for Rey’s parents, what Kylo said was almost certainly a lie. He was manipulating Rey into joining him and he knew the best way to get her to lean on him was to tell her she is nobody. A nobody that he will give a seat at the table to. And ultimately she rejects that. Johnson is also pointedly on the record saying that everything Kylo says to her depends on “a certain point of view”. And if that isn’t a give away for Episode 9’s reveal of Rey as the granddaughter of Obi-Wan I don’t know what is. Coupled with the fact that Obi-Wan has not made an appearance yet as a Force ghost (where he’d likely spill the beans on Rey) and has a solo film on the way that will delve into his years in Tatooine (he’ll almost certainly take a lover and there is precedent for this in the fantastic Clone Wars series), I think we’ll get a more than satisfactory answer to who Rey’s parents are. For more, I’d again direct you to another excellent vid from Star Wars Theory:



As for Luke, it’s hard not feel bad for Hamill. It’s clear he wasn’t consulted on the direction for his character at any point in the process. While I’m not sure I’d go so far as to say the new films turn him into a coward, I will say he isn’t the bold character I remember from the original trilogy. I’m hoping we get a Luke film or animated series that will explore that shift for him and make it digestible much like Clone Wars added nuance and depth to Anakin’s dark destiny in a way that Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith did not. For me it’s still too soon to judge Luke. But I understand the backlash. And it’s hard not to agree with Hamill that his entrance in The Force Awakens would have been MUCH cooler if after seeing Kylo defeat Finn AND Rey, Luke had summoned the lightsaber and defeated Kylo before taking Rey away for training/Rey follows Luke back to his hideaway to force him to train her. It would also have been nice to see Luke and Han have a moment, even if fleeting where he is too late to save him from Kylo.

Thoughts?
Darkdestroyer17

Mark Hamill acknowledging the issue with the inconsistency of Luke in the lest Jedi.

Darkdestroyer17

Night_Lantern wrote:
6 years ago
I highly Doubt Kylo was lying since Rian Johnson stated he wasnt. I also was routing for an obi wan lineage that will only enhance the obi wan stand alone. I AGREE KYLO SHOULD HAVE DEFEATED REY AND FINN ON STARKILLER BASE AND EVEN MARK HAMILL WANTED LUKE TO CATCH THE LIGHTSABER!!!! But no Rey is to strong of a female lead to need a man to saver her..Zzzzz.... Now we are probably doomed, as another forum member mentioned after TFA, to see Rey defeat Kylo in episode 9 once again even though we have seen that already...and now that there is no snoke.....there is no obstacle. Rey and Kylo shouldve have teamed up against the uber powerful snoke. Maybe hes so powerful it will take both the yin and the yang to defeat him. The light and the dark working as one... but no even though it was kind of leading to that the movie retracted it.

P.S Star Wars Theory is also a fav of mine.
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Darkdestroyer17 wrote:
6 years ago
Night_Lantern wrote:
6 years ago
I highly Doubt Kylo was lying since Rian Johnson stated he wasnt. I also was routing for an obi wan lineage that will only enhance the obi wan stand alone. I AGREE KYLO SHOULD HAVE DEFEATED REY AND FINN ON STARKILLER BASE AND EVEN MARK HAMILL WANTED LUKE TO CATCH THE LIGHTSABER!!!! But no Rey is to strong of a female lead to need a man to saver her..Zzzzz.... Now we are probably doomed, as another forum member mentioned after TFA, to see Rey defeat Kylo in episode 9 once again even though we have seen that already...and now that there is no snoke.....there is no obstacle. Rey and Kylo shouldve have teamed up against the uber powerful snoke. Maybe hes so powerful it will take both the yin and the yang to defeat him. The light and the dark working as one... but no even though it was kind of leading to that the movie retracted it.

P.S Star Wars Theory is also a fav of mine.
The issue here is, if Kylo beats Rey in 9 then the bad guys win at the END... in a Star Wars series. Which might shake things up thematically but it slaps Star Wars (A typically feel good series) down into the same muck as the current modern thread of 'dark gritty' films which is a place Star Wars really REALLY does not belong. I agree though, this film sort of robs its sequel from a lot of the things that were set up in the last one. If Kylo couldn't beat her before, he's not gonna beat her now that she's got her shit together and he's even more of an emotional wreck than ever..... personally I'm rooting for your final statement there 'yin/yang working together' something I've sort of wanted to see since Knights of the Old Republic 2 ended..... but I don't think it will happen, because I really do think Snoke is dead and introducing a mega powerful superboss in the middle of the final act is....... terrible narrative structure...


In general I'm a little surprised people are having difficulty with Leah's space walk. In the 'Legends' cannon she was basically a fully trained force user who just chose not to use it most of the time (she gave up her lightsaber cause she like... didn't like how deadly it made her or something like that) that an older Leah would therefore here have some pretty powerful force abilities seeing that she is the same lineage as Luke is sort of a givein?
Darkdestroyer17

Femina wrote:
6 years ago
Darkdestroyer17 wrote:
6 years ago
Night_Lantern wrote:
6 years ago
I highly Doubt Kylo was lying since Rian Johnson stated he wasnt. I also was routing for an obi wan lineage that will only enhance the obi wan stand alone. I AGREE KYLO SHOULD HAVE DEFEATED REY AND FINN ON STARKILLER BASE AND EVEN MARK HAMILL WANTED LUKE TO CATCH THE LIGHTSABER!!!! But no Rey is to strong of a female lead to need a man to saver her..Zzzzz.... Now we are probably doomed, as another forum member mentioned after TFA, to see Rey defeat Kylo in episode 9 once again even though we have seen that already...and now that there is no snoke.....there is no obstacle. Rey and Kylo shouldve have teamed up against the uber powerful snoke. Maybe hes so powerful it will take both the yin and the yang to defeat him. The light and the dark working as one... but no even though it was kind of leading to that the movie retracted it.

P.S Star Wars Theory is also a fav of mine.
The issue here is, if Kylo beats Rey in 9 then the bad guys win at the END... in a Star Wars series. Which might shake things up thematically but it slaps Star Wars (A typically feel good series) down into the same muck as the current modern thread of 'dark gritty' films which is a place Star Wars really REALLY does not belong. I agree though, this film sort of robs its sequel from a lot of the things that were set up in the last one. If Kylo couldn't beat her before, he's not gonna beat her now that she's got her shit together and he's even more of an emotional wreck than ever..... personally I'm rooting for your final statement there 'yin/yang working together' something I've sort of wanted to see since Knights of the Old Republic 2 ended..... but I don't think it will happen, because I really do think Snoke is dead and introducing a mega powerful superboss in the middle of the final act is....... terrible narrative structure...


In general I'm a little surprised people are having difficulty with Leah's space walk. In the 'Legends' cannon she was basically a fully trained force user who just chose not to use it most of the time (she gave up her lightsaber cause she like... didn't like how deadly it made her or something like that) that an older Leah would therefore here have some pretty powerful force abilities seeing that she is the same lineage as Luke is sort of a givein?
Yea the thing is though in this one if they were not going the teaming up route Kylo should have beaten her bad. Luke lost a limb to vader before finally overcoming that obstacle. Rey has no obstacles to over come. Only a selfish internal one about having no parents. Im scared that Adam drivers amazing performance is going to be over shadowed by the fact that no one takes Kylo seriously as a villain. People also forget that the feel good feeling in star wars comes as result of overcoming something. The return of the jedi would've felt like the force awakens if we didn't see the struggle the heroes went through to get there. For the love of god i need someone to explain to me how rey can use the force like that with no training. We cant say she had training in past anymore as Rian Johnson made clear that her parents were no body and she was born on jakku rather than exiled there.

The issue i had with leah wasnt that she used the force to propel herself in already zero gravity, it was the fact that she survived the explosion without a single mark on her.
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Darkdestroyer17 wrote:
6 years ago
Femina wrote:
6 years ago
Darkdestroyer17 wrote:
6 years ago
Night_Lantern wrote:
6 years ago
I highly Doubt Kylo was lying since Rian Johnson stated he wasnt. I also was routing for an obi wan lineage that will only enhance the obi wan stand alone. I AGREE KYLO SHOULD HAVE DEFEATED REY AND FINN ON STARKILLER BASE AND EVEN MARK HAMILL WANTED LUKE TO CATCH THE LIGHTSABER!!!! But no Rey is to strong of a female lead to need a man to saver her..Zzzzz.... Now we are probably doomed, as another forum member mentioned after TFA, to see Rey defeat Kylo in episode 9 once again even though we have seen that already...and now that there is no snoke.....there is no obstacle. Rey and Kylo shouldve have teamed up against the uber powerful snoke. Maybe hes so powerful it will take both the yin and the yang to defeat him. The light and the dark working as one... but no even though it was kind of leading to that the movie retracted it.

P.S Star Wars Theory is also a fav of mine.
The issue here is, if Kylo beats Rey in 9 then the bad guys win at the END... in a Star Wars series. Which might shake things up thematically but it slaps Star Wars (A typically feel good series) down into the same muck as the current modern thread of 'dark gritty' films which is a place Star Wars really REALLY does not belong. I agree though, this film sort of robs its sequel from a lot of the things that were set up in the last one. If Kylo couldn't beat her before, he's not gonna beat her now that she's got her shit together and he's even more of an emotional wreck than ever..... personally I'm rooting for your final statement there 'yin/yang working together' something I've sort of wanted to see since Knights of the Old Republic 2 ended..... but I don't think it will happen, because I really do think Snoke is dead and introducing a mega powerful superboss in the middle of the final act is....... terrible narrative structure...


In general I'm a little surprised people are having difficulty with Leah's space walk. In the 'Legends' cannon she was basically a fully trained force user who just chose not to use it most of the time (she gave up her lightsaber cause she like... didn't like how deadly it made her or something like that) that an older Leah would therefore here have some pretty powerful force abilities seeing that she is the same lineage as Luke is sort of a givein?
Yea the thing is though in this one if they were not going the teaming up route Kylo should have beaten her bad. Luke lost a limb to vader before finally overcoming that obstacle. Rey has no obstacles to over come. Only a selfish internal one about having no parents. Im scared that Adam drivers amazing performance is going to be over shadowed by the fact that no one takes Kylo seriously as a villain. People also forget that the feel good feeling in star wars comes as result of overcoming something. The return of the jedi would've felt like the force awakens if we didn't see the struggle the heroes went through to get there. For the love of god i need someone to explain to me how rey can use the force like that with no training. We cant say she had training in past anymore as Rian Johnson made clear that her parents were no body and she was born on jakku rather than exiled there.

The issue i had with leah wasnt that she used the force to propel herself in already zero gravity, it was the fact that she survived the explosion without a single mark on her.
No don't get me wrong here, the typical trilogy formula often has a middle chapter where the heroes get whooped around a lot. The old: Part One-send him up the pole Part Two-throw rocks at him Part Three-get him back down is something the original trilogy held to... TLJ is just a really strange middle film, they aren't throwing rocks at the heroes, they aren't setting up for a conclusive act, they aren't even really following up on any of its predecessors mysteries and set ups. If part one was the serve, part two should have been the set so that part three could spike the ball... but it's like the player who was supposed to set decided to spike instead, and it mostly worked... but whats the third player supposed to do now? THIS is why episode 9 is going through directors like hotcakes. Nobody knows what to do now.
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Darkdestroyer17 wrote:
6 years ago
Night_Lantern wrote:
6 years ago
I highly Doubt Kylo was lying since Rian Johnson stated he wasnt. I also was routing for an obi wan lineage that will only enhance the obi wan stand alone. I AGREE KYLO SHOULD HAVE DEFEATED REY AND FINN ON STARKILLER BASE AND EVEN MARK HAMILL WANTED LUKE TO CATCH THE LIGHTSABER!!!! But no Rey is to strong of a female lead to need a man to saver her..Zzzzz.... Now we are probably doomed, as another forum member mentioned after TFA, to see Rey defeat Kylo in episode 9 once again even though we have seen that already...and now that there is no snoke.....there is no obstacle. Rey and Kylo shouldve have teamed up against the uber powerful snoke. Maybe hes so powerful it will take both the yin and the yang to defeat him. The light and the dark working as one... but no even though it was kind of leading to that the movie retracted it.

P.S Star Wars Theory is also a fav of mine.
Fair, Kylo wasn’t lying. But he didn’t know the truth either. I still think it’s open season on Rey’s parents and that the Kenobi connection is the most likely. She also has that memory of Obi-Wan saying “These are your first steps” when she touched Luke’s lightsaber.

Really holding out hope that Snoke is still out there. Rey defeating Kylo again would be anticlimactic for Episode 9’s big battle. And they can’t just pull a Big Bad out of their hat for one movie. Using yin and yang to defeat Snoke, who is himself neither Jedi nor Sith, would be very satisfying. But we will see.
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Darkdestroyer17 wrote:
6 years ago
Mark Hamill acknowledging the issue with the inconsistency of Luke in the lest Jedi.

To be fair, it wasn't The Last Jedi that turned Luke into a cowardly hermit who hides from his problems. There really was no logical explanation for him not being front and centre for The Force Awakens. Johnson had to play it where it lay with TLJ.
Darkdestroyer17

Dogfish wrote:
6 years ago
Darkdestroyer17 wrote:
6 years ago
To be fair, it wasn't The Last Jedi that turned Luke into a cowardly hermit who hides from his problems. There really was no logical explanation for him not being front and centre for The Force Awakens. Johnson had to play it where it lay with TLJ.
No it only established that he went in search of the first Jedi Temple. Why would he leave a map if he just wanted to go shrivel and die?
Night_Lantern wrote:
6 years ago
Darkdestroyer17 wrote:
6 years ago
Night_Lantern wrote:
6 years ago
Fair, Kylo wasn’t lying. But he didn’t know the truth either. I still think it’s open season on Rey’s parents and that the Kenobi connection is the most likely. She also has that memory of Obi-Wan saying “These are your first steps” when she touched Luke’s lightsaber.

Really holding out hope that Snoke is still out there. Rey defeating Kylo again would be anticlimactic for Episode 9’s big battle. And they can’t just pull a Big Bad out of their hat for one movie. Using yin and yang to defeat Snoke, who is himself neither Jedi nor Sith, would be very satisfying. But we will see.
As much as id love you to be right and that Snoke returns and we get a Kylo team it just wont happen. We really are doomed for a rehash of episode 7 and Snokes anticlimactic end is going ensure the trilogy ends in the same vein. Also Rey is now doomed to be a mary sue (AS A FORCE USER. I actually easily buy that she is a good fighter having survived on Jakku so long.) now that we know that her parents were nobody and that she was born on jakku not exiled there. Nothing in her past and present explains how she can do all the things she does with the force with no training. Really nothing to look forward to in episode 9.

Femina wrote:
6 years ago
Darkdestroyer17 wrote:
6 years ago
Femina wrote:
6 years ago
Darkdestroyer17 wrote:
6 years ago
Night_Lantern wrote:
6 years ago
Yea the thing is though in this one if they were not going the teaming up route Kylo should have beaten her bad. Luke lost a limb to vader before finally overcoming that obstacle. Rey has no obstacles to over come. Only a selfish internal one about having no parents. Im scared that Adam drivers amazing performance is going to be over shadowed by the fact that no one takes Kylo seriously as a villain. People also forget that the feel good feeling in star wars comes as result of overcoming something. The return of the jedi would've felt like the force awakens if we didn't see the struggle the heroes went through to get there. For the love of god i need someone to explain to me how rey can use the force like that with no training. We cant say she had training in past anymore as Rian Johnson made clear that her parents were no body and she was born on jakku rather than exiled there.

The issue i had with leah wasnt that she used the force to propel herself in already zero gravity, it was the fact that she survived the explosion without a single mark on her.
No don't get me wrong here, the typical trilogy formula often has a middle chapter where the heroes get whooped around a lot. The old: Part One-send him up the pole Part Two-throw rocks at him Part Three-get him back down is something the original trilogy held to... TLJ is just a really strange middle film, they aren't throwing rocks at the heroes, they aren't setting up for a conclusive act, they aren't even really following up on any of its predecessors mysteries and set ups. If part one was the serve, part two should have been the set so that part three could spike the ball... but it's like the player who was supposed to set decided to spike instead, and it mostly worked... but whats the third player supposed to do now? THIS is why episode 9 is going through directors like hotcakes. Nobody knows what to do now.
I like your analogy and i agree with you. It was a movie that felt out of place in many ways. Like a puzzle piece from a different puzzle. Yea i agree now we know why colin trevorrow dipped out. There really isn't much they can do unless they throw caution to the wind and have Rey die or turn...because we already saw her beat Kylo with no training and now that Snoke is gone there is no big bad left...
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I just saw this movie

I gotta say this is probably the best Star Wars movie but only BECAUSE the other Star Wars movies came before it. Its in the right spot.

As a Star Wars type movie, meaning simple entertainment, it falls flat. Its also absurd at some points like dropping bombs on a ship in space.

However it has a singular message which I agree with - tear it all down. Both Luke and Kylo have the same message, the old is in the way and needs to move aside for the young. And this is how I feel about the franchise in general. It needs to die. My generation had Star Wars as a kid. My Dad's generation had Star Trek. This generation of millennials have nothing. Nothing to call their own. Its all skid marked hand me downs from a previous generation of selfish 40 something man children. And Marvel and DC are no different. Their characters are decades old... old hand me downs. Even the actors are old.

SNL had a great skit about this:



Now some themes I thought were bad like not needing wisdom or training and skill and everything will just happen out of "Powers". Rey exemplifies this. No training and she's killing Snokes elite guards. But even with Rey they make a point to disconnect her from the old universe. She's not anyone's daughter... she's a child sold off by scumbags.

I find the message of tearing down the old especially comical coming from Disney who is milking this franchise for everything it can. It reminds me of that joke about the guy trapped in a fortune cookie factory sending out "help me" notes in the cookies. Is the Star Wars franchise sending a message? "Kill us already".

So I'd have to say this movie is great but only cause its in the right place/order at the right time. Let this franchise die. The phoenix has to die so something new can be created and this theme runs through the movie with Luke explaining the cycle of life. And this message needs to get to those die hard fans who are keeping this shit alive.. stop spending money. LET IT DIE.

And the best line:
"Don't fight what you hate, save what you love."
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Mr. X wrote:
6 years ago
I just saw this movie

I gotta say this is probably the best Star Wars movie but only BECAUSE the other Star Wars movies came before it. Its in the right spot.

As a Star Wars type movie, meaning simple entertainment, it falls flat. Its also absurd at some points like dropping bombs on a ship in space.

However it has a singular message which I agree with - tear it all down. Both Luke and Kylo have the same message, the old is in the way and needs to move aside for the young. And this is how I feel about the franchise in general. It needs to die. My generation had Star Wars as a kid. My Dad's generation had Star Trek. This generation of millennials have nothing. Nothing to call their own. Its all skid marked hand me downs from a previous generation of selfish 40 something man children. And Marvel and DC are no different. Their characters are decades old... old hand me downs. Even the actors are old.

SNL had a great skit about this:



Now some themes I thought were bad like not needing wisdom or training and skill and everything will just happen out of "Powers". Rey exemplifies this. No training and she's killing Snokes elite guards. But even with Rey they make a point to disconnect her from the old universe. She's not anyone's daughter... she's a child sold off by scumbags.

I find the message of tearing down the old especially comical coming from Disney who is milking this franchise for everything it can. It reminds me of that joke about the guy trapped in a fortune cookie factory sending out "help me" notes in the cookies. Is the Star Wars franchise sending a message? "Kill us already".

So I'd have to say this movie is great but only cause its in the right place/order at the right time. Let this franchise die. The phoenix has to die so something new can be created and this theme runs through the movie with Luke explaining the cycle of life. And this message needs to get to those die hard fans who are keeping this shit alive.. stop spending money. LET IT DIE.

And the best line:
"Don't fight what you hate, save what you love."
So save Star Wars then?
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Mark my words, Snoke will be around for Episode 9 (either in the flesh or as a Force ghost). And Rey’s parents are not nobodies. It’s a cool idea. But it won’t be the answer. Still putting my chips down on the Kenobi lineage.

As for Trevorrow’s firing, I’m not convinced it’s a bad thing: http://www.vulture.com/2017/09/star-war ... ation.html Sounds like he’s got an overinflated ego for a guy who’s only had success for a couple of years. Ditto for Lord and Miller leaving Han Solo. And you could tell in interviews J.J. was doing around The Force Awakens that he wanted back in that director chair. His admissions that he wasn’t jealous or upset that he wouldn’t get to make any more Star Wars movies never felt genuine to me. So Trevorrow’s firing was more a formality they needed an excuse for.
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I don't like this idea that Rey's family can't be nobodies. Nearly every Jedi is the child of nobodies, because as established in the prequels Jedi Knights don't have kids. So there is absolutely no reason why a force user of great power can't just appear out of nothing, almost literally in the care of Anakin Skywalker. At no point has anybody ever made the claim that force power is hereditary.

It's also a key part of the deconstruction theme that Mr X was talking about. Rey is the new, the radical, the heretic, storming the castle gates.
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Dogfish wrote:
6 years ago
I don't like this idea that Rey's family can't be nobodies. Nearly every Jedi is the child of nobodies, because as established in the prequels Jedi Knights don't have kids. So there is absolutely no reason why a force user of great power can't just appear out of nothing, almost literally in the care of Anakin Skywalker. At no point has anybody ever made the claim that force power is hereditary.

It's also a key part of the deconstruction theme that Mr X was talking about. Rey is the new, the radical, the heretic, storming the castle gates.
Oh I don't mind Rey's parents being nobody as much as some people do. I DO think it was a stupid decision mostly only because so much screen time had to be wasted babbling on about how her parents were nobody. If Rey's parents were nobody they should have simply not made a big deal about the mystery of her parents in the first place. Then you don't wind up with whats going to become some fairly heavily memed content within the film where a character has to literally say 'Your parents are nobody' which is something nobody ever actually has to say to somebody because almost every bodies parents are 'nobody' in the grand scheme of things. It's only a big thing if your parents are SOMEBODY.
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Joseph & Mary were nobodys. Merry Christmas
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^^^^ Di Maggio and Poppins? Nobodies? I disagree.
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I was entertained by The Last Jedi, but still pretty disappointed.

What was the point of Leia revealing her force abilities, only to do nothing with them the rest of the movie?

I was pretty disappointed in Carrie Fisher's performance/role overall. She didn't seem like Leia at all.

Also, that was not the Luke Skywalker I was looking for.

When I saw The Force Awakens, I was like "what happened to the Rebellion that they're reduced to operating out of a muddy field in the middle of nowhere?" Sadly, TLJ answers this question.

Also, wait, the New Republic is completely gone now? WTF?!!!

On the other hand, business really picked up any time Rey or Kylo Ren were on screen, and the scenes with both of them were great.

But overall, it was like:

A Plot (Luke) - DUD
B Plot (Leia and the Resistance) - DUD
C Plot (Rey and Kylo) - Actually pretty great
D Plot (Finn and Rose) - DUD
Cameos from every other Star Wars character - Pretty good, but cameos were all they were. They didn't raise the quality of the movie like Han Solo did in TFA. They were all one scene and done.
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Lurkndog wrote:
6 years ago
I was entertained by The Last Jedi, but still pretty disappointed.

What was the point of Leia revealing her force abilities, only to do nothing with them the rest of the movie?

I was pretty disappointed in Carrie Fisher's performance/role overall. She didn't seem like Leia at all.

Also, that was not the Luke Skywalker I was looking for.

When I saw The Force Awakens, I was like "what happened to the Rebellion that they're reduced to operating out of a muddy field in the middle of nowhere?" Sadly, TLJ answers this question.

Also, wait, the New Republic is completely gone now? WTF?!!!

On the other hand, business really picked up any time Rey or Kylo Ren were on screen, and the scenes with both of them were great.

But overall, it was like:

A Plot (Luke) - DUD
B Plot (Leia and the Resistance) - DUD
C Plot (Rey and Kylo) - Actually pretty great
D Plot (Finn and Rose) - DUD
Cameos from every other Star Wars character - Pretty good, but cameos were all they were. They didn't raise the quality of the movie like Han Solo did in TFA. They were all one scene and done.
I'm pretty sure you're 'C Plot' was the A Plot man...
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tallyho
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Mr. X wrote:
6 years ago


You can't tell new stories by just revamping an old story.
You clearly can as the first SW proves - white knight saves beautiful princess from black knight in his impregnable castle
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tallyho
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Darkdestroyer17 wrote:
6 years ago
[...literally you cant name a single lesson he taught her. You could argue that kylo was teaching her more in on Ak tu then luke did.
I can. He taught her the force was all about balance. A lesson you have failed to learn despite being a lifelong fan, my young padawan.
;)
'Watched more closely you should have'
(Thanks master Yoda)
See, even Yoda's force spirit thinks so :giggle:

Its frivolous entertainment. Its not meant to be life changing, its meant to entertain and sell toys and make money , and not necessarily in that order.

The biggest problem I had ( and there were many ) is that General Hux cant act, only overact. Hes like a pantomime villain. But I saw him on the One Show and now I know why. He's got a really broad Irish accent and I realise now he overpronunces every thing in gramnatical English to try and hide it. The opening scenes were completely ruined by him with his shit delivery, rolling every R in sight
PRRRRRRE- PARRRRRE TO FIRRRRRE !
( fire pronounced as FIYARRRRRRR)
Compare that with Cushings crisp and menacing delivery.
'You may fire when ready'
Soft, polite, calm, understated, professional. This is a man who destroys worlds for a living . Maybe with fleets in the past, and now with the Death Star a different weapon, but killing billions doesnt bother him. He's not excited because he kills on a mass scale all the time. That is menacing, that is frightening. That is the way evil needs to be played. As ordinary, because as a bad guy its your trade.
Not the fucking shambles Gleeson brought to the role.

As only one lead ship was tracking the rebels can anyone tell me why they didnt scatter into 3 different directions and then the Empire could only track one of them? At least 60% of the fleet would get away. Ho hum.
Also why not deploy the ground forces closer, and use all your tie fighters on all your star destroyers instead of 20? Oh yeah its a film.

Shouldnt admirals and generals be in uniforms practical for fighting in rather tgan elegant flowing dresses? No wonder the rebellion is losing.
And all the other star destroyers just sit back and watch the bombers take out the dreadnought? Not much point being in a fleet every ship is on its own.

It was full of holes but entertaining- I liked Snoaks
Spoiler
death
See used the spoiler button like you EARLIER POSTERS SHOULD HAVE!

At the end of the day if I want to watch something meaningful on the nature of good and evil, I'll watch The World at War.

But I did enjoy it for what it was.
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I think General Hux is meant to be a bellend. Cushing was an old school Space Nazi, Hux is a new school Space Twitter Dillhole With Ten Followers And A Frog Avatar.
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tallyho
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Vader woulda choked him in 2 srconds flat. Lol

Thing is if you make leading bad guys the comic relief they lose any aspect of menace and threat. As the First Order are MEANT to be space nazis its crying out for a Cushing type in the role instead of ginge who is way too young to be a general.
But regardless i could live with a dick head character if the guy could act instead of the hammy performance he delivers. He belongs in a delicatessen not a SW movie
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Darkdestroyer17

tallyho wrote:
6 years ago
He taught her the force was about balance but he didn't teach her anything about how to use it.
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