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Dazzle1
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Alert:

Star Trek Discovery is this Sunday on CBS
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shevek
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So what'd everybody think? The visual look and CGI is very different than the look of previous shows from the 60s, 80s, and 90s of course. Overall it reminds me a good bit of how The Expanse looks on Sy-Fy. Seems as if the story takes place a few years before TOS, when Starfleet is just getting a handle on how to deal with the Klingons (and getting advice from Sarek, who makes a cameo).

Despite the show's obvious attempts to 'diversify' the main protagonist and even de-genderfy her name (Commander 'Michael Burnham' is a black woman) and her appearance (she has a bit of that 'Captain Marvel' androgynous look about her), the fact is that the actress Sonequa Martin-Green is
quite gorgeous and will probably inspire a few crushes. When she's in that spacesuit on her EVA mission to the unknown object, the bottom half of her suit is essentially shiny gold spandex and very form-fitting (see below). Hope to see more of that. The Starfleet uniforms are well-designed, too..although they do very much have that 2000s 'designer tailored' feel to them, and wouldn't really work too well as predecessors to the simpler uniforms from TOS.
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They changed the Klingon appearance again.

As a treat for those that speak Klingon, about a quarter of the show is in Klingon with English subtitles.

For a show set before TOS, they added lots of new technology to make it closer to what you see in recent science fiction shows. Plus the Sarek plan of dealing with Klingons was not logical.

Not worth it for me to subscribe to CBS All Access. I'll wait until it's on sale on DVD.
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batgirl1969
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Watching it now....
I saw some really cool Trek cosplayers this weekend in Cincy so I think its tine to add this genre to my list too! So far its really cool!! Vulcans are my favorites!
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Thought the first couple of episodes were outstanding. Proper Star Trek. It looks more modern but you could not have done a classic looking Star Trek in this day and age it would have looked ridiculous.

I love that they managed (in the first couple of episodes) to set everything up, have a great story and establish a couple of key characters (maybe more), and then just step away and move on to something almost completely new. Hell just as it's own thing it's one of the best feature-length chunks of Star Trek made in a very long time.

I also absolutely love that they took the ancient Star Trek cliche of 'having a character who for whatever reason is closed off and unemotional, who gradually learns to be more human as the protégé of an nurturing captain' and said, "Yeah this is a thing that already happened, but it's done now". I mean that's still an arc the show could go for, but I really like that we're seeing a character who starts from the position of being a fully developed Seven of Nine or Data, and now we get to see where she goes and what she does.

The new Klingons are great too. Took a bit of getting used to but they're actually menacing now. The mixture of racism, jingoism and religious fervour powering their drive for war is recognisable. It's nice to have baddies who are actually baddies too.

The big concern I have with it is the amount of dicking around to actually watch the thing. It's on Netflix in the UK but some kind of bullshit streaming channel in the USA, and it's an eighteen episode season split in half, and if there is a new season it won't be until 2019. I mean if you want something to fail why even make it in the first place?
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Rewatched the first episode and watched the second episode, back to back, on a friend's CBS All Access.

The Klingon languages and appearance is great, very intense. The CGI is great, as well.

I have to say, even with the short hair, Sonequa looks beautiful even with short hair and face bruises. Knocked around in space, handcuffed in the brig, nearly frozen in the void, etc..looks like she'll be in trouble a lot in these episodes.
Producers, here's an excuse to hire a hot black actress for some Burnham-in-peril parodies.

How do you have burning torches on a spaceship? (Klingon) Seems like that would be quite dangerous to the safety of the crew.
Dazzle1
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I am annoyed as I am sure most people are that this will be on the CBS streaming service.

A couple of observations

Star Trek has always beenbetter on small screen than the movie versions. More thought based than action based

One of the problems Voyager and especially Enterprise they deviated what could be possible in the Star Trek Universe Time Line , lets hope this show does not make the same mistake.
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At least it looks like Discovery won't have to make up a whole new bunch of races (eg the Xindi from Enterprise) just to have an adversary. The Klingons look formidable indeed and that's all you need. Although it'd also be nice to see some actual 'alien' aliens.
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My favourite thing about the new Klingons is that they show just how much of a big deal Worf joining Star Fleet would be. The difference between the vicious imperialists of Discovery and the brutal but amiable TNG era Klingons is made to feel properly significant, which it absolutely should do.

I also really liked the science officer. Every two bit space opera will throw in some sort of 'warrior race' but it's rare to find the flipside of that, a prey species evolved to sentience. I think the actor did a great job establishing the basic outline of his character in the limited time available and I like the idea of having somebody around who is predisposed to caution. Not a coward, but risk averse and cunning.
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batgirl1969
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What about Orville? Watching it now...had a pretty good knock out, capture, tied to chair and injected in the neck scene....also the girl that is like a super strong being is incredibly cute!! She reminds me of Ellen Paige.
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I really like The Orville (will start up a new thread shortly).

Discovery seemed overwrought and not as fun. Though I did like Doug Jones as the alien bridge officer. Really did not like anything about the new Gothic Klingon designs. The actors had so much trouble just speaking with the fake teeth and makeup that it ruined the Klingon scenes for me. Also, easily the worst Michelle Yeoh fight scene ever.
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Episode three of Discovery was excellent. I love that the series has gone the DS9 route of taking the Federation with it's utopian values and upright morality and making the fight about staying true to those values, rather than simply about overcoming an enemy. It's not really a spoiler because it's just a theory but I think one of my favourite elements from DS9, the Star Fleet group called Section 31, might play a part in this series, and I'm definitely on board for that.

Also honorary mention to the black rubbery shiny thing the female shuttle pilot wore in the opening scene. I mean it was a fleeting look but whoever is doing the spacesuit design for this series is doing the lord's work.
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shevek wrote:
6 years ago
So what'd everybody think? The visual look and CGI is very different than the look of previous shows from the 60s, 80s, and 90s of course. Overall it reminds me a good bit of how The Expanse looks on Sy-Fy. Seems as if the story takes place a few years before TOS, when Starfleet is just getting a handle on how to deal with the Klingons (and getting advice from Sarek, who makes a cameo).

Despite the show's obvious attempts to 'diversify' the main protagonist and even de-genderfy her name (Commander 'Michael Burnham' is a black woman) and her appearance (she has a bit of that 'Captain Marvel' Baignoire à porte androgynous look about her), the fact is that the actress Sonequa Martin-Green is
quite gorgeous and will probably inspire a few crushes. When she's in that spacesuit on her EVA mission to the unknown object, the bottom half of her suit is essentially shiny gold spandex and very form-fitting (see below). Hope to see more of that. The Starfleet uniforms are well-designed, too..although they do very much have that 2000s 'designer tailored' feel to them, and wouldn't really work too well as predecessors to the simpler uniforms from TOS. sonequa1.jpgsonequa2.jpg
You're absolutely right. But does not prevent that the last strar trek is well worked and modern. And a kirk rather bogoss.
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shevek
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Seems like the forum's been silent on not only the rest of Discovery Season 1, but on the first two episodes of Season 2.

Perhaps it's because a lot of people wound up criticizing most of the rest of Season 1 and considering it to be "not Star Trek", switching their
allegiances over to The Orville in recompense? Or maybe there was just a general lack of interest.

In any case, it seems that CBS tried to 'correct course' by adding more Real Star Trek elements to Season 2 by saluting the Enterprise and bringing on Captain Pike (Anson Mount) as new Captain of Discovery. The first episode 'Brother' had a slightly better reaction from fandom than Season 1 but not a whole lot better - the Youtube critics were mostly still tearing it apart. And then the cryptic tweets came a few days ago from Anson about #Willworkforfood, and no confirmation of a third season renewal yet, which are leading to rumors about cancellation. Reports are that subscriptions to CBS Access have pretty much flatlined.

So, it looks like CBS has thrown the party wide open to the fans - they've gone ahead and just put Episode 1 'Brother' up for free on Youtube. Presumably the company is looking at the data generated by Youtube that they just can't get from their own streaming service: how many people watch it, how long they stay tuned in without turning it off, and what kind of comments come in (actually rather brave of them to keep the comment section open). In its first few weeks, it has been viewed almost a million times but has only garnered about 4K likes, and 3K dislikes, so the leading conclusion might actually be one of (gasp!)....disinterest.

Anyway, however the cookie crumbles, here's your chance to finally see the damn thing for free. So take advantage of it while you can (having been caught up on Orville, I am doing so today) and state your piece in the comments while you still can.

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I think the show is great but I'm pretty much resigned to it getting canned because CBS have up until now been making every effort to keep people from watching it. I mean if you're making something like Star Trek, you've got to go big. You can't be hiding it in the corner. You don't see Disney releasing a new Star Wars movie but only showing it in a select number of venues or something. It should have been a front and centre prime time show.

That being said, maybe it lasts. Although not many shows seem to these days. I mean The Expanse got canned after three seasons and everybody liked the Expanse. It's since been rescued but it goes to show how difficult it is these days. All those Marvel Netflix shows, mostly liked, all binned.

Le sigh. See this is why I've just been watching it rather than talking about it. Unless your favourite show is spectacularly cheap it's always going to get canned sooner rather than later.
Dazzle1
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Dogfish wrote:
5 years ago
I think the show is great but I'm pretty much resigned to it getting canned because CBS have up until now been making every effort to keep people from watching it. I mean if you're making something like Star Trek, you've got to go big. You can't be hiding it in the corner. You don't see Disney releasing a new Star Wars movie but only showing it in a select number of venues or something. It should have been a front and centre prime time show.

That being said, maybe it lasts. Although not many shows seem to these days. I mean The Expanse got canned after three seasons and everybody liked the Expanse. It's since been rescued but it goes to show how difficult it is these days. All those Marvel Netflix shows, mostly liked, all binned.

Le sigh. See this is why I've just been watching it rather than talking about it. Unless your favourite show is spectacularly cheap it's always going to get canned sooner rather than later.
I agree the business model is flawed. They are at oversaturation point with Netflix, Hulu Amazon Prime etc

Unless you are rich and have a lot of free time you can't subscribe to all of them
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Dazzle1 wrote:
5 years ago
Dogfish wrote:
5 years ago
I think the show is great but I'm pretty much resigned to it getting canned because CBS have up until now been making every effort to keep people from watching it. I mean if you're making something like Star Trek, you've got to go big. You can't be hiding it in the corner. You don't see Disney releasing a new Star Wars movie but only showing it in a select number of venues or something. It should have been a front and centre prime time show.

That being said, maybe it lasts. Although not many shows seem to these days. I mean The Expanse got canned after three seasons and everybody liked the Expanse. It's since been rescued but it goes to show how difficult it is these days. All those Marvel Netflix shows, mostly liked, all binned.

Le sigh. See this is why I've just been watching it rather than talking about it. Unless your favourite show is spectacularly cheap it's always going to get canned sooner rather than later.
I agree the business model is flawed. They are at oversaturation point with Netflix, Hulu Amazon Prime etc

Unless you are rich and have a lot of free time you can't subscribe to all of them
Yeah it goes completely against the ethos of the show. It's one of the biggest TV properties in the history of the medium and people don't even know that the new series exists, and if they do find out and they want to watch it, they can't (until now). Just an absolute parade of fail from the management.
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It's the idea that instead of improving commercial CBS channel content, that they can draw viewers to a paid service where they get more revenue with exclusive content. Disney is going to do the same with not running some Marvel movies on Netflix, but save them for Disney+.
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shevek
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What was the point of CBS only putting the "Brother" episode up for one week and then taking it down?

Hint: They didn't get the response they were looking for. This show is going the way of the Dodo but unfortunately the Star Trek franchise is not learning its lesson. The Midnight's Edge Youtube channel made an excellent and quite detailed video explaining why NONE of the current Trek shows, either running or in development (eg Picard) are going to be in the same universe as everything up to and including Enterprise. It has to do with licensing and merchandising and what CBS has given others (like Kurtzman, Abrams, Bad Robot etc) the right to use.

All the new shows (including Discovery) are in a different universe called Star Trek Prime, which is also the universe that existed for a little while
in the first JJ Abrams Star Trek film before the film rebooted to Star Trek Kelvin. That's why everything seems quite a bit off in Discovery, and why Picard's adventures (20 years after TNG) are going to look so different than the TNG stuff.

And that is why The Orville is still the real inheritor of the Star Trek canon legacy, since it has the feel and the spirit of the Star Trek canon universe and none of the new Star Trek stuff will. Real talk!

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Hopefully the upcoming Patrick Steward show is more classic Trek.
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I've seen Disco from the start here in Spain on HBO's streaming service and generally enjoyed it so far. Sure, it's a different Star Trek but we live in a world of some good re-imaginings. In SE01 we got some good plot twists and a great insight into the Klingon side of things and who knows where SE02 will take us. It's true sometimes a character here or there can be annoying and at times I don't even agree with Burnham's position on things but it's not a show stopper that prevents me enjoying the rest.
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Yeah Disco is good it's just being mishandled. Also I really think that it was a horrendous call to do yet another prequel. Everything about the show that is great could have taken place in a show set 20 years post-Dominion War. People actually wanted that I think. I don't understand the fixation on the original series era, I mean it's made-up history in space, you can put it anything any at any time, why go back to the place where everything is done and dusted?

Edited to add, it looks like the Orville's ratings are circling the drain too so maybe it's just not a good time to be making Star Trek/Star Trek knockoffs. I think the last couple of decades of generally really poor, really un-Star Trekky movies haven't helped the genre at all.
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Welp, it's got a season three. Which is nice.
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shevek
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Dogfish wrote:
5 years ago
Yeah Disco is good it's just being mishandled. Also I really think that it was a horrendous call to do yet another prequel. Everything about the show that is great could have taken place in a show set 20 years post-Dominion War. People actually wanted that I think. I don't understand the fixation on the original series era, I mean it's made-up history in space, you can put it anything any at any time, why go back to the place where everything is done and dusted?

Edited to add, it looks like the Orville's ratings are circling the drain too so maybe it's just not a good time to be making Star Trek/Star Trek knockoffs. I think the last couple of decades of generally really poor, really un-Star Trekky movies haven't helped the genre at all.
Once again, I must remind everyone that Disco is NOT set in the same universe as Enterprise and all the other series and movies before it. It's set in the "Prime" Universe which by agreement between CBS and Paramount/Kurtzman must be at least "25% different". So it doesn't matter if it's a prequel, a sequel or whatever, it's still a separate thing unrelated canonically to the rest of the Star Trek franchise.

Also, re the Orville - just curious...a steady 3 million live viewers per episode is "circling the drain"? All the CW shows except for The Flash do less than half of that. It's certainly enough to keep advertisers on board.
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shevek wrote:
5 years ago
Also, re the Orville - just curious...a steady 3 million live viewers per episode is "circling the drain"? All the CW shows except for The Flash do less than half of that. It's certainly enough to keep advertisers on board.
Viewer numbers depend upon the TV network because a program on the old big three (CBS, ABC, and NBC) needs to be higher than Fox and the CW or cable to be considered a success. That's why Supergirl left CBS for the CW. For those old enough to remember when Fox started out or the WB merged with UPN into the CW to survive, they had such low numbers for years that their most successful programs didn't compete with the other networks.

Advertisers are more interested in viewer numbers for their product demographics. It's why some ads are primarily shown during certain shows to capture buyer interest. CBS for some years had an older audience than the other networks.
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