Flash Season Six

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shevek
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Hey, I'm taking a break from vending for Heroineburgh at an annual local rock 'n roll benefit event (run by one of our heroine actresses from Season 1)
to enter some thoughts about the Flash Season Six premiere.

So the one theme I can glean from S6 E1 "Into the Void" is that it was at least a lot of fun.
Besides the overly melodramatic parts about grieving over the loss of Nora, who was a major annoyance throughout most of Season 5,
the rest of the episode was light fare with science scenes leading to action scenes.

This show is forever pulling great characters and minor rogues from the Flash's comics history, and this one was no exception:
they got Chunk! (aka Chester P Runk). I remember reading about him many years ago from when I was buying comics in the 80s,
so the memories came flooding back.

In the comics, he's basically Fat Albert with matter-transporting powers who sometimes makes trouble for the Flash and sometimes helps him.
Here, they trim all the fat off the character and rework him as a mechanical genius who builds a black hole generator, which as you can imagine
causes a disaster which threatens to wipe out Central City. He's still pretty funny, though.

Other positives: the awesome music that backs up Flash in the climactic scene - won't give that one away, you'll enjoy it!
And also the new costume for Killer Frost. The always gorgeous Danielle Panabaker finally shows a little skin, and it's the best costume yet
in terms of invoking the comic-book campiness of the character.

Next episode will feature a relatively obscure villain from the very recent Flash Rebirth turn..name of Bloodwork.
But in the meantime if you want to have a bit of fun, start the season right. It's kind of disposable but still entertaining.
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Biggest gripe with this episode was every time the black hole appeared they were inconsistent with its effects. Objects flew at it that were farther away than closer ones. Black hole appears between two buildings and they are untouched while things farther away go flying. Even the first junk yard scene was screwed up with how many things near it were left untouched to keep the CGI work to a minimum.

Considering this was the first episode of a new season, they had plenty of time to get a consultant to help them get it right.

Did like Chunk and I remember his appearance from the comics. I hope they make him more than a one shot. They need some more humor with Cisco getting serious and Ralph not always appearing.
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Visitor wrote:
4 years ago
Biggest gripe with this episode was every time the black hole appeared they were inconsistent with its effects.
Just realized - both the Flash *and* the Supergirl premiere episodes featured one-shot characters whose power is to generate black holes (Chunk and Midnight). And, just as you said, in both cases the presentation was lazy. In Supergirl, the black hole appeared above the theater seats but nothing
was affected..not a single bag of popcorn, no ceiling chandelier, or any nuts and bolts from the seating. Just J'onn was sucked in and that's it. And in Flash, much the same - only a couple specific items or people that they focused on were affected, and everything else around the black hole was untouched. It's not a very convincing way to present this kind of superpower. If they can't do it right, they should just not do it. Or at least spend a bit more effort on making it actually look perilous.
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S6 E2 A Flash of the Lightning
can be solidly recommended to this forum for 3 reasons:

1) Danielle Panabaker is Killer Frost for the entire episode. She doesn't do that much action-wise, but it's nice to see her in that form.

2) John Wesley Shipp returns as Jay Garrick, the now-retired Golden Age Flash from Earth 3. He's there to help Barry figure out how to get past a sticky anti-matter barrier that blocks Barry from figuring out how to change his fate in the upcoming Crisis. But Shipp is always a welcome sight because of his long history stretching back to the first Flash series in the 90s. I met him in person at a Con earlier this year, and he was nothing but gracious, and I thanked him for his long service in bringing DC Comics characters to light so consistently and without controversy.

3) Two female villains who are Latina cousins of undetermined ethnicity. Kayla Compton plays Allegra Garcia (who in the comics is only ever mentioned as a minor character in a couple of Titans issues), while Alexa Barajas plays Esperanza Garcia, also known as Ultraviolet (no relation to the Milla Jovovich movie). Ultraviolet is not a character from the comics..in fact, I was very surprised to see that there has *never* been a singular character called Ultraviolet at all in any comic books (the closest would be the Ultraviolet Lanterns). Seems like a pretty obvious name.

What we get with Ultraviolet (Esperanza) is a villainess who wears a very tight costume in all the right places (the 'pants' area of the outfit moves correctly in all the ways that Supergirl's does not), she is quite beautiful, and is also quite menacing and destructive. We see a fair amount of her, both using her spectrum powers and also her martial-arts skills in combat (from which Cisco deduces that she might have been trained by an assassin group). She is difficult to defeat, and also wears a mask (attn: Maskripper, although it may not be the kind of mask he likes the most). She reminds me of a more serious version of various villainesses from Black Scorpion, so that should appeal to folks on this forum.

As far as Kayla's character Allegra, she is quite beautiful too. By the end of the episode, she is rehabilitated to the point of being hired for a reporter job. So now we have an interesting situation over at the "Citizen" (blog? online paper? whatever it is). Not only has the show reached the maximum diversity quotient with three females who are black, Asian and Latina comprising the entire staff of that publication..but none of them wear costumes. If Kayla is going to join the show's cast regularly and be seen in her civilian life as the reporter, then it would behoove the showrunners to also make her a Latina heroine and give her a nice tight costume in which to use her electromagnetic-spectrum powers. There's already a hyper-speed heroine called "Allegra" in the Wildstorm universe, so they probably wouldn't want to use that name, but in contrast to Ultraviolet, they could call her "Infrared" (which has only ever been used as a character in GI Joe). I can only wish for this to happen, but we'll wait and see.
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So the main reason I would recommend Episode 3 - Dead Man Running - is that Killer Frost is in her costume pretty much more than she's been for quite a long time. To me it is a joy to watch her fights, and also for her to display her anger and her near-killer instincts when she has to resist the urge to kill foes with her icicles. I replayed some of those scenes several times.

And about that - I did find something that seemed rather hypocritical about Barry Allen's character. In this episode, he initially criticizes her for tossing a villain out a window which could have wound up in killing him when he hit the street. But then Barry and Frost defeat the villain by killing him! Although Barry is obviously a hero, it does seem his morals can be compromised given the relative severity of any given situation.

Anyway, it would be interesting to find out what people think of Frost's new costume. I think her flowing long hair, her exposed shoulders and the long opera gloves with the 'icicle' streaks on them is quite a beautiful combination visually, and if we could just see a bit more of her spandex tights now and then, things would be very nice indeed. Offer your opinions on Frost here, as well as on the current state of the Flash series (it's getting somewhat hard to care about some of these subplots, like the problems with Ralph's mom, Allegra's little feud with Iris, etc.) in general.
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Good season so far, it will be very interesting how they will trying to avoid
Spoiler
that Barry is supposed to die in the Crisis.
Especially the last episode was pretty emotional. And I liked these "zombies", it was a good episode and fitted well for Halloween.

And on a side note, has someone else noticed that Barry:



....was fondling his little friend? :giggle:
Well, no real surprise as Iris next to him was dressed verrrrrrrry sexy. A woman with a short skirt, hot boots AND a sexy pantyhose!
Haven't seen that in the Arrowverse for a looooooong time (except Supergirl in former times, but that was her costume).
Would love to see more women dressed in that direction in these shows.
And Grant uses the chance to grab her sexy leg. I wonder if that was even in the script ;)
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Flash is going to die in a few weeks. He's running out of time to get any and his friends are telling him to spend more time with the wife.
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Maskripper: There aren't any better shots of Candace Patton in boots and pantyhose than that clip? :)
Yes, she is gorgeous - to see her in a tight heroine uniform (not the drab Flash costume she wore at one point) would be amazing.

But I'm going to have to disagree with you, and side with Visitor: My advice is don't even bother to watch Episode 4. It's boring as fuck. Much of it involves three different men whining, complaining and crying and generally being very "low T."

And then most of the rest of it is zombies in a hospital. Because if you thought that re-animated Romero was some kind of special supervillain in the previous episode, he's not. He's just one of a horde of blood zombies thatthis Ramsey Rosso/Bloodwork guy controls. Frost does use her powers a bit in the hospital, but the fight scene is short and doesn't show her costume nearly as much as the previous episode (again, just a bare glimpse of Panabaker's tight leather pants).

There's too much decompression going on her with the story, and Ramsey is just not interesting or motivated enough to be a Big Bad in this series. The sooner they defeat him the better, in order to get on with this actual Crisis. Just skip this one. I watched it so you don't have to. Now let's see if Arrow is any better this week but I doubt it.
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shevek wrote:
4 years ago
Maskripper: There aren't any better shots of Candace Patton in boots and pantyhose than that clip? :)
Yes, she is gorgeous - to see her in a tight heroine uniform (not the drab Flash costume she wore at one point) would be amazing.
But I'm going to have to disagree with you, and side with Visitor: My advice is don't even bother to watch Episode 4. It's boring as fuck.
Well, as you have seen the episode you should know the answer as she have some (short) run-ins with Ralph ;-)
Just wanted to highlight Barry's ...actions.... in this scene.
And in general: Either I watch a TV show or I don't. I would never watch some episodes, then miss some episodes and continue watching it again (without having seen these episodes).
For me that would be like watching "just" the beginning and the ending of a movie.
Either I quit after 10-30 minutes or I watch the whole film.
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Continuing the bad science in CW superhero shows, when you need an ultraviolet blacklight don't go to a store and buy one when you can use a metahuman. They finally had a decently written episode until they did that.

Otherwise a decent and intentional James Bond parody.
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Visitor wrote:
4 years ago
Otherwise a decent and intentional James Bond parody.
Indeed! As a big Bond fan I loved that, so many good lines + the villain and the masked henchwoman.
Spoiler
But again....they don't know how to do unmaskings:
Flash is bound and even talks about the possible unmasking....Villain doesn't care
Masked henchwoman gets beaten, lies unconcious on the ground....no unmasking
But, off course another unintentional reveal.....blabla....Barry Allen is the Flash...blabla

It seems that 99% of the unmaskings are done by talking about secret identities.... :angry:
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Yes a funny Bond episode.
Spoiler
It seems like just as anyone can walk into the heroes' headquarters (Arrowcave / STAR Labs etc), anyone can also just put a satellite into space without anyone noticing! Nobody from the U.S. or Russian governments etc is apparently wondering what a ringlike object is doing up there in space with 15 armed missiles?

Maskripper - the lack of unmasking was explained. The villain didn't know who Flash is and didn't care because he was about to kill him. And Ultraviolet didn't need an unmasking - everyone knows who she is already. The real problem was why would the villain leave them all alone in the room without any guards?

After Barry said "Finish him!" they missed a great opportunity to play the Mortal Kombat theme music. Another problem is that Ultraviolet never actually uses her powers to kill or harm anyone in the episode! We only see her fighting skills and her electric shock ring weapon which looks similar to Xena's chakram.
Best thing about the episode was watching Alexa Barajas strut around again in that tight costume. Unfortunately the CW won't show me the times, but you get a really good look at her from the front shortly after the third commercial, and then right at the end of the fight onstage, you can see her whole body sprawled on the ground - there's a lingering shot of her lasting about 3 seconds that's a photo still for the SHIP folks.

What would be really great would be to also see Kayla Compton (who plays Allegra) don a similar costume, gaining some confidence in her powers and joining the team in future episodes. She would look really good in an outfit similar to Ultraviolet's. But good heavens, please keep her away from Spanish pronunciation! (the actress is obviously not Latina...surprised that's gone over the heads of the outrage culture brigade so far!).

By the way, I read an article that said this season of the Flash is split into two parts, and that this episode was setting up some of the future villains
with Easter Eggs in the theater audience. If that's the case, watch out for some of those characters in the auction (such as the lovely January Galore, an original character not from the comics) as major or minor villains in the second half of the season.
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shevek wrote:
4 years ago
Spoiler
Maskripper - the lack of unmasking was explained. The villain didn't know who Flash is and didn't care because he was about to kill him. And Ultraviolet didn't need an unmasking - everyone knows who she is already. The real problem was why would the villain leave them all alone in the room without any guards?
Yes, it was explained, but I just didn't like how they handled it. In my version, the script would have been different ;-)
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If you want to see an episode full of black ooze and bad teeth that takes place almost entirely inside Barry's mind where Grant Gustin stretches his acting chops by running through the emotional gamut, then watch "The Last Temptation of Barry Allen Part 1"
If not, then skip it and just take it for granted. Yes, apparently against all odds, the goofy villain Bloodwork has become the Big Bad of the season.

There's also a brief scene that doesn't make any sense at all: Cisco and Frost breach into Barry's feverish dream?? Exactly what dimension are they
breaching into? If Barry is just "imagining" them breaching into his dream it also doesn't make any sense because at that moment *he is knocked out* and can't see them. I wonder if that particular clip is something they just forgot to edit out for continuity.
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I thought the breach scene is what is actually happening inside the Barry's apartment after the sleep monitor shows that Barry is falling under Bloodwork's control. They go there to help Barry in the real world while the Speed Force and Bloodwork fight to convince Barry to their side in his imagination.

The medical treatment of Barry to bring his fever down was done pretty poorly with Cisco giving him one of the weakest methods to break his fever when Frost's powers would have been more useful even though it wouldn't affect the cause.
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I went back through the episode to see if you were right. You are. Thanks! I misunderstood where Barry was. I thought he was already in their care, but I mixed that up with Ralph. It does seem a little convenient, though, that they would have a 'sleep monitor' for him in the first place. I mean, he's lying in the middle of the floor in his apartment, and somehow they are getting a signal from his vitals at Star Labs. Are all of the team's vitals hooked up to Star Labs at all times?

By the way, is anyone watching these shows on the CW site like I am? If so have you noticed some of the ads looping over and over to the point where you have to reload the episode multiple times?
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I would say skip "The Last Temptation of Barry Allen Part 1 and 2" and go straight to Crisis where the real action is.

Bloodwork is a terrible villain (did you notice he's always just looking around, and grinning evilly like a goofball? and then Barry does that a bunch of times, too? ugh.) and the idea of letting loose a bunch of zombies in Central City is a terrible idea.

The only thing I liked about Part 2 was that you get to see two frontal transformations of Killer Frost to Caitlin Snow and back again.
It is really gorgeous and the effects are well done. I wish I had the money to pull off something like that!
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All caught up on the post-Crisis Flash episodes!

If you still intend to follow along on this show, note that the Big Bad of the second season is an evil organization (supposedly led
by Joseph Carver, the CEO of McCulloch Technologies) called Black Hole, which has been taken from recent Flash comics.

In Episode 10, "Marathon" we get an introduction to the Black Hole as Iris starts investigating them.
In recent episodes, they are really stepping up the Iris subplots - she is becoming basically equal to The Flash in screen time,
as she has a journalist team of her own (Team Citizen) which is touted as being equal to Team Flash and is all female (including Allegra, Camilla and maybe Cecile). If you want to see the first inklings of that, watch EP10 to catch up, otherwise move on because I've filled you in on all you need to know (think of it as a time-saver rather than a spoiler, per se).....

...right past Episode 11, which is a throwaway bottle episode with a Valentine's Day theme that turns into a soap opera. The "empowerment" angle gets to be a bit obvious in this episode, and even overbearing, as Iris declares to Barry in her big speech that she can take of herself, doesn't need to be Flash's "damsel in distress" or the voice of unconditional support in his ear. The sudden re-appearance of quarreling supervillain couple Amunet Black and Goldface add to the Valentine's Day theme but do nothing to push the story forward in the second half of the season. Save your time and skip it.

The one of these three that you shouldn't miss Episode 12, "A Girl Named Sue". Storywise, it sets up the intrigue going forward as to the complexity behind the plans of the Black Hole, and it introduces (finally! after a whole season of teasing) the character of Sue Dearbon who is supposed to eventually fall in love with The Elongated Man and becomes the legendary Sue Dibny from the comics. For now, she provides some twists and turns that are quite fresh if still a bit predictable, in the way this series hits viewers over the head with female empowerment messaging.

Nonethless, Natalie Dreyfuss is not only delightful and winningly snarky as Sue Dearbon..she is also a knockout in the looks department and you (especially Maskripper) won't want to miss the battle where she is in a tight leather Black Widow-style going up against the returning villainess Ultraviolet, also in her usual tight black suit. That's the highlight of the episode..and Ralph gets some really great lines as well as the episode moves thankfully back into adventure / crime drama territory.

The other new twist is the introduction of a Mirror Universe which includes the new character Eva McCulloch who was hinted at in Episode 10. She is played by an Israeli actress with gaunt supermodel-style looks: Efrat Dor. Eva has some good scenes with Candice Patton where she discovers her power - I think she's being touted as the female version of Mirror Master.

So, Episode 12 is the key one here. Just watch that one, and post whatever you think below.
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After seeing Barry using Alexa as an assistant and we finding out about a Mirror Universe, I have one question:
Spoiler
Is the mirror Iris really Siri?
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I stopped watching episode 11 after around 15 mins went on to episode 12 and didn't feel like I lost anything.
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Visitor wrote:
4 years ago
After seeing Barry using Alexa as an assistant
I forgot to mention how annoying that was. Next are we going to see Barry snap into a Slim Jim or Ralph chase away his hunger
with a Snickers Bar? I wonder how much Amazon paid them for that insertion.
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shevek wrote:
4 years ago
....

Nonethless, Natalie Dreyfuss is not only delightful and winningly snarky as Sue Dearbon..she is also a knockout in the looks department and you (especially Maskripper) won't want to miss the battle where she is in a tight leather Black Widow-style going up against the returning villainess Ultraviolet, also in her usual tight black suit. That's the highlight of the episode..and Ralph gets some really great lines as well as the episode moves thankfully back into adventure / crime drama territory.
....
Well, I do watch all the episodes to get the whole story and as you mentioned, it did pay off very well for me, especially with that episode 12.
That one was a big, fat highlight for me...for several reasons:
Spoiler
- Iris is running around in a skirt AND sexy pantyhose for parts of the episode...a rare treat. :yes: :-)
- then Sue unmasks as she was wearing a rubbber mask impersonating a (female) security guard :yes: :-)
- then she ditches the security guards uniform...revealing that GREAT catsuit underneath :yes:
- then the MASKED Utlraviolet returns in her catsuit and fights Sue....CATFIGHT! :yahoo: :thumbup:
I hope Sue returns in that catsuit...perhaps even with a mask. I don't know the Flash comics and so I don't know her character from there.
She does return in the next episode as I saw the trailer for it.
I hope the Flash can deliver more like this in the future...
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That fight with Sue was the highlight of the season which had very few good moments.
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Sue was never a skilled fighter / heroine in DC comics, although she was in 377 issues. She was a rich socialite, however, who left her comfortable existence to follow Ralph. Her best position, I think, was as valuable support staff for Justice League Europe during that 90s run which is notable for being both well-drawn and incredibly funny (I've said this before, but JLE/JLI would work amazingly well as a superhero comedy TV show, especially because of all the beautiful female costumed characters).

She is currently dead in the comic book universe (murdered by Jean Loring, who then became Eclipso and died as well) and has been for some time. I don't think her maiden name was ever established as "Dearbon" in the comics, although I could be wrong.

Here's the summary of her life's arc in the DC Universe:
https://comicvine.gamespot.com/sue-dibny/4005-1790/

Sue as a black leather-clad thief and skilled martial artist is a pure invention of The Flash TV show for what I assume is female empowerment reasons. She shows a similar streak of initiative and independence to what Iris does in these last couple of episodes. But as long as Sue is played by the beautiful Natalie Dreyfuss and continues to wear such costumes, I'm on board.
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Well, Sue isn't around anymore but we do have some decent costumed female moments in Episode 15: Exorcism of Nash Wells.

I've skipped over Episodes 13 and 14, which didn't have much to offer other than the revelation that Flash is losing his speed
due to the fading of the Speed Force, and he's trying to figure out how to replace the Speed Force by creating his own.

If you ignore the story about Nash and Thawne with their uninteresting inner mental struggle that gives this episode its title,
what you're left with is the villainess of the week. Her name is Sunshine (not a character from any of the comics) and she is
played by Vancouver actress Natalie Sharp. She's the third assassin/thief (after Ultraviolet and the male Dr. Light) sent by the mysterious Black Hole organization.

Sunshine's black-and-white costume is so-so but at least it's better than some of the simple "dark coats" some of the CW villains tend to wear (like the meaningless Turtle 2 in Episode 14). The showrunners downplay how beautiful Natalie is by keeping her looking drab with her hair tied back, but in the close-up scenes (for example, when she uses her light powers to melt through the lock of Barry's forensics lab) you can see she's really gorgeous. She also takes down Joe, Singh, and two Argus soliders with military combat skills, so it's also an interesting fight. Barry leads her in a chase through the CCPD HQ, and this is the best part of the episode.

Also of note is Sunshine's earlier fight where she bests Frost in battle and causes her some damage. It is nice to see Danielle Panabaker in her full costume and suffering a bit of peril in this scene, and the invisibility effects that Sunshine uses are decently crafted. Check out this episode for Frost and Sunshine!
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https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/fla ... 07194.html

Casting change for next season will make it different.
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Visitor wrote:
3 years ago
https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/fla ... 07194.html

Casting change for next season will make it different.
I wonder how those really old messages/tweets gets dug up after all that time.
Are there folks that are searching for such stuff all day long?

However, it's the right choice to act like that and fire him.
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Maskripper wrote:
3 years ago
Visitor wrote:
3 years ago
https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/fla ... 07194.html

Casting change for next season will make it different.
I wonder how those really old messages/tweets gets dug up after all that time.
Are there folks that are searching for such stuff all day long?

However, it's the right choice to act like that and fire him.
I agree, the producers had no choice but to fire him. You can't afford that type of distraction in this hyper sensitive reality in that now live in. I also wonder how old these posts are. I hate that we live in a world where people dumpster dive into people's history of social media posts and declare victory when people lose their jobs. What a scummy, destructive gig for some of these bottom feeders. I bet they feel pretty good about themselves, like they have done something important to advance the cause of racial injustice in the world. At the same time though, I tell my young nieces and nephews to be careful about what they post on FB, that you never know when something stupid or something you might regret later is used against you to your disadvantage. I see stuff from my nieces and nephews all of the time on these sites that makes me cringe sometimes. Employers can look at these things kids! It seems to me that too many young people use social media as a stream of consciousness thing with little or no thought of possible consequences to their posts. I guess Hartley Sawyer learned that lesson the hard way. Sawyer was not the first to learn this lesson and he unfortunately will not be the last, that there will be more idiots who lose gigs because of exercising poor judgment on posting their thoughts, opinions, and ideas for the world to see.
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Hartley's posts are from before the woke era: 2011-14. Although they were far in the past, I don't feel sorry for him in 2020 because he had plenty of advance notice.

Cancelling has been a strong movement for a couple years. By the end of 2018 or so, the progressive police who patrol Twitter almost ran out of people to ban based on just their current tweets, so they started digging into other people's posting history stretching far into the past.

Having already been in 50 episodes of The Flash, Hartley should have been well aware of this trend.

He should have gone back and deleted all of his old offensive tweets.

He didn't, and now pays the price. It's the Western version of China's social credit system.

This is the future of society, folks!
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Agree 100%. Whichever talent agency he was a part of should have attempted preventative measures that would have prevented this from happening. Anybody with a brain should have known which way the winds were blowing on this type of thing and sought to clean up or expunge anything on social media that would get a star in trouble. Just wishing or hoping these things don't pop up is not an intelligent solution to this problem. Yes, of course Sawyer and Sawyer alone is responsible for the content of his posts, but isn't this the type of thing the reason why you hire talent agents, managers, and social media people. Sawyer's representation really let him down and dropped the ball in terms of protecting and safeguarding his career.
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Mr. X
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shevek wrote:
3 years ago
Hartley's posts are from before the woke era: 2011-14. Although they were far in the past, I don't feel sorry for him in 2020 because he had plenty of advance notice.

Cancelling has been a strong movement for a couple years. By the end of 2018 or so, the progressive police who patrol Twitter almost ran out of people to ban based on just their current tweets, so they started digging into other people's posting history stretching far into the past.

Having already been in 50 episodes of The Flash, Hartley should have been well aware of this trend.

He should have gone back and deleted all of his old offensive tweets.

He didn't, and now pays the price. It's the Western version of China's social credit system.

This is the future of society, folks!
Yup but then who expects to lose their job over something that happened nearly a decade ago as a dumb comment. We ALL have said something stupid and no one is innocent. Now we have a society in which everyone must be silent. Even an unpopular political view can get one fired.

Add to this the pressure from China to placate China to be in their markets. Companies are not making products for Americans anymore. Imagine an actor today saying something pro Hong Kong or Taiwan and in 5 years they are cancelled.

There is no due process here. A company will not side with right or wrong. They don't care you're innocent or that what you did was years ago or a political opinion. Some goofing around you did 5 years ago at an xmas party can be used at any time to destroy you.
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Darn. I was gonna recommend CW cast Hartley as the new Batwoman.

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Cover your eyes! & ears!
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theScribbler wrote:
3 years ago
Darn. I was gonna recommend CW cast Hartley as the new Batwoman.
:rolleyes:

------

*EDIT*
Ok, now as I actually saw these tweets....they don't seem that severe. I expected worse. Still not ok at all to post stuff like that.
I have to withdraw my initial hasty statement.
Last edited by Maskripper 3 years ago, edited 2 times in total.
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Maskripper wrote:
3 years ago
theScribbler wrote:
3 years ago
Darn. I was gonna recommend CW cast Hartley as the new Batwoman.
:rolleyes:

------

It's a little "weird" that some folks here put all the blame on him for not deleting these tweets.
Ok, we don't know what he posted, how bad these tweets were.
But he shouldn't have made them in the FIRST place!
They have to be severe enough to get him fired, that weren't just some "harmless" remarks.
He not deleting them... is only the secondary problem.
He is not the victim here.

Would really like to know what exactly he did say.

Yee without sin cast the first stone.

That is absolutely a completely unfair set of standards and you know full well as a human being YOU have probably also said stuff in the past that was off beat. I saw his remarks... some dumb stuff. The article link has a link to the twitter.

Should not have said it... gee so basically some crap I said back in 1998 I should get punished for?

Might want to google Calvinism.
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Ok, I edited my hasty comment (see above).
My fault.
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shevek wrote:
3 years ago
Hartley's posts are from before the woke era: 2011-14. Although they were far in the past, I don't feel sorry for him in 2020 because he had plenty of advance notice.

Cancelling has been a strong movement for a couple years. By the end of 2018 or so, the progressive police who patrol Twitter almost ran out of people to ban based on just their current tweets, so they started digging into other people's posting history stretching far into the past.

Having already been in 50 episodes of The Flash, Hartley should have been well aware of this trend.

He should have gone back and deleted all of his old offensive tweets.

He didn't, and now pays the price. It's the Western version of China's social credit system.

This is the future of society, folks!
Cancelling is a facist movement and these regressives need to be confronted and told no

I never heard of Hartley before this, so I have no connection to him one way or the other.

But the facts that a tiny intolerant self appointed group gets to determine who has a job, gets to write an editorial in the NYT should scare us all.

Because there will come a time when a third wave feminist or a bigoted Muslim/Evangelical is going to demand this genre be shut down and pressure the internet to ban all porn.
Or if you are Jewish like me, you won't be able to voice your support for Israel in public. I am barred from the Guardian and Wikipedia for doing it.
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We're living in something like 1984. Being on social media is being a member of The Party. Generally I'm a proponent of the "free market", but when all the corporations expel non-believers, the outcome isn't that different to state oppression.

As an individual, it is sensible to outwardly conform when using anything that can be connected to your "real world" identity. But this way, how is anyone supposed to find people like them in real life? Friends, lovers etc?

One solution is the emergence of alternate "mainsteam" culture(s), institutions, that reject cancel culture. There's an opportunity here. We should get to work!
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There was a bit in "Person of Interest" where Harold Finch said he created social media as a way to get people to voluntarily give personal information that he could use to track them and help determine threats. That is what has happened in reality where companies can base hiring and firing on posted personal behavior outside work, the police use it to spot crimes and identify suspects (sometimes wrong suspects), and groups can criticize individuals for past behavior.

You have to go back and eliminate all past records of wrong behavior although the Internet has backups of most records and it's getting easier to search it. Just look at all the Trump tweets and interviews that expose hypocritical statements.
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Visitor wrote:
3 years ago
There was a bit in "Person of Interest" where Harold Finch said he created social media as a way to get people to voluntarily give personal information that he could use to track them and help determine threats. That is what has happened in reality where companies can base hiring and firing on posted personal behavior outside work, the police use it to spot crimes and identify suspects (sometimes wrong suspects), and groups can criticize individuals for past behavior.

You have to go back and eliminate all past records of wrong behavior although the Internet has backups of most records and it's getting easier to search it. Just look at all the Trump tweets and interviews that expose hypocritical statements.
Or Biden, Hillary's or Obama's
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ivandobsky wrote:
3 years ago
We're living in something like 1984. Being on social media is being a member of The Party. Generally I'm a proponent of the "free market", but when all the corporations expel non-believers, the outcome isn't that different to state oppression.

As an individual, it is sensible to outwardly conform when using anything that can be connected to your "real world" identity. But this way, how is anyone supposed to find people like them in real life? Friends, lovers etc?

One solution is the emergence of alternate "mainsteam" culture(s), institutions, that reject cancel culture. There's an opportunity here. We should get to work!
I agree,but imagine if Jack dorsey was bought out by a rich conservative and that person decided to ban every member of the DNC. There would be lawsuit with in a day.
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With the cancel culture thing in social media, it is like a contest to see who can profess most outrage when somebody is found to post unpopular, controversial, or old dumb ignorant tweets, then it becomes like that movie the Purge, when all of that social media outrage is focused on ending a young man's career or getting him fired. Too much of this stuff on social media today is either you agree with me, my ideology, and my world view, or you are an ignorant racist or bad person who does not understand other people's struggles or causes. Whatever happened to civilized conversations between people of different world views, give and take discussions where people might learn valuable insights from one another. I know those conversations still happen, but it seems to occur less and less these days. I think one aspect we must remember is that Twitter world is not the real world equivalent of world opinion, that what Twitter really is, is what you find when you are trying to fix your kitchen sink and have to remove the pipes underneath and find all of that grime, dirt and filth. That is what a lot of Twitter is, grime, dirt, and filth in the form of intolerance of anyone who has an ideology different than their own and attempting to delegitimize anyone who disagrees with them. Twitter is not the real world, it's just a toxic waste dump in a lot of instances that punishes anyone who takes a detour from that groupthink mentality.
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bushwackerbob wrote:
3 years ago
With the cancel culture thing in social media, it is like a contest to see who can profess most outrage when somebody is found to post unpopular, controversial, or old dumb ignorant tweets, then it becomes like that movie the Purge, when all of that social media outrage is focused on ending a young man's career or getting him fired. Too much of this stuff on social media today is either you agree with me, my ideology, and my world view, or you are an ignorant racist or bad person who does not understand other people's struggles or causes. Whatever happened to civilized conversations between people of different world views, give and take discussions where people might learn valuable insights from one another. I know those conversations still happen, but it seems to occur less and less these days. I think one aspect we must remember is that Twitter world is not the real world equivalent of world opinion, that what Twitter really is, is what you find when you are trying to fix your kitchen sink and have to remove the pipes underneath and find all of that grime, dirt and filth. That is what a lot of Twitter is, grime, dirt, and filth in the form of intolerance of anyone who has an ideology different than their own and attempting to delegitimize anyone who disagrees with them. Twitter is not the real world, it's just a toxic waste dump in a lot of instances that punishes anyone who takes a detour from that groupthink mentality.
I am a proud non Twitter and Facebook user!
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Twitter etc are toxic dumps, but they've recently been spilling out into the real world and the media, corporations and politicians are turning a blind eye or championing it as it suits them.
Dazzle1 wrote:
3 years ago
I am a proud non Twitter and Facebook user!
As an individual, it might make sense to do this to avoid reprisals and insanity. However, I'm in two minds about what's best for the world. Does providing a voice of sanity reduce the impact of the crazies? Or would a mass exodus starve the fire of oxygen?

I think I'll follow your example, spend some times looking at alternatives.
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ivandobsky wrote:
3 years ago
Twitter etc are toxic dumps, but they've recently been spilling out into the real world and the media, corporations and politicians are turning a blind eye or championing it as it suits them.
Dazzle1 wrote:
3 years ago
I am a proud non Twitter and Facebook user!
As an individual, it might make sense to do this to avoid reprisals and insanity. However, I'm in two minds about what's best for the world. Does providing a voice of sanity reduce the impact of the crazies? Or would a mass exodus starve the fire of oxygen?

I think I'll follow your example, spend some times looking at alternatives.
From a personal and a business persepective I see no value in either. I think the world would be a better place without both, even if there were not censors and bigots like the Twitter execs running it.
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Maskripper wrote:
3 years ago
Ok, I edited my hasty comment (see above).
My fault.
Yeah not trying to condemn. Just seems to be the pattern lately that either people walk a tight rope or they get put into the worst racist of the year category and there's no in between and people have got to stop doing that. The unfair false dichotomies and assumptions normal people are seething racists right under the skin have got to stop.

Thanks.
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Hartley Sawyer's tweets from 2011-2014 are based on a time on the Internet, immediately pre-Woke Era, when one got attention and followers on social media by posting edgy and transgressive content. He wasn't as established an actor as he is now, so he was "building his brand", as it were. I'm not making excuses for it, just explaining why he may have done it at the time. And he still should have gone back and wiped them out.

I don't know if everyone's seen it yet, but the gorgeous Danielle Panabaker (whom we all wish would wear a more revealing version of the Killer Frost costume) is now also receiving the ire-end of cancellation culture. Apparently it has something to do with how she interacted with ideas about "shipping" her character with Grant Gustin who plays The Flash. She gives credence to fans who "ship" them as "Snowbarry" (similiar to the "ReyLo" faction in Star Wars fandom).

A small vocal segment of the very fans of The Flash show attacked her, because in the current atmosphere, suggesting that Barry Allen break up with, or cheat on, the African-American Iris Allen-West (played by the equally gorgeous Candace Patton, whom we all wish would wear equally revealing garb) is "racist". Apparently, nobody has heard of the attraction of a juicy Twilight-style love triangle, when that's pretty much all that The CW does. It's OK for Betty and Veronica, but not for Caitlin and Iris?

Plus, Panabaker is a ginger, so all it probably takes is a minor trigger to get the anti-redhead brigade going.

What's interesting is that most of these major female superhero characters on the CW already are part of a feminist advocacy group called Shethority. https://shethority.com/ https://twitter.com/shethority which seems to be led by Caity Lotz (she even wears their merchandise in Legends episodes) and Candace Patton.

Panabaker is conspicuously absent, though, from that group, so that is notable. Also, she went out with outspoken Republican actor James Woods.

Caity Lotz is also getting heat from the intersectionalists, as well, for not being supportive enough of Candace Patton.

Couple this with the Batwoman recasting craziness, and the CW is devouring itself.

I doubt that The CW will fire Panabaker, though, as she is otherwise very popular, so this battle will probably stretch on and on.

https://boundingintocomics.com/2020/06/ ... er-firing/

More CW stuff:

Stephen Amell is racist for not proclaiming ACAB, for stating that Canada has a lot less gun violence, and for wanting to defend a neighborhood mom and pop convenience store from being smashed.

Grant Gustin, also, is castigated for not standing up enough for Candace Patton. Not sure if Candace Patton is saying anything at all about all of this, but it's not clear even if she defended them whether it would matter.

https://boundingintocomics.com/2020/06/ ... -franklin/
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I doubt the CW will fire Danielle Panabaker since she just had a child and that would open them up to all sorts of lawsuits and bad publicity. Most studios get into severe trouble unless they can find a really good cause that is work related.
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