DCEU is in Massive Danger!

Avengers, Batman, Superman, etc Discussion about comic mainstream movies and TV shows.
Darkdestroyer17

DCEU is in Massive Danger!

Post by Darkdestroyer17 »

Part 1: Mini Review

So I finally got around to seeing Justice League and while the movie was enjoyable i can understand the horrible reviews. The tone was way to reactionary and under no circumstances should Bruce Wayne, especially the one in BvS, be cracking jokes. Very campy at times and the score was very dated. Why in gods name did they not use Hans Zimmer?

There were plenty of plot holes (i wont go into specifics to avoid spoilers) and while the members of the JL worked as characters the villain and horrible CGI did not. Every thing felt rushed and half baked. The movie had some epic moments and the interaction between the characters was great. I hated how they brought back Superman and while i thought that the Ben Affleck in BvS was the best batman possibly ever, the one in Justice League was one that felt like an actor who has one foot out the door. The re shoot scenes especially as he seems to be out of shape and phoning it in. He is still fantastic under the cowl but the Bruce Wayne parts were a mixed bag. Its such a shame that it seems like he cant take the pressure of the role and i feel almost cheated. Henry Cavil has only gotten better in his role and i think Gal was on form. I really enjoyed Ray Fischer's performance and Ezra did a great job playing the character they asked him to but i think that this version of Barry Allen was a bit to goofy. I thought i was watching wally west at some points. (comic book wally not the cw show version). Jason Mamoa sure looked the part but i honestly dont even feel he needed to be there. Jeremy irons is my favorite Alfred ever and tbh there was really no point of having commissioner Gordon appear.

Id give this movie a 7/10.

Part 2: Where does the Dceu goes from here

JL not only under performed critically but it also is a box office disaster as it just had the lowest opening weekend of any DCEU movie ever! There is absolutely no way it should've, under any circumstance, performed less than Suicide squad but it did.

DCEU OPENING WEEKEND:
BvS- 166 million
Suicide Squad- 135 million
Man of Steel - 116 million
Wonder Woman- 103 million
JUSTICE LEAGUE- 96 million

Justice League needed to cross the billion dollar mark to be a success but now i dont think it will cross the 600 million mark needed to break even. This is very upsetting as now there is a high probability of the DCEU getting scrapped all together. Especially with the bad rep it achieved, it's well received Batman probably having to be recast, its inability to work with the right directors, its plans for all these side movies (batgirl, joker movie, gotham city sirens, nightwing etc) before even having a solo movie for anyone besides WW and Supes yet, and lack of patience by the studio. BvS was rushed, Sucide Squad was rushed (david ayer had something like 6 weeks to write the script), Justice League was rushed and should have been pushed back after the Snyder Tragedy instead of giving it to replacement director with only 6 months to make it all work even it was Joss Whedon. The two best and critically received movies in the Dceu were Man of Steel and Wonder woman and neither were rushed.

I think there are a couple scenarios and none of them good:
1. WB scraps the Dceu all together and returns to solo non connected batman and superman trilogies while keeping the Gal Gadot wonder woman sequel in production. This would men Henry Cavill, Affleck, Miller, and all the great castings for the dceu literally just lost their roles.

2. WB will still scrap the DCEU but only as it is now and will try again with new castings and a hard reboot 3-5 years from now.

3. WB will continue to try and course correct while continuing to build off of what the DCEU has done so far.

While i would prefer for number 3 to be the option they go with i think that its the least likely because the bad rep the DCEU has and its mixed reviews will be a hard thing to wash off. They are also forced to operate in the world Snyder made. The shift in tone in JL was jarring and felt out of place. Dark and gritty can work. Just have good writing and stop being reactionary. If people are going to give the DCEU the time of day or a second chance than they probably will have to just blow everything up and build from the ground up with new writers, directors, actors, and a single person in charge of continuity and content for the entire cinematic universe. Either way JL was a massive massive blow as their "avengers" movie came in as their lowest opening weekend box office in the history of the DCEU.

What do you guys think? Where do you see the DCEU going from here and what would you want them to do?
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Re: DCEU is in Massive Danger!

Post by lionbadger »

There is no story to tell with batman, we've seen tons of him since the 80s, they should bin him. They should probably do the same with superman.

We haven't had a wonder woman film and thus I suspect it's newness is what helped it. That should perhaps be the focus. Pick 6 relatively unknown characters and tell their stories, then cross themover to fight Super Baddie Placeholder (and maybe they lose so you could re introduce superman? Or too ex machina)

I don't go to see dc movies in the cinema (i don't go see many movies in the cinema, the odd marvel or star wars because they're probably going to be fun) because I know how batman became batman and I know the dark knight x3 was grim and harrowing and I don't need more of that gloomy shitt
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Re: DCEU is in Massive Danger!

Post by Femina »

Any movie that needs to cross 600 million to break even doesn't really know what its doing. I don't think it actually needs to make THAT much to be considered a success unless my understanding of its budget is WAAAAAAAY off. Still, don't read TO much into opening weekends. They've known the DCEU is in dire straits and no doubt will have calculated that into their potential opening week expectations. WW opened second worst on your list there and ended up making more overall than BvS did, if the movie is acceptable and brings in good word of mouth it can still draw in the people who would have wanted to see it before BvS and Suicide Squad sucked up their expectations, if it isn't acceptable then.... well the WORST thing that can happen is in fact number 3...they just stop and start the damn thing over again from scratch... but is that really such a bad thing? Why keep trying to course correct a ship that's been pretty dicey since it launched when the materials still exist to make a brand new, better boat?
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Re: DCEU is in Massive Danger!

Post by shevek »

Saturday I went to the theater to support the Justice League movie. I saw a bunch of people I knew at the multiplex, but they were all variations of intellectual hipster types, so none of them were going to see Justice League. I knew that Justice League was in trouble when there were only about 20 people there for an afternoon showing the day after the movie came out, and yet the theater next door was packed for...get this....Ladybird.

Word of mouth is not going to improve box office in the next couple weeks because frankly the movie was just passable, and that's not going to be enough excitement to bring new viewers to the theaters. If the promoters have any sense they will downplay every other angle except Gal Gadot and the Amazons, and maybe also Jason Momoa's bare chest (dude is ripped), and hope to get some rebound action that way (especially from the female audience). The Wonder Woman movie was so huge because women went to
see it, several times.

Meanwhile, I caught wind of this interview and found out that Ezra Miller (who plays the Flash in Justice
League) is a repulsive, cringey dumpster fire of a human being. Compare and contrast his snowflakey nonsense with the down-to-earth, completely natural and normal presence of Gal Gadot. I don't think the DCEU is dead yet, but they'd better find some more admirable stars like Gal pretty quickly, or it will be.

Darkdestroyer17

Re: DCEU is in Massive Danger!

Post by Darkdestroyer17 »

Femina wrote: 4 years ago Any movie that needs to cross 600 million to break even doesn't really know what its doing. I don't think it actually needs to make THAT much to be considered a success unless my understanding of its budget is WAAAAAAAY off. Still, don't read TO much into opening weekends. They've known the DCEU is in dire straits and no doubt will have calculated that into their potential opening week expectations. WW opened second worst on your list there and ended up making more overall than BvS did, if the movie is acceptable and brings in good word of mouth it can still draw in the people who would have wanted to see it before BvS and Suicide Squad sucked up their expectations, if it isn't acceptable then.... well the WORST thing that can happen is in fact number 3...they just stop and start the damn thing over again from scratch... but is that really such a bad thing? Why keep trying to course correct a ship that's been pretty dicey since it launched when the materials still exist to make a brand new, better boat?
The budget for JL almost doubled i think with the reshoots and cgi.
Wonder Woman passed BvS (domestically not total) because of positive word of mouth which gave the movie legs from week to week.

I like your boat analogy i think that is what needs to happen. All the rumors, reviews etc poked holes in the dceu ship. I think as a fan its very sad because of lost potential. Sucks that Henry Cavill will no longer be superman in that case as well. In any case yea although i hate it it is probably the best thing they can do at this point.
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Re: DCEU is in Massive Danger!

Post by Darkdestroyer17 »

shevek wrote: 4 years ago Saturday I went to the theater to support the Justice League movie. I saw a bunch of people I knew at the multiplex, but they were all variations of intellectual hipster types, so none of them were going to see Justice League. I knew that Justice League was in trouble when there were only about 20 people there for an afternoon showing the day after the movie came out, and yet the theater next door was packed for...get this....Ladybird.

Word of mouth is not going to improve box office in the next couple weeks because frankly the movie was just passable, and that's not going to be enough excitement to bring new viewers to the theaters. If the promoters have any sense they will downplay every other angle except Gal Gadot and the Amazons, and maybe also Jason Momoa's bare chest (dude is ripped), and hope to get some rebound action that way (especially from the female audience). The Wonder Woman movie was so huge because women went to
see it, several times.

Meanwhile, I caught wind of this interview and found out that Ezra Miller (who plays the Flash in Justice
League) is a repulsive, cringey dumpster fire of a human being. Compare and contrast his snowflakey nonsense with the down-to-earth, completely natural and normal presence of Gal Gadot. I don't think the DCEU is dead yet, but they'd better find some more admirable stars like Gal pretty quickly, or it will be.

I agree with your first two paragraphs. I also noticed the theaters were empty and that the consensus around people i know was that it was one to skip. Its almost cool to hate the DCEU now. Which is the studios fault.

As far as Mr. Ezra he is definitely an odd one and that interview you linked was odd. However the character he plays is up to the director and what his character does and says is in the script. I don't think the character of the stars in the role have as much to do with the performance they are able to give in the role.

Otherwise i think you make some very good points.
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Re: DCEU is in Massive Danger!

Post by Dogfish »

The problem is at this point the crap they've built up more than outweighs the good elements of the movies thus far. On balance they probably ought to ditch the series. The fundamental changes required to make the series good at this point would make it all so incredibly disjointed that it wouldn't be coherent anyway. Plus they've burned three of the big moments in the DC canon (Death of Superman, Rebirth of Superman, Uniting the Big Three) for literally zero gravitas. Even if they keep plodding on they don't have anything significant to offer. I mean Superman dies in Batman Vs Superman and nobody cared, and then they cared even less when he came back. That should matter and if it doesn't matter you've got something profoundly wrong.

Also in a practical sense the sooner they ditch the sooner they can start again.

The bottom line from a business perspective is that the characters they've got ought to be making way more money than they are and the current movie universe is not only failing to deliver the payout that it should be, it is also damaging the value of those characters in future.

I mean there's a more long term thing to consider here which is that comic book heroes have a shelf life. The last generation of moviegoers that grew up on comics is here, we're it. Which means whatever value Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman have going forward for generations to come is going to be established in these movies and the other stuff that goes with them. So making bad movies that kids won't like, and that aren't even aimed at them, and that people generally don't like, isn't just bad business today, it's bad business for ten, twenty, thirty years down the line. They're killing their golden egg laying geese here.
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Re: DCEU is in Massive Danger!

Post by Mr. X »

I think super hero movies are going the way of westerns. They will die at some point. DC is just too late.

Its funny cause DC is doing good comic book wise and its Marvel that is utterly failing in comic books. DC also does fantastic in animated pieces but Marvel falls flat. Its like DC has stayed with its roots of comic books and animated pieces while Marvel is just about the movies.
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Re: DCEU is in Massive Danger!

Post by Dogfish »

Mr. X wrote: 4 years ago I think super hero movies are going the way of westerns. They will die at some point. DC is just too late.

Its funny cause DC is doing good comic book wise and its Marvel that is utterly failing in comic books. DC also does fantastic in animated pieces but Marvel falls flat. Its like DC has stayed with its roots of comic books and animated pieces while Marvel is just about the movies.
I don't think it's anything artful as that. DC have just been making bad movies. They've been hiring the wrong people to shoot the wrong kind of film and it's bad. They can make a great film about The Lego Version Of Batman, so there's nothing old school or true to its roots going on here. The Arkham video games are great. DC/WB can do great things with new mediums. They've just done a horrible job with their main movies. Some horrible choices made and shortcuts taken.

The blame for this I think lies with the Christopher Nolan Batman movies. They were massively successful and gained consideration far above what you'd expect for a superhero movie. Hell didn't one of them even get an Oscar? They raised the bar. So what WB/DC did when they made the new movies was they tried to recapture the Dark Knight movies tone and style. And it's been a disaster.
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Re: DCEU is in Massive Danger!

Post by Visitor »

WB will keep making some DCEU just because they don't want to concede the market to Disney/Marvel. As long as they at least break even, then they can justify doing it because it also gives them merchandise and marketing of the comic books. Make enough flops and they'll drop out again.

But what they really need are better writers working on the movies and TV series. The fact that there were good movies shows that they can do it. The TV series are, we're on the CW so we don't expect to get good ratings. They could make them better and stop making them soap operas with super hero costume characters.
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Re: DCEU is in Massive Danger!

Post by Femina »

Mr. X wrote: 4 years ago I think super hero movies are going the way of westerns. They will die at some point. DC is just too late.
I don't actually agree with this. I've seen the sentiment around, and while we're definitely eventually going to see a decline in popularity, I suspect it more likely that there will just come a point where we get more quality less quantity in superhero films...

either that or something 'similar' will take its place and while it won't be 'superhero' films outright, there will be 'hero' films. I mean you can look at some fantasy films as basically just 'superheroes in medieval settings'

I sort of feel like the superhero genre is in full tilt right now because of an enormous deficit in our opinions of real people and an almost universal lack of people to look up to as heroes. Humanity is more jaded than ever... and so our most popular escapist fantasy is more than ever showing what we 'wish' was the case... and even then we keep trying to seed our jaded sensibilities into superhero films and being annoyed that it keeps making them to 'dark'

So even if the 'superhero' genre (if it even really IS a genre at all... I tend to view them as not that far removed from ordinary action films for the most part) goes away in its present 'derived from comic books' form... I doubt it's going the way of the western anytime soon.
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Re: DCEU is in Massive Danger!

Post by Mamooche24 »

There is no universe in which WB cancels the DCEU. There is far too much money and resources already invested in it, not to mention the Aquaman solo film being in the can and Wonder Woman 2 on the way. If you really think they will cancel this whole interconnected universe you are an idiot lol

What they WILL do is retool things a bit more, trim some movies from the slate, and likely reshuffle the higher ups at Warner Brothers who got us in this dire spot. We still have a solo Batman movie coming too. So breathe. Relax. Enough of the doom and gloom.
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Re: DCEU is in Massive Danger!

Post by Darkdestroyer17 »

Mr. X wrote: 4 years ago I think super hero movies are going the way of westerns. They will die at some point. DC is just too late.

Its funny cause DC is doing good comic book wise and its Marvel that is utterly failing in comic books. DC also does fantastic in animated pieces but Marvel falls flat. Its like DC has stayed with its roots of comic books and animated pieces while Marvel is just about the movies.
If you look at 2017:

Wonder Woman - highest grossing superhero origin movie of all time
Thor Ragnarok- Highest grossing Thor movie of all time
Spider Man Homecoming- out grossed Amazing Spider-man 2 by 170 million
Logan - Critically acclaimed and highest grossing wolverine movie ever
Guardians of the Galaxy 2- out grossed the massive success of the first one by over 100 million


The data shows that "superhero movie fatigue" is not happening yet.
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Re: DCEU is in Massive Danger!

Post by Darkdestroyer17 »

Dogfish wrote: 4 years ago
I mean there's a more long term thing to consider here which is that comic book heroes have a shelf life. The last generation of moviegoers that grew up on comics is here, we're it. Which means whatever value Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman have going forward for generations to come is going to be established in these movies and the other stuff that goes with them. So making bad movies that kids won't like, and that aren't even aimed at them, and that people generally don't like, isn't just bad business today, it's bad business for ten, twenty, thirty years down the line. They're killing their golden egg laying geese here.
I disagree and history disagrees. Comics as we know them may be becoming part of the past but the characters and stories will live on through different mediums. Movies, Tv, and the internet actually have saved comics and these characters are timeless. They and Star Wars are the greek mythology of today. As a society we have become more science oriented and the place for our myths is now in movies,books, and tv. If these characters had a shelf life they wouldn't have made it to the 2000's. The Superman and Batman logo's would not be one of the most recognizable symbols in the world.
Visitor wrote: 4 years ago WB will keep making some DCEU just because they don't want to concede the market to Disney/Marvel. As long as they at least break even, then they can justify doing it because it also gives them merchandise and marketing of the comic books. Make enough flops and they'll drop out again.
If they dont reboot marvel will have the market.
Femina wrote: 4 years ago
Mr. X wrote: 4 years ago I think super hero movies are going the way of westerns. They will die at some point. DC is just too late.
I don't actually agree with this. I've seen the sentiment around, and while we're definitely eventually going to see a decline in popularity, I suspect it more likely that there will just come a point where we get more quality less quantity in superhero films...

either that or something 'similar' will take its place and while it won't be 'superhero' films outright, there will be 'hero' films. I mean you can look at some fantasy films as basically just 'superheroes in medieval settings'

I sort of feel like the superhero genre is in full tilt right now because of an enormous deficit in our opinions of real people and an almost universal lack of people to look up to as heroes. Humanity is more jaded than ever... and so our most popular escapist fantasy is more than ever showing what we 'wish' was the case... and even then we keep trying to seed our jaded sensibilities into superhero films and being annoyed that it keeps making them to 'dark'

So even if the 'superhero' genre (if it even really IS a genre at all... I tend to view them as not that far removed from ordinary action films for the most part) goes away in its present 'derived from comic books' form... I doubt it's going the way of the western anytime soon.
Very Well said. As I said before these characters have filled the role of mythos in our society today. Heroes are prevalent in EVERY MOVIE EVER. Its the reason these characters and super hero movies are so popular in the first place. I think that quality over quantity is the future as well but not because people are tired of the movies but because people will be more selective as they are spoiled for choice right now.
Mamooche24 wrote: 4 years ago There is no universe in which WB cancels the DCEU. There is far too much money and resources already invested in it, not to mention the Aquaman solo film being in the can and Wonder Woman 2 on the way. If you really think they will cancel this whole interconnected universe you are an idiot lol

What they WILL do is retool things a bit more, trim some movies from the slate, and likely reshuffle the higher ups at Warner Brothers who got us in this dire spot. We still have a solo Batman movie coming too. So breathe. Relax. Enough of the doom and gloom.
No way if Justice League (what should've been a 1.5 billion dollar movie at least) is bombing it means that the dceu has a reputation it can no longer save itself from. Nothing they release now will change things.
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Re: DCEU is in Massive Danger!

Post by Mr. X »

Darkdestroyer17 wrote: 4 years ago
Mr. X wrote: 4 years ago I think super hero movies are going the way of westerns. They will die at some point. DC is just too late.

Its funny cause DC is doing good comic book wise and its Marvel that is utterly failing in comic books. DC also does fantastic in animated pieces but Marvel falls flat. Its like DC has stayed with its roots of comic books and animated pieces while Marvel is just about the movies.
If you look at 2017:

Wonder Woman - highest grossing superhero origin movie of all time
Thor Ragnarok- Highest grossing Thor movie of all time
Spider Man Homecoming- out grossed Amazing Spider-man 2 by 170 million
Logan - Critically acclaimed and highest grossing wolverine movie ever
Guardians of the Galaxy 2- out grossed the massive success of the first one by over 100 million


The data shows that "superhero movie fatigue" is not happening yet.

Not yet. However that was the same for westerns. Popular then faded. I also don't agree with the numbers meaning there is no fatigue. Eskimos love blubber cause that's all they serve at the all you can eat arctic buffet.
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Re: DCEU is in Massive Danger!

Post by clyde11 »

I'll wait until after Thanksgiving weekend before I jump on the "OMG the sky is falling" bandwagon. I saw it Saturday night at a multiplex down the street. It was playing on numerous screens, and every show time from 5:00 onwards was nearly sold out. It made 94 million of an expected 110 million. That's not a "disaster", at least, not yet. It's just not what they were expecting.
And that's not counting the 180 million it has already made overseas.
Thanksgiving weekend will probably give it a boast. Thanksgiving day is a big movie day.
Everyone is comparing it to what the other DCEU movies have made opening weekend which is making everyone go ape shit and yelling, "it's a disaster!"
They said the exact same thing about BvS, even when it went over 800 million.
So no matter how much this movie makes people will still be talking about what it didn't make.
"It made 700 million...but it should have made a 800. It's a disaster!"
"It made 800 million,...but it should have made a billion!"
"It made a billion...but it should have made 5 billion!"
Numbers don't lie but perception is often false.
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Re: DCEU is in Massive Danger!

Post by Mr. X »

But are these people going specifically to see the movie or cause they are just going to see any old movie on turkey day weekend.
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Re: DCEU is in Massive Danger!

Post by clyde11 »

Well, I used to work at a theater way back when, and Thanksgiving was our biggest day of the year. The weekend itself was also huge business. And usually, movies that premiered the weekend before Thanksgiving would get a big boost on Turkey day because people usually will say, " I wanna see that but lets wait until Thursday and we can go and see it together as a family."
I have four of my friends and several people at work who all told me, "I'm going to see it on Thursday with the family." No joke.
I'm going to see it again on Wednesday with a friend who did not want to deal with the opening weekend crowd.
But more directly to your point, a lot of movies will get a boast this weekend, not just JL.
I just think that many folks maybe waiting for this weekend to see it.
Either way I think the movie will make a big profit.
Just not what folks wanted or expected it to make.
I guess the movie being a disaster depends on one's perception.
Ya' know, half empty or half full.
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Re: DCEU is in Massive Danger!

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Remember its not dollar amount, its ROI that matters.
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Re: DCEU is in Massive Danger!

Post by shevek »

There's something that I think we're almost all forgetting (except for someone who mentioned overseas potential): a lot of movies these days make their gold overseas, especially in huge markets like China.
If Justice League pulls in huge numbers overseas, the expense is then justified.

I, for one, do not think the DCEU will reboot. There are more movies to come that are not only in the can but
hot in development, such as Gotham City Sirens and Batgirl. And as was said above, WB will want to keep putting the pressure on if Marvel keeps coming out with stuff. Wonder Woman 2 vs Captain Marvel will be an interesting test, for example (I think Gal Gadot will win by several lengths over Brie Larson).

As for the extreme millennial sjw goofiness of Ezra Miller, yes I'm fully aware he'll speak whatever lines the script tells him to. I just wanted to demonstrate the difference between a flash-in-the-pan fluffpuppy like himself and the dignified bearing of a true superstar like Gadot.
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Re: DCEU is in Massive Danger!

Post by Dogfish »

The thing I wonder is if there is anybody out there who doesn't want a reboot, as a fan. I mean the list of fails in the DCEU so far makes grim reading:

1. They did the Death of Superman, and it was bad.
2. They've done Batman fights Superman, and it was bad.
3. This version of Lex Luthor is so bad.
4. Worst possible depiction of the Joker.
5. The whole Zod and co from Krypton plot is used up.
6. They've done Superman comes back from the dead, and it was bad.

Almost all of the A-list classic plot lines from the DC comics are used up, and they've all been duds. At this point I'm not even sure making good movies would save them, but that might be a moot point because on the evidence so far that's something they can't do.
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Re: DCEU is in Massive Danger!

Post by Mamooche24 »

Its become quite clear Dark Destroyer clearly knows nothing about the movie business. I run a movie theater; have for 13 years.

You saying its "impossible for them to recover from this" is incredibly idiotic. All they need to do is release a solo Batman flick that gets rave reviews and then another solid Wonder Woman 2 and then things will be as rosy and starry as they were back in June after the original Wonder WOman.

And all your childish talk of immediate reboots is just you stuck on doom and gloom mode. There is NO WAY in any realistic universe that they just cancel this whole multi-million dollar enterprise right here and now.

For god sake, they just finished filming the Aquaman solo flick. By your logic you assume they will just let this nearly billion dollar movie collect dust in the WB vault? Dont be naive.
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Re: DCEU is in Massive Danger!

Post by Femina »

Mamooche24 wrote: 4 years ago Its become quite clear Dark Destroyer clearly knows nothing about the movie business. I run a movie theater; have for 13 years.

You saying its "impossible for them to recover from this" is incredibly idiotic. All they need to do is release a solo Batman flick that gets rave reviews and then another solid Wonder Woman 2 and then things will be as rosy and starry as they were back in June after the original Wonder WOman.

And all your childish talk of immediate reboots is just you stuck on doom and gloom mode. There is NO WAY in any realistic universe that they just cancel this whole multi-million dollar enterprise right here and now.

For god sake, they just finished filming the Aquaman solo flick. By your logic you assume they will just let this nearly billion dollar movie collect dust in the WB vault? Dont be naive.
He's just stating his opinion, disagree all you like but let's leave out the attacks on his character huh? It's not unheard of to be questioning if DC can keep up their momentum after dropping a couple metaphorical turds and then getting weak returns on what should essentially be their flagship magnum opus.
Mamooche24
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Re: DCEU is in Massive Danger!

Post by Mamooche24 »

Femina wrote: 4 years ago
Mamooche24 wrote: 4 years ago Its become quite clear Dark Destroyer clearly knows nothing about the movie business. I run a movie theater; have for 13 years.

You saying its "impossible for them to recover from this" is incredibly idiotic. All they need to do is release a solo Batman flick that gets rave reviews and then another solid Wonder Woman 2 and then things will be as rosy and starry as they were back in June after the original Wonder WOman.

And all your childish talk of immediate reboots is just you stuck on doom and gloom mode. There is NO WAY in any realistic universe that they just cancel this whole multi-million dollar enterprise right here and now.

For god sake, they just finished filming the Aquaman solo flick. By your logic you assume they will just let this nearly billion dollar movie collect dust in the WB vault? Dont be naive.
He's just stating his opinion, disagree all you like but let's leave out the attacks on his character huh? It's not unheard of to be questioning if DC can keep up their momentum after dropping a couple metaphorical turds and then getting weak returns on what should essentially be their flagship magnum opus.
It just rubs me the wrong way when people speak of their opinion as fact and that things are a "done deal" when they are in no way finished or finalized. Nothing is confirmed beyond the disappointing opening weekend.
Darkdestroyer17

Re: DCEU is in Massive Danger!

Post by Darkdestroyer17 »

Dogfish wrote: 4 years ago The thing I wonder is if there is anybody out there who doesn't want a reboot, as a fan. I mean the list of fails in the DCEU so far makes grim reading:

1. They did the Death of Superman, and it was bad.
2. They've done Batman fights Superman, and it was bad.
3. This version of Lex Luthor is so bad.
4. Worst possible depiction of the Joker.
5. The whole Zod and co from Krypton plot is used up.
6. They've done Superman comes back from the dead, and it was bad.

Almost all of the A-list classic plot lines from the DC comics are used up, and they've all been duds. At this point I'm not even sure making good movies would save them, but that might be a moot point because on the evidence so far that's something they can't do.
Thats not even remotely true. Its not the material its the execution and they barely have used any A-list material. I agree that a reboot is in order though.
Darkdestroyer17

Re: DCEU is in Massive Danger!

Post by Darkdestroyer17 »

Mamooche24 wrote: 4 years ago
Femina wrote: 4 years ago
Mamooche24 wrote: 4 years ago Its become quite clear Dark Destroyer clearly knows nothing about the movie business. I run a movie theater; have for 13 years.

You saying its "impossible for them to recover from this" is incredibly idiotic. All they need to do is release a solo Batman flick that gets rave reviews and then another solid Wonder Woman 2 and then things will be as rosy and starry as they were back in June after the original Wonder WOman.

And all your childish talk of immediate reboots is just you stuck on doom and gloom mode. There is NO WAY in any realistic universe that they just cancel this whole multi-million dollar enterprise right here and now.

For god sake, they just finished filming the Aquaman solo flick. By your logic you assume they will just let this nearly billion dollar movie collect dust in the WB vault? Dont be naive.
He's just stating his opinion, disagree all you like but let's leave out the attacks on his character huh? It's not unheard of to be questioning if DC can keep up their momentum after dropping a couple metaphorical turds and then getting weak returns on what should essentially be their flagship magnum opus.
It just rubs me the wrong way when people speak of their opinion as fact and that things are a "done deal" when they are in no way finished or finalized. Nothing is confirmed beyond the disappointing opening weekend.
There is not a universe in which WB gives up on their DC properties yes but your not understanding. Im talking about them rebooting the current DC shared universe as it stands today. Wonder Woman did amazing critically and in the box office and it did nothing to save JL. I think you are off here. Also if you read some of the points that have been made you will see that while it is not a "done deal" the bad reviews will not help it from week to week. What is fact is that its the lowest opener in the history of the DCEU. Thats fact brother. You can expect a 60 percent dip in box office this weekend. Also its unbecoming to use personal insults in a discourse. You might give the impression that you don't know what your talking about.
Darkdestroyer17

Re: DCEU is in Massive Danger!

Post by Darkdestroyer17 »

shevek wrote: 4 years ago There's something that I think we're almost all forgetting (except for someone who mentioned overseas potential): a lot of movies these days make their gold overseas, especially in huge markets like China.
If Justice League pulls in huge numbers overseas, the expense is then justified.

I, for one, do not think the DCEU will reboot. There are more movies to come that are not only in the can but
hot in development, such as Gotham City Sirens and Batgirl. And as was said above, WB will want to keep putting the pressure on if Marvel keeps coming out with stuff. Wonder Woman 2 vs Captain Marvel will be an interesting test, for example (I think Gal Gadot will win by several lengths over Brie Larson).

As for the extreme millennial sjw goofiness of Ezra Miller, yes I'm fully aware he'll speak whatever lines the script tells him to. I just wanted to demonstrate the difference between a flash-in-the-pan fluffpuppy like himself and the dignified bearing of a true superstar like Gadot.
I understand where you are coming from. I think its a bad idea and disservice to the characters to release GCS and Batgirl before getting their main characters right. Im not sure you can have success with side characters if the audience doesn't even trust the studio to do the trinity right. I dont think anything they put out from now on will reach its potential. I dont know that DC can get the stink off the DCEU as it is now.

As far as WW vs CM i think that a rising tide floats all ships and that ,like in the comic world, its in marvel and DC best interest for each other to be successful.

P.S. It already opened in china. 50 million.
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Re: DCEU is in Massive Danger!

Post by Mamooche24 »

Darkdestroyer17 wrote: 4 years ago
Mamooche24 wrote: 4 years ago
Femina wrote: 4 years ago
Mamooche24 wrote: 4 years ago Its become quite clear Dark Destroyer clearly knows nothing about the movie business. I run a movie theater; have for 13 years.

You saying its "impossible for them to recover from this" is incredibly idiotic. All they need to do is release a solo Batman flick that gets rave reviews and then another solid Wonder Woman 2 and then things will be as rosy and starry as they were back in June after the original Wonder WOman.

And all your childish talk of immediate reboots is just you stuck on doom and gloom mode. There is NO WAY in any realistic universe that they just cancel this whole multi-million dollar enterprise right here and now.

For god sake, they just finished filming the Aquaman solo flick. By your logic you assume they will just let this nearly billion dollar movie collect dust in the WB vault? Dont be naive.
He's just stating his opinion, disagree all you like but let's leave out the attacks on his character huh? It's not unheard of to be questioning if DC can keep up their momentum after dropping a couple metaphorical turds and then getting weak returns on what should essentially be their flagship magnum opus.
It just rubs me the wrong way when people speak of their opinion as fact and that things are a "done deal" when they are in no way finished or finalized. Nothing is confirmed beyond the disappointing opening weekend.
There is not a universe in which WB gives up on their DC properties yes but your not understanding. Im talking about them rebooting the current DC shared universe as it stands today. Wonder Woman did amazing critically and in the box office and it did nothing to save JL. I think you are off here. Also if you read some of the points that have been made you will see that while it is not a "done deal" the bad reviews will not help it from week to week. What is fact is that its the lowest opener in the history of the DCEU. Thats fact brother. You can expect a 60 percent dip in box office this weekend. Also its unbecoming to use personal insults in a discourse. You might give the impression that you don't know what your talking about.
I didnt misunderstand you; I just think we have wildly different ideas of what the word "reboot" means. A reboot means you abandon everything and start from scratch. That means discontinue any ongoing story threads and recast everything. There is absolutely no chance in hell that will be happening in this case, mostly for the reasons you yourself just said.

Wonder Woman was a resounding success. They will not recast Gal Gadot for that reason, as well as not disregard that film. They also have an Aquaman solo film already shot with the current Aquaman actor. These two facts alone totally destroy your idea that they will shelve this whole thing, regardless of one dissapointing opening weekend.

And while it was dissapointing, JL has now earned over 100 million domestically as well as 185 + overseas.
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Re: DCEU is in Massive Danger!

Post by Dogfish »

Darkdestroyer17 wrote: 4 years ago
Dogfish wrote: 4 years ago The thing I wonder is if there is anybody out there who doesn't want a reboot, as a fan. I mean the list of fails in the DCEU so far makes grim reading:

1. They did the Death of Superman, and it was bad.
2. They've done Batman fights Superman, and it was bad.
3. This version of Lex Luthor is so bad.
4. Worst possible depiction of the Joker.
5. The whole Zod and co from Krypton plot is used up.
6. They've done Superman comes back from the dead, and it was bad.

Almost all of the A-list classic plot lines from the DC comics are used up, and they've all been duds. At this point I'm not even sure making good movies would save them, but that might be a moot point because on the evidence so far that's something they can't do.
Thats not even remotely true. Its not the material its the execution and they barely have used any A-list material. I agree that a reboot is in order though.
Not saying the material is bad, rather that it's been expended. They've used the biggest bits. There is no bigger Superman storyline than Death of Superman. There is no bigger Batman storyline than The Dark Knight Returns (they can't do The Killing Joke because, I mean, really? With this Joker?) There is no bigger fight in DC than Superman vs Batman. And they've done them and nobody cared. What can they do now? Kill Superman again? Kill Batman?

This is why they need a reboot. They've done a scorched earth project on their own source material and most of what they've got left is weak. I mean sure they've got the looming space threat guy coming to take over the world, but Marvel has got one of those too and theirs will be better.

That said, given how much of the main plot beats of the DC comics universe they've used, it's quite possible that instead of a reboot they'll just knuckle down, find a finishing point and power through it. Could probably wrap up whatever the Justice League is up to in one more movie. They've already shortened the planned project once, they can do it again.
Darkdestroyer17

Re: DCEU is in Massive Danger!

Post by Darkdestroyer17 »

Mamooche24 wrote: 4 years ago
Darkdestroyer17 wrote: 4 years ago
Mamooche24 wrote: 4 years ago
Femina wrote: 4 years ago
Mamooche24 wrote: 4 years ago Its become quite clear Dark Destroyer clearly knows nothing about the movie business. I run a movie theater; have for 13 years.

You saying its "impossible for them to recover from this" is incredibly idiotic. All they need to do is release a solo Batman flick that gets rave reviews and then another solid Wonder Woman 2 and then things will be as rosy and starry as they were back in June after the original Wonder WOman.

And all your childish talk of immediate reboots is just you stuck on doom and gloom mode. There is NO WAY in any realistic universe that they just cancel this whole multi-million dollar enterprise right here and now.

For god sake, they just finished filming the Aquaman solo flick. By your logic you assume they will just let this nearly billion dollar movie collect dust in the WB vault? Dont be naive.
He's just stating his opinion, disagree all you like but let's leave out the attacks on his character huh? It's not unheard of to be questioning if DC can keep up their momentum after dropping a couple metaphorical turds and then getting weak returns on what should essentially be their flagship magnum opus.
It just rubs me the wrong way when people speak of their opinion as fact and that things are a "done deal" when they are in no way finished or finalized. Nothing is confirmed beyond the disappointing opening weekend.
There is not a universe in which WB gives up on their DC properties yes but your not understanding. Im talking about them rebooting the current DC shared universe as it stands today. Wonder Woman did amazing critically and in the box office and it did nothing to save JL. I think you are off here. Also if you read some of the points that have been made you will see that while it is not a "done deal" the bad reviews will not help it from week to week. What is fact is that its the lowest opener in the history of the DCEU. Thats fact brother. You can expect a 60 percent dip in box office this weekend. Also its unbecoming to use personal insults in a discourse. You might give the impression that you don't know what your talking about.
I didnt misunderstand you; I just think we have wildly different ideas of what the word "reboot" means. A reboot means you abandon everything and start from scratch. That means discontinue any ongoing story threads and recast everything. There is absolutely no chance in hell that will be happening in this case, mostly for the reasons you yourself just said.

Wonder Woman was a resounding success. They will not recast Gal Gadot for that reason, as well as not disregard that film. They also have an Aquaman solo film already shot with the current Aquaman actor. These two facts alone totally destroy your idea that they will shelve this whole thing, regardless of one dissapointing opening weekend.

And while it was dissapointing, JL has now earned over 100 million domestically as well as 185 + overseas.
The reboot will happen with flashpoint. Of course its not going to be immediate.
Darkdestroyer17

Re: DCEU is in Massive Danger!

Post by Darkdestroyer17 »

Dogfish wrote: 4 years ago
Darkdestroyer17 wrote: 4 years ago
Dogfish wrote: 4 years ago The thing I wonder is if there is anybody out there who doesn't want a reboot, as a fan. I mean the list of fails in the DCEU so far makes grim reading:

1. They did the Death of Superman, and it was bad.
2. They've done Batman fights Superman, and it was bad.
3. This version of Lex Luthor is so bad.
4. Worst possible depiction of the Joker.
5. The whole Zod and co from Krypton plot is used up.
6. They've done Superman comes back from the dead, and it was bad.

Almost all of the A-list classic plot lines from the DC comics are used up, and they've all been duds. At this point I'm not even sure making good movies would save them, but that might be a moot point because on the evidence so far that's something they can't do.
Thats not even remotely true. Its not the material its the execution and they barely have used any A-list material. I agree that a reboot is in order though.
Not saying the material is bad, rather that it's been expended. They've used the biggest bits. There is no bigger Superman storyline than Death of Superman. There is no bigger Batman storyline than The Dark Knight Returns (they can't do The Killing Joke because, I mean, really? With this Joker?) There is no bigger fight in DC than Superman vs Batman. And they've done them and nobody cared. What can they do now? Kill Superman again? Kill Batman?

This is why they need a reboot. They've done a scorched earth project on their own source material and most of what they've got left is weak. I mean sure they've got the looming space threat guy coming to take over the world, but Marvel has got one of those too and theirs will be better.

That said, given how much of the main plot beats of the DC comics universe they've used, it's quite possible that instead of a reboot they'll just knuckle down, find a finishing point and power through it. Could probably wrap up whatever the Justice League is up to in one more movie. They've already shortened the planned project once, they can do it again.
Even if what your saying is true (its not you named a handful when there a hundreds more storylines from the source material they can choose from. How big something is doesnt mean there arent quality lesser known storylines) your assuming they are limited to stories in the comics. In fact most times they will adapt aspects of a story and put it into an original narrative. Where there is a good writer there is always a good story.
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Re: DCEU is in Massive Danger!

Post by Mamooche24 »

Darkdestroyer17 wrote: 4 years ago
Mamooche24 wrote: 4 years ago
Darkdestroyer17 wrote: 4 years ago
Mamooche24 wrote: 4 years ago
Femina wrote: 4 years ago

He's just stating his opinion, disagree all you like but let's leave out the attacks on his character huh? It's not unheard of to be questioning if DC can keep up their momentum after dropping a couple metaphorical turds and then getting weak returns on what should essentially be their flagship magnum opus.
It just rubs me the wrong way when people speak of their opinion as fact and that things are a "done deal" when they are in no way finished or finalized. Nothing is confirmed beyond the disappointing opening weekend.
There is not a universe in which WB gives up on their DC properties yes but your not understanding. Im talking about them rebooting the current DC shared universe as it stands today. Wonder Woman did amazing critically and in the box office and it did nothing to save JL. I think you are off here. Also if you read some of the points that have been made you will see that while it is not a "done deal" the bad reviews will not help it from week to week. What is fact is that its the lowest opener in the history of the DCEU. Thats fact brother. You can expect a 60 percent dip in box office this weekend. Also its unbecoming to use personal insults in a discourse. You might give the impression that you don't know what your talking about.
I didnt misunderstand you; I just think we have wildly different ideas of what the word "reboot" means. A reboot means you abandon everything and start from scratch. That means discontinue any ongoing story threads and recast everything. There is absolutely no chance in hell that will be happening in this case, mostly for the reasons you yourself just said.

Wonder Woman was a resounding success. They will not recast Gal Gadot for that reason, as well as not disregard that film. They also have an Aquaman solo film already shot with the current Aquaman actor. These two facts alone totally destroy your idea that they will shelve this whole thing, regardless of one dissapointing opening weekend.

And while it was dissapointing, JL has now earned over 100 million domestically as well as 185 + overseas.
The reboot will happen with flashpoint. Of course its not going to be immediate.
Quit acting like your word is gospel lol you speak as if youre stating facts, when you have ZERO factual info to back it up. Thats what initially rubbed me the wrong way.

That being said, the Flashpoint storyline leaves that option open, sure. But even if they go that route, EVERYTHING wont be shot out the window. Certain castings will stay, and certain events will still be in-continuity, much like what they did with X Men Days Of Future Past. Your initial posting claims of a total cancellation and restart, which will never happen. Its clearly heading towards an in-continuty retooling. Now youre just backpedaling.
Darkdestroyer17

Re: DCEU is in Massive Danger!

Post by Darkdestroyer17 »

Mamooche24 wrote: 4 years ago
Darkdestroyer17 wrote: 4 years ago
Mamooche24 wrote: 4 years ago
Darkdestroyer17 wrote: 4 years ago
Mamooche24 wrote: 4 years ago

It just rubs me the wrong way when people speak of their opinion as fact and that things are a "done deal" when they are in no way finished or finalized. Nothing is confirmed beyond the disappointing opening weekend.
There is not a universe in which WB gives up on their DC properties yes but your not understanding. Im talking about them rebooting the current DC shared universe as it stands today. Wonder Woman did amazing critically and in the box office and it did nothing to save JL. I think you are off here. Also if you read some of the points that have been made you will see that while it is not a "done deal" the bad reviews will not help it from week to week. What is fact is that its the lowest opener in the history of the DCEU. Thats fact brother. You can expect a 60 percent dip in box office this weekend. Also its unbecoming to use personal insults in a discourse. You might give the impression that you don't know what your talking about.
I didnt misunderstand you; I just think we have wildly different ideas of what the word "reboot" means. A reboot means you abandon everything and start from scratch. That means discontinue any ongoing story threads and recast everything. There is absolutely no chance in hell that will be happening in this case, mostly for the reasons you yourself just said.

Wonder Woman was a resounding success. They will not recast Gal Gadot for that reason, as well as not disregard that film. They also have an Aquaman solo film already shot with the current Aquaman actor. These two facts alone totally destroy your idea that they will shelve this whole thing, regardless of one dissapointing opening weekend.

And while it was dissapointing, JL has now earned over 100 million domestically as well as 185 + overseas.
The reboot will happen with flashpoint. Of course its not going to be immediate.
Quit acting like your word is gospel lol you speak as if youre stating facts, when you have ZERO factual info to back it up. Thats what initially rubbed me the wrong way.

That being said, the Flashpoint storyline leaves that option open, sure. But even if they go that route, EVERYTHING wont be shot out the window. Certain castings will stay, and certain events will still be in-continuity, much like what they did with X Men Days Of Future Past. Your initial posting claims of a total cancellation and restart, which will never happen. Its clearly heading towards an in-continuty retooling. Now youre just backpedaling.
I would take another look. I did state statistics. Im not going to sit here and restate everything i said in my posts. If you read the first post you will see i listed POSSIBILITIES NONE IS CLAIMING TO KNOW THE FUTURE
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