Political Throwdown! It's Summerslam!

Topics, links and pics that are interesting, weird, or irrelevant!
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MightyHypnotic
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KnightsofGotham.com wrote:
6 years ago
Dont worry.
Ive learned my lesson.

Im done Posting anything that is not release related.
Im gonna stick to just posting as a producer here as thats the only safe way to post here.
for the record I didnt intend to have this descend into jet another left vs right
SJW vs Conservative free for all and when X started instigating maybe I should have kept my big mouth shut but I didnt want the thread deraikled and I guess I did just that.

Oh well.
Im human

but now I see that it didnt matter and Im getting a 3 day ban for it.

thats fine.
Ive said it before.
your sandbox, your rules.

Im just going to keep my trap shut and not bother trying to participate as a member of this forum.
I'll just keep posting my new releases and stick to being an outsider, its safer that way.

So thanks everyone for the chuckles and the interactions.

See you all next time when I have a new movie to release.
and if people turn that thread into a political hotmess Im gonna keep my mouth shut and let people shit all over the thread because thats the safest way not to get a three day ban or worse.

be well.
have fun.
it was nice being an interactive part of this community while it lasted.

See you at my next release
(or not at all if im destined to be perma-banned)
Honestly, this morning I was going to let it slide since nobody came out to condemn you. But then I realized you changed the title back. So it turns out I was right about you. Once a troll, always a troll. Take a breather.
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MightyHypnotic
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Femina wrote:
6 years ago
*Sigh* this is how it starts.

Tribunal? Seriously? 3 day bans for pointing out an article that a fetish model was marching in Charlottesville, no matter how 'political' seems pretty darned relevant to the community if you ask me. Did Mr. X delete all his posts BEFORE or AFTER that warning? Should I go back and delete every post as well to avoid bans? I mean it, seriously, is this what posting on this website is going to be now? A constant fear that I've posted something that's going to result in a 3-day ban?
First and foremost we are a superheroine forum. So I can personally guarantee that if you stick to superheroine topics, you will be fine.

When I woke up yesterday and checked my Facebook this was clearly the topic of the morning within my circle of friends. I thought that it was news but I also knew it would spark off the type of firestorm that we had just squashed days before. So I passed on posting it.
You guys want to discuss it? Fine, you now have a space to do that.

All Mr. X did was post a link to an earlier topic where I laid down the rules about political discussion in threads and I felt KoG tried to flip the script by blaming others for a potential thread lock.

Just to be clear I banned KoG for changing the title of this thread.

Im perfectly fine letting this thread take it's course as long as all participants know that it might get ugly.
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Femina
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I'm sure that's what everyone believes when they start laying down censorship. 'Political Throwdown! It's Summerslam' has essentially nothing to do with what this topic is about, it's a broad generalization encompassing everything from Charlottesville's riots to Trump's cabinet decisions to how we might think Russian economics will effect American trade relationships with China (What I'm getting at is that the title is extremely broad, and if it HAD to be changed than at the very least it could have been changed to something descriptive of what the conversation is about instead of what feels like a reaction to legitimate frustration and exasperation with ones own notably frustrating user base) Anyone joining from the front page wondering what it is isn't going to know, people who may want to talk about Charlottesville in general aren't going to know, people who want to discuss this PARTICULAR news (which again is very much relevant to our community) aren't going to know. Someone else might very well start the same topic somewhere else and not even realize the topic was already begun.

I don't like to consider that this website plays favorites, but it is even if it doesn't realize it. Mr. X didn't just post a link to earlier topics, he participated just as strongly in the discussion as everyone else, his pointing out that we'd just been told to forget about politics doesn't change that and deleting all his posts after the fact doesn't change that, it just cleans up evidence... which he shouldn't even have to feel obligate to do in the first place since a forum shouldn't feel like we've got big brother watching over our shoulders at everything we type in case we say something that not everyone else agrees with (Which in the SHiP fetish the only single thing everyone agrees with is that Superheroines in Peril is hot... and even in that we're finicky as hell. Pantyhose or no pantyhose? Chloroform or blackjack? No amount of rules censoring what we should be talking about will change that human beings argue or that some topics are going to have to be shut down eventually)

It may be this is 'just a superheroine forum, but the fact is it's a superheroine forum with a pretty dedicated community of strong minded individuals. That's normal, there's nothing WRONG with it, human beings bicker, and when they bicker to much it's fine to slip in and tell them to knock it off, but this doesn't feel like that. It feels like somebody who pointed out a legitimate piece of community news was banned for inciting a discussion that the management perceives as a riot. I feel fairly strongly that its only a matter of time before myself and others get the same treatment and that certain others will most decidedly NOT get the same treatment be it for reasons incidental, political, personal or business oriented. In short it feels exactly how I was worried it was going to feel the instant it was declared there was to be as little politics as possible now on the site.

I know your job here isn't easy, I know it's frustrating as hell to keep people in line while also trying your hardest to provide a fun place for us to go to, and I know many users here don't always try very hard to recognize that. It certainly doesn't help when you pass down a warning while holding out a lifeline for someone to immediately have someone respond with a quick 'Whelp whatever, but I'm out and you and all your friends suck! Chao!' What we've got however, and what's happening here doesn't feel like a solution. Perhaps what we need instead is an entire AREA for politics where we can discuss this stuff and where threads can be moved to if the management worries they are getting to political without loosing the focus of the entire discussion even in the topics own title? 'Nazi Supergirl...' may sound sensationalist I suppose... but it wasn't exactly inaccurate, and no worse than what turns up on the Front Page of newspapers or online articles. People still make topics to seek discussion, and you still need a hook to attract those people, I don't see exactly why this one in particular was deserving of punishment.
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RedMountain
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Femina wrote:
6 years ago
I'm sure that's what everyone believes when they start laying down censorship. 'Political Throwdown! It's Summerslam' has essentially nothing to do with what this topic is about, it's a broad generalization encompassing everything from Charlottesville's riots to Trump's cabinet decisions to how we might think Russian economics will effect American trade relationships with China (What I'm getting at is that the title is extremely broad, and if it HAD to be changed than at the very least it could have been changed to something descriptive of what the conversation is about instead of what feels like a reaction to legitimate frustration and exasperation with ones own notably frustrating user base) Anyone joining from the front page wondering what it is isn't going to know, people who may want to talk about Charlottesville in general aren't going to know, people who want to discuss this PARTICULAR news (which again is very much relevant to our community) aren't going to know. Someone else might very well start the same topic somewhere else and not even realize the topic was already begun.

I don't like to consider that this website plays favorites, but it is even if it doesn't realize it. Mr. X didn't just post a link to earlier topics, he participated just as strongly in the discussion as everyone else, his pointing out that we'd just been told to forget about politics doesn't change that and deleting all his posts after the fact doesn't change that, it just cleans up evidence... which he shouldn't even have to feel obligate to do in the first place since a forum shouldn't feel like we've got big brother watching over our shoulders at everything we type in case we say something that not everyone else agrees with (Which in the SHiP fetish the only single thing everyone agrees with is that Superheroines in Peril is hot... and even in that we're finicky as hell. Pantyhose or no pantyhose? Chloroform or blackjack? No amount of rules censoring what we should be talking about will change that human beings argue or that some topics are going to have to be shut down eventually)

It may be this is 'just a superheroine forum, but the fact is it's a superheroine forum with a pretty dedicated community of strong minded individuals. That's normal, there's nothing WRONG with it, human beings bicker, and when they bicker to much it's fine to slip in and tell them to knock it off, but this doesn't feel like that. It feels like somebody who pointed out a legitimate piece of community news was banned for inciting a discussion that the management perceives as a riot. I feel fairly strongly that its only a matter of time before myself and others get the same treatment and that certain others will most decidedly NOT get the same treatment be it for reasons incidental, political, personal or business oriented. In short it feels exactly how I was worried it was going to feel the instant it was declared there was to be as little politics as possible now on the site.

I know your job here isn't easy, I know it's frustrating as hell to keep people in line while also trying your hardest to provide a fun place for us to go to, and I know many users here don't always try very hard to recognize that. It certainly doesn't help when you pass down a warning while holding out a lifeline for someone to immediately have someone respond with a quick 'Whelp whatever, but I'm out and you and all your friends suck! Chao!' What we've got however, and what's happening here doesn't feel like a solution. Perhaps what we need instead is an entire AREA for politics where we can discuss this stuff and where threads can be moved to if the management worries they are getting to political without loosing the focus of the entire discussion even in the topics own title? 'Nazi Supergirl...' may sound sensationalist I suppose... but it wasn't exactly inaccurate, and no worse than what turns up on the Front Page of newspapers or online articles. People still make topics to seek discussion, and you still need a hook to attract those people, I don't see exactly why this one in particular was deserving of punishment.
This 100%
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MightyHypnotic
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Sorry but you're wrong.

What you don't see or maybe you don't know, there are a lot of people who come here for their superheroine fix that don't feel like joining a discussion for a myriad of reasons. They are the silent majority.

You know how some of the writers get frustrated that their stories get lots of views but hardly anyone comments? It's the same principle.

Most fans of this genre prefer to remain silent and anonymous. But that doesn't mean they don't have opinions and they will let me know when they are not happy or they've had enough, usually in the form of an email. A lot of times by not returning.

Not everyone on this forum wants to discuss or cares about anything other than superheroines. This is the place they come to get away from the "real" world. You can find more than enough of that discussion on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram,etc. It's everywhere.

Keeping that all in mind, I still broke my own rule and provided you with a thread to talk about politics (That's where the throwdown name came from because that's what these threads devolve into.) but suddenly nobody is interested.

So what is it? People only want to participate in a thread like this if you get to tear somebody down?

Who cares what Alisa Kiss does in her free time? She's an actress/model. She's not a character or an actual superheroine.

I could see if there was an episode of Supergirl where the girl of steel marches in a Nazi rally. That would be something to get upset about since it's actually superheroine related.

But if this person wants be a white supremacist or maybe she's not and didn't really think things through, who cares??

For the record I grew up in a Jewish neighborhood with 2 people that had tatoos on their arms from concentration camps. I also have 2 family members that fought in WWII. I don't condone anything to do with the Nazis in any way.

So in closing, this has nothing to do with censorship. This thread wasn't closed down and you could still carry on a conversation about Alisa or politics or anything else. If you guys want to fight and bicker, go ahead and do it.
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Mr. X
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MightyHypnotic wrote:
6 years ago
Who cares what Alisa Kiss does in her free time? She's an actress/model. She's not a character or an actual superheroine.
Again my concern is mostly that a producer/model can get shut down so hard and fast for merely being at an event with undesirables. I have been to breast cancer marches in seattle where extreme communists and BLM supporters carrying signs calling for the death of police officers showed up. That doesn't mean I agree with that nor should everything I do be destroyed cause I happen to be there or someone video taped me walking along side a BLM member with a sign that says "Roast the Pigs" or "Smash the White Man".

I think this kind of thing can greatly effect producers here. Say the wrong thing. Disagree with the wrong people. Support the wrong thing and your whole business is destroyed. My guess is many of her vendors pulled her video not out of protest but fear of zealots flagging them as hate. Herd mentality and the cattle are real spooked right now. Hypnotics own website could get yanked or hurt and all it takes is some troll zealots to crash the party.

Given what happened to Kiss are producers now going to have to quiz models on their political view points before using them so they don't have to pull the videos. Kiss may have been paid directly on most her videos however the vendor still needs inventory to sell and to make up the cost of production. Imagine if something came out about Christina Carter and Hypnotic and others had to pull all her videos. So do producers now quiz the models cause of this hyperbole outrage?
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Mr. X wrote:
6 years ago
Again my concern is mostly that a producer/model can get shut down so hard and fast for merely being at an event with undesirables. I have been to breast cancer marches in seattle where extreme communists and BLM supporters carrying signs calling for the death of police officers showed up. That doesn't mean I agree with that nor should everything I do be destroyed cause I happen to be there or someone video taped me walking along side a BLM member with a sign that says "Roast the Pigs" or "Smash the White Man".

I think this kind of thing can greatly effect producers here. Say the wrong thing. Disagree with the wrong people. Support the wrong thing and your whole business is destroyed. My guess is many of her vendors pulled her video not out of protest but fear of zealots flagging them as hate. Herd mentality and the cattle are real spooked right now. Hypnotics own website could get yanked or hurt and all it takes is some troll zealots to crash the party.

Given what happened to Kiss are producers now going to have to quiz models on their political view points before using them so they don't have to pull the videos. Kiss may have been paid directly on most her videos however the vendor still needs inventory to sell and to make up the cost of production. Imagine if something came out about Christina Carter and Hypnotic and others had to pull all her videos. So do producers now quiz the models cause of this hyperbole outrage?
Except we're not talking about Alisa just going on a march about a statue and not knowing that white supremacists were going to attend. She specifically traveled to Charlottesville with a group of white supremacists. She is actually married to a white supremacist and happily held his hand while he chanted about Jews.

She knew exactly what she was doing. No question.

Also, whether to remove a model's work is entirely at the discretion of individual producers. Alisa hasn't been "shut down hard and fast" by an organized campaign. Her webmaster used his own discretion. Individual clips4sale store owners have used their own discretion.

Surely you support the right of producers to determine whether they want to be associated with a white supremacist, don't you? You're usually very vocal about producers being able to do whatever they want.

And let's not forget that Alisa herself put this matter in the public domain by marching with white supremacists in public at an event which received global media coverage.

This is not normal politics. We're not talking about a model losing business because she attended a Republican or Democrat rally and thus alienated some of her fanbase. We're instead talking about Alisa being deeply involved with people who want to exterminate or otherwise banish every last member of certain races and religions.

There's not much producers can do about that until a model makes her extremist tendencies known publicly. (As Alisa did.) So until there's actual evidence of Christina Carter attending a Nazi rally or maliciously picketing funerals with the delightful congregation of Westsboro Baptist Church, producers should quite rightly continue to presume that she's almost certainly not an extremist.
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Given that there is no way I can respond without you and others intentionally and dishonestly labeling me a Nazi sympathizer out of fake zealousness I'm not going to bother. This is a rigged, one sided debate. Have fun with your slanted playing field.

http://dailycaller.com/2017/08/22/espn- ... e-general/

So a ASIAN AMERICAN gets his job yanked cause his name is Robert Lee. No over reaction, huh?
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Just to be crystal clear...

Is anyone suggesting that a model shouldn't get work because of holding contentious political opinions? If so, I think that's a little bit too far, and strays from political discussion to actually attempting to incite harm - not to mention a little subversive to the community, implying any of us ought to consider such things when consuming SHIP content. Content that concerns the fantasy of a strong woman being humiliated and subjected to non-consensual torture and rape. Given that we know how much that kind of fantasy can be reviled, and that the slightest whiff of it could stir a wave of disgust from the morally extreme - surely we aren't in a hurry to behave the same way with opinions we find repulsive.

Nazi is a powerful, evocative word - no doubt - and it moves someone to the far end of the 'I disagree with this person' spectrum, but it isn't enough to want to banish them from sight as punishment. Punish actions, not beliefs. We are horrified by the Nazis because of the things they did, right? Just like we are horrified by rapists and torturers of women in real life. This woman attended a rally of angry, marginalised people chanting anti-Semitic slogans; she hasn't shot or gassed anybody because of their race. There's a gulf between the two, and any attempt to equate them is essentially bigotry. Let's respect the power of the words we're wielding.

I've probably grasped the wrong end of the stick, and nobody was actually meaning to imply anything more than 'I dislike this person because they seem to believe in X' - which is fair enough.
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Ninja J.
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Gosh, it's getting harder to be an open racist these days.

Seriously though, in the grand scheme of getting my dick hard, Alisa Kiss' opinions really don't affect me one bit no matter how fucking bat shit crazy they may be. The proof is my enjoyment of Paris Dylan vids despite her views. On a human level that exists outside of this fetish, Alisa and her boyfriend are fucking disgusting human beings, and I feel no sympathy for what happens to her. She wasn't marching for tax reform. It was with a fucking White Nationalist rally. If producers don't want to work with her anymore that's the perogative of the producers.

I will say this though. It's time to choose whether or not employers can fire employees for public personal opinions. If we're okay with Alisa getting fired for her beliefs we can't be pissed off that Colin Cappernick can't find work either. If people can be fired for White Supremacist views, then a company should have the same perogative to fire flag burners or Antifa supporters. I'm not equating these, I'm just saying we are giving the greenlight for companies to fire anyone for a political opinion that may not conform with the company's values or beliefs. Are we okay with that? It's great when racists get fired but how about when Hobby Lobby fires a Pro-Choice employee? I'm not crying for these racists getting fired but we're giving companies a lot of power now. Hope we all realize the door we're opening.

I guess the moral is maybe keep your opinions to yourself or among close friends and not spew them on social media. Oh and don't attend White Nationalist Rallies.
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Mr. X wrote:
6 years ago
Given that there is no way I can respond without you and others intentionally and dishonestly labeling me a Nazi sympathizer out of fake zealousness I'm not going to bother. This is a rigged, one sided debate. Have fun with your slanted playing field.

http://dailycaller.com/2017/08/22/espn- ... e-general/

So a ASIAN AMERICAN gets his job yanked cause his name is Robert Lee. No over reaction, huh?
For someone who is supposedly trying to avoid unpleasantness, calling me a liar and a fake zealot is a strange way to go about it. Nice.

Whereas posting personal abuse and then running away isn't a one-sided debate at all. No, definitely not.
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RedMountain
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I find it somewhat odd no one was this up in arms when that one model was outed for stomping on fish in one of her porn vids and PETA, etc. pretty much got her blacklisted. I've seen her back in a few things recently, but she was out of the picture for a very long time and no one seemed to care that her business/financial well being was in jeopardy. There wasn't any uproar. I just find it odd how people cherry pick these situations instead of treating them all equally, especially when this situation is comparatively much worse.
Last edited by RedMountain 6 years ago, edited 1 time in total.
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RedMountain
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Ninja J. wrote:
6 years ago
Gosh, it's getting harder to be an open racist these days.

Seriously though, in the grand scheme of getting my dick hard, Alisa Kiss' opinions really don't affect me one bit no matter how fucking bat shit crazy they may be. The proof is my enjoyment of Paris Dylan vids despite her views. On a human level that exists outside of this fetish, Alisa and her boyfriend are fucking disgusting human beings, and I feel no sympathy for what happens to her. She wasn't marching for tax reform. It was with a fucking White Nationalist rally. If producers don't want to work with her anymore that's the perogative of the producers.

I will say this though. It's time to choose whether or not employers can fire employees for public personal opinions. If we're okay with Alisa getting fired for her beliefs we can't be pissed off that Colin Cappernick can't find work either. If people can be fired for White Supremacist views, then a company should have the same perogative to fire flag burners or Antifa supporters. I'm not equating these, I'm just saying we are giving the greenlight for companies to fire anyone for a political opinion that may not conform with the company's values or beliefs. Are we okay with that? It's great when racists get fired but how about when Hobby Lobby fires a Pro-Choice employee? I'm not crying for these racists getting fired but we're giving companies a lot of power now. Hope we all realize the door we're opening.

I guess the moral is maybe keep your opinions to yourself or among close friends and not spew them on social media. Oh and don't attend White Nationalist Rallies.
Companies have already been doing this for years and have that power, in most cases it's called at will employment. People get fired all the time for stuff they post on their "personal" facebook page outside of work, especially if a nosy co-worker gets a hold of it and shows it to their boss. A private entity doesn't have to respect your right to free speech and they've been doing this for years. It is just getting a bit easier for them now with the increase in use of social media.

Personally I never friend anyone from work on any social media platform, no matter how close we get. Been burned too many times in the past and I still remember being called into my boss' office one morning and being asked if I was quiting and/or hated my job because a co-worker took a screen shot of a facebook post I made that said "I had a real bad day today" and showed it to my boss telling them I was complaining about work. My boss asked me about it and I looked her straight in the face and said, "Well, that morning the spring on the garage door broke and I had to pay $500 to get that fixed, my cat got out of the house and ran away, and then my car got dented by hailstones, so yes, I'd say it was a bad day...and completely not work related, now are you firing me or can I go back to doing my job?" The look on her face was priceless, but that was the day I realized you cannot trust co-workers no matter how nice they are to you and you don't want your job being able to have any glimpse of your private life.
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RedMountain wrote:
6 years ago
I find it somewhat odd no one was this up in arms when that one model was outed for stomping on fish in one of her porn vids and PETA, etc. pretty much got her blacklisted. I've seen her back in a few things recently, but she was out of the picture for a very long time and no one seemed to care that her business/financial well being was in jeopardy. There wasn't any uproar. I just find it odd how people cherry pick these situations instead of treating them all equally, especially when this situation is comparatively much worse.

I remember that I agree with you but there is a little more to that story as far as producers are concerned, however it only dealt with that specific content.

Crushing animals, fish, even bugs is a big VISA/Mastercard no no and will get your site blacklisted very quickly. There is a zero-tolerance policy according to the documentation that I get from those companies. (Part of the larger BRAM violations)
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As a general rule I would like politics to stay off this forum and on LinkedIn.

I am not going to shed any tears for Kiss, but who gets to determine what is accpetible.

Google fired an engineer for stating a stupid opinion, curt shilling was fired by ESPN for something he did on his own time. Yet ESPN is blasting the NFL for not forcing a team to hired a racist QB who happens to be black
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I think it's OK if politics stays mostly in Misc. Nobody has to look at it if they don't want to. I also made a separate politics thread in the Comics forum for anyone who wants to talk about politics in comics, so they don't have to sully the many other threads in that subforum.

I didn't jump in at this particular juncture to argue, though. I came in because I'm on DeviantArt regularly (both for my erotic heroine stories under one name, and under Heroineburgh to promote the upcoming superheroine video series) and as a fan of various DA creators (such as the legendary Manic). And I noticed that just in the past 24 hours, after literally not posting anything for three years, Alisa Kiss has jumped on her DA page and responded to a bunch of her commenters, plus she seems to have 'hidden' some of the comments of her critics. She hid the comment that I made (which I don't have a problem with, it's her page) which was mostly just about being disappointed in the revelation of her views since I'd been familiar with some of her SHIP work. Well, actually...I posted a photo of my Jewish superheroine, Gardenia, and said that she was disappointed in Supergirl.... I guess she didn't really have a sense of humor about that.

Here are some of the longer comments that Alisa has made on her own site in the past day, and some even in the past hour! They clearly state her position. Take it as you will, but it's quite clear she goes beyond mere 'culturalism' to somewhat of a defense of racial purity, so she seems like a white supremacist to me, which is more extreme and much less defensible than, say, the more nuanced perspective of advocating the advantages of Western Civilization (a position that I personally find some sympathy with, as far as superheroines and comic books are concerned!). Anyway there's no question she's got some staunch right-wing views.

" I don't hate anyone and the way I personally feel has nothing to do with "supremacy." There are differences in race, and it seems to acknowledge that itself is to be screamed at to be "RACIST!!!" I just think we are all different and thats' awesome. How boring would the world be if we were all exactly the same? I've loved and had best friendships with people of all colors and sexualities and faiths and this is well documented. If you're ok with whites disappearing off the planet and believe whites "deserve it because they've been evil throughout history" you are not someone I want as a fan or friend any way. We all deserve to exist. If you don't understand how white countries are under threat of non existence soon, educate yourself perhaps. I can't do it for you. Sweden is already no longer Sweden. European culture is being replaced and erased and it is sad to those who love it."

"I'll come back in time. Thanks. Yeah, pretty sure that's why I was chosen to focus articles on and attack even though I was really just there with some other people and wanted to hear the speeches and was ok with protesting the monument removal. I know people will argue about why we should keep confederate monuments up, but if we don't protect them, where will it stop after that? How much more of our American history "offends" someone somewhere and will have to be destroyed? America has gone insane. I'm glad they got their wonderful story about the "KKK NAZI SUPERGIRL" that has an angry mob after my blood now. lol. "

"whatevsdude 6 days ago New Deviant
Your cosplaying is on point and you have all the right to do whatever you want and hold whatever opinions you want, regardless of what some of those harassing you say. Don't let the haters get to you, just because what you're thinking they consider 'hate speech'. Cheers :)
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AlisaKiss 58 minutes ago
Thanks so much

"Alisa, I'm Black and while I don't always agree with the methods or even things said by everyone, I respect people's right to express their opinion so long as they don't hurt anyone and that includes you. People can disagree with you and not want to associate with you but to go to the lengths they did was not right.
AlisaKiss 1 hour ago
Wow, an intelligent and sane person! Lol. Thank you so much and for speaking so much truth. You hit a lot of nails on the head."

Her Red Sonja pics are pretty amazing though I must admit..I have a weakness for that hot Frazetta-esque barbarian stuff :)
Must...remember...she's...Baroness...von...Gunther....in..disguise....
red_sonja_at_dragon_con_2015_by_alisakiss-d99t5dc.jpg
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batgirl1969
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I am curious...is there anything she could do at this point to recover from this? What would it take to regain if even possible a relationship and on a positive level with people she has estranged by being part of all this. A public apology? Abandoning her current friends and family? Or something even more drastic like a video of her doing things she would never have imagined?
Just curious
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batgirl1969 wrote:
6 years ago
I am curious...is there anything she could do at this point to recover from this? What would it take to regain if even possible a relationship and on a positive level with people she has estranged by being part of all this. A public apology? Abandoning her current friends and family? Or something even more drastic like a video of her doing things she would never have imagined?
Just curious
Forgive my cynicism , but people have a short attention span.

On both ends of the spectrum, people get 2nd and 3rd chances
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Dazzle1 wrote:
6 years ago
batgirl1969 wrote:
6 years ago
I am curious...is there anything she could do at this point to recover from this? What would it take to regain if even possible a relationship and on a positive level with people she has estranged by being part of all this. A public apology? Abandoning her current friends and family? Or something even more drastic like a video of her doing things she would never have imagined?
Just curious
Forgive my cynicism , but people have a short attention span.

On both ends of the spectrum, people get 2nd and 3rd chances
I think people have WEIRD attention spans. For SOME things we forget them right away, some things we remember far longer than there is any sense in remembering, but in this case I expect you are probably right. Three months from now nobody will remember or care why they were annoyed with (or sympathized with) Alis, and America being all about equality and freedom should hopefully allow her to continue working wherever and however she chooses to do it.

I don't agree with her political views, I'll call them outright wrong when I believe they are and if someone wanted to start a war to enforce them I'd strongly consider fighting against them..... but so long as they are just word, I'll disagree with them and contend that she's still an American and deserving of the same treatment and opportunities as every other American. Expressing an opinion, no matter how repugnant, is protected under free speech and should be for reasons history has gone to great lengths to prove to us time and time again.
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Femina wrote:
6 years ago
Dazzle1 wrote:
6 years ago
batgirl1969 wrote:
6 years ago
I am curious...is there anything she could do at this point to recover from this? What would it take to regain if even possible a relationship and on a positive level with people she has estranged by being part of all this. A public apology? Abandoning her current friends and family? Or something even more drastic like a video of her doing things she would never have imagined?
Just curious
Forgive my cynicism , but people have a short attention span.

On both ends of the spectrum, people get 2nd and 3rd chances
I think people have WEIRD attention spans. For SOME things we forget them right away, some things we remember far longer than there is any sense in remembering, but in this case I expect you are probably right. Three months from now nobody will remember or care why they were annoyed with (or sympathized with) Alis, and America being all about equality and freedom should hopefully allow her to continue working wherever and however she chooses to do it.

I don't agree with her political views, I'll call them outright wrong when I believe they are and if someone wanted to start a war to enforce them I'd strongly consider fighting against them..... but so long as they are just word, I'll disagree with them and contend that she's still an American and deserving of the same treatment and opportunities as every other American. Expressing an opinion, no matter how repugnant, is protected under free speech and should be for reasons history has gone to great lengths to prove to us time and time again.
It is up to individual.

I boycott Citgo and anyone who supports BDS. But that is my choice.
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Good for you, Dazzle, especially regarding the BDS bullshit. :)
However, you should update your political stance...in the past year, the far left's focus has moved away from BDS to something called 'anti-normalization' http://www.jta.org/2017/07/18/news-opin ... ying-about
As an informed Jew, I'm up on this stuff.

It's the same kind of thing Antifa believes: that all rightwing tendencies, however slight or even passive (and this includes 'free speech' types, nationalists, and so on) need to be fought and opposed everywhere with maximum strenuousness and force. To these types of ideologically strident individuals, 'normalization' is the idea that people are OK (which, in fact, 54% of Americans are, according to Reuters) with confederate statues just staying where they are. So Antifa and their ilk are 'anti-normalization'. It's some serious fucking doublespeak.
Last edited by shevek 6 years ago, edited 1 time in total.
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Femina wrote:
6 years ago

I think people have WEIRD attention spans. For SOME things we forget them right away, some things we remember far longer than there is any sense in remembering, but in this case I expect you are probably right. Three months from now nobody will remember or care why they were annoyed with (or sympathized with) Alis, and America being all about equality and freedom should hopefully allow her to continue working wherever and however she chooses to do it.

I don't agree with her political views, I'll call them outright wrong when I believe they are and if someone wanted to start a war to enforce them I'd strongly consider fighting against them..... but so long as they are just word, I'll disagree with them and contend that she's still an American and deserving of the same treatment and opportunities as every other American. Expressing an opinion, no matter how repugnant, is protected under free speech and should be for reasons history has gone to great lengths to prove to us time and time again.
In most cases, a racist rant or a bad decision can be put down to a "moment of madness" and everyone can move on from it. It usually helps if the disgraced person was under the influence of drink or drugs at the time. In Alisa's case, however, she has soberly and knowingly doubled-down on the rhetoric about whites needing to fight back against encroachment - which she equates to genocide - from other races.

Being so easily triggered into ranting about white genocide on social media makes her even more of a liability.

Fact check: Sweden is still Sweden.

Holland, however, is now called Clogopolis and has banned all non-wooden footwear. Even for fire-fighters.
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At the end of the day, we live on a tiny speck in a massive sand pit called the universe. The fact we still have a problem with skin colour only means we have a long way to go before truly being allowed to boast about being enlightened. Unlike Clogopolis of course, how realised wooden footwear is the future.
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The bottom line is that she has the freedom to associate herself with any cause or group of people of her choosing. Alisa's dilemma is that regarding her line of work (unfortunately for her) she directly relies on the good will of the general public (customers) in order to support herself financially. When one relies on the good will of the general public, and then does something incredibly unpopular and ill-conceived, she must accept the consequences of aligning herself with such causes. Just as she has made her choices, the general public is also free to make their voices heard in regards to whether or not to give her any business.
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Bleeding Cool has given Alisa the opportunity to tell her side of the story.

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2017/08/30 ... lisa-kiss/

Claiming that she doesn't know anything about the Southern Nationalists seems more than a little disingenuous after her detailed justification for the group's chants of "Blood and soil".

She portrays herself as a victim of the lying media. Even though arguably the most damning aspects were direct and unedited quotes from her own social media posts.

Not sure why Alisa thought it was important to mention that her white supremacist friends are Christians? As if that makes them better somehow. The crowd from Westboro Baptist Church are Christians too. (Obviously.) As are the KKK. Hell, most of the original Nazis were Christians. Belonging to a particular religion doesn't automatically make someone a good person. Or a bad person, for that matter. It's whether the individual uses scripture to justify ideological prejudice that matters.

In other news, Alisa now has a vocal supporter within the cosplay community. And he's a Holocaust denier. Perhaps the worst possible supporter to have in her corner. The guy who peddles disgusting conspiracy theories about there being no gas chambers. The guy who literally stated that a Nazi concentration camp sounds like one of the safest places to be during World War II.

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2017/08/20 ... -designer/
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Not sure why they are so keen on the flag of the Kriegsmarine in that bleeding cool article, but hey ho. Maybe they all wanna be sailor boys.
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As another Jew and Kinkster, I have to put my two cents in.

Both sides hate Jews.

But right now I feel groups like Antifa and BLM are more of a threat because they have more power and many feel they are not a danger.

The Neo Nazi KKK are recognized as evil by almost everyone
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I wonder if she were to do an apology video or something like that would allow her to really let people know she is not a racist? Has she ever done any interracial videos? Maybe thats exactly what she should do....
Down here at Dragoncon a few people in the cosplay circle are talking about her...doubt if she is here this weekend.
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Dazzle1 wrote:
6 years ago
As another Jew and Kinkster, I have to put my two cents in.

Both sides hate Jews.

But right now I feel groups like Antifa and BLM are more of a threat because they have more power and many feel they are not a danger.

The Neo Nazi KKK are recognized as evil by almost everyone
I totally agree with you regarding Antifa and BLM being more of a threat than Neo Nazi KKK. The reason for that of course is that while the mainstream media rightly condemns the Neo Nazi KKK groups for their hate filled actions and rhetoric, conversely, they treat Antifa and BLM with kid gloves. The media for the most part is loathed to criticize groups on the left because they feel these groups are natural allies in their quest to push their collective left wing agenda, that they would prefer not to kill the goose that lays the proverbial golden egg.
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Another group to worry about shutting down our genre: Third wave feminists

This is fantasy but a majority of the material has Male domination or Lesbian domination

You can bet this group would object to that, even if the producer was a woman.
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Great discussion, my friends! See..we CAN be civil and we can keep it in the political thread zone :)

The way I see it, the current political scene is NOT a struggle between right and left, or a struggle between the West and Islam, or between capitalism and Marxism etc. It's a struggle between moderates of all stripes and extremists of all stripes - Moderation and Extremism. Period.
Moderates of all stripes have elements which bring them together as allies..and so do the extremists. Even the Nazis, Antifa, and ISIS literally agree on a few basic things: using thuggish violence, hating Jews, hating America (as it now stands, as a world empire), and a few other aspects too, like hating pornography, and suppressing the opinions of anyone who doesn't agree. Moderates don't believe in any of those things. So that, I feel, is where the real lines are drawn - between those reasonable centrist (or moderate left/moderate right) individuals who can listen to other people's opinions and form a nuanced (or some might say, "bland") perspective), vs. those who only live in their own ideological echo chambers and can brook no compromise whatsoever.

Dazzle, there are different kinds of third-wave feminists. The kind that get the most attention are the loudmouthed strident kind. They are the ones who launch vehement Internet crusades. They are the ones allied with Antifa (and by the way if you've seen the backlash against Antifa in the past few days from liberal Democrats and even some media organs, you'd know they are not getting a free ride anymore..so neither should their far-left allies!).

But then there is also the significant "sex-positive" offshoot who are fine with things being sexy and even played onscreen as "nonconsensual" as long as it's just acting and it's made clear that all parties consented IRL (there's actually a whole different thread about this on the forum, you may have read it already).

The difference is that the sex-positive feminists are fairly quiet and just do their sexy things. Probably many of them make money doing it, too, because a good number of them are sex-workers or fetish content producers or creators of sexy lgbt comics and so on. While the strident neo-Puritan third-wave types (the ones ruining Marvel Comics, for example), who are the figurative successors to the 'Dworkinist' anti-porn wing of second-wave feminism fro the 70s, yammer about oppression all day and night while doing actually very little about it.

But yes, Dazzle, I don't think third-wave feminism is just a bogeyman (bogeyperson?). I mean look at how quickly Antifa's star has risen - nobody in the mainstream knew what the hell Antifa was a year ago (I knew, though. Antifas have been bothering me for quite a few years). And look at how quickly the backlash happened with Alisa Kiss and spread across the Internet etc. If there was some kind of scandal or incident involving SHIP, and strident third-wave Sarkeesian-esque SJWs caught wind of it, there could definitely be long-term trouble for the scene. Let's just try to make sure that doesn't happen, eh? :)
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Shevek:

My understanding of third wave feminists are: the ones who want to do things like change history to herstory, believe that if a man is accused of rape his guilty, that all the problem are due to white male entitlement.

People have been warning about Antifa for several years and their allies Black Lives Matter

I agree with you about the extremists on both side but many on the moderate left are turning a blind eye to the leftist extremists.
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Dazzle1 wrote:
6 years ago
Shevek:

My understanding of third wave feminists are: the ones who want to do things like change history to herstory, believe that if a man is accused of rape his guilty, that all the problem are due to white male entitlement.

People have been warning about Antifa for several years and their allies Black Lives Matter

I agree with you about the extremists on both side but many on the moderate left are turning a blind eye to the leftist extremists.
Can't say that's unique? I mean how many rightwing moderates ignore the increasingly 'rich lives first' mentality of the rightwing extremists? As always no 'absolute' is preferable to a middleground of many ideas. MOST Americans aren't rich (that's an understatement) so hard rightwing politics don't help them, MOST americans also don't ACTUALLY want to be told exactly what to do like we were infants and the government our parents, which is what the hard leftwing wants to do... but if ONE of them had to win, by and large most people want the one that will actually take care of them, and while leftest extremism is sort of controlling, at least it won't let me starve, whereas rightwing extremism will only take care of me if I make gobtons of money etc. etc.

The same can be said of every subgroup. 'extremist' third wave femninists aren't good. Extremist Black Lives Matter supporters aren't good.............. but most people aren't extremists, so the things they believe in aren't extreme and fall somewhere closer to the middle ground in which its easier to turn a blind eye to the bad in something that might take care of them than it is to lend any sort of credence or support to something that absolutely will not.
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Femina wrote:
6 years ago
Dazzle1 wrote:
6 years ago
Shevek:

My understanding of third wave feminists are: the ones who want to do things like change history to herstory, believe that if a man is accused of rape his guilty, that all the problem are due to white male entitlement.

People have been warning about Antifa for several years and their allies Black Lives Matter

I agree with you about the extremists on both side but many on the moderate left are turning a blind eye to the leftist extremists.
Can't say that's unique? I mean how many rightwing moderates ignore the increasingly 'rich lives first' mentality of the rightwing extremists? As always no 'absolute' is preferable to a middleground of many ideas. MOST Americans aren't rich (that's an understatement) so hard rightwing politics don't help them, MOST americans also don't ACTUALLY want to be told exactly what to do like we were infants and the government our parents, which is what the hard leftwing wants to do... but if ONE of them had to win, by and large most people want the one that will actually take care of them, and while leftest extremism is sort of controlling, at least it won't let me starve, whereas rightwing extremism will only take care of me if I make gobtons of money etc. etc.

The same can be said of every subgroup. 'extremist' third wave femninists aren't good. Extremist Black Lives Matter supporters aren't good.............. but most people aren't extremists, so the things they believe in aren't extreme and fall somewhere closer to the middle ground in which its easier to turn a blind eye to the bad in something that might take care of them than it is to lend any sort of credence or support to something that absolutely will not.
How are you definening Right Wing extremists? Would be interested

To me it would be Nazis, KKK Westboro Baptist Church

It would not be the Koch Brothers or Paul Ryan
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