Captain Marvel news

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Re: Captain Marvel news

Post by Dogfish »

shevek wrote: 4 years ago
Dogfish wrote: 4 years ago
Dazzle1 wrote: 4 years ago So we can expect Rotten Tomatoes to have a high score from self assigned critics and low scores from the fans just like Discovery and DW.
What sort of fans obsessively go to review aggregate sites to shit on movies?
Well, at this point, nearly 35,000 of them who have dropped Captain Marvel's "want to see" rate down to a stunningly low 33%.

Don't kill the messenger please :)

In the meantime, our hometown heroine Larissa is less than halfway to her GoFundMe goal with under 2 weeks left.

P.S. Somebody just posted an entire Captain Marvel plot synopsis on Reddit using information that was supposedly gleaned from the Chinese
social media service Douban. Not sure how accurate that could be.
They're not fans though are they? I mean if they're attempting to damage the reception a movie gets for political reasons that doesn't make somebody a fan.

What we've got here is a movie being targeted by reactionaries on social media. That is their right, free speech and all, but let's not pretend they are fans of anything or that they represent anything.
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Re: Captain Marvel news

Post by shevek »

I would highly disagree with your statement - most of all the inclusion of the term "anything" - and let me explain why.

I think a lot of the "reactionaries" (as you would call them) are fans to quite an incredible degree. But what they are fans of is simply not the version of Captain Marvel depicted in the movie. They are fans of various other versions of Carol Danvers before 2014. They are fans of the black female Captain Marvel, Monica Rambeau (Photon/Spectrum etc.). They are fans of Mar-Vell, the Kree and Skrull Empires, the whole Marvel Universe before 2014. They are fans of many other powerful superheroines in general, and fans of other movies that depict powerful superheroines, such as Wonder Woman, the X-Men movies, Aquaman, Ant-Man and Wasp (which as I recall created almost no pushback) and now Alita Battle Angel. They are fans of Ghostbusters before 2016, Star Wars before The Last Jedi, Star Trek before Discovery, She-Ra before Noelle Stevenson, Doctor Who before Jodie Whitaker, and so on. Many of these objectors are some of the most loyal and meticulous fans that many franchises and comicbook universes ever had, and they have made this abundantly clear in thousands of Youtube videos (some might call this approach "weaponized autism").

And I would bet that even the average incel manbaby (or whatever insult the media shills want to throw at them) can quote chapter and verse on a million comicbook and sci-fi references that quite a lot of the fairweather social-justice cheerleaders who are doing the GoFundMes have never even remotely heard of. These are the kind of fan folks who have been attending Comicons all of their lives. And they would also say, in response to your statement about "political reasons", that changing universes and origin stories and beloved characters for "political reasons" (such as has been aptly demonstrated with Captain Marvel, more than any movie in recent memory) is what got all of them to "react" in the first place. Chicken and egg.

I have plenty of progressive beliefs and yet I can still understand and sympathize with this dilemma. It boggles my mind that there are those who are so ideologically strident in their ways who just can't wrap their heads around a compromise that appeals to all (exhibit A: Alita Battle Angel). For me, Dogfish, Heroineburgh is the vehicle I created to do just that. My series has not been attacked (so far) by any extremists on either side of the ideological aisle because it is "unapologetically" (as the kids like to say) centrist and demonstrably so. We have a Republican millionaire superheroine who believes women should use capitalism to succeed *and* we have a black superheroine who battles gentrification in her neighborhood..and so on.

But there's one thing I'm glad that we agree on - it's that free speech exercised is a wonderful thing, and it should never be abrogated or censored.
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Re: Captain Marvel news

Post by Femina »

"fans" isn't a catchall phrase. You aren't a fan of a thing you are ridiculing and directing hate toward. Maybe you were a fan of what it once was, you aren't a fan of what it now is. It's fine to fall in and out of fandoms... its fine to be dissapointed when a fandom leaves your wants behind and to express your desire for it to stay the same in hopes its creators will hear theres still an audience for it.

It's NOT fine to direct a hate campaign at something you haven't seen yet because it isn't advertised to be what you wanted it to be. It's also not fine to be so pissed off that someone told you to piss off when you told them to smile more that you actively work to sabotage their art ala these extremist youtuber idiots.
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Re: Captain Marvel news

Post by shevek »

Again, I must object, because you are parsing everything too finely, as if nothing is connected, as if this movie stands by itself with no precedent and no history. That is, in fact, what hardline progressives tend to do: rewrite, erase and/or ignore the history of a thing so that they can overlay Current Year corrective (and censorious) ideology on top of it.

Captain Marvel is, in fact, something that has been "seen" in abundance. I just listed a bunch of cultural precedents in general. But if you want to get specific with that particular IP, these fans (and yes they are fans) have seen four years of what Captain Marvel is, as embodied in all the comics from the Kelly Sue DeConnick reboot (because that's exactly what it was, in 2012) on down, and all of the other Marvel post-2014 activity connected with it which Kevin Feige promises in the next phase of the MCU. The most astute fans are well aware that the movies will soon reflect what the comics have been weaponizing since 2014. And they disagree with it. So all of this is something that fans HAVE SEEN ALREADY.

I now direct you to The Phases of a Geeker Gate...Plus Countermeasures. You probably won't enjoy reading it. That's OK.

https://disneystarwarsisdumb.wordpress. ... rmeasures/

Or let's put it another way that a progressive can understand: you can be a fan of representative democracy in general, and of the American system of government in particular. And yet you can also generate a hate campaign against the person who currently leads that very system of government. And that's perfectly allowed - because free speech exists in this society.
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Re: Captain Marvel news

Post by Femina »

shevek wrote: 4 years ago Captain Marvel is, in fact, something that has been "seen" in abundance. I just listed a bunch of cultural precedents in general. But if you want to get specific with that particular IP, these fans (and yes they are fans) have seen four years of what Captain Marvel is, as embodied in all the comics from the Kelly Sue DeConnick reboot (because that's exactly what it was, in 2012) on down, and all of the other Marvel post-2014 activity connected with it which Kevin Feige promises in the next phase of the MCU. The most astute fans are well aware that the movies will soon reflect what the comics have been weaponizing since 2014. And they disagree with it. So all of this is something that fans HAVE SEEN ALREADY.
Fans of Miss Marvel, not fans of Captain Marvel. I like Stephanie Brown as Batgirl, I was a fan of The return of Barbara at the start of the new 52... I was NOT a fan of 'selfie Batgirl'. I stopped being a fan of Batgirl. Maybe I'll be a fan again someday. I've grown to old and jaded as things have come to disapoint me to accept that anything unfinished is likely to be capable of definitively maintaining my fandom to infinity. I'm not speaking broadly or as if nothings connected. I'm simply speaking 'definitively' that the people promoting boycotts of the film are not Fans of the film. They are the opposite of fans of the film. Elements of society to whom the film can never reach or hope to reach, who have set themselves into this space, which is why the film makers are not going out of their way to advertise to them or suck up to them. Setting up boycotts and expressing ones interest to excise oneself from the financial element of the MCU isn't going to be an effective way of making oneself heard by the MCU unless the MCU starts hemoraging capitol, which it currently is not. Because it currently has many fans, because it has thus far successfully managed to gain more fans than it has lost.
shevek wrote: 4 years ago Or let's put it another way that a progressive can understand: you can be a fan of representative democracy in general, and of the American system of government in particular. And yet you can also generate a hate campaign against the person who currently leads that very system of government. And that's perfectly allowed - because free speech exists in this society.
This was never in doubt? The myth that progressives want your precious free speech is a myth. Progressives enjoy Free speech just as much as everyone else does. Putting it in THOSE direct terms isn't exactly conducive to a conversation about anything though is it? 'Everyone has freedom to say whatever they want...' doesn't make the world a better place or even a good one. They have the freedom of speech to whine, I have the freedom of speech to tell them that their whining is irritating me as much as they appear to be irritated. People choosing to say things they want to say, and people heartily choosing not to take offense to those things is the only way anything will ever get better, and I frankly DO NOT BELIEVE it will ever occur, especially with the sorts of nonsense that goes about on youtube over a film that none of them have even seen. Forget what they'll say about it after, even if it is well and truly terrible and criticism is warented, THIS is how the world conducted itself BEFORE THEY EVEN SAW IT.

Anyway boycott the film if you like (Not you specifically shevek just people in general), if the movie fails, I'll blame all of you for ruining female lead MCU films for another decade, I'll have that right with free speech after all.

P.S. Fuck Donald Trump
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Re: Captain Marvel news

Post by lionbadger »

shevek wrote: 4 years ago The most astute fans are well aware that the movies will soon reflect what the comics have been weaponizing since 2014. And they disagree with it. So all of this is something that fans HAVE SEEN ALREADY.
Fans are the greatest threat to any product, comic, film, music. About 80% of fans become fans of a set thing and freak out if they don't get that thing over and over again, hence why batman always has the same set pieces crowbarred in and spiderman always wastes hours on how he became spiderman (which I guess is why Marvel ignored it because they weren't looking to please 'fans' of spiderman they were targeting MCU people).

Look at Star Wars, the "fans" don't understand the universe, they just want to see New Hope over and over again (but maybe extend to 40 minute light sabre battle cause that's Star Wars right).

Look at this thread, it's been raging for months now over "fans" who want to see their Ms Marvel or what the people who drove the 90s comic book bubble that dumped Marvel into bankruptcy want.

A "fan" is a follower, a jihadi, Shevek is right on that point, but it cuts both ways and I think while that sort of person can be useful for comics who pander to small groups that the MCU broadly ignores them and aims for really quite simple mass market stories of normal person gets power to fight (as opposed to DC/WB which makes more of a "What's it like to be a God" movie)
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Re: Captain Marvel news

Post by viking »

I will buy a ticket and judge the movie based upon what I see. I don't pay attention to rumor, speculation and gossip.
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Re: Captain Marvel news

Post by ksire_99 »

viking wrote: 4 years ago I will buy a ticket and judge the movie based upon what I see. I don't pay attention to rumor, speculation and gossip.
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Re: Captain Marvel news

Post by theScribbler »

The hissy fits of trolls draws attention from the star of another upcoming superhero movie. :thumbup:

https://www.syfy.com/syfywire/shazam-st ... ain-marvel

from syfy.com:
___________________________________________
Surprising no one in the history of anything ever, there's an angry contingent of "fans" upset over a Marvel movie with a woman in the leading role coming out. Or, they’re upset that said star of that movie championed and pushed for more diversity in film journalism. 

Whatever the reason, these people are throwing a massive online hissy fit, taking to review aggregating site Rotten Tomatoes to make Captain Marvel’s“want to see” rating the lowest in the history of the Marvel Cinematic Universe.

Conventional wisdom seems to show this onslaught of negativity was brought about from comments Captain Marvel star Brie Larson made in an interview with Marie Claire about wanting to have more diversity among the journalists who interview her.

Whatever the cause for the online trolling, one man (a hero, or quite possibly, a reasonable adult) is telling all these upset dudes: Knock it off! 

Shazam! star Zachary Levi posted a two-minute video saying these dumb shenanigans have got to stop and are helping nobody. (The video presumably came from a live stream, though it isn’t currently posted on Levi’s Instagram or Twitter accounts. Supernatural star Jared Padalecki gave Levi kudos, to which Levi replied on Twitter, taking credit for the video.) 

“For anyone out there who thinks you’re doing me a favor or Shazam! a favor, or you’re doing Warner Bros. [a favor], you’re not,” said Levi in the video. “This is not helping anyone or anything.”

Looking utterly bewildered that this is actually happening or that he actually has to state something so self-evident, Levi went on to add that although yes, Shazam used to be called Captain Marvel waaaaay back in the olden days before cinematic universes or Rotten Tomatoes or SYFY WIRE, “there is no competition” and “there is no conspiracy.”

“Anyone out there who’s holding onto some bone like they need to pick a side and pick a fight is sorely mistaken,” he said. “Don’t go and engage in that type of behavior anymore.”

Noting that going online to engage in these kind of low blows are, to him, “the bottom of the barrel,” Levi concluded: “To be lying in an attempt to discredit or defame somebody is really sad.”

Despite what the trolls are attempting, Captain Marvel continues to test well and is projected to start off at $100 million or more during its opening weekend. So, it appears as though these folks who are upset because something something no girls allowed may be unsuccessful in bringing this movie down with their disingenuous bad reviews. 

We’ll all see for ourselves when Captain Marvel hits theatres on March 8. And not too long after that, Shazam! opens on April 5.
___________________________________________
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Re: Captain Marvel news

Post by theScribbler »

shevek wrote: 4 years ago
Dogfish wrote: 4 years ago
Dazzle1 wrote: 4 years ago So we can expect Rotten Tomatoes to have a high score from self assigned critics and low scores from the fans just like Discovery and DW.
What sort of fans obsessively go to review aggregate sites to shit on movies?
Well, at this point, nearly 35,000 of them who have dropped Captain Marvel's "want to see" rate down to a stunningly low 33%.

Don't kill the messenger please :)

In the meantime, our hometown heroine Larissa is less than halfway to her GoFundMe goal with under 2 weeks left.

P.S. Somebody just posted an entire Captain Marvel plot synopsis on Reddit using information that was supposedly gleaned from the Chinese
social media service Douban. Not sure how accurate that could be.
Rotten Tomatoes score in this case is most likely a troll programmers hacker script. RT will probably figure this out soon and do something.
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Re: Captain Marvel news

Post by shevek »

And...they just did! The RT Want to See score went down as low as 27% until about an hour or so ago, then the whole thing got wiped out.

They've eliminated the Want to See percentage entirely, and now they're only listing the total number of people who Want to See the movie, while not listing anyone who doesn't.

This happened DIRECTLY because of Captain Marvel. And by that I mean, it could have happened any time in the past few years, motivated by the lopsidedness of critic vs audience scores in any number of movies and TV shows, but they specifically did it because of CM. So was it really 'hackers' that brought the Want to See rating to a close (our friend Jessi Milestone doesn't think so) or was it Warner Bros (which owns Rotten Tomatoes, did you know that?) mandating this change so that it doesn't seem unduly biased against an MCU film?

The incidence of Zachary Levi, a Warner Brothers employee, coming out and making a statement against the 'trolls' doesn't seem like a coincidence on the very same day RT takes down audiences' ability to actively attack an upcoming movie, does it? If anything, I'm pretty sure WB realizes the same thing could also be done to Shazam.

http://editorial.rottentomatoes.com/art ... e-changes/

If you notice the responses to these changes at the bottom of the article, readers had six possible emojis to click on to demonstrate their sentiment to the piece...and the overwhelming majority (over 70%) chose the 'angry' emoji. Do you think that's a 'hacker script' as well?
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Re: Captain Marvel news

Post by Femina »

Oh Rotton Tomatoes. You cesspool of unknowable social experiments you. Couldn't be more obvious that the outrage spiral had gone to far. When you've got thirty youtubers posting up SEPARATE VIDEOS for EVERY PERCENTILE that Captain Marvel drops you've tipped your hand on the smear campaign. Don't know if I'd have bothered changing the system if I was RT... maybe Marvel paid them to. At this point I don't really care. Someones got to plunge the septic tank or we all end up covered in shit.

None of this changes that the behavior is being perpetrated primarily by youtuber man babies.
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Re: Captain Marvel news

Post by Imagineer »

shevek wrote: 4 years ago They've eliminated the Want to See percentage entirely, and now they're only listing the total number of people who Want to See the movie, while not listing anyone who doesn't.
Good. About damn time.
This happened DIRECTLY because of Captain Marvel. And by that I mean, it could have happened any time in the past few years, motivated by the lopsidedness of critic vs audience scores in any number of movies and TV shows, but they specifically did it because of CM.
Lopsidedness of critic vs audience scores isn't damaging to the Rotten Tomatoes brand.
Perception that audience scores are manipulated by activists is damaging to the Rotten Tomatoes brand.

No more elaborate conspiracies needed. Occam's Razor.

Rotten Tomatoes is owned by Fandango; Comcast (NBCU) owns 70%, Warner Bros 30%.
http://editorial.rottentomatoes.com/art ... e-changes/

If you notice the responses to these changes at the bottom of the article, readers had six possible emojis to click on to demonstrate their sentiment to the piece...and the overwhelming majority (over 70%) chose the 'angry' emoji. Do you think that's a 'hacker script' as well?
Of course people denied the ability to downvote will find the nearest adjacent mechanism. And those who find that mechanism unsatisfactory will no doubt take to YouTube for more venting. But most Rotten Tomatoes visitors will shrug and move on. Brand protection mission accomplished.
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Re: Captain Marvel news

Post by theScribbler »

Not the same day, Shevek.

On Fri, Feb 22, Shazam's Director Devid F. Sandberg tweeted



2 days later, Sun, Feb 24 morning seems to be when Zachary made his defense of CM phone video. (May have been earlier, not sure.)

Late Mon, Feb 25, is when RT made adjustment to their site to counter Trolls disinformation campaign.

Sure, RT probably did this cause of the unprecedented self-wounded manbaby way-out-of-proportion disinformation campaign driven by numerous manbaby youtuber & sites that have propagated complete & utter lies about what Brie actually said. It's a total Putin would-be-proud type hit job. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor ignored by evildoers who have perpetrated the highest propaganda levels the internet has to offer. Hell awaits those losers, but RT had to do something sooner.

So at the moment I just looked, 711 manbabies are angry emojis. Sad, little ones. More hurt manbabies will click angry and it'll probably go way up when the hacker(s) gets notice of this and find a way to click angry emoji 30,000 times. The manbabies mean war. What they really need to do is get lives.
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Re: Captain Marvel news

Post by Imagineer »

It's a pretty sure thing that Marvel will put up big enough box office numbers to call it a success, and that other folks will have tea leaves they can read as failure.

Meanwhile, the #CaptainMarvelChallenge funds struggle. I've been watching the Pittsburgh and Flint campaigns in particular. (The Flint campaign organizer did successful campaigns for A Wrinkle In Time and Black Panther.) They have forward momentum but not enough.

Sure, on the scale of worthy causes it's modest -- Syrian refugees are suffering through a brutal winter, and people are probably going hungry in your neck of the woods -- but it might give you a good feeling to help a kid see a superheroine kick ass on the big screen.
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Re: Captain Marvel news

Post by Bert »

Marvel finally made an MCU film starring a woman. The actress used the platform to address some inequalities within the industry, arguing for more seats at the table that offered a more diverse perspective. That's what's behind this pathetic shitstorm. White males going wild with righteous indignation over increased inclusion. Sad.
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Re: Captain Marvel news

Post by Femina »

Funny how all those people who went bananas over Captain Marvel's falling RT score as evidence that the film was doomed for failure are the same people who constantly are calling out RT as a bandwagon for conspiracists to up vote films they think are bad. Historically a campaign to shit on something is many times easier to coordinate than a campaign to uplift a thing... you know since one requires some muscle and effort and the other only necessitates you squat and release.
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Re: Captain Marvel news

Post by lionbadger »

Imagineer wrote: 4 years ago
Lopsidedness of critic vs audience scores isn't damaging to the Rotten Tomatoes brand.
Perception that audience scores are manipulated by activists is damaging to the Rotten Tomatoes brand.

No more elaborate conspiracies needed. Occam's Razor.
Bit mental that this even needs to be pointed out
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Re: Captain Marvel news

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It's quite telling to me when IGNs comment board... a comment board that ordinarily goes nearly 100% OUT OF ITS FREAKING MIND any time anything censors itself or folds to any kind of social pressure is only about 30% angry about this. Goes to show peoples overall trust in Marvel that this film is going to be great and doesn't need a bunch of spoiled ass manbabies sabotaging it out of sheer malicious SEXIST spite.

"Oh but Wonder Woman didn't get any of this....." yeah, that's because Gal Godot acted like the the demure delicate princess they wanted her to off camera. She didn't say or do anything that challenged their worldview or she absolutely would have got this, and it STILL would have had fuck all to do with the movie. Apparently any time a woman famous enough speaks her mind, its a big fucking deal and has to be punished and we should all just do as we are told so as to avoid upsetting the 'safe spaces" of our male betters.

....................

Apologies to all men (especially you white men) out there who are better than this. I'm so sorry you have to deal with people like this making you look bad.
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Re: Captain Marvel news

Post by GeekyPornCritic »

Bert wrote: 4 years ago Marvel finally made an MCU film starring a woman. The actress used the platform to address some inequalities within the industry, arguing for more seats at the table that offered a more diverse perspective. That's what's behind this pathetic shitstorm. White males going wild with righteous indignation over increased inclusion. Sad.
I agree with Brie Larson on adding a more diverse perspective. More people of color and women should be included in the industry.

However, Brie's approach was wrong. It's never good to say "I want less people of a race" and "I don't care what old white men think". First, a person's demographics do not lessen their opinion on a movie. Second, it is never good to have less people of a race. Should there be less white people? No. Should there be more people of color? Yes The best solution is to simply add people of color, and not remove any white people.

Captain Marvel is not the first female superheroine movie. Wonder woman was a major success. I think Brie should focus on talking about her character. Captain Marvel is deeper than just a woman. Who is she? What makes her a great heroine?
Last edited by GeekyPornCritic 4 years ago, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Captain Marvel news

Post by lionbadger »

GeekyPornCritic wrote: 4 years ago First, a person's demographics do not lessen their opinion on a movie. Second, it is never good to have less people of a race. Should there be less white people? No. Should there be more people of color? Yes The best solution is to simply add people of color, and not remove any white people.

Another problem is she acts as if she is the first female lead in a superheroine movie. Excuse me, Wonder Woman beat her to the punch. Wonder Woman was a hit so Captain Marvel or Brie do not need to focus so much on her sex, and need to focus on her character's strong qualities. It would be as if Lebron James acted as if he was the first black man in the NBA.
Demographics do matter. News shows and politics (almost inseparable) are dominated by old people and old white men in particular. Now, I'm not a young man but even I'm struggling not to sigh when these yesteryear fucks pop up to start bleating about how I should i.e. deal with an evonomy that they have no clue about.

You completely contradict your first point about demographics in your second point, the one that says Brie Larsson needs to shut up about women because there has been 1 female lead superhero movie in the last 10 years but admittedly none from alleged SJW Marvel, so she should be happy with scraps and bring back Harvey Weinstein.
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Re: Captain Marvel news

Post by Dazzle1 »

Femina wrote: 4 years ago It's quite telling to me when IGNs comment board... a comment board that ordinarily goes nearly 100% OUT OF ITS FREAKING MIND any time anything censors itself or folds to any kind of social pressure is only about 30% angry about this. Goes to show peoples overall trust in Marvel that this film is going to be great and doesn't need a bunch of spoiled ass manbabies sabotaging it out of sheer malicious SEXIST spite.

"Oh but Wonder Woman didn't get any of this....." yeah, that's because Gal Godot acted like the the demure delicate princess they wanted her to off camera. She didn't say or do anything that challenged their worldview or she absolutely would have got this, and it STILL would have had fuck all to do with the movie. Apparently any time a woman famous enough speaks her mind, its a big fucking deal and has to be punished and we should all just do as we are told so as to avoid upsetting the 'safe spaces" of our male betters.

....................

Apologies to all men (especially you white men) out there who are better than this. I'm so sorry you have to deal with people like this making you look bad.
Gal Gadot is a former IDF member and she is not afraid to take a stand, as she got the director fired for sexual harassment allegations

But unlike the thin skinned Larsen she understands fans have the right to express their opinions. But Larsen like other prima donnas of both sexes think she walks on water
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Re: Captain Marvel news

Post by Dogfish »

Wonder Woman got a pass from the turds attacking Captain Marvel because to them DC is on their side and Disney is the enemy, so it didn't matter what the actual or even potential of the movies was. It's all about teams to them. There's no consistency beyond tribalism. It doesn't matter what DC did, it was decreed that was their team.

Ironically this could actually work out for the best all round. DC got an army of racists to accept Jason Momoa as Aquaman, they've got rid of Snyder, they're more than happy to go with female lead movies, the guy playing Shazam seems like a good egg and maybe they can Trojan Horse some decent values into some of these weirdos.
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Re: Captain Marvel news

Post by DrDominator9 »

A recent story by MSN news feed about RT and Captain Marvel situation....

https://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/news/r ... spartanntp
Follow this link to descriptions of my stories and easy links to them:

viewtopic.php?f=70&t=32025
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Re: Captain Marvel news

Post by Dazzle1 »

DrDominator9 wrote: 4 years ago A recent story by MSN news feed about RT and Captain Marvel situation....

https://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/news/r ... spartanntp
That is their claim, but it sounds like a reflex when fan response is drasticly different from their so called expert critics.

They use the female Ghostbusters which was horrible as an example.
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Re: Captain Marvel news

Post by GeekyPornCritic »

lionbadger wrote: 4 years ago
GeekyPornCritic wrote: 4 years ago First, a person's demographics do not lessen their opinion on a movie. Second, it is never good to have less people of a race. Should there be less white people? No. Should there be more people of color? Yes The best solution is to simply add people of color, and not remove any white people.

Another problem is she acts as if she is the first female lead in a superheroine movie. Excuse me, Wonder Woman beat her to the punch. Wonder Woman was a hit so Captain Marvel or Brie do not need to focus so much on her sex, and need to focus on her character's strong qualities. It would be as if Lebron James acted as if he was the first black man in the NBA.
Demographics do matter. News shows and politics (almost inseparable) are dominated by old people and old white men in particular. Now, I'm not a young man but even I'm struggling not to sigh when these yesteryear fucks pop up to start bleating about how I should i.e. deal with an evonomy that they have no clue about.

You completely contradict your first point about demographics in your second point, the one that says Brie Larsson needs to shut up about women because there has been 1 female lead superhero movie in the last 10 years but admittedly none from alleged SJW Marvel, so she should be happy with scraps and bring back Harvey Weinstein.
That wasn't what I was trying to say. I edited the post to make my thoughts clearer. I think it is fine for Brie to talk about being a a lead in a female-superhero movie. However, she is so focused on being a woman than Captain Marvel's character. What I am trying to say is Captain Marvel is more than just a woman. She is a person first, and her personality, traits, and powers should be talked about. Brie doesn't talk about who is Captain Marvel other than being a woman.
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Re: Captain Marvel news

Post by sugarcoater »

For what it’s worth, can we stop with the monolithic reference to “white men”? Especially as it is both absurd and overly general and cliche?
And as no one would make the same generality about other groups based on the one ethnic commonality, it seems we can do better in our discussions.
Much of what is being discussed is quite interesting on all sides. And it’s nice to read multiple theories as often something happens due to multiple reasons.
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Re: Captain Marvel news

Post by theScribbler »

Dazzle1 wrote: 4 years ago
DrDominator9 wrote: 4 years ago A recent story by MSN news feed about RT and Captain Marvel situation....

https://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/news/r ... spartanntp
That is their claim, but it sounds like a reflex when fan response is drasticly different from their so called expert critics.

They use the female Ghostbusters which was horrible as an example.
Bullshit. Rotten Tomatoes critics haven't posted one word on RT about Captain Marvel movie, so no data for your "drasticaly diff" nonsense.

Response is not from fans, it's from trolls. And trolls response to movie they've not seen is baseless hate. They BS about Brie, but trolls sustain themselves on Bullshit. Same as you.

Black Panther, Star Wars TLJ and Ghostbusters reboot are perfect examples of what led RT to this point.
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Re: Captain Marvel news

Post by theScribbler »

Dazzle1 wrote: 4 years ago
Femina wrote: 4 years ago It's quite telling to me when IGNs comment board... a comment board that ordinarily goes nearly 100% OUT OF ITS FREAKING MIND any time anything censors itself or folds to any kind of social pressure is only about 30% angry about this. Goes to show peoples overall trust in Marvel that this film is going to be great and doesn't need a bunch of spoiled ass manbabies sabotaging it out of sheer malicious SEXIST spite.

"Oh but Wonder Woman didn't get any of this....." yeah, that's because Gal Godot acted like the the demure delicate princess they wanted her to off camera. She didn't say or do anything that challenged their worldview or she absolutely would have got this, and it STILL would have had fuck all to do with the movie. Apparently any time a woman famous enough speaks her mind, its a big fucking deal and has to be punished and we should all just do as we are told so as to avoid upsetting the 'safe spaces" of our male betters.

....................

Apologies to all men (especially you white men) out there who are better than this. I'm so sorry you have to deal with people like this making you look bad.
Gal Gadot is a former IDF member and she is not afraid to take a stand, as she got the director fired for sexual harassment allegations

But unlike the thin skinned Larsen she understands fans have the right to express their opinions. But Larsen like other prima donnas of both sexes think she walks on water
You're a mountain of misinformation.

Patty Jenkins fired? FALSE

Patty Jenkins has always been the director of Wonder Woman 1984, and she is not fired. Gal helped get one of the producers, Brett Ratner, fired. He was never a director on Wonder Woman 1984.

from Vanity Fair article: Gal Gadot Confirms Brett Ratner Has Been Kicked Off the Next Wonder Woman...
“The truth is, there’s so many people involved in making this movie—it’s not just me—and they all echoed the same sentiments,” Gadot told Today’s Savannah Guthrie. “You know what I mean? So everyone knew what was the right thing to do, but there was nothing for me to actually come and say because it was already done before this article came out.”
Larson (spell her name correctly please) is not thin skinned, is not a prima donna and doesn't think she walks on water. Your insults tell us a lot about you tho. If Gal Gadot knew of your false attacks on Brie, she'd get you fired too!

Why are you so hurt by Brie just cause she had a little fun retweeting fan photoshopped images of Ironman and Captain America smiling? Why are you so easily offended?
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Re: Captain Marvel news

Post by theScribbler »

GeekyPornCritic wrote: 4 years ago
I agree with Brie Larson on adding a more diverse perspective. More people of color and women should be included in the industry.
That's exactly what she's for.
However, Brie's approach was wrong. It's never good to say "I want less people of a race"
Her approach is not wrong, your characterization of her approach is wrong.

Brie didn't say "I want less people of a race." This is not her quote. Or link us to where she said this.
and "I don't care what old white men think".
Brie didn't say "I don't care what old white men think." Or link us to where she said this.
First, a person's demographics do not lessen their opinion on a movie.
Brie didn't say it lessens their opinion. She would like from more diverse reviewers on her press tours tho; not less white reviewers, but more diverse reviewers added.
Second, it is never good to have less people of a race. Should there be less white people? No.
And Brie didn't say there should be. Brie is white, you know.
Should there be more people of color? Yes
More women, more people of color, more diversity. Working on movies, on press tours. That was Brie's whole point.
The best solution is to simply add people of color, and not remove any white people.
That's exactly what Brie's advocating for.
Captain Marvel is not the first female superheroine movie.
No one said it was. Brie didn't say it was. Various people have said it's MARVEL's first female led superhero movie (or some such language). Sure, there's Elektra, but nobody counts that.
Wonder woman was a major success. I think Brie should focus on talking about her character.
Why should she focus on talking about her character? She's usually the interviewee. Gets asked all kinds of questions about Captain Marvel movie and about herself. She can answer.
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Re: Captain Marvel news

Post by exxxidor456 »

Anyone who 'reviews' something they haven't seen yet is foolish, in my opinion. Bleating about too much diversity only makes them more foolish.

We've had over a century of mainstream fictional entertainment dominated by male, white characters. Isn't it time to let some other people share the spotlight?
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Re: Captain Marvel news

Post by Dazzle1 »

theScribbler wrote: 4 years ago
Dazzle1 wrote: 4 years ago
Femina wrote: 4 years ago It's quite telling to me when IGNs comment board... a comment board that ordinarily goes nearly 100% OUT OF ITS FREAKING MIND any time anything censors itself or folds to any kind of social pressure is only about 30% angry about this. Goes to show peoples overall trust in Marvel that this film is going to be great and doesn't need a bunch of spoiled ass manbabies sabotaging it out of sheer malicious SEXIST spite.

"Oh but Wonder Woman didn't get any of this....." yeah, that's because Gal Godot acted like the the demure delicate princess they wanted her to off camera. She didn't say or do anything that challenged their worldview or she absolutely would have got this, and it STILL would have had fuck all to do with the movie. Apparently any time a woman famous enough speaks her mind, its a big fucking deal and has to be punished and we should all just do as we are told so as to avoid upsetting the 'safe spaces" of our male betters.

....................

Apologies to all men (especially you white men) out there who are better than this. I'm so sorry you have to deal with people like this making you look bad.
Gal Gadot is a former IDF member and she is not afraid to take a stand, as she got the director fired for sexual harassment allegations

But unlike the thin skinned Larsen she understands fans have the right to express their opinions. But Larsen like other prima donnas of both sexes think she walks on water
You're a mountain of misinformation.

Patty Jenkins fired? FALSE

Patty Jenkins has always been the director of Wonder Woman 1984, and she is not fired. Gal helped get one of the producers, Brett Ratner, fired. He was never a director on Wonder Woman 1984.

from Vanity Fair article: Gal Gadot Confirms Brett Ratner Has Been Kicked Off the Next Wonder Woman...
“The truth is, there’s so many people involved in making this movie—it’s not just me—and they all echoed the same sentiments,” Gadot told Today’s Savannah Guthrie. “You know what I mean? So everyone knew what was the right thing to do, but there was nothing for me to actually come and say because it was already done before this article came out.”
Larson (spell her name correctly please) is not thin skinned, is not a prima donna and doesn't think she walks on water. Your insults tell us a lot about you tho. If Gal Gadot knew of your false attacks on Brie, she'd get you fired too!

Why are you so hurt by Brie just cause she had a little fun retweeting fan photoshopped images of Ironman and Captain America smiling? Why are you so easily offended?
--------------------

I could care less about Brie or her movie which I never planned to see. My point is how certain groups and even though Femina hates the term SJWs go after anyone who dares criticize anything that happens to have a female or a minority in. Same way Wikpedia blocks people without cause.

If the blond Prima Donna had kept her mouth shut the same way a dreaded white male Adrian Paul did when the Highlander Movie was panned before and after its showing she would be better off
I suggest you try listening to Praeton , Geeks and Gamers or Internet Harpy before dismissing them
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Re: Captain Marvel news

Post by theScribbler »

Dazzle1 wrote: 4 years ago I could care less about Brie or her movie which I never planned to see. My point is how certain groups and even though Femina hates the term SJWs go after anyone who dares criticize anything that happens to have a female or a minority in. Same way Wikpedia blocks people without cause.

If the blond Prima Donna had kept her mouth shut the same way a dreaded white male Adrian Paul did when the Highlander Movie was panned before and after its showing she would be better off
I suggest you try listening to Praeton , Geeks and Gamers or Internet Harpy before dismissing them
Don't fool yourself, you care plenty. Movie's gonna be too good for you, you should definitely not see it. Stay away and sulk. Wallow in your hate.

Did Wikipedia block you? I'm sure they had cause.

The only group going after people is the large number of trolls going after Brie and Captain Marvel movie. Sad lot, all of them.

Your lame insults just show how much you care and how terribly wounded you are that an actress is able to speak, and speak well on many topics, way better than you can.

Have no interest in listening to the manbabies lying to themselves and others at Geeks and Gamers or your other mentions. Waste of time.
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Re: Captain Marvel news

Post by DrDominator9 »

This thread is getting pretty toxic at this point. If it persists it may have to be closed until the movie opens and we can actually discuss the pros and cons of the film itself in a new thread titled "Captain Marvel -- Cumbaya."
Follow this link to descriptions of my stories and easy links to them:

viewtopic.php?f=70&t=32025
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Re: Captain Marvel news

Post by theScribbler »

All Captain Marvel clips n trailers so far...



clips =
Remember Who You Are
Train Chase
In the Clouds
Interrogation
Carol meets Supreme Intelligence

then featurette titled Intergalactic War with cast n crew (looks like just a trailer at first)

then all the trailers back to back.

Looks really good to me. Can't wait!

:lynda1: :ss:
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Re: Captain Marvel news

Post by Dazzle1 »

DrDominator9 wrote: 4 years ago This thread is getting pretty toxic at this point. If it persists it may have to be closed until the movie opens and we can actually discuss the pros and cons of the film itself in a new thread titled "Captain Marvel -- Cumbaya."
Sorry but I do respond when I get attacked without cause
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Re: Captain Marvel news

Post by GeekyPornCritic »

theScribbler wrote: 4 years ago
GeekyPornCritic wrote: 4 years ago
I agree with Brie Larson on adding a more diverse perspective. More people of color and women should be included in the industry.
That's exactly what she's for.
However, Brie's approach was wrong. It's never good to say "I want less people of a race"
Her approach is not wrong, your characterization of her approach is wrong.

Brie didn't say "I want less people of a race." This is not her quote. Or link us to where she said this.
and "I don't care what old white men think".
Brie didn't say "I don't care what old white men think." Or link us to where she said this.
First, a person's demographics do not lessen their opinion on a movie.
Brie didn't say it lessens their opinion. She would like from more diverse reviewers on her press tours tho; not less white reviewers, but more diverse reviewers added.
Second, it is never good to have less people of a race. Should there be less white people? No.
And Brie didn't say there should be. Brie is white, you know.
Should there be more people of color? Yes
More women, more people of color, more diversity. Working on movies, on press tours. That was Brie's whole point.
The best solution is to simply add people of color, and not remove any white people.
That's exactly what Brie's advocating for.
Captain Marvel is not the first female superheroine movie.
No one said it was. Brie didn't say it was. Various people have said it's MARVEL's first female led superhero movie (or some such language). Sure, there's Elektra, but nobody counts that.
Wonder woman was a major success. I think Brie should focus on talking about her character.
Why should she focus on talking about her character? She's usually the interviewee. Gets asked all kinds of questions about Captain Marvel movie and about herself. She can answer.

https://variety.com/video/brie-larson-c ... s-critics/

“I don’t want to hear what a white man has to say about ‘A Wrinkle in Time.’ I want to hear what a woman of color, a biracial woman has to say about the film. I want to hear what teenagers think about the film.”

It's great that she cares about the opinions of people of color. I agree with 90% of what she says. What is wrong with a white man's opinion about A Wrinkle in Time? I understand movies have targeted demographics, but people from all ages and groups see a variety of movies and media. Media is no longer limited to one group. Sure a lot of black people love Tyler Perry, but I also know a lot of people who also enjoy his work. Are their opinions of his movie invalid?
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Re: Captain Marvel news

Post by tallyho »

Positive discrimination is still discrimination and I dont like any of it.
It shouldnt matter what colour a critic is, nor their age, sex or anything else about them. What should matter is their ability to present an assessment of a film or other piece of Art in a relatable way to a prospective audience for that piece of art.
You shouldnt have more black film critics or more hispanic or more female or more chinese - you should just have more GOOD critics who are there on merit and can provide a competent and balanced assessment of whatever they are asked to assess.
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Re: Captain Marvel news

Post by Femina »

Dazzle1 wrote: 4 years ago I could care less about Brie or her movie which I never planned to see. My point is how certain groups and even though Femina hates the term SJWs go after anyone who dares criticize anything that happens to have a female or a minority in. Same way Wikpedia blocks people without cause.
You don't even plan to see it yet you persist in swirling about the culture that wants to pan it before its ever come out. If you don't even want to see it then go find a movie you want to see and worry about THAT! If there is a culture that goes after anyone who 'dares criticize anything that happens to have a female or a minority in it' that is only because there is an equal and opposite culture that goes after anything that 'happens to star a female or a minority in it' You KNOW this is true. When a film is announced, nothing known about it, to be staring a female lead, the top ten comments on any message board are 'Oh here we go, another film staring a woman, SJW's out in force!'
If the blond Prima Donna had kept her mouth shut the same way a dreaded white male Adrian Paul did when the Highlander Movie was panned before and after its showing she would be better off
What are you talkiing about? Forget your little pissing match with 'the blonde Prima Donna' (Sexist quote but whatever at this point) keeping her female mouth shut for a minute and think about what you are saying. Captain Marvel isn't being 'panned before or after its showing' the analogy doesn't make sense. The ONLY people who have actually seen Captain Marvel are so far indicating a generally positive response to it. Conspiracy? Maybe, but you can't possibly know that until you've seen it yourself, which you don't even plan to do. Rotton Tomatoes 'want to see score' doesn't qualify as a 'critical panning' because NONE OF THOSE PEOPLE HAVE SEEN IT! You have to have seen a film to have an actual oppinion about it. If you are 'panning' a film you've never seen, you're not a critic, your an ACTIVIST.

Side note: Adrian Paul's Highlander films are legitimately terrible AFTER THE FACT. There's proof that the film sucks because we've SEEN IT. But that's fine, sometimes its fun to watch bad movies? I expect Adrian Paul probably didn't make a big stink about it because he never thought he was going to be making a shitgob of money out of the Highlander series to begin with, it's pretty niche?
GeekyPornCritic wrote: 4 years ago It's great that she cares about the opinions of people of color. I agree with 90% of what she says. What is wrong with a white man's opinion about A Wrinkle in Time? I understand movies have targeted demographics, but people from all ages and groups see a variety of movies and media. Media is no longer limited to one group. Sure a lot of black people love Tyler Perry, but I also know a lot of people who also enjoy his work. Are their opinions of his movie invalid?
Don't think about it as a black and white. Human beings don't always say exactly what they mean exactly how they mean it. It's a single line quote that lacks enough further elaboration to indicate a prejudice. Brie Larson probably isn't saying 'Fuck white reviewers, only minority reviews matter about this movie!' (I mean... she COULD be... but she probably isn't. She IS WHITE afterall) She's more likely saying something closer to 'I've already seen fifty reviews from white folk about this film that is predominantly intended for a minority group, I'd like to see more about what they thought of this film.' Intended audience can change one's outlook on a film. I used to feel like Guardians of the Galaxy 1 was just a better overall film than 2, but I wasn't looking at it through its intended lens. It took a thought provoking review from someone who was watching the film differently from me to see the film for what it was, and now I legitimately feel like 2 is the superior story.

There's a reason why a stark white gal like me can't appreciate 'Seven years a Slave' as much as an African American, but I can get a better idea if I hear the opinions about the film from the people who connect with the film the most... My guess is that's what Brie Larson was saying, and being a human being, she just said it in a less than ideal way. It's not like she's gone around demanding that white reviewers be banned or something, or even that she isn't going to read anything written by white reviewers. I do think it's a fair thing to just up and say 'alright she probably could have phrased that better' but it sure as shit isn't worth this sustained campaign to 'boycott the film!!!!'
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Re: Captain Marvel news

Post by Imagineer »

DrDominator9 wrote:This thread is getting pretty toxic at this point. If it persists it may have to be closed until the movie opens and we can actually discuss the pros and cons of the film itself in a new thread titled "Captain Marvel -- Cumbaya."
This isn't about the film itself -- "Captain Marvel news" has become another discussion of the cultural tug-of-war; the film is just the rope being used this round. I'm sure there'll be a discussion of the film itself after it opens, just as I'm sure it'll turn into another cultural tug-of-war. For some, the culture is what they want to talk about; for others, it's what they feel they cannot leave undefended because it's too important. All of which is belaboring the obvious, I know, but leads to...
tallyho wrote: 4 years ago Positive discrimination is still discrimination and I dont like any of it.
It shouldnt matter what colour a critic is, nor their age, sex or anything else about them. What should matter is their ability to present an assessment of a film or other piece of Art in a relatable way to a prospective audience for that piece of art.
You shouldnt have more black film critics or more hispanic or more female or more chinese - you should just have more GOOD critics who are there on merit and can provide a competent and balanced assessment of whatever they are asked to assess.
But it does matter. Unbiased is impossible, even if you're of the mind that a film critic's lane is as narrow as the technical execution of the narrative for some hypothetical unbiased audience. People are informed by the extent of, and ignorant by the limits of, their experience. Their ability to present an assessment is affected by their experience -- as is the relatability to the audience.

As I get older, I find different value in different opinions on film that tend to cluster by experience -- the components of the reviewer's culture, including their gender, ethnicity, age, home town, religious upbringing, what kind and how much of a geek they are... and people unlike me see things that people like me don't see. Honestly I have less and less use for reviewers too close to the Internet Average, mainly because it's not getting older and I am :) -- and seeing the center-of-cultural-gravity moving away from me (really me moving further from it) makes me appreciate the Otherness and alienation that people could feel who have NEVER been as close to that center as I've been.

Everybody here is expressing frustration with where they are relative to where and what shape that cultural center is and where and how that cultural center is getting moved around. And we're not going to agree, but with each uptick in blood pressure at another post here I try to remember we at least have that frustration in common.
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Re: Captain Marvel news

Post by Bert »

tallyho wrote: 4 years ago Positive discrimination is still discrimination and I dont like any of it.
It shouldnt matter what colour a critic is, nor their age, sex or anything else about them. What should matter is their ability to present an assessment of a film or other piece of Art in a relatable way to a prospective audience for that piece of art.
You shouldnt have more black film critics or more hispanic or more female or more chinese - you should just have more GOOD critics who are there on merit and can provide a competent and balanced assessment of whatever they are asked to assess.
I'm gonna go ahead and put my Forum decoder ring at risk here by disagreeing with the brilliant, insightful, clever and devilishly handsome Ambassador Tallyho. While no one would make points disagreeing with the contention that critics should be good at their job, I can't go along with the statement that sex, age, colour, cultural background etc. don't matter. Those factors influence reviews. If a black filmmaker chooses to make a movie that is principally aimed at a black audience and utilizes language, cultural touchstones and motivations that specifically resonate with that demographic, white critics who aren't privvy to the references will miss them. Patty Jenkins fought hard to shoot the no man's land sequence in Wonder Woman the way she did. There was plenty of resistance from the mostly male studio brass. That sequence in the movie was incredibly powerful to women around the world in a way that male critics could not fully grasp.

Critics offer opinions. If they write well, are engaging and display good knowledge of their medium and solid taste, they deserve to be successful and enjoy some influence. But their opinions are based on their perspective, and perspective isn't absolute. Two people with similar knowledge, skill and sensitivity could watch the same movie and have very different reactions to it. To argue that a critic's perspective isn't influenced by their sex or colour or culture seems naive to me. Greater diversity among critics is bound to offer a broader range of perspective. Should they be good at their job, regardless of who they happen to be? Hell yeah. Are there good critics out there who struggle to find traction because the field has long been dominated by white and/or male people? I suspect the answer is yes.
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Re: Captain Marvel news

Post by Femina »

I mean if we want to play a game of 'What the Prima Donna actually said" We need to first take a look at what she's actually said. Brie Larson has never said "I hate White Men" She has never said "I don't want to be around white men." She has never said "I don't want to be interviewed by white men."

This is exactly what she said "I don’t need a 40-year-old white dude to tell me what didn’t work about A Wrinkle in Time. It wasn’t made for him! I want to know what it meant to women of color, biracial women, to teen women of color... ...Am I saying I hate white dudes? No, I am not. What I am saying is if you make a movie that is a love letter to women of color, there is an insanely low chance a woman of color will have a chance to see your movie, and review your movie."

She also said this, "What I am looking for is to bring more seats to the table. No one is getting their chair taken away. There's not less seats at the table, there's just more seats at the table."

But I mean, if that doesn't fit your narrative you just say 'Brie Larson said she hates white men!"


Edit: In response to a few of the great comments above me here. The first thing you learn in Interracial Communications is that you absolutely cannot separate subculture from the culture. Embracing the totality of culture, sub culture and all the little facets of what makes everybody who they are can only strengthen the foundations of whatever it is you are trying to build. If everyone has the same outlook and opinion than everyone is missing most of what there is to be seen. Only by accepting that one persons view of the world is very different from another can you be convinced to try and take a look at something from another perspective... and very little changes a persons perspective more than race and gender.

Now I admit that this means I should try and look at things from the perspective of those who hate Brie Larson and want to boycott her film because she hates white men and generally is a racist pigheaded bitch..... The issue is I already HAVE looked at it from that perspective and found it was nonsense.

P.S. I just noticed that it shows how many times you've edited your post now! Cool xD now everybody can see how long it takes me to organize my disorganized thought!
Last edited by Femina 4 years ago, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Captain Marvel news

Post by Bert »

Femina wrote: 4 years ago There's a reason why a stark white gal like me can't appreciate 'Seven years a Slave' as much as an African American, but I can get a better idea if I hear the opinions about the film from the people who connect with the film the most... My guess is that's what Brie Larson was saying, and being a human being, she just said it in a less than ideal way. It's not like she's gone around demanding that white reviewers be banned or something, or even that she isn't going to read anything written by white reviewers. I do think it's a fair thing to just up and say 'alright she probably could have phrased that better' but it sure as shit isn't worth this sustained campaign to 'boycott the film!!!!'
At some point I think you are going to have to stop bitch-slapping poor Dazzle1 around. He's obviously getting so punch-drunk that he can't even see the irony of being argued into oblivion by an uppity broad. (I'm pretty certain you will interpret that last bit the way I intended it!)
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Re: Captain Marvel news

Post by Imagineer »

To be fair, unless Brie Larson does longer press days than she's been doing, some existing critics will get their chair taken away -- the chair that sits across from Brie Larson for five minutes to get that critical I'm-asking-her-questions-and-getting-exclusive-answers footage that's a prerequisite for being taken seriously as a movie critic. It shouldn't be a prerequisite, but you basically don't exist without a YouTube clip.

The movie press business is brutal for all involved.
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Re: Captain Marvel news

Post by lionbadger »

Bert wrote: 4 years ago I'm gonna go ahead and put my Forum decoder ring at risk here by disagreeing with the brilliant, insightful, clever and devilishly handsome Ambassador
There's another Tallyho now?
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Re: Captain Marvel news

Post by tallyho »

You're banned. :D

And Bert I didnt say ' it doesn't matter' I said it SHOULDN'T matter. The fact anyone is a different colour to anyome else has no baring on a person's intellectual capacity. I've never been a black slave. That doesnt stop me empathising with people portrayed in that plight.
Most African slavers were black, selling captured slaves to white middlemen. For every white middleman there were 4 or more black slavers capturing the slaves in the first place.
Yet people view those times as white enslaving black , but thats just part of and not the whole story.

Everyone of the 7 billion of us on this planet is diffrrent with different experiences. The idea that you can only know what its like and empathise if you have experienced things first hand is just a bit silly, imho.

And the no mans land Wonder Woman sequence was for me the silliest part of the film*- she would have had her pretty little head shot off the minute she stuck it above the parapet.
Nothing to do with chauvanism or male bias, just fact. Snipers woulda popped her cork whilst she is still climbing the ladder in slow motion.

* forgot about the stupid vine swinging archers jumping off the cliff. That was sillier.
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Re: Captain Marvel news

Post by AvaHeinz »

I am going to say something about this.

First of all, I am a white woman, an second generation Immigrant from Germany to Australia, talk about racist, I honestly believe no country in this world can top Australia. I personally see what my parent went thru 30 some years after WW2. I meant, give them a break already, they would have been like 1 back then.

I am also a feminist, studied feminism in college, and have my own production of Superhero content, in my own production, I try to promote as much Female Equality and Feminism as I can.

I remember a conversation I have with my editor and actress about getting a "Domestic Violence" message at the beginning of my movie, and my editor which is white male, and my actress, which is all white female, both disagree with my thought, they think it make the movie too political.

Problem is, there are time and place for everything, while I do agree Brie Larson about white man dominating the movie critic and minority and female were not generally accepted as mush as white male in Hollywood, but the timing of when she said it is very bad. And when you said something right at the bad time, it still look bad and that is the reason why we got all the troll in this situation.

When you are promoting a movie, any movie, it's best to put your own agenda aside, and talk about what the movie entail, and what the character is like or how to approach your character. That is not a time or place to say there should be more equality or we need to have more people of colour and gender in the movie, when you are promoting a movie, you stick to a movie, otherwise people will think you are using the movie to push your very own agenda, it can be a just clause, but the moment you did that, you lost the right to the audience.

She could have talk about this, in advocate event using the influence form the movie, or using the actress status, that would be more acceptable to audience who just want to see what you have to say about the movie you star in.

This is the same reason why speech or expression of Political Agenda/Commercial Agenda are forbidden in International Sporting Event, you don't see athletes rising up on "Free Tibet" during 2008 Summer Olympic in China, you don't see athletes chanting "Right for Slum/Favela " in 2016 Summer Olympia in Brazil, Sporting event is what uniting people, not separating people, movie play the same role, movie, music, in fact, all type of entertainment have the same function, which is to unite people, that does not mean going for those rights is not legit, that just mean there are time and place for everything, You don't broadcast you social agenda during an international sporting event, and you don't broadcast your social agenda in entertainment event. You want to express your social view? You can express it on your own time in an appropriate forum.

That is what I have to say

Thanks for your time

Ava
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Re: Captain Marvel news

Post by Femina »

tallyho wrote: 4 years ago
Yet people view those times as white enslaving black , but thats just part of and not the whole story.
Sure? But I mean... most of the people in Africa enslaving their own didn't fight a rebellion against a ruling country, found a new country based upon freedom, then immediately turn around and corrupt its very ideals by maintaining a large slave population either. :P
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Re: Captain Marvel news

Post by GeekyPornCritic »

Femina wrote: 4 years ago
tallyho wrote: 4 years ago
Yet people view those times as white enslaving black , but thats just part of and not the whole story.
Sure? But I mean... most of the people in Africa enslaving their own didn't fight a rebellion against a ruling country, found a new country based upon freedom, then immediately turn around and corrupt its very ideals by maintaining a large slave population either. :P
The African slavers are just as wrong as the white slaver owners. It does not matter what politics governed those African communities. Morality is not founded by a country. Morality is founded by human rights and civil rights.

Some people don't realize there were black slave owners in America. It was very rare, but some free blacks went to picnics to purchase blacks. The free blacks did NOT buy their peers to free them but to enslave them.
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Re: Captain Marvel news

Post by theScribbler »

AvaHeinz wrote: 4 years ago ...

Problem is, there are time and place for everything, while I do agree Brie Larson about white man dominating the movie critic and minority and female were not generally accepted as mush as white male in Hollywood, but the timing of when she said it is very bad. And when you said something right at the bad time, it still look bad and that is the reason why we got all the troll in this situation.

When you are promoting a movie, any movie, it's best to put your own agenda aside, and talk about what the movie entail, and what the character is like or how to approach your character. That is not a time or place to say there should be more equality or we need to have more people of colour and gender in the movie, when you are promoting a movie, you stick to a movie, otherwise people will think you are using the movie to push your very own agenda, it can be a just clause, but the moment you did that, you lost the right to the audience.

She could have talk about this, in advocate event using the influence form the movie, or using the actress status, that would be more acceptable to audience who just want to see what you have to say about the movie you star in.
---
From your post, I'm guessing you think Brie's timing is recent. Just so you know, Brie made her speech about 8 months + 2 weeks ago.

She did "talk about this" at an "advocate event." Her "talk about this" was at the Women In Film event during her acceptance speech when she received 2018 Crystal Award for Excellence in Film: The Crystal + Lucy Awards, June 13, 2018. Think of it as a fairly low profile Golden Globes type event: Festive party with food served and awards given, but not televised.

Brie's timing was fine. The event choice where she made speech was fine. It's the manbabies agenda that have revisited this and pulled this 9 months past event out of the past to now, to drum up their wounded pride brigade to hit her now. It's their intentional, dishonest, calculated, mean-spirited timing. But they are very tender snowflakes that feel they don't exist if not playing the aggrieved victims they so long to be.
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