Why is there a lack of black models in heroine porn?

[GeekyPornCritic]

African American women are rarely seen in heroine porn. Why is this the case? Are the current group of black models not interested in acting in heroine movies? Is the market too small to earn money with black actresses? Some producers may not have easy access to these ladies, but I am sure some have access without realizing their status or interest in booking.

I know most classic heroines are white females. Storm is the most notable black female heroine. She is very popular among the cast of X-Men. Not every heroine video is a direct parody. Producers can create an original superheroine. We see videos with original characters every year. I only have four or five videos with black actresses out of 385 heroine porn videos. All but one of them are by Primal Fetishes. Two videos feature a black heroine and reminding videos have a black villianess.

The industry have very few black models at the moment. I have a list of a few ladies that have the good looks to play an original heroine. Would you like to see any of these ladies in a hardcore heroine movie?

Jezabel Vessir
https://twitter.com/JezabelVisser

Anya Ivy
https://twitter.com/SexxxyIvy

Aaliyah Hadid
https://twitter.com/aaliyahhadid

Cassidy Banks
https://twitter.com/CassidyBanksXO

Let's Discuss

[RedMountain]

Not porn, but Ultraheroix has held several lovely looking black ladies play their leading heroines.

There's also a WW gangbang with a black porn star on most of the sites out there, but she doesn't really keep the costume on for any of it.

Would love to see more of them give super heroines a try, but maybe they aren't interested?

[MightyHypnotic]

I'm working on a few myself. A few local girls that I've met, still trying to convince them that the won't ruin their dancing careers...(Yeah right!) and there are a couple out there in the industry that are really catching my eye.

Including this hottie...

anafoxxxNew.jpg (151.21 KiB) Viewed 6973 times

[wondergirlsupragirl]

This lady is gorgeous!

[shevek]

I feel there might have been a thread about this already somewhere...?

I plan to have a black heroine in my own series, Heroineburgh. In Episode 10, I have a lithe mid-20-something dancer/model named Kyra cast to play Savanna, who is a character similar to Cheetah/Vixen. She's kind of already half set to play Isis here, and she is gorgeous in a leotard.



And I have actresses cast to play Latina, Arabic, Chinese and Indian heroines as well. But of course that will all be PG-13.

Also, Ultraheroix casts multi-ethnic heroines, and so did Logan Cross. The only black superheroine *producer* that I know of is the Houston-based guy who did the two seasons of Party Girl on Youtube (again, not porn). But I might be forgetting someone.

But you're right, overall this is a bit of an issue. And I think the answer is simply proximity, familiarity and lack of outreach. The vast majority of the producers are white, and they tend to know mostly white models..and the vast majority of the fans of this genre are white.

Just look at who goes to Comicons..unless it's held in a city with a very large black population (such as Atlanta), the attendees are almost entirely white. I didn't see a single black adult cosplayer on stage at a recent con, out of maybe 50 entries. I think that comicbook culture itself is largely a white culture, which is just now starting to welcome lots of females, but still has a ways to go with some minority audiences.

Overall, minority cultures themselves, which tend to be more conservative than the average white mainstream, aren't yet as welcoming to the presence of comic nerds, let alone porn. I know there are a lot of black kids who are into superheroes, but it is frowned upon to nerd out about them.
Whereas with white kids it is totally fine and to some extent even expected, especially when their parents were already geeks.

So although blerds (black nerds) have always been a thing, they are just now starting to get organized via the Internet and Youtube etc. And you can't get interested in *superheroine porn* if you're not already interested in superheroines from a lifelong love of comics and films. I think that SHIP fandom is still trying to spread outward from its white base..certainly the large amount of superhero TV shows and films, and the porn parodies that result from them, will help that happen.

So everyone just goes with what they know, and they don't get adventurous in either their casting or their heroine preferences. Also, many black and Latina models, especially, represent a certain zaftig body type that's different than the one usually attributed to superheroines. You gotta be able to fit into that spandex

I think to some extent, therefore, that the same thing can be said for the small amount of East Asian, South Asian, Middle Eastern, and Latina models as well in Western SHIP. (Of course, as Japanese culture likes to imitate American culture but make it more extreme, there's obviously no shortage of SHIP models in Japan itself).

I think it's an issue worth exploring for sure. And I am a big fan of diversity. But I just don't want the diversity to be forced or mandated by some kind of PC police. It has to arise organically and from real interest, i.e. all the parties involved (in this case, producers and fans) have to want the diversity for it to happen. If they don't want it, it just won't happen.

Am I hitting the mark on most of this? Hope nothing I've said is too controversial.

[KennyLoggins]

I have something ready to be posted here but not before some necessary previous approval I will just say : we don't have enough black exploitation yet and the producers must do it without any shame for the profit they might made from it.

If people pay for it you just do it, if you want they pay for more just keep doing it. And if you are good doing it never deliver for free.

[MAV6666]

Monica Jade is pretty hot but only does nude fetish, not hardcore. She is available for customs from torvea

[KennyLoggins]

We want our comic book fantasies and late night/early morning waxing carrot lube closer to the source material as possible and honestly we never had as much African, Asian or Latin American Superheroines as we had American Whites to begin with. But, if you go through http://www.akiba-web.com/ catalog you will see that never was exactly a problem for our friends from Japan.

If you stop caring about ethnicity they will produce for you anything you want regardless of any allegedly shame. Just the Japanese Wonder Women do stuff (professionally and never losing character or timing) that could make girls from Sin City look like Angels.

If you want a Black Wonder Woman just hire one, pay her, film and sold for the masses as the new Coke. If is that good people will buy it because avoiding the use of that strategy never removed the competition from the open market before. There is no place for political correctness at the porn or any other entertainment industry.

We only exorcise our sins by jerking off our prejudices not by denying any amount of relief. Masturbation is just like Video Games, is more healthy to play with and/or about that than perpetrate your acts of villainy in real life. Play safe, do it clean, find me the next Wonder Chocolate, we already have plenty of vanilla.

[Femina]

It's no more or less complicated than the state of black to white ratio in Hollywood I don't think. It's sort of unfortunate.

[KennyLoggins]

It's no more or less complicated than the state of black to white ratio in Hollywood I don't think. It's sort of unfortunate.

It really makes me wonder what an African American focused Arrowverse would look like with women in tight leather pants and jackets and struggling booties and boobies to match the ratings challenge instead of the average almost flat blondes in leather nuns outfits we got together with the friendly neighborly shirtless blonde Baywatch rejected ?

I bet a black Supergirl would be far less incompetent even if they keep the actress hair blonde as a Swedish despite the fact they hire somebody curvalicious as that skirt might allowed to be.

[kendra]

Lack of black heroines... Largely because most characters are from long ago, when things were much more racist. New characters don't do well.

[KennyLoggins]

Lack of black heroines... Largely because most characters are from long ago, when things were much more racist. New characters don't do well.

Is about time for African Americans to take their fair share of rightful place under the spotlights and the white she Devils step aside and stop from hogging the limelights for a while : please suit up and stand for names like Black Lightning, Black Cat, Black Panther, Black Canary, Black Scorpion, Black Hawk, Black Bat and Black Beard with pride.

[Mr. X]

Lack of black heroines... Largely because most characters are from long ago, when things were much more racist. New characters don't do well.

Ok I didn't want to get involved with this thread cause I KNEW it was a kafka trap but I have to object to this.

White characters were not in comics cause of racism. If a black dude would sell, they would put a black guy in. And BTW the comic industry was almost entirely created by Jews. White people don't do X cause they are racist.

BTW are nearly all Japanese anime characters Japanese cause racism? Or is it cause the vast majority of the country is... oh I don't know... Japanese? How about China? How about South Korea? Akiba-web has like maybe 2 videos with white girls and the rest are all Japanese/Asian girls. Are they racist?

Please do NOT call people racist. The word has meaning.

[shevek]

I agree with Mr X. The word does have meaning. And there is *no way* (literally, no way) that the Jewish people who created comics were racist.

Jews, are by and large, open-minded classical liberals and impassioned leftists, who fought in the trenches against racism (civil rights movement, union organizing, socialist movements, etc) and lived in tenement housing for decades. Whatever non-white characters had been created in previous generations were probably also largely created by the very same Jews who created all the white-characters. People create characters based on what they see around them. Most Jews lived in urban areas that were somewhat diverse and they were businessmen in those areas..they would see mostly white people, sure, but they would also interact regularly with non-white people (and employ them in large amounts - my grandfather employed dozens of blacks in his supermarket, for example) and so although most of the characters they would create were white, there were always some that weren't because they had the experience of both. Of course, nowadays most Jews live in the suburbs and are as lily-white as their white-bread Protestant neighbors, but that *was not the case* in the eras when comic book heroes were being created. And most Jews still have that social-liberal 'tikkun olam' spark within them (except for the Orthodox ones who vote Republican).

But at the same time, I also agree with Kendra. I'm sure what she meant was not that the creators were necessarily racist, but that the situation in America was. Because I'm sure it was the case that most comic book customers and most moviegoers were white. And the average white person was definitely 'race-prefential' - i.e. if they were not openly racist, then at least they had the strong preference to see white people, who looked like themselves, in their comics and movies and TV shows. So the comics industry simply churned out what they wanted to see. Because overall, there was not the air of open-minded diversity in America, unlike now when we can elect a black president. Sure, there were minority audiences that quietly purchased comics (a whole generation of black nerds inspired by characters such as Spiderman). But the air of diversity only really started with the late 60s (and that's when the blaxploitation films started to take off, and people realized there was an audience for powerful black and Latino characters, for example) and took a couple generations to fully take hold.

I don't think the 'ethnocentric' attitude of almost subconsciously wanting to see your own skin color onscreen can be called outright 'racism'. Because if it was, then the current opposite tendency of minorities (mostly a small vocal activist sliver of them, from BLM and such) to shout loudly that they prefer to see mostly only their *own* skin color onscreen would also be outright 'racism' wouldn't it? One thing we don't want to do is engage in the utter hypocrisy of third-wave intersectionalism and the 'progressive stack' that says that white people are bad and imperialist, and non-white people are good almost no matter what they do (tell that to the 'yellow' empires of authoritarian China or Muslim-oppressing Burma or Christian-oppressing Indonesia, or the 1,000 women per year who get acid attacks and the 12 million slaves in the 'brown' empire of India, or the fact that almost every 'brown' country in Latin America including the Brazilian empire suffers from a stifling culture of machismo and staunch anti-choice Catholicism, or the repeated genocides in the black wannabe empires of Sudan or C.A.R. or Ethiopia or Nigeria, or the oppression of women and religio-fascist fanaticism in the 'olive' empires of the Middle East).

But back to the situation at hand. Kendra is also right in the sense that the vast majority of popular superheroine characters were and are white. There is one way to solve that problem which is inherently third-wave bullshit, and that is to actively kill off the whites and replace them
with nonwhite characters of the same name, while beating your readers to death with the social justice hammer. That is how Marvel Comics tried to do it. This approach is racist, because it involves disdain and hatred for white people. And we can see from recent sales reports that it hasn't worked. Because the vast majority of superhero fans aren't SJWs - they are people who like action, stories and characters they identify with. And yes, most of them are still white (although these days a huge number of them are also Chinese and Japanese..who have their own millenia-old history of racism...whoops I thought only whites could be racist?). So they're simply not buying the bullshit Marvel is trying to force down their throats. Also, you can quietly flip the race of supporting characters in a TV show (Valkyrie in Thor, Deena Pilgrim in Powers, Jimmy Olsen in Supergirl, Jackson in Legends) and it's fine, but you can't flip the race of the main character in the series because the white majority who watch it want to see the character they know. Period. And race-flipping major characters causes a cascading chain reaction: if you make Supergirl black, all Kryptonians are black. That's exactly the kind of nonsense an SJW comics creator would love to see.

The two other ways to solve this racial imbalance in comics is to 1) augment the profile of already-existing non-white characters or 2) create new non-white characters. And both approaches are being tried. There's a Luke Cage TV show, a Cloak & Dagger TV show, a Vixen cartoon, and a Black Lightning TV show coming up. Out of all the efforts of theirs which have failed, one must admit that the Pakistani Ms. Marvel is the one that has at least succeeded for Marvel Comics. (Now all someone needs to do is break the Islamic taboo and make a Kamala Khan porn..we all know that there's a huge number of porn-star fans in the Middle East that are waiting for this! This would be true test of the West's vaunted freedom of expression, which no other civilization has! In every other empire, authoritarian forces - bolstered either politically or religiously or both - prevent true freedom of speech..did you know that?)

So I would say the best thing to do is to keep moving along both of these non-racist, non-intersectional approaches to the problem, and within a couple more generations, when America is truly majority non-white, there'll be enough established and recognized characters to represent everyone in the country. Racism will never completely go away, part of it is simply tribal human nature, but at least everyone will have their
famous ethno-centric heroes that they want to see.

If there's one porn of a black heroine it would be great to see other than Storm, it would be Misty Knight. She has been bad-ass since her introduction during the blaxploitation era that also birthed Luke Cage. She is voluptuous and has always worn a tight uniform. I would argue that she is the sexiest black female character in comics. So read a bit of old Luke Cage, or read a bit of newer Fearless Defenders, and make that happen!






The Black Trinity of sexiness in comics!

[kendra]

I don't know anything about Jews creating all the comics... That sounds racist in and of itself. But I find it hard for anyone to say racism didn't play a factor in character creation when we're talking about the 1930s-1960s.

I'm not saying everyone was racist or that they're racist now but it was a different time.

As for Japan and Korea, those are countries where extremely small percentages are of a different race, America is far more diverse. That being said you'd expect roughly 12% of heroines to be black, if things matched demographics. Anyone expecting an even split will be disappointed.

[kendra]

And there are some hot black heroines and heroes no doubt. For some reason in porn black people aren't in much cosplay or bdsm stuff.

[kendra]

And I'm not trying to offend anyone, just thought I'd offer one possibility...

[KennyLoggins]

The only important question producers are asking is : How I can do the highest long term profit with this niche market ? Quick, find me a low cost highly profitable Beyoncé/Rihanna/Halle Berry look-alike that deceiving new market interest group was always looking for but nobody never told us anything about it.

That or try to pull out another Springtime for Hitler disguised as Catwoman, honestly. So far that black catwoman had a highly successful survival rate under the careful exploits of white porn actresses nonetheless.

[KennyLoggins]

And there are some hot black heroines and heroes no doubt. For some reason in porn black people aren't in much cosplay or bdsm stuff.

Accordingly to Byalistock First Law of Bloom under the appropriate circumstances a flop can be more profitable than a blockbuster. Therefore, the only reason for us the audience never had the chance to see Zacharias Sneeger masterpiece Suppaman vs PappaWatusi Dawn of Kwanzaa guest starring Charlie Theron as Soul African American Wonder Woman was because the movie was so black not even light could scape it's own gravitational pool, not even Christopher Reeves Superman could make the Earth spinning backwards that fast to rescue such a work that could only be described as pure genius.

[KennyLoggins]

And I'm not trying to offend anyone, just thought I'd offer one possibility...

With all due respect Private but if you are not offending any one even without trying that only means you are not trying hard enough.

Meanwhile others might argue from experience that if anyone gets offend with whatever you might trying NOT to say maybe you should consider you might stop NOT trying too hard.

Don't worry, that's the kind of spindoctiring you only get after years of experience and hard practicing with the sharpest and yet moderated minds in forumforensicisms, just ask any Dr with 9 ways of bdsm experience under his male corset or some Hypnosis expert they know better.

[shevek]

Again, it's very simple - if you want to see black superheroines in porn, start by producing videos with the three characters I depicted above - Misty Knight, Storm and Vixen - and go from there.

Kendra, if you're not aware about how Jews created comics, look into the history of comic book creation from the 1930s to the 1970s. Of the creators of the three most famous DC Comics heroes, two were Jewish. Of the creators of the 10 most famous Marvel Comics heroes (including Captain America himself), ALL OF THEM were Jewish. That happened in an America where Jews were only 2% of the population.

Almost every major comic book creator was Jewish: Jack Kirby, Bob Kane, Siegel & Shuster, Stan Lee, Joe Simon, Marv Wolfman, Archie Goodwin, Neil Gaiman, it just goes on and on. It's not racist, it's simply a fact. I'm culturally Jewish, and I'm proud of that fact. Here's the explanation: for a long time, Jews weren't considered "white" (certainly the Nazis didn't consider them white in the 1940s, and they weren't the only ones who believed that). During that time, there were anti-Semitic quotes at many major universities, and biases against hiring Jews in some major professions. The modern stereotype of the Jewish doctor/lawyer/accountant? That wasn't so much a thing back then because of anti-Semitism (there were some Jewish scientists, though, especially in Europe).

As a result, Jews were mostly businessmen (carrying over the tradition of being peddlers from the old country - the Pale of Settlement in Eastern Europe/Russia, where the professions that Jews could practice were severely restricted for hundreds of years) and one of the businesses they pioneered was the entertainment industry. The stereotype of "Jews control Hollywood" has many kernels of truth in it because Jews created many of the early motion picture studios (eg Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer aka MGM). They also pioneered some of the early record labels, especially when it came to "Negro" music like jazz. That's because, as cultural outsiders, they were more likely to fraternize and identify with blacks and their musical culture, and as social liberals they also had the tendency to champion the underdog.

The same thing is true in comics: characters like Superman, Batman, Spiderman, Fantastic Four, the Hulk, Iron Man, and so on were created by Jews partially because of underdog power fantasies. Jews were often the "nerds" of the day, and the creation of superheroes helped them live out their dreams of gaining power in an America whose values of equality and freedom they believed in despite the fact that anti-Semitic kids would beat them up and taunt them on the streets. If you couldn't win in a street fight, you went home and created heroes in your bedroom that could defeat all the nasty criminal Gentiles. Superman himself is named "Kal-El" which is a Hebrew phrase meaning "All-God". It's a touching and poignant story of cultural triumph, really, and one that's uniquely American.

And it hasn't stopped..although comic book creators have been much more diverse as of late, you can still see the Jewish influences. To get a bit feminist here, read the story arc in Bombshells where Batwoman/Kathy Kane (who is Jewish) goes around calling everyone "Mommeleh" (a Yiddish term of endearment) and a Jewish girl persecuted by the Nazis becomes "Miri Marvel" (the Jewish version of Mary Marvel) after reciting the names of seven Biblical heroines who spell 'Shazam'. Check the creation of the sexy Israeli heroine Sabra (first seen in the pages of the Hulk..when are we going to see a nice SHIP video with her?), which was actually attributed to a Jewish woman, Belinda Glass. And of course the famous Brian Michael Bendis (for all the recent bullshit he's pulled recently at Marvel, we have to credit him for earlier genius like Powers and Jessica Jones) is Jewish, a real social justice warrior that one.

---

As for the percentages of black characters in comics and TV shows, I think we are rapidly approaching 12% at this point if not surpassing it. Certainly every CW show, for example, has one or two major black characters. But you see, that's not what the third-wave intersectional types
(prime example: Ta-Nehisi Coates) want. They believe in "reparations" and "equity" (basically a kind of society-wide affirmative action) in all things, and you're right, they expect and demand that Characters of Color (and female and LGBT characters etc) attain 50/50 parity with white characters or even surpass them, and they are willing to throw as many "white cis male" characters under the bus to do this. They also want every comic book story to tell their particular politically-correct narrative. That's the approach that Marvel's readership has rejected. You don't throw out the baby with the bathwater..you simply make more babies.

I also think there's a good point to be made about what Kendra said about not a lot of blacks in fetish & BDSM. And I think this can be easily
explained by culture and economics. Culturally, black culture is conservative and church-based. So, perversion (including homosexuality) is largely frowned upon. Black culture is also very virile. So displays of weakness (such as nerds who love comics) is also frowned upon. Sure, black dudes love strong superheroes at the movies like anyone else. But they don't generally nerd out about it like white folks do. So if the black nerds that do exist are looked down upon in their own community (and they basically have to join white culture for support), and if sexual deviance is also seen as a problem, then you can understand why blacks are much more 'downlow' about such matters than whites are. Of course nobody can make a complete generalization but I think that explains it culturally. To a certain extent, other minority cultures are the same way: Asian culture is conservative, and so is Latino culture (although in different ways than black culture).

When economics comes into play, it makes even more sense. BDSM/fetish is decadent, and it is a middle-to-upper-class privileged pursuit. That has been the case since at least the days of the Roman Empire and the Greek city-states. You can't be decadent unless you have the money and the leisure time. Many black communities (and those of some other minorities, but not Asian) are lower-income. So there is more need for day-to-day survival, and not so much for extravagant decadence. When you can't afford a $35 BDSM video clip, or when you can't afford the bondage gear or the dominatrix services, you don't participate. And instead you settle for pirated movies (burned copies of movies is a big thing in black communities..I lived in a black area for a while and constantly got solicited by the neighborhood CD bootlegger), or video games, or free porn, or whatever you can do that doesn't cost you very much. I'm sure wherever there are middle-class black communities (again, Atlanta is a good example) there are probably higher incidences of blacks participating in BDSM as either producers or consumers. I think the same holds true for comics - they're expensive to buy on a regular basis, and only certain nerds with the wherewithal to do so will be able to keep up and thus develop a lifelong interest in the superhero genre.

[shevek]

Also, Kenny Loggins, you are almost as hilarious as Mel Brooks. Almost, being the operative word.

[KennyLoggins]

Also, Kenny Loggins, you are almost as hilarious as Mel Brooks. Almost, being the operative word.

I love you too Dude. Mazel Tov!

[kendra]

I think we all basically agree... Mostly. It's hard to get at why but the facts are
A) There's less black heroines
B) There's less cosplay/bondage porn with black actors

Case solved.

[Mr. X]

Just because something was in the past does not mean everyone was racist or beating their kids or practicing witch craft.

There is/was racism in every country on earth. That does not mean everything they ever did was motivated by racism. And yes the US was predominantly white back then. Way white.

Also lets look at other groups. Irish, Pols, Jews. All got the short end of the stick as well at some point. Is Jazz racist because it was predominantly dominated by blacks? Is basketball racist because the players are mostly black? Are romance novels sexist because they vastly favor a female audience?

BTW what would one call a fetish of seeing white women nailed by large black men? Is that racist? Racist against whom? Whites? Blacks?

We also don't see a lot of eskimos. Racism?

Please. The word racist has meaning. Don't wear it out. I don't think people appreciate being called pedophiles cause they have a fetish for sailor moon.

[mangog3000]

I just wanted to point out that I created my "Panther Girl" character way back in the early 1970s. I mailed a letter to Marvel comics, maybe in 1973, don't quite remember right now, detailing an origin story for the character. I thought that it would be fun to see Monica having adventures with Shanna the She-Devil. If they had acted on it in time, Panther Girl would have pre-dated Storm of the X-Men ; but I suspect that the letter was lost in the mail. Never heard back from them!

[kendra]

Those aren't directly comparable, being that fictional characters are created as whatever the creator wants as opposed to personnel that, ideally, are there because they sought it out and are talented.

Race issues are complex and I'm not saying racism was the only factor or the deciding factor but when we're dealing with a time period where a racial group didn't have equal rights it's hard to say it had zero factor. That's just an opinion though, based on a specific time.

[tallyho]

I'm in favour - a pretty gal is a pretty gal irrespective of colour

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[Richpartist]

I prefer white women,nothing racist in a preference.there have been on rare occasions lovely black heroines,I mean Storm helped me get through puberty in the nicest way

[Visitor]

We also don't see a lot of eskimos. Racism?

There was one as a mechanic helping out Green Lantern.

[GeekyPornCritic]

Lack of black heroines... Largely because most characters are from long ago, when things were much more racist. New characters don't do well.

Ok I didn't want to get involved with this thread cause I KNEW it was a kafka trap but I have to object to this.

White characters were not in comics cause of racism. If a black dude would sell, they would put a black guy in. And BTW the comic industry was almost entirely created by Jews. White people don't do X cause they are racist.

BTW are nearly all Japanese anime characters Japanese cause racism? Or is it cause the vast majority of the country is... oh I don't know... Japanese? How about China? How about South Korea? Akiba-web has like maybe 2 videos with white girls and the rest are all Japanese/Asian girls. Are they racist?

Please do NOT call people racist. The word has meaning.

There is some racism in the comic book industry. It's not as strong as it was in the early days. Look at the first black superheroes. Most of them were based on racism and brought no progress to the industry. Falcon was the first good back superhero. Standards have greatly changed and we have some characters from minority groups.

[Blx]

I don't really care. Black, white, asian, hispanic. I like everything and everyone, as long as they're hot

[Mr. X]

There is some racism in the comic book industry. It's not as strong as it was in the early days. Look at the first black superheroes. Most of them were based on racism and brought no progress to the industry. Falcon was the first good back superhero. Standards have greatly changed and we have some characters from minority groups.

Just curious. What were the whites based on? Diverse people? Or social stereotypes?

I'd say we have more stereotyping today than in the past especially when token characters are put into the mix. BTW the vast vast majority of villains in comics were also whites, specifically white men. Except for war propaganda stuff. Doom, Lex Luthor, Nearly all of Batman's rogue galley. Maybe red skull is technically red? Loki.

[avenger]

I think there's a lack of bare legs in heroine porn. Too much pantyhose....

[kendra]

I think there's a lack of bare legs in heroine porn. Too much pantyhose....

Yes!! I like thigh high stuff, stockings, socks or boots, but that's as high as I want it to go.

[Incubus]

I think there's a lack of bare legs in heroine porn. Too much pantyhose....

You can never get too much, of a good thing. Unless of course you've been diabolically inculcated to posses a capricious aversion to what is indubitably arousing.

Sexy as F, to deny it is to deny the unmitigated truth.

My opening salvo.

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If that doesn't give you a woody, you're already dead........

[MightyHypnotic]

I think there's a lack of bare legs in heroine porn. Too much pantyhose....

Avenger has been banned for 1 terasecond.

[MightyHypnotic]

Asian Angels. Blatant racism.

[cdrei]

One of my favorite books about the comics industry is The Comic Book Heroes, by Gerard Jones and Will Jacobs. It's probably biased and inaccurate in the usual range of ways for such books, but it at least presents a pretty thorough look at the comics industry and the superhero genre from the dawn of the Silver Age until about the time of the 1996 industry crisis. There's an interesting bit in there about race in comics.

"In those years [1960s] comics publishers forbade portraying black people, unless bongo-beating 'natives' were called for, fearing that Southern retailers would return the books unsold. The same year Sgt. Fury appeared -- the year after the Civil Rights Movement's March on Washington -- DC reprinted an adaptation of Ian Fleming's Dr. No, originally published in England, and had all the locals colored pink, even though they were obviously drawn as black people, and the story was explicitly set in Jamaica."

Not long ago I was reading back through some old Neal Adams DC comics, from the late '60s and early '70s. I recall seeing multiple cases of supporting characters being drawn with (somewhat exaggerated and obvious) ethnically black features, but colored as Caucasians. So possibly the tendency noted in the above quote continued into the seventies. Or I may have misinterpreted visual cues in the illustrations, Neal Adams may not have intended the characters to be black at all, the colorist wasn't paying attention and just robotically painted everyone the same color, whatever.

Given that the majority of iconic superhero genre characters -- those which are broadly recognized and have significant cultural exposure -- were created during the Golden and Silver ages, pretty much all of them are white. Fandoms tend to resist significant change, so any easy solution to the lack of racial diversity among big name superhero characters tends to run up against roadblocks. Not long ago there was an internet brouhaha over the idea of Donald Glover being cast as Peter Parker. There's a secondary debate surrounding that conflict, over whether the reaction to the idea of casting Glover as Parker was motivated by racism or was just fans resisting change and favoring nostalgia. If a character's racial background is casually changed, people freak out. "Why not just create a new character?" they seem to ask. But a new character will lack that iconic status, and may be ignored by fans and readers. Racial diversification among mainstream, popular superhero characters has been a slow process, but it's gradually happening. The kids who read comics now seem to demand the idea, embracing progress over tradition. Old second-tier characters are being elevated to first-tier status, in some cases. Cyborg is going to be in the upcoming JLA movie, apparently. Black Lightning, once considered one of the embarrassing exploitation characters of the 1970s, was mainstreamed some time ago, and now seems pretty cool. Nick Fury was re-cast across racial lines in Marvel's film-friendly alternate-continuity line of comics. Astro City has a huge cast of black characters, with over half of the current lineup of its Justice League/Avengers team being black. Eartha Kitt was cast as Catwoman in 1967, and the X-Men have been increasingly racially diverse since the seventies, so it's been a long process.

As far as heroine porn goes, I suppose I can only speculate based on myself. I don't have a lot of money to throw at material. When I buy something, it's probably going to feature a fairly faithful rendition of a character I already know, a character on which I would have developed a porn-y interest back when I was a youngster. So, like 30-35 years ago, now, back when comics characters were all white. Upon encountering an alternate take on one of my fave characters, I might admire the effort being made, but I would bet I'd save my money, hoping for some more faithful later treatment.

[avenger]

I think there's a lack of bare legs in heroine porn. Too much pantyhose....

Avenger has been banned for 1 terasecond.

That terasecond ban was a little harsh I thought, but I definitely learned my lesson....

[shevek]

Really..Astro City's superteam is now 50% black characters? Must be a while since I've read a new issue, then, because I've read most of the older Busiek TPBs (Astro City is pure genius, to put it bluntly) and the only black character of the Honor Guard was Cleopatra....

Maybe you're thinking of the "2000" era Honor Guard? There were six members and half of them were black: Cleopatra II, MPH, and Black Rapier.
But that's no longer the case: in the newer "2013-17" lineup, there are about nine members and two of them are black: Cleopatra II and MPH (Rapier
had since retired). Winged Victory and Samaritan are back! Just bringing you up to date

I think overall the "blackening" of comics characters continues unabated, especially when you're talking about secondary and tertiary characters.
In the thread about the Riverdale show, I noted that for the first time *all three* of the members of Josie & the Pussycats were not only intentionally
made black, but the mission of the band was stated by Josie's mother as wanting to *stay* black. That had never been part of the Pussycats' mythos
in the past - usually they were just a teen-pop band. There's obviously an agenda from the writers.

Cyborg, by the way, is a great example of using a secondary character better, rather than throwing a white cis male under the bus in the process.

[Femina]

Just because something was in the past does not mean everyone was racist or beating their kids or practicing witch craft.

There is/was racism in every country on earth. That does not mean everything they ever did was motivated by racism. And yes the US was predominantly white back then. Way white.

Right but it's pretty naive to just say 'there was no racism in the comic industry in the past because... Jewish?' It's absolutely true that not everything that appears racist by hapinstance is racism, but it WAS there, there WERE racist people and you can't just say 'nah it was all cool' any more than you can say 'it was all racism!'

Also lets look at other groups. Irish, Pols, Jews. All got the short end of the stick as well at some point. Is Jazz racist because it was predominantly dominated by blacks? Is basketball racist because the players are mostly black? Are romance novels sexist because they vastly favor a female audience?

Yes, sort of and sort of. Jazz shouldn't be dominated by blacks if there are white people that want to jazz, this is similar to the 'keep Harlem black' stuff, it's racism spawned by intense culturalism. Basketball should be playable by whoever wants to play basketball, but there are more white players than people think... just less, and if you want to read romance novels than by god, you should be able to read romance novels without a bunch of people telling you that you cant.

One also can't really compare what happened with Irish, polish and even the Jews to African American where AMERICA is concerned. Slavery existed solely for blacks in America, that's where the racism's heart is at, the origin. It was a big deal, and it lasted a long time, to long NOT to leave an impact, and while by and large as a culture we've grown up, that impact is still causing waves, and the further back you look the more powerful those waves were.

BTW what would one call a fetish of seeing white women nailed by large black men? Is that racist? Racist against whom? Whites? Blacks?

That's just a fetish for mixed coupling? That's sort of the opposite of racism... Unless there's something sinister going on?

We also don't see a lot of eskimos. Racism?

No we don't, we see some on occasion, but yeah very very few. Sort of unfortunate there as well, certainly there's fewer anorexic stick figures in the Eskamo's camp.

Please. The word racist has meaning. Don't wear it out. I don't think people appreciate being called pedophiles cause they have a fetish for sailor moon.

And finally this... to which I can only say, if the word was going to wear out, it'd have done so somewhere in the last three hundred years. If the word is necessary, or even just relevant it has to be used or else you've got to work up a whole stupid sentence just to describe it every time. "A person or group who is/are irrationally and emotionally negatively affected by the merest notion, reference or indication of a person, place or thing that is of or pertaining to another race of human being.'......... I'll stick with 'Racism'

[shevek]

"Slavery existed solely for blacks in America."

Not at all the case. I can elaborate on the entire history of slavery, both in the Americas and in world history, as well as the actual origin of the word "slave". If you want me to. "Blacks in America" is only a part of the overall picture. Very significant, of course, but not even the largest part.

[KennyLoggins]

Honestly I think there is a lack of so many ethnicities in general because of the decline of Hypnotic oriented materials in the past decades.

So much stuff get used against Supergirl but the Alien only brainwashed her mind once outside her own show.

Where are The Powers That Be when we need the industry in order to "convince" the masses of drones to taste more chocolate ?

Help to start a Patreon right now and demand more custom videos from Hypnoticsworld.com, you money will provide more Kyber Crystals for the HypnoCams.

[cdrei]

Really..Astro City's superteam is now 50% black characters? Must be a while since I've read a new issue, then, because I've read most of the older Busiek TPBs (Astro City is pure genius, to put it bluntly) and the only black character of the Honor Guard was Cleopatra....

I was under the impression that the Assemblyman was black, but... I dunno. I may be misinterpreting visual cues somehow. I catch up on the title through the trade paperbacks, of which the Honor Guard TPB is current. The team changes its lineup during the course of the book, with a few stories about characters leaving, some of them current, others in the past. It's not inconceivable that I've grown confused about the current lineup. Now that I look at it, I'm not sure they have a seventh member by the end of the book, if Winged Victory is still just an ally of the team and not a proper member. So it may be three white and three black members, currently. When I wrote the above post, I had convinced myself that there was a fourth minority character, but I may have been thinking of the N-Forcer redesign and how I thought it was oddly similar to the Assemblyman redesign, which could have lodged in my memory as there being a fourth black character. So, in short... umm.

At any rate, Astro City is pretty good about including minority characters as top-tier heroes.

[shevek]

You're right, the second Assemblyman is black! So overall, I guess Busiek loves to include black characters, CDRei.
Maybe some video producers could take a tip from him.

Or maybe they could just do a porn where Winged Victory and Samaritan fuck in mid-air like in the comic

[Femina]

"Slavery existed solely for blacks in America."

Not at all the case. I can elaborate on the entire history of slavery, both in the Americas and in world history, as well as the actual origin of the word "slave". If you want me to. "Blacks in America" is only a part of the overall picture. Very significant, of course, but not even the largest part.

Well I narrowed it to America for a reason, there's no time or reason for the purposes of this topic to go over World slavery because it has very little to do with the American history of racism. There were some Irish slaves as well if I recall, and 'indentured servitude' etc... but by no means do any of them approach what occurred with black slaves in the states, and it absolutely WAS the largest part IN America. It is the route of the racist problem in America, and while time and distance from slavery and the impacts of slavery abolition repair the fracture, the farther back you look the worse the issue was... and as pertaining to this topic at the very least, the era where comics began were very far from exceedingly racially tolerant.

[shevek]

Well, because you don't have to go over the history of slavery in the world, you're not grasping that overall, slavery isn't primarily about "racism" per se (although racism is used as a secondary excuse for it). It's about *power*, the same way that rape isn't just about sexism, but also about power. Really, almost everything is really about power, which boils down to the individual's social status in a group, or the individual's group status in a larger clan or nation. And of course, it's about profit, because when you profit, you grow more powerful.

The truth is that the West learned how to conduct commercial slavery from those who were already experts in it: the Turks, the Arabs, the Mongols, and Africans themselves. And not only that, Westerners arrived in an environment where slavery was already commonplace..various native American tribes enslaved other tribes, and the Aztec and Inca empires (which were both at around the same level of technology that the Assyrians & Babylonians had been 2500 years earlier) enslaved, displaced and slaughtered conquered peoples. I think that's very relevant, how North Americans and Europeans (not just in the United States, but in the Caribbean and Latin America etc..there were not only Irish slaves but plenty of indigenous American slaves as well) perfected and honed a brutal practice that had existed in varied forms around the world for thousands of years. And still exists today worldwide in many of those varied forms. It's also quite notable that the West, in fact, was the first civilization to en masse realize what an evil slavery was, and to ban it across the board: by the mid to late 1800s, slavery was banned in all Western nations and the New World colonies that had arisen from them. The West is *ahead* of the world average when it comes to eliminating human exploitation, it's not behind the game.

The word "slave" itself is a racist term. It's an ethnic slur against Slavs. The word "Slav" was an ethnonym from the Slavic "slovo" (word) and the related "slava" (fame/glory/praise), as in the Russian phrase "slava Bogu" (thanks to God). It had the positive connotation of a well-spoken and glorified people. That word was taken, first by the Romans (sclabo) who encountered the Slavs on the edge of their empire bordering Dacia and Thrace, and then by all of medieval Europe and debased into a synonym for someone in servitude, because the Slavs were the whipping boys of Europe (especially taken by the tens of thousands by the Turks of the Ottoman Empire). To use "slave" to describe someone in servitude is thus nearly equivalent to using "gyp" or "Jew" as a verb for ripping someone off. It's just several shades of meaning removed, so nobody thinks about it.

I wonder if the people talking about the history of American slavery - the ones who are supposedly so sensitive to ethnic slurs and cultural appropriation - even realize they're doing that.

Anyway..of course there was plenty of racism in America in the era when comics began. Of course it affected the portrayal of ethnic minorities in
comics. But it doesn't have to anymore. It simply doesn't have to, and it shouldn't. This isn't 1957, this is 2017. We're not worried anymore about whether Southern comics retailers are going to return issues with black people in them. That's why there should be as many ORIGINAL (not race-swapped) characters of every race and ethnicity in comics as possible. If people don't like new characters, too bad. Keep introducing more and more new characters until there are so many that people simply can't help but pay attention. And put money behind the efforts!

[Mr. X]

Ok I give up. Yes there are no black characters cause we whities are all racist. Ok can we move on now.

[LadySapphire]

*sees topic...clicks*

*immediately see posts about slavery...types this...clicks off*