Custom Requests - Do they help or hinder the biz?

[heroinehunter]

A friend of mine and I had a amicable debate - one very simple question:

Do custom requests help or hinder the superheroine fetish business?

I am interested in the opinion of fans and producers alike. Thanks.

[Kookie]

Imo, it really depends on the customer. If the customer is creative and can write a really good script/story and pick a compatible actress, this will really help with sales for the producer and broaden the genre by funding movies with creative storyline.

If the customer is bad at writing script or just wants something mainstream i.e. They just want the heroine to be beaten up and then raped in the end. Which, we can all agree is very boring at this point of time. This definitely hinders the genre because sales won't be as high as it will interest less people and the time consumed to produce these kind of movies really hinders the opportunity for a good movie to come out (if any).

[MightyHypnotic]

Since this was a debate, I'd like to hear what the argument was for hindering the biz. How many times have you watched a superheroine movie and think "Wow, I wish they had done this, or expanded on that?"
Or sometimes watching a movie inspires you to come up with an idea that has never been done before A custom video makes this a reality. It's how I got started producing my own content. So from that standpoint I think it absolutely helps.

I also get that you buy from certain producers because they create videos that cater to your specific interests and if they are putting out custom ideas then the field gets muddied by a lot of content you're not interested in. Of course you have a choice not to purchase it but it reminds me of when I bought comic books, you were always waiting for that next issue and had expectations of what you wanted to see. I totally understand that point.

Personally, I don't see that as a problem but even if it is, I don't see it going away. It's just another way of doing business and as our business changes we have to find new ways to try and meet those challenges and doing customs are a way of doing that.

[Heroine Addict]

As long as the client is clear about what they realistically expect and the producer delivers the video at the agreed price, I don't see a problem with customs.

However, the tendency of many producers to want payment as a "gift" on PayPal is the online equivalent of shiftily handing over a bag of cash to someone in the park. The occasions when these deals turn sour affect the entire community, as other potential customers ask themselves whether they really want to take the risk.

Without wishing to re-litigate the issues several of us had with a certain producer who no longer posts here, I don't have much trust in this part of the industry.

[TIEnTEEZ]

It not immediately obvious to me how custom videos could HURT the biz. Although it really depends on what you mean by "biz".
For producers, I have to imagine that customs are a huge boon. There are tremendous advantages:
1) There's less risk. You already have someone paying for it, so even if it doesn't sell fantastically well you are likely to make some kinda of profit (or at least lose less).
2) Since there's less risk, you can make bigger and better movies, hire better talent, put more into the costumes, etc.
3) You spend a lot less time coming up with ideas - since most of the idea is provided for you.

From the viewers perspective, I think it's something of a mixed bag.

On the plus side - If there's someone out there who shares your fetishes and who has the money, you end up getting more and better content in videos that are available for sale at normal prices and it doesn't cost you extra.

The only down side I can see is that if you don't have the money to buy customs yourself, it's possible that your favorite producer COULD spend all their time doing customs that may not necessarily be what you want or fit your fetish.

[viking]

After reading posts from many different producers over the years, it seems to me that they imply that customs are the only thing that has kept them from going broke. If they weren't producing customs they couldn't stay in business only producing and selling super heroine videos for us to purchase. We are, after all, a diverse and fickled market.

[vnv7272]

I guess the one thing I don't get, and it depends on how good a customer's script is done, but they are providing a script and paying the producer to make it, and not getting any piece of the sales (if the producer does release the video and not provide it only to the customer).
,
If someone is providing a quality script, shouldn't they be a partner in the production?

I get that as long as people are willing to pay, then producers are going to provide the service, but it seems to me that the producers that release the video to public sales get the benefit of someone else paying for much (or all) of production and have a script provided. The producer then provides the equipment, organizing of location and actors, and vision to bring the script to the screen.

Everyone is providing value, but the cost is oddly placed on the people that provide the original idea, without them getting any monetary value, though the do get to see their vision come to life.

I guess if I were to provide a producer with a good script, I would expect to be compensated for providing content they can use to make a movie, not charged in order to have it made.

TLDR: I guess what I am getting at, is if producers are not making content unless they are paid up front, two things are happening.

1. There may be good script ideas out there that are not making it to producers, or producers are not making unless they get paid up front.
2. Producers are not taking chances on producing products up front if they are waiting on customs, so we end up with less content out there.

In regards to #2, I get there is a lot of cost and risk to producers to make content up front.

[TIEnTEEZ]

I guess the one thing I don't get, and it depends on how good a customer's script is done, but they are providing a script and paying the producer to make it, and not getting any piece of the sales (if the producer does release the video and not provide it only to the customer).
,
If someone is providing a quality script, shouldn't they be a partner in the production?

I get that as long as people are willing to pay, then producers are going to provide the service, but it seems to me that the producers that release the video to public sales get the benefit of someone else paying for much (or all) of production and have a script provided. The producer then provides the equipment, organizing of location and actors, and vision to bring the script to the screen.

Everyone is providing value, but the cost is oddly placed on the people that provide the original idea, without them getting any monetary value, though the do get to see their vision come to life.

I guess if I were to provide a producer with a good script, I would expect to be compensated for providing content they can use to make a movie, not charged in order to have it made.

TLDR: I guess what I am getting at, is if producers are not making content unless they are paid up front, two things are happening.

1. There may be good script ideas out there that are not making it to producers, or producers are not making unless they get paid up front.
2. Producers are not taking chances on producing products up front if they are waiting on customs, so we end up with less content out there.

In regards to #2, I get there is a lot of cost and risk to producers to make content up front.

The problem with this assessment is the economics. It doesn't work that way.

Suppose, for example, that I write a script. I think it's fantastic, of course, because I wrote it and I put all the things I like into it.

But that doesn't mean it's going to sell. That doesn't mean other people will like it. I don't know for sure, but I suspect that almost never happens. The reason I write custom scripts in the first place is that I want the contents of the video to be tailored specifically to ME and MY tastes. Which is a completely different goal then a producer who writes a script he wants to sell and make money on.

This isn't a business where producers get rich. The markup on videos is relatively small, the online stores like Clips4Sale take a BIG chunk of the profits and (I've been told) that many of the videos you see on those store NEVER make a profit for the producers. And those are the ones that are made specifically to by the producers to appeal to a large audience and sell well.

I could maybe understand a producer saying something like this:

Okay... IF this video sells REALLY well and I make a profit above X number of dollars, I will give you back Y percent of the profits. But even that becomes extremely cumbersome, because now this producer has the added burden of tracking the exact profit of an individual video, doing the calculations and sending funds to the person who wrote it continuously for however long that video is sold - which could literally be forever. Add to that the fact that some of these producers are basically just individuals working out of their own homes and it's really not feasible.

Just the simple fact that no producer out there has even tried to make this kind of arrangement seems to be a pretty strong indication that the market simply won't support it.

[MightyHypnotic]

This is an accurate response. Things start to get really sticky when you look to split profits. The easier way would be to charge the customer more money and give them all the files and let them release it on their own. A producer could include the editing for an additional cost.

[Kitten]

A lot would be determined by the terms of the request, how much is being charged, and if the producer gets to resell the custom afterwards (and if so how wide appealing the video custom is).

That said, I dont think it can ever be 'bad' for business. If the producer doesnt like what he's hearing for the custom, he walks away from it. Either the client will have to find another producer, or realize that what he wants, is not feasible, and at that point, if he wants to see it done, they dip their toe in the producer's pool and become a producer.

[vnv7272]

This is an accurate response. Things start to get really sticky when you look to split profits. The easier way would be to charge the customer more money and give them all the files and let them release it on their own. A producer could include the editing for an additional cost.

I agree with that. If the producer is comfortable with the profit they make, maybe having the ownership of the pics/film go to the person paying makes sense.

[Heroine Addict]

If the producer is comfortable with the profit they make, maybe having the ownership of the pics/film go to the person paying makes sense.

Are you talking about the customer inheriting the rights after the required profit margin has been reached? Meaning that the video gets removed from the producer's store. Or do you mean the customer pays the entire production cost plus the producer's margin, in order to buy the sole rights, as MH was suggesting?

Either option makes the video unavailable to the general public. Unless the customer is willing to jump through the hoops required to personally set up a clipstore (or get card processing for their own site) and comply with 2257 record keeping regs.

[TIEnTEEZ]

If the producer is comfortable with the profit they make, maybe having the ownership of the pics/film go to the person paying makes sense.

Are you talking about the customer inheriting the rights after the required profit margin has been reached? Meaning that the video gets removed from the producer's store. Or do you mean the customer pays the entire production cost plus the producer's margin, in order to buy the sole rights, as MH was suggesting?

Either option makes the video unavailable to the general public. Unless the customer is willing to jump through the hoops required to personally set up a clipstore (or get card processing for their own site) and comply with 2257 record keeping regs.

Pretty sure they mean that the person who ordered the custom gets the custom and the producer never sells it. I know some producers who do something like this, where they will charge extra to make the video "exclusive." They send a copy to the purchaser and that's it.

I dunno if any of those producers are either explicitly or implicitly giving the purchaser the right to sell that video on their own, though. That's a different story.

I certainly can't imagine a situation where a producer would sell a video up to a certain profit threshold and them pull it. That doesn't make any sense. Once it's out there, it's out there, and refusing to sell it after it's been sold to a few people is just begging for your video to be pirated. Everyone loses in that scenario. Not to mention that you run straight back into the problem where the producer now has to do bookkeeping to track the profits of an individual video.

Frankly, I never really understood why you would want a custom to be elusive to you. It means you have to pay more, since the producer won't be making a profit from other sales. I guess if you write a custom about something particularly embarrassing it might make sense. But it's not like anyone will know who wrote your custom unless you tell them.

[MightyHypnotic]

If the producer is comfortable with the profit they make, maybe having the ownership of the pics/film go to the person paying makes sense.

Are you talking about the customer inheriting the rights after the required profit margin has been reached? Meaning that the video gets removed from the producer's store. Or do you mean the customer pays the entire production cost plus the producer's margin, in order to buy the sole rights, as MH was suggesting?

Either option makes the video unavailable to the general public. Unless the customer is willing to jump through the hoops required to personally set up a clipstore (or get card processing for their own site) and comply with 2257 record keeping regs.

I took it to mean that a producer would not only charge the customer all the expenses involved in making the content, (talent, filming, editing, costumes, etc) but would also add a percentage as profit.

It's like if you order a custom costume, the store isn't only going to charge you the costs to make the item, they're going to want to make some money off of it.

And if you look at it THAT way, then getting a custom for just the cost of the girls and nothing else isn't a bad deal. And it's true, maybe that custom will hit a home run, maybe not. IT's always a gamble...

[heroinehunter]

Hello Friends -
Thanks for your responses. Please understand mine are from a perspective of a fan that has done one custom and this is my experiences with it (and I usually play devil's advocate):

It sounds like customs are positive for everyone, fans and producers alike....mostly. It depends upon how good or bad the storyline is, but then again the customer is paying for a certain product that is tailored to their specific tastes. There is also the fact that a person may have a limited budget for a custom. Mine is based on a segment I saw back in the day (a lady named Penny went South of the Border for awhile) - I just wanted a variation of it starring a certain superheroine. I can see how this can be misconstrued as yet another 'capture and beatdown' vid, but it is my ultimate superheroine fetish fantasy that I always wanted to see taken off the proverbial bucket list. I will admit that once I accomplished my custom goal, I really wasn't too much interested in any more vids or models out there anymore. I was happy with what I have and could step away from other vids easily now.
The point made about splitting profits is interesting.....and one that came up during the friendly debate. Example: a customer requests a custom and it's made for $500 which is paid fully by the customer. The producer turns and sells it on their site for $30 a download. 1000 pervy boys and girls download it. $30,000 profit. You can't throw a small percentage at the customer as a thank you since they did provide the story idea and initial payment for you to get started? I just bought you a car!!! I fully understand that the producer has provided a service, but being very knowledgeable about the fact that a person is making a big profit off of your ideas actually does not want you to do another custom or share ideas anymore. One and done. If a producer did share a small percentage of the profits it would encourage a customer to continue doing customs and written better ideas.
The other aspect of concern as a customer is illegal downloading. I never want to see my custom vid that I paid my hard earned money for out there for someone else to download for free (no offense fellow pervs). I know this also a major concern for the producers - the company I went through is very diligent in regards to keeping their work off the sites. Even I have taken a 'watchdog' attitude - knowing it would upset me greatly if I did see it out there and discourage me from doing another.

[TIEnTEEZ]

1000 pervy boys and girls download it. $30,000 profit.

I think this is where your idea falls apart. I don't know for sure - I'm not a producer.
But from what I hear, my understanding is that 1000 downloads is completely unheard of. I would imaging that even achieving 100 (that's 100 and not 1000) downloads is pretty rare. So you didn't buy him a car. In the best possible case you bought him a months rent and some groceries (I'm arbitrarily assuming he lives in New York City here where rents are, in fact, that high because it's my analogy and I can do what I want).

Like I said, I'm not a producer so what do I know? Maybe an actual producer can jump in here and give us some realistic numbers.

The other aspect of concern as a customer is illegal downloading. I never want to see my custom vid that I paid my hard earned money for out there for someone else to download for free (no offense fellow pervs). I know this also a major concern for the producers - the company I went through is very diligent in regards to keeping their work off the sites. Even I have taken a 'watchdog' attitude - knowing it would upset me greatly if I did see it out there and discourage me from doing another.

This is puzzling to me. I can understand why a producer would care that his work is being pirated. Every times someone steals a copy of that producers video, he loses money - although that's probably not even technically true, because the prevailing wisdom is that people who pirate digital goods probably wouldn't have bought them anyway. If someone is willing to pay for something he will and if he's not, he will either steal it or go without. Making it harder to steal just means more people go without, it doesn't translate directly to more sales.

But if you pay $500 and you got your video and you are happy with it, what does it matter to you whether it's pirated? Other than the general societal inclination that stealing is wrong and that other people shouldn't get away with it, you weren't going to make any more money it no matter what. So from a strictly personal or financial perspective, it doesn't affect you at all.

[Heroine Addict]

I'm not sure many producers sell 1,000 downloads of a single video. A lot of them are glad to get sales in the hundreds.

The studios that are getting anywhere near 1,000 sales are likely to be the ones who own their studio space and props. So they have a load of overheads which will soon eat up much of the revenue.

[Mr. X]

Hundreds? Try 10s... maybe. I doubt a lot of videos recoup their expenditure. Its sales over time that is the key.

[heroinehunter]

Actually download theft does affect the customer...if they have a desire to do another video. A producer might be willing to do another vid if the sales for your first custom is good. So, if people are stealing for free then I would not be able to do another.

[TIEnTEEZ]

Actually download theft does affect the customer...if they have a desire to do another video. A producer might be willing to do another vid if the sales for your first custom is good. So, if people are stealing for free then I would not be able to do another.

I think you missed the point of the argument. The point is that most people who steal stuff would not have bought it anyway. Therefore, it actually doesn't affect the producer, because the producer was NEVER going to get any money from the thief, anyway.

[coulumbia]

I've commissioned quite a few customs over the past few years. My first couple were VERY expensive. 1-I booked top models (3 in one video, 2 in another), 2- The producer had to rent a studio. 3- I asked for good production value and I had a pretty developed script. I ostensibly paid for the studio time and the model's day-fees. So the producer "went out on a limb" and took his time, equipment for the shoot , directed/produced the day and then edited the custom requests. I felt he deserved to get the profits from this because HE made it happen. Unless I'm going to become a producer and make my own clips (which I have thought of doing... but isn't feasible for several reasons for me), how else can I get my vision produced? Now it looks (I don't know for sure) that my custom films were great sellers on the C4S site he had... but I have no idea if he sold 10, 20 or 100 (+). It would be nice to be able to say... ok Mr. Producer, once you hit "break even" and say 50% on top of that, please begin to reimburse me... but I'm not his business partner, I don't (shouldn't) have access to his sales records and would I be willing to make up his lost production days if the custom flopped and sold only "1" (me?). You have to give producer's their fair share.

On the flip of that... what if the producer falls short of your vision? On my first custom a few years back one of the models completely left out a section of a scene I scripted (dialogue in a g/g action scene... she just skipped the script, did her action with no words and "moved on"... pretty disappointing). It didn't ruin the plot, but I missed out on some dialogue and action I wanted to see. It happens to varying degrees in these customs that specific requests... and I'm not talking about weird fetish or "way out there" stuff, but dialogue, action (albeit maybe sexual... though within the genre of what is being produced today in SHIP). So what then is the producer to do? In that case, I was naive and didn't really make an issue out of it. In another custom with him, I spoke my mind and he made it up to me in another production he was doing and it worked out.

I learned not only to speak up, but also to be very exacting in directions and stating what you want... NOT necessarily a long and wordy script (another error I had in writing waaaaaay tooooo much dialogue for a custom!), but try and get your exact vision of what you want to see on paper.

Hopefully (which has been my experience for the most part... but there have been those who just ignored me-- for me never to return to them) most producers will see and admit to there error and make it up in some form or fashion... good business relations.

I've since discovered less expensive producers to get my visions produced, though there is a balance between production value and making an affordable custom at times. I have a few custom ideas in my mind that I will be searching out producers to create.

I sort of drifted from what the original question of the post. My feeling is that customs certainly help the market. As noted before, new concepts, scripts, characters etc. are injected into the SHIP specifically... though to other genres as well. AND you may find others share your particular vision. Maybe a producer sees and likes it and decides to incorporate your vision into their work. Or be used as an example of what others want in their customs and thus your vision is spread or expanded.

For me the custom route seems to the only way certain ideas/concepts I like to see will be interjected into movies. I've noted several times to producers my ideas (and they ain't difficult to do, or really weird) and I've gotten just about 0% response in actual productions adapting what I've suggested if I haven't paid into the prodcution... customs have been the only answer to my quest (so far).

Which BTW does mean I buy less... if the producer isn't listening or catering to what I'd like in the productions that they are any-way producing (my vision usually fits into so many videos already produced... very frustrating) I'm less likely to buy what they are selling specifically because of lack of any response to my suggestions. BTW-- that isn't a bitter bite... just the reality. I HAVE bought videos that I felt "might" contain what I'm looking for , or are simply great looking videos!

[coulumbia]

One more point... about stealing stuff... it apparently is a given now that sites poach other videos and post them. I am sure it definitely hurts producers. Certainly anybody who downloads a video produced by a known producer (especially in the genre we like) is hurting the industry and making it viable for producers to keep creating material... if we don't buy, they can't produce it.

The only positive thing about seeing videos on porn sites is that we see what the producer is creating and get a good idea if we want to buy from that producer... or if we want to own the clip we're seeing. Now I know producers aren't going to do this for a lot of stuff they create, but a 30-45 second promo might help us fans consider making a purchase. The 10 second "window" at C4S is an absolute joke... sometimes totally a waste (opening credits don't give me any idea what quality the clip is... come off it!).

[KnightsofGotham.com]

I've stayed away from this topic for a bit because the last time I made a point I got my head chewed off so I tend to shy away from threads like this but I had to come on and make one point.
take it or leave it

When we were going strong and making a lot of money a week there were no pornhubs, no tube sites, no unmoderated chats.
trading was donemostly through private messages on forums.
and honestly once a good guy reached out to a mod and told them that they were approached that person looking to trade via forum was shown the door.

but then tube sites started coming into the picture.
with every new one that pops up income goes down!

"citation needed" Im hearing you say.
Well allow me to present the only thing available to me.

my actual research.

When we started shooting Freeze fetish there were zero (none) movies of our or anyone elses on tube sites.
we were making roughly $1K a week off of one movie.
The people started sharing movies and posting them on tube sites and our income has dropped.
I have noticed that the more videos are shared on tube sites the lower our income gets.
Now lets compare that to our vampire movies.
When we started making them it was about the same time as the freeze. it took longer to get there but eventually they were both on the same level, about 1K a week.
Freeze is shared everywhere, vampires are not.
our vampires are totaling about $900 a week, Freeze is about $900 a month.

I found that its happening across the board with all our fetishes.

the ones that are not on tube sites? the income fluctuates a little, but not as much as the ones that are on tube sites.
so saying that a person who watches it on tube sites wouldnt have paid anyway is just bullshit and naive.

we produce over 25 niches. the ones that are on tube sites make 75% less than those that are not!

sales come and go and if you run reports you can see trends that show the ebb and flow and when it shrinks it shrinks by a bit. loss of interest isnt overnight, its not in a month but lack of interest comes from the 6 mointh to a year mark. thats when you can see that a niche is failing and at that point you can either change how you shoot or live with the loss of interest, but with tube sites you can see the loss within a week! sales dropp by 75% sometimes within the first week. why? because people find it on tube sites, share that location in chats and pms and suddenly there are a bunch of sales that are lost.

and then there are forums.

there are some forums that actually go out of their way toban producers. they dont want them there. what they want is for one person to buy a movie, put it on a tube site, then share that location so they can all benefit. some actually have paypals or squares, etc to gather donations $1 here $3 there. and then they buy one clip a week for everyone to enjoy. this means the producer gets one sale and losses hundreds.

its areal thing and in regards to customs...... well when your niche has been raped by pirates you need to make that money up sopmewhere. for us its become easier to shoot a custom and have the client pay for that time so when we sell it we are making 100% profit and not paying the model her rate (because the custom paid the rate)

[vnv7272]

If the producer is comfortable with the profit they make, maybe having the ownership of the pics/film go to the person paying makes sense.

Are you talking about the customer inheriting the rights after the required profit margin has been reached? Meaning that the video gets removed from the producer's store. Or do you mean the customer pays the entire production cost plus the producer's margin, in order to buy the sole rights, as MH was suggesting?

Either option makes the video unavailable to the general public. Unless the customer is willing to jump through the hoops required to personally set up a clipstore (or get card processing for their own site) and comply with 2257 record keeping regs.

I took it to mean that a producer would not only charge the customer all the expenses involved in making the content, (talent, filming, editing, costumes, etc) but would also add a percentage as profit.

It's like if you order a custom costume, the store isn't only going to charge you the costs to make the item, they're going to want to make some money off of it.

And if you look at it THAT way, then getting a custom for just the cost of the girls and nothing else isn't a bad deal. And it's true, maybe that custom will hit a home run, maybe not. IT's always a gamble...

Yep. And he has a point that the custom may never reach the public in that scenario. So that is not good for overall, but good that it at least keeps producers in business and keeps cash coming to release other projects.

The other thought for those tight on money. Send a script to a producer, tell them if they think it can make money, make it and put it on the market. Send a free download to the person that wrote the script if the producer wants to take the chance and make it.

Gets new ideas to the producers, instead of stuck in the head of someone that can't afford a custom and for whatever reason hasn't put it out as fanfic. Speaking of which, there are many stories, including here, that producers could and probably do mine for ideas.

I think it is all about how information can best be shared between people with visions and creators. With a genera like this, and the profit margins and budgets of a lot of producers, I think many avenues of getting ideas and creating content should be considered.

[PrimalNymph]

Appreciate KnightsofGotham.com with a solid producer perspective, as always. I can't speak to the "back in the day" too much as I've only been with Primal a little over 2 1/2 years, but I am quite familiar with the financial and logistics aspects of production. So I want to break down this quote:

Example: a customer requests a custom and it's made for $500 which is paid fully by the customer. The producer turns and sells it on their site for $30 a download. 1000 pervy boys and girls download it. $30,000 profit. You can't throw a small percentage at the customer as a thank you since they did provide the story idea and initial payment for you to get started? I just bought you a car!!! I fully understand that the producer has provided a service, but being very knowledgeable about the fact that a person is making a big profit off of your ideas actually does not want you to do another custom or share ideas anymore. One and done. If a producer did share a small percentage of the profits it would encourage a customer to continue doing customs and written better ideas.
The other aspect of concern as a customer is illegal downloading. I never want to see my custom vid that I paid my hard earned money for out there for someone else to download for free (no offense fellow pervs). I know this also a major concern for the producers - the company I went through is very diligent in regards to keeping their work off the sites. Even I have taken a 'watchdog' attitude - knowing it would upset me greatly if I did see it out there and discourage me from doing another.

I had a similar discussion in a transformation fetish forum. The biggest issue I have found across the fetishes we shoot is the tremendous discrepancy between what folks think the size of a fetish production company is vs. what it actually is. TIEnTEEZ was spot on. 1000 sales on one superheroine clip simply doesn't happen. And if it does, someone needs to put me in touch with that producer's black magic supplier. This fetish is awesome, and there is so much that can be done within it, but it is a tremendously niched community. If I look back at sales since our Darkside store was created, our most purchased video doesn't even hit half of the number proposed above. Cumulatively. Since it was released. In 2013. The video has been with the company longer than I have! lol But let's take the example you gave. A video selling for $30 a piece. Well, clips4sale takes 40% of that. Other host sites have different rates, but even if it's your own host site, it requires a merchant provider that takes a cut. (And it is truly hard to find a merchant provider willing to work with adult content.) So the producer isn't getting $30 per video. They're getting $18. Let's say the producer is fortunate enough to have 200 people buy it. That's $3,600, a far cry from the $30,000. So that's $3,600 in revenue over, say, a year or two of sales. But that's just revenue, not profit. To get profit, subtract your cost of booking the girl (which can be a 4-digit figure), costumes, set, music licensing, etc. Then the director/camera person/editor needs to be paid for their work. Fortunately, we do all of those in house. But that's not really profit. That's labor. So what's left in profit? Not much. And at least for us, that money usually goes right back into the company to enable and enhance future productions. All this ties into how you end up with trading forums and tube uploads. People think it won't make a difference. But it does. None of the producers you meet on here are Universal Studios or Disney. When one video gets posted on a tube or torrent site, you see it right away in your traffic and you feel it fast in your wallet. Getting it taken down can be anywhere from tricky to impossible, and once people know that your videos may be posted for free somewhere, odds are that the person is done buying for a while or forever because they'll just wait for it to be free. Think about how many times you've said to yourself, "I'm not paying to see that in theaters. I'll just wait until it's on Netflix or YouTube or torrents." When you know there's a cheaper and easier option, you lean into it by default. We all do. But with smaller companies, this can be a huge and devastating hit. Some of you might remember our shut down last year. That didn't happen so we could take a few months to do the backstroke in a pool full of money, I can assure you.

So a production costs a lot whether or not it's a custom. Location, crew, performers, costumes, makeup, editing, effects, music, airfare and lodging for the performers, the list goes on. I know at least for us, what we charge for a custom is never 100% of these costs. We count on being able to make up the difference and earn profit via sales, part of why we simply can't take every custom request we get. And that's never a certainty either as sometimes even videos you think are your magnum opus fail miserably in sales. So right there, no, the person ordering the custom isn't paying for all of it.

This quote specifically I need to address: "It would encourage a customer to continue doing customs and written better ideas." (I'm about to sound really cynical, but please do not take it personally.) We are not hiring you as a writer. You are hiring us as everything but developers of the core concept. There's no shortage of script ideas. Michael writes all of our scripts, but in a broader picture the internet has more movie ideas than anyone can ever conceive. No one could come up with a new idea ever again, and there'd still be enough scripts to make videos until the end of time. The type of customized material a person is requesting with a custom video is not like ordering a custom t-shirt. They just put your shirt in a machine, print/screen your design, and stick it in the mail. Custom video production is complex and intensive, and it involves merging the precise specifications of one individual with enough generalizability that you'll earn enough to make it worth your while. For instance, let's just look at when someone orders a custom and they want a specific performer. That takes a long time of building rapport with agents, of word of mouth within the industry of what it's like to shoot with you, of not using another performer in the same video that doesn't get along with the first one, of the model being comfortable with the content, and of the model being capable of actually executing the part. And that's just in making the booking. Then you have the crew. That is skilled labor. Skilled labor has value, and things of value cost money. I couldn't do a year ago what I can do today, and that just becomes exponentially true the further back in time you look. Skills are honed and practiced and perfected over time. Doctors are a great example of skilled labor. You wouldn't go to one with no experience because you realize that there's value to experience. It influences the quality of care you receive and your peace of mind that you'll get proper service. Like being sure that the doctor isn't going to replace your kidney with an organic rutabaga. Here's the point I'm getting at: custom production costs are structured as they are because you are not paying for the video itself. You are paying for everything that goes into turning one's personal idea into a cinematic reality.

If customs are out of your budget, you're welcome to just pitch a broad idea and hope it happens. We do try to listen to feedback, especially when a good amount of people want to see something happen. If there's an army of people wanting blue glitter boots, we may say, "Hm, do we have any shoots coming up where it would make sense to work in blue glitter boots?" But if you want an anthropomorphic blue glitter boot to serve a family of 4 a plate of eggs while singing Alanis Morissette songs, that's a specific set of elements that requires the financial commitment of a custom to bring together. And also probably the ability to make sentient shoes in that case. That's it for my 3am rambling. I know we all mean well here, so I hope I came across as forthright rather than harsh.

[heroinehunter]

I know absolutely nothing of the video fetish business and what great lengths producers must endure to entertain people. This is a fantastic education. I do want to thank everyone for all their comments and thoughts. I greatly appreciate it.

[GeekyPornCritic]

I see custom scenes having good qualities and a possible bad outcomes. Producers will at least require you to pay for the model's fees. This cuts on the cost of production for the producer. The producer normally pays for the other fees. This is not always the case as one producer (no longer produces content) wanted me to pay for everything because of my idea and I refused. Another positive is a person with great ideas. The scene would have a large audience.

However, a custom with a bad idea may not sell well. The second problem is for fans. Fans may want to see their favorite model in different scenes and she is only getting customs for other fetishes. These are the only negatives for a custom scene from my opinion.

Appreciate KnightsofGotham.com with a solid producer perspective, as always. I can't speak to the "back in the day" too much as I've only been with Primal a little over 2 1/2 years, but I am quite familiar with the financial and logistics aspects of production. So I want to break down this quote:

I had a similar discussion in a transformation fetish forum. The biggest issue I have found across the fetishes we shoot is the tremendous discrepancy between what folks think the size of a fetish production company is vs. what it actually is. TIEnTEEZ was spot on. 1000 sales on one superheroine clip simply doesn't happen. And if it does, someone needs to put me in touch with that producer's black magic supplier. This fetish is awesome, and there is so much that can be done within it, but it is a tremendously niched community. If I look back at sales since our Darkside store was created, our most purchased video doesn't even hit half of the number proposed above. Cumulatively. Since it was released. In 2013. The video has been with the company longer than I have! lol But let's take the example you gave. A video selling for $30 a piece. Well, clips4sale takes 40% of that. Other host sites have different rates, but even if it's your own host site, it requires a merchant provider that takes a cut. (And it is truly hard to find a merchant provider willing to work with adult content.) So the producer isn't getting $30 per video. They're getting $18. Let's say the producer is fortunate enough to have 200 people buy it. That's $3,600, a far cry from the $30,000. So that's $3,600 in revenue over, say, a year or two of sales. But that's just revenue, not profit. To get profit, subtract your cost of booking the girl (which can be a 4-digit figure), costumes, set, music licensing, etc. Then the director/camera person/editor needs to be paid for their work. Fortunately, we do all of those in house. But that's not really profit. That's labor. So what's left in profit? Not much. And at least for us, that money usually goes right back into the company to enable and enhance future productions. All this ties into how you end up with trading forums and tube uploads. People think it won't make a difference. But it does. None of the producers you meet on here are Universal Studios or Disney. When one video gets posted on a tube or torrent site, you see it right away in your traffic and you feel it fast in your wallet. Getting it taken down can be anywhere from tricky to impossible, and once people know that your videos may be posted for free somewhere, odds are that the person is done buying for a while or forever because they'll just wait for it to be free. Think about how many times you've said to yourself, "I'm not paying to see that in theaters. I'll just wait until it's on Netflix or YouTube or torrents." When you know there's a cheaper and easier option, you lean into it by default. We all do. But with smaller companies, this can be a huge and devastating hit. Some of you might remember our shut down last year. That didn't happen so we could take a few months to do the backstroke in a pool full of money, I can assure you.

So a production costs a lot whether or not it's a custom. Location, crew, performers, costumes, makeup, editing, effects, music, airfare and lodging for the performers, the list goes on. I know at least for us, what we charge for a custom is never 100% of these costs. We count on being able to make up the difference and earn profit via sales, part of why we simply can't take every custom request we get. And that's never a certainty either as sometimes even videos you think are your magnum opus fail miserably in sales. So right there, no, the person ordering the custom isn't paying for all of it.

How much better or worse would sells be if Primal had a membership site instead of hosting its own site with a monthly membership? Primal is one of the most consistent producers on Clips4Sale. You guys have popular stores for Heroines, Handjobs, Footjobs, and Taboo.

[arkane]

I suspect the "biz" would be near death without the customs because the sharing forums and tubes are destroying it.

Sadly, the guy who tries to have a custom done finds a lot of unaccuracy, lack of professionalism, sometimes dishonesty. The last experience in this field really kill any willingness to try again in me.

[heroinehunter]

I've had a very positive experience with my custom. Very happy I did it. I would love to do another one. But there is the expense of doing it to take into consideration.