Beat down or Challenge

[Dazzle1]

When a villian captures a superheroines should it be easy or hard?

One of my problems is when Wonder Woman is easily captured.

I find it more satisfying when the villian has to work at it or be clever

[Doctor Outcome]

When a villian captures a superheroines should it be easy or hard?

One of my problems is when Wonder Woman is easily captured.

I find it more satisfying when the villian has to work at it or be clever

It needs to be hard for a superheroine to go down. I agree with you so much on that aspect Dazzle1 and I believe stories are more fun when the heroine puts up resistance and fights back. It's a lot more fun when the heroine is the dominator in the story from time to time. That's something that I've tried to stress to people time and time again.

If the heroine goes down with little to no resistance...I mean honestly...where's the fun in that? If the villains show some ingenuity in capturing the heroine or making her submit, it works a little better.

Personally though...and call me old-fashioned...but I still think a story should end with the heroine being the victor, rather than the vanquished. It gives the story some real closure instead of an inconsistent continuity where the heroine is back on their feet after a nasty defeat and we have no idea how they escape something or where they get the will to continue fighting the villain after such a humiliating defeat.

[Dazzle1]

We are both old fashioned in that.

Off subject but what are your thought on the revisionist history they are doing with Wonder Woman and Batman in the movies?

When a villian captures a superheroines should it be easy or hard?

One of my problems is when Wonder Woman is easily captured.

I find it more satisfying when the villian has to work at it or be clever

It needs to be hard for a superheroine to go down. I agree with you so much on that aspect Dazzle1 and I believe stories are more fun when the heroine puts up resistance and fights back. It's a lot more fun when the heroine is the dominator in the story from time to time. That's something that I've tried to stress to people time and time again.

If the heroine goes down with little to no resistance...I mean honestly...where's the fun in that? If the villains show some ingenuity in capturing the heroine or making her submit, it works a little better.

Personally though...and call me old-fashioned...but I still think a story should end with the heroine being the victor, rather than the vanquished. It gives the story some real closure instead of an inconsistent continuity where the heroine is back on their feet after a nasty defeat and we have no idea how they escape something or where they get the will to continue fighting the villain after such a humiliating defeat.

[Doctor Outcome]

We are both old fashioned in that.

Off subject but what are your thought on the revisionist history they are doing with Wonder Woman and Batman in the movies?

When a villian captures a superheroines should it be easy or hard?

One of my problems is when Wonder Woman is easily captured.

I find it more satisfying when the villian has to work at it or be clever

It needs to be hard for a superheroine to go down. I agree with you so much on that aspect Dazzle1 and I believe stories are more fun when the heroine puts up resistance and fights back. It's a lot more fun when the heroine is the dominator in the story from time to time. That's something that I've tried to stress to people time and time again.

If the heroine goes down with little to no resistance...I mean honestly...where's the fun in that? If the villains show some ingenuity in capturing the heroine or making her submit, it works a little better.

Personally though...and call me old-fashioned...but I still think a story should end with the heroine being the victor, rather than the vanquished. It gives the story some real closure instead of an inconsistent continuity where the heroine is back on their feet after a nasty defeat and we have no idea how they escape something or where they get the will to continue fighting the villain after such a humiliating defeat.

Well, I haven't really seen Batman vs. Superman, so I can't really tell you my thoughts on that. But I'd love to hear yours. What's your position on it?

[Dazzle1]

to DR O:

I have a problem when Canon says Batman will not fire a gun which has been true for over 50 years and they just disregard it.

That is worse than Wonder woman with the sword and the braclets were for defensive purposes which fits the character of Diana.

[Heroine Addict]

Hasn't there been revisionist history at DC since "The Flash of Two Worlds" in 1961 and every "Crisis" and "Rebirth" since then? In terms of the movie adaptations, the 1989 Batman fundamentally revised the character as a body armor-clad average-sized guy who casually slaughters henchmen.

As for the beatdown question, I like the sudden reversal of fortune. I imagine the heroine in the fetish video or comic is used to winning. She ALWAYS wins. Every. Single. Week. And then something happens which gives the villain the upper hand...

If she's not already a heroine we know from comics, TV or movies, we just have to imagine there's a comic, movie or show which chronicles her weekly triumphs. So what we're seeing is the final shocking chapter of her career. The stuff that the mainstream teased, but never delivered.

That's kind of what makes the SH Peril genre transgressive. It's the fulfilment of the fantasies many of us had while watching Batgirl and Wonder Woman.

[heroinehunter]

In regards to the beatdown, it has to be difficult to take down the superheroine. They're smart and strong, so it can't be easy at all. Besides, it does add to the excitement when you have to be THAT clever to take a superheroine down.
A superheroine giving resistance and winning at times during the vid does add to the excitement. To see her break out and escape for a short time is exciting. But to see a strong, smart heroine helpless and forced to do something that she doesn't want to do is what we all want to see in the end.

[Abductorenmadrid]

When a villian captures a superheroines should it be easy or hard?

One of my problems is when Wonder Woman is easily captured.

I find it more satisfying when the villian has to work at it or be clever

In what medium are we talking about? I can understand why video producers need to cut to the chase and get on with the meat of the action quickly.

With stories those of us who write them do indeed get more freedom to choose how to play it. But in the end our story will only appeal to READERS who's buttons it presses. there is no right answer to "easy or hard?" because everyone is different. Some may like my slower approach, others may like another writer's faster takedown.

[DrDominator9]

An easy take down of a superheroine just to "get to the good part" does a disservice to the SH peril genre, imho. That doesn't mean a fast, devious and overwhelming take down of a heroine wouldn't be worthwhile. I'd love to see more of them with not just a quick chloroforming but perhaps a belly shot, chloroforming and airplane spin done in quick succession that's far too much for the heroine to deal with out of nowhere. Multiple assailants would work too as long as they don't politely wait off to the side for their co-henchman to get battered before charging in. I fully appreciate the difficulty in choreographing such a moment in a video but it would be epic to see, no?

[Femina]

The more difficult it is to take down the heroine the better the SHiP fetish payoff IMO. As a woman whose perspective is more in placing myself with the heroine than the villain I can say that the ol' 'Instant defeat' formula only makes me roll my eyes and sigh. Much better to suspend your disbelieve that she absolutely is a superheroine and not just a girl in a costume when she holds her own at least for a little while.

[Abductorenmadrid]

The more difficult it is to take down the heroine the better the SHiP fetish payoff IMO. As a woman whose perspective is more in placing myself with the heroine than the villain I can say that the ol' 'Instant defeat' formula only makes me roll my eyes and sigh. Much better to suspend your disbelieve that she absolutely is a superheroine and not just a girl in a costume when she holds her own at least for a little while.

And it may be that you have really hit the mark in one little part of your comment - "...the better the SHiP fetish payoff..."

There are many "content creators" here from video producers to artists to story writers and it is evident not all of them are creating SHiP material in the deeper sense of the meaning. That's not meant to be a negative or derogatory comment by the way, I'm just putting the thought out there. It seems that some content is more like "costumed sex". No doubt it presses the right buttons with a group of people who prefer to see their ladies as "Superheroines" which is fine, but as it is usually the sexual content that is central and to get to that point you need to have the heroine defeated and usually promptly.

The deeper side of SHiP requires a Superheroine. But not just in looks, but in deeds too. To mirror Femina's comment - as a male, placing myself in the villains perspective, I can also say that the ol' 'Instant defeat' formula can also be a downer. The exposing of a weakness, the discovery of the "kryptonite", the uncovering of a secret identity perhaps is what makes defeat more of a process rather than instant. A heroine that required no such effort maybe wasn't a superheroine at all?

Perhaps then depending on the answer you give to the original question .. "When a villian captures a superheroines should it be easy or hard?" says what form of SHiP you are into; the more primal one (Insta-catch and do what you want!), or the more cerebral one (I am going to dissect every bit of knowledge, analyse every power, research your every move and figure out how to get you!).

[ksire_99]

To me the idea of a Superheroine getting captured is self explanatory. They are SUPER. So the planning and execution has to be just right to make it happen. I would say if the plan and execution of the plan is good, then it would LOOK easy, but the longer the fight goes I would say the balance tips in the favor of the Super.

K

[Dazzle1]

The more difficult it is to take down the heroine the better the SHiP fetish payoff IMO. As a woman whose perspective is more in placing myself with the heroine than the villain I can say that the ol' 'Instant defeat' formula only makes me roll my eyes and sigh. Much better to suspend your disbelieve that she absolutely is a superheroine and not just a girl in a costume when she holds her own at least for a little while.

I agree and it goes both ways in the Femdom of a hero, they have some real wimpy Batman, Superman and Robins.

With the exception of the recent Christina Carter's Batman.

[Abductorenmadrid]

To me the idea of a Superheroine getting captured is self explanatory. They are SUPER. So the planning and execution has to be just right to make it happen. I would say if the plan and execution of the plan is good, then it would LOOK easy, but the longer the fight goes I would say the balance tips in the favor of the Super.

K

Oh agreed here for sure to a point. I mean I can accept the victory looking easy and sitting ok with me - BUT - some EFFORT should appear somewhere else within the story/film/whatever!

EXAMPLE of a good moment.
It was thrilling seeing SG realise that Max Lord's drones had been measuring her abilities, sizing her up, perhaps getting to a point where she could be taken out the picture. And on top of that he was close to figuring she had a personal link to someone on his sabotaged train (Kat's nephew or whatever) which in turn meant Kara's identity was at risk. This is the groundwork he is doing, SG knows about it but can do nothing - this worked for me!

EXAMPLE of a "meh" moment.
SG wakes up in a red sun cage by the Master Jailer (I think). OK , so it is peril as such, but it just happens and there she is. No preparation and no anticipation leads to this moment that I recall. If ol MJ had been seen pouring over his database first figuring out his plan then great, but no.

EXAMPLE of a "missed" moment.
So evil dad rips the alien database of the DEO - was it just me hoping/praying that it held all the potential weaknesses and vulnerabilities of SG and all her other alien buddies in some medical file? But no, it's just a glorified address book! Damn you Lillian, I thought you were on our side!!

[Dazzle1]

If someone could do a fetish version of a golden age wonder woman story that would be great

or Batwoman or Batgirl based on Batman animated series

supergirl based on Darksied from the New Adventure scenario

[Bugsy44]

It needs to be difficult or it's no fun! Having said I have seen some fights that when on way too long!

As for Dazzle request for characters I would like to suggest Raven from the Teen Titans cartoon!

[Bugsy44]

It needs to be difficult or it's no fun! Having said I have seen some fights that when on way too long!

As for Dazzle request for characters I would like to suggest Raven from the Teen Titans cartoon!

[frightiningcow]

I like it when the "fight" is one that the hero/heroine wasn't expecting. When the Villain uses a method of distraction or subduing that the hero didn't expect. Simpler versions like when Linda Carter's Wonder Woman would get gassed. Catwoman acting coy and seductive to get close enough to dig her claws into Batman and render his size and strength useless against her.

[coulumbia]

As was said above, having a "Super" heroine fall quickly and easily does indeed seem to go against the grain of her having a super power. Having her defeated easily or quickly without some fight/challenge really misses out on the point. I agree that too much fighting or back-and-forth might be too time consuming or expensive for producers to do... especially in the adult oriented part of SHIP... fans are looking for the fetish "payback" (as I think someone used in a post above). It could work if during the course of a battle we see/hear as the Villain uses some unique and unexpected way to get the upper hand... and then we see/hear the Heroine realize she is surprisingly being to loose somehow. That culminates in the Villain gaining the upper hand and defeating her in some form... (OR perhaps in a twist... SHE gets the upper hand !) then a transition to another scene to the "payback" session... The Heroine (or reverse for a change?) is now in the "clutches" of her enemy.

If that happened really quick without any explanation or such of how he/she got the upper hand really weakens the plot and perhaps enjoyment of the video as a whole. I don't think adult SHIP is about either part ( the fight/battle or the sexual destruction to follow) being too quick or detached from one another. As I noted in another post a bit of variety of the fight/challenge between "good" (Superheroine) and evil" (Villain) as well as the payback/punishment/domination or humiliation adds to telling a unique and enjoyable story.

[Doctor Outcome]

I can tell you now that there are plenty of stories where the villains have used ingenuity to bring a superheroine under their heel:

-The Demise of Wonder Woman (C.C. Productions)

-Spiderwebs (Dawnstar Productions) Black Widow has some excellent traps set up in that one that British Knight doesn't see coming.

-Golden Desires of Gold Lust (Kendra James Productions) The villainess Gold Lust doesn't have to fight to subdue Batwoman...all she has to do is touch her or Batwoman touches her and she falls in mad lust for Gold Lust. That's a definite plus if the villain doesn't have to use force to subdue their opponent.

-Cat's Eye Diamond series (C.C. Productions) I try not to give too much credit on this series because Catwoman is relying on a jewel to subdue other superheroines. While this is an excellent 'macguffin' to subduing 'supers', Christina Carter's stories rely too heavily on the mind-control trope for the Cat's Eye diamond and I've yet to see a storyline where the heroines are freed from the jewel's hypnotic hold and the jewel is destroyed or placed some place where it can't be used on 'supers' anymore. Hell if anything, it'd be better if a superheroine got a hold of it and used it on the bad guys to turn them good. It can happen and I've got a few ideas on how that could work too...

-Interview with a Wonder Woman (C.C. Productions) Lady Diana is the master manipulator when she plays the villainess in the C.C. Productions zone and from time to time, she definitely didn't need much to subdue Wonder Woman. Hell in this story, after revealing her true colors, all the Baroness had to do is threaten Diana's fellow Amazonian sisters with nuclear destruction (via missiles from orbit) in order to make her submissive. Tensions really mount when the villain threatens innocents if their demands aren't met.

-Wonder Woman vs. Verona, Queen of the Vampires (C.C. Productions) Verona was a vampiress with the power of hypnosis at her disposal.

-O-Girl: Case of the Panther Rose (jw productions) Lady Felina had her own 'Little Shop of Horror's to subdue O-girl and the fact that she couldn't see the trap coming really showed ingenuity for that chapter. From time to time though, O-girl doesn't listen to her 'danger sense' enough to know when a trap is right in front of her. Sometimes I wish Lady Felina's traps would backfire on her just like Wile E. Coyote, just so we can see her reaction and O-girl's from time to time.

Anyhoo, these are just a few good scenarios where villains used strategy and the heroine got ensnared. But as I said before, a basic formula that a lot of producers should try practicing now and again is 'the superheroine's escape from doom and reversing it on the bad guys' or better yet...another heroine comes to the captured heroine's rescue and they escape together.

[Dazzle1]

I can tell you now that there are plenty of stories where the villains have used ingenuity to bring a superheroine under their heel:

-The Demise of Wonder Woman (C.C. Productions)

-Spiderwebs (Dawnstar Productions) Black Widow has some excellent traps set up in that one that British Knight doesn't see coming.

-Golden Desires of Gold Lust (Kendra James Productions) The villainess Gold Lust doesn't have to fight to subdue Batwoman...all she has to do is touch her or Batwoman touches her and she falls in mad lust for Gold Lust. That's a definite plus if the villain doesn't have to use force to subdue their opponent.

-Cat's Eye Diamond series (C.C. Productions) I try not to give too much credit on this series because Catwoman is relying on a jewel to subdue other superheroines. While this is an excellent 'macguffin' to subduing 'supers', Christina Carter's stories rely too heavily on the mind-control trope for the Cat's Eye diamond and I've yet to see a storyline where the heroines are freed from the jewel's hypnotic hold and the jewel is destroyed or placed some place where it can't be used on 'supers' anymore. Hell if anything, it'd be better if a superheroine got a hold of it and used it on the bad guys to turn them good. It can happen and I've got a few ideas on how that could work too...

-Interview with a Wonder Woman (C.C. Productions) Lady Diana is the master manipulator when she plays the villainess in the C.C. Productions zone and from time to time, she definitely didn't need much to subdue Wonder Woman. Hell in this story, after revealing her true colors, all the Baroness had to do is threaten Diana's fellow Amazonian sisters with nuclear destruction (via missiles from orbit) in order to make her submissive. Tensions really mount when the villain threatens innocents if their demands aren't met.

-Wonder Woman vs. Verona, Queen of the Vampires (C.C. Productions) Verona was a vampiress with the power of hypnosis at her disposal.

-O-Girl: Case of the Panther Rose (jw productions) Lady Felina had her own 'Little Shop of Horror's to subdue O-girl and the fact that she couldn't see the trap coming really showed ingenuity for that chapter. From time to time though, O-girl doesn't listen to her 'danger sense' enough to know when a trap is right in front of her. Sometimes I wish Lady Felina's traps would backfire on her just like Wile E. Coyote, just so we can see her reaction and O-girl's from time to time.

Anyhoo, these are just a few good scenarios where villains used strategy and the heroine got ensnared. But as I said before, a basic formula that a lot of producers should try practicing now and again is 'the superheroine's escape from doom and reversing it on the bad guys' or better yet...another heroine comes to the captured heroine's rescue and they escape together.

I would say Christina Carter and Kendra James are the exceptions, there are far two many out of shape ski masked villains triumphing or fem/fem beat downs

[EvilDaria]

If she can't fight, why bother? If she fights well but loses it has to look good otherwise, again why bother? Too many actresses in this genre forget their guard, stance or balance in the heat of the action, probably because time is money and pressure is on them to get through the shot in a few takes as possible. A well-matched fight that she loses is acceptable, as is fighting a far superior opponent but going down after displaying her abilities, courage and taking damage along the way. One low blow and it's all over, is not really what I want to see. Chokes, if done well or a convincing drugging or chloroforming, again if done well - and this is a test of the actresses' abilities to "sell" this - I am OK with, but too often it is telegraphed, rushed or simply poorly acted. Also once defeated, can we find other ways of presenting the victim, and indeed what we want to do to her after this?
Fight well. Portray courage and ability properly. Convince us she is worth caring about.

[viking]

The defeat of a super heroine must be a challenge for her adversary. And it must be a mental as well as physical challenge. In too many videos the heroine must be as dumb as a fence post in order to to fall for the trap that is used to capture her. Also, it is really hard to portray anything resembling a serious struggle when the heroine is wearing high heels. Chuck Norris would look like a wimpy fighter if he had to do it in heels. A model can wear high heels or she can look like she can really fight: one or the other, not both.

[Heroine Addict]

I find the sexiness of stiletto-heeled boots more than justifies the suspension of disbelief that a heroine could run and fight in such footwear.

There are loads of aspects of this genre which are just plain silly. The fact that a public figure would be quickly identifiable with so much of their face on show doesn't prevent me from totally buying into bat cowls as a credible disguise. It doesn't stand up to even a moment's scrutiny, yet I still love unmasking scenarios.

It's best to just go with it, rather than expect absolute realism. Lycra compliments a slim body far more than kevlar, even though it's a ridiculous fabric to wear in combat.

[avenger]

there are too many heroine 'beat down' movies, in my opinion. I won't name names but you can take a look at one producer in particular and it's the same formula over and over and over again and it gets old really quick. Heroine walks into grungy warehouse, heroine encounters grungy villain, they engage in banter, heroine is quickly overpowered and the rest of the movie is of the heroine being groped and then beat down....the models may change, the costumes may change, but it's basically the same movie. I prefer a build up to something--whether it be a peril, a kinky death trap, or cliff hanger ending. Some producers get it and that's why I keep supporting them. I don't mind the dialogue or fights so long as it adds to the overall story (Primal is a name I will drop because they seem to get a lot of things right) but as far as the beat down goes, if that's the majority of the movie, then I'll pass

[Doctor Outcome]

Ooooh man, I am so loving this topic right now! I was wondering when somebody was gonna bring this up and I truly love the responses that are being given on here. This is some excellent insight on how to improve productions for the future.

A fight would be excellent in most cases because I've always said that if the villain wants the honor of shaming the heroine or just to make them submissive, the villain has to work for it. Or at least create inventions or have abilities that will rival the superheroine's once in a blue moon.

Case in point: Lex Luthor's creation of Nuclear Man to take on the Man of Steel. A powerful foe Nuclear Man was, but he did have one particular flaw that Superman was able to exploit later after taking a nasty beating at his opponent's fists up on the moon.

[Dazzle1]

there are too many heroine 'beat down' movies, in my opinion. I won't name names but you can take a look at one producer in particular and it's the same formula over and over and over again and it gets old really quick. Heroine walks into grungy warehouse, heroine encounters grungy villain, they engage in banter, heroine is quickly overpowered and the rest of the movie is of the heroine being groped and then beat down....the models may change, the costumes may change, but it's basically the same movie. I prefer a build up to something--whether it be a peril, a kinky death trap, or cliff hanger ending. Some producers get it and that's why I keep supporting them. I don't mind the dialogue or fights so long as it adds to the overall story (Primal is a name I will drop because they seem to get a lot of things right) but as far as the beat down goes, if that's the majority of the movie, then I'll pass

an example today , is where the same villian beat down the same heroine for about the 10th time

[heroinehunter]

In regards to 'beatdown the same heroine' : Isn't a lot of those vids custom requests in which the customer is looking for 'the beatdown' to happen? A person says "yeah, I like it but I would do mine slightly different". Also, there is the budget concern for a custom meaning the more elaborate your script the more expensive it's going to be. I like the idea of customs, but I gotta keep a roof over my head first. Perhaps this is why you're seeing so many straight up beatdowns.....

[Dazzle1]

In regards to 'beatdown the same heroine' : Isn't a lot of those vids custom requests in which the customer is looking for 'the beatdown' to happen? A person says "yeah, I like it but I would do mine slightly different". Also, there is the budget concern for a custom meaning the more elaborate your script the more expensive it's going to be. I like the idea of customs, but I gotta keep a roof over my head first. Perhaps this is why you're seeing so many straight up beatdowns.....

Same two actress in same two roles

[heroinehunter]

pm me please ...which two and what roles?