What do you consider obscene?

[Zeta Clark]

So what do you consider obscene?

At what point does super heroine fantasy step over a line for you? Where do you draw the line? Are such boundaries necessary?

I'm quite curious to learn more from your thoughts.

[lionbadger]

Impliedly very young sidekicks

Not a fan of the scatological but would not really classify it as obscene

Don't have a problem with extreme sex / violence, would far rather that that craving was satisfied in a relatively safe fantasy world than someone boils over and goes a bit nuts in the real world (in which respect one has to recognise that the actresses in this genre have very likely saved a number of real world women from maurading nutters because their films filled a dark little niche).

[Richpartist]

Just wish some producers leave out having crosses on their wall or "using" religion in their videos or using"nuns" and things like that.There are some things that you dont touch and for me thats it

[Richpartist]

............and sex with animals

[Philo Hunter]

The big for me ins't the content itself, but how the creators and consumers view it. If the heroine porn is being viewed as pure fantasy removed and not connected to the real world I feel like almost anything can fly, regardless of whether it personally squicks me out. Where I throw my hands up and start to side eye it as obscene is when I get the impression that either the creator or the target audience views the content as more wish fulfillment then abstract fiction.

[TIEnTEEZ]

Obscenity is in the eye of the beholder. What one person finds obscene or objectionable is beautiful to someone else. I bet lots of folks would find this entire genre obscene, especially when it starts getting into darker elements like violence and rape.

For me, personally, I dunno if I find anything really "obscene." That is to say, nothing really offends me. I don't see something and say "Whoa! No one should watch that!" Because I don't care what other people watch.

Of course, there are things that turn me off. I'm not particularly interested in seeing bathroom stuff like people peeing or shitting.
And I'm not interesting in seeing gay male porn, blood and guts gore, sex with animals, underage sex, obese people sex, very old people sex, etc.

But none of that is "obscene" to me. It's just stuff I'm not interested in watching.

I guess pedophelia would probably be where I draw the line into true obscenity now that I think about it.

[DrDominator9]

Obscenity is in the eye of the beholder. What one person finds obscene or objectionable is beautiful to someone else. I bet lots of folks would find this entire genre obscene, especially when it starts getting into darker elements like violence and rape.

For me, personally, I dunno if I find anything really "obscene." That is to say, nothing really offends me. I don't see something and say "Whoa! No one should watch that!" Because I don't care what other people watch.

Of course, there are things that turn me off. I'm not particularly interested in seeing bathroom stuff like people peeing or shitting.
And I'm not interesting in seeing gay male porn, blood and guts gore, sex with animals, underage sex, obese people sex, very old people sex, etc.

But none of that is "obscene" to me. It's just stuff I'm not interested in watching.

I guess pedophelia would probably be where I draw the line into true obscenity now that I think about it.

I have to agree pretty much across the board with TIEnTeez here, especially about the child porn as being obscene. The fetish of seeing someone's throat cut I don't understand at all and consider it extremely violent and gross but fetishes are very specific so I try not to judge. Also I have to agree with the animal sex being pretty far out there, unless, you know the lighting is really moody and the music is...No, no -- animal sex is wrong!

[Heroine Addict]

To be fair, sex videos featuring children, animals or adult rape victims are not pornography; they are evidence of actual abuse. It's not worth acknowledging such truly vile shit in the same breath as mentioning superheroine peril fantasies. It's already taken as read that such material has no place here and no place in any civilized society.

[Richpartist]

Religion,children,animals,excessive blood......and women with tats

[Abductorenmadrid]

When it comes to fetishes we are all different. Growing up BDSM self aware I knew I was having thoughts that I felt were "wrong" and yet for me were "right". Therefore it follows that other people go through this too - essentially what TIEnTEEZ was getting at. This means that I can't take the high ground of saying this or that is 'obscene' when others will consider what I am into is 'obscene' too. Sure I can choose what I want to read or look at but I can't really label something 'obscene' just because I don't like it myself, tolerance is the watchword here. The obvious exclusions are things like those mentioned by Heroine Addict.

I think my main pet peeve is when someone comments or directs a "fantasy" at an actress and not the character they play.

[shevek]

I won't get specific, because that would be political, but in the final analysis, I think one of the few things we can all agree on is that the reality of existence around the world is far more obscene in so many ways than any scripted video or acted-out scenario could ever be.

[Femina]

I won't get specific, because that would be political, but in the final analysis, I think one of the few things we can all agree on is that the reality of existence around the world is far more obscene in so many ways than any scripted video or acted-out scenario could ever be.

eh? It depends on the video? I mean 'Oldboy' is a PRETTY fucked up film... and quantifying things is hard there's tons of movies about people who actually want to DESTROY the world... sure they are usually popcorn blockbusters that are all fun and games while you watch them... but if you equated them to real world situations, a film like 2012 for instance is totally F'ked up. Basically everyone dying and a few thousand on boats survive...

I'll bite I suppose. I'm gonna agree with the 'individual basis' line of thinking. It depends on the purpose and execution of something. A flick of WW being chloroformed, beaten and raped for SHiP fantasies but does it's point to display the villains as villains is (In my opinion) No worse than Shakespeare (dear god I'm actually making this analogy) dumping it on his viewers that both Romeo and Juliet's lives sucked and they died over a suicide pact. It wasn't saying 'hey look suicide rocks!' On the flip side, a video where WW is chloroformed, beaten and raped and the thuggish villains are painted were painted as some sort of idealized champions taking out the heroes (Like how Lex Luthor probably views himself) and a clear production viewpoint that was saying 'this is GOOD! This is how it should be!' then it's crossed over from something made for fun and fantasy into something with a harmful social agenda. And it doesn't have to be that particular example or anything, Just saying, to me it depends on what the underlying purpose of the thing is.

[batgirl1969]

To me anytime a hot petite blonde is in a sitution or film and she DOES NOT get gangbanged by an interacial group...that is obscene to me....I can't stand to see that!

[Zeta Clark]

Very interesting discussion so far. Thank you for replying everyone. And please keep your thoughts coming.

[Renegade]

Underage depictions are right out for me. Other than that, everyone has their own favorite fetishes, but within the fetish universe I think non-consensual, non-cooperative play is obscene. Consensual between two players in a roleplay chat, consensual between two adults in the privacy of their own lives, or consensual between actors and the collaborative effort (and the payment they get) for bringing fantasies alive for us on video.

but let's not beat about the bush - let's get down to the real obscenity in the fetish world - pantyhose or bare legs! Mwahahaha!!

[Mr. X]

Poo

[Bert]

Our little niche, or maybe our little group of related niches, is profoundly antisocial. You want proof? How many of your friends and family know that you are into this fetish? Nevertheless, we are afflicted, whether through nature or nurture, with a fetish that involves fictitious superheroines enduring various forms of mistreatment. The ONLY way that isn't obscene is if it stays fully in the realm of fantasy. I, and I expect the vast majority of us, am not merely against, but viscerally repulsed by actual violence against women. Unfortunately, I believe there are those among us who can't say the same. This knowledge has always made me uncomfortable about being part of the community.

[DrDominator9]

Our little niche, or maybe our little group of related niches, is profoundly antisocial. You want proof? How many of your friends and family know that you are into this fetish? Nevertheless, we are afflicted, whether through nature or nurture, with a fetish that involves fictitious superheroines enduring various forms of mistreatment. The ONLY way that isn't obscene is if it stays fully in the realm of fantasy. I, and I expect the vast majority of us, am not merely against, but viscerally repulsed by actual violence against women. Unfortunately, I believe there are those among us who can't say the same. This knowledge has always made me uncomfortable about being part of the community.

You make a good point about treading the line between fantasy and reality and I always wonder if my writing serves as a release valve or a pump primer in that regard. It's an answer I'll never truly know barring some nightmarish scenario like that of Stephen King's "Misery." I do find it intriguing that the heart of the best writing and the finest videos is that which makes the reading or viewing seem the most realistic. Better punches and sound effects, better acting showing pained reactions, better special effects, etc. We all want to come close to that reality line without crossing over. A search for quality in a very strange industry indeed.

[Abductorenmadrid]

......Other than that, everyone has their own favorite fetishes, but within the fetish universe I think non-consensual, non-cooperative play is obscene.....

But wouldn't you agree most Superheroine stuff is "non consensual" and so by your definition, "obscene"? Usually a heroine is overpowered, captured and something happens to her. Even though it is fantasy technically the character isn't consenting to what happens. Usually she is trying to prevent bad things from happening, just saying.

[Bert]

I do find it intriguing that the heart of the best writing and the finest videos is that which makes the reading or viewing seem the most realistic. Better punches and sound effects, better acting showing pained reactions, better special effects, etc. We all want to come close to that reality line without crossing over. A search for quality in a very strange industry indeed.

Perhaps not so strange, in that the subject matter, superheroines, is wildly and inescapably fictional. "Realism" seems like an imperfect word to describe more accurately depicting a fantasy scene. Having said that, films that veer too closely in the direction of realism do blur the line. The video Excelsia 2 by TBFE, which by the way I think is an exceptional peril film, gets uncomfortable for me at the end because it edges up to "realism" with the dark ending.

[TheVillain]

I find obscene sex with animals, or children.

[girlofsteel]

So what do you consider obscene?

At what point does super heroine fantasy step over a line for you? Where do you draw the line? Are such boundaries necessary?

I'm quite curious to learn more from your thoughts.

I too worry about this. Because as much as this is, and should always be fantasy, I think it’s false to pretend that things don’t carry over, even subconsciously, to the real world.

I’m not claiming any moral ground; I’m definitely as guilty as everyone else. My stories are, amongst other things, violent and deservedly belong in the dungeon.

But, like others have pointed out, there is very little that is consensual in this fetish, so I would agree that most of it is already obscene.

For me, personally, what matters is not so much the realism of a particular idea but the intention behind it. In the case of my own stories: the violence and sex are a tool to further the plot not its central focus. And, for me, that’s an important and necessary distinction.

I’m curious, however, why you’ve chosen this question?

[ksire_99]

each has their own ideas of what is acceptable, what is exciting, and what is just wrong.

For me, mine have changed over the past couple years. After being exposed to the rest of you freaks

[TIEnTEEZ]

To be fair, sex videos featuring children, animals or adult rape victims are not pornography; they are evidence of actual abuse. It's not worth acknowledging such truly vile shit in the same breath as mentioning superheroine peril fantasies. It's already taken as read that such material has no place here and no place in any civilized society.

There are plenty of films in this genre that depict adult rape victims. That's not evidence of actual abuse. Unless it's real, of course, which I assume is what you meant.

I get what you are saying about videos featuring children. But what if it's not a child, but an adult playing the role of a child? I think that's technically still illegal, but is it obscene? I'm not sure.

As for animals, I have a hard time understanding how sexually pleasuring an animal is in any way abuse, although there are some who argue that is somehow confuses the animal or misrepresents the relationship the animal has with the humans involved. But I frankly find that to be quite a stretch.

[TIEnTEEZ]

Our little niche, or maybe our little group of related niches, is profoundly antisocial. You want proof? How many of your friends and family know that you are into this fetish?

This is actually a very interesting question. I remember struggling with this in my early 20s. And I did, in fact, come out to a couple of my friends that I was into BDSM (although I don't think Superheroines ever came up).

My one friend, whom I have literally known forever (since she was born, at any rate) and is like a sister to me made a joke about it, which was the most awesome thing ever.

My other friend basically just shrugged it off like it was no big deal.

I think this is one of the reasons why I am so accepting of LGBTQ folks. I can kind've understand where they are coming from and I have a very small taste of what it's like to be in the closet. In fact, I guess it depends on the circumstances, but coming out as a Superheroine fetishist or even as just a BDSM fetishist might, in some circles, be perceived as worse than being LGBTQ.

[Zeta Clark]

I’m curious, however, why you’ve chose this question?

Mostly to understand where the community sets its current standards.

Part of the "Miller Test" requires an understanding of what the average person in a community would feel about the material. That average standard and not the standard of any one person is used as part of the test.

That said, the discussion has been very interesting. I'm learning quite a bit about different people in this forum. Hehe

Z

[Zeta Clark]

Does it matter to you if it is written in a story versus something visual (like an image, render, or movie)? Are visual depictions more obscene than a short story interpretations of the same scene or act?

[Kitten]

So what do you consider obscene?

At what point does super heroine fantasy step over a line for you? Where do you draw the line? Are such boundaries necessary?

I'm quite curious to learn more from your thoughts.

Depends on the medium involved.

What i find acceptable for a text story for instance, might be less okay in a video.

The reason for this... if it's a text story i have room to water it down, censor, presume things are less 'severe' than the author might have intended... or can just skip a few paragraphs to move on as needed.

If it's in a video, it's all on the screen, graphic, and harder to suspend belief in things i find offensive.


ie. Let's take a simple scene when a character dies. In a text story, she died. If it's a bloody mess, really, i can tone it down as i like in my head.

If it's a video, and they have a torn up costume, and fake blood everywhere, and a mangled body on the screen, that's a little harder to tone down.

[Philo Hunter]

Depends on the medium involved.

What i find acceptable for a text story for instance, might be less okay in a video.

Yeah, I totally agree with this. There are things I can read and write in stories that would be total boner killer for me in a flesh and blood video. An hand drone or 3d renders are different too. I think the less "real" the medium the more comfortable I can personally be with how extreme it is. Not just, as you said, do to the ability to tone it down in my head, but because it FEELS less real and is more clearly fantasy.

[Renegade]

......Other than that, everyone has their own favorite fetishes, but within the fetish universe I think non-consensual, non-cooperative play is obscene.....

But wouldn't you agree most Superheroine stuff is "non consensual" and so by your definition, "obscene"? Usually a heroine is overpowered, captured and something happens to her. Even though it is fantasy technically the character isn't consenting to what happens. Usually she is trying to prevent bad things from happening, just saying.

I consider a 'non-consensual' scene (text roleplay, video product, etc) between consenting adults to be a consensual situation. The game within the game, if you will.

The obscenity in my view is when one party to a fetish situation acts against the wishes/limits/agreed scope of another participant. Two (or more) people can certainly choose to play out a 'non-consensual scenario' - that very thing is right down my own fetish alley.

(I suppose I'm not speaking for people living certain fetish lifestyles, if that's your objection. Haven't given that any thought, TBH.)

[Abductorenmadrid]

......Other than that, everyone has their own favorite fetishes, but within the fetish universe I think non-consensual, non-cooperative play is obscene.....

But wouldn't you agree most Superheroine stuff is "non consensual" and so by your definition, "obscene"? Usually a heroine is overpowered, captured and something happens to her. Even though it is fantasy technically the character isn't consenting to what happens. Usually she is trying to prevent bad things from happening, just saying.

I consider a 'non-consensual' scene (text roleplay, video product, etc) between consenting adults to be a consensual situation. The game within the game, if you will.....

Thanks for your clarification, I wasn't sure what side of the reality line you were referring to. Yes of course a consented scene depicting non-consent is what you see on film, the fantasy. And of course people of a certain disposition can with the right person find delight in a consented non-consensual game. Once you move outside that scope you're moving on towards abuse :(

[DonShip]

I won't watch if children or animals are involved, but I also don't like the heroine to be killed or mutilated. I prefer she be humiliated at how much she enjoys being molested.

[MutantFiend]

I don't want children or animals involved, or anything with death. I'm not religious, but I don't like to see any religious references, such as the aforementioned crosses.

[Dazzle1]

I would say beastility kiddie porn.

[Heroine Addict]

I'm not sure it's really necessary to condemn the really sick trade in abuse, which has never been part of this genre. The question specified the superheroine genre as it stands today. I took it to be asking at what point does current existing SH material go too far?

Stuff which is already massively illegal and indefensible, such as real-life abuse and rape, is moot to a discussion of fantasies involving adult superheroines.

It's the equivalent of someone asking "When is a beer too strong for you?" on a beer forum and getting a load of replies from beer drinkers stating "I wouldn't want crack cocaine!"