The Marvels (2023, Marvel)

[Mr. X]

You've got two there from DC which gave us Gal Gadot as Wonder Woman and Zoe Kravitz as Catwoman. Meanwhile if you don't think Scarlett Johanssen is hot you're some kind of unprecdented turbogay and I can't help you.

Hot? When? Maybe Ironman 2. Check the last Black Widow movie. Where's the boobs, ass, legs, cleavage? Nothing. What was "sexy" in Thor Love and Thunder?

[VegaTaxeca]

You've got two there from DC which gave us Gal Gadot as Wonder Woman and Zoe Kravitz as Catwoman. Meanwhile if you don't think Scarlett Johanssen is hot you're some kind of unprecdented turbogay and I can't help you.

Hot? When? Maybe Ironman 2. Check the last Black Widow movie. Where's the boobs, ass, legs, cleavage? Nothing. What was "sexy" in Thor Love and Thunder?

Who does not see her as hot in the Black Widow movie has to be blind, me thinks.
She is super hot (as is the sister).

[Dogfish]

You've got two there from DC which gave us Gal Gadot as Wonder Woman and Zoe Kravitz as Catwoman. Meanwhile if you don't think Scarlett Johanssen is hot you're some kind of unprecdented turbogay and I can't help you.

Hot? When? Maybe Ironman 2. Check the last Black Widow movie. Where's the boobs, ass, legs, cleavage? Nothing. What was "sexy" in Thor Love and Thunder?

If you can't appreciate hotness unless you're objectifying a woman into pieces, again, I can't help you.

[sugarcoater]

I think Mr. X's point is a beautiful actress wearing a tame outfit is not sexy, it's a beautiful woman wearing an unflattering or mediocre outfit. This is not objectifying a woman, it's the various ways in which a person can wear something that makes them look sexy or beautiful or plain or daunting...you get the point. A woman wearing baggy jeans and a sweatshirt is not the same as a woman wearing spandex shorts and a sportsbra. It's like what was done with Supergirl's outfit in the series: the change in the costume was less than flattering. Perhaps the phrasing Mr. X used is a bit crass, but the point is valid.

[brdiy]

Scarlet Johansson is hot, no doubt about that, but we all must agree that between Iron Man 2 and the Black Widow movie, the hotness factor of the character has been deliberately toned down.

[Mr. X]

Scarlet Johansson is hot, no doubt about that, but we all must agree that between Iron Man 2 and the Black Widow movie, the hotness factor of the character has been deliberately toned down.

And contrast that with how the males are presented. Again Hemsworth all jacked and naked. Cavill shirtless for over 20 min in Justice League. Another aspect is no gratuitous shots. In Ironman 2 there were some cleavage and booty shots. In Black Widow there wasn't any real gratuitous shots.

If people want to make movies like that then fine but men appear to be so desperate for acceptance they are just settling for table scraps. Compare what we get today with the Raquel Welch and Ursella Andress we got in the past.

[Femina]

I've said it before, I'll say it again, and I know nobody (especially Mr. X) want's to hear the Math but......................

the Math doesn't align with the comfortable mainstream sexualization of women as as of now due primarily to the fact of the reticence to EVEN INCLUDE women in the first place during the Golden age of the genre. We're steadily getting more and more superheroines onscreen in the Marvelverse as of now, but alas it's come at the tail end of Marvel's time, at a point where the studio couldn't put out a good film to save their own lives... IF they can turn that around and get the boat back on track, with more women in lead roles than ever before (seriously, ONLY in about the last 3 or 4 years have they even tried to start building out Marvel's Roster of women into the MCU. If we had 20 years of folks FAWNING over the superheroines the same way we had 20 years of folks fawning over the HUGELY male driven Avengers films, who knows where we'd be right now.

That isn't the world we live in though, we live in the one where the MCU consistently treated even including superheroines into the series something like pulling a woman's trousers to far past their ankle, and thus, here we are.............. in fairness there's not a LOT we could have done about this on the viewer end... it's not like the MCU ever bothered to even TRY to gauge viewer interest in this venue... they can't learn anything cause they never TRIED anything... they're trying now it's just..... too late. You can't build an audience adoring your ladies enough to wean the public into falling in love with and subsequently wanting to see them 'super sexy' when your movies actually suck cause no one cares.

Mr X is of the opinion of course that tight bodysuits aren't sexy and always has been. That's a venue not worth arguing at him about, and I speak from experience. Black Widow was always sexy, she was sexiest in Iron Man 2 for sure... but she was always wearing a catsuit, always fit as a fiddle... doesn't matter to him. To 'Strawman' at him for comedic effect, 'Captain America doesn't wear his shirt in scenes B, and F therefore catsuits aren't sexy on women!' seems to be his primary (and admirably consistent) focal sort of argument in this arena... why I even once, perplexed, asked 'when did catsuits not count as sexy?' about the Flash Supergirl costume and received a reply from him of an image of a bunch of overweight women in catsuits....... as if that was relevant to the discussion at hand in ANY way xD... It's humorous, but his opinions of what is sexy, and them what find catsuits plenty sexy, are simply diametrically opposed. I think he just wants to see a lot of skin... nothing wrong with that, seems a bit all consuming at times I suppose but it is what it is. Different strokes for different folks. WW proved you could show a women's skin and still be a decent enough film that people would like, but in typical Hollywood fashion, they strived with all their might to learn the wrong lessons about the WW films success in EVERY venue, including the costuming.

[Mr. X]

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[Mr. X]

I've said it before, I'll say it again, and I know nobody (especially Mr. X) want's to hear the Math but......................

And I'll repeat. Empowered women do NOT bring people into the theater. Capt Marvel was between Endgame and Infinity. It was a fluke.
We're not seeing droves of women paying lots of money to see these movies. The woke crap is not winning and its bankrupting Disney etc.

with more women in lead roles than ever before (seriously, ONLY in about the last 3 or 4 years have they even tried to start building out Marvel's Roster of women into the MCU. If we had 20 years of folks FAWNING over the superheroines the same way we had 20 years of folks fawning over the HUGELY male driven Avengers films, who knows where we'd be right now.

We fawn over super heroines not KARENS with no real sex appeal WHO HATE THEIR MALE AUDIENCE MEMBERS.
These movies are driving customers away. This isn't a matter of replacing chocolate with peanut butter then hoping people get used to it. People see the diversity crap under the thin skin.

"Mr X is of the opinion of course that tight bodysuits aren't sexy and always has been."
Where? Where are these tight suits?

THIS is what we got in black widow? Ok post ONE SCENE even remotely like this. And the scenes in Black Widow are exactly comparable to Hemswoth and Cavil shirtless?
Spare me. And I know what we get isn't sexy cause that exact suit type in Black Widow (no cleavage, no skin, no tight ass, lots of armor" is no good selling porn videos. Nobody is emulating this to any degree.

Your argument is if we replaced Henry Cavil with Pee Wee Herman then told women they have to like that cause " their both men". Your "interchangeable" nonsense seems to only go one way. Where are the Pee Wee Hermans or Tom Arnolds on the cover of romance novels? Christian Gray... what is he?

[jlocke]

Do you guys ever get tired of every topic devolving into the same argument?