Superheroine Forum Mock Election 2016

[lionbadger]

With Debate #3 behind us, it looks like Trump's dead meat. The only question now is how badly he'll lose in November.

That presupposes he dosen't get some spetsnaz lads to bump off clinton before turning the US over to Putin

[shevek]

A woman's complete right to choose whether she brings a baby into this world (you can call it "abortion on demand" if you like, but that is where I stand philosophically) has always been my go-to issue. Hillary has done some seriously questionable stuff but I still can't support Gary Johnson because he is pro-life. I found that fact out many months ago and so ever since, I am a Hillary supporter and have actually worked indirectly for her campaign for the past month. The incredible pro-choice speech she made last night was the only time in pres debate history (unless Ferraro made similar statements? I don't remember but I doubt it) that someone stood up so thoroughly for Roe V Wade and for Planned Parenthood. She has made it abundantly that we will not turn back the clock, we will not return to the back-alleys and furthermore, we won't allow other less-advanced (there, I said it) cultures to drag us back, either. Hillary mentioned countries that either force abortions or ban them entirely. That was brave, because a lot of those places are either our friends (eg Saudis) or places with whom we're trying to have a constructive dialogue (eg China). What she should do, if elected, is bring true reproductive choice to all of the supposedly "civilized" pro-Western countries that supposedly emulate capitalism but still have their heads up the ass of the Pope, who despite all his liberalist statements will never by himself even allow contraception let alone abortion. For example, I am talking about Ireland, Poland and much of South America. First get the Christians on the same page, then work on Islam.

Trump will lose, and I never thought he would win, because he is a goofball idiot, which is why I never cared much about opposing him or panicking wildly about him like some of ultra-lefty types I know.

[shevek]

With Debate #3 behind us, it looks like Trump's dead meat. The only question now is how badly he'll lose in November.

That presupposes he dosen't get some spetsnaz lads to bump off clinton before turning the US over to Putin

Hey, are Trump and Putin in touch with the Swedish EBM duo Spetsnaz? Maybe I'd consider voting for him if he brings them to the States (j/k). But just so we're still on topic, Spetsnaz did make a Heroine in Peril video Plus Apathy is dangerous come election time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgGLRjR2hvk

[tallyho]

I'm pretty sure at some point Don is gonna say this poll is rigged

[Heroine Addict]

The tantrump about the media 'rigging' the election is hilarious. American news media has been biased in one way or another for years. It just so happens that this election has a much greater skew in media bias due to the Republican candidate being so woefully unqualified.

The only way to prevent that is for a state-appointed regulator (much like the UK's OfCom) to issue broadcast licenses which forbid bias. But I thought Trump was supposed to be against regulation?

Even then, how can the media maintain balance when one particular candidate is an actual Twitter troll who delivers several outrageous outbursts every single day?

[shevek]

Bad news for American politics in general: millennials - Obummered by 8 years of nothing and Bernied-out this year - are sitting out this election by either going third-party (a crazy 44%, mostly Johnson) or not voting, according to the Guardian. And if they don't develop a regular habit of voting now, they probably never will. Which will keep the boomers in charge for another couple decades. It's only blind luck that the Democrats fielded a candidate that both embodies babyboom women's liberation and represents a political dynasty. If they hadn't, Trump would triumph.

On the other hand, the politically apathetic (come on Guardian, that's like shooting fish in a barrel!) Arizona Wildcats cheerleaders in the video link below are insanely beautiful. Perhaps some of them might like to appear in superheroine videos to help pay their way through college
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/vid ... arty-video

[Bert]

@Heroine Addict - I think you need to find a better word than "bias" to describe media coverage of this election. Bias is favouring one side over the other. It isn't favouring Clinton to report on the daily outrages that Trump's campaign delivers. During the primary Trump benefited from the extensive media coverage his crazed campaign generated. Now he's suffering because of it. Either way, the media just reports the avalanche of lies and invective he spews. It isn't bias.

[Heroine Addict]

@Heroine Addict - I think you need to find a better word than "bias" to describe media coverage of this election. Bias is favouring one side over the other. It isn't favouring Clinton to report on the daily outrages that Trump's campaign delivers. During the primary Trump benefited from the extensive media coverage his crazed campaign generated. Now he's suffering because of it. Either way, the media just reports the avalanche of lies and invective he spews. It isn't bias.

In Trump's mind, every story "bashing" him (by reporting things he said and did) should be counterbalanced by equal coverage of Hillary Cinton's indiscretions. Or even the indiscretions of her husband. Which would mean constantly responding to Trump's daily headline bait by going back to the well of the email server and Monica's cum-stained dress.

Trump just doesn't grasp the concept of balance. To him, Hillary inviting real billionaire Mark Cuban to the first debate was justification enough to invite Bill Clinton's accusers to the second. He has an infantile notion that any action, no matter how crass, can be justified if he can say his opponent "started it" and claim a false equivalence.

Of course, the narrative of a "biased media rigging the election" is all part of the plan to launch Trump TV. If he loses the election, he can get revenge on anyone and everyone he thinks has wronged him with muckraking and conspiracy theories that would make Fox News look relatively fair and balanced by comparison. If he wins, more frighteningly, it will be a Pravda-style state propaganda network.

[Mr. X]

The non-voting is great news for Americans. It shows some are finally realizing politics is not a solution to social problems and in fact the vast majority of our issues are caused by politics. What the country needs is the fed to go away for 8 years, do nothing and let the economy recover. Sadly both parties will continue to meddle.

Its going to be interesting seeing how many people don't vote and its encouraging that counter economics is slowly stepping in and people are realizing government is not the solution to their problems. People are not stupid or evil. They know there is no money for free stuff.

[MightyHypnotic]

LOL!
https://www.facebook.com/itsthecycle/vi ... nref=story

[Heroine Addict]

Good luck with that "non-voting" thing. Seeing as one of the candidates has spouted tyrannical rhetoric about locking up his opponent, suing anyone who speaks out against him, presents scientific polls as "rigged" and riggable online polls as "true", denies scientific fact on climate change and is scaremongering about crime in order to justify martial law, there's a good chance you won't have the opportunity to vote in another democratic election.

Enjoy your Chairman Trump.


Let's not forget dear old Mike Pence. A man who denies the link between smoking and cancer. A Young Earther who denies the entire science of Geology. Meanwhile, he absolutely believes that gays should be subjected to conversion therapy of no proven scientific value.

And he's supposedly the "reasonable" half of the ticket

The two main parties' candidates are not remotely comparable. Trump and Pence are fundamentally opposed to inconvenient scientific facts while Clinton and Kaine live in, y'know, reality.

[MightyHypnotic]

Just a quick note. I created this thread for fun. If it starts getting ugly, I'm closing it but for now we're good...

[Mr. X]

Gonna yank this message. Was a little too drunk when I wrote that. Just shows I'm a diabolical villain at heart

[Richpartist]

I think to many people here have been sniffing the chloroform to much

[bushwackerbob]

Please believe me when I say that when I vote for trump on Tuesday, it will not be with any genuine enthusiasm. He is not even close to being my first or even second choice. I do believe however in the rule of law. We are a nation of laws, governed by the constitution. This is what helps keep us safe, it is the foundation upon which this country was built. On a base level, the constitution and the rule of law is what protects law abiding citizens from those who would violate those laws. Hillary Clinton does not respect the rule of law. Mrs. Clinton clearly believes the rule of law does not apply to her. Furthermore, it is also readily apparent that Mrs. Clinton does not see the constitution as a sacred founding document, but as an ever evolving tool to effect any social or societal change that her whim desires. No matter the subject, whether illegal immigration, uploading classified documents to her own servers, etc, we are a nation of laws, and we cannot pick and choose which laws we will follow and those we will break. In my opinion, Hillary Clinton's disdain for the rule of law makes her unfit to be President.

[Mr. X]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApcqXijVzYU

I have earned some new respect for TYT. Some good integrity here. Reporting on Hillary emails and the corporations sending money to her foundation and calling out the MSM for not reporting the real meat of the emails.

[miette]

Please believe me when I say that when I vote for trump on Tuesday, it will not be with any genuine enthusiasm. He is not even close to being my first or even second choice. I do believe however in the rule of law. We are a nation of laws, governed by the constitution. This is what helps keep us safe, it is the foundation upon which this country was built. On a base level, the constitution and the rule of law is what protects law abiding citizens from those who would violate those laws. Hillary Clinton does not respect the rule of law. Mrs. Clinton clearly believes the rule of law does not apply to her. Furthermore, it is also readily apparent that Mrs. Clinton does not see the constitution as a sacred founding document, but as an ever evolving tool to effect any social or societal change that her whim desires. No matter the subject, whether illegal immigration, uploading classified documents to her own servers, etc, we are a nation of laws, and we cannot pick and choose which laws we will follow and those we will break. In my opinion, Hillary Clinton's disdain for the rule of law makes her unfit to be President.

Okay, as a woman, I don't like the idea of Secretary Clinton (not Mrs. Clinton. She's earned every professional title she has.) becoming the first female president. But also as a woman, I am genuinely terrified to my core of Donald becoming president. You honestly believe that Donald hasn't broken the law?

Here's a short list, with linked citations, only updated as far as July: http://www.pajiba.com/politics/a-comple ... he-law.php

There is also a great deal of credible evidence that he raped AT LEAST 1 child. https://www.buzzfeed.com/mikehayes/this ... .dpvwyMr1E

There are other sources with this information, if you find these sites too "liberal" or whatever. Snopes even has the info.

Picture America as a car: we can let Secretary Clinton drive it. She has a few parking tickets, a fender bender or two on her record. But she has been a professional driver for 30 years. Or we can hand the car keys over to Mr. Donald Trump. He has no tickets, no crashes, thus a perfect driving record. But he's also the screaming toddler in the backseat who can't even see over the steering wheel and thinks that when you put gas in a car you just far on it. As far as knowing what they're doing and keeping this nation afloat until 2020, I'll take the one with the tickets and accidents, thanks.

[shevek]

I'm with you Miette. I'd rather take the criminal with the experience than the asshole with the tantrums. Plus I try not to play identity politics but I think it would be great for our world image to have a woman as President in a time when we have to deal with sexism and misogyny (not the imaginary heroine-in-peril kind) from almost every corner of the world (oppressive religious laws in Islam, slavery in Africa and India, rape gangs in Africa and India, human trafficking in Southeast Asia, honor killings in Islam, machismo and abortion bans and lethal gangs in Latin America, eliminating female children in China, Russian men just being the thuggish dicks they are etc) not to mention homophobia. Clinton has spoken to that in the past, toe to toe with the likes of Malala Yousafzai, and will do it many times again. Trump won't do squat. He denigrates women every chance he gets.

Also, thanks Mr. X for the link - been a while since I've seen TYT. Good on Cenk for not being his usual liberal asskissing self.

[tallyho]

Bushwackerbob, if as you say you respect the rule of law you can't possibly vote Trump - he's broken the law far more times than listed above he's just better at hiding it.

[Kitten]

Whatever your issues are with Clinton, I can't see Trump getting elected.

He's just living in the wrong decade and doesn't have the what it takes to be in politics.

As bad as things are these days, i can't imagine how much worse it'll be if he's elected.

Now if he were appointed as part of a cabinet, to make use of some of the areas he does actually have specialty in, that i can get behind, but the oval office? No, i'm hoping that's a pipe dream.

[tallyho]

Lol,Some areas he has specialities in? Like not paying your invoices to small supplier companies so they go bust and then you can buy them on the cheap and become your own supplier, that sort of expertise, or the 6 times he's been a declared bankrupt and also failed to clear his debts to lesser firms driving them to the wall, that kind of skill? The only practical skill he can offer anyone is on the use of comb-overs, as I'm guessing he's tried them all. If you need that in your cabinet then , yup, he's your man

[Heroine Addict]

Lol,Some areas he has specialities in? Like not paying your invoices to small supplier companies so they go bust and then you can buy them on the cheap and become your own supplier, that sort of expertise, or the 6 times he's been a declared bankrupt and also failed to clear his debts to lesser firms driving them to the wall, that kind of skill? The only practical skill he can offer anyone is on the use of comb-overs, as I'm guessing he's tried them all. If you need that in your cabinet then , yup, he's your man

Most disturbingly, Trump has suggested defaulting on America's debt in order to renegotiate a better deal. Applying the scam tactics he used to destroy other people's businesses to destroy the economies of entire nations.

[Kitten]

The man has intimate knowledge of the rules and regulations and loopholes.

Someone like that would be useful for pushing to close them.

Use it a thief to catch a thief theory of application.

No one is irredeemably useless. With Trump, you just have to look a little harder.

[tallyho]

You seriously think he is going to close the very loopholes that he is using to avoid paying his dues? And thereby incur the wrath of his billionaire buddies? I love your optimism Miss K! The trouble with your analogy is he doesn't see himself as a thief in the first place, and if in his eyes he has done nothing wrong how can he see it in others? The man clearly has no morals whatsoever. I suspect he sold his moral compass on eBay, then refused to give a refund when the buyer complained that it doesn't work!
That buyer may have been Putin who figured what the hell...

[miette]

The man has intimate knowledge of the rules and regulations and loopholes.

Someone like that would be useful for pushing to close them.

Use it a thief to catch a thief theory of application.

No one is irredeemably useless. With Trump, you just have to look a little harder.

Except he doesn't have "intimate knowledge" of anything. Here's an interview with the accountant who did his and his father's taxes for decades pointing out that all Donald ever did was sign on the dotted line. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/jac ... 995f2c6a89

[meepmeep]

You have a choice between a seasoned diplomat who understands how the United States government operates, and a celebrity who as recently as March of this year said in a public interview that he thought the United States Supreme Court had prosecutorial authority.

[Heroine Addict]

You have a choice between a seasoned diplomat who understands how the United States government operates, and a celebrity who as recently as March of this year said in a public interview that he thought the United States Supreme Court had prosecutorial authority.

This is a guy who was asserting the guilt of the Central Park Five as recently as last month. Despite there being overwhelming proof of their innocence and the actual culprit's guilt.

This is a guy who thinks that as President he can appoint a special prosecutor for any case he personally wants re-opened. (Particularly a case involving a political rival.)

This is a guy who merrily advocates war crimes such as torture, murdering the entire families of terrorists and stealing the main asset (oil) of a sovereign state.

We all know the loudmouth who "puts the world to rights" with ill-conceived ideas that are like something from an angry adolescent's Punisher fanfic. We mostly ignore these sad cretins in everyday life. Yet now such a person is frighteningly close to being appointed to the most powerful position on Earth.

He's already fearmongering about rising crime and talks of parts of America being a war zone. Exactly the sort of thing a tyrant would say to impose a state of emergency and bypass the pesky constitution.

[tallyho]

We all know the loudmouth who "puts the world to rights" with ill-conceived ideas that are like something from an angry adolescent's Punisher fanfic. We mostly ignore these sad cretins in everyday life. Yet now such a person is frighteningly close to being appointed to the most powerful position on Earth.

No I'm not! Oh right you mean Mr T., sorry, as you were. Right up until that last sentence you had me pegged!

[Philo Hunter]

I think one of the craziest things from this election is that the Reilgious right as supported Trump so heartily. I hope that's brought up for the next twenty years every time they try to fight against a candidate on any morale ground, the dirty hypocrites.

[loveit23]

What a joke she won ! You people want a crook for president instead of someone who doesn't put up with all the bull shit and wants to get
things done !!!! She gets in it will be another waste just like the last eight years !!!!!!!!!

[Bert]

I think one of the craziest things from this election is that the Reilgious right as supported Trump so heartily. I hope that's brought up for the next twenty years every time they try to fight against a candidate on any morale ground, the dirty hypocrites.

Since they're hypocrites, I don't think bringing it up will bother them.

[Philo Hunter]

What a joke she won ! You people want a crook for president instead of someone who doesn't put up with all the bull shit and wants to get
things done !!!! She gets in it will be another waste just like the last eight years !!!!!!!!!

You really think Trump isn't morally a crook? With the way he has mistreated people who have worked for him, short changing them and ruining lives?

And the last eight years have been FAR from a waste if you're not white or male or care about people who aren't. Our country has seen amazing progress that I hope to see continue.

[bushwackerbob]

First of all miette, according to the Office of Protocol, only current cabinet secretaries are supposed to be addressed as secretary, not former cabinet members. Is Donald Trump a boorish douche who thinks he is God's gift to women and is prone to making crude remarks? Sure. In the unlikely event that he wins, he won't be the first douche in the oval office and he certainly will not be the last, and if he has a D next to his name I am sure he will have your vote. Regarding all of the women that have come forward, I really don't know. The timing of all of these allegations gives me pause, just as I imagine you feel regarding the discovery of the newly found e-mails in the Clinton investigation. I suppose they both have broken the law, but the difference is that Donald Trump was a private businessman motivated by his own self interest, whereas Mrs. Clinton was a public official, she was working for us, for our interests not hers. Because she is acting in our name she is necessarily held to a higher standard, that her conduct must be above board, beyond reproach. There is absolutely no comparison between shady, possibly illegal business dealings and the willful disregard of the law regarding the existence of classified information on unsecured servers done in our name and on our dime. I only pray that there are enough people on Tuesday to understand the difference.

[Ninja J.]

If we can see past that Clinton is deceitful and a career politician and that Trump is a sexist and a racist and a Islamophobe and a moron and a ego maniacal grade-A douchbag and just talked about the issues there really is no comparison between the two. Just look at Trumps disastrous platform on the issues.

-Trump wants to build a wall. Who's going to pay for it? I guarantee you, not Mexico. So either The Wall isn't happening or it's coming from the taxpayers. No thanks. Trump's plan also doesn't take into account people that entered legally but haven't renewed their visas. Actually nothing about his faulty Immigration Plan has really been elaborated on except that he's going to "Build a great wall."
-Trump wants a Muslim immigration ban. Firstly, how do you enforce that? How do you know who is Muslim and who isn't? Trump really means he wants to ban all people of Middle Eastern decent, many of which are immigrants leaving with their children from their country that is now rumble. This is racist, immoral, un-American and impossible to enforce.
-Trump wants a Supreme Court Justice who's like Scalia. I'm sure a Scalia-like Justice,would make a great Justice in the 1950s. This is gonna be 2017. Most of Scalia's views and rulings were completely outdated. A Scalia-like justice would also try to overturn Roe v Wade which would be terrible, end Marriage Equality, which would be idiotic and restrict the rights of African Americans which would be racist. That's the kind of person Trump wants on the Court though.
-Trump wants to bring back "stop and frisk" then lied when he said that murders went up after stop and frisk was repealed. Not only is stop and frisk completely unconstitutional when done to anyone, the fact that most police officers were enforcing it mostly on black people made it extremely racist as well but Trump thinks it needs to return. It's a strange way to appeal to black voters by reinstating such a racist practice.
-Trump wants to repeal the Affordable Care Act. The ACA needs to be fixed not repealed. Repealing it would be a huge disaster to millions of people that use it. Trump says he'll replace it with "something better" but never says want that magical thing is.
-Trump wants to bomb the shit outta ISIS. That's great but it's not that simple when there's thousands of innocent people in the cities Trump wants to bomb (possibly nuke?). Trump also said that Russia, Syria, and Iran are fighting ISIS. This is completely untrue. His lacking of foreign policy is very evident and Trump's plan to solve the crisis in Allepo is non existent. He says Allepo is already lost.
-Trump wants to give "the highest tax cut in history" to the wealthiest. We've already played this game and it caused a great recession and almost did worse. This is trickle down economics and it's proven time and time again terrible for the middle class. It's great if you are rich or have rich friends though.

There's probably more but I can't think of them right now. The point is Trump's policies are a joke. They may sound good but when you do some homework you find out just how stupid they really are. For us middle class Americans, Clinton isn't the perfect candidate but she's light years ahead of Trump. And while a third candidate would be music to my ears, it's proven that Gary Johnson is a complete fucking retard and Jill Stein is a burnt out hippy. Just when I thought this was an opportunity for a third or fourth party candidate to shine, we get these two fuckheads. For me, Clinton is the only choice and it's really not even a bad choice. Once you actually look into the issues it's a no-brainer in my opinion.

[Disciple]

When all's said and done, I think the best thing we can say about this election is that we can all look at each other wearily, nod our heads, and go "At least the next one can't be worse."

[loveit23]

Our country has seen amazing progress ! What planet are you on ? For eight years you get no interest on your money you get nothing
on a cd . Oh and the spaghetti sauce is all watered down the soda is watered down !!!! Companies are still letting workers go ,what a
joke !!!! He wants to give the terrorists a pat on the ass and give them the paper and a good meal ! Oh and wait till she lets all these
people in that will kill us . That is their plan to filter in with the refuges !! How can people elect someone to run our country when you put top secret info out there for everyone to see !!! Oh it was a mistake , well you can't use an eraser to fix it . It's not a mistake it's stupid !
WHAT A JOKE WAKE UP PEOPLE !!!!!!!!!!!!!

[theScribbler]

Donald Trump is "all the bull shit!"

[Bert]

Politically correct language has become a factor in this election. Allow me to bypass PC talk and get straight to the point. And this isn't me, it's the demographics talking, I'm just eliminating the bafflegab. If you are a stupid person, you support Trump. If you are not a stupid person, you cannot support Trump. See, simple and clear.

[tallyho]

Oh and wait till she lets all these
people in that will kill us . That is their plan to filter in with the refuges !

Yeah....cos ya know...it's like virtually impossible to get in illegally across the border from Mexico....or just step over it from the thousands of miles of wilderness from Canada....or land on thousands of miles of seaboard on either coast....


BUT
Before more names get called let's just remember to keep this thread light people.

[Heroine Addict]

Well, 31% of Trump supporters are so worried about immigration that they want an ATLANTIC WALL to keep the Muslims out.

In other disturbing yet hilarious polling of Trump supporters:
40% of them believe Hillary Clinton is an actual demon.
75% believe a Hillary win could only be due to 'rigging'.
32% believe ACORN will 'steal' the election for Clinton.
59% believe Obama was born outside the US.
65% believe Obama is a Muslim.

Source: PPP

Now, these figures fluctuate a bit from poll to poll. Belief in ACORN 'stealing' the election went down to 32% after an earlier poll quoting 40% was widely reported. Yet a third of Trump supporters still persisted in the irrational belief that an organization that hasn't existed since 2010 could somehow 'steal' the election for Clinton.

It's pretty fair to say that a huge amount of Trump support comes from people who could most charitably be described as extremely low information voters. I mean we're talking about people who don't grasp the logistical impossibility of an Atlantic wall.

[Heroine Addict]

Trump's latest endorsement...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7V2Zmbx5Y0

Trump's candidacy has emboldened the KKK and other white nationalist groups who have been on the lunatic fringe for decades, along with mainstreaming paranoid conspiracy nuts such as Alex "the victims of the hoax Sandy Hook massacre were just actors" Jones.

These people think their time has come.

[loveit23]

Oh and wait till she lets all these
people in that will kill us . That is their plan to filter in with the refuges !

Yeah....cos ya know...it's like virtually impossible to get in illegally across the border from Mexico....or just step over it from the thousands of miles of wilderness from Canada....or land on thousands of miles of seaboard on either coast....
Yeah that's why it needs to stop ! So why let more in ! People need to wake up ! They have a plan these few attacks are nothing ! They have
more coming and clinton isn't going to do nothing !!!!!!!!!!

BUT
Before more names get called let's just remember to keep this thread light people.

[tallyho]

Why let more people in? You are a nation founded on immigration.
'Bring me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breath free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest tossed to me, I lift my lamp by the golden door!'

Ring any bells?
Or you gonna add 'except Mexicans, Muslims and Non-Rich Models'

[Mr. X]

I am 100% for open borders but I am curious about the people who want free college, free health care and massive welfare systems. How do you run those when anyone can come across the border and use them? Wouldn't that overload the system and crash it, which BTW I am all for.

The EU (up until the recent migrant issue) had closed borders. Most countries were stingy in that area. You could visit no problem but you couldn't just up and move to Sweden and get all the free goodies. Sweden has a two tier system so even if you get in you don't get the full package. Same with Denmark, Norway etc... all very strict immigration. Its hard enough to get into Denmark to go to college. Even Canada doesn't just let people come over the border and get free health care. even S. America has strict borders. Mexico doesn't let immigrants just come and go across its southern border. Vicente Fox even stated they couldn't because they have huge social programs.

So just curious how that's going to work with an open border (other than to my advantage)?

[Heroine Addict]

Neither candidate advocates open borders in the sense of anyone from anywhere being allowed to come and go as they please.

Clinton's comments from her 2013 speech appear to be referring to trade and energy. Although we don't know the exact context of the quoted paragraph.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter ... ave-open-/


Strangely enough, Trump held a very similar position in 2013.
http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/10/ ... ders-trade

[ksire_99]

Why let more people in? You are a nation founded on immigration.
'Bring me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breath free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest tossed to me, I lift my lamp by the golden door!'

Ring any bells?
Or you gonna add 'except Mexicans, Muslims and Non-Rich Models'

We still are, just it is best that they come in legally.

In the past Immigrants that came through Ellis Island (where Statue of Liberty is) or other government identified locations where immigrants were inspected and either allowed in or not. It WAS important to Americans that the immigrants could support themselves and have money to get started.

We didn't just let anyone in like we do now!

Please read:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellis_Island

[Richpartist]

In the end neither one will do much to effect you and me but I wonder why we always either try to shut down talk we dont agree with or even call opinions less evolved or stupid or even backwards if we dont agree with them.I'm Catholic(yes a actual Catholic)and as much as Trump seems like a overgrown brat I'm voting for him because I cant and wont ever vote for someone who believes in the "right" to kill your own baby even on the day its about to be born.As for her possibly being a felon,why is that ok to vote for?Why is that "better" than a guy who talks crap but hasnt done any where near what she has done.Is this what we expect from these people,if it is we will get what we deserve.As for the press,its obvious the clinton news network is full of crap and msnbc no one even watches and of course Fox is leaning right but what choice do they have when everyone else are lemmings and about to fall off the cliff leaning left?I'm sure she probably will win,anything's possible in a country that allows and keeps quiet about such things.Good luck and God bless us all

[Mr. X]

Neither candidate advocates open borders in the sense of anyone from anywhere being allowed to come and go as they please.

Clinton's comments from her 2013 speech appear to be referring to trade and energy. Although we don't know the exact context of the quoted paragraph.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter ... ave-open-/


Strangely enough, Trump held a very similar position in 2013.
http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/10/ ... ders-trade

So can people then be a little honest about what they refer to as "immigration"? No one is wanting to stop all immigration of all people. And its pretty obvious both parties accept that the border cannot be open since they aren't dumb enough to simply flood their welfare system and other services. Even the left CLEARLY accepts this.

So both sides are disingenuous. The left has got to stop with this mindset that somehow the right wants to stop all immigration. The left ACCEPTS that there has to be border controls. ALL EU COUNTRIES have border controls, some many times more strict than the US. Also the left will never deny social services to immigrants... there voting block. Not going to happen. They already allow immigrants to send their kids to US schools even if they are not born here. They already allow use of welfare.

And the right has got to stop this nonsense about a wall. No wall will stop illegals. Show me any height wall and I'll show you a one inch taller ladder. And policing Muslims isn't going to stop terrorism.

I am suspicious that good cop/bad cop is going on here. The left sets up the right to do their dirty work for them. The left balks about the border then steps aside or empowers the right to then wall the border then plays the helpless angel. Kind of like the high school cheerleader who calls for peace while she turns her back as her bully boyfriend beats up all the nerds she does not like. Then its bygones and "oh well, bad bad bad boyfriend". I think republicans now only exist to be the scapegoat party of the democrats. Jolt cola democrat or diet democrat.

Get the conversation straight and stop the emotional appeals.

I on the other hand want a 100% transparent border. The best way in the world to destroy social programs. The fat man will never diet until he has a heart attack.

[Lordofheroines17]

You guys know the scary thing? Trump is now either tied or leading in latest polls.

If hes president its because america did it to itself. Hilary did it to her self. The DNC and hilary conspired against bernie sanders (this is now fact thanks to leaked emails) She is epitome of corrupt store bough politician put in pace by the corporate elite. As I learned in political science, when the people trust the military and dont trust the government, well it never turns out well. When the military has more legitimacy than the government it historically ends up leading to tryanny. Trump, whether hes smart enough to know it or not, has facist tendencies. Nativism , single out a group of people as the "problem" and using the anger and fear of the people to rise to power. *remind you of anyone? That someone also had media saying no hes just saying what he has to to get in power, he doesnt really mean that...well in the case of the someone we are thinking of, he did. We have no reason to believe that trump wont do the crazy things he said he would. Extremism thrives when citizens are angry and mistreated. Hilary represents the establishment that has served only the rich at the detriment of the people and Trump represents the consequences of systemic corruption in power.

Bernie Sanders was my hope for president. God Help us now....
sorry for typos

[tallyho]

Bernie Sanders was my hope for president. God Help us now....

Cheer up! He still makes great chicken!