DC Comics still ruining Men's Fantasies

[killorson]

DC is still heading in the wrong direction.. The usual hypocritical, hysterical scream fest happened over a Catwoman cover, and now there are massive changes on the book. Amethyst is in pants, she no longer has a skirt. Sadly, for fans of skirts and legs, DC has a particular war against that going on and no title female characters wear the skirts anymore. Look at Power Girl's costume change and Black Canary's... this list could keep going. The female characters keep getting less and less sexy. THis is at the same time as every superhero movie has needs a scene where the leading hero poses shirtless while women in the audience squeal. This is at the same time DC had a Smallville show basically about how Superboy and Green Arrow look with their clothes off. Take a look at Nightwing, Superboy, I Vampire, etc. and how women and gay males react to them. Everywhere anyone turns there are objectified male bodies and women eating it up. Why aren't we even allowed this one fantasy?

DC has lost me until skirts, fishnets, and the traditionally sexy costumes come back and the female characters can be ever bit as much a fantasy for us as vampires and Superheroes are for them. We are in danger of losing sexy females in movies, TV, and comics forever. Why do we let them ruin it for us? The hypocritical/misandrist groups launch coordinated assaults any time there is a sexy portrayal of a female and DC and many others just roll over and do whatever they want. Why don't we do the same? Why don't we stop buying the books. Why don't we fill up message boards and the like with our complaints? Why do we let them bully us? Why don't we pull the same stuff on Twilight boards, Romance Novel boards, women's programming boars, and all the sexy male hero boards, and try an ruin their fantasies for a change?

I know I won't purchase anything DC relate or see any DC movies until they stop being controlled by these women's groups. If large numbers of us don't do the same and don't start being equally vocal and equally obnoxious as they are, we will have absolutely nothing soon enough.

[Unmaskee]

It's kind of funny really that though I like the whole dominated women stuff in my arousing fantasies in general comic reading stuff I probably think DC are doing the right thing.

I don't think these female characters should be there just to be sexy for the men. Women are drawn in incredibly horrible ugly way, body wise, in most comics.

Though I've never been particularly drawn to skirt wearing super heroines anyway.

I think what I'm basically saying is that the comics are a separate entity from our superheroine 'porn' if you like. The comics should be less objectifying of women.

Maybe I feel this way is more because through these domination fantasies I'm empathising with the victim rather than perpetrator.

[ttb51m]

the demo graphic is the same though, young males 16-21 and 18-35 they buy more comics and merch than all the other demos combined, DC has the minority on superheroines (sheer NO#'s) and they seem the most restricted with thier drawings and stories, Marvel seems to push the line as it is (and god bless them for it although from what i understand BLACKHORSE comics is owned by the same Co as DC and they are basically graphic novel porn (some of the charecters anyway) I guess it isnt drawn for arousing males (or females) thats just a bonus sometimes!

[tallyho]

I disagree with Unmaskee in that surely it is the way they have sold/ marketed these heroines that has made them a success in the first place, but now that they are successful they are disassociating themselves from that fanbase. What is wrong with a female heroine looking feminine?
Just my 2.

[Superman246o1]

DC has lost me until skirts, fishnets, and the traditionally sexy costumes come back and the female characters can be ever bit as much a fantasy for us as vampires and Superheroes are for them. We are in danger of losing sexy females in movies, TV, and comics forever. Why do we let them ruin it for us? The hypocritical/misandrist groups launch coordinated assaults any time there is a sexy portrayal of a female and DC and many others just roll over and do whatever they want. Why don't we do the same? Why don't we stop buying the books. Why don't we fill up message boards and the like with our complaints? Why do we let them bully us? Why don't we pull the same stuff on Twilight boards, Romance Novel boards, women's programming boars, and all the sexy male hero boards, and try an ruin their fantasies for a change?

I know I won't purchase anything DC relate or see any DC movies until they stop being controlled by these women's groups. If large numbers of us don't do the same and don't start being equally vocal and equally obnoxious as they are, we will have absolutely nothing soon enough.

Wherever there is a profit to be made, there will be someone trying to cash in on it. DC doesn't care about a feminist or masculine agenda; more than anything else, it just cares about making money. The Twi-hards have a lot of influence because they spend a lot of money on the Bella/Edward/That-Guy-Who-Looks-Like-An-Alpaca love triangle (an estimated $3 billion, according to one source). If we could throw $3 billion towards, say, Supergirl being repeatedly caught in perilous situations, the industry would respond accordingly.



"What the...? I'm going to the Phantom Zone again?"


Sadly, we don't have that kind of buying power. If we did, there would have been at least a trilogy of Supergirl films, a Wonder Woman television show made in the past 30 years, and at least one live-action Ms. Marvel.

Nevertheless, the best we can do is vote with our dollars. DC wants to make its heroines less sexy? They have that right. And we have the right to devote our hard-earned money to people that portray superheroines in the manner to which we are accustomed. Stop giving your money to DC, and maybe they'll realize that alienating their core audience is not a good business model. They've changed Wonder Woman multiple times (including giving her pants...twice), but they always come back to the star-spangled swimsuit because her sales go up when she's wearing her traditional uniform.

What we support = what we will get more of in the future.

[ttb51m]

buy the vids and pictures, make recommendation/requests as needed

10 years ago there was one site (that i knew of) and now look at it, he is correct about us as a whole, supply and demand makes the superheroine go down,,,,,,, i mean, around

if there is more demand there is more supply to tap into the money

[Imagineer]

I know I won't purchase anything DC relate or see any DC movies until they stop being controlled by these women's groups. If large numbers of us don't do the same and don't start being equally vocal and equally obnoxious as they are, we will have absolutely nothing soon enough.

Did you tell DC this in a letter? Did you cancel all your DC subs at your comic book shop, and ask them to let you know if DC ever got their head out of their ass and quit screwing with costumes?

And are you really going to skip "The Dark Knight Rises" over this? You know, the movie with Catwoman in a skintight suit with prominent breasts and butt, and halfway-up-the-thigh boots with razor-sharp stiletto heels?

And have you see the way The New 52 dresses Harley Quinn in Suicide Squad? Hot damn.

[Heroine Addict]

DC has lost me until skirts, fishnets, and the traditionally sexy costumes come back and the female characters can be ever bit as much a fantasy for us as vampires and Superheroes are for them. We are in danger of losing sexy females in movies, TV, and comics forever. Why do we let them ruin it for us? The hypocritical/misandrist groups launch coordinated assaults any time there is a sexy portrayal of a female and DC and many others just roll over and do whatever they want. Why don't we do the same? Why don't we stop buying the books. Why don't we fill up message boards and the like with our complaints? Why do we let them bully us? Why don't we pull the same stuff on Twilight boards, Romance Novel boards, women's programming boars, and all the sexy male hero boards, and try an ruin their fantasies for a change?

It's not a matter of "THEM" (females) and "US" (males), though. I doubt there's much crossover between the girls/women who go all gooey over Twilight/Smallville and the militant feminists who protest about the objectification of women in the media, so lumping all females together as "THEM" is pointless.

Wherever there is a profit to be made, there will be someone trying to cash in on it. DC doesn't care about a feminist or masculine agenda; more than anything else, it just cares about making money. The Twi-hards have a lot of influence because they spend a lot of money on the Bella/Edward/That-Guy-Who-Looks-Like-An-Alpaca love triangle (an estimated $3 billion, according to one source). If we could throw $3 billion towards, say, Supergirl being repeatedly caught in perilous situations, the industry would respond accordingly.

Yep, that really is the bottom line. The sales figures for comic books are extremely low these days. (A single edition of Wonder Woman, for example, might sell under 50,000 copies worldwide.) I suspect DC's tweaking and re-tweaking of their under-performing superheroines is due to desperation, rather than a sinister feminist agenda.

Of course, putting iconic heroines into sexless new outfits is hardly a new thing...

[The UG]

DC is still heading in the wrong direction.. The usual hypocritical, hysterical scream fest happened over a Catwoman cover, and now there are massive changes on the book. Amethyst is in pants, she no longer has a skirt. Sadly, for fans of skirts and legs, DC has a particular war against that going on and no title female characters wear the skirts anymore. Look at Power Girl's costume change and Black Canary's... this list could keep going. The female characters keep getting less and less sexy. THis is at the same time as every superhero movie has needs a scene where the leading hero poses shirtless while women in the audience squeal. This is at the same time DC had a Smallville show basically about how Superboy and Green Arrow look with their clothes off. Take a look at Nightwing, Superboy, I Vampire, etc. and how women and gay males react to them. Everywhere anyone turns there are objectified male bodies and women eating it up. Why aren't we even allowed this one fantasy?

DC has lost me until skirts, fishnets, and the traditionally sexy costumes come back and the female characters can be ever bit as much a fantasy for us as vampires and Superheroes are for them. We are in danger of losing sexy females in movies, TV, and comics forever. Why do we let them ruin it for us? The hypocritical/misandrist groups launch coordinated assaults any time there is a sexy portrayal of a female and DC and many others just roll over and do whatever they want. Why don't we do the same? Why don't we stop buying the books. Why don't we fill up message boards and the like with our complaints? Why do we let them bully us? Why don't we pull the same stuff on Twilight boards, Romance Novel boards, women's programming boars, and all the sexy male hero boards, and try an ruin their fantasies for a change?

I know I won't purchase anything DC relate or see any DC movies until they stop being controlled by these women's groups. If large numbers of us don't do the same and don't start being equally vocal and equally obnoxious as they are, we will have absolutely nothing soon enough.

Honestly, I've never noticed, lol.

Mainly because I'm a hardcore superhero fan anyway, there for the story. But also because I'm very picky when it comes to superheroine costumes anyway, if you've seen some of my various posts/rants on the forum.

For example, my Supergirl would wear an extremely skimpy red microskirt and red platform sandals. My Wonder Woman would blend the traditional Amazon design with a little jungle girl, trading those cluncky boots for golden sandals and a two-piece outfit.

I can see where you are coming from, though...but in the end, DC is marketing to the widest audience ever, so they are trying to "tame" their licensed properties.

[Centurion]

I don't really have an interest in this because I stopped buying comic books when they began to go in the direction of too much violence (like the Batman graphic novels). When Captain America started carrying a gun, that's where I drew the line.

But Unmaskee has a good point. Comic books are NOT the same as this superheroine porn stuff. Two entirely different genres. If you get used to comic book violence on the grounds that it's "more realistic", you also have to accept "more realistic" costumes for the women. Either that or hope that someday they go back to their roots and become the nice fantasy figures that comic book heroes and heroines used to be when we were kids.

[The UG]

I don't really have an interest in this because I stopped buying comic books when they began to go in the direction of too much violence (like the Batman graphic novels). When Captain America started carrying a gun, that's where I drew the line.

Which Batman graphic novels?

And Cap carrying a gun? Must have been Ultimate Cap...

[killorson]

I don't think the 'realistic violence' means 'realistic costumes' argument holds any water at all. Any way you slice it, it's gender specific, only targeting female costumes. No matter what one attempts to say to justify lessening the sex appeal of superheroines, it's pathetically easy to point out numerous males who are allowed to violate said 'law.' Batman and Superman's costumes are far from realistic. The cowl would limit his vision and capes are completely ridiculous. Also the tightness of male costumes (to the point that ab muscles are clearly visible) is absurd and in no way realistic. The allergies that men in female fantasies seem to have to shirts is also unrealistic. If the female characters must be less sexy than they were from the 30s to the 90s, then the male characters need to be held to the same standards. That means male characters should have loose fitting costumes that cover all the skin below the neck.

DC is only targeting a single gender for sex appeal reduction and they are doing it in an era where every Superhero movie gets a shirtless scene, vampire and werewolf porn abounds, magic mike exists, and women's fantasies are everywhere you turn. It's obviously a double standard, and I think it needs to be fought back against hard. We don't deserve to be told we are horrible people for having Supergirl crushes by the same people freeze framing all of the shirtless scenes in Smallville. I'm not touching any DC products or DC sponsor's products until Supergirl has a short skirt and doesn't have shorts underneath, Black Canary and Zatanna have fishnets, etc.

Until we see some leg and some skin below the neck and superheroines are allowed to be as sexy as they used to be, as sexy as the superheroes, as sexy as the vampires, I don't want anything to do with comics or comic book movies. Hell the superhero movies feel more like 'Magic Mike' than comic books anyways. If women/gay men get to enjoy that, why do we have to stick in decades old DVDs to get the same enjoyment?

[killorson]

I agree with Superman246o1's point "stop buying DC," "support those that portray sexy heroines," and "vote with your dollars." It is hard liking the teasing sexuality of Supergirl in a short skirt, because this is what was taken away. The over the top, near-naked warrior women are less my thing.

It is true that we don't spend the money on our fantasies the way women do on theirs, but that is part of larger gender double standards that piss me off. If we enjoy beautiful women, we called "pervs" and "creepy" and worse. Images that portray sexy females are called "trashy" and "sexist" and "objectification." We are made to feel ashamed to have working man parts and natural desires. We are supposed to be ashamed to be caught looking at a sexy girl on the computer or on the TV. We are supposed to be ashamed to be seen buying a comic featuring a sexy female or going into a movie featuring a sexy female. Women, however, feel no shame about going with their friends to see Twilight and Magic Mike or purchasing romance novels.

We could make movies and comic books featuring sexy females top sellers too, if only American men weren't so scared of the female body and ashamed of their natural desires. I have no problem buying tickets to Sucker Punch, purchasing sexy comic books or watching cheerleaders on TV while others are around. I wish the majority of men also did this.

[Centurion]

It is true that we don't spend the money on our fantasies the way women do on theirs, but that is part of larger gender double standards that piss me off.

Are you nuts? I didn't notice that Hollywood stopped making teen comedies like "American Pie" because the feminists complained. What world do you live in?

Has it ever occured to you that what DC Comics is trying to do is distance their characters (at least publically) from the superheroine porn image that has been sweeping the Internet? I mean let's face it, guys. If you Google "superheroine" on the Internet, chances are very good what you'll find is porn. I'm certainly not saying there's anything wrong with that (because you'll notice I belong to this forum, too) but maybe DC doesn't want that image.

Now you're going to say they have the legal right to sue for copywrite violation of their characters. What good would that do? Most of us are only in it for the fun of it. My impression is that even the video producers barely make a living at it. So after DC has paid off its lawyers, the only satisfaction they get is shutting down the website... until it starts up again the next day under a new name. If there were ever an exercise in futility, it would be trying to stamp out sex!

Besides, fanboys who like the sex fantasies MIGHT also pay for a genuine comic book every now and then. People obviously don't hate the new costumes enough to stop buying the comics. If they did, they would change them back in a heartbeat. So there is no actual downside. DC has their cake and gets to eat it too. The sexy image is there, all over the Internet. They can publically disassociate themselves from it, but they still reap the benefits.

[Centurion]

I don't really have an interest in this because I stopped buying comic books when they began to go in the direction of too much violence (like the Batman graphic novels). When Captain America started carrying a gun, that's where I drew the line.

Which Batman graphic novels?

And Cap carrying a gun? Must have been Ultimate Cap...

I'd be the first to admit I'm out of touch. I haven't bought a comic book in 20 years. I was thinking of the first Batman movie with Michael Keaton, where he wore body armor. If Batman had to get bulked up like that, how can we imagine Batgirl in tights and high heels anymore?

I haven't even been in a comic book store since I heard that Marvel had "killed off" Captain America. When the new movie came out, I noticed he was carrying a gun, that's all.

I've got a box full of old comics from the 70s and 80s, and when I feel nostalgic, I look at them.

[RedMountain]

I don't really have an interest in this because I stopped buying comic books when they began to go in the direction of too much violence (like the Batman graphic novels). When Captain America started carrying a gun, that's where I drew the line.

Which Batman graphic novels?

And Cap carrying a gun? Must have been Ultimate Cap...

I'd be the first to admit I'm out of touch. I haven't bought a comic book in 20 years. I was thinking of the first Batman movie with Michael Keaton, where he wore body armor. If Batman had to get bulked up like that, how can we imagine Batgirl in tights and high heels anymore?

I haven't even been in a comic book store since I heard that Marvel had "killed off" Captain America. When the new movie came out, I noticed he was carrying a gun, that's all.

I've got a box full of old comics from the 70s and 80s, and when I feel nostalgic, I look at them.

Pretty much all of this. I haven't read or picked up a comic book since I was a kid and used to read Iron Man and X-men and some of the Batman books quite a bit in the late 80s and early 90s. Since then comics to me have become sort of a waste. The issues used to be 15-20 pgs of action and story and now you get 7-8 pages and a bunch of advertising and miniscule story telling. I tried reading the new Wonder Woman and Supergirl recently, but to me it's not the costumes being an issue as much as the new storytelling and direction is downright terrible.

I think Cap uses a gun in the new Marvel movie because that was the time period it was set in and that was the "origin" of Captain American and since he started off as a soldier in the war it sort of made sense. In the Avengers he does not use any weapons besides his shield.

[Centurion]

I feel like I ought to apologize, humbly and sincerely, to Killorson for saying, "Are you nuts?" What I should have said was, "Excuse me sir, but I think you're overstating your case just a tad."

It's one thing to get angry at comic books for not being sexy, but quite another to imagine some vast left-wing conspiracy aimed at men in general. It may SEEM that way sometimes, but it's not.

But the point, while a harmless fantasy every so often might not hurt anything, women are more than just sex objects. I used to buy a Wonder Woman every now and then, although I wasn't a serious collector. I have to admit that sometimes I get irritated by these porn stories that portray her as some little wiimp with no noticeable powers! You have to wonder if the creators at DC comics feel the same way. They can't do anything about our erotic fantasies. That's not an option. But they can try to distinguish between the porn superheroines and their serious characters. Just something to think about.

[The UG]

I'd be the first to admit I'm out of touch. I haven't bought a comic book in 20 years. I was thinking of the first Batman movie with Michael Keaton, where he wore body armor. If Batman had to get bulked up like that, how can we imagine Batgirl in tights and high heels anymore?

I haven't even been in a comic book store since I heard that Marvel had "killed off" Captain America. When the new movie came out, I noticed he was carrying a gun, that's all.

I've got a box full of old comics from the 70s and 80s, and when I feel nostalgic, I look at them.

Ah, I understand.

I don't think Bats were as armored up in the comics as he was in the 1989 movie. Some artists and writers state he wears kevlar or some other bulletproof material, but he's still not like in the movies.

Funny you should mention Batgirl...I think they brought the Barbara Gordan version back in the recent New 52 reboot. I haven't picked up her title...money's tight and most of it is going on the awesome Green Lantern, Action Comics, and JLA(although SHAZAM instead of Captain Marvel is groan inducing).

The Cap movie is one of those things where Marvel distills elements of their original 616 continuity with their "Ultimate" continuity in the film(hence the Avengers line-up having elements of Ultimates and the original 616 Avengers). The Ultimate Cap carries a gun...and when Cap died, Bucky as Captain America(in 616) also carried a gun. Now Cap is back, although knee-deep in getting his Avenger-butt curb-stomped by the Phoenix Five.

[The UG]

We could make movies and comic books featuring sexy females top sellers too, if only American men weren't so scared of the female body and ashamed of their natural desires. I have no problem buying tickets to Sucker Punch, purchasing sexy comic books or watching cheerleaders on TV while others are around. I wish the majority of men also did this.

Don't get me started on Sucker Punch.

Where was the support, fanboys?

That movie rocked!!!!!!!!!!!

I saw it four times in the theatre, and I have a poster of Babydoll in my room. I wanted some damn action figures! Talk about a film that actually played to our audience with fanservice galore, and its like guys were ashamed of it. I remember gloating that now males had a film to drag their female partners to(an inverse of the Twilight phenomenon).

And yet...no support for Synder and Sucker Punch. It boggles the mind, man.

[joser590]

It boggles your mind???

That movie was horrible!!! Sure it looked nice, but the story was stupid and the girls were never in any real peril if I remember correctly.

[The UG]

It boggles your mind???

That movie was horrible!!! Sure it looked nice, but the story was stupid and the girls were never in any real peril if I remember correctly.

*Sigh*

If I could get a dime for everytime I've heard that. But at the same time, everyone has to have their own opinion, so .

I wrote a review of it on my http://fromthebackofadustyvideobox.blog ... ucker.html.

Imo, the story was spectacular, and the girls WERE in real peril, just not in the fantasy reality.

[tallyho]

(You had a thread on this UG, and I won't re-iterate what I said there but bottom line, if it had been up to standard of 1st two fantasy sequences throughout it would have been good but it wasn't, and it wasn't.)
***Edit: UG, The above reads back as quite blunt - it wasnt meant that way, just meant your thread had failed to resolve the 'is it good debate' so it wasn't going to get anywhere here without leaving the topic behind


Back to topic-
It's not just US guys who are intimidated buying heroine comics. Where I grew up it would be taken as effeminate, you just didnt see them on the shelves. Don't think I even saw a WW until I was 16. Not a bad age to discover her.

[Centurion]

As for "Sucker Punch", one look at the DVD cover was enough to turn me off completely. Black costumes? Schoolgirl outfits and machine guns? YUCK! I pass.