Why? Why do you ask to trade?

[JasonC]

I am pretty fed up with people contacting me and asking to trade videos. Seriously....Why? are you so damn cheap that you would rather kill a producer than spend a dollar to get off? Seriously what is it with you people? This group are the most vocal about wanting perfection...wanting their way...and they would gladly kill that producer to get what they want.
Well I wont!
I spend good money buying bondage/ sleepy/ superheroine videos.
I take pride in saying I bought my own movies and am supporting the people who work so hard to give me what I want. I know they are not perfect but lack of perfection is not an excuse to steal.
So Poupa and others like him please stop contacting me looking for free traded videos. I am willing to hand over my login and password to an Admin RIGHT NOW so they can see the private message for themselves. I do not appreciate being contacted to be asked to share videos. Mighty Hypnotic, Valik, Tomiko, Velvets, and Evangeline work very hard to provide the movies I watch. I don't need to give them to you just because you are too cheap to buy your porn!

[admin]

Send me a PM with the info.

[joser590]

I'll be sending you some PM's as well Admin. It makes me sick too.

[huphiziah]

Your rite JasonC it is a deuch bag thing to do I guess.

I stay pretty low key I only deal with one producer truthfully and that's MH. I get what I pay for every time, and his work is of the highest quality; I mean he never disappoints.

But I agree if you have a fetish and you have people willing to get into that field to see your fetish satisfied you should pay them for it and Not piggyback of others.

[zepolmas]

You could just say "no."

[HeroineFanboy]

Goodness, I hope I don't get banned for considering the other side's POV, but here goes . . .

First, I have never traded with anyone before. I always purchase my videos from a producer or pass if I'm unsure about the product. But how is someone wanting to trade a video he's purchased for one purchased by someone else any different than trading, say, baseball cards, or videogames? I would think once someone purchases something, it's his, and he has a legal right to that property to do with as he pleases, whether that's trading with someone else or even giving it away for free.

Then again, I can also see the POV of the producers. For those into gaming, isn't this what the whole used games controversy is currently about? There is a legal right for retailers like Gamestop to sell used videogames traded in by customers and games publishers are lashing out by intentionally removing game content and releasing it via codes as DLC.

I would certainly hope producers of the heroine peril genre don't take a similar approach and I personally would like to see them get their money, but I also don't see how it's fair to ban people for exercising their legal rights to their own property.

Again, I really hope I'm not personally attacked for my suggestions and more to the point, I hope I'm not banned. I'm just trying to take a neutral perspective to the issue and I'd be remiss to see members of this board banned over this issue when other members like the poster of this thread could simply say "no" when asked to trade.

[huphiziah]

Damn good argument" HeroineFanboy"!
Your point is well received!

[scwank]

But how is someone wanting to trade a video he's purchased for one purchased by someone else any different than trading, say, baseball cards, or videogames?

Part of it may come down to whether you're trading DVDs or video files. If the latter, then the trader isn't deprived of his copy, like he is when he trades a DVD (unless you also delete your copy when you "trade" with someone).

[Rye]

But how is someone wanting to trade a video he's purchased for one purchased by someone else any different than trading, say, baseball cards, or videogames?

Heroinefanboy I hear what you are saying...
This particular setting isn't why most producers frown on this sort of thing... Lemme explain and give you some food for thought

1. You will generally never get proof that the person you are trading with actually bought the product and it wasn't an illegal copy you are getting in return.

2. Swank nailed a big piece which is you aren't actually trading if you still have a copy of the material. You are redistributing.. which technically isn't legal.

3. The community of people who take our material and redistribute it as an illegal download to thousands of other people get a lot of their material from trading. Some only get their material from trading, and again... you genreally don't know if you are giving a new release to someone who is going to do this.

4. This year alone I've sent over 300 DMCA complaints, countless emails, and dozens of hours checking into tips from customers/friends on illegal distributions of content... This is time I could have been spending making content.

5. We are not Hollywood so if 500 regular customers got a new release in a trade instead of buying it, its going to hurt.

Again I doubt most producers would care if Ralph bought movie X and traded it to Jim who bought movie Z, but it's just not that simple when dealing over the internet. You aren't face to face with a physical product..

I would think once someone purchases something, it's his, and he has a legal right to that property to do with as he pleases, whether that's trading with someone else or even giving it away for free.

Digital media isn't a baseball card I'm not a legal expert BUT... when you purchase digital media, software, movies etc.. you are not buying the right to do as you please. This is exactly why software products have licenses which are only valid for the person who bought it.

Another example is ordering a PPV event - If Ralph orders the UFC from his home it costs say 44 bucks. Now the bar down the street orders the UFC event but guess what... That bar is charged by their seat count and could end up paying thousands for it depending on how big their establishment is.

Hope this info helps 8)

[Ninja J.]

The issue with trading is that two producers are losing out on one costumer each. I'm not buying a product I traded for and the person I traded with is not gonna buy the episode from a producer I traded to him. I get why people do it, but it's bad for business which is why producers hate it.

Plus, this isn't the music industry. It's superheroine peril. I think of each purchase as a donation to your favorite superheroine website. The more money they have, the better chance they'll have to make more vids, take more requests, get hotter models, STAY IN BUSINESS etc. etc. Believe me I understand trading and completely agree with being able to do whatever you want with what you have already purchased, it's your property afterall. But heroine peril producers aren't multimillion dollar companies. Some need all the money they can get just to stay in business and trading hurts them and hurts the entire genre as a result.

[HeroineFanboy]

Thanks everyone for sharing different perspectives. Just to clarify, I'm in agreement with the majority that favors paying over trading. I was only trying to consider the other side's perspective because I can't imagine someone trading videos is doing so maliciously and I thought banning such individuals for what may simply be a misunderstanding of the damage their actions cause producers was a rather harsh punishment. I guess I'm just a softie.

[Rye]

I can't imagine someone trading videos is doing so maliciously.

Sadly some do... There are several people I have tracked over the years that do it with malice. People that even post in the producers thread and pretend to be paying for things. As to why i'm not sure...but this is a big part of why trading can be really bad for us producer types. You just don't know who your giving it to..

Of course not everyone who has traded a movie does this, but it only takes one to create a massive headache for us. The FBI has cracked down on some sharing sites but there are still places they can go.

[Masmune]

I don't think there's anything ethically wrong with trading per se, but to me, it's more about supporting the content that you value. If no one buys these videos, new ones won't get made.

[getoffthshed12000]

I've seen these kind of topics spiral out of control quickly on other boards, so I'm going to throw my two cents in and dive back into the shadows.

There's no way around it: distributing repoducted copies is stealing. The only way trading can be justified is as mentioned in above posts; an ORIGINAL is traded for an ORIGINAL. To continue with the baseball card example, if I give you my Ken Griffey, Jr. rookie card for your Sammy Sosa rookie card, that's perfectly acceptable. If I take it to Kinko's and make photocopies, that's not trading. With a video (especially a digital format), giving a copy to someone while keeping a copy for yourself is not trading. Your purchase of that video gives you the right to that copy you downloaded, not the right to reproduce copyrighted content. It's why movies have that FBI warning at the beginning. I've heard arguments about archaic copyright laws, that videos are too expensive, etc. Blah, blah, blah. It's just excuses people make to help themselves feel better about pirating (although some people are proud of the fact they're pirates). It's no different than walking into 7-Eleven and walking out with a candy bar without paying for it.

On the other hand, one inaccurate claim producers make in these situations is that every pirated copy is a lost sale. That's not always the case. Just because someone obtained your video somewhere (via a torrent, trade, or some other means) for free doesn't mean they were going to pay for it.

The one time I can kind of see it justified is if the product is not longer available from the producer. If they still wanted to make money from that video, then they wouldn't have made it unavailable for purchase.

The fact is there will always be people trying to get something for nothing. The sad part is that it affects us paying customers. It's why computer games have ridiculous anti-piracy measures that usually end up punishing legitimate users. But in a fetish community, it can be really devastating. It can cause producers to quit making content, or drive up prices, and that hurts everyone, which will trickle down to include the pirates.

So support our producers, and buy something!

[Ultradude31]

i got the same PMs but of course I ignored

[hbk7250]

I'm totally supportive of Rye on this one! Right now he's working on a Superior Girl movie which promises to be the best Superheroine movie since... well... EVER!!!

I remember when he was asked, "is there going to be a sequel?", to which he replied, "it depends on how this one does".

Think about that statement for a moment, how well do you think it's going to do if one person buys it and trades it with 50 other people? (causing Rye to loose 50 paying customers)...

NOT VERY WELL!!!
HENCE NO MONEY!!!
HENCE NO SEQUEL!!!
AND THAT WOULD SUCK BIG TIME!!!

I can't wait for it to come out!!!
I can't wait to BUY it!!!
And I hope EVERYONE BUYS it!!!

For crying out loud I wish I had the money to buy it ten times or I could donate to help to get the next one made!

Well that's me anyway and here's hoping for a SuperiorGirl II.

Sincerely,
Ben.

[RedMountain]

What makes matters worse for those "traders" is that a lot of the sites that they go and re-distribute the content on are full of viruses, or the files are full of viruses. I had a friend in college who used to frequent those sites where videos and pic sets were "re-distributed" and it basically destroyed his computer after a few days of downloading.

[Camvoy]

Perhaps it's me being biased, but I like when people actually buy this stuff.

[lycan69]

One thing to keep in mind... a trade or a pirated copy does not necessarily equate to a lost sale.

While in many cases it may, this should never be automatically assumed.

Example:

- Person A trades for a video. He/she may be very poor and has only bought 2 videos in the last year. This person would have never bought the video straight up for full price. He/she had the option for a trade and was willing to do so. (This could potentially lead to more sales as person A, after watching the traded vid, enjoys the producer and buys additional movies in the future)

- Person B pirated the video. He/she is a pirate and would have never bought the video for any price. Not a lost sale.


Everyone should also be aware that any digital media will eventually get leaked onto the internet. It is not a matter of 'if' but 'when'. Some producers combat this by churning out vid after vid, others focus more on the service and keeping their fanbase happy/loyal.

[HeroineFanboy]

I will say I can empathize with those traders in the above example who might do it out of poverty. I'm certainly among their numbers in terms of how much money I have available - i.e. I ain't rich. As a result, whenever I purchase a video, I must be VERY selective. Unfortunately in this genre, I personally think videos are grossly overpriced AND there is very little preview content available.

Consider this - it will cost $8 at most theaters to see The Avengers this weekend, maybe less if its an earlier showing. Not only are the productions values outstanding in every way, but we KNOW they are outstanding because there are MULTIPLE trailers, featurettes, still photos, interviews, etc. Obviously the multi-million dollar budget of a movie like The Avengers makes it possible to produce such widely available preview content, but I think there is a middle ground between a 10 second preview of some random scene on a Clips4Sale website and what's available for a Hollywood blockbuster. Add to it that many of the videos in the superheroine peril genre rack up to $25 or more per video. I personally think the right price-point for this content is $10 a video, which is still higher than seeing a Hollywood blockbuster.

For those fans who trade videos because they are cheap bastards - shame on them. But for those fans who are compelled to trade videos out of ignorance or poverty, I think the best way for producers to combat this effect on their market is to offer more value for the product and to provide as much preview content as possible so that fans can make a more discriminating decision in what they are actually paying for.

OK, end rant.

[rb9]

I agree on the preview part - though it can be difficult to give good previews. A lot of sites give a little description of fetish, and then you can assess production value after.

Now, producers are in a tough boat as far as pricing. Models generally cost a few hundred for a decent-length shoot. That means that shooting a video can cost at least several hundred, more if you need to rent space, purchase costumes - plus count the time of the producer in shooting, booking, editing, and posting. Unless it's one of those cheap videos where someone just hits "play" on a camera and doesn't edit (like a lot of C4S vids), the producer will easily rack up a few hundred's worth in time.

Depending on the video people may or may not buy it. It's hard to predict how these things sell. I've heard of people in the business who do pretty well. For someone in the heroine fetish it's hard to say. Some bad producers knock up prices, but for well-produced videos the prices may be warranted. Plus if nobody buys a video it can be tough. Sometimes people will request stuff but not bite when it's actually made, and that can get really annoying. I can imagine what it's like to be a producer and get a request, only to have people whine that "you didn't do it right" or they aren't satisfied.

On topic, I can sympathize with the video sharing. However I think you are correct that there is very little preview content. I think most people who will end up supporting a video will do it... and pirates are generally not the people who would pay in the first place.

[joser590]

:shock:
I can't believe a few of you are sympathizing and trying to intelligently argue video trading!

It's wrong! Simple as that!

Who gives a shit if somone in poverty is trying to get one of these videos! If he's in poverty, he's got much bigger things to worry about than getting off. And if he reallly wants a video, than just save up for it.

A traded video takes money away from said producer. No if's, and's, but's about it.

The more you fuckers trade, the more you are killing the business.

[HeroineFanboy]

@rb9 - All I know is that I am one of those financially restricted fans who must be very selective about what he purchases. I don't trade, but I will say that there are MANY videos I've passed on because for $25, I wasn't willing to take the risk that it didn't satisfy my tastes. Had producers marked their videos at $10 or thereabouts, I guarantee they would have made around 20 sales off of me alone which they lost because they priced themselves too high.

Now I think there MUST be other fans out there like me and rather than selling a video for $25 to 10 people at a gain of $250, for example (using simple numbers for demonstrative purposes), wouldn't they it be more profitable for them to sell a video for $10 to 30 people at a gain of $300? I mean I seriously think they would sell 3x the videos if my buyings habits are any indication and there are others out there like me.

[korda]

Another one here who wishes to see good previews. I only buy movies from producers that provide a decent preview. Clips4sale's previews are a bad joke. Some producers provide good descriptions about the content in their movies, but, unfortunately without a trailer that allow me to have idea about the acting and how my favorite fetishes and peril situations are being handled, I prefer to spend where I'll have less doubts about what I'm buying. E.g., Dawnstar, I was checking Shakeshift's store and his latest movie - The Cross-Universe Conspiracy - caught my attention, but without a trailer, it won't be on top of my shopping list.

[JasonC]

I'm hearing a lot of defense from people but they all cover their asses by saying "its not me but....." I would like to hear from someone who has in the past pirated videos and their defense.
I am not rich! not remotely close. And yet when I find a movie that is teasing enough I will buy.

Also...

Without mentioning names......
I have contacted producers and privately asked if there is a way to offer pay-pal or money order for a reduced price.
Many who have their own servers have done so.
One producer put it up on rapidshare and then deleted the link after i downloaded it.


the logic that bringing the cost down to $10 would make more sales is faulty because so many producers hawk on C4S.
c4s takes some 50% so a producer selling at $10 actually makes $5 when it takes hundreds to make how fast can you get back in the black with $5

All of the defenses so far given are faulty and selfish!
I have to wait and save for my movie.
I have to put aside to get what i want
I have to sacrifice to get my desires.

So should everyone else.

there is no excuse.

And If you think I am angry its because I am!
Its hit too close to home for me.

I had a favorite sleepy model named "Mandy" also known as Jamie daniels.
She made wonderful sleepy films and then people started sharing her movies and she stopped making them! that was a serious loss to me.
and if not for those pirates she would still be here today.

I see it as contributing to the production house that makes my favorite films to make sure they stick around.

I stand by my choice to out Poupa.
he should be ashamed!

[HeroineFanboy]

There's no need to allege accusations such as "faulty" or "selfish." I don't like taking extreme views on issues on either side. I think it's more productive to take a neutral middle-view and that's exactly what I've been trying to express in my posts.

Do I think trading is wrong? Yes. Do I trade? No. Can I empathize with those who do trade for economic reasons? Yes.

As for the price of a video. I think there are other distribution models out there producers could use where they wouldn't have to mark-up their videos so high. But even if we assume they have no choice but to charge $25 or more for a video, then I certainly think buyers are entitled to as much disclosure about the content of the video as possible so we can make an informed decision in how we spend our money.

[RedMountain]

Another one here who wishes to see good previews. I only buy movies from producers that provide a decent preview. Clips4sale's previews are a bad joke. Some producers provide good descriptions about the content in their movies, but, unfortunately without a trailer that allow me to have idea about the acting and how my favorite fetishes and peril situations are being handled, I prefer to spend where I'll have less doubts about what I'm buying. E.g., Dawnstar, I was checking Shakeshift's store and his latest movie - The Cross-Universe Conspiracy - caught my attention, but without a trailer, it won't be on top of my shopping list.

This is one of the main reasons I stick with sites like Next Global Crisis, UltraHeroix, Heroineperil.com, Punished Heroines, etc., because they often have good previews and their vids are reasonably priced with good production values. Honestly 95% of the stuff on Clips4sale turns out to be crap with crap acting and crap plotting and ropework that looks like a ten year old tied up the girl. I've also found the descriptions, even when they are lengthy, are mostly BS.

[Nightx1221]

People have constantly came for me to trade. I decline all the time. Thing is I agree with the points above. I pay my hard earned money and like to build a collection. I do not like to just give it to someone. I mean there are many ways for you to get the videos if you pay for them. Just in my eyes, I want to keep the ones I buy and support what I like, no matter the producer.

[jack50]

didn't have time to read all of the posts....but if you look at the music industry crash and movie theaters closing up brcause of free downloads, i think we should avoid trading at all costs. looking at how the videos have steadily increased in quality over the years is a good indicator that mh is dropping some serious coin on production and editing. taking money out of his pocket will not icrease the volume or quality of movies. and doing it out of his forum is in bad taste.. not trying to accumulate enemies here, but we are all mature enough to know why this is wrong.

[poupa]

Hello everybody,

I just read that post where it seems that I am the main Character.

First I apologize to all user that have been shocked by my PM and all producers posting on this forum and who are doing really entertaining work.

It was actually the first time I requested for trade I am a regulary customer of lot of superheroine producers. that was indeed a money matters after some purchasing which wasn't satisfying at all.

Thank you to people who understood my mistake and also to all producers; I certainly didn't mean to take money away from the producer even if I agree that it was a selfish behaviour.

Thank you to the Administrator to have activated my account again and let me partcipate on the best forum on superheroine fo the web.

[rayman]

I have never traded but I do reply when I get a pm asking me if I would consider a trade.

I do not think trading is a good thing and the main reason I give is of course the damage it can do to a producers budget.

However being such a fan of superheroine genre I do think that trading of deleted or lost/unavailble material might be a different story.

For example I had a few movies from a company I think was called Club Dead, over several years nad a few pc's I lost my content, I spoke to on eof the guys at the website trying to buy new copies but was told the movies I wanted were stpored on really old media and it would just be too time consuming anf expensive for me to get them again.

Would it be such a bad thing for me trade a simialr no longer available clip for the clips I lost?

There is a movie that used to be talked about on the Kryptonite Cafe called Amazonia the thunder from downunder..I wante dthsi movie but never managed to see it or find it anywhere, surely a trade would be the logical answer?

Just musing please don't shoot me

LT

[Heroine Addict]

Would it be such a bad thing for me trade a simialr no longer available clip for the clips I lost?

There is a movie that used to be talked about on the Kryptonite Cafe called Amazonia the thunder from downunder..I wante dthsi movie but never managed to see it or find it anywhere, surely a trade would be the logical answer?

Just musing please don't shoot me

LT

I guess it all depends on why the Amazonia clip is now unavailable. It could be that the producer or model doesn't want the clip to remain in circulation, legal or otherwise.

[Shakeshift]

It's a strange coincidence that the topic of video trading suddenly reappears on this forum board as soon as the dates for the release of Christina Carter's WONDER WOMAN - XXX finally get announced, with the first part of her six-part mega-saga going up in less than a week. The video (in total) will cost $90 if you want to see the whole story. I certainly hope everybody will support Christina's project and show the $$$ love. Quality videos take time and money.

[it2007]

That's all speculation. People want stuff for free regardless of what movie's coming out. It doesn't really change anything, and bringing that up is just a veiled attempt at promoting that movie.

[rayman]

Would it be such a bad thing for me trade a simialr no longer available clip for the clips I lost?

There is a movie that used to be talked about on the Kryptonite Cafe called Amazonia the thunder from downunder..I wante dthsi movie but never managed to see it or find it anywhere, surely a trade would be the logical answer?

Just musing please don't shoot me

LT

I guess it all depends on why the Amazonia clip is now unavailable. It could be that the producer or model doesn't want the clip to remain in circulation, legal or otherwise.

That is a very good point, I never considered the model, I know it starred Lisa Marie who played Mastergirl in the Fightbabe movie Analyser v Mastergirl.

Have to say it is several months since I myself have bene asked about trading, as I said I always decline.

Cheers
LT

[DrObiCaffi]

Preiviews, sample pics, descriptions and reviews help me decide what to buy.

[lerxstcat]

I see both sides here, and I would suggest that starting a war or a pogrom against people because they looked to trade could be a Pyhrric victory at best, or a disastrous war of attrition at worst.

Say MH bans people for simply asking to trade. Those people go to DC and Marvel and point out that his characters are thinly-veiled rehashes of their characters in many cases. Even if they can't get him on copyrights, they make sure his CC processors know he makes "questionable" content, and his life is more complicated.

Seems counterproductive to me, since ALL of us are considered part of a "fringe" group by society at large. Creating more negative attention by infighting is only going to hurt everyone as some lash out for being banned. You could kill the whole goose going after one stolen egg.

If you don't want to trade, don't trade. Don't act like some kind of Puritan considering the context that we are all here because we jack it to videos of superheroine peril and domination. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but I'm just saying...

[Donnnnnn]

Can people stop asking for trades! I 100% will not trade video for video, you are just robbing the producers of their money to make more videos.

[tallyho]

As a forum we do not advocate such trades but think on this

You get hold of a video you like
You trade it
OTHERS trade it
The producers that made it lose income
The producers that made it go bust/stop producing
No one makes the films you like anymore.
You no longer have the films you like anymore
You have nothing.

So whilst getting the films you like for 'free' in the short term costs you nothing, in the long term it costs you EVERYTHING.

Be a good human being.
Support the hard work and creativity of the artists and models involved.
As a poacher turned gamekeeper I know of what I speak.
Be the change you wish to see in the world, where hard work , innovation and endeavour are justly rewarded.
Support creativity.
Buy the vids you want to see.

[GeekyPornCritic]

I understand the temptation to trade videos. SHIP can be very expensive. I own every SHIP movie by Primal Fetish, and I am sure it cost me thousands. $29.99 to $49.99 can add up fast for over 200 films.

I think one solution is to create membership sites instead of using Clips4sale. Not every studio can do it. I think studios with a variety of fetish such as Kendra James, Primal Fetish, Cory Chase, and a few more may be able to benefit more from a membership site. I think Kendra James has a membership, but I am not sure if she offers full videos or parts. Hopefully she offers full videos.

[MetaDude2]

I understand the temptation to trade videos. SHIP can be very expensive. I own every SHIP movie by Primal Fetish, and I am sure it cost me thousands. $29.99 to $49.99 can add up fast for over 200 films.

I think one solution is to create membership sites instead of using Clips4sale. Not every studio can do it. I think studios with a variety of fetish such as Kendra James, Primal Fetish, Cory Chase, and a few more may be able to benefit more from a membership site. I think Kendra James has a membership, but I am not sure if she offers full videos or parts. Hopefully she offers full videos.

A little off topic, but do you know of any SHIP vids that are like Broken Heroines? Like on that level?